McCain: “It’s time to fix the problem”

posted at 6:05 pm on September 29, 2008 by Allahpundit

Nothing much of interest here, really, except an obligatory shot at Obama near the end. Now would have been the perfect time for Maverick to suspend his campaign to deal with the crisis. Too bad he played that card last week.

Meanwhile, Ace is apologizing to his readers for (a) listening to numerous experts who are telling him we’re in a gravely serious situation and (b) wanting to do something about it.



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Country first. Good for John.

RBMN on September 29, 2008 at 6:07 PM

More bipartisanship. *barf*

lodge on September 29, 2008 at 6:08 PM

It is strange that a problem so catastophic has no one mentioning accountability. You don’t solve a problem by putting out a fire, you solve it by stopping the fire from ever starting. Throwing money at a problem rarely works. It only delays the final outcome.

volsense on September 29, 2008 at 6:09 PM

So when they suddenly become economic alarmists, I’m alarmed.

Yet another damned appeal to authority.

Can no one make an argument for it on the merits?

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:10 PM

Thank you

Now why couldn’t McCain have been that articulate about the bailout in last Friday’s debate?

More of this please

Outlander on September 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM

The market lost more today that then entire cost of the bailout.

Brilliant.

profitsbeard on September 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Yet another damned appeal to authority.

Can no one make an argument for it on the merits?

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:10 PM

Because how many of us are economist and know the specifics? Therefore, you defer to professionals. There’s nothing wrong with that.

terryannonline on September 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM

except an obligatory shot at Obama near the end.

What was the jab… I practically fell asleep listening to him and zoned out, and must have missed it. Can someone just tell me what it was so I don’t have to endure any more of that?

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM

They have made the argument on the merits. You’re not listening. When you’re having a heart attack, what are the merits of spending $800 on a two-mile ambulance trip that should cost 80 cents?

RBMN on September 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM

what is Jack from Lost (Matthew Fox) doing on wall street? Count to 5 Kate! See: Image on CNN homepage.

JoeBrooks on September 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Ace is right.

I’m not sure what some people are thinking here.

An economic downturn will lead to the very statism we want to prevent. But, I guess if you think all is lost anyway or this will all sort itself out, it doesn’t matter.

The plan is imperfect. The alternative is, in my view, worse.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

That was a good speech.

JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

This is the guy who was going to deliver the Republican members and try to take credit for the changes made to the bill (good ones too) which still failed…

lexhamfox on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

For all his good intentions, McCain is now grasping at straws. He half-assed came out as a leader last week but only looked like one in comparison to Obama. Which, of course, no one cares about since people love Obama because of his skills at community organizing — which trumps leadership these days.

Richard Crenna is dead, right? We need him now:

“It’s over Johnny… it’s over!”

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

McCain should announce he’s suspending his Saturday night dinner reservations indefinitely for the duration of the crisis.

What a phony s-bag…

sanguine4 on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

To Senator McCain,
One word.

Thank you.

Mcguyver on September 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

No the market did NOT lose more than the bailout. Prior to this bailout, they bailed out AIG, seized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and bailed out 3 other major firms. If you add those costs along with all those like Cavuto and Trump and about 400+ economist’s opinions, you would know that this bailout has no ending price tag and most say it will be in the TRILLIONS! When they bailed out Behr-Sterns, were we not told then THAT was necessary and it should STOP the bleeding? Did not work! $700 billion is just the BEGINNING!

freeus on September 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Too little, too late, Mr. McCain…

Wyznowski on September 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Throwing money at a problem rarely works. It only delays the final outcome.

volsense on September 29, 2008 at 6:09 PM

That’s right, like throwing money at cancer treatment: it only delays the ultimate outcome.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Can no one make an argument for it on the merits?
spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:10 PM

The argument is that you need to buy up MBSs to reinject liquidity into the short term capital markets (i.e. commercial paper) to prevent a Domino effect that could trigger a widespread recession or depression.

A good criticism of the plan can be found at this CATO page.

Outlander on September 29, 2008 at 6:17 PM

The sad thing is, leadership will be defined by his ability to get the Republicans to cave into Democrat demands.

Valiant on September 29, 2008 at 6:18 PM

What was the jab… I practically fell asleep listening to him and zoned out, and must have missed it. Can someone just tell me what it was so I don’t have to endure any more of that?

