Will Pelosi’s second attempt at a bailout include ACORN? Update: Dow loses 777 points, more than on 9/11; Update: $1.1 trillion in market value lost
posted at 4:18 pm on September 29, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Why not? She tried a bipartisan bill and got nothing for it. What’s stopping her from turning it into a Christmas tree for the left and passing it on a strict party-line vote? Bush will sign it regardless and Senate Republicans will be under tremendous pressure to decline a filibuster with the Dow down 600 points today and god knows where tomorrow. This is the flaw in the “if the majority thinks it’s so important, let them pass it” approach: They will pass it, on their terms, and they’ll point to Republicans like Gingrich and Paul Ryan and the Journal — and Paulson and Bernanke, of course — who’ve acknowledged this is an emergency to take credit for rescuing the economy. All they have to do is wait a few days until the public’s good and terrified and the polls on the bailout start to reverse. They’re reversing already.
A number of Republican House members and staff, along with others who are plugged in, are telling me that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats will come back with a new bill that includes all the left-wing stuff that was scrubbed from the bill that was defeated today in the House.
As this scenario goes, the House Democrats need 218 votes, and they have to pick up a number of black and Hispanic House members who jumped ship because the Wall Street provisions, in their view, were too benign. So things like the bankruptcy judges setting mortgage terms and rates, the ACORN slush-fund spending, the union proxy for corporate boards, stricter limits on executive compensation, and much larger equity ownership of selling banks through warrants will all find itself back in the new bill. Of course, this scenario will lose more Republican votes. But insiders tell me President Bush will take Secretary Paulson’s advice and sign that kind of legislation.
House Republicans weren’t willing to swallow a bitter pill today so they’ll swallow a more bitter pill later this week. And guess what? They’ll still get killed at the polls in November. Bill Kristol thinks McCain’s only chance now is to stop campaigning (again) and come back to D.C. to try to drive through a compromise. If he succeeds, it’ll prove his leadership and calm the markets. I don’t see how he’s supposed to pull that off, though, when the entire Democratic leadership will be primed to whine about how he’s only making things worse by being there, is ruining delicate negotiations, etc. If Kristol’s serious about solving the crisis and willing to sacrifice electoral gain to do so, there’s an easy compromise solution: Have McCain and Obama do some sort of joint appearance, maybe a presser, urging support for a bailout. That’ll swing public opinion sufficiently to remove the political incentives to voting no and give Pelosi the 10 votes she needs to pass it now. There’s no gain for McCain at the polls in doing so, admittedly, but he’s the guy who preaches “country first.” Here’s his chance.
Update: This is day one.
The Dow closed the day down 777.68 points, or 6.89 percent, beating its previous record for an intraday drop of 721.56 points, set during the first trading day after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. Still, in percentage terms, the decline remained well below the more than 20 percent drops seen on Black Monday of October 1987 and the Depression.
“This is panic, and fear is running amok,” one trader told CNBC. “We are in a classic financial meltdown, and it’s panic-based. We’re seeing panic selling.”
Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.
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Ya know, if these stocks were allowed to be “shorted into the ground” then maybe there would have been a bottom set by folks covering their shorts that would have been nowhere near this low.
shuzilla on September 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM
And Pelosi with her speech wasn’t?
Maxx on September 29, 2008 at 5:35 PM
In the meantime, oil went down $10/barrel and the dollar saw it’s biggest gain in 15 years. Hurray for Wall Street!
Dagnar on September 29, 2008 at 5:35 PM
You have no choice, son.
ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:35 PM
What a great day! Hey, since we’re all having fun, I’m assuming SNL will do a “Pelosi the buffoon” piece on her and Reid cramming in earmarks and ACORN slush funds at this time of economic crisis. SNL will do that, right? Ahh, classic.
marklmail on September 29, 2008 at 5:36 PM
I’ve done that, and written nearly those very words myself. This time I reacted differently, because I learned that large segments of our elected gov’t was manipulating the economy for social engineering, and would sacrifice our financial security, risk soaring inflation or disastrous deflation, and sacrifice our stable currency to achieve it’s socialist ends.
Didn’t have the heart today to dig in and buy. Felt like a gamble to me today instead of an investment in the future.
JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 5:36 PM
My husband and I are seriously considering moving to Costa Rica and opening a bar on the beach.
Gonna buy Rosetta Stone this week.
tru2tx on September 29, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Here was my Bailout Plan From the VERY first night I heard it mentioned.. And I’m NOT a Major economist.. OR an Investor..
——————–
Reduce the Bailout!, printing more money will make our dollar weaker, driving the Oil futures higher, thus not only making US pay for the $700 Billion but also making us pay for inflated Oil prices and everything that goes along with that.. higher gas prices, higher food prices, everything you buy at the stores, everything in our economy is tied to Oil.. and Oil is tied to the strength of the US Dollar.
