Bailout deal collapses, Democrats try to blame McCain
posted at 8:07 pm on September 25, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Down goes Frazier. I missed the report on Fox earlier but Ace says it sounds like the Dems are trying to shift the blame for it from the House GOP to Maverick. Fair or no? Let’s see. Dodd lands the first blow:
Republican presidential nominee John McCain was blamed for de-railing negotiations by blindsiding lawmakers with his support for an alternative plan.
The ‘very contentious’ meeting broke up after Republican leaders said they had to go back to their rank-and-file to discuss the new proposal…
After the hour-long White House meeting, [Dodd] said: ‘What has happened here is that we have spent seven straight days to find a rescue plan for the economy.
‘What this looked like was a rescue plan for John McCain. To be distracted for two to three hours by political theatre doesn’t help.’
Democrats said the Republicans were on board with the deal until Mr McCain intervened an injected presidential politics into the situation.
The only problem? According to Marc Ambinder, citing four independent sources, McCain didn’t say much of anything during the White House meeting let alone float any alternative plans. Boehner, apparently, brought up some of the House GOP’s ideas; the Dems claim they got the impression that McCain supported those ideas, but “they concede that he did not raise them directly.” Even Reid, ever sneering, admits McCain played no major role.
Which isn’t to say that he doesn’t, in fact, support the House GOP. Quoth The Hill from an article published earlier this afternoon:
[A] key Republican lawmaker stated that Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) wants to explore new ideas, like loaning money to financial institutions or insuring the companies, rather than buying their toxic debt…
Rep. Spencer Bachus (Ala.), the ranking Republican on the House Financial Services Committee, attended the meeting at which some say a deal was reached. But he later issued a statement saying he wasn’t authorized to negotiate or approve any deals for House Republicans…
He added that McCain is interested in using loans or insurance rather than having the government purchase the toxic debts of Wall Street institutions.
“We would prefer a loan or supplying insurance,” Bachus told reporters. “These are the ideas Sen. McCain tried to maximize. He feels strongly we have to design a program where taxpayers won’t lose.”
Bachus, wearing a “McCain-Palin” lapel pin, said he’d talked to McCain on Wednesday night and had breakfast with McCain’s advisers Wednesday morning.
The insurance angle is at the core of the House GOP’s alternative plan. See here for the particulars. In essence, they want to scrap a taxpayer bailout, expand the feds’ power to insure mortgage-backed securities, and lift regulations to encourage private investment and rescue the financial industry that way. As for McCain, it sounds like he’s being coy because he’s not sure yet which way to break on this politically. Better hurry up: If that Hill article I linked is correct, they’re nowhere near the 100 Republican votes Pelosi wants before she’ll send the bill to the Senate and the markets, shall we say, won’t like that. Exit question: If they can’t get a deal done to save the farking economy, will next week bring us Congress’s first ever zero percent approval rating?
Update: For what it’s worth, here’s what HuffPo’s sources are telling them about the meeting:
Towards the end, McCain finally spoke up, mentioning a counter-proposal that had been offered by some conservative House Republicans, which would suspend the capital gains tax for two years and provide tax incentives to encourage firms that buy up bad debt. McCain did not discuss specifics of the plan, though, and was non-committal about supporting it.
Paulson, however, argued directly against the conservative proposal. “He said that he did not think it would work,” according to the source. At another point in the meeting, President Bush chimed in, “If money isn’t loosened, this sucker could go down” — and by sucker he meant economy…
Following the meeting, Democrats stayed talking in the Roosevelt room and Paulson approached them. Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Barney Frank shot back at Paulson that the real problem was with House Republicans, according to sources. Paulson replied, “I know, I know,” as he got down on one knee to lighten the mood. Pelosi joked back, “I didn’t know you were a Catholic.”
Update: An astute point from Baseball Crank. In all the frenzy over McCain, you know whose name you haven’t heard much of at all as mattering to this deal? Barack Obama’s.
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I sure will be, but if Wise_man isn’t, I’m sure we’ll all adjust. LOL!
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 12:57 AM
Another capitalist who believes in his superiority to the knowledge of Warren Buffet?
bayam on September 26, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Buffet’s lining up at the trough. Why else would he back Obama? He thinks that if he makes nice-nice with the socialists, they’ll spare him and not carve up his fat old PR-savvy grandfatherly ass. What a motherless whore..
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 12:57 AM
What the hell; we’ll all be dead come Monday anyway. :)
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Floating Rock:
The market can not just correct if there is no money. Do you not understand that?
Terrye on September 26, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Darn skippy! Someone is doling out the lard for their toads and cronies, even in this dark hour.