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Eh, nevermind… I suffered back through a bit and found it. It was a pretty light “jab”, before saying it’s not time to point fingers. As I explained in a thread earlier – the very fact that he isn’t joining in the blame game, may be what costs him the election. He’s not saying anything exciting enough to make news, while the Dems are throwing bombs left and right. These are the clips we’ll see, and these sway opinions. McCain is allow himself to be beaten the same way Bush let his poll numbers fall over the years – by laying there and taking it, because they think they’ll come off better by staying “out of the mud”… Both men don’t recognize how powerful the Dems’ are with their media allies.

RightWinged on September 29, 2008 at 6:19 PM

Because how many of us are economist and know the specifics? Therefore, you defer to professionals. There’s nothing wrong with that.

terryannonline on September 29, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Yet the professional punt to other professionals. It’s turtles all the way down. The very first argument from Bush was essentially this:

“Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke both said we’re in deep doo doo if we don’t pass this, so let’s pass this.”

Every argument for it since has been of the same form with different names inserted as the expert of choice.

That is not an argument. That’s a rhetorical tactic.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Yet another damned appeal to authority.

Can no one make an argument for it on the merits?

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:10 PM

You must be new to using logical fallacies in argument. Appeal to authority is not only common but necessary where the arguer does not have primary authority.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Ace is not right. He’s a panic filled albino bitch. Who deserves everything that comes to him. He’s a worrier.

Frankly, I’m tired of everyone out here saying that we need to save this. We don’t.

Sakaki on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Just as “fixing” immigration didn’t necessitate passing the piece of crap bill they tried to ram through the system, so does “fixing” this problem mean that we don’t have to pass the first lousy bailout bill they put on the table.

Can’t people admit there’s a problem without being reactionary morons about it? Yes there’s a problem, but that doesn’t mean we just throw money at congress as quickly as we can until the problem goes away.

World B. Free on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

A good criticism of the plan can be found at this CATO page.

Outlander on September 29, 2008 at 6:17 PM

Thank you.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

I’m sorry, but too many people here have no idea what the hell they are talking about. This isn’t about saying “Wall Street” this is about saving the credit market. If banks don’t lend, the economy will STOP! That means company can’t use their line of credit to purchase new goods or better yet pay their employees. But keep on clinging.

No money for buying cars, 50 inch LCD TV’s and no money for buying money for houses. Watch mortgage rates spike and the value of houses plummet.

So keep on clinging to your Ron Paul economic world view. All you people are going to do is help create European style socialism.

Pathetic

Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Appeal to authority is not only common but necessary where the arguer does not have primary authority.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

Bull shite. An argument that cannot be made without an appeal to authority is not an argument. It’s a rhetorical tactic to achieve a desired outcome.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Also, the appeal to authority is not a logical fallacy. It’s an informal fallacy, i.e. not related to logic.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:23 PM

The market lost more today that then entire cost of the bailout.

Brilliant.

profitsbeard on September 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Heh. Fail. The entire cost of Paulson’s laundering scheme ,if it had passed, would have far surpassed today’s market decline ($700 Billion is the amount that the treasury can use to launder the bad assets … AT ANY ONE TIME… Section 115 of the Bill. Reading comprehension is your friend.)

And the market decline is/was going to happen anyway as we deflate all the bullcrap phantom wealth created in the last 15 years…$700 Billion can’t stop the unwinding, it can only kick the timebomb further down the road…

IrishSamurai on September 29, 2008 at 6:23 PM

I think McCain blew it big time on this one. He had a chance. But blew it.

Intrade has been steadily climbing while my optimism has been steadily declining.

p0s3r on September 29, 2008 at 6:24 PM

The market lost more today that then entire cost of the bailout.

Brilliant.

profitsbeard on September 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Sorry, I don’t mean to single you out but this is going to get so tiring. The cost of the bailout is for assets that are not worth the cost of the bailout on the market today. We are being led to believe that the cost of the bailout will somehow be recouped by the geniuses in government who are going to resell at a higher cost somewhere down the road.

Comparing that to the swings in the market is just typical of a society hungry for soundbites. They have no significance to one another.

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 6:24 PM

Would have been hysterical if he had just told Paulson to forget about getting anything intelligent out of this Congress and go ahead and fix the credit crisis through the Fed and the FDIC, which already have almost unlimited authority to protect depositors and inject liquidity into the system. He could then have called on the people to vote out everyone in the House and send him to the White House with a new Congress that will grow up and fix our financial system.

One can dream, can’t she?

rockmom on September 29, 2008 at 6:24 PM

“Our leaders failed to act” ?

You’re one of the leaders, McPhoneitin. If you’re not up to it, just let everyone know.

