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Will Pelosi’s second attempt at a bailout include ACORN? Update: Dow loses 777 points, more than on 9/11; Update: $1.1 trillion in market value lost

posted at 4:18 pm on September 29, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Why not? She tried a bipartisan bill and got nothing for it. What’s stopping her from turning it into a Christmas tree for the left and passing it on a strict party-line vote? Bush will sign it regardless and Senate Republicans will be under tremendous pressure to decline a filibuster with the Dow down 600 points today and god knows where tomorrow. This is the flaw in the “if the majority thinks it’s so important, let them pass it” approach: They will pass it, on their terms, and they’ll point to Republicans like Gingrich and Paul Ryan and the Journal — and Paulson and Bernanke, of course — who’ve acknowledged this is an emergency to take credit for rescuing the economy. All they have to do is wait a few days until the public’s good and terrified and the polls on the bailout start to reverse. They’re reversing already.

A number of Republican House members and staff, along with others who are plugged in, are telling me that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats will come back with a new bill that includes all the left-wing stuff that was scrubbed from the bill that was defeated today in the House.

As this scenario goes, the House Democrats need 218 votes, and they have to pick up a number of black and Hispanic House members who jumped ship because the Wall Street provisions, in their view, were too benign. So things like the bankruptcy judges setting mortgage terms and rates, the ACORN slush-fund spending, the union proxy for corporate boards, stricter limits on executive compensation, and much larger equity ownership of selling banks through warrants will all find itself back in the new bill. Of course, this scenario will lose more Republican votes. But insiders tell me President Bush will take Secretary Paulson’s advice and sign that kind of legislation.

House Republicans weren’t willing to swallow a bitter pill today so they’ll swallow a more bitter pill later this week. And guess what? They’ll still get killed at the polls in November. Bill Kristol thinks McCain’s only chance now is to stop campaigning (again) and come back to D.C. to try to drive through a compromise. If he succeeds, it’ll prove his leadership and calm the markets. I don’t see how he’s supposed to pull that off, though, when the entire Democratic leadership will be primed to whine about how he’s only making things worse by being there, is ruining delicate negotiations, etc. If Kristol’s serious about solving the crisis and willing to sacrifice electoral gain to do so, there’s an easy compromise solution: Have McCain and Obama do some sort of joint appearance, maybe a presser, urging support for a bailout. That’ll swing public opinion sufficiently to remove the political incentives to voting no and give Pelosi the 10 votes she needs to pass it now. There’s no gain for McCain at the polls in doing so, admittedly, but he’s the guy who preaches “country first.” Here’s his chance.

Update: This is day one.

The Dow closed the day down 777.68 points, or 6.89 percent, beating its previous record for an intraday drop of 721.56 points, set during the first trading day after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. Still, in percentage terms, the decline remained well below the more than 20 percent drops seen on Black Monday of October 1987 and the Depression.

“This is panic, and fear is running amok,” one trader told CNBC. “We are in a classic financial meltdown, and it’s panic-based. We’re seeing panic selling.”

Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.


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rockhauler on September 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM

Concur, this is a self fullfiling prophecy.

Romeo13 on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Who says that Wall Street is in the tank for Republicans?

What you saw today was WS making a point: “Bail our asses out or we will tank the market!”.

belad on September 29, 2008 at 4:59 PM

If you look at the money, Obama’s gotten way more money from wall street bigs than McCain has. The wall street bigs know they can push Obama around, just like they apparently can push Bush around. They know McCain is a cranky old guy who won’t roll over for them.

That’s why they are doing what they can to elect Obama.

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Terrye on September 29, 2008 at 4:57 PM

Oh.. talking about Dave Ramsey.. :)

about the cash.. it’s better than using credit.. which kinda got the market to this position.. (in very simplified terms..)

DaveC on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Can’t we have a celebratory SNL “if you can’t afford it..” video?

TexasDan on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Even if you accept that the ‘loss’ today was $1.1 trillion (meaning that the stock market never recovered, which is ludicrous on its face), the ‘loss’ was to individuals and institutions who CHOSE to be in the market. They elected to put their money at risk.

I didn’t choose to pony up $700 Billion, and neither did anybody else here.

You sound like a whiny socialist Allah.

Martin on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

NoDonkey is right. As a matter of fact, Bush needs to not only tell the Democrats that he will veto any bill that has ACORN BS in it, but now is the time for him to tell the American public all about his, McCain’s and other Republican efforts to rein in Fannie and Freddie. He should question the campaign coffers of Democrats that accepted money from Fannie and Freddie (if you catch my drift)and go on the attack. If he doesn’t smack Pelosi down, he deserves whatever happens to his legacy. If McCain doesn’t set the record straight, he deserves to lose and everybody who voted for Obama will deserve socialism and the end of America as we know it.