So, what we need to do, Kill or extremely limit the bail out at least cut it into or 1/3 or 1/4 of the size it is now.. 175-250 Billion maybe.. let the markets work
Then, We need to Totally Ramp UP ALL Oil(Including ANWR, and all the natural gas),Oil shale, Clean Coal, and More New Nuclear Power plants Here in the United States, More Refineries, more wind, solar, new technologies, conservation ALL OF IT.. the ALL OF THE ABOVE PLAN.
Lower Corporate Tax dramatically and drastically(that will increase investment from home and abroad, create new business and create more jobs)
Lower the Capital Gains Tax again that will increase investments and create more revenues..
Increasing the Energy sector and new development will create Lots of new jobs, and new investment, people will start to invest in raw materials(because things need to be built), this would be be a huge boom industry and would get us off of foreign energy and would help our markets all at the same time..
Also, the RAW materials like STEEL used for the New Oil Rigs, and New Nuclear Power plants, and Wind Turbines could be a way to reopen the Steel Mills( or more could be built/upgraded) across the Midwest that have recently shut down.. (thus more jobs)
things need to be built, Oil Rigs for off and onshore(US Steel, US Mining), Nuclear Power Plants(US Steel, US Mining), Wind Turbines(US Steel, US Mining) US Engineering..
AND ALSO CUT GOVERNMENT WASTEFUL SPENDING!!!
How to stop if from happening again, what to do now?
Get rid, of the NINJA(No Income No Job No Asset) Loans, That’s not compassionate it’s irresponsible, and predatory. (It should be a crime)
Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:37 PM
You tell me to ignore your post and then tell me to look beyond my nose. You want to pass a bill that leads to socialism and then complain that not passing it will move us more to the left.
Did you read (i.e. look beyond your nose) the article at the link I gave? If you put your cursor on the colored print and double-click … .
davidk on September 29, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Add Steve Forbes to Michelle’s “chicken little” list, as per Ace.
phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Sorry, I haven’t given up on this country yet.
Or, I guess more accurately, the American people.
Although it’s diminishing quickly. My faith that is.
And this won’t be limited to us either. Whatever problems we have will be deeper around the globe.
But, hey, how about those Redskins?
SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Pretty place. Pretty much socialist. Expensive.
JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 5:40 PM
I have more faith in the American people than this. I don’t see how someone who is affected by this will have to live the rest of their life in destitution. As bad a setback as it might be, they will rise to to the challenge and rebuild, or they will
deal with it however they can and still have meaningful lives. I think most people are made of more than their bank accounts, stock portfolios or even whether they own a house or have to rent.
In any case, if you want the Government to ensure that they do not have to deal with adversity then we might as well go for full fledged nanny state.
neuquenguy on September 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Try Belize. They already speak English. You must not live in South Texas. Otherwise you’d already know Spanish thanks to simple demographics.
SailorDave on September 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM
I said ignore my post if you’re not one of those who I criticized for saying the bill isn’t needed.
Second, this bill by itself – in my opinion – will not lead us to socialism. Lordy, we have $70-80 trillion in unfunded obligations to SS and Medicare. If you’re worried about statism then this bill is meaningless compared to the other actions/debts we have.
But a major economic downturn most certainly will.
Passing this bill may – who knows? – prevent that.
SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, and I have a college degree in 18th c. Lit., BUT I smell something in getting this bill passed so fast. I mean if all those bills that were suppose to protect us from terrorist took so long then why not wait on this one?
I agree with those that are suggesting the internal polling numbers in the Congressional races were killer to those Dems that might have voted for this bill. They have said more folks called in over this bill than amnesty and we nearly melted the lines over amnesty. If Meme got wind of this and the fact that the public hated this bill then is it a leap to think that THEY, the Dems, might want this thing killed to save Congressional seats and to save MANCHILD because he has tied himself to this hook line and sinker? It is something to ponder.
This bill is dead. There will have to be a NEW bill created. In one sense the longer this goes on the more the Dems can use it as a tool to hammer McCain if he does not fight back and name names. And the credit markets do need some money. Rockmom seems to have that one figured out, and I hope folks in Washington have also figured it out. I think we do need this removed from the political arena in one sense. However, most people seemed to see the forrest for the trees.
Bush and Paulson need to go ASAP. I am absolutely fed up with those two. Paulson is a traitor and Bush is clueless on this bailout. If he knows something that we need to know he needs to cough it up. He needs to support Boehner and the House members too.