However, he does get big points for not pointing fingers across the aisle.

Dave Rywall on September 29, 2008 at 6:25 PM

The market lost more today that then entire cost of the bailout.

Brilliant.

profitsbeard on September 29, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Shareholder money is not the same as taxpayer money.

Yes, there’s a problem and it’s a big one. Stocks that drop due to panic selling tend to regain ground relatively fast once cooler heads prevail.

Hollowpoint on September 29, 2008 at 6:26 PM

That’s right, like throwing money at cancer treatment: it only delays the ultimate outcome.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Wow. Just wow. This is what it has come down to? Comparing government monetary policy to possible terminal illness. You can do better. Just think a little.

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 6:26 PM

McCain should announce he’s suspending his Saturday night dinner reservations indefinitely for the duration of the crisis.

What a phony s-bag…

sanguine4 on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

Obama should quit getting his laundry done for the duration. That’s where he was on Saturday:

What was Obama doing?

He was at a political rally then off, in his own words, to worry about his dry cleaning.

“It’s just trickling down a little bit here. That’s O.K. I’m going to have to get my dry cleaning going too.”

Maybe had Obama been more engaged, the 95 Democrats in the House who voted against the plan would have passed it.

How is it McCain’s fault? Seriously . . . Obama was staying in a luxury hotel, campaigning, and getting his dry cleaning done instead of working to get the Democrat votes necessary to pass the plan.

95 Democrats voted against Barack Obama’s position and it is John McCain’s fault?

I guess that is heavy starch we can believe in.

HT: Redstate

Wethal on September 29, 2008 at 6:27 PM

I’m sorry, but too many people here have no idea what the hell they are talking about. This isn’t about saying “Wall Street” this is about saving the credit market. If banks don’t lend, the economy will STOP! That means company can’t use their line of credit to purchase new goods or better yet pay their employees. But keep on clinging.

Thank you.

But you’ll get heat for this, I’m sure.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:27 PM

Time to fix the problem? What’s the definition of the problem? That everyone’s ranging from uncomfortable to suicidal because of the economy, OR because Dems and their cronies have been making a killing off the taxpayers and they don’t want the gravy train to stop?

THAT’S THE PROBLEM. FIX IT, JOHN.

AubieJon on September 29, 2008 at 6:27 PM

When will it be the time to blame the Dems, Mac? After Barry wins the White House?

Buy Danish on September 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM

McCain: “It’s time to fix the problem”

Nothing much of interest here, really, except an obligatory shot at Obama near the end.

Fix which problem? The problem with the economy or the problem that McCain is now well behind in the polls? If it was the former I don’t think that he would have included taking a shot at Obama, as that will just fire up even more partisanship and blaming the other side and hence make it less likely that any bill will pass any time soon, so unless that is what he wants it must be the latter.

KentAllard on September 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM

You’re one of the leaders, McPhoneitin. If you’re not up to it, just let everyone know.

However, he does get big points for not pointing fingers across the aisle.

Hey, your party runs the place. Where’s the leadership from your side?

Obama? Pelosi? Reid?

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM

Remember a couple of months ago what McCain said about Gore’s insane idea that we could be off all fossil fuels in less than 10 years:
“If VP Gore said it, I believe it”

McCain is a Lifer suck-ass and always has been.

TexasJew on September 29, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Yes, by all means, let’s prop up socialism, John./s/

Country First my ass.

Fletch54 on September 29, 2008 at 6:29 PM

When will it be the time to blame the Dems, Mac? After Barry wins the White House?

Buy Danish on September 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM

He is being a leader, unlike Nancy. There will be plenty of time for politics after a bill gets passed.

Mark1971 on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

Bull shite. An argument that cannot be made without an appeal to authority is not an argument. It’s a rhetorical tactic to achieve a desired outcome.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Oh, jeez, my bad. An argument without factual basis is just a rhetorical tactic. A factual basis is by nature an appeal to authority, since unless you argue from primary authority, any ‘fact’ you cite is an appeal to the authority of another. Now, I’m a little rusty, and perhaps not using the terminology exactly right, but don’t go making enemies where you don’t need to.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

Meanwhile, Ace is apologizing to his readers for (a) listening to numerous experts who are telling him we’re in a gravely serious situation and (b) wanting to do something about it.

No, he’s apologizing for rejecting the free market and fiscal conservatism, like every Representative who voted “Yea” today should be. I do appreciate that he disclosed his credit and stocks, though. I’d like to see that disclaimer on every post at The Corner today, too.

