Quotes of the day

posted at 10:40 pm on September 29, 2008 by Allahpundit

“When the government fails to pass a socialism bill and the market goes south, let it go south.”

*
“If it doesn’t get fixed in 2 weeks, by January some communities will be isolated due to no diesel for the road crews. In New York.”


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I get the impression that $700 billion is the price of getting an ‘R’ stamped on the door to the oval office. This fiasco (deadlock) only vaults Barry into the chair.

So the question is: Is it worth it?

Barry’s new WPA or $700 billion? Choose wisely.

Limerick on September 29, 2008 at 11:56 PM

Seven Percent Solution on September 29, 2008 at 11:28 PM

Cool- I’m right on the dividing line between Lemon Grove and San Diego proper.

I have to admit I just do not know what to make of all this. I’ve been assiduously reading all I can about this, the pros, the cons- I honestly don’t know what to believe. I do have a starting point: the Dems precipitated this, both years ago when the CRA was passed, and now with what
seems to me to be a manufactured crisis. I have no idea if there is any truth to this, but after seeing some of the other comments, especially here, there does seem to be a very real possibility that the Dems orchestrated this whole magillah. Even if not, with the purchase of Wachovia we may be seeing a bit of light. All I can do is hope that the light doesn’t belong to a train headed our way.

I’m being very simplistic here, for a reason- I have close to zero real knowledge of what just happened. All I know is what I read, such as that Treasury spokesman admitting that the $700B number was just a fire-starter. That certainly put some confidence for the Paulson plan and whatever mutation it takes for me, ya bet.

BillH on September 29, 2008 at 11:56 PM

So the question is: Is it worth it?

Barry’s new WPA or $700 billion? Choose wisely.

Limerick on September 29, 2008 at 11:56 PM

Faulty analysis. If the 700 billion passes; it’ll be because of Bush’s bad policies.

McCain needs to take control of the issue, as I’ve suggested in the past – by adding the fix that will make sure it never happens again. And then plead with people to call into washington to support his plan.

That’s the only way republicans win here.

lorien1973 on September 29, 2008 at 11:58 PM

$60 Trillion problem, the “do absolutely nothing way”

means millions and millions of Americans will Die, in short.

it will be all out “Surivival of the fittest” and all out War if we let this materialize.

Think people, conservatives like Coburn, Forbes and Newt are smart and aren’t complete lunatics but understand the philosophy. And they are sounding the Crisis alarm bells.

60 Trillion range in Credit Default Swaps!!!! TRILLION

we are very close to major companies not being able to get Credit to make Payroll. Think for a minute what that means. Not just not getting paid, but what people will do in reaction.

jp on September 29, 2008 at 11:45 PM

And a $700 billion Treasury laundering facility solves this how?

In reality, the Treasury laundering bailout scheme is the far worse choice geo-politically. When bond markets dislocate and foreign investment bails from buying our T-Bills due to the government consuming bad paper and defaulting on debt, we can’t call on private enterprise organizations to fight our wars or defend our shores.

Perhaps a re-reading of the Constitutional purpose of our government would clear these nuances up for you…

IrishSamurai on September 29, 2008 at 11:59 PM

Think people, conservatives like Coburn, Forbes and Newt are smart and aren’t complete lunatics but understand the philosophy. And they are sounding the Crisis alarm bells.

Yet the polls are going on vacation. If the market drops to nothing and we are all fighting one another for road-kill, do they expect we will be happy about their absence?

Crisis, what crisis?

Bishop on September 29, 2008 at 11:59 PM

“Pols” not polls. Ack.

Bishop on September 30, 2008 at 12:00 AM

I get the impression that $700 billion is the price of getting an ‘R’ stamped on the door to the oval office. This fiasco (deadlock) only vaults Barry into the chair.

Why would this deal guarantee that? or even make it more likely? The way I see the republicans are screwed either way with this.

neuquenguy on September 30, 2008 at 12:00 AM

Hey, a nattering nabobs of negativism story:

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/dont-call-bailout/story.aspx?guid={0A2E0398-2E89-4F7F-B8C7-4150783B1B2E}

PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) — We are nowhere near a depression, so let’s stop talking ourselves into one.
Spiro Agnew’s words of the Nixon era ring true today. The politicians, pundits and, yes, the press, are nattering nabobs of negativism.
For example, in recent weeks, the broadcast and the print media have filed stories replete with scare words. You don’t even have to look at the tabloids to see what I mean.
The front page of the New York Times recently described what it called “chaos” in the financial markets.
Not to be outdone, most of the first section of The Wall Street Journal one day last week was devoted to articles describing the “spreading crisis” in our economy.
And both newspapers have run stories using the word “depression” more times than I care to count.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I am not saying things aren’t serious out there, but another Great Depression? I don’t think so.

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:00 AM

All well and good for Rush, he still has lots of money left. And…that was a snotty thing to say. Makes one think hard about what “true” conservatives are really like inside. I have begun to re-think whether or not I still wish to be part of their ranks.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:01 AM

So if we do nothing, New York suffers.

Thinking….thinking….

Sorry, I’m just a Cowboys fan, not a true misanthrope.
(insert joke here)

connertown on September 30, 2008 at 12:01 AM

lorien1973 on September 29, 2008 at 11:58 PM

I get it, lorien. Barely, but I get where you are coming from. I guess I am wondering if the plebs care. Either way the market is going to be grinding 401k’s under it’s jack boots way past November. How McCain can possibly turn this into a positive is way past my pay grade. (pun intended)

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:01 AM

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:01 AM

Simply by being the only person showing leadership up there.

And by being the only one saying “my plan will fix the problem so it wont happen again” and adding text that’ll revamp the CRA and the underlying causes.

lorien1973 on September 30, 2008 at 12:04 AM

If the market drops to nothing and we are all fighting one another for road-kill,

I’m glad I live by the highway

neuquenguy on September 30, 2008 at 12:04 AM

And a $700 billion Treasury laundering facility solves this how?

