House GOP rejects latest bailout proposal; Update: Pelosi wants deal in principle by tonight

posted at 4:09 pm on September 27, 2008 by Allahpundit

Too many ornaments on the left’s Christmas tree, with the star on top being Chris Dodd’s preposterous proposal to make sure ACORN gets a cut of the income from each distressed asset sold at a profit even if distressed assets in the aggregate are sold at a loss. They’ve got a little more than 24 hours to pass a bill before the markets in Asia open Monday; Roy Blunt thinks if they don’t have it done by then, there won’t be a deal until late next week. Any problem with that? Read Bill Kristol’s latest at the Standard and have a paper bag handy, as you’ll need it to breathe. Publicly, at least, Fortis denies it’s at risk of going under and claims it has liquidity to spare. Kristol claims two sources who say otherwise and foresees bank runs in the U.S. from the shockwave if it happens — bailout or no bailout. (Roughly half of all Belgian households have accounts with Fortis, according to Reuters.)

We’ve reached the point where even the Journal is sufficiently worried to beg for relief:

No one tried harder than we did to avoid arriving at this pass, but now that we’re here our vote is that this government intervention is justified to defend the system…

The libertarian blogs are full of tut-tutting that the economy has held up surprisingly well, and for a year we’ve been arguing the same thing. But there’s no guarantee this will continue, especially as unemployment climbs and as evidence grows that banking distress is squeezing credit to small and big business alike. Credit spreads over Treasurys are back at agonizing levels, as investors and lenders flee from even plain vanilla risks.

Nobel economics laureate Gary Becker is no alarmist, but this week he wrote on his blog, “I have reluctantly concluded that substantial intervention was justified to avoid a major short-term collapse of the financial system that could push the world economy in a major depression.” Anyone who thinks that capitalism will fare better after a crash should recall that the 1930s didn’t end politically until 1980…

The Paulson idea also seems better than the “insurance” plan for bank assets that House Republicans are now proposing. That idea would still put taxpayers at risk if the assets fall in value, but with little potential upside. Meanwhile, the assets would remain on bank books, making it that much harder for banks to raise private capital and resume normal lending.

The House GOP intervention may still be fortuitous if it focuses on killing the many Democratic ideas that are making the Paulson plan worse.

Indeed, which raises the question of why Dodd et al. are demanding handouts to ACORN when there’s a developing national emergency to deal with. As I’m writing this, Bloomberg is hitting the wires with a report that progress has been made on a deal and that Reid and McConnell are optimistic it’ll be struck tomorrow, with Bob Corker quoted as saying House GOP resistance is “thawing.” Let’s hope. If you follow only one link here, make it this AP history of recent government bailouts in Sweden and Japan explaining why even well-managed recoveries mean multiyear downturns. We’re in for a bad stretch, even if it’s not — knock wood — a catastrophic one.

Update: I’m not much in the mood for blame right now but people are sending this around and it’s as good a post as any to update with. Barney Frank has a star turn, as usual.

Update: Pelosi wants something to look at by tonight. I honestly wonder what the public reaction’s going to be if they stay deadlocked, the market drops 2,000 points on Monday, and people start running on banks. Confidence in government will be even lower than confidence in the markets, which means political destabilization. But what will that look like?

Update: Don’t look now but there’s panic brewing in Britain as well, with a major bank in danger of being nationalized on Monday.


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McCain better have something up his sleeve in regard to this bailout- he’s made more than a couple of bad decisions lately and hanging out in his office today instead of going in to be part of this has me puzzled….

anniekc on September 27, 2008 at 8:16 PM

The negotiations were supposed to be between the House GOP leaders and two Dems on House concerns. McCain wanted the House views to get consideration, but let the House reps handle this themselves. Otherwise, it would look like they couldn’t negotiate on their own. Of course, it was the two Dems who couldn’t, and hauled (with no notice) in some more Dem politicians, including senators, to today’s meeting. I hope some GOP reinforcement have arrived.

The GOP’s problem is that their sleepwalking-through-the- last-months-president has taken one position in favor of this, but their nominee is anti-pork. The GOP can’t be seen at this point to have a family feud. It would be disastrous for the nominee to go one way and the downticket GOP another.

There would be RINOs (or purple state GOPs) who would vote for the Dem bill, and GOP conservatives who would vote against a big money pork-laden bailout, but that would be a small number of votes.

Any bill needs big GOP support in both Houses for Dem cover.

So the GOP chooses among: 1) supporting Bush, and voting for a big bailout, and maybe averting a meltdown (for now), or 2) going with a modified, no-pork version that McCain might support to keep unity on the ticket.

And scenario 3) If the bill doesn’t go through at all, and there is an economic meltdown, Nancy will be screeching about how unpatriotic the GOP was, and Obama wins in a landslide that takes the Senate to 60+ Dems.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:32 PM

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:32 PM

The Baconator version will be passed.