Also, where is the language that would shutdown the whole stinking CRA/NINJA loan business? It is conspicuously missing!
electric-rascal on September 26, 2008 at 1:00 AM
Banks lend among themselves to meet regulatory requirements and meet their liquidity needs. Last week libor, the rate at which banks lend to one another, exploded, indicating banks had basically refused to lend to one another. The Fed cannot be lender of last resort ot every bank in the nation at once. This means that all banks are vulnerable to bank runs in this enviroment.
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 1:00 AM
What do you think a “correction” is?
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:01 AM
On Buffet….
Sorta like trusting Vanderbilt with looking out for western land rights while the UP and CP were rushing to meet up in Utah.
These men have two sides. One brings cash, the other a blackjack.
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:02 AM
During the Depression farmers were burning corn for fuel inspite of the fact that the cities were full of hungry people. Obviously there was a demand for the food, so why were the prices so low that farmers burned it for fuel.
There was no money.
Terrye on September 26, 2008 at 1:02 AM
I think I will take my chances in the arid wasteland, but good luck.
FeralCat on September 26, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Then cut taxes and create liquidity.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:03 AM
This is why they, along with your President and John McCain are urging action.
I’m hoping you meant to type “our” President, I would hate to think you’re one of those fools.
WaMu sold it’s assets, but in order to sell anything you have to have someone to buy. Chase has been gobbling stuff up for two weeks now, by the billions, and has said the new business model will not cause many layoffs or a decrease in their business.
What you call imminent destruction of the world as we know it, I call market correction. WaMu made bad decisions and is now done, Chase didn’t.
–FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair told reporters in a conference call:
“For all depositors and other customers of Washington Mutual Bank, this is simply a combination of two banks,” Bair said in a statement. “For bank customers, it will be a seamless transition. There will be no interruption in services and bank customers should expect business as usual come Friday morning.”
I have an opening in my camp though, if you like, just to hedge your bets. Can you operate a homemade flamethrower?
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Floating RocK:
What do you think a credit crisis is? It is not just a matter of letting house prices fall until more people can buy houses. Not if they can not get loans.
bed. i have to go to bed.
Terrye on September 26, 2008 at 1:04 AM
I think I will take my chances in the arid wasteland, but good luck.
FeralCat on September 26, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Aw hell, I have a soft spot for kitties…you can join, but no hairballs in my Yugo Interceptor.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Feral boy is looking at a nitro-moped. 32% interest at Bartertown. It’s hot!
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:07 AM
if you believe this country runs on accounts of 100k then i can’t help you.
anna on September 26, 2008 at 1:07 AM
Yes, my president too. Do you think Bush was just making it up when he told you about the crisis yesterday? Do you think John McCain is making it up when he stated that credit will dry up if nothing is done?
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 1:07 AM
What the hell; we’ll all be dead come Monday anyway. :)
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 12:59 AM
No, us survivors of the coming holocaust are setting up camp around an oil rig in a desert somewhere. You are welcome to join but should have some homemade chainmail or a good set of football pads.
A car with seats bolted to the roof and spikes protruding from both fenders would be ideal.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:08 AM
But I’m not in denial, you are. I’ve been waiting for this day for years now. It was inevitable. In fact, I still see some reckoning in the future when Jihadis nuke the first American city, or something, but that has not come to pass yet either, just like as of a few weeks ago the current “crisis” hadn’t come to pass yet either.
I’m way ahead of you. That’s why I’m not panicking. The future does not look bright unless we achieve a decent level of energy independence, destroy the jihad and allow the credit/real-estate bubble to burst and the markets to correct accordingly. We cannot cheat the future.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:09 AM
This is why I believe the Cantor-Hensarling-Ryan plan, the barebones, will go to this bi-partisan group, get bulked up enough without all the bailout crap that was in the Paulson plan, and things will be ready to go by 5PM EDT.
Sakaki on September 26, 2008 at 1:09 AM
During the Depression farmers were burning corn for fuel inspite of the fact that the cities were full of hungry people. Obviously there was a demand for the food, so why were the prices so low that farmers burned it for fuel.
There was no money.
Terrye on September 26, 2008 at 1:02 AM
So? We’re burning corn for fuel right now!
And it’s heavily subsidized.
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:10 AM
I say call thier bluff. I don’t need much to survive.
FeralCat on September 26, 2008 at 1:11 AM
What does this bill do? It transfers debt to ME. It piles it right on top of FICA and income tax witholdings.
Ah….a penny here, a dime there, the plebs will never notice.