In reality, the Treasury laundering bailout scheme is the far worse choice geo-politically. When bond markets dislocate and foreign investment bails from buying our T-Bills due to the government consuming bad paper and defaulting on debt, we can’t call on private enterprise organizations to fight our wars or defend our shores.

Perhaps a re-reading of the Constitutional purpose of our government would clear these nuances up for you…

IrishSamurai on September 29, 2008 at 11:59 PM

I’d prefer no bill, or a Bill passed with a one time tax on “Credit default Swap” contracts to cover the cost of it.

or, Govt. go in and annul these Credit Default Swap contracts in some way. The speculators don’t get filthy rich at our nations peril, crisis averted.

This is about a Credit crisis, the mortgages are a sidenote part of what is going on. Banks failing and credit drying up is bad news.

jp on September 30, 2008 at 12:05 AM

What is the The FBI investigating?

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 11:25 P

Yup, I know. But somehow this doesn’t clinch it, do you think?

petefrt on September 30, 2008 at 12:05 AM

Yup. You can put lipstick on a socialist…

and it’s still gonna tell you it knows better than you how you should live your life.

soundingboard on September 29, 2008 at 11:43 PM

You can put lipstick on a Piglosi, but it’s still just a socialist.

Laura in Maryland on September 30, 2008 at 12:05 AM

lorien1973 on September 30, 2008 at 12:04 AM

Thanks! (you know I’m not ‘lettered’). Every bit of input helps me get a better picture. Barry scares the crap out of me way more then whatever tax burden this bailout brings my way.

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:06 AM

Democrats playing politics with a National Crisis to push an agenda? Sounds like a an orchestrated scheme..

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 10:54 PM

Shocking.

A must-read. This deserves it’s own thread. Holy crap.

NTWR on September 30, 2008 at 12:06 AM

The John McCain idea? I think it’s brilliant. It’s really the only way he can win now.

lorien1973 on September 29, 2008 at 11:30 PM

Yes. I thought it made a lot of sense.

techno_barbarian on September 30, 2008 at 12:07 AM

McCain needs to take control of the issue, as I’ve suggested in the past – by adding the fix that will make sure it never happens again. And then plead with people to call into washington to support his plan.

That’s the only way republicans win here.

lorien1973 on September 29, 2008 at 11:58 PM

It’s my opinion that the dems, and Obama in particular, are the candidates of choice for the big boys on Wall Street. Those big boys are the ones who want 700 billion of our dollars, basically no strings attached.

If the GOP can convince voters of that fact, and frame the debate that way, I think they could win on the issue. The problem is that we have the Bush administration with Wall Street big boys in very prominent positions. Again, if McCain runs hard against the Paulson plan, he’s running against his own party’s White House, and against guys like Mitt Romney

I’m not sure how he does that, to be honest.

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:07 AM

There are some very important things to consider in regards to this financial crisis : localized value-market liquidity.

The fundamentals of sounds financial policy should be based on mutually agreed parameters of volumized focus which take into account not only strategic asset variables, but also contract funding and distributive analysis. The management of said policy parameters need not be researched according to corporate limitations but rather part and parcel of a more distinct regimen of heirarchal institutional advising.

Thank you, I get it know

neuquenguy on September 30, 2008 at 12:07 AM

Don’t know what y’all do for a livlihood, but I’m wondering when the lay offs start and the payroll can’t be met.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:09 AM

Lending is profitable; it’s not going to disappear. If loans become hard to get, the demand for loanable funds rises, and interest rates should go up, making lending more profitable. Does losing several banks to failure or consolidation in the meantime necessarily mean complete societal breakdown? The Great Depression was no picnic, but the gov’t and nation continued to function.

jazz_piano on September 30, 2008 at 12:10 AM

Just freeze the damn market, issue a trillion in Treasury notes and default on Chinese debt.

Speakup on September 30, 2008 at 12:10 AM

Don’t know what y’all do for a livlihood, but I’m wondering when the lay offs start and the payroll can’t be met.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:09 AM

Not before Wednesday, when the Senate votes

neuquenguy on September 30, 2008 at 12:10 AM

The quote from ace’s seems silly. If the problem gets fixed in 4 weeks, why would there be no fuel in NY in January?

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:10 AM

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:10 AM

Carriers. The oil might be on a ship, and that oil might unload, but if the 200 fuel carrier companies can’t push the trucks then the fuel will never reach your local Q-T or Racetrack.

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:12 AM

I’m just saying.

Seven Percent Solution on September 29, 2008 at 11:27 PM

Tinfoil hats actually restricts a person ability to reason. Conspiracy theories involving millions of people, most of them having an I.Q. below average on the bell curve, doesn’t seem remotely possible. People like that must shout out their secrets to feel important.

PrettyD_Vicious on September 30, 2008 at 12:13 AM

I’d prefer no bill, or a Bill passed with a one time tax on “Credit default Swap” contracts to cover the cost of it.

I’m intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Seriously, I don’t understand how you are proposing we tax liability contracts that have inflated asset values (mark-to-market on Level 3 assets, CDS, proves this out) and insolvent counterparties who can’t meet the original payment obligations of the contracts.

This is like applying a foreclosure tax on people who are going through the foreclosure process … they can’t pay their mortgage, but they’re suddenly going to pony up for some new tax on their inability to pay …

or, Govt. go in and annul these Credit Default Swap contracts in some way.

Why do we need the government to go in and nullify these contracts? Simply enforcing “mark-to-market” on off-balance sheet assets (Level 3) solves the problem without spending a dime.

The FED/Treasury should be using the $700 Billion to backstop their obligations at the FDIC/SPIC and providing short-term liquidity to large, non-financial firms (see NOT WALL STREET) who have commercial paper needs. Most small businesses facilitate their credit needs through local/state banks … it is only the really big players that we would open the discount window to … on a very short-term credit crisis basis.

IrishSamurai on September 30, 2008 at 12:14 AM

Don’t know what y’all do for a livlihood, but I’m wondering when the lay offs start and the payroll can’t be met.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:09 AM

That premise justifies trillion dollar bailouts this year and every year in the last few thousand years and the next thousand years.

