Luntz focus group: Who won the debate? Update: CBS poll of undecideds says Obama wins
posted at 9:26 am on September 27, 2008 by Allahpundit
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A Rorschach reaction, unsurprisingly. Hopefully we’ll have some quickie overnight polls to chew on later this morning.
The good news? Sounds like Maverick might have turned The One into a McCain voter. Click the image to watch.
Update: Why, here’s a poll already. Grim, but the 14-point spread between Dems and GOPers makes it pretty much useless.
Update: 39/24 for Obama among undecideds, says CBS. Yeesh.
Update: A focus group of undecideds run by a Democratic pollster also shows Obama winning by a margin similar to the one in CBS’s poll.
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What a fatuous and utterly stupid thing to say. Reagan had depth, substance and a towering intellect – to which the letters and speeches of his that surfaced after his death amply bear witness.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:25 AM
And no McCain did not say that Pakistan was our friend. and what does Obama want to do complain about Iraq and then go to war with a nuclear nation?
What was that our dictator crap? Mussharaff came to power about a decade ago after the Pakistani government collapsed. What has that got to do with the man being our dictator? On one hand Obama thinks we should have left Saddam in power in spite of the fact that he broke a cease fire agreement, shot at our planes and tried to kill a president…but somehow or other we are responsible for who runs Pakistan?
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:25 AM
And Obama is still stuck on “I voted for, no, against, no for, no AGAINST the surge.”
And Obama still maintains that he did the right thing.
Which basically means that Obama doesn’t learn from mistakes and would continue to make the same bad mistakes over and over again.
As long as Obama continues to insist that the surge didn’t work and that he was wrong to vote against it, this “talking point” is in play.
You really think that a presidential candidates FIRST option is to go to war??!!
McCain nailed it when he said that you don’t say that in public.
Pakistan may or may not BE or friend.
The point, though, is that we WANT Pakistan to be our friend.
And you don’t accomplish that by threatening to bomb them!
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Election day is Nov.4, email me Nov.5 to rub my nose in it.
paulsurr@gmail.com
Because you know that I will definitely be here to remind you all when they announce President Barak Asshola, I will definitely be telling you you got just what you deserved.
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 10:26 AM
should we link to all the times that McCain has said ‘I agree with Hillary Clinton’? I don’t see where saying ‘I agree’ means you have lost. They both have the same polling data and keywords that work. They are going to say they support the troops – you expect one of the two to disagree when one says they ’support the troops’.
My point was that the claim that someone is ‘naive’ is condescending. I guess I should try it more instead of actually addressing the issues. If someone disagrees with me, I’ll just say ‘you are naive’.
And if you think McCain is going to win in a landslide, ‘you’re naive’. There I WIN.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:26 AM
According to the Anchoress, last night Chris Matthews conceded that McCain won. I’ll have to take her word for it ’cause I can’t go there.
McCain could have beaten Obama up more, but that would have seemed like overkill. I think big spender, pork lover, election year reform convert, stubborn like Bush, reflexive liberal on Georgia and Iran, too naive and inexperienced to lead, etc., are all going to leave a mark.
Greta V.S. tried to set up debate watching panels in swing states. When she checked in with the Hillary stronghold of Wilkes-Barre, PA, McCain was perceived as the clear winner. In Florida, it was a near draw with the edge to McCain.
Terrie on September 27, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Me hab a bwacewet too.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
fogw on September 27, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Pelosi Drilling Ban – real vote getter there
Binde making rounds – Missed it… was he for or against Obama’s positions this time?
McCain on Taxes… yep, he missed his chance to point out Obama’s BIG LIE. You cannot reduce taxes for 95% when the bottom 40% PAY NO TAXES. Completely idiotic.
Blame for Failure of Bailout on McCain – some sort of bailout will probably pass BUT with the general public opposing a bailout nearly 2 to 1, another vote getter there.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Focus groups are a festering disease in our intellectual culture.
I bet there are seminars teaching you how to convince suckers like Luntz that you’re an “undecided voter” so he picks you, and then you get to exert inordinate influence over the media, all the while being a paid shill for Obama on live television. What a bucket of crap.
We are such dopes for lopping this up.
jeff_from_mpls on September 27, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Thanks for the warning. I’ll be sure to add your e-mail address to my spam list.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:30 AM
McCain is the idiot talking about how we ‘torture’ and screaming at the top of his lungs about every single covert operation that we do and declaring it ‘illegal’ and ‘against the geneva conventions’. How is this not worse than Murtha.
Since when is finishing a war that started on 9/11/2001 considered a war as the ‘first option’. This has been dragging out way too long because we aren’t fighting it right. We ‘depend’ on Pakistan (who is shooting at us). At least Russia isn’t shooting at us. If a country is publicly shooting at us (with bullets we bought them), I’d say war is definitely an option.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Kaptain Amerika on September 27, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Thank you! LOVE Metallica.
Cindy Munford on September 27, 2008 at 10:30 AM
And let us not forget that the Obama camp told their supporters to watch CNN. An obviously biased network toward Obama.
