Luntz focus group: Who won the debate? Update: CBS poll of undecideds says Obama wins

BULLSHIITE

But it is true, I’ve left the conservative/Republican ideology around 2004 when supporting torture was a prerequisite for being a good conservative. Heh.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM

Maybe you didn’t get the memo but McCain has been against torture all along. So, knowing that now, I guess you’ll vote for him, right? Yeah, didn’t think so. And speaking of Socialized health care, I just thought I would share with you all that my husband’s aunt, who was rotting away in a Canadian hospital because she couldn’t keep food down due to a nerve in her stomach – could have been cured by a pill, but since she’s in her 70’s, the government really didn’t bother treating her – anyway, she took her own life in the hospital there on Friday morning to end her suffering. I don’t EVER want to hear ANYONE defend that useless, criminal system again. I’m encouraging my husband’s father to pursue any and all legal action they can against that sick, Hitlerian excuse for a health care system. I don’t know what they can do, but I am so angry and shocked and cannot believe that there are people here that are so stupid they want that same system in my country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

How will he pay for that?

We must also begin to think of health care as a human right.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 4:13 PM

Well isn’t that special. Your only problem is that there is no such “right” written into the bill of rights. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that one of your rights are to force one American to pay for another’s health care costs. In fact the US Constitution was written to protect individual liberty and property rights from such dictated socialism. What you are saying here is that you want to amend the US Constitution. Maybe you think it should say “promote” the common defense and “provide for” the general welfare instead of the other way around. If you feel that way you are free to lobby a super majority to change it but rights are those listed in the US Constitution and no amount of wishful thinking or “beginning to think of healthcare as a right” will make it one.

who is going to produce all the things needed?
Maxx on September 27, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Haven’t you heard of forced labor camps. Those who won’t work (for the common good) will be sent to concentration camps and be terminated. Fear is the socialists/fascists/demoncraps friend. :(

…there will be sacrifices to ensure that health care is regarded as a human right. But a country that can conduct two concurrent wars can afford to require that universal health care is a human right for all who want it.

philnewkirk

…health care is not a right. A right, as someone else has pointed out, requires no funding.

Health care is an entitlement.

There is more spent annually on the political promises society has grown accustomed/addicted to than on defense. Without entitlements, folks have to hustle. Without defense, it doesn’t make any difference how much you hustle…there’s no more country in which to hustle.

Healthcare is a feel-good entitlement…bread and circuses promised to folks who don’t see any need of hustling…not if the bread and circuses arrive on time.

The AMA has been putting on commercials dripping with concern for the “uninsured”…because, if you stop to think about it, who gets the money the insurance companies pay out.

Healthcare is no more a right than health.

If healthcare is a right, I want petroleum to be a right. Fill’er up!

That is why so few polls are coming out after this very important meeting. If this had been a watershed we would be flooded with gloating polls. especially if Obama gained

The utter lack of a blast of propaganda tells me the MSM is not happy

Morris was upset that McCain did not take a scalp

That is OK with me. I saw so little interest in the debate today in my town. That in itself is of interest. Voters were not looking to be convinced or vindicated

That tells me Zogby is closest to the truth

Voters are very unhappy right now. They do not want a loose cannon so much they are shutting off the arguments. They are so saturated with bad news any news is unwelcome

Whoever presents the greatest comfort level will get the swing voters in Novenber regardless of what pollsters are saying now

That bodes well for McCain and his average american running mate

There is still a lot of time to change the dynamics but nothing tanked last night

No blood on the ground today

I’ve left the conservative/Republican ideology around 2004 when supporting torture was a prerequisite for being a good conservative. Heh.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM

…torture?

Crucify the bastards!

Waterboarding? I’ve been waterboarded. I was treated to a number of techniques in training in the Army, including that one, and it can be effective. It was almost effective in training, where you know that they can’t actually kill you (although I wasn’t sure about my lot).

The purpose of forced interrogations is to get information. This information can help us save the lives of our forces and allies, as well as head off the bad guys.