It's Vintage, Duh on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

That is not an argument. That’s a rhetorical tactic.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

So what if just a rhetorical tactic? Perhaps, the tactic works because there is truth in it. I don’t know who else am I suppose to listen during an economic crisis? Should I ask a dentist what will work to fix the economy?

terryannonline on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

If you have rats in your house chewing up the wiring, tearing holes in the furniture,, you don’t just keep buying new wiring and new furniture. You smoke out the rats and you close up the holes so they don’t get in again.
We’ve got rats in the House and they should not be allowed to spend anymore of our money! Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have got to be fixed and some Democrats need to go to jail or at least resign!!
Nationalizing our economy because thieves in congress are wrecking the markets is not a fix! We are just exchanging thieves! Or rather,, we are just making them legal!
Sooner or later, the markets will correct themselves!
People are not going to sit around broke forever. Builders are going to find ways to build and investors are going to find ways to invest!
Zero Capital Gains and cheap government/wall street insurance and loans should at least be tried.
We should not trust any of these people!
And we should certainly not allow one man,, the Treasury Secretary to have to stated goal of ensuring every American’s economic stability! My God,, let a liberal Supreme Court get a hold of that one!!!
A chicken in every pot and one car in every garage!
If you have two and your unemployed free loading neighbor has none, well, the Treasury Secretary, with the full weight of the law, will even it all out!!

JellyToast on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Here’s a video of Pelosi after the vote blaming the Republicans and praising Frank et. al. AGAIN.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3119021&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

JiangxiDad on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

I’m sorry, but too many people here have no idea what the hell they are talking about. This isn’t about saying “Wall Street” this is about saving the credit market. If banks don’t lend, the economy will STOP! That means company can’t use their line of credit to purchase new goods or better yet pay their employees. But keep on clinging.
Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

Unfortunately those who crafted the bill also have no idea what they’re talking about. They don’t know what these securities they want to buy are worth. They don’t know how much money it will actually require. They don’t know what the long term cost will be if and when the securities are sold.

That so many people are against it isn’t because they’re stupid and/or uninformed- it’s because the government has done a horrible job in explaining why it’s necessary to spend $700 billion dollars- about $2300 for every man, woman and child in the country- to solve the problem.

Hollowpoint on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

CATO is worthless in situations like this. Where the hell were they five years ago when this problem could’ve been fixed with position papers? But going to CATO now, in a crisis, is like going to an architect to roof your house three hours before the thunderstorm is coming. The architect can draw a picture your roof, but he can’t get it covered in three hours.

RBMN on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Name names, jerk off. McCain is really hosing me lately.

I’m sick of this play it nice crap.

You have the ear of the nation. Use it.

Dammit. What is his problem?

lorien1973 on September 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:27 PM

Thanks.

There is time and place for political conviction. This time is not one of them.

Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM

That’s right, like throwing money at cancer treatment: it only delays the ultimate outcome.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Wow. Just wow. This is what it has come down to? Comparing government monetary policy to possible terminal illness. You can do better. Just think a little.

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 6:26 PM

Eating just delays the ultimate outcome too, so I guess trailboss will stop eating now. Myself, I’ll pass.

Murphy9 on September 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM

Now that McCain’s sunk, can anyone identify who in the GOP is worth watching anymore?

I’m in the Ohio district just south of Boehner’s district. He’s seemed pretty useless for a while now. My representative is Jean Schmidt. She’s not much; she just happens to be less useless than her Democratic opponent.

I was hoping that a McCain administration would get Schmidt’s predecessor, Rob Portman, back on the political map. So much for that hope. Ohio’s senators are George Voinovich (R) and Sherrod Brown (D). A Hillary Democrat (Strickland) is governor ran an inept William Howard Taft descendant out of office in disgrace in 2006. So I’d say don’t look to Ohio for any rising stars.

Anyone got anyone else to be hopeful about? This is really discouraging. I really cannot fathom an Obama administration, but it’s now starting to sink in.

BuckeyeSam on September 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM

I’m sorry, but too many people here have no idea what the hell they are talking about. This isn’t about saying “Wall Street” this is about saving the credit market. If banks don’t lend, the economy will STOP! That means company can’t use their line of credit to purchase new goods or better yet pay their employees. But keep on clinging.

No money for buying cars, 50 inch LCD TV’s and no money for buying money for houses. Watch mortgage rates spike and the value of houses plummet.