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Why Frank Luntz is can’t be trusted as an analyst:
Analyzing Barry’s Berlin speech on Hannity & Colmes, he called Obama’s god-awful mess (the theme of which was stolen from Bono, but I digress) the best speech in Obama’s lifetime. Luntz went on to say:
And you still have people who are challenging him; when you look inside the words, what do they really mean? Quite frankly, we don’t know the answer to that, but the words are powerful.
Buy Danish on September 27, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Luntz is an idiot who wears a bad hair piece.
http://moneynews.com/streettalk/mccain_depression_video/2008/09/26/134808.html
Mercy4Me on September 27, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Sorry MR, the post is too long for a comment board. Apparently you need to be a member of Rush24/7 in order to obtain access; which I am. Good investment MR, I recommend this as a wise investment into continued education. Go here:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/Rush247.member.html
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Voter turnout has mostly been 50-60% for the past 40 years. So, the key to winning is not what the polls say about voter preferences now, but how many supporters of each candidate turn out to vote.
This is why it is so important for “independent” Obama acolytes & “life-long Republican” McCain haters to encourage doubt and dissension among McCain supporters. They want to discourage us from turning out to vote.
Loxodonta on September 27, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Let’s say McCain wins the election, which I predict, all these pollsters should be out of business. I absolutely hate polls. They are so wrong so many times.
jencab on September 27, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Thacker:
McCain did not say he agreed with Hillary Clinton in the midst of a heated debate with Hillary Clinton. He did not treat her like an idiot one minute, and kiss her butt the next.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:33 AM
This is the phrase that should be chiseled into America’s gravestone.
Then, years from now, archaeologists will discover the exact moment, and the exact reason why America collapsed.
jeff_from_mpls on September 27, 2008 at 10:33 AM
The city of Las Vegas are where the dopes who keep electing Harry Reid are from.
Nuff said.
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 10:33 AM
You know what was interesting about the debate:
On television or news magazines, Republicans usually get lambasted on foreign policy. Usually on television debate shows the conservative is usually an idiot trying to debate a liberal know it all on foreign policy. It was refreshing to see last night that an articulate representation on foreign policy. I don’t get to see that everyday. I was very impressed.
terryannonline on September 27, 2008 at 10:34 AM
We should link to those… absolutely. Ah, I think those were all things pointing out Senator Obama’s negatives… How could he disagree.
As far as you shouting you win… sure, but EVERY SINGLE EXREMELY Conservative or Liberal has lost HUGE. Began with Goldwater losing big in ‘64. The McGovern. Then Carter. Then Mondale. Then Dukakis. Question D3 (non-trolls will know what that is) points out consistently over the years that 60%+ of the electorate is conservative to moderatly conservative while 30%- is liberal or moderately liberal. Who knows… maybe history (the thing Senator Obama has NONE of, so he CAN’T talk about it) will change. Maybe all that “young vote” will actually vote. But, I’ll bet on history.
I love the taste of troll in the morning.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Tahcker:
I don’t really agree with McCain on torture, I think that has a lot to do with his own treatment in Nam..But the man does not scream at the top of his lungs about covert action. That s a silly statement.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Your average person doesn’t know the details of the plan. Obama came across like he was in support of drilling. If he supports Pelosi’s plan, clearly, he does not support it. McCain did not call him on it.
He just said that Obama did well everywhere. Palin was noticeably absent. Does that sound like McCain has any confidence in her? The VP -always- makes the rounds during the presidential debates as a cheerleader. Why wasn’t she doing that?
95% of the country getting a tax break sounds good. McCain didn’t call him on it; nor could McCain explain why a tax increase on some is a tax increase on all. McCain just stood there sheepishly. Stupid.
Look at McCain’s numbers on belief that he’ll do well on the economy over the past few days. It’s tanking. That alone accounts for his losses in the polls. Unless he can explain why Obama would be bad, he can’t gain points back.
McCain is too enamored with reaching across the aisle and playing nice. He can’t play nice and win. And he either lacks the details to go on the offensive or will not.
Either way; I was right earlier this week. McCain may as well not bother to un-suspend his campaign.
lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Saying you agree with someone doesn’t mean you have lost. If someone says ‘water is wet’, I’ll say ‘I agree’, but that doesn’t mean I’ve lost some important point in a debate.
That’s where I’m coming from. I never thought agreeing a point during a debate means you have lost. . . yet the McCainanites here seem to think if you agree with someone in a debate you have lost.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:36 AM
I thought McCain was able to leverage his experience over and over again. I’ve been to wherever-istan, I’ve spoken with ________.
Then slam Obama for not even convening a committee meeting.
He showed where he’s able to reach across the aisle, and listed various ways that he was a Bush clone.
Obama conceded many points, which begs the question, what points will he concede to Putin, Mullahs, Kim, when he meets with them? He’s already pretty much written them an invitation.