Star20 on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Sell your stock, buy guns and ammo, stockpile food, it’s the end of the world. Game over, man, Game over.

rockhauler on September 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM

I am tempted to buy a gun, but that’s unrelated to all of this… I am however holding on to my stocks which are completely in the toilet, and am trying to stop myself from buying more because they’re so incredibly cheap right now. If McCain looked like the likely winner in November, I would probably buy… A President Obama will signify the beginning of the end of our country… not to mention he wants to jack capital gains taxes way up.

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Cuffy Meigs on September 29, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Guess the pundit?

Surprise.

Cuffy Meigs on September 29, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Are we allowed to doubt Pelosi’s patriotism yet?

Maxx on September 29, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.

Am I the only person who is seeing this as a good thing?

If the market can lose $1.1 trillion, to me, it’s proof that this has less to do with bad loans than it does to artificial confidence and unfounded panic.

I’ll put this in simple terms. If someone loses their job; they go home, eliminate superfluous expenses and adjust their future spending until they get back to work. If they overstretched themselves or were unstable to start with, they lose everything. If they were on solid ground, they weather the storm and recover. If you give a loan to the people who were short to begin with, you end up filling 1 ft. of a 2 ft. hole.

Yes failure sucks, but as we saw last week and is the entire basis for the bail out plan, stronger entities will buy up the failures at bargain basement prices and things will quickly steady themselves out.

On the contrary, if you promise a false sense of a rainbow solution in the middle of a false panic, you create a larger problem.

Doesn’t anyone understand that an undervalued market is the impetus of growth and investment? Let it burn, it will grow back quickly. Shore it up halfway and you still have half a hole and a false sense of security while the fundamental problems remain.

If the gov’t would simply say, “we’re not doing crap”, the market would stop banking on false hope and deal with the problem itself.

The BIG problem is uncertainty and the only uncertainty is what the gov’t will do and if it will work. Answer that question with a simple answer- nothing- and uncertainty ends instantly.

Damiano on September 29, 2008 at 5:05 PM

2 months ago I moved 3/4 of my roth IRA into the market, thinking that it had bottomed out.

Yippee!

BadgerHawk on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 PM

The Dems control Congrees. All those Dems that voted against the bailout just want political CYA…

misterspork on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 PM

The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.

And when the market inevitably recovers (perhaps months down the road), the wealth created will exceed the cost of the projected bailout by a larger margin.

Physics Geek on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.

Cuffy Meigs on September 29, 2008 at 4:55 PM

Which proves that the bailout is a good idea.

Right.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 PM

A President Obama will signify the beginning of the end of our country… not to mention he wants to jack capital gains taxes way up.

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Eh, I’m not to worried about that anymore. He won’t have any capital gains to tax.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:06 PM

My GOD, Allah…

You are truly a whiner.

You’re actually SUCCUMBING to the fear perpetrated by the Democrats including Bush and Paulson, and are ADVOCATING socialism.

You’re a sheeple.

fossten on September 29, 2008 at 4:47 PM

tru dat!

twoarmman on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

Let’s see…Wall Street, Hank Paulson, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid tell me that we MUST do this? And I’m supposed to go along with this? LMAO! When President Bush needed support for this pig with lots and lots of lipstick, did he start with congressional Republicans? Nope! He went right for the left wing of the Democratic Party! Gee…I wonder why?

Sorry to all you elites and insiders but considering the list of supporters…my vote is let’s go with Freedom for a change! You socialist economic “engineers” can suck it!

sabbott on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

A trillion dollars of “wealth” lost today? Not really!

The price at which a stock trades during a “normal” market is the price of a marginal share, when only a small percentage of the shares are actually traded. If someone tried to sell all of the shares of a large company on one day, there wouldn’t be enough buyers, and the price would drop, so the actual “wealth” of the company is less than the number of shares times the share price. The actual “wealth” in a company is called its “book value”= (assets – liabilities) / shares. Stock prices are often many times the book value, based on expectations of profits and/or dividends.

The only wealth that disappeared today is that of people who bought stocks at higher prices and sold today. For those who didn’t sell today, and will sell sometime in the future when the markets turn up again, the original wealth of their shares is still intact, as long as the companies didn’t go bankrupt.