I think they are scared of placing pork in this bill because McCain just said earmarks were in the bill and he did not like that. He will challenge them on that and so I do not think they will put the original bill back on the floor or put pork back in the bill.
Does anyone think the Dems are cutting deals so they do not go to jail? Oh, and Trump was saying the key to some of this is due to the oil market. Oil was $98 per barrel and he said it was good for this bill not to pass because it will keep oil down and that alone would help the markets and money issues especially since the oil issue is really weakening things. Made sense to me.
freeus on September 29, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Probably good sport, until you see your neighbor, church friends, family friends go broke and live out their lives in destitution.
Oh fer Keerist…what, we will be grubbing for roots in the forest soon?
Watch out everyone, this is what next week will bring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKryr8bA2nw
Bishop on September 29, 2008 at 5:44 PM
Thanks..
DaveC on September 29, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Doesn’t matter. There’s enough nominal Republicans out there that will jump at the chance to lay this at the GOP’s feet.
They’ve been trained well.
spmat on September 29, 2008 at 5:45 PM
And they say this is going to cost over a trillion dollars for this bailout. So technically the losses on the market today were NOT more than the bailout. Many are saying $700 billion was just the beginning!
freeus on September 29, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Police, first responders, soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines, air-traffic controllers, parks and playgrounds keepers, Forest Service, Park Service, nukular scientists, Border Patrol, Highway Patrol, prison guards, USDA inspectors, TSA, school teachers, FDA, CIA and all other intelligence agencies,etc…hmmm, yes, let’s disenfranchise ‘em all. Right now. They are after all, second-class citizens.
trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Immediate solutions suggested by the real conservatives who voted against this bill, (via CNBC):
1. Raise the FDIC deposit insurance to $250,000.00 immediately(no vote needed).
2. Eliminate the Sarbanes-Oxley mark-to-market asset valuation rule (vote required).
3. Provide an insurance policy for banks in trouble (vote required).
Quick!!
Someone call Mitt Romney, Newt Gingerich, and Hugh Hewitt…. well.. that is after they start feeling better and get on medication for dyslexia.
Mcguyver on September 29, 2008 at 5:48 PM
$1.1 Trillion?
So, so sad. Cry me a river.
Sir Andrew on September 29, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Husband went there and he thought it was really inexpensive. Don’t know much about the socialist angle.
Nope – lived in North Texas – now in Oklahoma. Even if we stay in U.S. and move back to Texas (when it secedes) – gonna need to learn the language, no?
tru2tx on September 29, 2008 at 5:50 PM
I keep wondering if Allah is part of the astroturf army we keep reading about.
Buford Gooch on September 29, 2008 at 5:50 PM
All that said, with the Panic that Paulson put into the markets, something needs to be passed, but it doesn’t need to be really large to stabilize the markets IF they do it in conjunction with Corporate tax cuts And Capital gains tax cuts.
that would be the way to feed the market with healthy investment.
Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:52 PM
The loss today was a paper loss. The loss with the $700 billion is real, viable, and catastrophic.
Jdripper on September 29, 2008 at 5:57 PM
Costs about the same as rural America. And yeah, it’s socialist. Their currency is weak. Nice people, beautiful land. Lots of Americans retire there.
JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 5:57 PM
You’re right. Just the teachers and CIA, and give the military two votes each.
JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 5:59 PM
add State Dep’t employees, and foreign lobbyists.
JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Via Volokh:
Hey, she’s got allies here that will work to protect that narrative. Well done Nancy!
spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:00 PM
In other news today the gap between rich and poor narrowed considerably and the outlook is for that gap to continue to shrink at a rapid pace.
TheBigOldDog on September 29, 2008 at 6:01 PM
Nah…he just lives in New York City.
It’s the city, man. It erodes your soul to the point where your happiness becomes dependent on iPhones.
Thank God I’m a country boy.
Harpazo on September 29, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Thank you for the opportunity to share this quote I have been sitting on since I heard it:
New York City is a sewer containing all the depravities of human nature — a world apart from small towns and the countryside, where crime is scarcely heard of, breaches of order are rare, and society — if not refined — is rational, moral, and affectionate.
–Thomas Jefferson:
TheBigOldDog on September 29, 2008 at 6:08 PM
TheBigOldDog
Nice quote and very appropriate.
GarandFan on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM
I guess if no one show’s up on Wall Street tomorrow then it’s all over. But what does it mean if they do show up for work tomorrow?
Hog Wild on September 29, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Yikes, everyone is in panic mode. There’s something fishy about this bailout and the way it was crammed down our throats. Also, Pelosi and the Dems had the perfect opportunity to pass this without the Republicans in the House, and claim credit for saving everyone’s bacon. Which would just about guarantee them some re-election seats. The way our Congress is afraid to take credit for this is suspicious. Fishy, fishy, fishy-ness.