McCain showed experince and exposed Not ready to lead.
jstueve on September 27, 2008 at 10:36 AM
I appreciate it. However, I have been listening to Rush Limbaugh longer than anyone here – since August 15 1988.
Back then, his radio show was more or less local with a few syndicated spots. In those days it was easy to get through to call him and, at one point, I even called his office at the WABC studio in New York after the show and chatted with him for half an hour. Heh…try doing that today.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:37 AM
It’s all so clear to me now. We need a smarter foreign policy.
Holy crap that’s exactly the answer we’ve been looking for!
It was all so confusing to me before, and yet so crystal clear to me today!
He is The One.
jeff_from_mpls on September 27, 2008 at 10:38 AM
I see that you couldn’t address the point I made and, instead, changed the subject.
So noted.
Since Pakistan has actually been trying to help us.
Sure, it’s been off and on and not as full-throttle as we’d like…
…but making an enemy of them (which is what Obama wants to do) is NOT the answer.
Funny you should say that since you want to excoriate McCain for bringing up the surge.
The surge is the RIGHT way to fight.
And your buddy, Obama, is STILL against the surge.
North Korea has been shooting at us for decades, so has Cuba and there has been numerous “incidents” involving many other countries, INCLUDING Russia.
War is not the first option when a couple of bullets go zinging.
ESPECIALLY from a country that you WANT to have as an ally.
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 10:38 AM
It’s all so clear to me now. We need a smarter war in Afghanistan.
Holy crap that’s exactly the answer we’ve been looking for!
It was all so confusing to me before, and yet so crystal clear to me today!
He is The One.
jeff_from_mpls on September 27, 2008 at 10:38 AM
It’s all so clear to me now. We need a smarter war in economic plan.
Holy crap that’s exactly the answer we’ve been looking for!
It was all so confusing to me before, and yet so crystal clear to me today!
He is The One.
jeff_from_mpls on September 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Excellent point.
jencab on September 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Well, I suspect those will be statements of agreement that Senator Obama will regret. They were all preceeded with statement of position by Senator McCain. Without research, I’m confident he either already has stated some position (among his many) that disagrees with what McCain said or will during the next month. The campaign ad will already be in the can waiting to run. Lehrer tried to toss him a relative softball asking what he would change about his spending based on the economic crisis. His answer: even more spending. Not astute at all.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:43 AM
I liked him when he first came on. But after a while, his results started skewing towards the left. I don’t know if it is him, or if people have figured out how to monkey wrench his groups and he is too naive to see it.
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Even now, as we chat here, the congress, both parties are negotiating to steal some $700 billion of our money. Even John McCain wants to be in on the festivities. I received a letter yesterday from Representative Pete Sessions. It souned so noble, but nowhere in the letter did it indicate that the republican alternative would not risk taxpayer money. Nowhere did it indicate that they would dissolve the institutions of Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae, that got us into this mess in the first place. They want that cash cow to keep right on draining us dry. They have no intentions of truly fixing the problem, they just want to camoflauge it, so they can suck us dry a little more.
And who among you has called your representatives, and demanded that the solution not invlove taxpayer funds at all? Who among you has demanded that the solution must ultimately result in government getting out of the mortgage and housing manipulation business entirely?
You see, we have become sheep. They tell us what they want to tell us. they tell us this is the only way.
I tell you, why use taxpayer money at all? Why dont we just tell the banks to auction their bad debt off? if they don’t know how much it is worth, they will know when they auction it. No risk to our wallets. No! your noble congressmen instead tell you they can buy that debt, hold it, and sell it for a better price, and you will benefit. Guess what? It’s bad debt!!! it aint gonna be worth more than it was originally. You have all the resetting interest that has to be paid on it. What they will do is buy that bad debt, then sell more treasury notes to the Chinese, and then blame Wall St. when the dollar aint worth shit, and you and I cant buy gas for our cars or milk for our babies.
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Nyah nyah nyah… gotcha beat. I lived in KC when he was doing radio there and I actually heard his “ugly people” bit when he did it…. funniest thing I ever heard.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Now you are claiming that NK, Russia, and Cuba are our allies because they were shooting at us?
Allies should NOT shoot at us. Pakistan is shooting at us. They were our friends because we gave them money. They performed exercises to fool America (you) into giving them more money.
McCain and Congress are talking about torture. Congress should NOT EVER talk about ‘torture’ that America might or might not do. Not in public, not in private, not ever unless they are in an interrogation room with a bad guy who wants all of us dead. Congress does not keep us safe in their ivory towers in DC. These decisions are and should be made in the field by people who keep us safe.
The Congress should not even discuss what may or may not happen in our intelligence community. What other country excoriates its own for covert activity? McCain champions it.
But let me try the tactic that you people seem to think is a ‘good’ debating tactic with you. If you think Pakistan is ‘trying’ to help America, you are naive.
Wow, that is fun. I comes in handy. brilliant.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM
The point of a debate is show the difference between yourself and your opponent.
Continuing to agree with your opponent shows that you have nothing substantive to add to his position.