P.S. The Dow Jones lost 27% in one day in October 1987. By mid-1988, it had recovered to above the previous high. But we did have President Reagan back then…

Steve Z on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

NoDonkey is right. As a matter of fact, Bush needs to not only tell the Democrats that he will veto any bill that has ACORN BS in it, but now is the time for him to tell the American public all about his, McCain’s and other Republican efforts to rein in Fannie and Freddie. He should question the campaign coffers of Democrats that accepted money from Fannie and Freddie (if you catch my drift)and go on the attack. If he doesn’t smack Pelosi down, he deserves whatever happens to his legacy. If McCain doesn’t set the record straight, he deserves to lose and everybody who voted for Obama will deserve socialism and the end of America as we know it.

Star20 on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Good luck with that.

I’ve watched Bush roll-over everytime the Democrats hurled lies at him. Why would the roll-over King develop a voice now? Bush has ruined the Republican Party.

FiveWays on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

So, Uncle Sam is not the biggest slumlord ever, quite yet?

reaganaut on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

Mother Superior Nancy went out of her way to describe today’s bill as a “Republican” bill in the breath after calling it a bipartisan one. I fear both of the alternatives (a “Democrat” bill; the do-nothing option) much more than I did this bill. If Cantor could basically come out last night and say ‘this is the best we are going to get’ I can live with that; I wish that 11 others (Blue Dogs included) could have accepted it.

thirtypundit on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

Post hoc ergo propter hoc: Tool of demagogues everywhere!

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

This is a manufactured panic. The news media has been screaming for over a week that the market was going to crash on Monday, today, if there was no bail out bill passed

Pundits have been giving speeches, for more than a week, than the market was going to crash. Congress has been saying, for more than a week, that the market was going to crash.

Comments have been posted on blogs all over the internet for more than a week that the market was going to crash.

People began to believe the hordes that the market was going to crash, banks were going to fail, people are going to lose their jobs, we’re all going to starve, its the end of the world, repent your sins and vote democrat.

Sell your stock, buy guns and ammo, stockpile food, it’s the end of the world. Game over, man, Game over.

Well guess what…….

“The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, it hit me on the head.”

rockhauler on September 29, 2008 at 5:01 PM

Agree, they seem to be talking the markets down. Makes me wonder if there is another hidden agenda here.

Maxx on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

My GOD, Allah…

You are truly a whiner.

You’re actually SUCCUMBING to the fear perpetrated by the Democrats including Bush and Paulson, and are ADVOCATING socialism.

You’re a sheeple.

fossten on September 29, 2008 at 4:47 PM

I welcome you to our Sheeple Overlord.

The AllahLord is my Shepard, I shall not want of words. I lay me down in a green velvet recliner. He leadeth me besides rivers of gin and worry.
My barrel of snark and sarcasm runneth over and I will dwell in the HotAir house forever.

Mcguyver on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Someone got lucky on some images 4 years ago and made a name for himself, now he thinks he knows it all, no, not Obama, but the other chosen one, Allahpundit.

WoosterOh on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Dem blam GOP…..Dems brag about 60% voting for….Dem don’t need any help to pass this bill….bill loses but less than 20 votes…..90 dems vote against….ands its the GOP fault….typical DEMs…..my thought Pelosi knew it was going down called a vote….to blame GOP and then get in all their pet projects in round 2….because they will be desperate to pass a bill……..sad sad sad…..Pelosi claims a need for bipartisanship after fact but spews her hate just before the vote…..Pelosi threw it!

GOPGryphon on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

You socialist economic “engineers” can suck it!

BRAVO!!

Fletch54 on September 29, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Surprise.

Cuffy Meigs on September 29, 2008 at 5:05 PM

I agree with this assessment… with the exception of the idea that Obama is a solution and that the evildoers are isolated to Wall St.

Still the theory is sound. Trot out those responsible- Dodd, Frank, Schumer, Pelosi, Reid and Obama-, resolve to prosecute them and move forward with a REAL solution.

The market will go through the roof.

Damiano on September 29, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Show how many Democrats voted against the Bill(Almost 100!), Democrats control both houses of Congress!

Why couldn’t the Democrats Get Enough Votes to pass the bill?

DEMOCRATS CONTROL THE CONGRESS THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE!

Where are Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi’s Leadership?

Democrats vote Party line ALL THE TIME.. whats going on?

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.

I didn’t lose any tax dollars today. That’s a good thing.

Did my 401K go down? Yep … it goes up and down all the time. With the bailout … it would just go DOWN a whole helluva lot longer … while my tax dollars are going to bailout Wall Street Fat Cats and Joe Sixpacks who can’t live within their means. The market has to correct … and the sooner it does … the sooner we all start making money again. Will it be painful? Oh sure … but you can blame that on the Sub Prime loans the Democrats forced on this country. You want to “bail out” this country? FIRE THE DEMOCRATS … it’s 700 BILLION DOLLARS CHEAPER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE!

