Luntz focus group: Who won the debate? Update: CBS poll of undecideds says Obama wins
posted at 9:26 am on September 27, 2008 by Allahpundit
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A Rorschach reaction, unsurprisingly. Hopefully we’ll have some quickie overnight polls to chew on later this morning.
The good news? Sounds like Maverick might have turned The One into a McCain voter. Click the image to watch.
Update: Why, here’s a poll already. Grim, but the 14-point spread between Dems and GOPers makes it pretty much useless.
Update: 39/24 for Obama among undecideds, says CBS. Yeesh.
Update: A focus group of undecideds run by a Democratic pollster also shows Obama winning by a margin similar to the one in CBS’s poll.
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Great Ad! Allah sounds like you’re feeling a bit better. Be honest, don’t you think McCain outperformed Bush. Don’t you remember the angish of the Bush debates. We thought we’d die. McCain did better than Bush and Obama did about as well as Kerry. I’ll take that anyday.
sophiesmom on September 27, 2008 at 9:31 AM
Luntz’s Dunces? They are a bunch of liberals they rounded up in Las Vegas. They literally do no nothing but spout Obama talking points.
Fox News seems invested in an Obama victory. I guess somebody is worried about a real sheriff riding into Washington, targeting corruption.
McCain won the debate substantively and stylistically. Obama will remain ahead in the polls, but a serious crack has developed in his campaign’s foundation. People are starting to ask why the emperor has no clothes.
indythinker on September 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Good to know Mccain thrashed Obama’s ass. Allah, for all of our sake, please learn some stoicism and don’t spoil next week’s debate even if Sarah doesn’t match up to your exacting standards. Please.
promachus on September 27, 2008 at 9:35 AM
The Drudge poll is so overwhelmingly McCain that I wouldn’t trust any other smaller ones about the debate itself. Sure it’s Drudge, but it’s not like the brownshirts that call radio stations on behalf of Barry can’t click a link. Personally, I thought Mav took Barry to school and I think that will be the developing storyline.
***If*** we get a reasonable deal on the bailout and ***if*** the markets respond and ***if*** The ‘Cuda whups The Gaffemaster, I see McCain up by a good margin end of next week.
Typhoon on September 27, 2008 at 9:37 AM
My take exactly. Personally, I don’t think either candidate was a clear victor last night. Obama was surprisingly confident, although completely wrong on his ideas. McCain didn’t seem like a tired old man and showed great fight.
I’d like to see the media make something of Obama’s “me, too” bracelet moment where he had to look down to read the guy’s name. But they won’t.
flipflop on September 27, 2008 at 9:37 AM
My exacting standards about coherent answers? Don’t worry, I’m staying far away from the TV that night.
The Freepers were freeping the hell out of Drudge’s poll within minutes after it went up last night. I saw multiple threads devoted to it. It’s worthless.
Allahpundit on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 AM
I think Luntz was infiltrated again, look for news of Dem plants in the focus group. Their take seems to go against most conventional wisdom out there. McCain clearly won the debate.
echosyst on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 AM
I’m beginning to see the wisdom in your pessimism, Allah. Since embracing the dark side yesterday, this padawan actually feels liberated. Thank you.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Agreed. BO won the financial part, & McCain won the foreign policy.
jgapinoy on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 AM
our nation is full of… oh I can’t even bother… that was not undecided voters… who stuttered all night? Jim? Tom Bob… I mean Senator McCain… oh please… Obama lost his ass and agreed with McCain 8 times… this was a grand-slam and everyone is spinning it to the One…
Kaptain Amerika on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 AM
I say that not because BO was more correct in the first part, but that he connected better with the under-informed public.
jgapinoy on September 27, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Agreed.
That blond ditz says that she thought Bambi did’nt strutter and McCain did.
Was she watching the same debate as me? Or too buzy drinking the Bambi Kool-Aid to notice?
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on September 27, 2008 at 9:40 AM
Thank you, Allah. Even better why don’t you take a trip to Switzerland on Thursday and be sure to come back next Monday? After Monday, we will start missing you.
promachus on September 27, 2008 at 9:41 AM
I passed on the debate simply because of this nonsense. Irrespective of the fact that the MSM will tell us that the lefty won, the notion that the candidate who “performed” the best wins, thus they should be elected based on the least amount of slips, stutters, whatever, is ludicrous. Since Martin Sheen, George Clooney, or whoever, are better speakers (while reading a script of course), they’re more qualified?
perroviejo on September 27, 2008 at 9:41 AM
I always turn the TV off after the debates. I might listen to a couple of minutes of the talking heads, but the focus groups mean nothing to me.