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 8:34 PM

Paulson Update [Rich Lowry]

Just talked to a friend who is plugged-in to all this who wants a deal and has tended to think all along that there will be a deal. Now he’s not so sure. He thinks the wheels are coming off. House Republicans want their insurance as a mandatory thing rather than an option, while the House Democratic caucus is imploding and pulling the deal far to the left. It’s getting ugly.

09/27 08:27 PM

Dems Also Packing the Meetings [Rich Lowry]

From Roll Call:

House and Senate GOP aides warned Saturday that Democrats threatened to blow up talks on a financial market rescue plan by sending in too many negotiators, particularly those with a political bent.

Although Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson asked each leader of the House and Senate to send only one envoy to the negotiating table, both House and Senate Democrats appear to be disregarding that.

At the beginning of what was billed as a crucial negotiating session Saturday afternoon, Democrats sent in five Senators and three House Members, compared with one representative each from the House and Senate Republicans. Paulson and a few other Treasury officials were also present.

09/27 08:34 PM

From NRO Corner.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:36 PM

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:36 PM

The House GOP had better not choose mandatory insurance as the hill to die on.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 8:39 PM

How on God’s green earth can leftists like frank, dodd, h. clinton stand up in front of the American public and lie and so few people call them on their lies.

I was disappointed when bill O. said no one told him that the banks were making bad loans. Maybe bill and the factor are not on McCains daily mailing list. As much as i respect fox news for thier reporting they could have and should have reported the risky policies of the left years ago.

As far back as 2001 republicans and the fedaral reserve chairman have been warning the congress about freddie mac and fannie mae. As far as i know the only media outlet that put anything out was the leftist rag nyt. And the only reason the new york times talked about it was because they were trying to make the republicans look bad for denying low income folks “affordable housing”.

This mess started with the worst president in the history of the u.s. jimmy carter. Then it got worse during the clinton presidentcy when the cra was not only expanded but mandated by a left leaning, market intefering, something for nothing congress.

So who is to blame?
The democratic party about 90% for passing these forced bad loans in the first place. And the republicans about 10% for not screaming loud enough for the american people to be warned.

TomLawler on September 27, 2008 at 8:41 PM

The House GOP had better not choose mandatory insurance as the hill to die on.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 8:39 PM

Agreed. “No ACORN” is the one.

Interesting that the Dems are being pulled to the left. Drudge has a new report up on how Nancy wants to tax Wall Street if the sale of the distressed assets doesn’t pay off.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:42 PM

The democratic party about 90% for passing these forced bad loans in the first place. And the republicans about 10% for not screaming loud enough for the american people to be warned.

TomLawler on September 27, 2008 at 8:41 PM

The Dems kept playing it as “affordable housing” and claiming the GOP and banks raaacciiissst for not wanting to give mortgages to minority people with no means of paying them back and lousy credit histories.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:44 PM

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 8:32 PM

Excellent comment.

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 8:49 PM

I’ve been calling my senators/reps the last few hours telling them what I want from that damn bank rescue bill. They’re not taking calls, but some of them allow messages. They all post FAX numbers. I’m in a blue state so even though I’ve called my own useless reps, I’m calling other states reps to thank them for standing up for us.

I know they’re fighting to get the amendment out, but I don’t know how well they’re doing. But they know they’ve got my support, for what it’s worth.

Anyway, I thought some of you might have use for some of the links I’ve dug up.

Here’s the Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

And here’s the House of Representatives:
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
I’m pretty worried about the situation we’re in, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

CSK on September 27, 2008 at 8:50 PM

Heck the only thing i regret about my origanal post is the fact that i did not watch the video before i posted. Hell i went into the fight with a pocket knife when i had a shotgun hanging on my back window.

TomLawler on September 27, 2008 at 8:57 PM

phronesis:

Another housing bubble won’t occur it 2-3 years.

It wont require a “new” bubble. The 700 billion will be all but wasted, the headache of this bubble will carry over, get bigger and pop harder.

investors have learned the hard way that housing isn’t a safe asset class.

No, no lessons will have been learned; for the primary teaching rod of the market, living and dying by ones own decisions, will have been almost eliminated practically speaking, and completely eliminated in principle. Thus, there is nothing left to teach the very lesson you think investors have learned.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Anybody who wasn’t aware this was coming at some point wasn’t paying attention. The F/M’s were both in the news a few years ago for misstating profits. We all heard years ago about redlining, and in the late ’90′s about Congress bumping up the money available for low-income loans.
The only question was when this would all come to the fore.
Of course, during the hot real estate market, everyone was betting that we would skate. (Me too.)
The minute this story came out “redlining” popped into my head. As soon as I did my due diligence, I realized that was right on the money.
The next issues are going to be Medicare and Social Security. And we know about them now, and we’ve known about them all along.