Buddahpundit on September 30, 2008 at 12:14 AM

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:07 AM

One of the things that people don’t really understand, is that the reason many wall street types support democrats is that they hate competition.

they are usually on top, more competition ruins their bottom line, by affecting prices for the services they provide. So they vote in democrats who – while saying they help the middle class and small businesses – support policies that are designed to crush the middle class and destroy small business.

Look at San Fransisco. Usually considered a Liberal Mecca. The middle class is gone or fleeing. All that is left are the rich (usually super rich) and poor people.

Look at Europe. The middle class is almost non-existant. It is under attack by socialist ideas.

When your ideal liberal/socialist society is near completion, you have a super rich class and oligopolies who grant benefits to the poor people, so they can eek by a living and are wholly dependent on you, but can never do well enough to improve their situation.

That’s always been one of the great things about America. You can improve your situation – make a fortune or lose a fortune. In Europe, you are doomed to the life you are born in, almost without exception.

This 700 billion is the epitome of that. It benefits a few oligopolies, that are “too big to fail” – while smaller well captilized companies are still lending and giving credit. So, you essentially give an unfair advantage to these huge companies – for about $50 million in donations (to democrats), they will get $700 billion in return. And who pays? The middle class.

lorien1973 on September 30, 2008 at 12:16 AM

I hope the Senate can stem this tide–but, since the House controls the cash, I’m wondering how. Cannot believe the incredible incompetence and overwhelming ego that allows House members to put their partisanship ahead of the good of the country(no, make that world)and then march off on holiday with their thumbs in their mouths and leave it for someone else to fix. I don’t care what Party you are, that’s bordering on the criminal.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:20 AM

On another side of this credit crunch is the personal insurance (auto, home, liability), all rates crunched through your credit score. Suddenly, on top of that MrPotterElectricCompany bill you have Allstate and Farmers wagging their finger at you.

This road is full of potholes once the credit is gone.

Sorry folks, Eeyore thinks it is time to invest in seeds.

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:22 AM

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTBhYWJkYTg3OWM3NGMzODNiODZkNTkzOGNmZDdkYzk=

Already posted above but without much explanation. Very worth reading critique of the Paulson-Democrat bill and the conservative rationale for voting against it.

I hope very much that the next time McCain goes before the cameras on this, he has a clear plan and a clear set of marching orders. If he doesn’t, then maybe he’s not of much more use than Obama.

In the military, they instill in officers the understanding that a bad decision is better than no decision. It doesn’t seem like the kids were able to come up with a decision on their own. Time for a grown-up to step in.

My fantasy would be that between now and Thursday McCain has a series of at least doable steps – suspension of mark-to-market rules, FDIC expansion, as examples – and a coherent alternative plan, and that Palin is able to advance and defend it brilliantly in the VP debate. While I’m fantasizing, I’m also conjuring up images of an honest Democrat (yes, I know – but this is a fantasy) who hates Pelosi and Obama only as a PUMA can, who’s ready to blast the whole Liberal Fascist coup apart before it’s voted in.

Hey! A guy can dream!

CK MacLeod on September 30, 2008 at 12:23 AM

Here’s all the HA commenters trying to get out of town.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmf-HCCZYOg&feature=related

Bishop on September 30, 2008 at 12:25 AM

PrettyD_Vicious on September 30, 2008 at 12:13 AM

while i dont buy into conspiracy theories you have to remember that ACORN mortgage help was conditional on doing “voluntary” work for ACORN. they get their claws in deep. but you are right, no way it could happen w/o millions upon millions blabbing to their friends and neighbors while swearing them to secrecy.

chasdal on September 30, 2008 at 12:26 AM

Bishop on September 30, 2008 at 12:25 AM

Nothing like a bit of laughter before Captain Walker takes a hike :)

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:26 AM

I hope the Senate can stem this tide–but, since the House controls the cash, I’m wondering how. Cannot believe the incredible incompetence and overwhelming ego that allows House members to put their partisanship ahead of the good of the country(no, make that world)and then march off on holiday with their thumbs in their mouths and leave it for someone else to fix. I don’t care what Party you are, that’s bordering on the criminal.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:20 AM

Anyone who voted Nay should be opposed.

phronesis on September 30, 2008 at 12:28 AM

Tinfoil hats actually restricts a person ability to reason. Conspiracy theories involving millions of people, most of them having an I.Q. below average on the bell curve, doesn’t seem remotely possible. People like that must shout out their secrets to feel important.

PrettyD_Vicious on September 30, 2008 at 12:13 AM

Not so much a conspiracy. They seem to be doing it in plain sight, PrettyD.

Take a little time and read this, if you haven’t already. I promise it will be worth your time.

Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis

techno_barbarian on September 30, 2008 at 12:31 AM

That’s always been one of the great things about America. You can improve your situation – make a fortune or lose a fortune. In Europe, you are doomed to the life you are born in, almost without exception.

This 700 billion is the epitome of that. It benefits a few oligopolies, that are “too big to fail” – while smaller well captilized companies are still lending and giving credit. So, you essentially give an unfair advantage to these huge companies – for about $50 million in donations (to democrats), they will get $700 billion in return. And who pays? The middle class.

lorien1973 on September 30, 2008 at 12:16 AM

We’re in 100% agreement on that. The only thing is, that you are calling for McCain to run against the dems, the Bushies, and the Romneyites. He can’t win the election that way, IMHO.

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:32 AM

1. It is somewhat pitiful that three of the four folks representing the Democrats/Republicans on the Presidential ticket are from this failure we call a Congress.
2. Just wait and see: 90% of Congressional incumbents will get reelected.
3. Pelosi is a fine example of the reason to not base one’s vote on gender, skin tone, or anything else besides character, intelligence, demonstrated leadership, and relevant experience.

Send_Me on September 30, 2008 at 12:35 AM

Hey! A guy can dream!

