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Home The Vault Gear About House GOP rejects latest bailout proposal; Update: Pelosi wants deal in principle by tonightposted at 4:09 pm on September 27, 2008 by Allahpundit
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly Too many ornaments on the left’s Christmas tree, with the star on top being Chris Dodd’s preposterous proposal to make sure ACORN gets a cut of the income from each distressed asset sold at a profit even if distressed assets in the aggregate are sold at a loss. They’ve got a little more than 24 hours to pass a bill before the markets in Asia open Monday; Roy Blunt thinks if they don’t have it done by then, there won’t be a deal until late next week. Any problem with that? Read Bill Kristol’s latest at the Standard and have a paper bag handy, as you’ll need it to breathe. Publicly, at least, Fortis denies it’s at risk of going under and claims it has liquidity to spare. Kristol claims two sources who say otherwise and foresees bank runs in the U.S. from the shockwave if it happens — bailout or no bailout. (Roughly half of all Belgian households have accounts with Fortis, according to Reuters.)
We’ve reached the point where even the Journal is sufficiently worried to beg for relief:
No one tried harder than we did to avoid arriving at this pass, but now that we’re here our vote is that this government intervention is justified to defend the system…
The libertarian blogs are full of tut-tutting that the economy has held up surprisingly well, and for a year we’ve been arguing the same thing. But there’s no guarantee this will continue, especially as unemployment climbs and as evidence grows that banking distress is squeezing credit to small and big business alike. Credit spreads over Treasurys are back at agonizing levels, as investors and lenders flee from even plain vanilla risks.
Nobel economics laureate Gary Becker is no alarmist, but this week he wrote on his blog, “I have reluctantly concluded that substantial intervention was justified to avoid a major short-term collapse of the financial system that could push the world economy in a major depression.” Anyone who thinks that capitalism will fare better after a crash should recall that the 1930s didn’t end politically until 1980…
The Paulson idea also seems better than the “insurance” plan for bank assets that House Republicans are now proposing. That idea would still put taxpayers at risk if the assets fall in value, but with little potential upside. Meanwhile, the assets would remain on bank books, making it that much harder for banks to raise private capital and resume normal lending.
The House GOP intervention may still be fortuitous if it focuses on killing the many Democratic ideas that are making the Paulson plan worse.
Indeed, which raises the question of why Dodd et al. are demanding handouts to ACORN when there’s a developing national emergency to deal with. As I’m writing this, Bloomberg is hitting the wires with a report that progress has been made on a deal and that Reid and McConnell are optimistic it’ll be struck tomorrow, with Bob Corker quoted as saying House GOP resistance is “thawing.” Let’s hope. If you follow only one link here, make it this AP history of recent government bailouts in Sweden and Japan explaining why even well-managed recoveries mean multiyear downturns. We’re in for a bad stretch, even if it’s not — knock wood — a catastrophic one.
Update: I’m not much in the mood for blame right now but people are sending this around and it’s as good a post as any to update with. Barney Frank has a star turn, as usual.

Update: Pelosi wants something to look at by tonight. I honestly wonder what the public reaction’s going to be if they stay deadlocked, the market drops 2,000 points on Monday, and people start running on banks. Confidence in government will be even lower than confidence in the markets, which means political destabilization. But what will that look like?
Update: Don’t look now but there’s panic brewing in Britain as well, with a major bank in danger of being nationalized on Monday.
Buzz up!16 votes

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lorien:

No, you are missing the point. The Democrats are the majority, we need a rescue bill, the majority has to be dealt with. There is no other choice.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:25 PM

I rather have no plan than a bad plan written by the people that created the disaster.

Elric66 on September 27, 2008 at 6:25 PM

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Well Goody for you, wasn’t accusing you of being a welfare baby.
You wanted $700 billion handed over to the Treasury Sec. on a silver platter….I read your posts.
We ARE AWARE THERE IS A PROBLEM! WE ARE JUST UNHAPPY THAT DEM PET PROJECTS AND MORE WELFARE FOR UNDESERVING PEOPLE WILL BE PAID FOR ON OUR DIME.