CSK on September 27, 2008 at 9:02 PM

No, no lessons will have been learned; for the primary teaching rod of the market, living and dying by ones own decisions, will have been almost eliminated practically speaking, and completely eliminated in principle. Thus, there is nothing left to teach the very lesson you think investors have learned.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 8:59 PM

There has been an extreme of amount of pain in anything related to MBS already felt and a huge amount of collateral damage exacted upon everyone in the financial services sector, even if they had nothing to do with the mortgage fiasco.

And yes, these perfect storm moments invariably follow some bubble. So it will require another bubble.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:03 PM

House and Senate negotiators were pushing closer to a bailout deal with Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Saturday night – with new interest in finding a way for Wall Street to pay part of the cost.

One option that has gained interest: a plan that would require Treasury to impose a fee on financial companies’ transactions in the future to help the government recover any losses from the purchase and sale of mortgage-related assets.

Paulson has been open to the idea, which could prove attractive to both deficit-conscious Blue Dog Democrats and conservative Republicans who have argued that Wall Street – rather than taxpayers – should shoulder a big part of the cost.

Racing to reach a deal before the markets open Monday, lawmakers met into the night in the Capitol office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) Paulson set up a sort of command center in the office of Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), with lawmakers and staffers criss-crossing Statuary Hall as they shuttled back and forth.

In a sign that the negotiations were growing serious, an aide to Pelosi collected BlackBerrys from the staffers meeting in her office so that no details would leak out. Just after 8 p.m., an order of pizzas arrived at Paulson’s HQ in Boehner’s office. Democratic staffers ordered in burgers and fries from Five Guys.

House Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), the lead negotiator for recalcitrant House Republicans, said lawmakers were making progress and would work “through the night” if necessary.

Just before 7 p.m., reporters waiting outside Pelosi’s office asked Senate Minority Leader McConnell (R-Ky.) if he thought there would be an announcement of any kind Saturday night.

“I’m optimistic that they’re going to move forward,” he said. “You know Sen. Reid and I would like the Senate to be voting on this Monday — that’s our goal.”

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said negotiators were “making a lot of headway,” and that it was “not entirely beyond the realm of possibility” that they would have a deal Saturday night.

Asked if the negotiations were getting harder, Baucus said: “No, it’s gotten better.”

“It’s coming – a lot of moving pieces,” said Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee and the chief negotiator for House Democrats.

While the meeting in Pelosi’s office was supposed to include just Paulson and the principal negotiators – Blunt, Frank and Sens. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) and Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) — a substantial number Senate Democrats were participating as well.

Republicans complained that the presence of the additional Democrats was making the process more difficult; by setting up shop in Boehner’s office, Paulson was able to get some breathing room after spending hours in close quarters, where at times he was hectored by some of the Senate Democrats.

Latest from Politico. Looks like the GOP got reinforcements. Paulson operating out of Boehner’s office. Hmmm.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM

Pelosi wants deal in principle by tonight

How does she, or the rest of these asshats, walk the streets without getting throttled?

BallisticBob on September 27, 2008 at 9:14 PM

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM

High marks for staying on top of this, Wethal. Thanks!

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 9:18 PM

There has been an extreme of amount of pain in anything related to MBS already felt and a huge amount of collateral damage exacted upon everyone in the financial services sector, even if they had nothing to do with the mortgage fiasco.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:03 PM

Yes, and that pain will be relieved, not by a market correction, not by a reorganization, not by a better financial strategy, not by an overall change of behavior, but by a governing body taking money from one sector of the population and “giving” it to another. In other words the “pain” you site is the natural outcome of bad decisions, and exists because this bailout has not yet been enacted. This pain is essential for freedom, not just in financial markets, but for society as a whole. If this plan is enacted, as written by the Treasury, you will not see this “pain” again; not because the actions that caused it changed, but because the threat of consequences will have been mostly removed. It is mind boggling that on any other day, many on this site will bemoan the irresponsibility and waste by our Congress in regards to the three trillion budget already in their hands, YET find within themselves a reservoir of trust in these same officials when they are asking for a third of the overall budget immediately.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:24 PM

No, no lessons will have been learned; for the primary teaching rod of the market, living and dying by ones own decisions, will have been almost eliminated practically speaking, and completely eliminated in principle. Thus, there is nothing left to teach the very lesson you think investors have learned.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Right on. If you reward or are indifferent toward misbehaving children, they’ll learn to misbehave.

FloatingRock on September 27, 2008 at 9:26 PM

but by a governing body taking money from one sector of the population and “giving” it to another.
Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:24 PM

I put, giving, in quotation because it will actually be wasted…Dodd will buy a new house for Franks.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:29 PM

How does she, or the rest of these asshats, walk the streets without getting throttled?