CK MacLeod on September 30, 2008 at 12:23 AM

Thanks for the link, and I like your dream :-)

BTW, my bank is in great shape. If anybody is looking for a really strong bank, that stayed that way because they didn’t hand out easy money to those who wouldn’t repay it, look at USAA. If you have a friend in the military who is a USAA customer, you can join as a personal friend/contact of theirs.

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:38 AM

The fact is the House is a disaster and has been for some time. Again, it doesn’t matter which Party, they are all equally without any sense of responsibility or inherent duty to this country and its people. Were it the private sector, most of them would have been fired a long while ago.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:40 AM

So the question is who is the Paladin and who the hell is the Naz’gul?

The plebs aren’t going to wait around for some Ivy League expert to point out the difference. We are Joe Public and we have a right to be chicken.

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 12:45 AM

One other thing I’ve noticed: the folks who are most likely to scream that we must, must pass this bailout seem to be the same folks who look down their noses at Sarah Palin and declare that she should quit as the VP nominee and should be replaced by Mitt Romney.

Frankly, it’s not normal folks like Sarah Palin who have created this panic. It’s NY pinheads who are convinced that their big old highly-educated brains entitle them to 700 billion dollars of US taxpayer dollars to stabilize all of their Wall Street gambling debts.

I know it’s not 100%, but there is a strong overlap in the populations…elitists run strong in both camps.

funky chicken on September 30, 2008 at 12:57 AM

Question.

Did ANYONE in the nation see this meltdown coming 6 months ago?

Lots of people warned of the subprime mess, but just what drove it to sudden crises? Why did banks suddenly stop lending when this problem has been developing over a long period of time?

Did Bush, Paulson, and Bernake, send confidence over the edge, thus drive us into crises? By PUBLICLY saying we were in crises?

Why didn’t they go to Congress on the QT, and get a bailout started before throwing the Public and Banks into disarray by going PUBLIC?

Romeo13 on September 30, 2008 at 1:06 AM

A truly free market could not implode like this. A mixed-economy can, and will, as it contains too many inherent contradictions. It is, as always, the influence (a negative one) of the Left in the market that is the root of the crisis. Rooting that out requires that leaders declare the true nature of the Left, then act to remove the cancer from the system. That won’t happen, because we still grant them “good intentions”.

Halley on September 30, 2008 at 1:11 AM

Romeo13 on September 30, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Finally the great unasked question. Why now? That is the question the plebs are asking. They don’t really care about the answer, they just care about the question. That is why the folks in power are going down. It won’t be congress that goes down, until later. Nope, it will be Louis and his cake baking wife. That’s how they will see it. Take my advice and invest in razor blades and hemp rope.

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 1:18 AM

Tinfoil hats actually restricts a person ability to reason. Conspiracy theories involving millions of people, most of them having an I.Q. below average on the bell curve, doesn’t seem remotely possible. People like that must shout out their secrets to feel important.

PrettyD_Vicious on September 30, 2008 at 12:13 AM
Not so much a conspiracy. They seem to be doing it in plain sight, PrettyD.

Take a little time and read this, if you haven’t already. I promise it will be worth your time.

Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis

techno_barbarian on September 30, 2008 at 12:31 AM

Well……….. nothing like a detailed explanation of the truth, is there PrettyD.

………. no tin foil required, just the ability to read, and understand the facts of where we are today, and the movement that Obama supports to change this country.

Techno, thanks for the link, I was distracted by the Love of my family today, but tomorrow, back on point…..

Seven Percent Solution on September 30, 2008 at 1:25 AM

techno_barbarian on September 30, 2008 at 12:31 AM

Thanks for that. If nothing else, it confirms for me that A) Barry is precious little short of Marxist and
B) The Dems are willingly useful fools.

At first, I was leaning towards the bailout. I’m quite aware of the need for an active credit market. But I’ve read, looked, read some more. I beginning to now think NO bailout.

What a difference a couple of days makes.

BillH on September 30, 2008 at 1:39 AM

Note to all you people that like to fantasize about this Nation surviving another depression.
Please think about this for a minute.
Remember, we rapidly ran out of food, fuel and jobs.

Are we the same society that we were 78 years ago?

If you think that people living in the inner cities will be more restrained and responsible when there is no food, fuel or heat than the residents of N.O. in 2005, you are insane.

If you think that the populace will stand patiently in a soup line for their daily bowl of soup, you are insane.

If you think American farmers can continue to produce food after an economic collapse (please remember, all the technology required to grow food without fuel, fertilizer and electricity is all in a museum [except the Amish, god bless em]), you are insane.

If you think the Federal Government has some huge stockpile of food for the above mentioned soup kitchens, you are insane.

If it all goes down, we will be left with one of two futures, some post apocalyptic bullsh!t or Venezuela.

This Country will not survive another great depression…period.

A. Weasel on September 30, 2008 at 1:46 AM

I don’t know where to post this so it will be appropriate, but I just stumbled on a YouTube that shocks me.

I read earlier (on LGF, and actually a few days before that) about Percy Sutton, a former Manhattan borough president (forgive me if that’s not what they’re called – I don’t want to stop to go back and check) who claimed Barack Obama was funded through Harvard by a man named Khalid Mansour, who is connected to that Saudi prince that Rudy returned the check to.

It all sounds unbelievable, because it’s hard to imagine a yawn from the media about it – but when I was researching it, I found this video of Percy Sutton telling the story of how he first heard about Obama from this guy (a Muslim, obviously), and how he was asked to write a letter to Harvard on Obama’s behalf, which he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EcC0QAd0Ug

He’s an old man now, but he thinks Obama is brilliant and wonderful and a genius and all that, so this is no Obama hater. Not at all. (And by the way, in his wiki, he’s pictured with Malcom X.)

Apparently the Obama camp denied all this through “a spokesman for the Sutton family”, but when the Sutton family was asked to confirm this, they had never heard of the guy – who turned out to be a political consultant from an office in Harlem.