I don’t get it. We are not being told all the details. There is something seriously not right here.
baxtrice on September 29, 2008 at 6:23 PM
If you look up the words dumb, stupid,without substance and void of anything you will see a picture of Pelosi
thmcbb on September 29, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Bush and Paulson need to go ASAP.
Bush knows plenty of money men besides Paulson. In fact the Dallas based investor that bankrolled W.’s position in the Texas Rangers ballclub, is a big time bond investor, and he’s probably sh’n bricks right now.
phreshone on September 29, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Lose your ass today Allah Pundit?
Calm Before the Storm on September 29, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Congratulations to all of the economic idiots out there. Thank you so much!!!!
indythinker on September 29, 2008 at 6:25 PM
And to the ideologically pure. Congrats.
phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 6:27 PM
Bummer for anyone who sold stock today at the end of the day. And it was, like, right after they heard the equities market was tanking, too. LOL.
jaime on September 29, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Comparing the dollar loss of the stock market to potential bailout costs is highly misleading. By that measure the market was losing $450 Billion BEFORE the vote took place. Likewise, every day the market goes up, say 300 points, the market gains $350 Billion. As for the $700 Billion? Well, its basically lost forever when the government spends it.
JonPrichard on September 29, 2008 at 6:37 PM
it’s all funny money, it’ll rebound. eventually.
kirkill on September 29, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Umm, no. Stocks are not wealth. Nobody goes to work in the morning and produces stock. They are pieces of paper that represent real wealth. If stock prices tank, it’s a reflection that the prices had been higher than the value of the wealth they represent. The wealth was already gone.
viking999 on September 29, 2008 at 6:49 PM
The difference is that every American taxpayer is not taxed on the wealth lost today in the market, but every taxpayer will be taxed to fund the bailout. Kirkill above is right. The players who just stormed off the field have no choice but to return in one way or another.
unclesmrgol on September 29, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Are you serious? Obama suggested the same thing the first time, and McCain – in all his intelligence – held his own presser, and said it was his idea for the two of them to work together. While it wasn’t to jointly endorse an INVESTMENT in the Financial Markets, it was to work together on a compromise.
PresidenToor on September 29, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Maybe, just maybe, she did this to drag the whole affair out for a few more days. She throws out the meat, the 12 or so wavering Repubs chomp. If so, then the Repubs screwed up and the 93 Demos that opposed it get another shot at throwing some more of our money around. If the Repubs don’t bite, she still gets her sound-bite, the Demos get to go home and run against the Repubs that voted for “Wall St.”. If nothing else, the Demos know how to work the news cycle (not that it really takes that much work on their part).
Either way, pretty shrewd on Nan’s part. If only I could point to her counter-part on the Repub. side.
And no I’m not a troll, moby or any other low-life lib form.
rockhead on September 29, 2008 at 6:52 PM
If some of you idiots that are yelling about the sky falling and defending the democrats, you all know who I am looking at, go check out the 2 year chart of the Dow, everything is fine, the bubble burst and we are back down to reasonable levels.
tru2tx on September 29, 2008 at 5:37 PM
And why don’t you just wait till all the Republican get together and secede.
Cardiganfox on September 29, 2008 at 6:52 PM
The Republicans’ behavior on this is baffling. Why are they not making the origins of this crisis clear? They should have loudly declared two absolute preconditions for any bailout deal, right at the outset: (1) Barney Frank is removed from the Senate, or resigns his seat, and (2) absolutely no earmarks, riders, or giveaways to fraud operations like ACORN, which should have been named specifically. THEN you let the Democrats caterwaul and whine, while the public waits for them to explain why keeping the guy who personally engineered the subprime crisis in his cozy Senate seat is worth holding up relief, and you create an environment in which the media would have to begin explaining who Frank and ACORN are, and why the Dems are so determined to protect them.
To block the bailout bill and provide nothing but a personal complaint about Pelosi saying mean things is incomprehensibly stupid… did they expect the media to begin playing Pelosi’s toxic speech and running headlines about how this is all her fault? Why isn’t EVERY Republican move prefaced by a conference in which they think about how the media will spin their actions, and prepare accordingly?
Doctor Zero on September 29, 2008 at 6:54 PM
Yes, but that’s apples and oranges. But, hey, if it makes you feel better, whatever.
This site has gotten exceedingly dumpy.
More Palin!