BallisticBob on September 27, 2008 at 9:14 PM

She doesn’t walk the streets now, I guarantee it. She’s in an armored SUV, and probably will be for the rest of her life.

fossten on September 27, 2008 at 9:32 PM

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:24 PM
This pain is essential for freedom, not just in financial markets, but for society as a whole.

If the sources of capital go into a death spiral, the economy implodes. That’s the bottom line. Inflicting that much misery on everyone in this country isn’t noble. You’re alternatives are moral hazard or economic collapse. I’ll take the former over the later.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:33 PM

Pelosi wants deal in principle by tonight

How does she, or the rest of these asshats, walk the streets without getting throttled?

BallisticBob on September 27, 2008 at 9:14 PM
—–

Ever been to San Francisco, Bob?

Pelosi blends.

Mew

acat on September 27, 2008 at 9:34 PM

If the sources of capital go into a death spiral, the economy implodes. That’s the bottom line. Inflicting that much misery on everyone in this country isn’t noble. You’re Your alternatives are moral hazard or economic collapse. I’ll take the former over the later latter.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:33 PM

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:36 PM

You’re alternatives are moral hazard or economic collapse. I’ll take the former over the later.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:33 PM

The only way you can get to those two results is if you believe that this bailout will work, and that the hands, which will administer the plan, can be trusted to carry it out in good faith.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 PM

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:39 PM

I believe the bailout may work and must be tried because the alternative is so dire.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:41 PM

Life is a corrupting process from the time a child learns to play his mother off against his father in the politics of when to go to bed; he who fears corruption fears life.
Saul Alinsky

They are really trying to give the Kondrieaf (sp) cycle a helping hand….

Acorn—what is the makeup of this group, older women…or 20 to 35 yr old militant males?

sbark on September 27, 2008 at 9:42 PM

I believe the bailout may work and must be tried because the alternative is so dire.

phronesis on September 27, 2008 at 9:41 PM

I don’t agree, but I get where you’re coming from.

Weight of Glory on September 27, 2008 at 9:45 PM

I feel as if The Road to Serfdom should automatically become required reading for everyone. Everywhere.

The parallels between that and what’s going on today is just overwhelming.

CTDeLude on September 27, 2008 at 9:48 PM

High marks for staying on top of this, Wethal. Thanks!

ManlyRash on September 27, 2008 at 9:18 PM

Thanks, ManlyRash. I’m hoping Paulson being over in Boehner’s office, the GOP having reinforcements, and that Boehner went on record today as against pork (including ACORN funding), all means the GOP is somehow coming to a consensus. If backed up by Paulson (and presumably Bush), the Dems would have to cave.

After Nancy’s assault on the GOP’s patriotism, I hope she has to eat her words before she smiles for the photo op with Boehner, Bush, Paulson, McCain, et al.

Wethal on September 27, 2008 at 10:10 PM

Dodd’s preposterous proposal to make sure ACORN gets a cut of the income

I say: If ACORN gets a penny out of this, then the deal – come hell or high water – should be killed. Billions for Bailout – maybe – but not a penny for these commie b***ards.

And Chris Dodd can go to h**l as well. And Pelosi. And Reid. And every one of these godforsaken bloodsucking thieving Democrats. I’d rather see the economy go straight to h**l, than give in to the politicking of these pigs.

This is really too much, if there is even a vote on a package that includes the vermin at ACORN, I say to hell with them all.

seanrobins on September 27, 2008 at 10:19 PM

the vermin at ACORN

Just as an aside: Something really needs to be done to destroy ACORN, and the Dems that support them. Really.

seanrobins on September 27, 2008 at 10:21 PM

I feel as if The Road to Serfdom should automatically become required reading for everyone. Everywhere.

The parallels between that and what’s going on today is just overwhelming.

CTDeLude on September 27, 2008 at 9:48 PM

I read somewhere that Palin has read it. That is a good sign for her.

Sapwolf on September 27, 2008 at 10:22 PM

It’s on my bookshelf behind me as I type.

Sapwolf on September 27, 2008 at 10:24 PM

This video is incredible…

ebrawer on September 27, 2008 at 10:26 PM

Druge is reporting that a banker in England has killed himself. This is now getting my full, undivided attention.

cjs1943 on September 27, 2008 at 10:26 PM

I say: If ACORN gets a penny out of this, then the deal – come hell or high water – should be killed. Billions for Bailout – maybe – but not a penny for these commie b***ards.

And Chris Dodd can go to h**l as well. And Pelosi. And Reid. And every one of these godforsaken bloodsucking thieving Democrats. I’d rather see the economy go straight to h**l, than give in to the politicking of these pigs.