So keep on clinging to your Ron Paul economic world view. All you people are going to do is help create European style socialism.

Pathetic

Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:22 PM

What is pathetic is the mindset that people are entitled to their 50 inch plasma screens and even the ability to buy houses. NOTHING has been done to punish or prevent future episodes from occuring.

Yeah, most of us understand how the credit markets work and we also understand how the welfare system works. The two are getting married this week one way or another.

One overlooked aspect to this whole matter is how the dollar is getting stronger and the Fed is using their resources to pump money into the system where and when needed. The way it should be. Not the government playing repo man and reselling homes at pennies on the dollar.

Two weeks ago we were told, ‘Next week, payroll won’t be met.’ Last week, after payrolls were met we were told, “Next week, payroll won’t be met.’ Wonder what we will be told this week:

“No really, next week, payroll won’t be met.”

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 6:34 PM

Dammit. What is his problem?

lorien1973 on September 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM

He suddenly realized he rather not be President during the Great Depression II and is playing to lose?

TheBigOldDog on September 29, 2008 at 6:34 PM

The market lost more today that then entire cost of the bailout.

No taxpayer money was lost today. The ones that lost today are the idiots who panicked and sold.

Let me remind everyone that you only lose money if you sell at a loss. If you have a solid portfolio for the long term, you are fine. Of course, if you were planning on retiring in the next month or two, then you probably should put it off for a few months, anyway. While this is the largest point drop in the history of the DOW, as far as a percentage loss, it isn’t even in the top 15. Panic if you want to, then a bargain hunter (maybe even me) who doesn’t panic will pick up your sales at a bargain price and make a few bucks in the next few years …

gstrickler on September 29, 2008 at 6:34 PM

Hey, your party runs the place. Where’s the leadership from your side?

Obama? Pelosi? Reid?

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:28 PM
——-
I said it in another thread but I’ll say it again: both sides fu*ked this up royally. I have plenty of blame for both sides of the aisle.

Dave Rywall on September 29, 2008 at 6:34 PM

The plan is imperfect. The alternative is, in my view, worse.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:15 PM

People draw lines at different times. I’ve drawn mine, admittedly in a somewhat arbitrary fashion, this weekend. Others drew their own lines long ago and thought that I was nuts for holding on. Others feel as though that as bad as this bill is there is still hope that the frauds in D.C. will get it right this time, or that if they don’t, it will at least give us more time to do “something” in the future, thus they have yet to draw their own line but will do so eventually. And even in that time in the future, when those who now hold out hope in supporting this bill, finally draw their own lines, there will still be others thinking that they are “crazy” and that there is still something left to salvage, and that they are being reckless if they don’t support x y or z.

Weight of Glory on September 29, 2008 at 6:37 PM

A word of caution.

I think its really important to understand why the Treasury wants the bill by reminding folks what it is not designed to do.

Paulson will tell you flat out that this bailout is not designed to prevent the market from declining. He knows, and most other market players know, that there is a real strong possibility that the markets on average are going to decline somewhere between 35-50%. Taken to the extreme that puts the Dow at 7000 and the S$P at 800. We have a long ways to go. The markets withstand all the time. What Paulson doesn’t want to occur is a crippling of the economy.

What this bailout is aimed at is an orderly decline. We are in a situation where we have had two parallel bubbles burst–a credit and housing bubble. Paulson and Bernanke know that there is no panacea for this except a contraction-debt liquidation- and time. This bill attempts to buy time such that banks etc can figure out the losses on their books and take appropriate measures without halting their normal lending.

This bill or any other will have no effect, if history is a guide, in determining the ultimate low of this market. That low will be determined by the cumulative losses now on the books.

patrick neid on September 29, 2008 at 6:37 PM

There is time and place for political conviction. This time is not one of them.

Yes.

There’s a time to fight and a time to recognize the limits of one’s convictions in a morally complex world.

It’s called life.

Yeah, I know, what a pedantic ass I am.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:37 PM

Here’s what our friend on the left M. Moore, has to say about the vote.

Over.

1GooDDaDDy on September 29, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Hollowpoint on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

NO, people don’t understand. All people see are 700 billion and Wall St.

We are moving towards the nationalization of the banking system. If banks won’t lend than the govt will have to do the lending.

How should I put it, if the FREAKING HERITAGE FOUNDATION backs the bill, than the situation must be more dire than people understand.

Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Are there any banking institutions that are not in trouble right now? Banks that stood up to pressure by community organizers and didn’t give out bad loans? Or banks that only gave out the bare minimum of these loans required by the CRA?