HondaV65 on September 29, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Let’s see…Wall Street, Hank Paulson, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid tell me that we MUST do this? And I’m supposed to go along with this? LMAO! When President Bush needed support for this pig with lots and lots of lipstick, did he start with congressional Republicans? Nope! He went right for the left wing of the Democratic Party! Gee…I wonder why?

Sorry to all you elites and insiders but considering the list of supporters…my vote is let’s go with Freedom for a change! You socialist economic “engineers” can suck it!

sabbott on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

AMEN

Randy1968 on September 29, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Put that twinkie down and take walk or ride your bike and get a little sun. Quit watching porn all day and get a girlfriend while your at it.

kangjie on September 29, 2008 at 4:45 PM

But does he wear a rakish hat?
Oh, I’ll bet he’s not fat
Perhaps he swaggers on a heath
With several daggers in his teeth
Oh, don’t you know he’s a Romeo
To every mademoiselle
Blast this Allahpundit to Hell!

Tav on September 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

This is a manufactured panic

I don’t care what the reason is for a panic, markets are rational until they become irrational.

This could have been avoided if Paulson’s “paper” just went through quickly, it was a tool to “reboot” confidence in the fixed income markets.

Widows and orphans are going to pay the price now.

phreshone on September 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

Cuffy:

I am more surprised that he is on jury duty than the fact that he agrees with me! Both the left and the right should be against the stuff that was on display today.

Vince on September 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

rockhauler:

Wachovia failed today, Fortis in Europe had to be bailed out, the Brits have nationalized a major bank. Those are not manufactured facts, they are things that are happening.

AIG really lost its ass. Lehman Bros is really gone. These are real issues.

Terrye on September 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

The trillion that was lost today was not taxpayer money.

It was a decrease in value of the stocks that have risen in value over the last few years.

I lost approx 1.69% because I moved my teeny tiny portfolio into conservative investments months ago.

JustTruth101 on September 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

The markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Let’s see…Wall Street, Hank Paulson, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid tell me that we MUST do this? And I’m supposed to go along with this? LMAO! When President Bush needed support for this pig with lots and lots of lipstick, did he start with congressional Republicans? Nope! He went right for the left wing of the Democratic Party! Gee…I wonder why?

Sorry to all you elites and insiders but considering the list of supporters…my vote is let’s go with Freedom for a change! You socialist economic “engineers” can suck it!

sabbott on September 29, 2008 at 5:07 PM

Dude, what does Palin have to do with this?
/

carbon_footprint on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Reasons why the Republicans should abandon their principles, ignore their constituents and bend over:

1.Stable markets are more important than freedom
2.The apocalypse will be blamed on them
3.Palosi might pass a horrible partisan bill without them
4.The MSM might not like them
5.The Democrats might not like them
6.It does nothing to fix the real problem but might buy Wall Street a couple of months
7.America is doomed for eternity if they don’t
8.American people cannot survive financial adversity
9.Bush, Obama, Reed, Palosi and Frank say so
10. Bail me out once…..

neuquenguy on September 29, 2008 at 4:57 PM

ha! good stuff

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

HONDA V65………..Hell yes…..I agree….nice post!

GOPGryphon on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Steve Z is correct. I lost over $50k today, but I’m not worried. It will either come back when everything is fixed, or it will all be taken away from me anyway, when we become the USSA.

Star20 on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Why not? She tried a bipartisan bill and got nothing for it.

Oh, Bull Shit. She tried to demagogue the Republicans all week over it, and had 94 Democrats vote against it, while losing the vote by 13. How the fuck is that “bipartisan” on her part?

She’s an idiot, and lacks the brains and the character required to lead, no matter what Hugh Hewitt tells himself. She has no one to blame but herself.

Jaibones on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/memory_lane_lynching_franklin.html

Barney Frank, Maxine Waters and Dodd need to be in Prison.

Obama also needs to be investigated by the FBI and forced to testify under oath..

Lots of others in Congress also..

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Yeah, I’m going to give my financial guy a call to see where to put my money to best capitalize on the long-term recovery of this thing. I’m still about 25-30 years away from retirement.

Slublog on September 29, 2008 at 4:47 PM

Good call. I’m only down $144 this year. I moved it all into bonds and savings in March. WHEW!

Theworldisnotenough on September 29, 2008 at 5:12 PM

If you want to fix this problem, look at the cause of the problem.

Where are the regulations that control Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), Credit Default Swaps (CDS), and Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDO)?