Now, go buy a backbone. I wasn’t lecturing you.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM

If Congress passes this POS, they better be prepared for a Mad Max world. I have a feeling that I am not the only person on the right wing that is about ready to show liberals what a revolution is supposed to look like.

Damiano on September 27, 2008 at 6:15 PM
There are thousands of veterans with skills the democrats should fear, if they push this ACORN/La Raza strip to vote from Americans rider to the bailout bill.

Right_of_Attila on September 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM

I do not want a rescue plan with no accountability for those who made the mess and who made millions on the mess and who demand that they not be punished

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Icalled the switch board and got through to the House Minority office and spoke to the secretary – Mercy4Me on September 27, 2008 at 6:19 PM
AND?????

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM

Mercy4Me on September 27, 2008 at 6:19 PM
Thanks, M4M.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM

The honest people will get punished severely in the comimg economic depression.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 6:24 PM
So your argument is that either way we’re screwed? Now that’s gonna get me on board. And I disagree that a depression is around the corner. That’ll happen when the SS system collapses.

No, you are missing the point. The Democrats are the majority, we need a rescue bill, the majority has to be dealt with. There is no other choice.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Then why aren’t they passing it? They have the majority?

If it’s such an emergency, why are they loading it up with un-necessary spending to their special interest groups?

If it’s such an emergency, why are they tacking on a shale oil ban to it? And pork spending?

If it’s such an emergency, why are they not even attempting to fix the underlying causes; and instead continuing to push for loans that caused the problem in the first place?

Why is an unelected official, the Treasury Secretary, in charge of the money that comes from tax payers?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:30 PM

All a bailout will do is encourage more of the same just like the last amnesty bill did

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:30 PM

There are thousands of veterans with skills the democrats should fear, if they push this ACORN/La Raza strip to vote from Americans rider to the bailout bill. – Right_of_Attila on September 27, 2008 at 6:29 PM
And most of them live in the states that will likely secede. Excellent.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM
I think a lot of us are just upset that people were demanding “no bill” when they didn’t understand the gravity of the situation and how the consequences of economic depression will effect far more people than wall street fat cats. By all means the republicans should fight for the best bill possible.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM

Hornet:

You are aware there is a problem? Really? Because it seems like I am not hearing a lot of solutions out of some folks. I am hearing a lot of pie in the sky stuff about being tough, I am hearing a lot stuff about how this is all doomed, but viable alternatives..that I do not hear.

I don’t want to hand anyone $700 billion on a silver platter or anything else. What I want is not the issue.

But like I said, back in 2006 I knew a lot of real conservatives and Republicans {not socalled Independents} like myself refused to support the GOP. They wanted to send a message. They thought a couple of years of Dem control, might be a good thing.

Well, here we are. If all those people who were just as outraged then as they are now had stood behind the GOP then maybe we would not see people like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid doing the negotiating now.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM

I think a lot of us are just upset that people were demanding “no bill” when they didn’t understand the gravity of the situation and how the consequences of economic depression will effect far more people than wall street fat cats. By all means the republicans should fight for the best bill possible.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Phronesis….If we need the bill….give us the bill….without all the pork. I am not arguing AGAINST the bailout, you have me mixed up with lorien73.

If we need a bailout, give us a bailout..WITHOUT THE PORK!

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:33 PM

lorien:

Maybe they are not passing it because they don’t really care about the results of failure any more than you do.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:33 PM

Then why aren’t they passing it? They have the majority?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Because Nancy may not have the votes if her bluedog Dems desert her for fear of having to justify to their voters a huge bailout of big banks at the taxpayers’ expense. 100 GOP votes gives her cover and enough to pass even if some bluedogs desert her to save their seats.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 6:33 PM

And here we stand on the precipice of having an anti “redlining” president in charge of the mess.

We better be prepared for show trials and political expropriations if this all fails and Obama gains power

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:34 PM

Well, here we are. If all those people who were just as outraged then as they are now had stood behind the GOP then maybe we would not see people like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid doing the negotiating now.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Hear hear…you misunderstand me, Terrye. Again, I want a bill, but nothing for pet projects. I understand there is a problem. You have me mixed up with lorien73, I think.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:34 PM

Hornet, I want a bill like that too, but then I don’t always get what I want. I learned that decades ago. In the end it comes down to the best deal you can get.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM

I have been reading the thread all afternoon I think the following.

