Debate #1 wrap-up; Update: Kissinger repudiates Obama
posted at 11:06 pm on September 26, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Given the uncertainty surrounding the presidential debate tonight, I wasn’t sure exactly what to expect. Both Barack Obama and John McCain have had to fly more than they expected in the last couple of days, and neither got a chance to focus on preparation, at least not to the extent they planned. I figured we’d see at least one major gaffe or breakdown from one of the candidates, and honestly, I wasn’t looking forward to seeing it.
However, I think both men did better than I expected. Neither seemed to show any effects from the hectic pace of the past week, and both appeared ready and relaxed at the start of tonight’s debate. I’d also include Jim Lehrer in that description, even though he had to rewrite part of his script to accommodate the economic crisis. Lehrer gave the debate a light touch as moderator, allowing the candidates plenty of space to talk and encouraging dialogue rather than speechmaking. It was perhaps one of the best presidential debates I’ve seen in this cycle, maybe the best.
With that said, McCain clearly got the best of Obama tonight. After a shaky couple of minutes to start the first question, McCain jabbed at Obama all night long — and he got Obama obviously flustered. While McCain kept his equanimity and never raised his tone or pitch, Obama got visibly upset, his voice pitched higher when responding to McCain, and Obama interrupted more. Obama also kept calling McCain “John” while McCain used the more proper “Senator Obama”, a difference that grated as the evening wore on.
Substantially, McCain also bested Obama on both economics and foreign policy. On the former, it was most apparent when Lehrer asked both candidates what they would cut as President after the bailout package passes. Obama could not bring himself to commit to one single cut, and instead talked about all of the funding he wanted to create for pet programs. McCain noted that he has long championed spending reductions and proposed a spending freeze on all but the most vital programs. When challenged on this point, Obama refused to say whether he would accept a freeze.
I did have a moment of frustration with McCain on the first question, a round I think Obama won. He never challenged Obama’s assumptions that the current credit crisis came from too little regulation. I kept expecting McCain to talk about the disaster of the Community Reinvestment Act, and the mandates from Congress that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac encourage bad lending by buying up bad paper. Instead, he tried to out-populist Obama, and Obama sounds more authentic as a populist.
On foreign policy, Obama did better than expected, but still fell short. I think his response on the decision to go into Iraq was quite good (even if I disagree with it), but he kept trying to argue that he didn’t demand a precipitous withdrawal in 2007 when the record clearly shows he did — and he beat Hillary to death with it in the primaries. McCain drew blood when he pointed out that for all of Obama’s talk about the priority of Afghanistan, he never once bothered to visit that front until last July, even though his Senate subcommittee has jurisdiction on NATO issues. Obama spluttered in response but never did explain why such an important theater wasn’t worth a single visit from him.
On Georgia, Russia, and eastern Europe, McCain proved himself the master of detailed foreign-policy thinking. While Obama talked briefly about the potential for NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine and pledged to “rebuild Georgia’s economy”, McCain explained the geopolitical realities of the entire region, and Russia’s intentions for it.
If Obama expected the old man to be too tired to debate properly, he is surely disappointed tonight. McCain kept Obama on defense all night long, made Obama lose his composure, and maintained his own in a very presidential performance. This one is a clear win for McCain.
Update: Obama tried to twist out of the “no preconditions” statement by claiming that Henry Kissinger supported it. McCain openly scoffed at the notion, and for good reason — Kissinger didn’t say it:
Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: “Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality.”
Either Obama lied, or he’s too inexperienced to understand what Kissinger said and actually meant.
One more point about Obama’s obfuscations about “preparations” as opposed to “preconditions”: he originally said that he would meet with Ahmadinejad, Castro, Kim, and Chavez in his first year in office:
QUESTION: In 1982, Anwar Sadat traveled to Israel, a trip that resulted in a peace agreement that has lasted ever since.
In the spirit of that type of bold leadership, would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?
COOPER: I should also point out that Stephen is in the crowd tonight.
Senator Obama?
OBAMA: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration — is ridiculous.
How much “preparation” time would he have?
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Good, it means you have a heart and empathy for others. I call on all my fellow conservatives to stop using terms like “The One” or “Messiah” when describing Senator Obama.
philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 4:58 AM
More like grandpa.
philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 4:58 AM
When is the Media going to start vetting Obama?
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:01 AM
If you mean that lying about what Kissinger said, or that McCain was the fault of the problems now with the economy..
Well.. we will see..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH–o
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:03 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH–o
Obama is Jimmy Carter II
America cannot afford Another Jimmy Carter.
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:04 AM
Obama owns one house and one car. Can the same be said for McCain?
Obama has one wife and has stayed faithful to her since the beginning. Can the same be said for McCain?
Obama has a traditional, Christian, God-fearing family with upright, conservative values. Can the same be said for McCain?
Only one candidate is in touch with regular Americans. Barack Obama.
philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:14 AM
Chakra Hammer, I think you messed up the link on your last comment… but that is an important video that needs to be posted anywhere and everywhere, and emailed to everyone you know.
As for this…
This guy has to be kidding, right? I don’t think I’ll even respond because the lunacy is just…. just…. indescribable.
RightWinged on September 27, 2008 at 5:17 AM
No, you won’t respond because you can’t respond. Check mate.
philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:27 AM
Prove that shes a female..
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:28 AM
Obama is the only one that has friends that are terrorist
Obama is the only one that is 17 year friends with slumlord, and convicted felon Tony Rezko that he took bribes and campaign cash from and he did NOT testify in court against Nor did he ask to be a character witness against him, It was Obama’s duty to his constituants to see that Rezko go to jail.