Where are the regulations that define which part of these exotic derivatives are assets and what are liabilities?

Where are the regulations that require provisions for the losses that occur when a CDS becomes an obligation to pay as the result of a default in the underlying debt?

Where are the regulations that limit the about of debt that can be assumed relative to assets?

Where are the regulations that require transparent pricing of these derivatives, establish a market mechanism for buying, selling, and trading these instruments?

Where are the regulations that prevent the creation of even more of these failed, risky, and now worthless debt instruments?

Who were the politicians that enabled this kind of risk taking? Who were the politicians who resisted restraining corporations that were clearly over extended, over leveraged.

Fix the problem.

rockhauler on September 29, 2008 at 5:12 PM

Terrye on September 29, 2008 at 5:10 PM

It’s hopeless Terrye. We’re obviously evil socialists trying to bring up “facts” and “economics” and the like. They have their one true path.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:13 PM

Still, in percentage terms, the decline remained well below the more than 20 percent drops seen on Black Monday of October 1987 and the Depression.

Ahh, but this part seems to be lost in the very high number of instances of the word ‘panic’. We won’t see that on the news, will we? The media wants corpses and it seems as if the establishment GOP has put the word out to their minions to push this bailout. Ideology factored in at some point but now the powers that be are getting nervous about their own wealth so we’re all supposed to fall in lockstep and support socialism.

Yup, time to just join the EU. Sarkozy is the puppet head leader this term. Maybe if we’re nice they will let President Obama head it after we become a card carrying member.

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 5:13 PM

The irony is deep. An atheist named Allah employed in a conservative blog is for the bailout. Must be the season of the witch. – Christine on September 29, 2008 at 5:00 PM

This may help in your quest for enlightenment.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Terrye:

I work as an insurance broker and I have plenty of insurance companies that I work with that are not worried about their business. I have plenty of clients that also aren’t spooked by the by this BS. What does worry them is knee jerk reactions to a problem that is eminently fixable!

Vince on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Can anyone recommend a good country to move to after B. Hussein is elected?

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

1987 was preceded by an up market. We were already in a bear market so of course the percentage decline is less. That’s no solace.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

From NRO:

Scaling Down [Jay Nordlinger]

Wanted to share with you an arresting letter from a friend:

“Just thought I’d send some thoughts from small-business America. My husband’s business is a canary in the coalmine. When tax policies are favorable to business, he hires more guys, buys more goods, etc. When he is taxed more heavily, he fires people, doesn’t buy anything new, etc. Well, duh. So, at the mere thought of a President Obama, he has paid off his debt, canceled new spending, and jotted a list of whom to “let go.”

The first of the guys will get the news tomorrow. And these are not minimum-wage earners. These are “rich” guys, making between $200,000 and $250,000 a year.

My husband will make sure that we’re okay, money-wise, but he won’t give himself a paycheck that will just be sent to Washington. He’ll make sure that he’s not in “rich guy” tax territory. So, he will not spend his money, not show a profit, and scale his workforce down to the bare minimum.

Multiply this scenario across the country and you’ll see the Obama effect: unemployment, recession, etc. No business owner will vote for this man, but many a “middle-class worker” will vote himself out of a job. Sad the Republican can’t articulate this.”

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

A lot of people understand what’s going on and what a Dem win will mean. Small business owners will be hard hit, unemployment will rise, business creation will dwindle, the list goes on and on.

This is what Pelosi is fighting for. She is a reckless, partisan fool. None of this will alter her life, but that means nothing to her and her cohorts.

My anger with the Republicans is that they squandered their leadership advantage, and now we’re left with this – disaster.

The worst is that we will be left with an untenable bailout loaded with pork, and there will be nothing said about how this Congress plans to jump-start the economy.

Cody1991 on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Dems dont want the loss because it will be harder to do all their social crap….and stick it to rich white Gop members….Look the only people losing Huge huge amounts of money are the very wealthy…..sure some in the middle are getting hurt….but the people Obama claims to want to help…lower class……did not get hurt 1 bit…..and wont…..bailout no bailout….won’t make a shred of difference to them…….

GOPGryphon on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

People like Terrye have put their faith in the markets, not realizing they’re fallable.

You are now seeing people getting their just desserts for putting their faith in money.

Divine punishment for divinely stupid folks on this board.

Sakaki on September 29, 2008 at 5:15 PM

Guess the pundit?

Surprise.