Govgirl on September 27, 2008 at 6:36 PM

I agree…dang it, we are on the same page…I am just sick and tired of living under a Acorn/LaRaza victimization world.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:36 PM

Wethal:

I don’t think it is just the blue dogs. I am wondering how much pressure she is getting from the left. They probably want all the things the GOP does not want.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM

Why should we have to pay for pork and irresponsible CEOs who will get a “bonus” for so diligently lobbying?

Maybe this will save a lot of grief, but maybe it will just cause more and reward malfeasance. I have no control over any of this, but I can still say it stinks!

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM

I say this with bile in my throat. If Obama is elected by the MSM and other idiots of America, we better get used to this “crisis” thing.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:38 PM

Yep, Hornet, the next bankrupt system will be healthcare

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Hornet:

I know.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:39 PM

cinurnberg:

Or social security.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:40 PM

I say this with bile in my throat. If Obama is elected by the MSM and other idiots of America, we better get used to this “crisis” thing. – HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Unless you enjoy fascism, I suggest you not allow yourself to get used to anything.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 6:40 PM

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:38 PM
At least you see where it’s going.

Obama already said that the healthcare industry is in the same “crisis” as the banking industry.

This is only a beginning. This bill passes and it becomes a template for more in the future. A foot in the door is all that is required.

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:41 PM

I still have trouble thinking I should pay one dime while the CEOs keep hundreds of millions for having made this. Raines, Fuld, etc deserve to be stripped of their assets and sent to jail

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:41 PM

I’m beginning to think that the actual crisis driving this thing is not the impending collapse of banks, but rather the impending collapse of community organizers.
I wish I was in Dixie. RPaul first pres? GOD bless the LS!

Benjamin9 on September 27, 2008 at 6:42 PM

Maybe this will save a lot of grief, but maybe it will just cause more and reward malfeasance. I have no control over any of this, but I can still say it stinks!

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM
I’ll take this one. That is what house repubs are trying to do, don’t just GIVE the money to the one’s who caused this…including Acorn and their no money down loans.

If we don’t do something, credit will freeze. No one will get money. Businesses will not be able to meet payroll, no money for houses, cars, anything.

It will cripple main street and you.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:42 PM

cinumberg:

I understand what you are saying, but if there really is widespread economic turmoil and distress, it will only strengthen the Democrats. It always does.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:42 PM

While we have ACORN in our sites, don’t forget La Raza’s role in this sh#t sandwich……………

Seven Percent Solution on September 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Rest assured Gringo that Juan and poco Lindsey will make sure that we get at least our share of the mucho dinero from you suckas.

VinyFoxy on September 27, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Of that, I have no doubt mi amigo……… then the United States will join your fu#$ed up country (Mexico) and our dollar will be less than a peso, only good to wipe your as# with.

Opps…….. no more free health care, no more free housing, no more free social programs, no more money to send back to la casa.

Wake up and smell the cafe, ACORN and La Raza, along with the Democrats, the MSM, and Government Political Elite Bureaucratic class caused this whole mess for the votes of your like, and illegal aliens.

Now it has the light of day shining on it, and you are running like the la cucarachas that you are.

Stay classy Vinny……………… and not even a gracias, it was always mas.

Seven Percent Solution on September 27, 2008 at 6:43 PM

I still have trouble thinking I should pay one dime while the CEOs keep hundreds of millions for having made this. Raines, Fuld, etc deserve to be stripped of their assets and sent to jail

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:41 PM
You will pay one way or another. We all we pay in a depression.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 6:43 PM

Oops . . . Stupid tab button. Now as I was saying

1. I would love for the Republicans to get exactly what they want – the insurance, tax cuts etc, but the Dems will never do it
2. The Dems have made it obvious they will not pass this without the House GOP – this is good, gives us leverage
3. Propose a compromise plan which includes the following
~ Significantly less “bailout” money for immediate use
~ The insurance style plan for the rest of the companies
~ Both tax cuts
~ And all of the regulatory changes proposed by Cantor
4. Once they propose this they should make it clear – any bill other then that one will be passed by Dems alone. This way they have evidence that they attempted a compromise and it was the Dems that would not budge – now who is the bad guy.
5. Do I actually think they are bright enough to do this – um . . .
6. Will the MSM spin it anyway – yes
7. Do I like the direct money in the bailout, no but we are not going to get a bill without at least some so I say go on the offense and make the Dems play D for a while

Govgirl on September 27, 2008 at 6:43 PM

So, do you think Mexico will still get their Merida money? They were whining and begging for it a couple of weeks ago!
Stop all aid to those crippling us or who hate us. Keep money at home for a month. Use THAT money for this debacle…no?