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Terrye give it up with your convoluted tripe. No one said they– Paulson, Bernanke and Krauthammer were idiots. They are just wrong. Their bill being torn up should be enough to convince you of that by now. You know what that feels like. It happens.
But my point stands. I have been very nice these last several days reading yours and others comments about the end of the world. You were ready, as you have been in the past, to approve a bill before it was even written. Shrieking, grasping for a lifeline, panic in every word.
Then finally as the bill started to unravel you reach for the smear. That’s your MO and always has been. The vast right wing …..Paul Begala in drag as I have said.
Why don’t you spend sometime along with a host of others here and read why so many economists, ex fed governors and the like disagree with Paulson’s approach. While you still may not agree with them it might help you to understand why so many of these people prefer a free market solution to the liquidity crisis we are currently in. A crisis aided and abetted by Paulson, Greenspan and Bernanke. I won’t even waste ink on the politicos involved. Yes these brillant lights are now writing the bill.
Krauthammer, I love the guy sometimes. He adopted my approach to immigration, a complete reversal I might add on his part. But he’s not infallible–he didn’t like the Palin pick which several us championed back in April.
patrick neid on September 26, 2008 at 1:14 AM
Here’s the question of the night.
Are the Democrats invested in defeating McCain to the point that they’d allow a full fledged crash of the market so they could blame it on him or will they draw the line at simply whinging that he was making things tough on the negotiations?
If he presented a viable alternative to this boondoggle, would they take it or would they reject it and ruin the economy to help Obama?
How far will they go?
powerpro on September 26, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Anyone……a call to ANYONE…
Please post a link to a government property surplus sale where Uncle Sugar is making a profit on the item sold.
Hello?
Hello?
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Yes, my president too. Do you think Bush was just making it up when he told you about the crisis yesterday? Do you think John McCain is making it up when he stated that credit will dry up if nothing is done?
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 1:07 AM
I think that there is one line here, and the line seems to consist of a massive bailout which may or may not produce the desired results and seem to have very few safeguards that it won’t happen again, here or anywhere else in the system.
Rushing into a 700 billion, taxpayer-funded bailout is folly; hammering out the details and making sure the porky aholes who are larding it up even more are ejected is important to me as a taxpayer.
But hey, feel free to strap your belongings to the roof of your Model T and head out for Arkansas.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Ok, seriously… you need to take a rather large dose of Nyquil PM and go to bed. I’ve taken the time to read through this entire thread and either you’re having a nervous breakdown or you’re actively campaigning for your 15 minutes of fame as the lead lemming to go over the cliff.
We conservatives know there is a crisis… it’s called corrupt leadership. Every time some Democrat comes at us with their latest pet project and demands to get funding their way or there will be H*LL to pay… well…
You and unseen and many others just sound a whole lot like the Democrats. “YOU HAVE TO DO THE DEAL, OUR DEAL, 700 BILLION. SHUT UP. YOU’RE IDIOTS.”
Sorry, I’m more than willing to take a look at some alternatives. I’m even willing to go for a hybrid approach of some bailout with legislation/regulation changes. Just like with the energy plans… I’d like to do many of the proposals… drill, more nuclear, even some alternative research.
But this whole “MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY”… go take it somewhere else.
Sounds a whole lot like when the boy cried wolf. There may be a wolf. And we may even get chewed up a little. But you’re losing cred here sounding this way.
And for the record… your statement earlier that the Chairman of the Fed knows a lot more than MM… I don’t think so. I’ve seen him on vid several times downplaying the concerns over the last few years. So no… I think he should be fired, and someone else lead this with LOTS of accountability and oversight.
Now I’m going to bed. I’ve wasted too much time reading self-important comments from people delighting in panicking others. If you really cared where our country was going, you’d be at least willing to look at alternatives and pick the best from all the proposals. Good night and God bless.
dominigan on September 26, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Under this plan you could make a profit. Under the depression we all lose immensely. The economy and tax receipts aren’t static, as supply siders have been telling people for years. Opportunity costs must be considered. It betrays an immense ignorance of economics to ignore them.
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 1:16 AM
What the hell; we’ll all be dead come Monday anyway. :)
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 12:59 AM
Well, I gassed up my Hummer and checked the tires, bought fifty boxes of Kraft’s Macaroni and Cheese (the newest Dow component!), picked up forty boxes of .30-06 cartridges, got my shortwave radio repaired and dusted off my pink Y2K Hello Kitty binoculars.
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:16 AM
I’m not sure how many people are aware of this, but I’ll break the news to you all now.