Cuffy Meigs on September 29, 2008 at 5:05 PM

sign of the apocalypse

DaveC on September 29, 2008 at 5:15 PM

Vince on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

I work at an institutional investment firm managing money and doing securities analysis and I certify that those people are wrong.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:16 PM

you saying go for this, after already bought/closed?

jp on September 29, 2008 at 5:00 PM

He said he bought on Friday…there are always contingencies…financing, home inspection, etc. Plus most states have a “back out” period, based on work days not weekends.
So my answer is yes, let them know you wish to negotiate, bad economic news, unless you get a better deal you may not get the loan, chances are they won’t walk away for $5,000 to $10,000.

I sold my house a few weeks ago and the agent only got a 3% commish. She dropped it from 7 to help out the buyers because I wouldn’t lower my price.

DerKrieger on September 29, 2008 at 4:59 PM

What’s wrong with asking for this, getting another 2% from each broker to close the deal…on $200,000 that alone is $8,000, why not ask, once again the worst is a no…and there are plenty of home on the market.
Bad news lowers the price of the house…

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:16 PM

It’s hopeless Terrye. We’re obviously evil socialists trying to bring up “facts” and “economics” and the like. They have their one true path.

Hear, hear.

Everything is really fine, it’s just Wall Street and it won’t affect us. Or, big deal, we’ll have a depression and I’ll be okay. Or we need to lockup Frank and Dodd and then that’ll solve the problem.

Meanwhile all of these reports of bank failures and credit problems in the major financial institutions (that lend money that run the businesses that most of us work for) don’t mean anything.

Amazing thinking, really.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:16 PM

I am normally very far right but this bill (as bad as it was) should have passed today. It was probably as good as we were going to get. Too bad that Pussy Galore blew it. She is beyond stupid, she is a complete and total disaster.

duff65 on September 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Divine justice sometimes results in collateral damage.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:17 PM

I’m going to be fine. Even my parents are fine – they have everything in an insured bond fund and they have no mortgage or car loan. My husband has a government job and even if I can’t find another job soon (and I have 6 months’ salary in the bank, as everyone should), we can survive on his salary. Tell me again why I am supposed to be panicking????

rockmom on September 29, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Barney Frank, Maxine Waters and Dodd need to be in Prison.

Obama also needs to be investigated by the FBI and forced to testify under oath..

Lots of others in Congress also..

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Agreed, and I would throw Cox in their, ahead of the banking committee should have know what was going on. Which is why the White House is so wussy, they have their FTC, Banking, SEC, people all getting caught doing nothing.

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Didn’t the dollar go way up today? I’m more concerned about rapid inflation than I am about a short term dive in the market. I don’t want to see the govt. try to print its way out of this.

I would be onboard with this if I believed it was as bad as President Bush and Pelosi/ Reid were telling us. But based on all the crap that the Democrats tried to pull this past week, it’s tough to believe things are really that bad.

BadgerHawk on September 29, 2008 at 5:19 PM

Remove the Corporate tax for 2 years(then have it set to be adjusted to be within the lower top 10 of the rest of the world after that, it’s a world market)

Lower Capital Gains tax some..

That should encourage investment and create revenues,create more businesses and jobs and keep them here.

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:19 PM

AP needs to just bite the bullet and make the move to working at Huff Po.

twoarmman on September 29, 2008 at 5:19 PM

So there’s still time for me to go no down payment ARM and not make payments and get bailed out for my uhm being abused by the system?

aikidoka on September 29, 2008 at 5:20 PM

Can anyone recommend a good country to move to after B. Hussein is elected? – RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

In all likelihood you will simply have to move to the south, as I suspect it shall rise again.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Tell me again why I am supposed to be panicking????

I don’t mean to be rude but do you think the “I’m okay the rest of the country can go to hell-in-a-handbasket” approach will really not, eventually, affect you adversely?

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM

When hysterical people are panic selling it presents buying opportunities for people who maintain their composure. This is how a bottom is formed, allowing the markets to stabilize.

FloatingRock on September 29, 2008 at 5:02 PM

Exactly. I moved 5% of my portfolio from bonds to stocks today. I’ve been nibbling at it like this for most of the year. I’m down about 12% for the year, but it’ll pay off when the market turns around. Stay diversified and don’t try to hit homeruns.

RedWinged Blackbird on September 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.

Wealth being lost where it should be lost….in a free market….

LimeyGeek on September 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Tell me again why I am supposed to be panicking????

rockmom on September 29, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Because watching good people getting financially destroyed is like watching the lions eat the Christians. Probably good sport, until you see your neighbor, church friends, family friends go broke and live out their lives in destitution.
Hey, but your okay, so what difference do you care…your husband is living off a government job.
When you Peter robs Paul, Peter never complains…

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

I don’t mean to be rude but do you think the “I’m okay the rest of the country can go to hell-in-a-handbasket” approach will really not, eventually, affect you adversely? – SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM

It will affect all of us adversely. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Because watching good people getting financially destroyed is like watching the lions eat the Christians. Probably good sport, until you see your neighbor, church friends, family friends go broke and live out their lives in destitution.
Hey, but your okay, so what difference do you care…your husband is living off a government job.
When you Peter robs Paul, Peter never complains…

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

+100

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:23 PM

“People like Terrye have put their faith in the markets, not realizing they’re fallable.