I think McCain won.
I realize I am biased, but who says these aren’t?
For instance Obama’s take on the present financial crisis was so partisan as to be comical. Bush did not regulate, Bush bad..well where the hell has Congress been for the last few years? Laying on a beach sunning themselves?
I am not saying that people will not hold Bush at least partly responsible, but come on everyone knows it is more complicated than that if all Obama can say is Bush bad me good, how does that deal with the problem? People want answers and solutions.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:42 AM
I agree with Allah on the Drudge Poll it was 76% 18% right after the debate minutes later… and now it’s sliding down… but I would think both sides are pumping it hard…
we all know it leans Right and will be a target of the left.
Kaptain Amerika on September 27, 2008 at 9:42 AM
They aught to just go ahead and name it “The Luntz Greenhouse Group”
AnthonyK on September 27, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Meh.
Slanted, distorted polls from liberal outlets to try to push our impression of the debate.
Gee.
Never would have seen that coming.
ClintACK on September 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM
“Undecided”, at this point in the campaign especially, by it’s very nature implies someone who equivicates on a subject. Another way to say it….Liberal.
dugan on September 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM
{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?…
MCCAIN 67% 176,817
OBAMA 31% 80,565
NEITHER 2% 6,047
Total Votes: 263,429
Didn’t Gore and Kerry lead almost every single poll up til the elections? But they lost.
Polls mean squat. The GOP is fired up, and will turn out for this one, handing McCain the presidency.
rightside on September 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Save me a seat. She’s hard to watch…
repvoter on September 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM
JIUQUAN, China (AP) — A Chinese astronaut on Saturday performed the nation’s first-ever spacewalk, the latest milestone in an ambitious program that is increasingly rivaling the United States and Russia in its rapid expansion.
Mission commander Zhai Zhigang floated out of the orbiter module’s hatch in the spacewalk, shown live on state broadcaster CCTV. Tethered to handles attached to the Shenzhou 7 ship’s orbital module’s exterior, Zhai remained outside for about 13 minutes before climbing back inside and closing the hatch behind him.
Jim: “Now let’s change course here, since we’re all about ‘change’ these days. What would you do as President if Chine were to put their nuclear weapons in space?”
Mac: “Well Jim, this is why we need anti-missile defense, we never know what challenges we might face in the future and we should be prepared to meet them head on. I just don’t think sen. Obama has the experience to handle such a situation.”
Zero: “I think John is absolutely righ.”
Tony737 on September 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Half Bush and half Kerry voters. Do ya think that the ones who claimed that Obama won voted for Kerry? Seriously, I figure that these people had a chance to go on TV and measured their answers very carefully during the screening process.
perroviejo on September 27, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Be sure and vote at Drudge
http://www.drudgereport.com/
I can’t even believe how the evil liberal media
is handling this. Journalism is dead.
McCain wiped the floor up with “Apollo”
And even with CBS MSNBC NBS CNN ABC and almost every newspaper in the tank for Obama and lying their faces off
OBAMA IS STILL GOING TO LOSE.
lisalj on September 27, 2008 at 9:44 AM
anyone like Metallica? anyone see this new War Video they made? Jawa gets the hat/tip…
Kaptain Amerika on September 27, 2008 at 9:44 AM
When did Luntz quit giving out the names of participants? Oh yea! When they destroyed his credibility and were proven to not be “Undecided: voters….
AnthonyK on September 27, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Considering that the MSM is in the tank for Obama…
…for them to say that it was a tie really means that McCain won.
And I’m also puzzled about the prevailing notion this morning that nothing ‘memorable’ happened.
The “Ooo, ooo, ooo, TEACHER!!!! I have a bracelet, too!!!” line is VERY memorable.
I hope McCain uses it to his advantage (”John McCain has real experience and real leadership. Obama has a bracelet.”)
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Again, there’s only one poll that matters, and it’s on November 5th.
(You should sticky this note to the top of every thread where Allah or Ed is fretting about polling numbers.)