This is really too much, if there is even a vote on a package that includes the vermin at ACORN, I say to hell with them all.

seanrobins on September 27, 2008 at 10:19 PM

Agreed seanrobbins. Maverick had better make sure there is no pork especially for ACORN and unions after his accountability and veto pen speach the other night. Boehner , McCain, and any other Repub had better be prepared to name the pork and names behind it and make sure the Dems and Paulson know they will take it directly to FOX and the American people where their money is going.

dhunter on September 27, 2008 at 10:39 PM

Well, maybe the GOP should invite a Blue Dog into the negotiations, see what they could get from the Blue Dogs, and work to get a House majority of Republicans + Blue Dogs, and tell the Senate negotiators “this will pass the House, let’s do it!”

Steve Z on September 27, 2008 at 7:46 PM

This is the way the Congressional Republicans should go.

1) Construct a GOOD PLAN that has ZERO PORK, protects the taxpayers, loans from the government to the banks to allow them to gradually work the bad loans off their balance sheets and/or be sold to other banks, phase out of existence Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and end CRA forever.

2) Sell the plan to the Blue-Dog Democrats and get just enough so that Bush can sign it and get Paulson’s OK. Refer when talking about it to “THE GOOD PLAN”. Let the name stick.

3) Get McCain to step up to lead the whole effort while Bush watches.

4) Watch the polls go up for McCain within 4 days after the signing.

5) Don’t even bother with the other Dems. Republicans unite and pull in enough blue-dogs to get a wonderful bailout plan lead by McCain that saves the world.

Sapwolf on September 27, 2008 at 10:42 PM

6) One other thing I forgot: Repeal Market to Market of SOX regulations ASAP.

Sapwolf on September 27, 2008 at 10:43 PM

Agreed seanrobbins. Maverick had better make sure there is no pork especially for ACORN and unions after his accountability and veto pen speach the other night. Boehner , McCain, and any other Repub had better be prepared to name the pork and names behind it and make sure the Dems and Paulson know they will take it directly to FOX and the American people where their money is going.
dhunter on September 27, 2008 at 10:39 PM

Dude, McCain doesn’t hold the veto pen. George W Bush holds the veto pen.

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 10:55 PM

Sapwolf on September 27, 2008 at 10:43 PM

those are good ideas, and we really need them, but I doubt the democRATs will allow it, and I doubt bush would sign that goof that he is.

if they would eliminate capital gains and business taxes, this economy would explode.

right4life on September 27, 2008 at 10:57 PM

explode in a good way…

right4life on September 27, 2008 at 10:58 PM

That video is damning evidence of the corruption in Washington. If our investments tank there ought to be blood in the streets. These people are despicable.

wepeople on September 27, 2008 at 11:24 PM

funky chicken on September 27, 2008 at 10:55 PM

dude, I never said McCain held the veto pen yet. I said his “veto pen speech the other night”.

Point is the taxpayers should not be funding pork anyway but it is especially unconsionable to load up this bill which is to going be the greatest taxpayer jab in history in order to bale out our supposedly nearly collapsing financial markets.

Anyone wonder what if they grab our 7 billion and markets collapse anyway? I guess at that point it won’t much matter he who has the most cash and land wins.

dhunter on September 27, 2008 at 11:30 PM

This is the way the Congressional Republicans should go:
1. No taxpayer money. This must be funded 100% by private enterprise.
2. Any agreement should result in the eventual dissolution of the GSEs.

paulsur on September 27, 2008 at 11:34 PM

Point is the taxpayers should not be funding pork anyway but it is especially unconscionable to load up this bill which is to going be the greatest taxpayer jab in history in order to bale out our supposedly nearly collapsing financial markets.

Anyone wonder what if they grab our 7 billion and markets collapse anyway? I guess at that point it won’t much matter he who has the most cash and land wins.

dhunter on September 27, 2008 at 11:30 PM

DH – I’m going to state something that is pretty obvious to the HA crowd – they (Donks) don’t “get it.” They didn’t “get it” back in 2003-2006 with people telling them about Fannie and Freddie, and they don’t “get it” now.

It’s been all politics, all the time with them on the “Bailout” from beginning to end. It has nothing to do with serving the public – if it did, they would have passed something themselves (as they *can*) without the need for GOP cover.

I’ll tell you what I think they get – political power/prestige. It’s all about serving themselves. I’m not really talking about their constituencies either; they’d sell they’re mother on a corner if it got them something tangible in DC.

It’s amazing how embarrassingly bad the GOP are handling the PR on this. They should be screaming to the hills, coast to coast what is going on, and what they are trying to do about the problem (not the players, that is a Donk tactic). Maybe they expect what the MSM will do to them and not try before they even get started.

SkinnerVic on September 27, 2008 at 11:45 PM

Since I watch the currency and numismatic markets a bit, I saw a headline that might be of interest to those here considering such:

US Mint suspends sale of 24-karat gold coins

If you we’re in the market for such, I hope you got what you wanted. It’s turning into a cat-fight in coin land right now. Major players I know shut down their order desk at Noon yesterday because they we’re depleted of stock…

SkinnerVic on September 27, 2008 at 11:51 PM

Okay… almost midnight. Looks like tonight is almost over and, as usual for Pelosi/Reid & Co… nothing done. Harry was right… they don’t know what to do.