Obama was the Only one to get a land and house deal from a slumlord that sold out his own constituents in his own District.
Obama has never served in the military..
Obama kiles to kill babies..
Obama compares babies to STD’s
Obama to the question of Human rights is “above his pay grade”
Obama is the only one
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:35 AM
to snort cocaine and marijuana and brag about it.
maybe he chronically masturbates too?(I wouldn’t doubt it his wife is a skank)
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:37 AM
Oh yeah, he’s in touch with us bitter gun clingy sorts. (eye roll) Praise Obama, may the rainbows and unicorns and happy-happy joy-joy fun-gasm start…
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on September 27, 2008 at 5:40 AM
Ed, and HA make RCP!
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Limerick on September 27, 2008 at 5:41 AM
Hahahahaha! I won’t ridicule you for that comment, Phil, because I take the same stance with your ilk pretty regularly. But let the record show, that I truly won’t bother responding to you, because you are just that much of a lunatic and a troll. I’ll let the others handle you… for now. I’ve wasted time on folks like you before, but after realizing I can’t underange the deranged, I tend not to waste my time these days… Though if you catch me in the right mood one of these days, I may oblige. But again, for the record, your comment is so insane, I almost initially read it as a parody. And I am being totally cereal when I say that. (Manbearpig fans will get the “cereal” part)
RightWinged on September 27, 2008 at 5:52 AM
Are you cereal?
MANBEARPIG!!!!!!!!!!
AL GORE!!!!!!!
THE EARTH IS GETTING HOT!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 5:56 AM
What Caused Our Economic Crisis? Democrats and Obama.. Bush and McCain tried to fix it, and Democrats Blocked it time after time
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 6:01 AM
CHECKMATE!!!!!!!
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 6:02 AM
What Caused Our Economic Crisis? Democrats and Obama.. Bush and McCain tried to fix it, and Democrats Blocked it time after time
CHECKMATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 6:02 AM
Obama is the only one to played the race card on himself!
Barack Obama “BTW, Did you know that he’s black?”
LMAO!!!!!! what a maroon!
Chakra Hammer on September 27, 2008 at 6:20 AM
Time for the meds to wear off, ya think?
Coronagold on September 27, 2008 at 6:43 AM
Obama’s “upright, conservative values” include abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy, and infanticide for any baby that survives the abortion attempt. Obama’s “conservative values” also include support for total gun bans, friendships with unrepentant domestic terrorists, support for massive entitlement programs (including more affirmative action and racial preference programs), open borders and amnesty for all illegal aliens, etc.
And Obama is a “traditional Christian” only if that term includes someone who attends a “church” for decades where Muslims are welcomed as members, white people are turned away, and the pastor blames all of the world’s problems on evil, greedy, white Americans, begs God to “damn Amerikkka,” and preaches that if God isn’t on the side of black Americans, then God should be killed.
The only Americans Obama is “in touch with” are loony, far-Left, anti-American, Socialist nutcases like himself.
Does Axelrod pay you to post your nonsense? If you’re going to shill for Obama, at least say something that’s not so clearly absurd.
AZCoyote on September 27, 2008 at 6:44 AM
I wonder if the GOP could mount a coup in the Senate. Get Lieberman to vote with them while Kennedy is out. Gives them a 50 to 49 majority. Could they oust Reid?
huckleberryfriend on September 27, 2008 at 6:52 AM
Perfect qualifications for a , uh, community organizer. I’ll uh, vote for him for uh, that. Or uh, maybe even for uh, dog catcher. Uh, no, that’s too much responsibility. Dog catchers aren’t allowed to vote “uh, present”.
Squiggy on September 27, 2008 at 7:07 AM
Did BO repeat that FDR on TV line like his buddy???
kflynn on September 27, 2008 at 7:19 AM
The only “regular American’s” B.O. keeps “in touch” with are his Chicago Democratic political machine pals like Emil Jones and the Strogers, and his good anti-American buddy William Ayers, not to mention some of his pals who used to run around with the Weather Underground and have not change their Socialist views very much since then.
With “regular Americans” like this, who needs someone like Hugo Chavez?
pilamaye on September 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM
Ed, Obama made a HUGE BLUNDER last night on foreign policy.
He stated that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq prior to the US Invasion of 2003. This is just absurd. It’s a tired old Leftwing HuffPo/Daily Kos talking point that has been disproven even by the liberal media themselves, like CNN.
I cannot believe this is not the Headline story from last night. When I heard Obama say that I jumped from my seat. I thought for surely, this is the major gaffe of the 2008 campaign.
Doesn’t anyone remember that Zarcawi was in Baghdad as early as 2001? And that Saddam harbred TWO! Terrorist Training Camps, including Ansar Al-Islam (Al Qaeda in Iraq).
ericdondero on September 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM
From an international position after watching the debate and reading the comments.
What is clear, no lessons about mis-imformation leading to the Iraq war has been learnt.
To see a Presidential candiate using the ‘wipe Israel off the map’ myth to condone a nuclear strike on Iran, makes you look stupid and bush-like.
The quote,as profressors of farsi in Israel have agreed is,
‘As the iman said(he was quoting the ayatollah khomeni-who said it in the 80’s)The regime occupying jeruselam(zionism) will vanish from the pages of time’
Like communism/nazism,things will pass.When we wanted to rid the ussr of communism it did not mean we wanted to kill all russians.It is the ideology.