The Dean on September 27, 2008 at 9:45 AM
yeah notice him saying… we were very very careful… choosing these undecided Kerry voters…
Kaptain Amerika on September 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Allah:
The Drudge poll is probably as close to reality as this focus group.
No kidding, I thought Obama looked weird. I mean he was making faces and getting all pissed and stumbling around and acting all frustrated and rattled. That is why I think McCain won. He did not blink.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Allah,
That is one thing about you sir that I admire greatly….and that it your brutal sobering honesty.
It’s one thing to be a Conservative, it’s another to be drinking Murdoch’s Kool-Aid or even worse, the G.O.P’s.
That is why I read your posts. Because, when you write. You don’t sound like you’ve got your head stuck up the G.O.P’s behind.
Bless you Sir, and keep up the good work.
-LC
LibertarianConservative on September 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM
***November 4th, I mean.
The Dean on September 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM
read the CBS poll was done online, only 500 people. someone had it on Ace last night.
also, LA Times had a focus group of 9 Dems and 5 Republicans in Penn. and they gave victory to McCain
jp on September 27, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Talk about having a “blond”moment. That woman had to been watching a different debate!
becki51758 on September 27, 2008 at 9:48 AM
If I want credible political analysis, the last place I’ll look is a Luntz focus group.
backwoods conservative on September 27, 2008 at 9:50 AM
undecided, my ass.
ExTex on September 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Memorable: “You’re no Jack Kennedy.” “I won’t, for political purposes, exploit my opponents youth and inexperience.”
perroviejo on September 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM
It’s sliding down, but not by much. I’m afraid I’d have to question just how many freepers there are, just how in love they are with McCain, just how much effort they want to put into gaming that poll, and if there are any of Barry’s buddies doing anything similar.
At this pint, even if you take 80,000 votes off the total as tainted, you still have McCain up by 20 grand.
Typhoon on September 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM
AP – step away from the vehicle, slowly, and repeat after me : Sarah will screw up – Sarah will screw up. Feel better?
Fuquay Steve on September 27, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Dukakis led Bush by 17 points in August ‘88.
perroviejo on September 27, 2008 at 9:53 AM
I’m completely confused on Obama’s postitions these days.
Now does Obama support missle defense or not?
Is Obama for nuclear power or not? Proper disposal of nuclear waste or not?
“I will meet with anyone at any place at anytime to ensure our security” Does this mean Obama will or won’t meet with dubious national leaders without precondition?
Is this guy wavering like a reed in the wind? Does he even know his own mind?
burnitup on September 27, 2008 at 9:54 AM
From the Politico…
John McCain was very lucky that he decided to show up for the first presidential debate in Oxford, Miss., Friday night. Because he gave one of his strongest debate performances ever.
While Barack Obama repeatedly tried to link McCain to the very unpopular George W. Bush, Bush’s name will not be on the ballot in November and McCain’s will.
And McCain not only found a central theme but hit on it repeatedly. Obama is inexperienced, naive, and just doesn’t understand things, McCain said.
Sure, McCain is a pretty old guy for a presidential candidate, but he showed the old guy did not mind mixing it up. He stood behind a lectern for 90 minutes without a break — you try that when you are 72 — and he not only gave as good as he got, he seemed to relish it more.
At least twice after sharp attacks by McCain, Obama seemed to look to moderator Jim Lehrer for help, saying to Lehrer, “Let’s move on.”
True, the majority of the debate was fought on McCain’s strongest ground: foreign affairs. And true, McCain’s feet were not held to the fire as to why he urged the postponement of the debate in order to secure a financial bailout package in Washington, but then decided to show up without any such agreement in hand.
But it didn’t seem to matter much. McCain just pounded away on his central argument: Obama just didn’t “understand” how to deal with Pakistan; how dangerous it is to meet with foreign leaders without preconditions; how serious the Russian invasion of Georgia was; the price of failure in Iraq.
“He doesn’t understand, he doesn’t get it,” McCain said of Obama, also saying, “There is a little bit of naiveté here.”
It was as if McCain was paying Obama back for that moment in Obama’s acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention when Obama said McCain would not serve America well, “not because John McCain doesn’t care; it’s because John McCain doesn’t get it.”
But McCain seemed to get it Friday night. He certainly knew enough to try to turn his age into a plus and not a minus. “There are some advantages to experience, knowledge and judgment,” McCain said.