Thus, at best you are telling people that it really doesn’t matter WHO you vote for.
At worse you are telling people that your opponent is the better candidate since all you can do is agree with what they’re saying.
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Jeez. Just saw a horrible Obama ad with Lilly Ledbetter on the equal pay BS. She comes off like an ignorant hick (and I’m from Kentucky, I know what ignorant hicks sound like). “Mah family needed that munny.” Good grief. And it’s playing on HGTV on Saturday morning. Maybe 100 people saw it.
rockmom on September 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM
I would not brag about being brainwashed longer than other sheep.
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Fox friends this morning were overwhelmingly praising McCain.
Look,, we all saw what we saw.
The nation saw what it saw.
If Obama did so great we would all be sulking and depressed.
The first 10 minutes of the debate, I give to Obama. McCain stumbled. I know how I felt then. I thought it was lost. I envisioned McCain being nice the entire evening and Obama boldly and convincingly spouting lies. I almost wanted to walk out,, but I hung in there and the whole thing turned around.
Obama was an embarrassment.
I know what I witnessed n that debate.
I witnessed a small minded little girl-man angrily trying to convince the world he was smarter and better than the real hero in the room.
Obama wanted to be in charge.
McCain lead.
Obama wanted to be heard saying smart things.
McCain spoke with authority.
Obama was angry and tried to think of things to say.
McCain was confident in his knowledge, experience and position.
Obama was a sweaty, nervous, angry in your face community organizer.
McCain was the President.
I know others saw this too. Regardless of the polls.
A lot can be summed up by the bracelet moment.
McCain shared a personal moment that had meaning in the symbol of a bracelet he wore at the request of a parent. A parent who lost a son in a war.
Obama,, pathetically, without even knowing it, demeaned the death of a soldier by casually saying, “I have a bracelet too, (no big deal) it’s uh, here on my, uh wrist, sergeant, uh what his name?…”
That moment exposed the community agitator for what he was. Empty.
JellyToast on September 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM
He would be lying if he said that. Iraq can not defend itself from it’s neighbors at this point. We broke it, we have to stay until it is fixed. It will be at least 5 years until they have a working AF for example. Iran knows this. We need a President who knows it too.
Dawnsblood on September 27, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Thacker, darlin, good morning!
If I totally agreed with you about Sen. McCain, I don’t understand how you give carte blanche to a free wheeling spender and a Democratic Congress. I shudder to think.
Cindy Munford on September 27, 2008 at 10:51 AM
The glaring point here is Obama told the nation in his acceptance speech that McCain just doesn’t get it. Then last night on eight different issues he basically said he DOES get it. Get it?
Patrick S on September 27, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Hey Thacker! We agree! Pakistan is not our friend. Let’s begin open hostilities immediately. Let the nuclear exchange begin (they are a nuclear power). Besides, who knows where some of our “older” missles might stray and accidentally land in that part of the world. Sort of like Reagan accidentally bombing the French embassy in Libya when they wouldn’t let us fly over France to bomb Libya, if you get my drift.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:53 AM
The point isn’t that he agreed, it was the context of the agreement. Obama was agreeing with McCain after he had the chance to say the same thing, but did not. John was making better points than Obama’s original ones, so he agreed to make himself appear to be a conservative.
Obama is a stone liberal, whitey hating, baby killer. He can agree with McCain all day long, but that doesn’t change what he is at his core.
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Reading comprehension isn’t exactly your strong point, is it?
YOUR point was “If a country is publicly shooting at us (with bullets we bought them), I’d say war is definitely an option.”
I pointed out that MANY countries have exchanged gunfire with us over the years, even countries we don’t like.
But war is NOT an option just because bullets go zinging.
No, Allies should NOT shoot at us.
But shooting back doesn’t solve the problem.
We want Pakistan to be an ally.
In fact, I’d go so far as to say that we NEED Pakistan to be an ally.
And if money is what it takes for them to be our ally, then I have no problem giving it to them.
Because it sure beats the alternative (them NOT being an ally and fully supporting the Taliban).
Again, you’re changing the subject.
You mean like the New York Times?
Well, if you want to lower yourself to that, go ahead.
In the meantime I’ll note that while you think that a couple of stray shots means we should go to war with Pakistan, it still remains a fact that we want and need to be allies with Pakistan.
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM
Admittedly I’m a conservative, but I study partisanship and differences in moral outlooks amoung the left and right. I understand how and why liberals think the way they do pretty well. But right now I’m at a loss. I have no idea how any fair-minded person could possibly argue that Obama won this debate. From a conservative perspective, McCain trounced Obama. Even taking into account how other’s might perceive things with their own motivated reasoning, I still can’t imagine anyone arguing Obama actually won. And as an aside why hasn’t anyone brought up that Obama called McCain ‘Tom’ three times?!?
davenp35 on September 27, 2008 at 10:55 AM
McCain had the chance to put this thing away… and didn’t.