Regimes and systems of laws will change.Aparthied in south africa has vanished from the pages of time.
There is no farsi word for ‘wipe off’ it’s a western term that they have not heard of,the word Israel or map was not used ,we can not believe you are being so ignorant.
Death to Israel/America, They say attack THEM and they will RETALIATE.
The U.S says attack Israel and we will collectively anihilate the whole of Iran.
The Iranian people are the most pro west/u.s in the region they want help to change there political landscape,but not by outside force.
Persians are proud dignified ancient civilisation which is full of history and artefacts.They want and deserve respect.
Everytime they are mis-quoted or not understood and threatened for it,what would you think they would do?What would you do?
You would align yourselves behind a leader who you might not agree with,but you can see the threat and you would try your best to get the biggest bomb to protect your family from the lying great satan.
mags on September 27, 2008 at 7:31 AM
McCain was outstanding last night.
Obama should vote for McCain if he has ANY sense at all.
Urban Infidel on September 27, 2008 at 7:51 AM
philnewkirk, I don’t care. I don’t want to live in a socialist country. None of that makes McCain a bad person and none of it disqualifies him for the presidency. Furthermore, if the mast majority of liberals are anything to go by, it’s McCain who’s ‘in touch’ with the nation.
I mean get real. Plenty of perfectly upstanding people get divorces and get remarried, and there is nothing inherently wrong with it.
MBP1982 on September 27, 2008 at 7:52 AM
I don’t know if I should laugh, or cry, at that.
Limerick on September 27, 2008 at 7:52 AM
Mahmoud, is that you?
fossten on September 27, 2008 at 7:53 AM
And I definitely don’t care how many homes a person has. Talk about completely and utterly irrelevant, unless you’re completely green with envy.
MBP1982 on September 27, 2008 at 7:53 AM
I’ve read a ton of commentary since this political season started and I have to tell you. Your comment about us misunderstanding Irans intent is the most condescending and moronic post yet. Can you really translate away everything Iran has said about destroying the state of Israel?
Sad!
hawkdriver on September 27, 2008 at 7:54 AM
He also kept saying “dividends” when he was talking about “deductions” in the tax code.
Deductions are the ear marks of the tax code.
Count to 10 on September 27, 2008 at 7:55 AM
mags is Juan Cole
rhodeymark on September 27, 2008 at 7:57 AM
Oh, and mags, the international press is leaking that Bush has kiboshed (a farsi term for stopped) any preemtive move by Israel so far. So, should the Iranian people still get access to open media, the will see that the West is STILL taking a measured response to the tiny terrorist.
rhodeymark on September 27, 2008 at 8:01 AM
PHILNEWKIRK @ 5:14 AM
You are totally insane.
volsense on September 27, 2008 at 8:02 AM
preemPtive PIMF
rhodeymark on September 27, 2008 at 8:02 AM
mags, from an American position, any time a large group of people take a US embassy hostage and keep 52 of our friends and neighbors in captivity for 444 days,; continually labels America as the “Great Satan” (no matter how many times you say you love Americans, we aren’t fond of being collectively called the Great Satan, see you chanting “Death to America” and so how do you think we should respond to these words?); supports terrorism in Lebanon, Israel, and Iraq continually through surrogates who undermine legally elected authority and kill through homicide bombings, it tends to irritate us and we get upset. We might even start disliking those who do so, no matter what their citizens think of the regime in charge of saying those words. If you keep supporting the killing of American soldiers in their duties in Iraq, raising the violence there, and thus, keeping our troops there longer until peace is achieved, we might even decide we dislike your regime, and the citizens who refuse to overthrow it, enough to bomb, destroy, blockade, and kill you. We just don’t like being threatened by your government either.
As for your denigration of the translation chosen for the words uttered by Mr. Ahmedinejad, perhaps he should have thought about how “Death to America”, “Israel will be removed from the pages of time” (Revision of history and denial of the Holocaust), “There will soon be a world without America” or “America is in final decline”, however you choose to translate it, perhaps Mr. Ahmadinejad should consider how we feel when he utters those words. English is not the easiest language in the world to use, but translations from Farsi to English need to be correct in both directions. And his words have great import to the average American. You don’t like our government? Then you don’t like us. We tend to take that very personally here.
As to whether the Iranian people are truly friendly to America or not, perhaps Mr. Ahmadinejad should consider how friendly the American people are towards his country when he disparages all of us with his lumping our government in with the rest of us as the “Great Satan”. None of us takes too kindly to his use of language. And we despise his actions against our troops in Iraq even more.
Next time you want to spout off about how friendly the Iranian people are towards us remember that we already know that. We are just tired of waiting for them to police their own house and get idiots and terrorists like Mr. Ahmedinejad and the mullahs out of their government, and start acting like they really want to be friendly by eliminating their meddling in other countries in the name of Allah.
Any other questions you want answered?
Subsunk
Subsunk on September 27, 2008 at 8:02 AM
Cry.
The price of ignorance and arrogance is high indeed. We didn’t completely understand the Nazis, we defeated them by killing them and breaking their stuff. We don’t need to completely understand the Islamofascists, we just need to kill them and break their stuff. Once the Germans were defeated the German people came around quite nicely. Defeat has a way of changing your world paradigm. The Japanese are our close ally now. Defeat has a way of doing that to you.
Now the punch line. We DEFEATED the Iraqis this time. Now they are our friends and they’re working with us to root out the remnants of the terrorists cells still in Iraq. We will DEFEAT the Iranians by killing them and breaking their stuff and then they’ll become our friends just like the Germans, Japanese, Italians, and the Iraqis. All we are saying is give victory a chance. It works.