VolMagic on September 29, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Should we call this Frank’s Freeze?
huckleberryfriend on September 29, 2008 at 6:56 PM
Every American would be taxed progressively to pay for the bailout. Not everyone would contribute equally. There might be some correlation between those paying the most for the bailout and those losing the most today.
dedalus on September 29, 2008 at 6:57 PM
I wonder this too.
artchick on September 29, 2008 at 6:58 PM
I certainly agree with you on that! That is why I have been backing McCain from the get-go.
Osambamabiden will not do anything about SS and Medi-whatever. And they will certainly have national healthcare.
But I do disagree that not passing this bill will cause an economic melt-down.
OT: Mac just called the perky one a “so-called expert” in a CBS news interview a while ago.
Smoke, I’m telling you, was coming out her ears.
davidk on September 29, 2008 at 7:01 PM
Also down to below where we began the decade.
I’ll give you that the P/E multiples are lower today than in 2000 and lower than 2 years ago. Unfortunately, this market won’t be trading off fundamentals in the near term, and even when it returns to fundamentals there are a lot of questions about earnings ahead.
dedalus on September 29, 2008 at 7:03 PM
Republicans didn’t cause this bill to fail. Democrats did!!!! They have the majority there. Play this as it is. They didn’t vote for it and caused it to fail. 66 Republicans voted for it out of 200 Republicans. Roughly 134 Republicans voted against it. 433 votes were cast out of 439 possible. 239 of which were democrats 139 of them voted for it which means 100 of them voted against it.
So who caused it to fail? DEMOCRATS did because they can’t even get their own party behind this BS.
theguardianii on September 29, 2008 at 7:03 PM
The 60 Democrat Congressmen/women who voted against the bill, I’m wondering what percentage of them correlate with a strong alliance to the Clintons. Now that would be great politics!
EyesOpen on September 29, 2008 at 7:07 PM
I can’t watch CBS news, it’s bad for my digestion. But could somebody email Allah/Ed to see if they could post video of this exchange?
funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 7:15 PM
Yep, I’ve been asking that ever since it’s started to become clear.
JustTruth101 on September 29, 2008 at 7:17 PM
Be vigilant . . . the crooked Democrats will sneak back to their hideout, change masks, build another Trojan horse, sneak in a new bill, then try to pass it and sneak out before anybody can identify them.
rplat on September 29, 2008 at 7:19 PM
Transcript.
davidk on September 29, 2008 at 7:23 PM
[quote]She tried a bipartisan bill and got nothing for it. What’s stopping her from turning it into a Christmas tree for the left and passing it on a strict party-line vote?[/quote]
Wow, did Team Pelosi write that? That is friggin retarded on so many levels.
David in ATL on September 29, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Gotcha Liberal Journalism, they don’t do it to Democrats.
Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 7:33 PM
I’m hitting the Senate and Congressional web sites and emailing the horse squeezes who are responsible for allowing this mess. FRank, Dodd and Schumer were among my targets. Dodd only takes CT emails (he is a US Senator) so I found some names in the white pages from CT. I told them all to resign immediately and get out of town and the USA as they were and are domestic terrorists who took money from Fannie & Freddie, turned a blind eye and have gutted millions of people’s retirement savings and investments into the billions of dollars. They really should be tried for treason.
wepeople on September 29, 2008 at 7:34 PM
The GOP was really trying not to do the blame game. Hence Pelosi’s speech made something that stunk to high heaven totally unpalatable.
How can the American people believe what they are being told while a total political game is being played. Remember Barack Obama saying McCain should get no credit, Obama should get it all? Then you have Pelosi standing there slapping them in their face, knowing that their constituents are already really pissed off. Sorry, I couldn’t have voted for it under those circumstances. It’s the first time in a long time that I’ve seen Republicans not cave to pressure and instead actually represent the people they were paid to represent.
There were also fallacies in that bill such as CEOs’ pay only being limited to $500,000 IF their entity took more than $300 million! And then the only penalty was that the company didn’t get a tax expense for anything over $500,000. Meaning, there was no true limit.
Next, how do you give someone $700 Billion when they won’t even admit what went wrong to begin with? What would cause you to believe Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and others would actually do their job this time?
katablog.com on September 29, 2008 at 7:40 PM
Doctor Zero on September 29, 2008 at 7:43 PM
Absolutely NOTHING is stopping her. And I’m not at all certain that wasn’t the whole point of this exercise. “See? We tried…but the mean ol’ GOP wouldn’t help us out enough, and we HAVE to pass a bailout measure.” So – a little ornament here, a little tinsel there, and before you know it, the Christmas tree is back on the table.
uncivilized on September 29, 2008 at 7:49 PM
Who’s wealth? I haven’t lost a penny. Oh you mean the millions lost by millionaires who made their money on the stock market as opposed to, you know, a job.