THE MSM IS A JOKE.
Pirates manipulate news stories to make money in the market.
It’s very easy to float stories and cash in and they are doing it in an organized manner.
Oh and about the oil crisis….one of the major reasons we have seen ridiculous gas prices is because speculators manipulate the media and make BOATLOADS of money with options both long and short…..especially FOTM options.
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:16 AM
Do you think John McCain is making it up when he stated that credit will dry up if nothing is done?
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 1:07 AM
Is that the same John McCain who was pushing multi-trillion dollar Carbon Credits seven weeks ago? Weren’t we “all going to die!!!!!!” back then?
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:19 AM
What a crock. I’m in the fuel distribution business. We pay what the market rate is and we adjust according to the market rate. There is a fuel crunch in North Texas. My company is scrambling to fill trucks from non-allocated sources and guess what? The price of fuel went DOWN. Why? because the HONEST business practices. The refineries were paying less, charged us less, we charged the stations less and they charged the customer less. THAT is how it works.
Except in Washington, DC, that is.
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:21 AM
I need to get the book, “How To Build a House from Peat In Ten Easy Steps”, that way when the end comes, I will still have shelter for my shivering, destitute family.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:22 AM
Your words, not mine.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:23 AM
Hey guys? When I come to join you in Hooverville? I’m a very funky chicken. Funky as in salmonella, got it? I’m looking at you, FeralCat.
funky chicken on September 26, 2008 at 1:23 AM
None of this should be a surprise.
The writing on the wall was obvious enough that even a economic novice like me could follow the trail behind the spin to the actual data way back last summer.
It will be bad because no one knows how much leverage there actually is.
$1 was loaned. The ‘asset’ loan was triple-Aed and leveraged into $20, which then flowed back as more loans, then triple-Aed and leveraged again into $100. That’s what these huge leverage ratios mean.
It’s a reverse pyramid of cards, and no one knows how high it was built.
Whatever else, we are in for the Chinese version of interesting times.
I can only hope that we emerge with a cleaner more honest gov’t. If this were Rome, I would be suggesting we mail a sword to each incumbent politician of either party remotely connected to this crisis.
Then again, maybe not, suicide is painless.
olddeadmeat on September 26, 2008 at 1:24 AM
I need to get the book, “How To Build a House from Peat In Ten Easy Steps”, that way when the end comes, I will still have shelter for my shivering, destitute family.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:22 AM
Just don’t light a match in a house made of peat. You’ll all be cooked like pigs in a luau.
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:24 AM
there are people who have made houses with old tires, and with hay bales or something. supposedly very energy efficient.
good night :-)
funky chicken on September 26, 2008 at 1:25 AM
Is that the same John McCain who was pushing multi-trillion dollar Carbon Credits seven weeks ago? Weren’t we “all going to die!!!!!!” back then?
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:19 AM
Holy Toledo, you just hit on something! If we are all reduced to living in the stone age by next week, there will no longer be pollutants clogging up the atmosphere and slaughtering polar bears.
Obambo was right, the oceans will recede and the air will become cleaner…and all it will take is living like Neanderthals.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:26 AM
To quote the great Ben Franklin:
“When fools make feasts, wise men eat them.”
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:26 AM
anna, whatever made you think I need your help? Seems to me you are the one wringing your hands. Whatever happens, I’ll be fine. You, maybe, not so much.
Goodnight and good luck.
NightmareOnKStreet on September 26, 2008 at 1:27 AM
bedtime for bonzo….
patrick neid on September 26, 2008 at 1:28 AM
Exactly.
The price of fuel went down because the priates bought far off the money shorts when oil was $140.
They made a lot of money and the sheep who listened to the news and their “advoce” paid for it.
Basically whenever the pundits start saying something is a great buy…short it and you’ll make money.
Of course you probably think it was a coincidence that Cramer said BUY BEAR STEARNS the day before it went under right?
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:28 AM
Anyone have thoughts on my question?
Are the Democrats invested in defeating McCain to the point that they’d allow a full fledged crash of the market so they could blame it on him or will they draw the line at simply whinging that he was making things tough on the negotiations?
If he presented a viable alternative to this boondoggle, would they take it or would they reject it and ruin the economy to help Obama?
How far will they go?
powerpro on September 26, 2008 at 1:28 AM
Neil Cavuto was on with Shep on Fox and essentially said, yeah, it’s bad but the sky is not falling. The suffering companies are already getting bought up at bargain basement prices and the market is righting itself. A Fed plan can only do the same thing that the market is doing on it’s own- by up the cheap crap and turn it over as fast as possible. Worst case scenario- if nothing is done, Average Joe will have a hard time getting credit, companies will hold tight on money and crap companies will go under.