Mojave Mark on September 27, 2008 at 8:02 AM
1. Irrelevant. The Obamas gets carted around Chicago be Daley Machine Thugs and the US Government provides The One with all his transportation needs. Cindy McCain actually has a company to run.
2. Jihn McCain admits his biggest moral failing was the the failure of his first marriage. Barack Obama thinks his biggest moral failing was not opposing the Iraq war soon enough. That really tells you all you need to know.
3. Thats funny, my traditional Christian church has never had my pastor declare “No no no, not God Bless America, God damn America!” It also defines abortion as an intrinsically evil act, as well as sodomy and all the other conservative: (read: Actual Catholic) values.
One man in this campaign understands the pain and suffering of every single veteran.
One man in this campaign barely understands himself, yet has written two books on the subject.
BKennedy on September 27, 2008 at 8:03 AM
So its all just some kind of statement of faith that Israel will just go away on its own?
Riiiight.
…
You may have noticed that the perception of strength is a big thing in that region of the world. So much so that calling someone week and declining is the equivalent of calling for attacks on them.
I think you can even work in the social ramifications of public stoning.
Count to 10 on September 27, 2008 at 8:04 AM
GOOGLE: SAUL ALINSKY BARRACK OBAMA LUCIFER
Is this really this obvious?
volsense on September 27, 2008 at 8:04 AM
philnewkirk must be thinking of some other Obama. They own one car? My God, what a hoot, the guy lives in a mansion, he makes millions in a year he rides around in limos and I am supposed to believe he is one of us?
Because he has had one wife? How many times does the average American get married? Come on…that has nothing to do with anything. John Kennedy had one wife, lots of women but one wife.
And the car and house thing, well that is stupid. McCain has a huge family, lots of kids, wife runs a big business and employees all sorts of people…Obama on the other hand gets his wife’s employer a grant and wife gets a raise. There is nothing average about it.
The thing that struck me the most about Obama last night were the lies. The outright, blatant, we are not even pretending to be honest lies.
For instance the present financial crisis was not brought about by a lack of regulation, it was brought about by liberals like Obama trying to make home ownership among lower income people and minorities a priority. I am sure that some of them might have even had good intentions when it all began back in the 90s, but it got out of hand.
If John Kerry had won the election in 2004, we would still be here. This is not about Bush.
Democrats would be lost without Bush, whoever would they blame?
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:06 AM
Don’t forget “capturing.”
There is, I think, an old German line that ends in “…and surrender to the first American you see.”
Anyway, it is all just the means of lowering moral. We clearly didn’t kill all of the Germans (or the Japanese, though that may have been a near thing), we broke their moral, and they gave up.
Count to 10 on September 27, 2008 at 8:08 AM
That’s close enough to the truth that it can stand. Iranians citizens are not the enemy. It’s the extremists that seem to be in charge since 1979 that are the problem. The average Iranian citizen is probably pretty tired of being cut off from the rest of the world, painted at being terrorist supporting, suffering through water – gas – electricity shortages, and being hung publicly in the streets if they happen to be gay. Just to name a very few things Iranian citizens have to deal with.
It’s just too bad they keep proving to be sheep and lack the backbone to do something about their situation.
But the reality is, Iran is lead by a extremist islamic terrorist supporting government that is determined to destory Isreal and kill every citizen in it. Iran would be better off if it’s government focused on taking care of it’s own citizens instead of destroying citizens in another country.
Hog Wild on September 27, 2008 at 8:11 AM
Crud…..I’m off to the Soylent Green factory to help bailout the economy. BTW, we give tours if anyone is interested. Just doing my patriotic duty for Meg’s utopia.
Limerick on September 27, 2008 at 8:12 AM
No, you won’t respond because you can’t respond. Check mate.
philnewkirk on September 27, 2008 at 5:27
This lil piece of truth is for you phil…
In her senior thesis at Princeton , Michelle Obama, the wife of Barrack Obama stated that America was a nation founded on crime and hatred. Moreover, she stated that whites in America were ineradicably racist. The 1985 thesis, titled ‘Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community’ was written under her maiden name, Michelle LaVaughn Robinson.
Michelle Obama stated in her thesis that to whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, she will always be black first. However, it was reported by a fellow black classmate, ‘If those whites at Princeton really saw Michelle as one who always would be black first, it seems that she gave them that impression.
Most alarming is Michelle Obama’s use of the terms separationist and integrationist when describing the views of black people. Mrs. Obama clearly identifies herself with a separationist’ view of race. By actually working with the black lower class within their communities, as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desperation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight.
Obama writes that the path she chose by attending Princeton would likely lead to her further integration and/or assimilation into a white cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society, never becoming a full participant. Michelle Obama clearly has a chip on her shoulder. Not only does she see separate black and white societies in America, but she elevates black over white in her world.
Here is another passage that is uncomfortable and ominous in meaning:
There was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the black community, I am obligated to this community and will utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit the black community first and foremost.
What is Michelle Obama planning to do with her resources if she is first lady?The following passage appears to be a call to arms for affirmative action policies that could be the hallmark of an Obama administration. Predominately white universities like Princeton are socially and academically designed to cater to the needs of the white students comprising the bulk of their enrollments.