If so, those are the institutions that I’d like to deal with in the future.

If not, I think I’ll start keeping my money under my mattress. (kidding…about the mattress. Not kidding about wanting to reward banks that didn’t jump on the subprime bandwagon).

JadeNYU on September 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM

He is being a leader, unlike Nancy. There will be plenty of time for politics after a bill gets passed.

Mark1971 on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

I’d be a lot more confident that he’s ready for politics if I’d seen some evidence of it in the past few months.

As for Nancy, that is a false analogy. There is a huge difference between lying, accusing Republicans of not showing up for meetings, and calling them “unpatriotic” and explaining to the American people how certain elements of a bill will just perpetuate the same old, same old corruption.

Buy Danish on September 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM

Dave Rywall on September 29, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Democrats are the Leaders of the House and the Senate they have the Majotiry, why didn’t it pass?.

Democrats control the committees

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM

No money for buying cars, 50 inch LCD TV’s and no money for buying money for houses. Watch mortgage rates spike and the value of houses plummet.

I forgot to mention, I just got back from the car dealer, as I thought it might be time to replace my aging truck. I replace them every 400,000 miles or so. Still shopping around, but I will tell you that the salesman ran my credit and said “no problem, we can deliver tonight”. There is money available to those with good credit. Funny though, If my credit score would have been, say 500, I would not qualify. Imagine that. Loaning money to people who are qualified and rejecting those who aren’t. What a concept.

gstrickler on September 29, 2008 at 6:41 PM

People draw lines at different times…

Yep, that sums it up. We all have different lines that, once crossed, must be responded too.

My own view is that this isn’t it right now. But that if we don’t respond now, we’re lost for a long, long time.

Of course, others say it’s already lost. Or that this response will lead us to defeat.

And so we wind up yelling and screaming at one another.

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:42 PM

Unfortunately those who crafted the bill also have no idea what they’re talking about. They don’t know what these securities they want to buy are worth. They don’t know how much money it will actually require. They don’t know what the long term cost will be if and when the securities are sold.

That so many people are against it isn’t because they’re stupid and/or uninformed- it’s because the government has done a horrible job in explaining why it’s necessary to spend $700 billion dollars- about $2300 for every man, woman and child in the country- to solve the problem.

Hollowpoint on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Since this is the Bush administration’s proposal, that they designed with Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank, assistance, shouldn’t it be Bush’s responsibility to explain it to us?

Perhaps he could take Nancy to task for calling members of his own party unpatriotic for not attending a meeting that she and Bush’s Sec Treas didn’t invite them to?

hmmmm?

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:42 PM

Thank you, Senator McCain. Hopefully you can find enough responsible adults in Congress to work with you and produce a better bailout bill than this one, or at least prevent it from going backwards to the Democrats’ previous “deal.”

Some people place political party over country. Others place ideological purity over compromise at a time of national crisis. Then, there are those who are taking pleasure in the bailout failure and the market crash. What kind of people are not just indifferent to, but actually revel at the suffering of millions of Americans?

Loxodonta on September 29, 2008 at 6:42 PM

Time has come to call out the Dems – Pelosi, Obama, Reid, Frank, and Dodd. Alert the public about the Dems trying to insert earmarks at a time of financial crisis. They are despicable and McCain NEEDS TO F’NG SAY IT PLAINLY!!!!

marklmail on September 29, 2008 at 6:42 PM

I really wish we weren’t stuck with such a lame candidate.

therightwinger on September 29, 2008 at 6:43 PM

Wow. Just wow. This is what it has come down to? Comparing government monetary policy to possible terminal illness. You can do better. Just think a little.

grdred944 on September 29, 2008 at 6:26 PM

btw, it’s fiscal, not monetary policy.
No, not really. If you just wait for the market to ‘correct itself’ in the present situation, it is just like refusing to take chemo; ignore it and it’ll just go away.

The last ‘depression’ lasted for, what, 13 years. You ready to wait that long for a ‘correction?’

Market corrections this big and this broad can very well lead to devastating ruin, worldwide. Last one was the lead up to WWII. 60 million dead. Without nukes in screwy hands.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:43 PM

You know what, I wish you people were right.

Economics is a more complicated than people think. Yes the credit markets are still alive, but they are on life support.

Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:43 PM

%&#* YOU CONGRESS!!!!

You made taxpayers lose $1.2 trillion dollars IN A SINGLE DAY when the entire bailout would have cost $700 billion!!