Obama did not just stand there like a punching bag. He landed some blows of his own. Obama said the financial crisis we are in today is a “final verdict on eight years of failed economic policies promoted by George Bush, supported by Sen. McCain.”
And when McCain delivered a scripted zinger — “Sen. Obama has the most liberal voting record in the United States Senate; it’s hard to reach across the aisle when you’re that far to the left” — Obama replied: “Mostly that’s me opposing George Bush’s wrongheaded policies.”
Obama eventually realized that McCain had to be attacked not just for his ties to George Bush but also for his own record, and Obama accused McCain of saying the Iraq war “was going to be quick and easy” and that weapons of mass destruction would be found.
“You were wrong,” Obama said.
But McCain attacked back. “I understand why Sen. Obama was surprised and saddened that the surge succeeded beyond his wildest expectations,” he said.
McCain seemed to be enjoying himself. He smiled a lot, mostly when Obama was talking, though his smile was really more like a smirk.
Debate audiences are the largest audiences the candidates get — far larger than their announcement or convention speeches — and millions of Americans were seeing the two candidates up close and at length for the first time.
Both avoided their negative stereotypes: Obama did not seem aloof or condescending. McCain did not seem erratic or wild. You could imagine either one of them in the Oval Office, but only one is going to get there.
“I don’t need any on-the-job training,” McCain said. “I am ready to go at it right now.”
He certainly seemed like it Friday night.
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Anyone who is undecided at this point is either being coy with pollsters or is a bona fide member of the Idjit Voter Demographic.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Earlier in the evening, I read where Senator Kennedy had been taken to the hospital. When the debate was preparing to begin, I told my wife that if Senator Obama is first to speak, he will completely ignore Senator Kennedy’s situation and that Senator McCain would speak first of his concern for Senator Kennedy before moving on.
Just like clockwork….
The complete and total self-focus of Senator Obama speaks volumes. I have money talking that says if Senator Kennedy lives long enough to cast his vote, he will do so for McCain. We will never know, but then again we will.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Why is the one soldier wearing Fidel Castro’s cap?
Buy Danish on September 27, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Indythinker says:
I have seen a trend here myself. They have taken this balance thing a bit far. O’Reilly chumming it up with Obama was a disgrace. Hannity is swimming alone over on Fox now.
Re: debate, I’ve seen a few in my time and after a somewhat shakey start McCain blew the kid away, no contest.
As for Luntz, he was testing his group in a Vegas hotel.
Even conservatives are liberal when visiting Las Vegas. Give me a break.
FireBlogger on September 27, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Typhoon:
I agree and besides the same thing could be said for a lot of these polls. Most of the media polls done right after a debate are not scientific.
That does not mean most people won’t see it is a tie or something, but all these polls have an element of chance to them.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Fire:
I think Brit Hume is pretty fair.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:57 AM
It’s whatever their polling says will help him win.
Loxodonta on September 27, 2008 at 9:57 AM
“Obama didn’t stutter” says wild-eyed lady.
Right….
BKennedy on September 27, 2008 at 9:57 AM
Listened to the debate on radio to listen for content and McCain won. McCain held his temper in check, showed proper respect for his opponent, and got him to stumble and hem and haw on several occasions. Obama dug himself deeper into lacking any credibility, showed no respect for Sen. McCain which tells me he has no respect for anything except himself.
Then watched it on TV with the sound off to watch body language. Obama showed of his elitist mindset and agitation at having to be there. McCain did not look at Obama, brings to mind that that was how he was able to maintain his temper, and wanted to stay in touch with the audience.
Have watched closely the Lutz Group, and am impressed that they are doing more adding credibility to the art of polling.
MSGTAS on September 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM
A few words of wisdom for those who are “hung-up” on polls…
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_092608/content/01125110.member.html
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 9:59 AM
McCain sounded like a guy who’s still desperate to shake the ghost of Vietnam, and I think it’ll emerge that he singlehandedly threw away whatever support from women he may had added with Palin – who incidentally, has to be ‘hitting a brick realizing she isn’t going get away with the cutesy sarcasm against Biden.
No one doubts McCain has the balls to nuke half the world if he gets pissed enough. The problem is, it really is the economy people are voting on and he still sounds like a guy who’s never worked a private sector job in his life and hasn’t a clue about those who do.
sanguine4 on September 27, 2008 at 9:59 AM
First of all, if the MSM talking heads are calling it a draw, then it’s a clear McC win.