First point was when he let Obama say that he was always for deregulation… could have replied in 2005 I cosponsored a bill to reign in Freddie and Fannie…
You wrote a letter….
So, Write legislation, which is a Senator’s Job, or write a letter…
Second time he could have put it away is by calling Barry on his Tax policy, which is nothing more than a one time vote buying BRIBE to 95% of the voters, not a tax DECREASE.
Romeo13 on September 27, 2008 at 10:56 AM
I’ll ask you again:
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Me… twice (so far)
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:59 AM
And if you saw The Ones performance at Ground Zero on 9/11 walking beside John McCain. The rose they were carrying was very symbolic and they were carrying them to an “alter” of sorts. McCain was holding his rose very carefully and respectfully. The One was letting it flop at his side. McCain laid his rose down carefully. The One kinda tossed his. It may sound ugly, but The One does not seem to have a soul.
JonRoss on September 27, 2008 at 11:00 AM
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 10:58 AM
Me, phone and email.
Cindy Munford on September 27, 2008 at 11:01 AM
I do routinely by god, and even my two Republican Senators and my Republican House Member don’t seem to know what the hell they are doing.
JonRoss on September 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Buy Danish on September 27, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Iraqi soldier.
Cindy Munford on September 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM
I e-mailed my worthless Calif. senators Boxer and Feinstein as well as my Rep. Bilbray two days ago. Satisfied?
Patrick S on September 27, 2008 at 11:02 AM
You are an example to the rest of this crew.
If you heave not yet called you representatives and very dorectly told them no taxpayer dollors can be used, and the gov’t must get out of the motgage manipulation business altogether.
Please, do it today. Don’t wait, time is of the essence. Let them now on Nov. 4th you will support those that stoop against comppromise. Let them know you will vote for those who accepted responsibiloty for this debacle.
Otherwise don’t complain, when you get the same ole shit.
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM
ME! Called and emailed.
Romeo13 on September 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Fight the good fight!
Now what about the rest of you?
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 11:06 AM
I also demanded on one red cent for ACORN in any form, any time.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 11:06 AM
This is truly rich… my wife just grabbed today’s mail. She is a registered independent. She has a somewhat expensive piece from the Obama campaign in which he states “Barack Obama is a Washington outsider who has been a leader in ethics reform…”
I was lighting a cigar to go with my last cup of joe and it accidentally caught fire.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM
In McCain’s defense, he was treading pretty carefully arounf the causation factor because the bill still isn’t completed and I doubt he wanted to aggravate too many donks at this point. We’ll see if he lays it out in the next debate which shouldn’t have his hands tied.
a capella on September 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM
I am in Tennessee but I call Pelosi’s office every once in a while and do a little lambasting. I call the “bay area” office and in DC. I know it does no good but is fun to do. The bay area office tells me I shouldn’t call them because I am not a “constituent” and I tell them the speaker is a national figure therefore I am a constituent, they then concede the point briefly then hit the hang up button. I got some goober on the line in DC and he was pissy during the entire conversation.I got much pleasure out of agitating him.
JonRoss on September 27, 2008 at 11:09 AM
Hell I told them that I am tired of being taxed without being represented anymore….and we all know how that worked out for the last taxing party.
Patrick S on September 27, 2008 at 11:10 AM
I have to admit,, I have really, really grown to respect this man. Go figure.
JellyToast on September 27, 2008 at 11:10 AM
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 11:04 AM
This just in, the same ole sh!t is what is running on both sides. Do you honestly think I would vote for Bob Barr, who apparently has thrown all his life long convictions down the tube to remain in the spotlight? Fat chance.
Cindy Munford on September 27, 2008 at 11:10 AM
JellyToast on September 27, 2008 at 10:49 AM
DITTOS
TANCREDO IS ON FIRE
Mercy4Me on September 27, 2008 at 11:10 AM
This is the problem with being such a partisan. Bush’s policies of supporting Musharraf were 100% wrong and have put us in a bad position now. Obama actually brought that point up.
We don’t ‘need Pakistan’. We should have treated Pakistan like Iraq and Afghanistan from GO and conducted the war from India. Pakistan CREATED the Taliban. They are not our friends. They don’t want to be our friends. They want our money. . . and that is all. Other than that, they want us dead – ESPECIALLY THE GOVERNMENT.
No, we don’t need Pakistan to be an ally. That’s the main reason that I thought Obama won the debate. He’s right on Pakistan (future) and McCain is dead wrong because he’s focused on Iraq (which Obama brought up and I agree with Obama on that point).
Obama said Bush and republicans spent all their time on Iraq and let the rest of the world suffer because of that sole focus. I think that line of reasoning will resonate with independents. Bush and Rumsfeld could have finished the war in 2 years if they had fought it right. . . instead, 6 years later, we are still talking about it like it is the future and not the past it needs to be and should have been had the war been conducted right.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Representative Sessions:
you wrote:
Common Sense Plan to Have Wall Street Fund More of the Recovery, Lessen Taxpayer Exposure
- Rather than providing taxpayer funded purchases of frozen mortgage assets to solve this problem, we should adopt a plan to insure mortgage-backed securities through payment of insurance premiums.