You are now seeing people getting their just desserts for putting their faith in money.

Divine punishment for divinely stupid folks on this board.

Sakaki on September 29, 2008 at 5:15 PM”

What a moron. Reminds me of someone. I was speaking to a group of liberals. A woman in the back raised her hand and said; “Don’t you think money is the root of all evil?” I replied; “Yes. Just give me all of yours and you will be much happier.”

Star20 on September 29, 2008 at 5:23 PM

The price of oil is supposed to drop because of this. As a consumer, I’m pleased. As an employee at an oilfield services company, I’m stoic.

I refuse to panic or listen to those who motivate with panic. My parents and grandparents went through much worse. They turned out pretty good.

SailorDave on September 29, 2008 at 5:24 PM

I’m not the greatest at economics.. but if One Trillion Dollars was suddenly dumped into the market, wouldn’t that cause inflation to go up?

How I see it is that there is a Value on the market (market meaning anything and everything being bought and sold today) and if the Dollar (that symbolizes the Value) should be increased dramatically by close to a trillion dollars without the Value of the market to adjust for it..

Wouldn’t it negate the Dollar?

DaveC on September 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM

But based on all the crap that the Democrats tried to pull this past week, it’s tough to believe things are really that bad.

BadgerHawk on September 29, 2008 at 5:19 PM

That is what I have a hard time sorting out, this all happened in like 36 hours…this thing that took years, happened in moments.
I am not sure what I believe (I believe I’ll have another drink), I can’t tell who is lying and who is not telling the truth (no typo).

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM

It will affect all of us adversely. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet.

Sorry, in my view a deep economic downturn (assuming of course one will occur) will only pull the country to the left. More government expansion, programs, spending, regulation.

We won’t be biting the bullets, we’ll have to eat them. I’ll do it; I’m not sure most of America will.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM

Hey, but your okay, so what difference do you care…your husband is living off a government job.
When you Peter robs Paul, Peter never complains… – right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:22 PM

I think that anyone who works for the government should be disenfranchised and prohibited from unionizing. Don’t like that? Then don’t work for the government.

Heh…that should help keep gubmint in check.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:16 PM

You dimwits just don’t get it. We do know that not passing a “bailout” will hurt a lot of people. But we also know, based on others’ experiences, going socialist will hurt many more and much worst. Stop being so obtuse.

davidk on September 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Wealth lost?

On paper only. Let’s be real here.

NoDonkey on September 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM

777

Woo Hoo! I win!!

Wait a minute…

CliffHanger on September 29, 2008 at 5:27 PM

Update: The wealth lost today on the market — just today — exceeds the cost of the bailout considerably.

Allahpundit

Aren’t you forgetting its a loss on paper only? No stock trader has lost anything until they sell. While this is historic in terms of a single day loss, its not historic in terms of market loss over several days, remember the dot-com bubble around 2000. NASDAQ lost about half within several months, the DOW hit around upper seven-thousand I believe without checking, what’s the difference how fast it goes down? Where was the bailout for all of those people, of which I was one? I think the market is artificially too high right now, maybe we need a major correction.

I don’t know what the market is going to do over the next few weeks, I don’t think anyone does either. But market adjustments happen all the time. Considering all the hype that’s happened over the last few weeks I think the market did well today. Panic over the bailout bill is not warranted at this point. Are we all getting suckered on this bailout? I don’t know, it might be just another big costly mistake. Are we taking the last of our resources and throwing it on the fire? I don’t know… maybe.

Maxx on September 29, 2008 at 5:28 PM

Heh…that should help keep gubmint in check.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Well you managed to piss off abut 30% of our workforce…

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:28 PM

Sorry, in my view a deep economic downturn (assuming of course one will occur) will only pull the country to the left. More government expansion, programs, spending, regulation. We won’t be biting the bullets, we’ll have to eat them. I’ll do it; I’m not sure most of America will. – SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM

Hell, Steve, we’re tracking left anyway. It’s just a mtter of time until the tipping point is reached.

Fortunately, the red states are armed to the teeth.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:28 PM

You sound like a whiny socialist Allah.