Second, no one ever remembers all the details of important life experiences. Rather, in a form of mental shorthand, people merely retain a handful of memorable moments that serve to define the entire experience.
On that note, wait until Husseins’ two key bumbles filter into the electorate’s consciousness:
1. “You don’t know the difference between military tactics and strategy.” Johnny Mac
2. “I have a bracelet, too.” Barack Obama
kuhio on September 27, 2008 at 9:59 AM
The public perception of the debate will trend in Mac’s favor as the holes in Barry’s arguments come to light.
pugwriter on September 27, 2008 at 9:59 AM
I think Luntz is worthless honestly.
Spirit of 1776 on September 27, 2008 at 10:01 AM
First of all, how many in these samples are PRETENDING to be “undecided?”
Second, why have a 14-point spread unless you are attempting to get the poll results you want?
Last, does anyone trust these polls anymore?
Exactly. If liberals think it was a “draw,” they lost big. That bracelet line was embarrassing. It would make a great ad, as well as the lie about Henry Kissinger. That is a huge error to come right out and lie in a debate.
Gabe on September 27, 2008 at 10:02 AM
I agree on the “change” in Fox News seeming to give Senator Obama much more slack than Senator McCain. However, my take on why may be a bit different. I believe the are fully aware that Senator Obama is going to lose and probably lose big. They want to have given the appearance of having no part in that loss.
Of course, they are wrong. The day after the election, when everything is hashed through over and over, Fox News will be identified as one of the key reasons (whether they like it or not). Look at John McCain. He has been a friend of the MSM and the left. They sure are returning that respectful behavior now.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:02 AM
I look forward to 4 years of McCain talking down to everyone like he talked to Obama. We NEED amnesty because you are just naive. If you don’t agree with me that we can’t fight Pakistan but must fight Russia, you are naive.
The debate last night sounded like two senators debating. Senators never sound presidential. I just wish McCain didn’t sound so much like a senator (but that’s all he knows how to do).
But I am an independent. I’m working for my GOP governor’s campaign. I thought Obama won because McCain spent all of his time talking about the past. Obama spent most of his time talking about the future. That’s the difference to me. I don’t care what has happened, I care what’s going to happen.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:03 AM
ABC News’ website factchecking found 4 BO errors to McCain’s 1.
jgapinoy on September 27, 2008 at 10:04 AM
And why isn’t anyone angry with McCain for using the death of a soldier for his own purposes? That doesn’t seem creepy to you guys? Exploit the dead soldiers to ‘prove’ that we need to lose more soldiers?
I thought the entire ‘bracelet’ routine was lame for both sides.
Obama had an American flag pin. . . McCain did not – any significance there? McCain not patriotic?
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:07 AM
sanguine:
Obama has not worked in the private sector either. I think maybe he was a regular lawyer for two or three years. And his running mate has been in government since 1972.
Sarah Palin is the person who has spent the most time in the private sector and has even run a business and a home, but while that might have been appealing to a lot of conservatives who can identify with her it has not shown broad appeal to people who are concerned about the economy.
And I think that while people might lean toward Democrats when it comes to economic issues, I also think that people hold the Congress just about as responsible for economic problems as it does the president.
And Wall Street and all those greedy people who fleeced the system were in fact very much private sector themselves.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Oh look! Hope and Change. Sounds independent to me. Were you in the Luntz focus group? Here’s a future change. Higher taxes on corporations… maybe we can move from 2nd highest in the world to 1st. Then, those few remaining evil corporations will have to take the remaining jobs offshore too! That’s change you can believe in.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Interesting. Because last night even Kos was saying that it was at least a draw.
terryannonline on September 27, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Me no can access the site, Keemo-sabe. Need heap big password.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:09 AM
B.O. won.
Fortunately for most of you out there, you won’t know the difference in governing style between a sell out liberal republican and a socialist democrat.
John McCain is so depressing, he keeps right on speaking his own mind no matter what the people he is supposed to represent say. For example, everytime I turn around now, some talking head for McCain is saying how he is going to end partisanship and reach accross the aisle. That is a nice way of saying sell out.
I dont want a sell out. I don’t want him to compromise conservative values by caving into liberal socialists. But that is what he does best.
This time however, it ain’t gonna matter, becuase he isn’t going to be president.