In other words- Capitalism 101. It ain’t pretty but it works. If you want proof, go to your grocery store, local Walmart or shopping mall. Sales suck, but it is a LONG way from zero.
Personally, I don’t think that a true “Great Depression” is really possible anymore. Long, nasty recessions that have a short term impact on the low end of the totem pole and long lasting ripple effects are possible; but those can be managed and the effects minimized. In other words, we’ll survive regardless of what happens and good decisions coupled with decisive, appropriate action can cause this to be little more than an ugly blip with a reasonably large mess to clean up.
The doom and gloom talk had been getting to me until I saw Cavuto expound profound logic and reason on the matter, followed by Newt bitchslapping Skeletor some more on H&C while explaining the fundamentals of the Republican plan. Then I watched McCain’s speech at the Clinton Club from this afternoon and got all my confidence back. Then I watched Bambi’s speech and it all became crystal clear.
We have one very real, very serious problem: the Democratic Party. They are doing everything they can to pass whatever POS bill is on the table to say that they did something. The markets will react positively and buy them their talking points for the election… then all hell will break loose. We will be 400 billion in debt, without an energy plan and winter will launch fuel through the roof just in time for Bambi to put his hand on the Koran and start singing the Oath of Office like a Muslim call to prayer. Reid, Pelosi, et al will hit the Capital and tax and ban everything remotely productive under the sun and Bambi will rubber stamp it while the world collapses around our ears. Meanwhile, the rest of the world (especially the parts that hate us) will laugh with glee and they bend Bambi over and have their way with him.
Anyone who wants to call me wrong will need to cite at least 1 verifiable instance where Bambi has demonstrated anything that could be remotely referred to as true leadership and at least one plan that he has offered at any point in his life that has not been an abysmal failure and he’s later spun his way out of.
We have one mission- keep Bambi out of the White House and get him into his long overdue prison cell.
Damiano on September 26, 2008 at 1:31 AM
Of course you probably think it was a coincidence that Cramer said BUY BEAR STEARNS the day before it went under right?
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:28 AM
You obviously do not live in Cramerica!
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:31 AM
How far will they go?
powerpro on September 26, 2008 at 1:28 AM
Down to the limbo level..
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Bwahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!
There are no honest markets! Just greed! No brokers, just speculators! Remember that when you drop $20 in Mordecai Jones offering plate.
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:33 AM
Absolutely!
You can’t bring on the New World Order unless you destroy our currency enough so that when you suggest a new currency combining Mexico and Canada and US (and eventually global currency) the people will think it’s a great idea!
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:33 AM
It’s heartening that there are only three or four people here arguing that we should make a grab for the first bailout that anybody will throw our way, regardless of whether or not it’s an anchor.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:34 AM
Ok, I guess I’m off to the sack also, fully expecting to wake-up to a world gone mad; rioting, social collapse, murder mayhem and slaughter over a few cans of Chef Boyardee and an old pair of boots.
Signing off now. Good luck everyone and God be with us all.
Bishop on September 26, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Bwahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!
There are no honest markets! Just greed! No brokers, just speculators!
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:33 AM
Bill O’Reilly! That whole Irish Limerick thing gave you away..
But didn’t you have an aneurysm this afternoon?
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:36 AM
I didn’t say that,you did.
Ok, so you don’t think it’s possible to manipulate the media?
How do you explain how Barack Hussein Obama has more than 8% of the country’s support?
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Well, off to bed to sleep the sleep of the just…
TexasJew on September 26, 2008 at 1:38 AM
Darwin forbid! Bill O??????? OMG, I’ve been Palined!
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:38 AM
I’m really glad everyone here has there “ideological purity.” That will really make the next great depression fun guys. Let it burn! Death to America! Evil McCain and Bush are lying to you all. And Ben Bernanke, he’s obviously part of zionist conspiracy to defraud the little guy. Only Michelle knows the truth! That whole economics thing is just a lie developed by elitsts to rob the folks.
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 1:39 AM
I guess it was kind of redundant to ask you if you thought people could manipulate the media then…
Tell me something Bill…how much did Obama pay you for you to start spinning for him like you have since the interview?
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:40 AM
A nickle-ninety five.
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:41 AM
That was the best comment that I’ve read of your yet.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:42 AM
keep quoting olby turd. your understanding of the economic crisis is almost as astute as his.
i’ll be more than fine. but i have employees who i’d also like to make sure are fine.
anna on September 26, 2008 at 1:42 AM
FWTW….we recently closed a business (August). 11 out in the wilderness. I’m a corporate Joe now. Funny thing is there is no volcano and no Meg Ryan to provide a happy ending.