Martin on September 29, 2008 at 5:04 PM

I say he’s weird!
A lunatic!
No doubt he has a beard!
A nervous tic!
A tendency to be whiny?
I’ll bet he’s got some good stock tips
He’s actually quite spinney!
He carries several whips
A lovely lad
A cursed cad
Oh, he’s a saint
He ain’t!
This plucky non-pareil
This lucky, bloody swell
Who is Allahpundit, do tell?

Tav on September 29, 2008 at 5:28 PM

DaveC on September 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM

Deflationary is spiraling out of control as credit (money supply) is evaporating . This is a positive feedback loop as asset values (esp. home prices) depend on credit and yet credit depends on asset prices. This move was counter-deflationary by design. If you thought inflation was bad, wait until you see deflationary depression. You might not have to wait that long, unfortunately.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:25 PM

I feel like I can’t sort all the information being thrown at me. kos hates this bill, but Newt says sign it? Bush and Pelosi on the same team, then she launches a partisan attack on him? Plus it was crafted by the same people (Dodd, Frank) who got us into this mess.

If things are really that serious I’m all on board with the bailout. It’s just tough to know if things are all that serious.

BadgerHawk on September 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM

right2bright on September 29, 2008 at 5:28 PM

*rubbing hands like Montgomery Burns*

Eeeexcellent….

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Deflationary Deflation is spiraling out of control as credit (money supply) is evaporating . This is a positive feedback loop as asset values (esp. home prices) depend on credit and yet credit depends on asset prices. This move was counter-deflationary by design. If you thought inflation was bad, wait until you see deflationary depression. You might not have to wait that long, unfortunately.

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM

phronesis on September 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Can anyone recommend a good country to move to after B. Hussein is elected?

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Mexico, it’ll be deserted…

4shoes on September 29, 2008 at 5:30 PM

Tav on September 29, 2008 at 5:28 PM

Perhaps folks here have been too polite to say anything, but this “witty” poetry of yours sucks.

ManlyRash on September 29, 2008 at 5:31 PM

You dimwits just don’t get it. We do know that not passing a “bailout” will hurt a lot of peo

Then ignore my post. There are a number of other posters here who say the bailout isn’t needed and that the problem is minimal.

Second, a major economic downturn will lead to the country going further to the left and result in legislation that’ll make this bill look like nothing. I.e., the very same thing you say you’re against.

Suggestion: Try to look at things beyond your nose.

If you can.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:31 PM

The price of oil is supposed to drop because of this. As a consumer, I’m pleased. As an employee at an oilfield services company, I’m stoic.

I refuse to panic or listen to those who motivate with panic. My parents and grandparents went through much worse. They turned out pretty good.

SailorDave on September 29, 2008 at 5:24 PM

Oil is tied to the dollar.. IF the dollar increased.. then..

Oil will go down.. IF we print more money the Dollar will lose value thus the Oil price will increase.. Therefore, IF a bailout passes ANWR and ALL Other OIL and other Energy sources and refineries in the US needs to be ramped up immediately..

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Love it. Just love it. We’ll fix the consequences of the law of unintended consequences by violating that law on a massive scale.

I’m all for getting this stupid bill passed, but damn it’s funny to watch normally rational people lose their minds in a panic.

A recession is coming whether we pass this thing or not. Why? Because we’ve been meddling in and looting the free market for too long. And in a final shrill note of irony, the supposed defenders of the free market become its loudest, most thorough detractors.

One of these days, I’m gonna look back on these posts and smile, both at my rank nihilism and at the flower girls of the ultimate unholy marriage: the federal government and the free market.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM

phronesis @ 5:16 PM

You work at an institutional investment firm, managing money and analyzing securities? So? For every gloom and doomer like you they have an analyst with a more optimistic outlook! I hope! I don’t know your track record but I’ll bet that you have never gone through a true down market.

There are ways to make money in good times and bad. You just need to find the opportunities. Go be a hero for your clients!

Vince on September 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM

Hell, Steve, we’re tracking left anyway. It’s just a mtter of time until the tipping point is reached.

Well, if you want believe the cause is lost anyway and want to fight later, I guess that’s a plan.

I’d like to put off the civil war for as long as I can.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM

Yes the DOW lost more value than the bail out, but that was private money (including my own) and not taxpayer (my kids and grandkids) money. The market will recover when the politicians get their crooked hands out of the economy. I’ll gladly pay my share (via my 401K) for this mess. We the people keep sending Pelosi, Frank, Dodd, Reid, Murtha and Shumer back to Congress. We the people should pay for our idiotic choices.

I want to leave my kids a debt free country.

orlandocajun on September 29, 2008 at 5:33 PM

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