The conclusion of her thesis is alarming. Michelle Obama’s poll of black alumni concludes that other black students at Princeton do not share her obsession with blackness. But rather than celebrate, she is horrified that black alumni identify with our common American culture more than they value the color of their skin. I hoped that these findings would help me conclude that despite the high degree of identification with whites resulting from the educational and occupatio nal paths that black Princeton alumni follow, the alumni would still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community. However, these findings do not support this possibility.
Is it no wonder that most black alumni ignored her racist questionnaire? Only 89 students responded out of 400 who were asked for input. Michelle Obama does not look into a crowd of Obama supporters and see Americans. She sees black people and white people eternally conflicted with one another.
The thesis provides Mrs. Obama’s world view, seen through a race-based prism. This is a very divisive view for a potential first lady that would do untold damage to race relations in this country. Michelle Obama’s intellectually refined racism should give all Americans pause for deep concern.
Let’s put a couple of angry racists in charge of our military! Yep, that’s about as good as it gets for Liberal twits.
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 8:14 AM
I did not get to watch it last night, but the best indicator from north of the border that McCain won is that the CBC is calling it a draw.
Jim708 on September 27, 2008 at 8:15 AM
PS: Yes, taxpayers (including those mean & nasty white people) funded her scholarships…
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 8:18 AM
This is a prime example of how “hopey & changey” views power and control over American freedoms.
http://www.kmov.com/video/index.html?nvid=285793&shu=1
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 8:22 AM
McCain knocked it out of the park! However, since I really enjoyed reading (and laughing!) about a blog reaction to the debate over at Newsbusters, I thought that I would encourage everyone here to go over and read it!
Reading New Republic Teas Leaves Determine Debate Winner
The last paragraph made me laugh out loud! I could not believe that any serious journalist would ever write such a stupid title!! Someone needs to point that writer in the direction of the Fox News Channel’s text message poll. As of last night, the “Who Won the Debate” question results were:
McCain – 82%
Obama – 16%
Undecided – 1%
Last I heard, over 56 thousand people participated in that text message poll!
Over at CNN, they utilized their typical spin to make one believe that Obama had a slight lead over McCain in the “who won” telephone poll they had conducted. Even one of the persons in their “after the debate panel” admitted that they had polled mostly Democrats and would have to see the national results that will be broadcast the next day. Ha!
The MSM spin is so laughable when it comes to their Obamabot mindset. It is like their brains have all been deprogrammed, then attached and assimilated by pseudo-humanoid drones like the Borg!
Christinewjc on September 27, 2008 at 8:26 AM
Another example of just how Obama views hope and change we all can believe in…
http://patterico.com/2008/09/26/obama-teaches-us-how-to-lie/
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 8:30 AM
What planet are you from? What Bible do you read? Listen to OBambi speak and listen to his words. He’s not conservative and he doesn’t believe or respect Christian values or God for that matter. How do you know he’s always been faithful to his wife and family? He worked for a corrupt government in Chicago, registering citizens to commit voter fraud.
Get your head out of your backside before you vote!
AubieJon on September 27, 2008 at 8:32 AM
I watched the debate with the local Young College Republicans and Young College Democrats. They had a (semi) secret ballot of those in the room, which came out 17 McCain, ~120 Obama.
…
Anyway, what struck me is how unenthusiastic the Obama part of the crowd was. They really only clapped when Obama told a lie or half-truth.
Count to 10 on September 27, 2008 at 8:36 AM
Let it be known, let it be written…
In the year 2008, journalism officially died. The media threw out any attempts at professionalism and became a cheer leader for Barack Hussein Obama, providing cover while organizing Liberal talking points in an all out effort to shape public opinion in favor of their candidate.
Dan Rathers sits by watching the cheer leading, understanding fully his historical part in the death of old school journalism.
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 8:36 AM
Watched it on Fox. I was so stoked I watched the repeat on Fox.
McCain owned the last 2 thirds. To the moon Alice!
hawkdriver on September 27, 2008 at 8:37 AM
I just saw the “Drudge” on line poll and the results were 66% McCain and 31% Obama. I understand that on line polls lack stringent controls but when you sample nearly on quarter of a million people the sampling errors tend to smooth. I would suspect that this poll is as valid and reliable as any of the mathematical garbage produced by the media. In fact it could well be much less biased than the media polls. McCain won this debate and the media will be hard pressed to deny it and still maintain any reasonable credibility . . . but I’m sure they will try.
rplat on September 27, 2008 at 8:40 AM
POINT: Obama stated that before we toppled Sadam Hussein, Al Queda was not in Iraq. Then he goes on to claim that Al Queda is in 60 countries. So are we to believe that in 4 years time Al Queda has managed to organize in 60 countries while simultaneously fighting the strongest military force in the world in Iraq and Afghanistan? Are we also to beleive that Al Queda was in 60 countries, but just not Iraq? To quote the BO, “uhhhhh….ahhh…ummmm…you….just….ummm…can’t….ahhh…..make this…ahhh…..stuff up.”
bloggless on September 27, 2008 at 8:41 AM
mags says the Iranians like us? Some of them might, but when I see the Death To America rallies, I tend to notice the other Iranians, the ones wishing death and mayhem on most of the planet.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:42 AM
That struck me as Obama’s biggest dissonance. Here he says Al Queda has spread to 60 countries, so we need to focus on only two of them, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Also, it was my impression that the attacks in Afghanistan are mostly from the Taliban, not so much Al Queda.
Count to 10 on September 27, 2008 at 8:46 AM
Obama does not seem to understand the nature of AlQaida, it is a disparate group without central leadership. Before the war there were terrorists in Iraq, in fact for many years Saddam Hussein had been considered a supporter of international terrorism.