Perhaps there is a silver lining in all this. With B.O. as president for 4 years, he will bankrupt the treasury, negotiate away our standing in the world, and bring jihadism back to America with a vengeance.
After four years of that crap, just maybe all of you will wake up. Just maybe you won’t settle for voting for the lessor of two jerks. Just maybe you won’t allow your party leadership to hand select for you another compromise candidate. I can dream can’t I? I can hope too.
paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 10:10 AM
I’m up early on Sat. morning working on my first pot of coffee and getting in touch with my day (and country) and you show up with the “Idjit” voter thingy and almost made me spill my coffee. Thanks for the morning laugh and wake up call Manly.
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on September 27, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Yeah. Obama is a shallow, opportunistic, empty suit who has already proven how hollow he is on the flag-pin issue. As for McCain, his creds are suffiiently established to obviate the need for a flag pin – and he has the scars to prove it.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Okay, ManlyRash, unzip your wallet, blow away the moths, then pay the 25 bucks or so to join….
;)
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM
undecided, my ass.
ExTex on September 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Those people were NOT undecided! The no-depth morons will pick Obambi. People with character and principles will go McCain. I’m always right, just ask my husband!
Mercy4Me on September 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM
The race is on to spin the debate for Obama …
Watch he MSM turn itself inside out to put The One one top.
darwin on September 27, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Thacker:
You can not be serious.
For one thing, let us not forget, that Obama had his bracelet too, yes he did. me too me too.
No, I think McCain was speaking honestly. I think that it really is important that these soldiers not feel like they lost. That might be because of the way he saw military treated back in the days of Viet Nam.
Besides, the left has been feeding off the misery of others for years. Especially dead people. They just can not help themselves. Talk about creepy.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:13 AM
You forgot to add that you are a “concerned Christian.”
I love the smell of astroturfing in the morning.
It smells like victory.
Religious_Zealot on September 27, 2008 at 10:13 AM
If you don’t care what happened, you will never understand what’s going to happen. or why.
Corsair on September 27, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Any word on the the ratings of the debate? I know that the talking heads think that they are so very important but I have a problem visualizing people tuning in. Historically I think the “winners” of debates have mixed results at the voting booth.
Cindy Munford on September 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Truly spoken like one of the fools suffering from Santayana’s Curse.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Hell, Obama actually has an ad using the parents of a dead soldier.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM
If Obama HAD any significant accomplishments in his past, you know damn good and well we would have heard all about them. He had no other option but to tell us what he will do. Like he’s always done….but yet never delivered.
Patrick S on September 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
The local fishwrap this morning reported on the impressions of four local “undecided” voters, all of whom came away leaning to Obama after the debate. Sidebar articles picked up from AP purported to “fact check” statements made by the candidates during the debate. McCain was wrong, wrong, wrong. On those in which Obama was flat wrong, they spilled a lot of ink trying to spin the sublte nuanced explanation that would justify his lies. Right off the DNC fax machine talking points.
Folks, this is always how it is and will be for Republicans, even liberal Rs like McMaverick.
All that said, Obama “won” the debate not because of what he said or didn’t say, but becuase he is articulate, has a mellifluous voice, and projects an attractive physical image. In the world of TV, and now You Tube, that’s all it really takes to be leader of the free world.
Didn’t Michael Dever already prove the power of image with Reagan?
FalseProfit on September 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Oh Caped, you are just naive. You don’t think that McCain will be just as liberal as Obama if he’s elected with a Democrat filibuster proof Senate AND House?
I’ll take a line out of the ‘great debater’ for you here. You are just naive Caped Crusader. See how well that argument works in a substantive debate? McCain used it about 10 times in an hour and a half.
You can’t possibly believe that McCain is losing in the polls. It can’t be possible that Obama has a single vote, right? Obama won’t be nearly as bad as the Republicans claim. . . what’s more worriesome is that McCain won’t be nearly as good.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
What Manly said… and, further:
Obama began speaking… no mention of Senator Kennedy’s trip to the hospital yesterday. McCain? Oh, first thing he addressed before responding to Obama’s “me me me me me” intro was to wish Kennedy well. Speak volumes about both men.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
First of all, who at this stage of the game is “undecided” . . . what cave have they been living in and why did they decide to crawl out last night? As for CBS, I wouldn’t trust or believe that left wing propaganda machine any farther than I could throw it.