Remember: most of the guys we captured were lucky to be alive, having been taken on the battlefield by some decidedly unsympathetic people.

…and, they’re all alive today. Plucked from a very dangerous situation and alive and well — and healthy and well-fed, better than before, I hear — and all it cost ‘em was a little information. Not bad.

Torture? In a shooting war, if it serves your strategic or tactical purposes, bring on the field phones, rawhide, bright lights and those little girl interrogators who somehow seem to know how to make you sing like a bird.

Pardon me if I’m unsympathetic to folks who thirst for the blood of my children…and if I somehow pollute the purity of some idiotic peacetime American ideal taught in some law school somewhere…but war is war, and has been since God drowned the Pharoahs chariots and squashed the Philistines. It’s a dirty, nasty business and you’d better be serious about it…somehow, all our enemies historically have been….

Might as well. I am still holding out hope for this party though.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM

Holding out what hope? That we’ll disappear? Cease to exist? Your politics suggest as much.

Should we also start thinking of food and housing as human rights? You know, a “right” is something that cannot be lawfully denied, whether you work or not.

Maxx on September 27, 2008 at 5:27 PM

Yes.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Ok, then if we all quit our jobs and start exercising these rights to food and housing and health care who is going to build the houses, produce the food and provide the health care?

Remember a “right” is something that cannot be lawfully denied, it has no connection to your income or if you have a job or if you pay taxes or anything else.

So where does the government get the money to provide all of these things and even if they had the money who is going to produce all the things needed?

I’ve left the conservative/Republican ideology around 2004 when supporting torture was a prerequisite for being a good conservative. Heh. – philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I doubt that.

For those who are depressed and in the dumps, go visit Hugh Hewitt’s site which is unashamedly partisan. We make fun of the Olbermanns and Chris Matthews, but IMHO they serve a purpose for the left – keeping their morale up. Probably deep down they know that Olby and Chrissy are full of sh!t, but keeping high morale is important in times like these. As much as I like Ed and Allah (their honesty), sometimes I wish there was a Hugh Hewitt type here.

For all the naysayers and doommongers (who aren’t trolls), today is September 27th. There’s still more than a month left in this campaign. One month ago tonight (seems like 1 year ago!) we were involved in flame wars over who was better – Romney, Pawlenty, Cantor, Palin, Huckabee, etc. One single day changed everything instantly for those on the right. It’s not over until Nov 4th, so much can change in one day. Start making calls for McCain and talking to friends – do something. Don’t just sit around and bitch about how poorly Sarah Palin interviews and pretend like it’s the end of ‘08.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I don’t care if you’re registered as a Republican. You’re a full-blown, brainwashed leftist now, whatever you once were. You may as well start representing yourself as such.

capitalist piglet on September 27, 2008 at 5:55 PM

Might as well. I am still holding out hope for this party though.

One so-called undecided voter now leaning toward McCain is a female who appears to be black and identified herself as a college grad/military vet. She said Obama has a problem with women and is “too articulate” (glib).

Compared to your elites like Pelosi, Shummer, Rangel, Kennedy, Obama etc? You have a lot of nerve after all the attacks that Sarah Palin had to endure by your side. Hypocrite is thy name.

Elric66 on September 27, 2008 at 5:53 PM

I don’t like people who support raising the minimum wage and enacting universal health care. It’s all so…elitist.

philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I don’t care if you’re registered as a Republican. You’re a full-blown, brainwashed leftist now, whatever you once were. You may as well start representing yourself as such.

Our military is only successful if the government buts out when we are at war. Your “patriots” almost lost the war in Iraq. How does that make you feel, comrade?
Elric66 on September 27, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Our military is by definition part of our government. Comparing health care to whether we win or lose a war is apples and zebras.

Thats the difference between conservatives and liberals; conservatives look to God and/or Jesus for salvation, libs look to the government for salvation.
Elric66 on September 27, 2008 at 5:49 PM

Good point.