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:45 PM

lorien:

Hoover did not do anything when the Great Depression began. It did not stop the New Deal, it helped create it.

We have had bailouts before, not this large, but the concept is not alien to our system.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:45 PM

The things are going from bad to worse. Last night the not very convincing McCain on economy and the financial crisis, now the GOP not very able to stand to the dems demands for a full of earmarks bill. How on Earth they accepted Charlie Rangel at the negotiations table? And where is McCain threataning that the GOP is not going to vote anything if the bill is going to look like a Christmas tree? Let democrats pass it if they want to please their clients. MCCain should say its my way or the highway to the democrats.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM

Phronesis: we may just have one anyway. I am for a sensible plan that does not let the bad guys off the hook. I know it is a fantasy, but where is the investigative reporting and the cries for the likes of Dodd, Obama, Franks, etc to step down? Instead the MSM lets them play the heroes.

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM

I know how to fix the healthcare problem….STOP PAYING FOR ILLEGAL ALIEN HEALTHCARE.

I know where we can get money for his debacle….STOP PAYING FOR ILLEGAL ALIEN HEALTHCARE THRU MEDICAID!

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM

I wonder what happened to the Cantor/Paulson bill. Is that what they are working on now?

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM

Wethal:

I don’t think it is just the blue dogs. I am wondering how much pressure she is getting from the left. They probably want all the things the GOP does not want.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Probably. And Nancy might be willing to jettison some Dem proposals (maybe not ACORN money) to get a deal. The lefties want everything they want, and nothing included for the GOP.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM

Hornet Sting: You will have to kill EMTALA to do that

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:48 PM

I know it is a fantasy, but where is the investigative reporting and the cries for the likes of Dodd, Obama, Franks, etc to step down? Instead the MSM lets them play the heroes.
Because its Bush’s fault. You know the line. And because they want Obama to win.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:48 PM

You are aware there is a problem? Really? Because it seems like I am not hearing a lot of solutions out of some folks. I am hearing a lot of pie in the sky stuff about being tough, I am hearing a lot stuff about how this is all doomed, but viable alternatives..that I do not hear.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Do you ever read anything? Or do you just stick around here all day? Go to Boehner’s website, and read what it is what you want to pass — to save us from ourselves.

Is this what you want to vote for? Is this how you want to live? Do you think it won’t affect you?

Nichevo on September 27, 2008 at 6:48 PM

lorien:

No, you are missing the point. The Democrats are the majority, we need a rescue bill, the majority has to be dealt with. There is no other choice.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:25 PM
Terrye, with all due respect, I think you are the one missing the point. The Democrats can pass this. Let them. Why do you need a single Republican vote?

This is like the “you made me hit you” defense of a wife beater. Sheesh. Better yet, the “he didn’t mean it” excuse of the wife.

If I’m gonna die anyway, I’ll do it on my feet, thanks.

capitalist piglet on September 27, 2008 at 6:48 PM

I want Dodd and Barney Frank in the same jail cell. Lights out Chris!

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:48 PM

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Yep, he needs to show some leadership. He’s not. That’s why he’s gonna lose.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Why fix, when your goal is for it to be broken, so you can take control of it when desired?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:49 PM

clemycall:

The Democrats are the majority, the GOP can keep Rangel out anymore than the Democrats could have kept out Tom Delay when they were the majority. I have heard McCain is trying to get a deal.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:49 PM

Govgirl on September 27, 2008 at 6:43 PM

Sounds like a plan. Hopefully they will let the dems take the fall for passing their own crap.

darwin on September 27, 2008 at 6:50 PM

lorien:

I think McCain is showing leadership. If it were not for him Blunt and the other GOP would not even be in the talks. Or so I heard.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:51 PM

I say this with bile in my throat. If Obama is elected by the MSM and other idiots of America, we better get used to this “crisis” thing.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:38 PM
…very true…classic fascist tactic…the perpetual state of emergency…”wars” on everything…drugs, terrorism, childhood obesity, the heartbreak of psorriasis….