- Currently the federal government insures approximately half of all mortgage-backed securities (MBS). We can insure the rest of current outstanding MBS; however, rather than taxpayers funding insurance, the holders of these assets should pay for it. Treasury Department can design a system to charge premiums to the holders of MBS to fully finance this insurance.
What can you do to get government and the taxpayers out of the process entirely? That is where the focus needs to be.
- Limit Federal Exposure for High Risk Loans: Mandate that the GSEs no longer securitize any unsound mortgages.
Better yet, how about not allowing GSEs to securitize anymore loans at all, with the ultimate goal of getting the government out of this business entirely?
The polls this week have been telling you repeatedly, this is what the American tax payers want. Will you please comply?
Let me be perfectly clear, it was not Wall Street that created this mess it was congress and the federal government through those GSEs that did this. We the taxpayers do not want this process to continue. It must be halted. This is not the role of government. This corrupts government officials.
Compromise on this issue is unacceptable.
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 11:17 AM
In a perfect world, yes. But this isn’t a perfect world. You have to grow up a little more and develop a nuanced approach to foreign policy.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 11:24 AM
OK, so you’re saying that we don’t need Pakistan as an ally?
That what we really need is another government in the grip of the Taliban? And this time a government with nuclear weapons?
-sheesh-
1) Iraq and Afghanistan’s governments openly supported terrorism. Pakistan’s government doesn’t.
2) Iraq and Afghanistan were clear and open enemies of the United States and stated so. Pakistan isn’t and wasn’t.
3) Iraq and Afghanistan don’t have nuclear weapons. Pakistan does.
4) Pakistan’s government, contrary to your claim, has not openly stated that they wanted us dead.
Well, obviously if you are so misinformed about Pakistan it is no surprise that you support Obama – who is EQUALLY as misinformed.
The LAST thing the world needs is a nuclear armed Taliban government.
And that is EXACTLY what happens if we make Pakistan an enemy.
-heh-
Again with the ‘fighting it right.’
Let me repeat myself, then:
Funny you should say that since you want to excoriate McCain for bringing up the surge.
The surge is the RIGHT way to fight.
And your buddy, Obama, is STILL against the surge.
You know, the truth is that you and Obama ARE naive when it comes to foreign policy.
Obama wants to unconditionally meet with world leaders that want to kill us, but refused to meet with General Patraeus.
Obama wants to bomb, bomb, bomb…bomb, bomb Pakistan (an ally we need in the War on Terror), but wants to welcome Iran with open arms.
These kinds of thoughts are not only naive, but dangerous.
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM
One of the recurring analyses I’ve seen of this race as a whole posits that because of the huge advantage in macro factors favoring Obama, it is essentially a referendum on him. That the voters are simply waiting to determine whether he meets that certain minimum threshold of “presidential” quality, and if they decide that he does, it will break big for him at the end, much like it did for Reagan against Carter in 1980.
I fear that we have witnessed the beginning of that process last night. Personally, I thought McCain clearly had the stronger performance, if this was a football game it would have been something like a 24-10 victory where the outcome was never seriously in doubt. The emerging consensus among the pundits seemed to be that McCain had the better time of it, but Obama “held his own” and didn’t make any serious mistakes, so that means he ultimately “won” in the strategic sense. The early returns on the polls among undecideds seem to indicate that they are not necessarily judging these debates as a comparative exercise, but rather an evaluation focused on Obama’s performance alone. By that measure, I would concede he stylistically made it over the bar, even if I thoroughly disagree with the substance of nearly every one of his answers. Unfortunately it appears that this is all the public is going to require of him, and against such a current it is going to take nothing less than a full scale implosion from Obama to lose this election. Even if McCain wins the next two debates by similar margins, apparently that will be enough for the public to declare Obama suitably presidential to hold the office.
It’s becoming clear to me that while the public opposes the financial bailout by substantial margins, it is not largely based on a conservative, small government worldview, but rather is being driven by the class warfare based anger that such a bailout would “reward” the Wall St. plutocrats that they inextricably link with the Republican Party, no matter how many high profile Democrats have their fingerprints all over this mess. The simple message of corporate greed and Republican deregulation as the culprits is much easier to understand by the man on the street than the more complex trail of the CRA, Harold Raines, Jim Johnson, Jamie Gorelick, etc. By election day, all we will have left is a strong showing by the base, and if Palin falls on her face against Biden next week, we’ll lose even that. My most optimistic hope at this point is that she will come out of this cycle untarnished, and be in a position to lead us out of the wilderness of what will undoubtedly be a disastrous next four years for our country.
Sorry to be such a downer, and maybe there will be some encouraging polls over the next few days that will change my mood, but my opinion at this point is that we are doomed, doomed.