I just rechecked the “Drudge” on line poll and the results were 67% McCain and 30% Obama. I understand that on line polls lack stringent controls but when you sample over one quarter of a million people the sampling errors tend to smooth and you would see a regression towards the mean. I would suspect that this poll is as valid and reliable as any of the mathematical garbage produced by the media. In fact it could well be much less biased than the media polls. McCain won this debate and the media will be hard pressed to deny it and still maintain any reasonable credibility . . . but I’m sure they will try just as CBS has done.
rplat on September 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
I suspect tha the ratings will be high, but the demographic will include older folks and those interested in the future of their nation. The Idjit demographic was doing its thing at area nightclubs.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
paulsor says BO won, that makes it official..McCain must be the winner because the Paulbot is always wrong……I feel better now.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Why anyone would put any faith whatsoever in any poll produced by a media entity, in this day & age and after everything we’ve come to understand about “leanings” is kinda funny to me.
It’s been my “pet believe” for about a decade now that we’ve had “Concerned Christians” in these positions to skew these numbers. Particularly in recent years, and as each of the networks has lost chunks to the web in share.
McCain did well from what I saw in round one. Adjustments, baby.
ChipDWood on September 27, 2008 at 10:18 AM
McCain is still running on ‘the surge is working’. He needs to run on ‘the surge worked, we won, lets come home’. He’s stuck on ‘the surge (from last year) is working’.
Do we still need to stick to those talking points or can we move forward from there?
Also, McCain says Pakistan is our friend. Are we still there? REALLY? How many of our other friends actually fire on our troops? I much prefer Obama’s stance in Afghanistan and Pakistan to McCain’s (muddle through and stay the course) mentality.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:18 AM
Obama, in fact, will be even worse. The man is dangerous and must be kept out of the White House. As for McCain – he’s a known quantity with a 20 year track record. We all know what we are getting, but we are also adults who understand that most things in life require some compromise.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Pull your pants up. We all know what you are doing. Also wouldn’t hurt to wash your hands.
a capella on September 27, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Debates really don’t matter. By the time the candidates are out of the building, the spinners have taken over. I’m a McCain guy, and thought he won the debate. Frankly, it would have been hard for me to think he lost. Just like, I’m sure, Obamaphiles think fervently that their guy won. Big whoop.
There ARE NO UNDECIDEDS left people. Only folks who like the attention from pretending to not have made their mind up yet.
Get ready to see, hear, and read some of Obama’s greatest hits (Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Michelle’s proud moment, ties to Fannie and Freddie etc.) in steady rotation over the next few weeks.
The media will make this look close up and until election day, when Maverick wins going away.
Sugar Land on September 27, 2008 at 10:20 AM
I thought Obama won because McCain spent all of his time talking about the past. Obama spent most of his time talking about the future. That’s the difference to me. I don’t care what has happened, I care what’s going to happen.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Actually this–whether you’re regurgitating it or not–has developed as one of Barry’s talking points.
However what I’d point out is that the reason is simply that Barry has no record of accomplishments on which to stand.
For that reason, he had not much else to offer than well-rehearsed lines about what he will do, to the point that even when Lehrer asked him where’d he’d need to cut back, all he could do was recite his list of what he’s going to spend.
Typhoon on September 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM
The Phildelphia Inquirer was very subdued today and it’s been a pretty big cheerleader for Obama. The big story here was Sarah Palin showing up at a Philly bar wearing a Phillies jacket and looking great!
I heard some of the comments from the spin room on the radio, and it sure sounded to me like the McCain people were much happier with their guy’s preformance than the Obama people were. Obama did not make much of a case for change, and McCain landed repeated blows on Obama for being naive and unready.
Obama ran a 2-minute ad here in Philly at 12:25 a.m. at the end of the Letterman show. Just him talking, getting back to his original Hopenchange rhetoric. It would have been a good ad if he had run it a few times in primetime before going negative and lying his ass off in all the other ads he is showing here. And he ran no ads during the evening news after the debate. I thought that was very odd.
rockmom on September 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM
That’s a CBS/Knowledge Networks poll.
Knowledge was the same outfit that ran that online poll claiming a third of Democrats to be racist and wouldn’t vote for Obama.
They also released a poll earlier this week parroting Obama’s foreign policy line. A poll that just happened to be released by a group which has Michelle Obama on its board.
Not to dismiss it entirely, but I have my suspicions.