You have to be in a state of war to suspend habeas corpus…and people will tolerate the suspension of civil liberties when we’re at war.

…now…if the war is always just over the horizon, all the better for our totalitarian friends. It saves the cost of an actual war (money, not lives), so’s you have all the benefits of war but none of the pesky drawbacks.

That doesn’t mean that the solutions presented to deal with these crises coming in endless string have to be effective. They only need to be sold as being effective. You want to stuff some pork or political advantage under the floorboards? Have at it! The prolls will never catch on.

Change, but not specific and rational change.

Solution to the financial business, but not an effective solution to the business.

The Left is always presenting “a” solution…never “the” solution….

Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 6:51 PM

This is only a beginning. This bill passes and it becomes a template for more in the future. A foot in the door is all that is required.

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:41 PM
And what a big foot it is!

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 6:52 PM

McCain needs to stand up to porking the taxpayer today! If he can make a valiant effort he can wil in November even if the dems steamroller the acorn stuff

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:52 PM

I’ll support the 700 billion dollar bailout if every single member of congress resigns and new elections to fill every seat is done in november.

Deal?

They caused the problem; they are telling us its our fault and need to pay to fix it?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:52 PM

Why fix, when your goal is for it to be broken, so you can take control of it when desired?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:49 PM
The gov’t would be flush with money. But, I understand the whole democrat…the fear that someone, somewhere may be able to think and take care of themselves. The Dems thrive on defeat and misery.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:52 PM

lorien:

Why fix it? If you can’t answer that yourself there is no point in explaining it to.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:53 PM

I want Dodd and Barney Frank in the same jail cell. Lights out Chris!

HornetSting
…Frank should do well in jail….

…and, yes, for the “homophobic” reason you imagine that I’m saying that he’ll do well….

…popular!

Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Terrye lorien is merely saying the dems don’t want things “fixed” unless they get total control

clnurnberg on September 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM

The Left is always presenting “a” solution…never “the” solution…. – Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 6:51 PM
The are practicing in order to one day implement their final solution.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM

The Democrats are the majority, the GOP can keep Rangel out anymore than the Democrats could have kept out Tom Delay when they were the majority. I have heard McCain is trying to get a deal.
I know that the democrats are the majority in the Congress.But it makes me crazy when I see that in the moment McCain should show some real leadership and beat the dems and the Bush people over their heads he’s trying to strike a deal that is going to be bad for the country, bad for GOP and bad for him. How on Earth is he going to say I am against pork and earmarks when he is going to pass a bill full of this kind of things? Obama is going to have him for breakfast.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM

Let democrats pass it if they want to please their clients. MCCain should say its my way or the highway to the democrats.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Is McCain the President? How come the only one willing to call out the worthless George W Bush is Newt Gingrich?

Gingrich: Bush doesn’t understand fiscal crisis, and treasury secretary should resign
Saturday, September 27, 2008, 02:59 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Former U.S. House speaker Newt Gingrich, whose criticism helped spark a GOP revolt against the bail-out of Wall Street proposed by the Bush Administration, predicted Saturday that House Republicans would reluctantly support legislation that permits the federal government to purchase and isolate the tainted mortgages at the root of the current credit crisis.

But Gingrich had harsh words for President Bush, whom he said doesn’t understand the situation, and for Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, whom the former speaker said — for the first time — should resign.

The former Georgia congressman also demanded that the final version of be bill be posted on the Internet for 24 hours before Congress votes on the package.