If the economy does tank and the world turns upside down I’m going to enjoy watching the former elitists begging for food from rednecks. Because when it comes down to survival, when all is said and done, the barter system doesn’t work with unskilled laborers.
You want two pounds of flour from me? What do you have to trade? Stock certificates and a diploma from Harvard? HaHaHaHa…..
Guardian on September 29, 2008 at 7:55 PM
After thinking about it, maybe
Frank’s Big Freeze
would be better. We need to name this recession before the Democrats get the Bush/McCain recession to stick.
huckleberryfriend on September 29, 2008 at 7:55 PM
San Fran Nan torpedoed the bill.
From Kudlow’s Money Politics
From nextright
phreshone on September 29, 2008 at 8:01 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. We do have some investments in the market, but there have been paper gains and paper loses. That’s the way of the market. The only people who have lost their shirt so far are those who were heavily invested in the market and yes, you are talking millionaires. Probably the reason so many have suddenly become financial experts and are pushing the bailout.
katablog.com on September 29, 2008 at 8:02 PM
Paulson had his original 3 page “solution” prepared at least 6 weeks ago. I think I read this on RedState, sorry I
don’t have a link. Then the Dems loaded it up with everything that they wanted & the Republicans negotiated on the “extras”. They got bogged down in minors instead of taking issue with the 3 page solution. I know very little about finances, but my opinion is do only what is necessary, in the best way that is possible. If the Dems don’t agree let them pass it. I thought Pelosi said this week that if she didn’t have at least 100 Republicans, she would not pass it or bring it up for a vote. NO BAILOUT
bluefox on September 29, 2008 at 8:04 PM
From townhall:
House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, the number two House Democrat in authority (behind only Speaker Nancy Pelosi), in defending his party from responsibility for the defeat of the financial stability bill today, delivered the all-time lamest excuse I’ve ever heard (my transcription from video on the PBS NewsHour; boldface mine):
“No Democrat that we could get to vote for the bill didn’t vote for the bill.”
Behind that tortured double-negative is a tautology. This is empty double-talk — delivered by the dishonest, intended for the gullible.
Here’s a short civics lesson, one that any defender of the Democratic Party badly needs for you to forget today:
An indispensable part of the genius of the American two-party political system is that it provides each party’s leadership with a whole range of tools to enforce party discipline. There are committee assignments. There are office locations. There are discretionary decisions on staffing and funding of staffs. There is a panoply of carrots and sticks that party leaders from both parties can and do use to influence their members’ votes. There are even party officials — “whips” — whose entire position is to facilitate the application of those carrots and sticks. And this isn’t even vote-trading on issues, much less any sort of overt corruption. It’s just the day-in, day-out working of Congress, and such has been the grease that has permitted the great wheels of legislation to turn since the birth of the Republic. Indeed, you can find parallels to it in the Roman Republic two millennia ago.
Past masters of the practice include such legislative legends as Speaker Sam Rayburn (D-TX) in the House and Majority Leader Lyndon Johnson (D-TX) in the Senate, but these tools are quite effective even in the hands of such modern-day legislators as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid — if, but of course only if, they choose to take those tools in hand and apply them.
Ninety-five Democrats bucked their party leadership today precisely because Nancy Pelosi made it cost-free for them to do so. By refusing to make this a “party loyalty vote” — and thereby giving a clear signal to every Democratic member of the House that there would be neither carrots nor sticks applied by the House leadership — Speaker Pelosi ensured that even the mere dozen additional Democratic votes needed for passage wouldn’t be there.
The indisputable fact is that the Democratic leadership of the House consciously declined to use the tools available to them that would have ensured the passage of this bill. Period, end of paragraph, and end of the story for today. This is a matter of simple arithmetic and standard party practices. It is not a matter that can even be seriously debated. It is only a matter that Democrats like Majority Leader Hoyer can attempt to conceal, as he does in the statement quoted above, by misleading the public about how hard the Democratic leadership actually tried.
Keemo on September 29, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Holy crap, everything dropped a lot. Is this a good time to buy?
El_Terrible on September 29, 2008 at 8:09 PM
No one likes this bailout, and there’s plenty not to like about it, starting with the fact that it does nothing to remedy the country’s addiction to debt which is the real problem. Indeed, it’s merely the next “fix” for that addiction, not to mention a bonanza for millions of foolhardy and/or dishonest people who took out mortgages they knew they couldn’t afford.
Still, Bush is right that the consequences of not having the bailout will be worse than the consequences of having it. Right now I’d say we are headed for a Depression. Almost no one alive remembers what that is really like. When they find out, there will be chaos. At least in the thirties the country was tough. Now it’s soft and pampered. People will be in for a shock when they find out the privation they’ve been (falsely) complaining about can be quite real, and is about to descend.