Dudley Smith on September 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM
Perhap it escaped you that Pakistan is a nuclear power – as is India. Both have been skirmishing since Pakistan was formed from India. Your analysis is dangerously simplistic and naive.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 11:27 AM
You cannot agressively push Pakistan into the open arms of the Jihadists… they have nukes. If you cannot convert them, you must string them along as much as possible until you absolutely must take a confrontational approach. Nukes are more than planes in buildings. Nukes are more than suicide bombers. Nukes are entire cities.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 11:27 AM
Look, Frank Luntz has a cool thing going there with his focus groups, but I don’t believe for a second that they’re undecided. We’ll just have to wait to hear how many of those people are campaign staffers, etc.
Oink on September 27, 2008 at 11:28 AM
The McCain campaign has been good with their ads. I believe that once this bailout BS is behind us one way or another, I believe he’ll come out with guns blazing. He will NOT fizzle out. He will roar across the finish line.
Sarah Palin – she’s not in a media blackout by accident. There’s a plan. McCain knows she’s a media sensation and he’s no dummy. There IS a plan!
Oink on September 27, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Do elaborate…if you can. I’d like to hear this.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 11:31 AM
The Frank Luntz group were parroting Obama campaign talking points. I pay them no mind.
SouthernGent on September 27, 2008 at 11:42 AM
And I suppose cbs should be trusted because “they are good Americans who just have a different idea about what is good for America.”? cbs tried to affect the outcome of the last presidential election, their actions were blatantly criminal, there are very clear laws regarding what they attempted, yet no one was prosecuted and “conservative” pundits are quoting them now as if they are a credible, objective organization.
peacenprosperity on September 27, 2008 at 11:42 AM
I guess you can’t, huh?
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 11:55 AM
Not really. Maybe you are the second longest listener at Hot Air. I’ve listened to Rush since he was hired at KFBK in Sacramento in 1985. I worked with Rush at KFBK.I was his fill in talk show host for nearly 3 years. I did the edit on Rush’s theme song “My City Was Gone” by the Pretenders which Rush still uses each day on his show.
Hoof Hearted on September 27, 2008 at 11:56 AM
McCain won the debate. I thought the best part was when he said, “So let me get this right. We sit down with Ahmadinejad, and he says, “We’re going to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth,” and we say, “No, you’re not”? Oh, please.” That was awesome! I suggest he continues to show how naive Obama is when it comes to recognizing and dealing with threats from Iran, Russia, North Korea, and even Chavez’s Venezuela. One of my fears about Obama (and there are many) but one fear is that sitting across the table from someone who has called Israel a “stinking corpse,” and wants to destroy that country and wipe it off the map, Obama will desensitize himself and America to this type of rampant anti-semitism. He will legitimize mental case Ahmadinejad’s propoganda. Look, these people are SWORN ENEMIES of the United States! Putin, Medvedev, Ahmadinejad; They only negotiate hoping it will bring them one step closer to destroying America! They cannot be trusted!!
apacalyps on September 27, 2008 at 12:04 PM
As I said, McCain won the debate. Now watch the New York Times and the Washington Post, and ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and the whole alphabet soup of bolshevik media, who DO NOT represent the silent majority of this country, watch as they now try and spin it Obama’s way with their faux polls. I tuned into CNN after the debate last night. Incredible to just sit and listen to those paid liars, it’s… it’s just so disgusting. Do you know what you’re doing to your country! You’re destroying this country! You ignorant fools! All the evil people that have brought tradegy and horror to this world! All these evil people. Democrat and Republican! Liberals and so-called conservatives! All of them. These political whores! They DO NOT represent the silent majority of this country. There’s a silent majority in America that actually wants politically incorrect truth to be told for a change. They are SICK AND TIRED of this politically correct straightjacket of fascistic censorship that we have been given in this country! All these evil people. Democrat and Republican! Liberals and so-called conservatives! All of them. These political whores! They’re destroying this country!
apacalyps on September 27, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Maestro Luntz and his FakeFraudPhony Orchestra try, but fail to fill the seats with their performance. IMHO.
blue sky on September 27, 2008 at 12:15 PM
The more and more I re-see parts of the debate from last night, the more and more I’m convinced McCain schooled Obama.
davenp35 on September 27, 2008 at 12:19 PM
This is a smallish point on debate tactics that perhaps someone has touched upon already, but I’ll ask anyway.
I think most people find the use of your opponent’s first name in a formal, yet adversarial, context (like a debate) to be somewhere between out of place and wildly inappropriate. McCain’s tactic of continuing to address O! in the more formal and respectful way is a good one, imho, as it helps highlight his opponent’s disrespectful approach.
Of course, the purpose of calling Sen. McCain “John” is to bring him down to O!’s level (or O! up to his) — and you can argue that since they are both in the Senate, they are equals. McCain doesn’t concede anything by calling O! Senator as he is clearly the senior colleague. In contrast, O! looks like the pimply-faced boyfriend who tries to act cool by addressing his girlfriend’s dad by his first name.