“That will let you flush out the kind of hidden, secret deals that crop up, that the press finds two weeks after something’s been voted on,” he said.
funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 6:55 PM

Why fix it? If you can’t answer that yourself there is no point in explaining it to.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:53 PM
The question was rhetorical – as in “why would government fix something, when the design is to break it so it can be consumed and controlled later”

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:55 PM

McCain needs to stand up to porking the taxpayer today! If he can make a valiant effort he can wil in November even if the dems steamroller the acorn stuff
Yes. Amen to this. But I am afraid the cat is out of the bag and he is going to cave in. Bipartisanship. You know.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM

…Frank should do well in jail….…and, yes, for the “homophobic” reason you imagine that I’m saying that he’ll do well…. …popular! – Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM
If you really want to punish Barny Frank, send him to a women’s prison.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM

And clelmycali, you forgot the thing about the “concerned christian conservative” and all.

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM

and, yes, for the “homophobic” reason you imagine that I’m saying that he’ll do well….

Puritan1648 on September 27, 2008 at 6:54 PM

I don’t have a problem with homosexuals…I have MANY friends that are in long-term relationships….

I just think it would be funny. Could you imagine having to listen to Barney for the rest of your life…YIKES!
HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM

But I am afraid the cat is out of the bag and he is going to cave in. Bipartisanship. You know. – clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM
If he does, he loses th election. Just that simple.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM

capitalist piglet:

No, I get your point. You are saying that if Nancy had the votes she would pass it right now, so let’s play hardball and get the bill we want.

I am saying that this is too important to play around like this. I am also saying that if the plan actually works, the Republicans will not be able to claim any part in any good it might do.

It is a gamble either way and no I don’t want a lot of this stuff in there either.

But the Democrats might very well have some people who are also ready to balk over not getting something they think they have to have… and that means Nancy might not have the votes after all.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM

Yes. Amen to this. But I am afraid the cat is out of the bag and he is going to cave in. Bipartisanship. You know.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 6:56 PM
And your rel question is: Why isn’t McCain doing this?

Because he has no clue what to do. He has no moral or economic principles to fall back on in situations like this. Bush, to his credit, at least was willing to abandon his. Not that that’s a good thing; but it’s something.

There are solutions out there, that use the free market to fix this problem. That cost less money to the taxpayer. Expose less risk to the taxpayer. Rely on government less. And do not result in a foot in the door for big government socialists.

Why isn’t he out there advocating it?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 6:55 PM
I doubt Newt Gingrich understands the situation. I’d say W is probably not an economic genius, but his advisors and chairman Bernanke came up with a plan (not the current democratic pork laden plan) that appears to be more effective than Gingrich’s proposal.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 6:59 PM

I hope McCain remember what his “friends” across the aisle have been saying about him when he makes his “deal”.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 6:59 PM

ManlyRush:

I am not so sure about that. People expect government to do something. They might not like the idea of a bailout, but if banks start to fold in Europe and if the stock market takes a big dive, then they can be even more upset that nothing was done.

Besides, in all probability Obama will vote for it and it does not seem to be hurting him.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM

It’d be nice to see the Republicans mount a counter attack and start laying the blame for the entire economic downturn at Nancy Pelosi’s feet. Because you know the libs are trying to spin this as a Republican problem.

It’d also be nice to see the Justice Department work to break up ACORN.

Iblis on September 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM

There are solutions out there, that use the free market to fix this problem. That cost less money to the taxpayer. Expose less risk to the taxpayer. Rely on government less. And do not result in a foot in the door for big government socialists.

Why isn’t he out there advocating it?

lorien1973 on September 27, 2008 at 6:58 PM
I disagree with that. Here’s why:
The people advocating doing nothing assume that the normal economic forces that push the economy into equilibrium are still in effect. But in this environment that is not the case. Instead market forces are operating to push the economy into a deflationary downard spiral. Here’s why: The toxic debt that started this mess is going down because home prices are going down. This had a contagion effect which spread throughout the credit market and is limiting the availability of credit. This can stop when home prices stop going down. But home prices are themselves a function of available credit. People without access to credit can’t buy houses and thereby contribute to price appreciation of homes. So home prices can’t stop going down as long as credit conditions are deteriorating. And yet home prices remain the primary cause of deteriortaing credit, so credit can’t stop evaporating unless home prices stop going down. This is why market forces absent intervention push the economy into a downward spiral rather than into equilibrium. This is why intervention is neccessary.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 7:01 PM

No, I get your point. You are saying that if Nancy had the votes she would pass it right now, so let’s play hardball and get the bill we want.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 6:57 PM
The democrats have the votes to pass any bill they want. They want political cover for passing a monstrousity onto the American people. They don’t have the guts to pass it and take responsibility so they want the Repubs to sign on.