Why doesn’t the media CARE about this stuff?? My God, it’s unbelievable.

capitalist piglet on September 30, 2008 at 1:55 AM

A. Weasel on September 30, 2008 at 1:46 AM

Thank you, Weasel…good points, but I will not be having sweet dreams tonight because of it.

HornetSting on September 30, 2008 at 1:56 AM

“Captain Walker!”

*click*

“Mrs Walker!”

*click*

“Never-neverland!”

Nite all. Remember to seek cover before the sky hits you in the head.

Limerick on September 30, 2008 at 1:59 AM

HornetSting on September 30, 2008 at 1:56 AM

Sorry about the sleep thing, but I just get sick and tired of all the “let it burn” crap, be it the election or the economy.

A. Weasel on September 30, 2008 at 2:03 AM

Romeo13 on September 30, 2008 at 1:06 AM

Romeo, that is a GOOD question. I found myself wondering the same thing…why this week? Was there something that they were not telling us?
I believe it could be a couple of things. You touched on this in your post.
Perception is reality nowadays. If the MSM is telling you the war is bad…most people, not paying attention to anything but the next season of “Dancing” or “Idol”, they will believe what they are told.
If the MSM is vulturing around, saying…the economy is bad, it’s Bush’s fault, and then reporting on a bank that is having problems, that bank will probably fail because when people get a whiff of trouble, they will immediately run to the bank to withdraw their money. They are unaware of the FDIC insurance. They just panic.
Today, there was no “bailout” passed. What happened? The stock market tanked. Would it have tanked if nothing was done or they were still “working” on a solution.
We will never know, but we DO KNOW that the gloom and doom news made many people panic and the market showed it.

Just MHO…very good, Romeo…got my old cogs turning.

HornetSting on September 30, 2008 at 2:06 AM

This Country will not survive another great depression…period.

A. Weasel on September 30, 2008 at 1:46 AM

Yes it will.

In the worst possible scenario the survivors will be strong and self sufficient and the weak and government dependent will be purged.

Guardian on September 30, 2008 at 2:19 AM

Kind of like the financial institutions?
Getting rid of the “dead wood” that was giving out mortgages like lollypops.

HornetSting on September 30, 2008 at 2:24 AM

This Country will not survive another great depression…period.

A. Weasel on September 30, 2008 at 1:46 AM

I’m calling you out………… BullSh%t.

Some will not, most will.

It is the Democrats, Liberals, the MSM and Government Political Elite Bureaucratic Class and possibly you that rely on the the “Government” for your daily meal……. not I. Nor my family, friends, and people of my community.

We see what is up, we see what is going on, we have made preparations not only financially, food, clothing, school, and Country, we are not the one’s pissing in our pants, we just don’t want it to happen, that’s all.

If the Leftist and Obama want the country to fail so they can take power, and if they win, then they win……. but not forever.

The Legion of self determination and “Freedom” motivate those of us who were born with “Individual” rights, but with that comes “Responsibility”.

We are those from the “Boy Scouts”, the football “Team”, the one’s who actually had to read the books and do the “Home Work”, the one’s that went into the Military, or Fire Department, or became a Nurse……. because or not of affirmative action.

We also became Lawyers, Doctors, and CPA’s…….

We are the one’s who fly the “Stars and Stripes” proudly in front of our homes, and fight any HOA that says we can’t….

We are the one’s who vote, and want this Country secured, and no matter how many times you call us racists, we laugh, but get more pissed……….

“great depression” you say…….. well, in a “Free Market”, you take a risk and loose, you loose….. you make a bad political regulation that causes it, you loose……

If you prediction comes true, hard times are ahead, no doubt, but if you show up on my door with your family starving……….. I would still take you in.

Be careful for what you wish for……… I put my trust in the American People that share my belief, Freedom, Personal Responsibility, and although the MSM doesn’t count us in their “polls”, you might wake up on 11/05/08 saying……….. “What the hell happened?”

Seven Percent Solution on September 30, 2008 at 2:27 AM

Look, the story is this.
If you are a bad risk, you will not get a loan:

-If you have a credit rating that matches the amount of money currently sitting in your bank account, you will not get a loan.
-If you cannot show proper documentation, a social security card, a valid drivers license, and proof of income, you will not get a loan.

The sky is not falling, but common sense might actually be making a comeback. At least in regards to credit.

HornetSting on September 30, 2008 at 2:45 AM

Those who will survive are those with family.

Connie on September 30, 2008 at 2:46 AM

If this “Vaults” 0bama into the Presidency, it will prove once and for all:

1: That McCain is too stupid and to politically wimpy and ‘reach across the aisly‘ to deserve to be a Senator, much less President.

2: That every other Republican that has access to a microphone and/or an internet keyboard is too stupid and too weak to deserve to be in power.

3: That at least 51% of the American Voters are so stupid that we, as a whole, don’t deserve anything more than to be ruled by a Marxist Dictator.

I’ve been saying #1 up there for a year now;
Begging McCain to prove me wrong.
He hasn’t so far,
I don’t expect he will in the next month, DESPITE being presented with a golden opportunity to deliver a crushing blow to his opponent with this situation.

The vast majority of us Hot Airians pretty much have been saying the equivalent of #2 above, (with the notable exception of two or three halfway decent Conservative Republican Senators and a dozen or so Conservative Republican Congressmen), since Michelle gave us the forum to express ourselves, so that shouldn’t be a surprise when it happens.

And most of us have pretty much understood #3 above to be nearly true for the last ten years, at least. In the past it was 49.9% of the American Voters that were too stupid to deserve their vote. A .2% minimum change in the dumbing down of America wasn’t all that hard to achieve, so no one should be surprised at that happening.

Given a few REALLY decent Statesman like Conservative leaders, the future would be far from hopeless…. In fact, with the ammunition that The Democrats have given us, the election SHOULD be, COULD be a GOP slam dunk across the board, from President on down to the Nowheresville Town Council.

Too bad we have let the toy (rino) poodles take over the leadership of the Republican party, while the Democrats have let the Marxist junk yard dogs take over theirs.