So, bottom line, the thing has got to pass. But it failed today in the Democratically-controlled House by 23 votes, with more than 90 Democrats voting against it.
Question: Where is Barack Obama? The man is the newly annointed head of the Democratic Party. He could tell his followers in Congress that for the good of the country, they have to vote for this, awful as it is. Has he? No. Why? Either because he doesn’t understand what we are actually facing, or because he sees it’s unpopular and hasn’t the guts to risk his lead in the polls by swimming against present opinion.
The country cannot abide such “leadership.” You can’t just vote “present” on this one. Nor would such a “vote” by Obama be honest, since in fact he’s not even present. . . .
His yammering inaction in the face of this financial crisis is bad enough. But it is yet more frightening to think about what he would do, or fail to do, in the face of the far more malevolent and lethal threat we will face if and when he occupies the White House.
Give me someone with some guts. For whatever his flaws might be, and they’re plenty, I believe there is someone meeting that description on the ballot this year.
Keemo on September 29, 2008 at 8:09 PM
From a tax standpoint, the $1.4 trillion lost today might have translated into $500MM in tax revenue if all the gains were short-term and taxed at the 35% marginal rate. So the hit to the federal government is tangible.
dedalus on September 29, 2008 at 8:12 PM
LET IT BURN.
I could care less. If Wachovia made stupid decisions and bought horrible Mortgages the last 3 years, let ‘em die.
If we ‘rescued’ the Wachovias, what other kinds of STUPID business decisions would they make in 2009, or 2010, or 2011, or 2012? Who’s to say that by 2010 these banks wouldn’t end up not only having bad mortgages but having bad COMMERCIAL real estate deeds and titles? Instead of “homes”, they’d have “strip malls” as well in 2010.
THE FREE MARKET WORKS> YOU MAKE STUPID DECISIONS AS A BUSINESS, YOU DESERVE TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS
Unless you have 1,000,000% of your 401k in one company (and after enron & tyco in ‘02, if you still have all your eggs in one basket you’re a moron), nothing is happening to your money in the long run. NOTHING.
Now stop whining, call your reps to vote ‘no’ on this bill, and push for a raising of the FDIC and a revision of the SarbOx law. Watch the dow stabalize around 11.5 or 11.6 on friday. And then ask “wait, i thought this was an EMERGENCY”
You ask me, this is called a “LOAN CORRECTION”. we need to go back to the days of 20% down on a house, where you SAVE money, and have GOOD CREDIT, before getting the privileg of owning a house.
LET IT BURN!
battleoflepanto1571 on September 29, 2008 at 8:13 PM
The O’Reillysaurus is really PO’ed that the Government didn’t warn him to sell his stocks. Apparently he lost a bundle. He’ll definitely sell at the bottom.
RedWinged Blackbird on September 29, 2008 at 8:15 PM
amen. someone noted earlier, david gregory is married to a fannie mae chair. andrea mitchell is married to alan greenspan. most of the ‘media’ heads are insanely rich and live in NYC.
you bet your bottom dollar the yare pushing for ‘bailouts’ because THEY themselves are hurting.
“main street is hurting” my a$$. more like “w. 85th street, upper west side, manhattan is hurting”
battleoflepanto1571 on September 29, 2008 at 8:19 PM
Final comment (for now) I promise…
Nancy Pelosi is the ugly American, the angry Liberal described in so many books. This lady is as close to the anti-Christ as any human I have seen in my lifetime. This woman is EVIL to the core. Is Obama a younger male version of Pelosi? This woman is playing politics in a time when Americans face horrific consequences. I don’t care about the (R) or the (D) at the moment, I want these people to deliver for once. How can Americans not see how evil this woman is? How can Americans sit back and shrug their shoulders (while doing nothing) while Harry Reid played politics with a war that our sons and daughters are fighting on foreign soil? What the hell is wrong with us! How can we allow these actions to go on with no consequences.
Keemo on September 29, 2008 at 8:20 PM
I can’t believe the class warfare on the right. You have no idea what you have wrought. Let’s be honest here: The farm bill was socialism for the red states. Stimulus checks are socialism for the poor and lower middle class. Yet those measures didn’t see the outcry that accompanied this bill, which may have been the last best hope for avoiding deflationary depression. Your nihilism is ignoble (although I suppose you, in your populist fevor, will take that as a compliment) and you won’t escape the consquences of this day.
phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 8:34 PM
This part of your message I understood perfectly. From there after, you lost me. Pampered or not, maybe those of us not so pampered think it’s time for the pampered to get strong again.