The Repubs should not vote for any bill they don’t want. If the dems want this crap, let them own it.

darwin on September 27, 2008 at 7:02 PM

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Whether you agree with bigmouth Newt or not, what the hell good does it do to bash Bush right now? He’s not going to be around to face the consequences; I’m not sure he’s even with it right now.

All bashing Bush does is give the left more ammo. So shut up, Newt.

Nichevo on September 27, 2008 at 7:02 PM

I hope McCain remember what his “friends” across the aisle have been saying about him when he makes his “deal”.
McCain had his opportunity to go nuclear about this yestarday evening. He didn’t do it. Now he is trying to do something but he lost the bluff to the dems. Now he is trapped.

Besides, in all probability Obama will vote for it and it does not seem to be hurting him.
Obama is not going to get hurt because he made his populist stance last night. And people are scared and blame Bush.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:03 PM

Chuck Schumer flipped his lid, screaming at his fellow democrats. Maybe the Acorn thing is going to get pulled….we can dream anyway.

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 7:04 PM

funky chicken:

Bush is not worthless, as far back as 2003 he was trying to get more oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He got about as far with that as he did social security and for the same reason, no one wanted to hear it. Things were going fine.

As for Newt, he was in Washington, in Congress when a lot of this stuff first got started, Bush wasn’t. Gingrich can flap his gums all he wants, but if he had been on the ball when he was Speaker of the House maybe he could kept some of these programs from being made law in the first place.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 7:05 PM

Fox is talking about how babyish the Dems are being. They say that the Dems showed up with 9 people when they were suppose to bring only two. Well both sides can play that game I say the Republicans should come back from dinner and bring the army . . . AND all of the EMAIL they have been getting. So that the media can SEE what we think about this.

Govgirl on September 27, 2008 at 7:06 PM

Hornet:

I think Shumer is scared. A strange thought.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 7:06 PM

Obama is not going to get hurt because he made his populist stance last night. And people are scared and blame Bush.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:03 PM
Correction:

He made his SOCIALIST stance last night and the MSM and all his voters loved it! Free money on the backs of tax paying Americans!

HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 7:06 PM

The democrats have the votes to pass any bill they want. They want political cover for passing a monstrousity onto the American people. They don’t have the guts to pass it and take responsibility so they want the Repubs to sign on.
That is exactly what Dick Morris was saying and that McCain should have taken advantage of this. But he blew it badly last night so now the dems have more courage. End of story.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:07 PM

The Repubs should not vote for any bill they don’t want. If the dems want this crap, let them own it.

darwin on September 27, 2008 at 7:02 PM
correct

yeah, guys, it just makes such total sense to bash John McCain over this whole thing. really, it will be so much better to elect Obama.

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 7:08 PM

suspend habeas corpus
Dude, long before that occurs, the red states secede, the military comes along, and the New USA adopts the existing constitution/statutes while shedding various provisions like the tax code, Roe v Wade, etc.

After that, NUSA moves into the red states much like Russia advanced on Georgia, thereby achieving a complete restoration of the USA.

kuhio on September 27, 2008 at 7:08 PM

Krauthammer just said on Fox that ‘the House Republicans will have to go along’ with the bill. I understand what he was trying to say, but the House Republicans do not have to vote for a bad bill.

If it is not a solution to the problem, don’t vote for the thing. Let the democrats own the problem, especially since they won’t permit a reasonable solution.

The democrats know they are losing this issue, that’s why the negotiations are so loud and so public.

I just hope we get a chance to see the [expletive] thing before they vote on it.

rockhauler on September 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM

But he blew it badly last night so now the dems have more courage. End of story.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:07 PM
BS

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM

Congressman Pete Hoekstra just tweeted this:

petehoekstra House goes under martial law. Any bill can be considered in 1 hour by Rules Cmt and brought to House immediately. Is this how we’ll do rescue? 2 minutes ago from TwitterBerry
aero on September 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM

The democrats have the votes to pass any bill they want. They want political cover for passing a monstrousity onto the American people.

darwin on September 27, 2008 at 7:02 PM
Technically true. But the Dems won in 2006 in part by running conservative Dems in some districts. These seats might be at risk if these Dems were pounded by their GOP opponents for supporting a big bailout for big money.