It wasn’t the Gov’ment, or Wall Street, or Buffet who sent them looking or work, it was me. Bad choices, learning curve. I take full responsibility that they are at Parkland seeking your tax dollars.
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:45 AM
Yes, we do need Government intervention in the credit market right now in a big way.
No, we do not need to take the first crappy, pork filled, corrupt deal that comes to the table.
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:47 AM
Bayam,
Warren Bufffet is a scumbag, leftist Obama supporter, just so you know.
He wants socialism because it keeps the sheep dumb…he doesn’t want competition.
IF he is a genius, he’s more along the lines of Dr. Evil or George Soros, or the vilain in Bond movies..
SaintOlaf on September 26, 2008 at 1:50 AM
The Democrats are trying to milk this for all the political advantage they can. McCain has to call them on it in the debate today.
indythinker on September 26, 2008 at 1:52 AM
limerick, that sucks. how’s life as a corp joe?
anna on September 26, 2008 at 1:54 AM
Limerick
Businesses fail all the time. Sometimes it’s the learning curve, sometimes it just the way things go. Know two friends who lost businesses and had to start over, and another one who made a successful dotcom, sold it for stock and during the crash watched his stock turn back into paper. Millions to pennies.
He did come back. Nothing to say you can’t at some point too.
So will our nation, regardless of how badly gov’t screws up.
olddeadmeat on September 26, 2008 at 1:55 AM
the third world of your post sums it up well.
That’s OK. I’ve got ideas! (oh no here we go again)
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:55 AM
word
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:56 AM
New account of what happened at the meeting:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13918.html
I don’t buy it.
If McCain had been as passive as this report suggests, they wouldn’t have had the opening to scream that he had screwed up their plans for the bailout.
This, and the fact that I remember hearing from another source that McCain was the one who pushed for alternative ideas to the bailout suggests this is a lot of spin to make Obama look good at McCain’s expense.
powerpro on September 26, 2008 at 1:57 AM
Nite all,
I might be a cranky old bas**** but at least my wife says she will remember of me fondly. ;)
Limerick on September 26, 2008 at 1:57 AM
In this case it’s a bubble that needs to be burst. The impact of which can be mitigated through free-market solutions, whereas socialism can only delay and magnify the inevitable.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 1:58 AM
It’s better not to trust Anything from Politico, their credibility is less and 0.
Chakra Hammer on September 26, 2008 at 2:03 AM
Wamu becomes the biggest bank in US history to fail.
ideological purity, catch the fevah!
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 2:03 AM
I can do better: I have a Dillon 550b and a cache of reloading components.
Truthfully, my cache is pretty small right now.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 2:03 AM
Hadn’t seen this wrinkle here yet, so here ya go:
Lindsey Grahamnesty Drops an A-Bomb- ACORN to get funding from Bail Out
If ACORN gets a dime out of this deal, I will be leaving a very bloody trail of ACORN reps all the way to the Capitol Building before going to work on elected officials.
Start emailing/ dialing folks- Say no to the bail out of ACORN
Write your Rep
Write your Senators
Damiano on September 26, 2008 at 2:05 AM
But remember to be entirely indifferent to the fate of the US economy. Or else you might be helping an elitist.
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 2:09 AM
And said elitist might live in a city.
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 2:11 AM
And be Mexican.
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 2:11 AM
^ 666 post. (freaky music).
Cardiganfox on September 26, 2008 at 2:29 AM
Socialism and Marxism are ideologies as well, remember.
FloatingRock on September 26, 2008 at 2:41 AM
Feel Sorry for me. My ONLY news source this week is CNN. I had no idea that network had gone so far off the cliff. According to them, McCain was a mute idiot at this meeting, Sarah Palin is a national joke and totally incompetent, and Barack Obama is saving the day on this one.
ACK!!!!!!!!!!! And at 40 cents a minute for cruise ISP hookup, it is hard to find the REAL TRUTH to what is going on. I am writing to Holland America when I get home and tell them they really need Fox News on their tv lineup to balance this horrible Obama spin machine called CNN.
They actually had a huffington post person on there for barack credibility /banging my head against my state room desk here
Sigh
karenhasfreedom on September 26, 2008 at 2:49 AM
It could be WORSE, Obama could win, then you could get the Liberal Media to lie to you everyday and cover up and NOT report all of his corrupt business and and of his failures.