CC

CapedConservative on September 27, 2008 at 11:58 PM

It’s amazing how embarrassingly bad the GOP are handling the PR on this. They should be screaming to the hills, coast to coast what is going on, and what they are trying to do about the problem (not the players, that is a Donk tactic). Maybe they expect what the MSM will do to them and not try before they even get started.

SkinnerVic on September 27, 2008 at 11:45 PM

Dude. Knock it off. The Republicans are screaming to the hills. The problem is that the only network that will point a camera at them is Fox.

fossten on September 28, 2008 at 12:01 AM

I realize that many of these people come from districts that will never vote for a Republican. Okay. But you would at least think that another Democrat could use this against them in a primary race. Almost makes me want to move to one of these areas, change my party and then go to DC and get my NICE HUGE FAT PIECE OF THE PIE!

CC

CapedConservative on September 28, 2008 at 12:03 AM

Kristol is full of crap. The House GOP needs to stick to their guns. Loans and insurance and no ACORN and repeal the CRA or no deal. We are being hoodwined. Not a grand conspiracy to “control” us. But the money boys are fleecing us in partnership with the libs who want more power. We draw the line here or watch the Republic start down the drain.

bill30097 on September 28, 2008 at 12:06 AM

Dude. Knock it off. The Republicans are screaming to the hills. The problem is that the only network that will point a camera at them is Fox.

fossten on September 28, 2008 at 12:01 AM

I’m pretty despondent right now. You almost prove my point – Fox is the only one giving them air to breath. I get sick and tired of the spin with comments like this in these articles, “Blunt, the lead negotiator for recalcitrant House Republicans…” It’s funny though that Paulson set up shop in Boehner’s office!

SkinnerVic on September 28, 2008 at 12:14 AM

Just got back from dinner with my dad. CPA, very successful Big 3 auto dealer. Here’s what he said:

1. liquidity crisis is real
2. it will take taxpayer dollars, but he reiterated that it will make the gvmt money in the long run
3. 700 billion is way too much money
4. Bush is a moron for letting his Goldman Sachs alumni convince him that it would cost 700 billion (Paulson and Bolton)
5. the sky will not fall if negotiations take until Tuesday or Wednesday, but it would be better if they get it done by Monday

interesting side note: WaMu failed because, in his words, they decided to become “the Wal-Mart of mortgage banks” and built lots of offices in “the ghetto” and made loans to people who could and would never pay them back. He said it was a terrible business plan that was bound to fail, and (surprise!) it failed.

FWIW

funky chicken on September 28, 2008 at 12:16 AM

here’s what happened when I tried to promote that same video …

http://darkegop.blogspot.com/2008/09/abc-news-is-stifling-user-comments-that.html

darkegop on September 28, 2008 at 12:18 AM

It’s funny though that Paulson set up shop in Boehner’s office!

SkinnerVic on September 28, 2008 at 12:14 AM

It’s a very good sign.

funky chicken on September 28, 2008 at 12:23 AM

Turn on the news.
They’re going to issue some statement.

tehd on September 28, 2008 at 12:25 AM

Is there money in the bail-out for scaffolding and rope?
I believe a dozen or so nooses are in order.

Calm Before the Storm on September 28, 2008 at 12:35 AM

Can’t wait for this shit to be done so we can proceed with the lynching.

Calm Before the Storm on September 28, 2008 at 12:37 AM

Dems look happy. Now I’m worried.

NightmareOnKStreet on September 28, 2008 at 12:38 AM

If the republicans caved on ACORN they are toast.

neuquenguy on September 28, 2008 at 12:40 AM

Bunch of sellouts to this country – Schumer, Frank, Dodd were all grinning ear to ear tonight. These men are despicable individuals; they helped create this mess and now pretend to save the day.

dugan on September 28, 2008 at 12:40 AM

Schumer, Frank, Dodd were all grinning ear to ear tonight. These men are despicable individuals; they helped create this mess and now pretend to save the day.

dugan on September 28, 2008 at 12:40 AM

And that is George W Bush’s fault. no ifs, ands, or buts.

funky chicken on September 28, 2008 at 12:53 AM

Monday morning I am going in to work late so I can stock up on Ammo (real Ammo) I advse all here to do the same. Here in GA we have gas shortages and over 50% of stations are out and others have lines of 10+ cars each. At a family gathering today I heard gunshops are getting low on ammo. Looks like the tree of Liberty is about to get watered.

bill30097 on September 28, 2008 at 12:56 AM

Quote from the WaPo:

“Administration officials have stressed that the ultimate cost of the bailout would be much less than $700 billion because the government would eventually sell the assets it purchased and recover most, if not all, of what it spends.”