Anyway, my question is, can Biden use this tactic during his debate with Gov. Palin without it backfiring? Biden exudes condescension all the time, but if he pulls the “Sarah” tactic I think it will really stand out. After all, he and Gov. Palin are not peers, nor are they friends or friendly rivals (have they ever even met before?), so it will really stand out.
What do you think he’ll do? It’s hard to imagine him calling her Governor during the debate? Will he resort to Mrs.?
Y-not on September 27, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Good point… and if I was Palin I’d make a point of it BEFORE the debate…
“My Freinds call me Sarah, you can call me Gov. Palin” would be an appropriate response.
Romeo13 on September 27, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Hey, Allah.
How come no mention about the Drudge Report poll?
Kokonut on September 27, 2008 at 12:29 PM
And you still have people who are challenging him; when you look inside the words, what do they really mean? Quite frankly, we don’t know the answer to that, but the words are powerful.
This paragraph could be applied to Lunz himself. He has the amazing applause-o-meter where his hand selected folk beat with the pulse of the nation.
Right
It is so wrong to tell me my blood pressure immediately after I have absorbed new information, but to take the readings from the guy next door. Feedback. Response.
Makes me think of the rigged audiences in the Schwarzenegger film Running Man
The Lunz machine is so wrong but plays to the egotism of the public in the same way a fortune teller massages her customers with ego stroking feedback.
The hooked fish is easier to skin and eat
entagor on September 27, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Oh WTF. “I am not interested in his history I want to focus on the now.”
How wise. If people are still undecided by now they are freaking idiot John Paul Stevens attention whores. MAKE UP YOUR MIND on the issues Obama and McCain are 180 apart.
FFS.
MarcusBrody on September 27, 2008 at 12:34 PM
What do we have to do to beat Obama?
mindhacker on September 27, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Luntz’s focus group was a waste. Where are the independents?
Sir Andrew on September 27, 2008 at 12:42 PM
Luntz had an interesting going for awhile with these focus groups. Unfortunately, they’ve been deliberately infiltrated by dishonest leftists posing as undecideds, and as a result, have become not only useless, but dangerously deceptive. FOX should drop their contract with him.
By the way, is anyone REALLY going to watch Huckabee’s new show?
Connie on September 27, 2008 at 12:51 PM
You can’t possibly believe that Custer is losing to those stupid Indians. It can’t be possible that Custer didn’t have a single man survive, right? Those Indians won’t be nearly as incompetent as the settlers claim. . . what’s more worriesome is that Custer won’t be nearly as good.
Murphy9 on September 27, 2008 at 12:57 PM
For one thing, it was obvious from the interviews with the two initial “I’m for Obama” women at the beginning of the video that anyone can SAY that they’re undecided…
…and the gal who said that she wasn’t interested in McCain’s past, but was interested in what’s happening now, really got under my skin. Does this meat puppet realize that you can be as prepared and polished ans a railroad clock, but unravel at the first hurdle if you haven’t got the character to back up your assetions…it’s called “ass in britches syndrome”…something Obama suffers from….
One question, rather key: how in the wide,wide world of sports — what with the financial imbroglio going on today, being at war in two rather nasty countries, with racial accusations being thrown about like confetti, with gender accusations being thrown with the other hand — can anyone, and I do mean ANYWONE be “undecided”?????
…it reveals a very, very weak moral compass; an inexcusable disinterest in or appalling ignorance of the world around you; or that you’ve lived in a sealed mayonnaise jar under your granny’s back porch for the last 18 months.
…I hate these sorts of people…they’re the sorts who stand in the narrowest grocery aisle, cart parked sideways to block the greatest number of shoppers, musing over the competing merits of two barely indistinguishable cans of peas.
I don’t recommend snap decisions in important matters — and who’s going to have the brief to appoint the 2 or 3 Supreme Court justices we might possibly need in the next 4-8 yars is damned important — but after 18 months and a lifetime up ’til at least 18 years (and a few people in that focus group look as if it’s been 18 years since they last actually made a decision) — you’re bound to have some opinion…a phrase ending with “or get off the pot” comes to mind here….
…add these zeros to the folks — often a majority — who don’t actually vote, and we have an appalling lack of civic involvement goin’ on here…or, in some cases, “reaality involvement” with some of ‘em.
I’d bet that, if this were “American Idol” they’d be able to decide tout suite! “Obama’s cuter, vote Mac off the island!”
Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 1:10 PM
…rather like athlete’s foot or cockroaches, isn’t he?
…he’s got quite the coalition going: media, academia, international and internationalist chattering classes, the foolish, the selfish, the grievance vote…in short, everybody who’s got a bone to pick with the folks…he’s slick, he’s well tutored, he’s got handlers and mentors out the yang…
…in short, he’s the modern Jack Kennedy…all style and glitz, while inside as rotten as a wormy apple…he seems enormous…wide as the sea…but, in truth, as shallow as the dew….
…if he wins, we’ll have those willfully ignorant “undecided”’s to blame…no background, no interest, no loyalties, no judgment…just a franchise because they draw breath….
Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 1:18 PM
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