JammieWearingFool on September 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM
I hate to say this because I like to think charitably of others, but I view “undecideds” or “independents” as odd.
It seems to be a mild form of retardation. I am totally serious. Take the one girl who said “McCain is all about the past, and Obama is about the future.”
Come on now. Granted this girl has a thoughtful view of the world and how to solve the world’s problems. But is she seriously trying to tell us that it wasn’t until LAST NIGHT that she suddenly realized that Obama was her man?
That’s like going through life thinking “gee I like to eat sweet and frosty treats…” and then all at once you smack yourself in the head. Oh my God! I just realized I like ice cream!
This isn’t a freaking discovery, it’s a tautology.
Chick: “I’m all about the future, man, and holy crap, I just realized that I’m gonna vote for Obama.”
Undecideds and independents suffer from a disorder of some kind, and I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.
In any event, Luntz is a putz and is one of the reasons I can’t stomach Fox News anymore.
jeff_from_mpls on September 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Thacker:
You know what pissed me off about Obama? We are in this financial crisis thingee and all he could do was cover his ass and exploit the situation. Regulations the man said???How stupid is that? either he is not aware of how all this began and what to do about it or he is a liar.
Neither of which inspires confidence.
I was a realtor back in the 90s when these loans really started being made and the Democrats were oh so proud of their efforts to make homeownership available to low income and minorities. When things were going well, they owned it all.
And then when the fit hits the shan, what do they do? They blame Bush. Obama yammers on about regulations,blah blah blah.
Well what about Congressional oversight? What has he or any other Democrat done in recent to deal with this problem?
Not a damn thing. In fact they kept that thing going just as long as they could.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Then you are as dangerously naive and ignorant as Obama. This kind of tricky foreign policy is best left to the adults, who understand the nuances and subtleties of dealing with less-than-sincere “allies,” and not manchildren who only think they understand.
ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 10:22 AM
No doubt McCain will be too liberal for my tastes. However, if you think he will even approach Obama, you are the one that is naive. As far as the line McCain used 10 times… that’s in the neighborhood of the number of times Obama really had no answer so he took cover with “I agree with John”. Went right along with his 3rd grade waving of his hand. I have neve claimed McCain would be good…. just much better than Obama.
As far as polls are concerned, perhaps you missed the little diddy where a pollster had a private group discussing the polls (Obama ahead or things inside the margin). He then went on to discuss some “disturbing internals for Senator Obama” and said that they should expect McCain to win in a landslide. The poll that counts comes in November. It won’t even be close.
CC
CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 10:22 AM
I have had to read summaries of the debate to catch up this morning.
Me and my friends agreed to take a shot everytime Barry said “ummmmm, uhhhhh” last night. I didn’t make it through his first statement.
BacaDog on September 27, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Anyone who says Obama won the debate is either spinning or deluding themselves. The split screen I watched showed Obama on the defensive most of the time. We were joking about his right eye twitching for the last half of the debate.
Vashta.Nerada on September 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM
I say what I see. In this blog the only talking points I ever hear are from the McCain camp. I know when I hit a nerve because people say it is ‘talking points’. If it is a talking point, it’s because they got it from me.
ThackerAgency on September 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Republicans need to face it. It’s all over but the voting.
Let’s face reality.
Obama defended the Pelosi drilling bill. McCain did not (or could not) attack him on the specifics of the bill; so Obama came off sounding like he was reasonable on drilling. When, in reality, he’s not of course.
Biden made the rounds on the networks promoting his guy. You know who didn’t? Palin. Nowhere to be seen. That shows the level of confidence McCain has in her. It’s gonna be a debacle in the debate on Friday.
McCain could not defend himself in the beginning on the economy; and let’s face it. That’s all anyone cares about. Obama won that round clearly; Republicans (or maybe it’s just McCain) simply cannot, for whatever reason, explain why a tax increase for anyone is a tax increase for everyone.
Democrats have effectively laid blame for the failure of a bailout package at McCain’s feet. If McCain cannot deliver a package that the vast majority of americans support, get it through congress with his name on it, and get it signed; and the bill is even remotely similar to the paulson/bush/bohica plan, he made a huge mistake even injecting himself there.
It’s depressing imagining what we will be facing come November. And looking forward, with a media that takes everything democrats say at face value, it’s gonna be a disastrous 4 years for free markets and small government.
lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM
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