Why is it that the pocket my wallet is in begins to itch very badly whenever anyone from Washington D.C. tells me the cost of one of their “programs” will be LESS than what they are asking for? The track record of our wonderful Federal Gov. is rather poor in this regard. Really glad my children and their children (if there ARE any children then) will be paying for ACORN programs.

djtnt on September 28, 2008 at 1:12 AM

Did anybody read the Telegraph post that AP posted?

It refers to the “Rebel Republicans”.

Fuckers. This is why I hate the UK. The BBC is nothing but an extension of the F’in Dem Party.

I hope Islam makes the UK its bitch over the next 100 years.

Sapwolf on September 28, 2008 at 1:19 AM

The Telegraph refers to “Rebel Republicans”.

The UK can go to hell.

Better yet, I hope Islam makes them their bitch over the next 100 years.

Sapwolf on September 28, 2008 at 1:21 AM

Whatever the quoted figure of expected costs, multiply it 10fold and another 10fold.

It is a fraudulent set-up to make US citizens assume global banking interests’ debt, coerce us into their servitude over a debt that wasn’t even American. Naming housing defaults is just smoke and mirrors to evoke sympathy vote or fear factor vote. Most of us have yet to learn that the Federal Reserve is an autonomous entity; through this bill they would take over our entire government assuming themselves as the new fourth and supreme branch of our government–but being global, not national.

The German’s can’t hold back their glee.

We must defy this legislation from occurring.

maverick muse on September 28, 2008 at 2:26 AM

The reason Paulson’s story pushed the panic button proves his illegitimacy. His cohort’s planned to force this debt onto Americans so that we have no time to respond before our rights evaporate.

So long as NOTHING CHANGES THIS MONTH Americans will still have our Constitutional Rights. We actually CAN show up in revolt in Washington DC without being arrested by the new order being ushered in by Paulson.

Damn Clinton for this. Damn Bush for it, too. Damn any legislator who tries to score power points by signing off our rights in exchange for DEBT AND SERVITUDE.

Bring on the temporary Depression and keep the Constitution intact rather than tossing it out for Perpetual Indentured Service, not even a free ride.

maverick muse on September 28, 2008 at 2:34 AM

BREAKING NEWS:

SEC Chairman concedes Oversight Flaws fueled Collapse.

It may be the NYT, but it puts truth behind McCain’s statement about firing the SEC Chair for being a moron.

Sakaki on September 28, 2008 at 3:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY

Burning Down The House: What Caused Our Economic Crisis? V2

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 3:15 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiEWCnpNnBQ

Covering Your Fannie, Who Really Caused Our Economic Crisis?
(This one shows more of what McCain’s bill had in it)

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 3:19 AM

I was disappointed when bill O. said no one told him that the banks were making bad loans. Maybe bill and the factor are not on McCains daily mailing list. As much as i respect fox news for thier reporting they could have and should have reported the risky policies of the left years ago.

I thought O’Factor abhorred those that “blame someone else”… in this case, FoxNews and/or O’Factor paid no attention to items such as McCain’s (et al) attempted fix via SB190 that was defeated by a partly-line Dem vote in committee.

Considering the current political leanings of the Fourth Estate, I see little hope for our nation to avoid ruin.

electric-rascal on September 28, 2008 at 4:20 AM

Reduce the Bailout!!!!!, printing more money will make our dollar weaker, driving the Oil futures higher, thus not only making US pay for the $700 Billion but also making us pay for inflated Oil prices and everything that goes along with that.. higher gas prices, higher food prices, everything you buy at the stores, everything in our economy is tied to Oil.. and Oil is tied to the strength of the US Dollar.

So, what we need to do, Kill or extremely limit the bail out at least cut it into or 1/3 or 1/4 of the size it is now.. 250 Billion maybe.. let the markets work

Then, We need to Totally Ramp UP ALL Oil(Including ANWR, and all the natural gas),Oil shale, Clean Coal, and More New Nuclear Power plants Here in the United States, More Refineries, more wind, solar, new technologies, conservation ALL OF IT.. the ALL OF THE ABOVE PLAN.

Lower Corporate Tax dramatically and drastically(that will increase investment from home and abroad, create new business and create more jobs)

Lower the Capital Gains Tax again that will increase investments and create more revenues..

Increasing the Energy sector and new development will create Lots of new jobs, and new investment, people will start to invest in raw materials(because things need to be built), this would be be a huge boom industry and would get us off of foreign energy and would held our markets all at the same time..

Also, the RAW materials like STEEL used for the New Oil Rigs, and New Nuclear Power plants, and Wind Turbines could be a way to reopen the Steel Mills( or more could be built/upgraded) across the midwest that have recently shut down.. (thus more jobs)

things need to be built, Oil Rigs for off and onshore(US Steel, US Mining), Nuclear Power Plants(US Steel, US Mining), Wind Turbines(US Steel, US Mining) US Engineering..