I can’t even believe we elect these pieces of #$&%.

nickj116 on September 29, 2008 at 6:44 PM

I forgot to mention, I just got back from the car dealer, as I thought it might be time to replace my aging truck. I replace them every 400,000 miles or so. Still shopping around, but I will tell you that the salesman ran my credit and said “no problem, we can deliver tonight”. There is money available to those with good credit. Funny though, If my credit score would have been, say 500, I would not qualify. Imagine that. Loaning money to people who are qualified and rejecting those who aren’t. What a concept.

gstrickler on September 29, 2008 at 6:41 PM

yep

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:44 PM

He should make this statement:
http://myriadscreed.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/proposed-response-to-bailout-failure/

MyriadScreed on September 29, 2008 at 6:45 PM

Eating just delays the ultimate outcome too, so I guess trailboss will stop eating now. Myself, I’ll pass.

Murphy9 on September 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM

Read the whole post, S.A., it might take on some meaning.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:45 PM

T

ime has come to call out the Dems – Pelosi, Obama, Reid, Frank, and Dodd. Alert the public about the Dems trying to insert earmarks at a time of financial crisis. They are despicable and McCain NEEDS TO F’NG SAY IT PLAINLY!!!!

marklmail on September 29, 2008 at 6:42 PM

What about John McCain’s boss, the President of the United States, ie the most powerful man in the world?

He bears no responsibility here?

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM

You must be new to using logical fallacies in argument. Appeal to authority is not only common but necessary where the arguer does not have primary authority.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:20 PM

His complaint is perfectly valid, and you goddam well know it.

The problem is that nobody really understands where we are, so there is no authority worth taking. Personally, I think the likelihood of the bailout stalling the collapse more than a few weeks is pretty small (but then, I’m not an authority on the subject, either.) They’re proposing $700 billion in spending and don’t have the first idea whether it will do any good. I wouldn’t vote for that, either.

The real, valuable suggestions have come from the right: bury FASB 157, the mark-to-market rule. Suspend the capital gains tax to encourage capitalization. Cut Fannie and Freddie lose from the government teat. Those all address core causes of the problem. Dumping money onto people who made lousy investments is counterproductive, and opting into socialism is worse than counterproductive, especially when it’s led by the same f***ing criminals who protected F & F from oversight in the first place.

philwynk on September 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM

Guess what, on Thursday the Dems will come up with a bill that includes ACORN, and other liberal crap and it will pass b/c the Republicans screwed up. Thanks GOP.

Lance Murdock on September 29, 2008 at 6:48 PM

Are there any banking institutions that are not in trouble right now? Banks that stood up to pressure by community organizers and didn’t give out bad loans? Or banks that only gave out the bare minimum of these loans required by the CRA?

If so, those are the institutions that I’d like to deal with in the future.

If not, I think I’ll start keeping my money under my mattress. (kidding…about the mattress. Not kidding about wanting to reward banks that didn’t jump on the subprime bandwagon).

JadeNYU on September 29, 2008 at 6:40 PM

USAA

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:49 PM

Oh, jeez, my bad. An argument without factual basis is just a rhetorical tactic.

An appeal to authority’s factual basis is real: that authority supports your position. It just isn’t relevant except maybe as a heuristic with which to make a decision, thus its use as a rhetorical tactic.

A factual basis is by nature an appeal to authority, since unless you argue from primary authority, any ‘fact’ you cite is an appeal to the authority of another.

Making an argument based on commonly accepted empirical data is not the same thing as an appeal to authority.

“You shouldn’t jump off a cliff because I said so” is an appeal to authority.

“You shouldn’t jump off a cliff as the fall will likely kill you” is not an appeal to authority.

So far, every argument I’ve heard for the bill reads like the former.

Now, I’m a little rusty, and perhaps not using the terminology exactly right, but don’t go making enemies where you don’t need to.

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

How’s about you watch the patronizing tone and we’ll call it even.

So what if just a rhetorical tactic? Perhaps, the tactic works because there is truth in it.

Or perhaps it works because fear induces irrational but manipulable behavior in humans?

I don’t know who else am I suppose to listen during an economic crisis?

I dunno, maybe someone that respects your intelligence enough to explain their reasoning for appropriating nearly a trillion dollars to play doctor with the free market?

Should I ask a dentist what will work to fix the economy?

terryannonline on September 29, 2008 at 6:30 PM

I don’t know, do you usually ask to see X-rays before he starts drilling into your teeth, or do you just let him do whatever he wants with the justification of, “I’m your dentist, shut up, sit down and pay me when you’re done.”