Chakra Hammer on September 26, 2008 at 3:12 AM
It could be WORSE, Obama could win, then you could get the Liberal Media to LIE to you everyday and cover up for him and NOT report any bads news of his corrupt business dealings or any of his failures.
For 4 more years, Obama is a “RocK Star” OMG..
Chakra Hammer on September 26, 2008 at 3:14 AM
So – as long as this mess was confined mostly to Wall Street big names like Lehman and AIG, most of America doesn;t care and probably opposes the Paulson Plan. With the failure of WaMu today, I can tell you this is going to get BAD. Bank runs and all. Government action WILL be taken.
You have a choice – we either buy these depressed assets low, revalue them and hold onto them until they are performing, restructure them where we can, and sell them HIGH; or we grasp at ideologically puritanical straws, the market collapses, and Obama and his Democratically controlled House and Senate will TAKE ACTION. And I mean that in the scariest way possible.
Up to you, I’ve got plenty of guns and ammo.
flashoverride on September 26, 2008 at 3:16 AM
Perhaps it is not how much WE suffer, but how much suffering we leave our progeny. Do we trade liberty to mitigate our own suffering or do we as Americans have the resolve to pay our debts? Socialism might be a short term fix but deep inside we know that we stayed too long at the party and now we must deal with the hangover. We can do it. We must not leave our progeny without recourse. Without the Liberty that we grew up in. Remember when we rode our bikes without body armor? We could ride with abandon without fear of the constabulary. Why do we deny our own children the right to grow as we did? Generations before us have accepted their dues owed to Liberty and understood that they had a price to pay. We must pay ours. I believe in America and Americans. We will only prevail if we fearlessly face our responsibilities head on and accept the price of Freedom. Bequeathing to our future the same freedoms we enjoyed at one time. This is the time for all Americans to stand on principal and idealism. It is in hard times that character is born and the measure of a person is demonstrated. How will history judge us? I leave it to you.
ronsfi on September 26, 2008 at 3:18 AM
Exactly. Now why can’t we convince everyone else?
phronesis on September 26, 2008 at 3:19 AM
http://silentrunning.tv/?p=3209
The plan is already in the works. It’s actually ready to go to the bipartisan crew to look over and develop. Watch, and by 5PM EDT, they’ll be ready to put it on the floors of the House and Senate.
Sakaki on September 26, 2008 at 3:25 AM
Sakaki, got a source?
Cardiganfox on September 26, 2008 at 3:28 AM
If it’s a knock-down drag out fight, the Republicans must advance quickly the record of blame alongside their solution. Playing Mr.Nice Guy will only get the snot beat out of you in a brawl.
Reid has no authority to tell McCain NOT to come to Congress. Reid has no authority to pick and choose which elected officials may gather with him and which are banned. The entire premise of telling McCain where McCain can go is not Reid’s or anyone’s but McCain’s.
Obama the Negate represents the Democrat Party that legislated the recipe and augmented its proportions and removed all barriers and dismissed all safeguards and flaunted absolute corruption. ‘Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a breeze.’
The Democrats have no ground to make any demands here. Their bad character is no surprise; and the press is guilty for promoting everything that brought this disaster.
Conservatives unite. Be the force that withstands the onslaught. Punitive damages are entirely appropriate. Charge Obama. He’s afraid and his obstinacy is his self defense mechanism. Ram him with his record with no relief.
Bush’s idea of another layer ON TOP the current bureaucracy is so predictably and awfully Bush. He suggests it in order to deflect blame from his man/men. If it’s broke, fix it RIGHT. Unless this is the public campaign prior to catastrophe that should allow time to realign AWAY from socialism, our Treasury Secretary and our Federal Reserve Board failed. Fire. Hire.
If you can’t muster to do what is right when everything matters, why presume that you will later down the road?
This isn’t 9/11 and we’re not fighting the Islamofascist terrorists. This is 2008 and we are fighting the American Progressive Democrat Party has brought us the ruin of socialist economy.
Shock and Awe!!! VOTE THEM INTO THE MINORITY, AMERICA.
maverick muse on September 26, 2008 at 3:34 AM
Okay – GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD PEOPLE.
YOU IDEOLOGICAL PURITY IS GOING TO GET OBAMA ELECTED.
Obama will bring REAL, good old fashioned socialism. You know – with quotas, camps, and everything.
Either the Fed and the Treasury act in a private market fashion – you know, buying low and selling high – and put a bottom on this nonsense, or it all comes crashing down. Stop with this for our children’s future CRAP. If Obama gets elected, you can kiss all that sh*t goodbye. The last great Depression got us Social Security and all the FDR new deal socialism, you want to repeat?