AND ALSO CUT GOVERNMENT WASTEFUL SPENDING

How to stop if from happening again, what to do now

Get rid, of the NINJA(No Income No Job No Asset) Loans, That’s not compassionate it’s irresponsible, and predatory. (It should be a crime)

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 5:08 AM

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 6:32 AM

Just did. Was going to post but you beat me to it. Great read!

Nyog_of_the_Bog on September 28, 2008 at 6:58 AM

As someone on one of the Saturday shows said yesterday, we can have either 18 months of bad times or 18 years… looks like we went for the 18 years.

CC

CapedConservative on September 28, 2008 at 7:26 AM

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 6:32 AM

Just did. Was going to post but you beat me to it. Great read!

Nyog_of_the_Bog on September 28, 2008 at 6:58 AM

And thats why I supported Rudy and was pushing him for President even before he announced!

Rudy knows whats going on!

He would make an Excellent Attorney general to investigate and prosecute congress and the rest of them for this mess..

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 7:42 AM

He would make an Excellent Attorney general to investigate and prosecute congress and the rest of them for this mess..

Chakra Hammer on September 28, 2008 at 7:42 AM

Dreamer. No one (of consequence) will be arrested. No one will be prosecuted. All these cute and revealing videos we’ve all seen will never see the effective light of day. All the key players responsible (Dodd, Fwank & Co. along with Pelosi & Reid) will all be reelected.

Next week, the market will zoom. Praise be to Allah!

In the mean time, the now $60 trillion in default swaps (beginning to finally make a little news) is still there (tick tock tick tock). The dollar will, in the near future, begin a very long slide to complete irrelevancy. I expect oil to reach $200 by the end of November, bounce around up and down before taking off again. If you live in the northeast, your heating oil costs will rise (is that sufficient term?).

Now, let’s compound that a bit by tossing in some inflation. Who knows, it may even go hyper.

In the mean time, we’ve accomplished our objective. Goldman Sachs is saved… along with a number of other unnamed credit default swap holders. This ball started rolling downhill when we “saved” Fannie/Freddie and AIG. The AIG save was caused by a mere $11 Billion (with a B) of their swaps being triggered. Fannie/Freddie would have triggered a trillion. This is all operating from a sophisiticated new theory that we have an unlimited supply of money at the federal level. Print any amount we wish because it’s based on the “full faith and credit” and all that jazz. The truly amazing part is how many people think the situation just got better because we’ve temporarily saved an even larger group. Remember this day.

CC

CapedConservative on September 28, 2008 at 8:17 AM

An ice cube compared to the waiting iceberg….

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28melt.html?ref=us

CC

CapedConservative on September 28, 2008 at 8:30 AM

No more negative posts will be allowed henceforth.

Everything will be fine; Obamaman is on the job. Leaping tall buildings faster than a speeding bullet train, or something.

All hail the Obama.

hillbillyjim on September 28, 2008 at 8:37 AM

Waffles Kerry is on Fox News Sunday touting the bailout plan – and saying it was all Obama’s idea. No surprise here, the Dem’s talking points will be to blame McCain and herald Obama on this one.

One problem – Obama only came to Washington when asked by the President….then left immediately afterward.

dugan on September 28, 2008 at 9:12 AM

If Obama wins you cannot blame conservatives. To paraphrase Chesterton, conservatism wasn’t tried and found wanting, conservatism was tried and found difficult.

Angry Dumbo on September 28, 2008 at 9:36 AM

Here’s a somewhat non-PC video that uses comedy to EXACTLY explain what went on..

Via Belmont Club

DanM on September 28, 2008 at 9:43 AM

Considering the current political leanings of the Fourth Estate, I see little hope for our nation to avoid ruin. -electric-rascal on September 28, 2008 at 4:20 AM

Secession and civil war are looming.

ManlyRash on September 28, 2008 at 10:00 AM

It’s obviously not so great a crisis that Dodd would stop the fraud.

Until it is, no deal.

Dodd is an utter embarassment. A dishonest jerk.

drjohn on September 28, 2008 at 10:06 AM

Waffles Kerry is on Fox News Sunday touting the bailout plan – and saying it was all Obama’s idea. No surprise here, the Dem’s talking points will be to blame McCain and herald Obama on this one.
One problem – Obama only came to Washington when asked by the President….then left immediately afterward.
dugan on September 28, 2008 at 9:12 AM

Yeah, I saw that. And he used the lie ‘until politics was injected into the process’ – in other words, when republicans came into this and messed it up. I had to turn off the tv at that point. I really hate watching that a*hole and others get away with lying like that.

wise_man on September 28, 2008 at 10:17 AM

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