Yeah, we can blame the media for more than their fair share of it, but if you really want to know who is ultimately to blame, look in the mirror.

We are the ones who have the ACTUAL knowledge and experience in the real world. WE are the ones that built the country, that defend it from external adversaries. We are the Smart Ones, the Tough Ones; WE are the ones who uderstand Economics, we are the ones who are capable of thinking logically….. Yet we let a bunch of liars, political con artists, ivory tower academics, television talking heads and multi-generational welfare bums beat us into submission.

LegendHasIt on September 30, 2008 at 3:28 AM

I actually think most will have no problem standing in a bread line. I’ve seen plenty of long lines of people waiting for government handouts. The only way trouble would start is if they ran out of freebies.

JadeNYU on September 30, 2008 at 3:40 AM

Are we wishing Mitt Romney is our nominee yet? You see, he could have owned Obama in both economic and foreign policy issues. He could have stayed clear of the entire mess in Congress because he is not a member.

McCain and the rigged primary that he and his cronies put on did nothing but ensure that we would not have our best candidate running for President. I dislike McCain from the start and I still dislike him. I just dislike him less than the Marxist ideologue Obama.

Hawthorne on September 30, 2008 at 4:26 AM

Anyone else get the feeling that “jeanie” hails from Chicago?

Browncoatone on September 30, 2008 at 5:05 AM

Do you notice that the media talks about this being the biggest point loss but they completely ignore that fact that in 1987 there was a much bigger percentage loss. This is another form of manipulation that is causing the public to back away.

Cindy Munford on September 30, 2008 at 5:46 AM

Cindy Munford on September 30, 2008 at 5:46 AM

Nice catch Cindy! And that partisan hack Shepard Smith shilled that same line of BS for almost 20 minutes until someone pointed out that in the context of percentage (which is all that matters…other than which types of stocks were affected) this drop was roughly 7%. Not good, but far from what we survived in 1987.

csdeven on September 30, 2008 at 5:58 AM

Cindy Munford on September 30, 2008 at 5:46 AM

That’s pretty much what my dad tried to tell me last night.
When I pressed him, he said “That’s what they said on TV”.
I quickly corrected him, telling him that comparing percentages, this was about a 7% loss, compared to an approximately 20% loss for ’87.

BillH on September 30, 2008 at 6:06 AM

I can’t tell you how sick I am. And I am less worried about the financial stuff then I am about what appears to me to be manipulation. I think Pelosi and Co. let yesterday happen on purpose to scare the people and get them on board. I will be interested in the approval/disapproval polls today. I tried to email my Congressman after eleven last night and the servers were still down. Maybe that’s a good thing. I know I don’t want people to get hurt but I just can’t stand being terrorized into buying a bill of goods. The long and short of it is that I don’t trust these people. They will sell me three times a day to get power and I think this bill is a power grab.

Cindy Munford on September 30, 2008 at 6:07 AM

Do you notice that the media talks about this being the biggest point loss but they completely ignore that fact that in 1987 there was a much bigger percentage loss. This is another form of manipulation that is causing the public to back away.

Cindy Munford on September 30, 2008 at 5:46 AM

Absolutely. On a percentage basis, it is not even in the top 10. In the top 10, there is 1929, 1987. Can anyone name the other 8? Surely they had to be world-ending, great depression causing, buy-your-ammo events. They were all worse than yesterday’s 7% loss. Anybody?

Many have pointed out that it is not the stock market we are worried about…. it is the credit market. All these bozos holding credit default swaps that get triggered. Big whoop. There are companies that aren’t holding them that will go to the fed and grab a nice fat slice of the $630 billion and loan it out. As for those that go under because they dealt in the highly risky derivatives… well… two words.

A final point. Do you think very many people in power now have a vested interest in failure? What if things recover without tagging us for a trillion dollars? Aren’t there an awful lot of people that are going to appear very, very foolish? As far as these morons being experts… well, just how did we get here. And, for the talking heads, didn’t Cramer give Bear Stearns a strong buy the night before the tent was folded? Experts indeed.

CC

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 6:37 AM

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 10:54 PM

You’ve always been a great source of info and humor…
but this time you out did yourself in timing and right on point!

jerrytbg on September 30, 2008 at 6:55 AM

All well and good for Rush, he still has lots of money left. And…that was a snotty thing to say. Makes one think hard about what “true” conservatives are really like inside. I have begun to re-think whether or not I still wish to be part of their ranks.

jeanie on September 30, 2008 at 12:01 AM

You’re not fooling anybody, liberal troll. Go back to DKos.

fossten on September 30, 2008 at 6:56 AM

A final point. Do you think very many people in power now have a vested interest in failure?CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 6:37 AM

Read the article Chakra linked…

jerrytbg on September 30, 2008 at 7:00 AM

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 6:37 AM

Yeah the larger percentage drop in 87 isn’t comparable because was proceeded by an up market. This obviously wasn’t. Plus there still may very well be a bill. Probably a more “socialist” one.

phronesis on September 30, 2008 at 7:01 AM

Why do we need to reform any “mark to market” accounting rules? Why do we need to reduce our corporate taxes … which are some of the highest in the world? Why would we want to reduce Capital Gains to Zero like China? Why would we want to repeal the CRA … which got us here? Why in the hell would we want to actually oil the gears of the capitalist machine when …

We can simply fix this all by throwing $700 billion dollars and some Democratic party oversight and .. voila! We’re all going to be just dandy!!

The money would fix nothing. Nothing. Folks … Republicans lose with a $700B givaway to Wall Street. We simply HAVE GOT to put some free market stimulus into the market and also pass a repeal of the CRA (or at least bring it up) so that the American people know how we got here. Otherwise … they are about to put a guy into the oval office who will make things exponentially worse (Obama).