WE’VE BEEN HERE BEFORE. LET’S NOT REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES.
This is a liquidity crisis. The do what it takes for now in a reasoned, measured way, and get this thing rolling again. F’ING A WITH YOU PEOPLE.
flashoverride on September 26, 2008 at 3:54 AM
Why not stop payments to the U.N. and add that money to the markets, eh?
SouthernGent on September 26, 2008 at 4:18 AM
I her ya’, flash.
Blake on September 26, 2008 at 4:57 AM
flashoverride.. hmmm..
maybe you are over ridden with fear..
Use logic instead of emotion, get the best deal that you can, don’t sign something that will make the situation worse in the long run and something that will never be undone, once the government controls something, it has it and never lets go, you know that.
Chakra Hammer on September 26, 2008 at 5:08 AM
Are the Democrats invested in defeating McCain to the point that they’d allow a full fledged crash of the market so they could blame it on him or will they draw the line at simply whinging that he was making things tough on the negotiations?
Yes.
If he presented a viable alternative to this boondoggle, would they take it or would they reject it and ruin the economy to help Obama?
All they care about is getting Obama “elected”.
How far will they go?
The goal of the Democratic party is the destruction of this country by any means possible.
Nahanni on September 26, 2008 at 5:22 AM
Gee Chakra, really? I have to call BS on that. RTC? Mexican bailout? Maybe not the best answers in the world, but they forestalled much greater crises.
Your logic is that all of these, you know, investment firms and the largest holders of private debt in the world (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) going insolvent isn’t a crisis. I guess WaMu is just a hiccup then?
Bear Sterns
Lehman Brothers
AIG
Fannie Mae
Freddie Mac
WaMu
How much more does it take to be a crisis, Chakra? Burn it all down? F*ck everyone’s 401k? F*ck short term commercial paper that real companies use to pay real salaries to real people? Caterpillar borrowed $1.3 BILLION at 7%. A week ago they could get it at 3.5% 3.5% of $1.3 Bln is $45.5 million. THAT PAYS A LOT OF SALARIES, and now it’s gone from Caterpillar. Why? Lack of confidence in the market.
If the market crashes, you better start learning your Marx.
flashoverride on September 26, 2008 at 5:33 AM
If true, GOOD. The alternate plan is BETTER. The democrats are responsible for this mess in the first place.
dogsoldier on September 26, 2008 at 5:59 AM
I still think the proper direction to take is to force the lenders to write mortgages that the homeowners have a reasonable change of paying. Even if a bank loses 90% of the potential profit from the mortgage this way it is still better than losing it all.
When a mortgage is paid off, even a fixed rate mortgage, the homeowner will typically pay from two to four times the actual value of the home. So even if they had to finance a 35% loss on the value of the home, they would still make a profit if the note is actually payed off.
So you do it this way:
Require conversion of all current adjustable rate mortgages to a fixed mortgage of 5% interest. The amount of the mortgage is reduced to the CURRENT value of the home, or the amount owed, whichever is lower.
Place a provision in the mortgage that if the house is sold the mortgage has to be assumed by the new buyer. This ensures that the bank will get their money from the note over the long term. Any amount received by the homeowner over the amount owed on the mortgage must be used to offset the write-down of the original mortgage. In other words, any extra will go to the bank to pay back the Feds for the loan they will receive, up to the amount written down off the original mortgage.
The government allows the lender to borrow the amount of cash that they reduced the principle of the mortgage at zero percent interest. This keeps the lenders cash flow good and allows them to have ready assets to write new mortgages. It also greatly reduces the amount of cash the government has to put out as well.
Outlaw adjustable rate mortgages. Require that all house notes are written so that the house payment (to the bank) will remain consistent for the term of the mortgage. Of course property taxes and other costs put in escrow with the payment could still change.
Do not allow mortgages to be sold. If you write it then you own it. That will cause lenders to be more responsible in writing future mortgages.
If the government wishes to offer mortgages to low income families in order to do social engineering then do it strictly with government money and the FHA. That way the politicians can be held responsible for the program and how they are using our tax money.
Clear the books on the FMs and close them. Leave the government out of the private banking business.
I really feel these steps would resolve the problem with a minimum of taxpayer money and limit the liability for future foreclosures. It will also keep the banks private instead of a big government takeover.
Hawthorne on September 26, 2008 at 6:08 AM
I heard that Barney Frank lost his cool. Does that mean he is unfit to serve?
ctmom on September 26, 2008 at 7:05 AM
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