The architect can draw a picture your roof, but he can’t get it covered in three hours.

RBMN on September 29, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Eh, so I should instead go to the contractor that built by roof poorly in the first place?

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:50 PM

Whose fault is it that the bailout bill didn’t pass? It’s clearly Barack Obama’s fault. House Republicans are well known to be devoted Obama followers so obviously he didn’t do enough to bring them along on this.

KentAllard on September 29, 2008 at 6:50 PM

The real, valuable suggestions have come from the right: bury FASB 157, the mark-to-market rule. Suspend the capital gains tax to encourage capitalization. Cut Fannie and Freddie lose from the government teat. Those all address core causes of the problem. Dumping money onto people who made lousy investments is counterproductive, and opting into socialism is worse than counterproductive, especially when it’s led by the same f***ing criminals who protected F & F from oversight in the first place.

philwynk on September 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM

yep. And Bush won’t champion any of them….why the hell not?

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:51 PM

philwynk on September 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM

What are you yelling at me for? I’m just giving the person a little harassment for continually throwing out terms like ‘appeal to authority.’

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:53 PM

McCain should call a presser, explain exactly what the problem is, exactly who caused it, because we all know someone did cause this, and what the avaialble solution is.

He doesn’t have to have the solution, but if he can come out and give a coherent explanation of the processes involved, it’d help his campaign and more importantly the country.

Iblis on September 29, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Whose fault is it that the bailout bill didn’t pass?

Question: What is the current political party makeup of the US House of Representatives?

Answer: The makeup of the U.S. House of Representatives by party is: 236 Democrats and 198 Republicans, totaling 434 Members. This is fewer than the usual 435 due to a vacancy in Ohio’s 11th district as a result of Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones’ recent death.

When Pelosi has wanted to crack the whip and get a bill through, she’s done it.

Why not this time?

SteveMG on September 29, 2008 at 6:54 PM

What about John McCain’s boss, the President of the United States, ie the most powerful man in the world?

He bears no responsibility here?

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM

Bush warned them in 2003..

YouTube Pulled the Burning Down the House Video! LMAO!

They are afraid of the truth!

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 6:55 PM

YouTube Pulled the Burning Down the House Video! LMAO!

They are afraid of the truth!

Chakra Hammer on September 29, 2008 at 6:56 PM

funky chicken on September 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM

the President of the United States is boss of the Senate? guess i need to update my copy of the Constitution.

chasdal on September 29, 2008 at 6:56 PM

There is an empirical truth in all of this.

Even if government were to use all of its power and money in an attempt to calm this crisis there is one thing that cannot be escaped:

Adam Smith’s invisible hand.

The invisible hand must be allowed to exert its infulence upon the economy.

In this case the hand belongs to Mohammed Ali in his prime and is going to make a fist and knock out most of your teeth, render you unconscious and possibly cause a concussion… it may even kill you.

However,

It is unavoidable.

Best to get it over with.

turfmann on September 29, 2008 at 6:56 PM

F— it.

I’m voting Barr. If only Palin would join his ticket.

VolMagic on September 29, 2008 at 6:57 PM

What are you yelling at me for?

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:53 PM

‘Cause I read something like 5 of your comments, and every one of them had the same, condescending tone. From where I sit, you’re probably about 1/3 as bright as you think you are, putz.

philwynk on September 29, 2008 at 6:57 PM

I don’t trust any of this. Sorry, just don’t.
Nationalizing our economy and giving the Treasury Secretary dictator like powers to TEMPORARILY correct a problem is not a fix.
It like the attitude is “We gotta keep throwing money down the hole!”
Why not fix Fannie May and Freddie Mac!? Why not bring down the capital gains to zero!? Why not arrest Barney Frank and Chris Dodd!? If some Dems went to jail, I think that would help bring confidence back into the markets! It would certainly show the world we are serious about fixing the problem!

JellyToast on September 29, 2008 at 6:58 PM

The last ‘depression’ lasted for, what, 13 years. You ready to wait that long for a ‘correction?’

trailboss on September 29, 2008 at 6:43 PM

It lasted that long because of ham-handed government intervention after the fact (Smoot-Hawley tariff, etc.).

Meh, pass the bill. Better to do it now than to wait for the hysteria to metastasize it into a monster. There’s enough people on this board that are willing to let experts tell them what to think that the thing could turn into the New Deal part two.

spmat on September 29, 2008 at 6:58 PM

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