HondaV65 on September 30, 2008 at 7:04 AM

they are about to put a guy into the oval office who will make things exponentially worse (Obama).
HondaV65 on September 30, 2008 at 7:04 AM

Agreed… and down right scary!

jerrytbg on September 30, 2008 at 7:08 AM

Kudlow had a good panel on last night, including Steve Forbes and Larry Lindsey, and others. Their conclusion, (after much debate about the economy, and about the possibility of coming up with a political solution a few weeks before an election) was that an alternative “solution” can be found by using the power of the FDIC–as was just illustrated in the marriage of weak Wachovia to stronger Citi– to do a few things immediately:

1. Remove limits on FDIC insurance so that people aren’t running around moving assets from bank to bank

2. Insure MM accounts outside of banks.

3. Remove mark to market accounting rules for banks.

4. Maintain short selling ban longer on financials.
5. Return the uptick rule when short selling resumes.

Their point was to make it absolutely 100% clear that there is a safe place for people to keep their money, and that there is no reason for sudden withdrawals or flights to supposedly safer treasuries from cash.

They said the FDIC through the FEd can inject as much money as is necessary into banks directly, bypassing the Congress entirely, and maintain the soundness of the system and unleash bank lending again.

There are problems with this system. The FDIC is the government. Essentially it would be picking winners and loseres among banks, deciding who to prop up and who to let go. That’s usually a market decision which is even now being made by the gov’t.

In any event, their suggestion is that such a temporary solution can allow banks and the economy to hobble along for months, maybe longer, but at least until we have a chance to determine the election outcome and have a new gov’t in place.

In my mind, this could work. Furthermore, it shows that with some add’l time and thinking, alternative plans can emerge.

Finally, it occurred to me for the first time last night that the immediate rush to pass the existing plan was to ensure that our present system of easily available credit is maintained. That’s the system that allows everyone to ride in new cars (anyone remember used cars??), live in houses that are bigger than needed and which people can’t really afford, have granite counters, etc. etc.

Who says we really want to preserve the existing system?

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:09 AM

Read the article Chakra linked…

jerrytbg on September 30, 2008 at 7:00 AM

Yes, I read a “Cloward & Plivens” article yesterday. A newer part of that equation of either manufactured or constant crisis are the 24 hour news channels. They play right into this theme. The way they cover an issue is to maximize the negative potential to increase viewership. This marketing approach plays right into the hands of this theory. I saw two things on CNBC yesterday and one on Fox Saturday that were very revealing. A talking head had the audacity to point out that the current situation may not be as big a problem as people are saying. Then, each one was interrupted in the middle of making their point and it was the last words they spoke. Didn’t fit the program.

CC

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 7:14 AM

Btw, Here’s a good explanation of mark to market. What was written at Ace was confusing in my mind.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:16 AM

A newer part of that equation of either manufactured or constant crisis are the 24 hour news channels.

Very few people have even a basic, general economics and account education. It’s a giant hole in many people’s otherwise good education. The MSM is not only not immune to this problem, but so many were liberal arts majors that they are awash in economic illiterates. The same is true of most politicians, who usually have a legal background.

This is not meant as an accusation. Just an explanation of how the MSM and the pundits, and pols. simply don’t know what to think, and so the debate is far less useful on this issue than on others. My $.02.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:19 AM

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:16 AM

Eliminating mark to market has been suggested several places. From my view, I think it would be a very bad move. Right now, using that method requires that some investments reflect their proper market value. To now allow them to put some other value simply for the purpose of doctoring their financials would be to hide a portion of the truth from potential investors. There has been too much of that already.

CC

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 7:24 AM

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 7:24 AM

The headwind is building, and its coming. I understand your concerns–it’s what prompted the rule in the first place.

But here we have a non-functioning market that is valuing ALL of these subprimes at zero. That is not reality either.

And so the banks must carry them at zero, making their balance sheets look like failed companies.

I’m sure you would agree that there is value in these properties, even salvage value and land value for those that will never sell. Many are actually lived in with people still paying mortgages.

The market is efficient, over time. At any one point in time however, it can be distorted.

(btw, if the value were truly zero, go see if you can get a house for $1 and make someone’s day).

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:29 AM

I have 2 questions:

1) Why would it be a disaster if we waited 30 days before taking action? (I know what the pundits are saying and I choose not to believe them.) Any ideas?
2) What is going to stimulate the economy and create jobs?

huckleberryfriend on September 30, 2008 at 7:30 AM

Eliminating mark-to-market would be a good step, but i doubt it would be sufficient at this point. We survived without for a long time. Any attempts to more credit standards tigher at this point in time would only exacerbate the crisis, in my opinion.

phronesis on September 30, 2008 at 7:31 AM

To now allow them to put some other value simply for the purpose of doctoring their financials would be to hide a portion of the truth from potential investors. There has been too much of that already.

I should have added that you should ask the WaMu and Wachovia shareholders to name just two whether they would be better off without mark to market, or where they are now.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM

The market is efficient, over time. At any one point in time however, it can be distorted.

(btw, if the value were truly zero, go see if you can get a house for $1 and make someone’s day).

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:29 AM

Indeed it is what makes all this “DDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!” ranting so funny. Look it’s like this Wall $treet allowed itself to get rolled on valuation of risk because of political pressure and now wants a handout for their trouble. I say “no” there are plenty of financial institutions that refused to play the CRA game as hard as the megas and they are the ones you can call on the phone and will say to you, “nah we have money to lend”.

They also don’t tend to have a lot of 60:1 leverages on the books.

sven10077 on September 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM

We survived without for a long time. Any attempts to more credit standards tigher at this point in time would only exacerbate the crisis, in my opinion.

phronesis on September 30, 2008 at 7:31 AM

Please re-state this. I have appreciated your comments btw.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:33 AM

Banks up big in premarket. Wb +13, BAC +5, C +5, MS +5

huckleberryfriend on September 30, 2008 at 7:33 AM

I should have added that you should ask the WaMu and Wachovia shareholders to name just two whether they would be better off without mark to market, or where they are now.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM

Indeed. And any more offloading of assets would cause more insolvencies thanks to mark to market.

phronesis on September 30, 2008 at 7:34 AM

I should have added that you should ask the WaMu and Wachovia shareholders to name just two whether they would be better off without mark to market, or where they are now.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM

WaMu got away with eating up Providian which was probably a stronger business truth be told. They did so by successfully hiding their risk valuation models because “everyone does it”. Maybe if WaMu had worried more about the market and less about the CRA Awards dinenrs they’d be the ones I’d be making my CC payments to instead of Chase.

sven10077 on September 30, 2008 at 7:34 AM

Because it should be obvious to everyone by now that it was an orchestrated economic terrorism attack on the market and insider trading by the Democrats that caused this for the Democrats to Gain power.. and to make the Economy an Issue during the election..