Credit is a drug. About the only way to shake a drug is to go through the DTs so I hear. I’ll say it again, why on earth would we give $700 billion to people who refuse to admit their mistake and show that they are going to change. We didn’t see that from the Democrats and I believe that possibly we did see that with the Republicans.
How long have we been yelling at the Republicans to stand up for what they believe in? Well today, they did.
katablog.com on September 29, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Ah maybe we do understand. Maybe we are sick and tired of the socialism of bailouts.
BTW, maybe the stimulus check was socialism to you, but for my family it was merely a return of some of the tax dollars we actually paid.
katablog.com on September 29, 2008 at 8:45 PM
what’s amazing is, if that’s true, then why is congress taking off 2 days for RoshShashannah?
Why did Nancy P tear into bush BEFORE the vote instead of after?
Why did 94 DEMOCRATS vote “no” on the bill, including EVERY HISPANIC IN CONGRESS?
Why did Jesse Jackson Jr. vote “no”
Oh and please explain to me how I will be affected by this, because I won’t.
THe idea that liquidity is going to dry up overnight is a joke.
Guess what? My credit score is over 800. If I want to buy a house, I will save 20% FIRST for the down payment. If I want a loan, I can walk into AnyBank USA and get a loan, because I am what lenders call a “GOOD INVESTMENT”
the folks that will be hurt will be those that don’t need to own a credit card, much less a “my mortgage payment is 65% of my monthly income” HOUSE!
crazy.
again, tell me how armageddon will play out. because the way i see it, wall street lends less to regional and local banks, but those with good credit will still be able to get loans.
the POSTIVE is that companies (and banks) won’t ACT LIKE IDIOTS and make horrible investments again (like they did in 06, 07, and 08), so my local bank will be smarter before it buys up oceanfront property in flagstaff like it did before.
as long as your 401k isn’t all in one compnay (and after enron it had betternot be), the FDIC and diversification will protect you.
and for all your ‘deflationary’ woes, no mention is made of the HUGE inflation pressures of INJECTING all this bailout $$$ into the economy (however fast or slow it happens???)
there’s a reason the dollar was the strongest today it’s been in years. market (and housing) correction.
watch. dow stabalizes at 11.5 this week. we might have 0.something% growth, or even slight negative growth this quarter, but no recession. 2010 things will be back to normal.
but again, who’s hurting> not ME. not YOU. LEHMAN?> yes.
do i care?
#%#% no.
battleoflepanto1571 on September 29, 2008 at 8:55 PM
^^This!
HondaV65 on September 29, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Ok, I finally read something that give me some hope that all is not lost, or I’m just smoking something. The article from Rep Cantor said that people were calling representatives and didn’t want the bill passed. Now, if just Dems were calling and wanted the economy to tank because it will help Obama, then there is nothing we can do. But if Republicans were calling in and wanted their cacus to stand up all is not lost. This means we are engaged and enraged.
Now, how do we keep the anger until Nov 5th and how do we convince enough people to through these bums out!
I must admit McCain’s presser didn’t insire me much, so perhaps Mr. Stright talk will be back tomorrow and go medieval on Obama.
sophiesmom on September 29, 2008 at 8:56 PM
FU** YOU, NANCY PELOSI!
SouthernGent on September 29, 2008 at 9:01 PM
I told people repeatedly in these threads. Look them up if you wish. “Let it burn” nihilists, whether they are rightists or leftists, are my enemies. Perhaps its time for realignment.
phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 9:10 PM
Agree to disagree then.
I will not lose anything in this supposed financial armageddon.
Banks will lend to credit-worthy individuals.
Liquidity will slow a bit, BUT WHY SHOULD STUPID BUSINESS DECISIONS NOT GO UNPUNISHED???
click on this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theglobe.com
“TheGlobe.com”… made the most $$$ ever from an IPO in 1998. Do you know what it did? Basically, you paid $30 to globe.com, filled out a questionaire… and they would email you “WEBSITES THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE!!!”"
W. T. F.
Now I am saying, yes, whoever invested in this nonsense deserves to go bankrupt.
Additionally, whatever wall street wizards bought BAD MORTGAGES — with ADJUSTABLE RATES mind you — leverage about 1:30 (paying $1 for $30 of that liability) deserves to go bankrupt
if the market won’t punish bad decisions, more fortunes will be lost.
battleoflepanto1571 on September 29, 2008 at 9:17 PM
So this should justify the socialist bail out plan?
Why didnt we talk to international banks first, and secure credit to cover this private insurace plan? Why can ot only be funded with tax payer dollars?
Why does this plan not address the rro cause of the problem?
Fannie Mae and Freddie MAC even now are still authorized to uunderwite loans for unqualified buyers.
paulsur on September 29, 2008 at 9:18 PM
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