Zarqawi was in Iraq. Abud Nidal supposedly shot himself in the head three times in Baghdad {you betcha} and Saddam had been paying off Palestinian suicide bombers, Hamas, and Zawahiri to cause trouble, kill people, wreak havoc…all that. And yet today a guy like Obama seems to think that the world would be a better place if Saddam were still in power in Iraq.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:47 AM
ABC News website caught four BO errors & only one by McCain.
jgapinoy on September 27, 2008 at 8:47 AM
Message Alert to Barack Obama:
YOU CAN JUST MAKE THIS STUFF UP. AND YOU DO.
bloggless on September 27, 2008 at 8:48 AM
Not to seem overly Pro Iranian, because I’m not. But you can find the same thing at a Code Pink rally.
Every country has their own “crazie’s” is my only point.
Hog Wild on September 27, 2008 at 8:48 AM
And the Iranian president’s recent reference to Israel as a “stinking corpse” was actually meant as a compliment, right? Just another little “misunderstanding” or “misinterpretation” of how Iranians really feel about Israel?
I have some beautiful oceanside property here in Arizona that you might be interested in buying.
AZCoyote on September 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Yes, the claims that AlQaida is more dangerous today is just silly. They are still there and they can still pull of attacks here and there and it will be a long time before they are really gone, but the idea that we are on the defensive and they are winning is absurd. If they are winning, why are they hiding?
And exactly what does Obama think he could do to get Osama that has not already been done?
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM
I watched Joe Scarborough this morning (which I never do) and I have a theory why the media perception of who won is different than most people. Most people seem to believe that McCain won the debate hands down. Obama appeared weak, indecisive, completely out of his league, dispassionate, and, if they could speak, he sounded EXACTLY like a college text book. John McCain was the antithesis of that. BUT, most commentators thought the debate was a draw. A DRAW!? Were they watching the same debate that I did? I expected that kind of response from the liberal media, but not from FOX. I’m telling you, for the first time in many, many years, I was in doubt of my ability to see things for what they are. I am partisan, but I know how to admit when the opposition is correct on issues. But then, after watching Scarborough this AM, it dawned on me that race may be playing a bigger part in this than I thought.
Let me preface my next remarks……I NEVER notice a persons skin color until they mention it. I attended school in South Philly and my dad was career Navy. I learned very early to judge people by their character and not their appearance or ethnicity.
Scarborough said the first thing he noticed (and had received numerous emails) about senator Obama was that he appeared darker. DARKER. I was completely flabbergasted. His African American guest said he noticed it too and expected it would turn into an attempt to make him look sinister. Good gravy! First I never noticed any color difference AND I don’t think darker skin makes someone appear sinister. What in the name of common sense are these people focused on?
Anyway, it dawned on me that it is entirely possible that every media outlet is being very cautious not to appear racist in any way, shape, or form. That short of a huge gaff by Obama, they are not going to take the chance that their coverage may appear biased against the African American candidate (which in its self is BS because Obama’s dad was not African AMERICAN. He was from Africa).
I believe this is entirely possible because Obama is the first serious black candidate for POTUS. And we all know that the dems have been playing the race card for at least a year during this campaign. So, all the rules about how coverage was done in the past do not apply.
Unless I went senile or became a complete partisan hack during the debate, I cannot think of any other reason for the difference between what I saw, and what others are saying they saw. I am scared to death that Obama will become president, because his policies will destroy this country. This economic crisis will be over in a short period and it will pretty much go back to running itself, but the security of this country is the sole responsibility of the president. Obama is completely unprepared to lead this county as the person who sets foreign policy.
I guess maybe the polls will tell, but even the polls can be affected by the weird spin that the pundits put on the realities of each candidates debate performance.
Anyone else have any comments? Am I completely off base and did Obama earn a draw in last nights debate?
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM
Did not Sadam offer a $25,000 bounty to suicide bombers for every Jew they killed? Oh, yeah, but that’s not Al Queda.
bloggless on September 27, 2008 at 8:50 AM
Hog Wild:
I know that, but code pink is not working on a nuclear program.
yet.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:50 AM
bloggless:
Yes, Saddam did give money to the families of suicide bombers. He also gave hundreds of thousands to Zawahiri, the second in command in AlQaida. He also offered sanctuary to Osama Bin Laden.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:52 AM
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM
McCain was Presidential, Confident, and prepared. BO appeared to be an annoying winged insect that McCain simply brushed off without so much as a glance.
Barry, we have something in common! I agree with John, too.
bloggless on September 27, 2008 at 8:53 AM
Subsunk,
As you must know the cia and here the (u.k)overthrough the democratically elected and much loved leader Mossedegh.We installed the brutal shah and trained their brutal police.The iranian revolutional resulted in this,your hostages were taken to prevent the u.s trying to reinstall the shah-which they had already donein the past.
The U.S supported and funded saddam hussein to attack Iran for 8 years,he used chemical weapons on them.
You can not get all pissy about being called the great satan,when your leader uses words like axis of evil.
There is no proof about Iran suppling arms,even if it is,is it not up to the Iraqi government to deal with,they have a very good relationship with Iran.
Yee Haa is not a foreign policy.
The reason you sheep are being led by your dicks to nuclear war is all about money /oil.
Saddam changed the petrodollars to trade to euro’s ,it made finincial sense,the u.s could not allow this,after the invasion it was one of the first things changed even though the iraqi people lost 17% on it.
Iran is trading it’s oil in euro’s yens and any currency.There is progress on a pipeline from iran through pakistan and India.