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Why did the Democrats BLOCK Regulations of Fannie And Freddie ALL THE TIME?

Who HELD LOTS OF Stocks in Lehman?(A guy named Auchi, with ties to Rezko) Lehman is Obama’s Largest Contributor.. at over 700,000

Who is on Obama’s Campaign Staff? Jim Johnson and Raines..(Fannie Mae) Hmmm

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 11:17 PM

Thanks to you the The Big Old Dog for lots of pertinent information. This timing and the players are very suspicious.

For all of the demonization that Dems latch on to Rove, nobody pays any attention to Rahm Emanuel. He has been the qsilent orchestrator of the Dem takeover. Watch his behavior in that Pelosi and Friends post-vote presser. He is deadpan or putting his finger to his lips or “hiding” behind whoever has the microphone. Don’t tell me that this fformer Goldman Sachs executive and Paulson crony doesn’t know how to play out this “crisis”.

onlineanalyst on September 30, 2008 at 7:36 AM

Banks up big in premarket. Wb +13, BAC +5, C +5, MS +5

huckleberryfriend on September 30, 2008 at 7:33 AM

What?

Can’t be Chrissty Matthews and Shep Smith both swear the end is nigh….

//sarc

people refuse to grasp that in a turbulent market there will always be guerillas who bucked trends and profit when the market forces implode the wild eyed risk takers….

Banks are no different.

sven10077 on September 30, 2008 at 7:36 AM

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:29 AM

But you are really talking about two different things. The security that is the bundle of mortgages has no real market value when no one wants to buy it. Obviously, I agree that the underlying collateral for the security (the homes) do have some value… but they aren’t trying to sell the homes.

There are already companies snapping these bundled mortgages up in the same manner a corporate raider grabs companies when their break-up value greatly exceeds their current market value. That process should be allowed to continue. I fish offshore and I’ve seen that sharks do a very good job of clearing the seas of the weak and wounded.

CC

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 7:36 AM

Indeed it is what makes all this “DDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!” ranting so funny. Look it’s like this Wall $treet allowed itself to get rolled on valuation of risk because of political pressure and now wants a handout for their trouble. I say “no” there are plenty of financial institutions that refused to play the CRA game as hard as the megas and they are the ones you can call on the phone and will say to you, “nah we have money to lend”.

They also don’t tend to have a lot of 60:1 leverages on the books.

sven10077 on September 30, 2008 at 7:32 AM

This is 1/2 the story, and accurate. The question I think now is what kind of system to we want to resurrect? Do we want to save most of what we had and try to return to the previous system, or do we want something different. My guess is that the bailout bill tries to preserve the existing system.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:36 AM

Banks up big in premarket. Wb +13, BAC +5, C +5, MS +5

huckleberryfriend on September 30, 2008 at 7:33 AM

BAC, Wells, Citi, JP Morgan. These are the survivors– the big 4. The gov’t will not allow them to fail under any circumstances. That is the conventional thinking now.

Think of them as the new Fannie–GSE’s. Too big to fail.

That’s why they’re up!

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:38 AM

This is 1/2 the story, and accurate. The question I think now is what kind of system to we want to resurrect? Do we want to save most of what we had and try to return to the previous system, or do we want something different. My guess is that the bailout bill tries to preserve the existing system.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:36 AM

If the press were Dutch and not in the marxist’s pocket I’d say let it fall and start over with the most sensible hybrid of Teddy and Frank Roosevelt regulation we could get, but things being what they are we are in for unless I miss my guess a series of 700 billion dollar “lifelines” to keep this frankenstein monster moving….

pity really.

sven10077 on September 30, 2008 at 7:39 AM

I’m no genius on the subject, like most of us but , it seams to me that the fast pace news cycle and emotion is driving most of this…that’s obvious…. After reading that CPA’s analysis, why not remove the mark to market rule and value any given mortgage day to day on it’s long term value…I’m sure there is some sound computer model that could justify this approach. Hard assets have always increased in value.
Am I missing the point completely? This seams like a nobrainer!

jerrytbg on September 30, 2008 at 7:40 AM

BAC, Wells, Citi, JP Morgan. These are the survivors– the big 4. The gov’t will not allow them to fail under any circumstances. That is the conventional thinking now.

Think of them as the new Fannie–GSE’s. Too big to fail.

That’s why they’re up!

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:38 AM

Yeah I may get on the phone with them and see if they’ll consolidate my liquid debt just to play it safe….

they were just handed a silent “go as risky as you want when the dust settles” card…

sven10077 on September 30, 2008 at 7:41 AM

But you are really talking about two different things. The security that is the bundle of mortgages has no real market value when no one wants to buy it. Obviously, I agree that the underlying collateral for the security (the homes) do have some value… but they aren’t trying to sell the homes.

You don’t have to sell the homes to recognize their “intrinsic” value. You just assigned some value to them yourself, and therefore the mortgage. But the banks record that value as zero. Don’t see how that’s realistic. And some realism is what mark to market was intended to provide. If it doesn’t, there must be some other way to assign value.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:41 AM

My guess is that the bailout bill tries to preserve the existing system.

JiangxiDad on September 30, 2008 at 7:36 AM

Bingo! And those in financial power that are part of that system. I suspect we will come out with a system that is remarkably similar (if not identical) to the current system but with updated regulations and a very large pile of money moved from one wallet to another.

CC

CapedConservative on September 30, 2008 at 7:42 AM

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