Nancy has to keep them from defecting but she can only push so much before she’ll be reminded that getting re-elected is the most important thing for her House members. She isn’t in much danger of losing the House, but she doesn’t want her majority to shrink too much.

She’s in a fix tighter than her face after a Botox injection.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 7:10 PM

That is exactly what Dick Morris was saying and that McCain should have taken advantage of this. But he blew it badly last night so now the dems have more courage. End of story.

clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:07 PM

It is unfortunate that McCain still sees these Democrat Jackyls as his friends. He should go for the jugular. But, you’re right, he won’t. I don’t want to believe this, but he is probably all over Blunt and Boehner to make a deal, with the pork and ACORN!

BTW, called my congressman, Voice mailbox was FULL. Keep calling and tell them NO ACORN!
HornetSting on September 27, 2008 at 7:10 PM

darwin:

I am not so sure the Democrats do have the votes.

They have the majority, and that gives the advantage, but that does not mean they have the votes unless they can get everyone to go along.

Maybe one bunch of people is saying We will not do this unless such and such is in it..and another people are saying are saying we will not do it, if such and such is in it.

So the Republicans can not overwhelm them with numbers, but at the same time if they are facing trouble in their own ranks this might be getting really dicey.

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 7:11 PM

Krauthammer just said on Fox that ‘the House Republicans will have to go along’ with the bill. – rockhauler on September 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Ever since Palin was nominated, Ironside has been much less dependable as a source of conservative punditry.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 7:11 PM

He made his SOCIALIST stance last night and the MSM and all his voters loved it! Free money on the backs of tax paying Americans!

True and where was McCain to answer to this? Nowhere. He was talking about bipartisanship. Lame. Sad. Lost opportunity.
I say the Republicans should come back from dinner and bring the army . . . AND all of the EMAIL they have been getting. So that the media can SEE what we think about this.

Too late. I’m afraid they are too scared to do anything and they are pressed to have a deal. They should not have accepted to sit on the negotiations table being overpowered. What are they thinking. If the dems can’t respect the negotiations terms of agreement how are they going to respect the negotiations terms? Its a question of trust.
clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:11 PM

Krauthammer just said on Fox that ‘the House Republicans will have to go along’ with the bill. I understand what he was trying to say, but the House Republicans do not have to vote for a bad bill.

If it is not a solution to the problem, don’t vote for the thing. Let the democrats own the problem, especially since they won’t permit a reasonable solution.

The democrats know they are losing this issue, that’s why the negotiations are so loud and so public.

I just hope we get a chance to see the [expletive] thing before they vote on it.

rockhauler on September 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Did Krauthammer mean the porked-up bailout bill, or just a bailout bill?

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 7:11 PM

You know, with all that is going on today, we can forget our favorite girl……………………….. Jamie Gorelick.

……….. makes you want to hug your children, tell them you love them, and wonder what could possibly happen next. And these people are still walking around, free, with Millions of our money in their pocket.

……………………. why?

Seven Percent Solution on September 27, 2008 at 7:11 PM

That is exactly what Dick Morris was saying…
clemycali on September 27, 2008 at 7:07 PM
Well, if Dick Morris said it, then it’s all true.*

*Deep, intense sarcasm

Nichevo on September 27, 2008 at 7:12 PM

I just hope we get a chance to see the [expletive] thing before they vote on it. – rockhauler on September 27, 2008 at 7:09 PM
We won’t.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 7:12 PM

So if the bill gets passed and it works, what does that mean for Republicans if they made a point of not voting for it?

Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 7:12 PM

The dirty secret is it wont’ work. It’ll never be enough bail out money. 3 years from now (or less) they’ll want more.

SouthernGent on September 27, 2008 at 7:15 PM

WTH? How’d I do that long block quote!?!?!?

SouthernGent on September 27, 2008 at 7:16 PM