Your nation is bankrupt,powerless with no influence globally,cling to your guns and religion thats all you will have left.
mags on September 27, 2008 at 8:53 AM
I wonder what the lefties will think about their man sending MORE troops in Afghanistan?
bloggless on September 27, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Also after the first attack on the World Trade Center there was one man who escaped justice, his name was Yasin. He went to Baghdad and Saddam sheltered him. He disappeared in March 2003, at the time of the invasion.
I remember 60 Minutes going to Baghdad to do an interview with him.
But then again I also remember ABC doing a series back in 1999 on the ties between Saddam and Osama. I think it was called Target America or something.
That is something that never ceases to amaze me about the media and idiots like Obama, for years the prevailing sentiment was that Saddam was a menace, no one doubted it.Now they act as if this was some charge made by Bush and Bush alone.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Axelrod has you up late working, hope the pay is good.
jp on September 27, 2008 at 8:58 AM
If he is a man, his pay will be even better.
bloggless on September 27, 2008 at 8:59 AM
had Bush backed down to Saddam and left him in power. The Nation would be experts on Saddam and his Terrorist ties and activities. Bush would’ve been called “Derelect in Duty” for not taking him out, and it no telling what would’ve happened with him and his sons remaining in power.
remember, Al Gore in 1992 criticizing the first Bush for allowing Saddam to remain in power and gave a speech about how reckless it was because of all the terrorist ties of Saddam’s.
Democrats/Media are scumbags, they’ll politicize anything for power
jp on September 27, 2008 at 9:01 AM
I won’t go into minute detail on this, but you’re wrong about online polls in general. Just because lots of people participate doesn’t “smooth” out the sampling error. Also, most good media polls are NOT biased. And there’s a simple reason for that: if they are pushing an agenda rather than reflecting what is out there, they will be wrong on many occasions, and therefore, will start to lack credibility, and therefore, no one will ever consider them.
I say all this not as a partisan, but as someone who works in marketing research, so I know how and why polls are constructed the way they are.
Now if you want to criticize the Frank Luntz focus groups, that’s another story, because those are more qualitative in nature, are based on a very small group of people, and should not be used to make wider projections.
asc85 on September 27, 2008 at 9:01 AM
I don’t hear anybody in Media talking about how Barry couldn’t keep from interupting McCain time after time. I wanted to put my fist through the TV to shut that cocky arrogant SOB up and wipe that sh*t smiling grin off his face.
John Doe on September 27, 2008 at 9:01 AM
csdeven on September 27, 2008 at 8:49 AM
You are on target. Trust your own eyes and your own instincts. Rely upon the media for anything, and you have fallen into their trap. Separate facts from fiction! Don’t allow anyone to put make-up on bullshit and call it the truth. Our country is at the cross roads; historical times are upon us. We are watching “Socialism” take place right before our eyes.
Remember representative Waters comment to the oil execs “We will Socialize the oil industry.” Democrats (with the help of a few Republicans)are Socializing America right before our eyes. This is not a time to go soft, this is a time to fight for the future of Democracy. With Socialism goes our freedoms; think fairness doctrine. Socialize the open and free markets; Socialize the energy markets; Socialize the auto makers; Socialize the air travel industry… Far fetched, or is this what we are watching take place.
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 9:02 AM
csdeven:
Well some of the media were actually there and they might have had a different feeling if they were in the room or something.
But I think it is all about expectations. The media has set such a high bar for McCain and such a low bar for Obama that if Obama met their expectations he won.
I really did think that McCAin won, but then I thought that Obama was lying almost every time he opened his mouth. To hear him tell it, George Bush has been the only person in DC for the last years. No Congress, no Democrats, nobody..just the big bad Bush ruling like a despot without any checks and balances. That seemed too partisan to me.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Keemo:
I don’t think the Republicans are trying to socialize anything.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:04 AM
Ed,
Obama DID lie. And Obama is too stupid to independently differentiate between strategy and tactics, particularly when under fire.
And of course the MSM fail their calling to verify overnight fact from fiction. This morning’s posts reiterate Obama’s lies, ignoring Kissinger’s own repudiation, in order to give credence to their st-st-st-ssss-tuttering straw-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah m-m-m-m-m-man.
maverick muse on September 27, 2008 at 9:06 AM
Certain skin tones look different in different lighting conditions as perceived by the human eye and the camera. When a person’s complexion is very light, or very dark, you don’t often see a difference. But in mid tones, this happens from time to time.
As an example, the actress Lucy Liu has freckles on her face. And most of the time, you cant see them. But when you adjust the lighting, (lower it) then they are visible, because the difference is slight. (this page, last paragraph) When you raise the lighting, in film and in video, they disappear. Actually, they are there, but aren’t visible. And this example is just in a light tone.
Darker tones of mid skin color have the same adjustments to light, and the effect is more obvious when there is a strong back light. Point is, you don’t see much difference with John McCain’s face because he has a lighter complexion, but the difference is there, because there was the same lighting on that stage. You could measure it with a light meter.
For Barack’s mid skin tones, in bright daylight, he looks different from different studio lights and cameras used in video production.
wise_man on September 27, 2008 at 9:06 AM
the Far Left thinks like Ron Paul partly here, they beleive by us doing anything it “creates Enemies”. Only difference is Obama is calling for all out withdrawal and “non-intervenision” outloud like Paul and for political reasons they wouldn’t do al that anyway. But this is a Big contradiction and fallacy to point out.
jp on September 27, 2008 at 9:07 AM
asc:
Yes, but a lot of people look at Drudge. I think that might have some impact. I realize online polls are what they are, but still..drudge gets a lot of traffic from all sorts of people.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:08 AM
McCain looked darker too.
John Doe on September 27, 2008 at 9:09 AM
bottom line is Obama could never get elected President without a lap dog major media like he has. He never would’ve got nominated by DNC over HIllary if they just half-way did their job on vetting him.
jp on September 27, 2008 at 9:10 AM
jp:
This is true.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:12 AM
After reviewing dozens of on line “news” publications I am convinced that it is impossible for McCain to win this election. Except for some talk radio, the left owns both the electromagnetic spectrum and the print publishing business and their propaganda machine is relentless. If McCain would have literally bloodied Obama in the debate the media would have insisted that it was McCain’s blood on Obama. The fix is in for the left and it cannot be overcome. This great country as we once knew it is about to disappear . . . get ready for a Marxist/socialist government.
rplat on September 27, 2008 at 9:13 AM
Obama’s a multimillionaire who has made 4 million dollars over the past couple of years alone. His wife makes 300 grand a year for doing very little other than figuring out how to keep poor minorities from using the Emergency Room at the University of Chicago Hospital. The Obamas live in a mansion unlike anything that the vast majority of Americans could ever hope to live in, a mansion which was paid for with the help of a Chicago mobster.
Barack Obama is a socialist who’s been indoctrinated in Marxist ideology from a young age. He hangs out with unrepentant terrorists like Bill Ayers who’s only qualm about his terrorist days was that he didn’t kill more people and blow up more buildings. Obama supports killing infants born alive after failed abortions.
Barack Obama is so radical, and so far from traditional Christian values that it’s ridiculous. You couldn’t possibly be any further from American mainstream values than Barack Obama is.
eyedoc on September 27, 2008 at 9:13 AM
Funny that others are mentioning this, because right after the debate, I called my friend up to discuss the debate, and that was one of the first things I said to him! It was definitely noticeable to me. I’d like to think it’s nothing more sinister than wise_man’s post at 9:06AM, but it is something I noticed.
As for my thoughts on the debate, I am a McCain supporter, but I thought Obama won this debate…not by much, but I think he won. Certainly just about everyone on this site thinks that McCain won. And surprise of surprises, if you go onto Huffington Post, just about everyone thinks Obama won!
I read a post earlier…I think on this thread, where someone said that Fox is in the tank for Obama because they thought he won the debate. I mean, if Fox thinks Obama did better, I have to think they’re a little bit more objective. Fox in the tank for Obama is an absurd comment to make.
asc85 on September 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Keemo:
I don’t think the Republicans are trying to socialize anything.
Terrye on September 27, 2008 at 9:04 AM
I said “a few” Terrye… We still have a few on our side that need to be sent packing; surely you are aware of this.
Keemo on September 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Exactly. And all the democrats who are on record in favor of doing something about Saddam, calling him a threat, had to backpedal and try to spin their way out of this hypocrisy.
Unfortunately, it’s the left in this country who gets to frame the message as they please with a willing accomplice in the media. And people still to this day continue the lie that Bush knew about 9/11, that he lied about Iraq, and that this was an illegal war, when it was in fact a continuation of the 1991 cease fire, that resumed the conflict after Saddam continually failed to abide by the terms of the 1991 cease fire by not verifyably destroying his weapons as agreed upon.
wise_man on September 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Clarify-’stinking corpse’, ‘iran thinks israel will go on it’s own.
Even Jews in Israel understand the difference between zionism and jewish people-who can be christian even muslim.
It’s zionism like communism the ideology.Iran has said the way to defeat zionism is for the palestinian people to have
the chance of self-determination -by democracy.
My original statement is true.John mc cain has said over and over that the iranian president came to the u.n. in newyork and said ,he wanted to ‘wipe israel off the map’ .
Holocaust denial- again the spin you put on it,they are calling for research on numbers as a historic event,they are not denying it.In the U,S some want more investigations into 9/11 because they don’t believe what they have been told.Personally i don’t agree with any, but people have a right to imformation.
Iran says if the Holocaust happened as said ,well what has it got to do with the palestinians,they didn’t do it.So why has Israel been able to hold it against them.
Maybe ,why not get an iranian blogger to put their point’s over better then i could.
Or have an honest review of all information without pre-conditions
mags on September 27, 2008 at 9:15 AM
Holy Mother of GOD who the hell is this liar???
wise_man on September 27, 2008 at 9:16 AM
I have no problem if you want to talk about “impact.” But in terms of reliability and validity, I’ll stick with my earlier comments.
asc85 on September 27, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Racism, as ever, will always be the Left’s trump card, whether allowed in the poker game or not. Since Obama LOST the debate, the debate itself is not being covered. Divert attention to RACE; the topic never came up last night. Great coverage NOT.
Obama remains the hack that he has always been. Obama suffers from innate corruption as he CHOOSES to deceive rather than illuminate. His “schooling” by the elitists has not cured Obama of any intrinsic fault; rather, only veiled the character flaws and prepared the way for them to rule the man who obsesses for what he is incapable of performing. Obama is NOT a natural born leader. Obama is NOT a brilliant mind. Obama is NOT a tolerant person. Obama is NOT anything that he claims to be, though he is the very things he denies being. Obama is an incompetent and foolish little man, set up on a pedestal by socialist elitists who would force us to worship his every claim to fame though there be none. Obama is a hollow idol for fools to cherish.
maverick muse on September 27, 2008 at 9:19 AM
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