Bailout deal collapses, Democrats try to blame McCain
posted at 8:07 pm on September 25, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Down goes Frazier. I missed the report on Fox earlier but Ace says it sounds like the Dems are trying to shift the blame for it from the House GOP to Maverick. Fair or no? Let’s see. Dodd lands the first blow:
Republican presidential nominee John McCain was blamed for de-railing negotiations by blindsiding lawmakers with his support for an alternative plan.
The ‘very contentious’ meeting broke up after Republican leaders said they had to go back to their rank-and-file to discuss the new proposal…
After the hour-long White House meeting, [Dodd] said: ‘What has happened here is that we have spent seven straight days to find a rescue plan for the economy.
‘What this looked like was a rescue plan for John McCain. To be distracted for two to three hours by political theatre doesn’t help.’
Democrats said the Republicans were on board with the deal until Mr McCain intervened an injected presidential politics into the situation.
The only problem? According to Marc Ambinder, citing four independent sources, McCain didn’t say much of anything during the White House meeting let alone float any alternative plans. Boehner, apparently, brought up some of the House GOP’s ideas; the Dems claim they got the impression that McCain supported those ideas, but “they concede that he did not raise them directly.” Even Reid, ever sneering, admits McCain played no major role.
Which isn’t to say that he doesn’t, in fact, support the House GOP. Quoth The Hill from an article published earlier this afternoon:
[A] key Republican lawmaker stated that Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) wants to explore new ideas, like loaning money to financial institutions or insuring the companies, rather than buying their toxic debt…
Rep. Spencer Bachus (Ala.), the ranking Republican on the House Financial Services Committee, attended the meeting at which some say a deal was reached. But he later issued a statement saying he wasn’t authorized to negotiate or approve any deals for House Republicans…
He added that McCain is interested in using loans or insurance rather than having the government purchase the toxic debts of Wall Street institutions.
“We would prefer a loan or supplying insurance,” Bachus told reporters. “These are the ideas Sen. McCain tried to maximize. He feels strongly we have to design a program where taxpayers won’t lose.”
Bachus, wearing a “McCain-Palin” lapel pin, said he’d talked to McCain on Wednesday night and had breakfast with McCain’s advisers Wednesday morning.
The insurance angle is at the core of the House GOP’s alternative plan. See here for the particulars. In essence, they want to scrap a taxpayer bailout, expand the feds’ power to insure mortgage-backed securities, and lift regulations to encourage private investment and rescue the financial industry that way. As for McCain, it sounds like he’s being coy because he’s not sure yet which way to break on this politically. Better hurry up: If that Hill article I linked is correct, they’re nowhere near the 100 Republican votes Pelosi wants before she’ll send the bill to the Senate and the markets, shall we say, won’t like that. Exit question: If they can’t get a deal done to save the farking economy, will next week bring us Congress’s first ever zero percent approval rating?
Update: For what it’s worth, here’s what HuffPo’s sources are telling them about the meeting:
Towards the end, McCain finally spoke up, mentioning a counter-proposal that had been offered by some conservative House Republicans, which would suspend the capital gains tax for two years and provide tax incentives to encourage firms that buy up bad debt. McCain did not discuss specifics of the plan, though, and was non-committal about supporting it.
Paulson, however, argued directly against the conservative proposal. “He said that he did not think it would work,” according to the source. At another point in the meeting, President Bush chimed in, “If money isn’t loosened, this sucker could go down” — and by sucker he meant economy…
Following the meeting, Democrats stayed talking in the Roosevelt room and Paulson approached them. Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Barney Frank shot back at Paulson that the real problem was with House Republicans, according to sources. Paulson replied, “I know, I know,” as he got down on one knee to lighten the mood. Pelosi joked back, “I didn’t know you were a Catholic.”
Update: An astute point from Baseball Crank. In all the frenzy over McCain, you know whose name you haven’t heard much of at all as mattering to this deal? Barack Obama’s.
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Weight of Glory on September 25, 2008 at 10:56 PM
agreed questions need to be asked. but the knee jerk “no bailout” crowd is just as wrong. I want a clean bill, the rep plan is good, newts is good, paulsons would have been ok in the long run i think. The dem plan is just terrible but it would still be better IMO than doing nothing.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:00 PM
BTW, where are our local foul trolls now that the writing is on the wall for Obama’s crash and burn?
It looks like he’s gonna lose that bet and we get a two week break from that sack of crap troll.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:01 PM
WHOA the tax payers are bailing out ACORN?
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Oh, give it up. So you and your pals at ACORN won’t get 20%—deal with it. :P
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM
I worry not for the people who have gambled instead of put their money into smart savings, or overstretched their accounts. Why should I worry about things I have no control over?
This is why I am able to stay as I am without worry, because I know where my savings are. They aren’t in any savings account, or money market fund.
Sakaki on September 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Eureka -
W, you magnificent bastard!
Wind Rider on September 25, 2008 at 11:03 PM
unseen:
Yeah, that hurricane thing just sort of popped into my head.
I think people think it is all some campaign stunt.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:03 PM
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 10:57 PM
Already got most of that. good tip on small bills. guess I should start practicing shooting again been awhile since a brought down a buck.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:04 PM
I didn’t think I could have any more disgust for democrats until I heard that they were funding ACORN with this bailout.
I really am surprised at the depths my distaste for crooked politicians has reached.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:04 PM
Sakaki:
You don’t know what you are talking about.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:04 PM
No Funding for ACORN!
They are Corrupt!
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM
This is unreal.
Washington Mutual just failed. On the upside, no more stupid Whoo-hoo commercials…but maybe the liberals should consider taking this a little more seriously.
Trying to use this crisis as a way to sneak in oil drilling bans & huge payouts to their corrupt friends at ACORN is not a demonstration of good faith. Even by their low standards.
If people start paying attention The One and his ilk will be in serious trouble.
Dorvillian on September 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM
The easiest way to explain why this is a real problem is the analogy of a car.
Essentially our real economy is fine. The engine is working well, and we even have plenty of fuel.
The problem is that the financial institutions are like the fuel lines that make sure the fuel gets where it needs to go. If the financial system breaks down it’s like the fuel lines got cut.
Even if the government does nothing, the financial system will recover. The question is can the real economy endure long enough with the disruption of the flow of money, and still be undamaged by the time the financial system has self-healed.
Hmm… maybe I should have compared the financial system to the lines carrying oil to the engine instead. How long can we go without oil before a piston freezes. That’s why people are scared.
Personally I don’t think it’s as bad as the doom and gloomers are saying, but it’s certainly not rosy, and I’m not willing to bet our economy on the hope that it won’t be that bad.
Sackett on September 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Without a closer look, my impression is that ACORN doesn’t need a “bail out” – they would be big time beneficiaries if the deal became profitable for the government, as some expect.
I don’t pretend to have a firm grasp on this mess, but that’s how I read it. I welcome correction from anyone who believes I’m in error.
capitalist piglet on September 25, 2008 at 11:06 PM
By all means Terrye, we should protect our assets. I am far from an expert in economics. But I believe there are brilliant people in this country who can find a solution to our crisis, and use the resources of the government if necessary, without sacrificing our Constitution.
blue sky on September 25, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Yep. Remember to cut your shrubs and trees back. You need a good killing field of fire to achieve maximum effect. lol
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:07 PM
This is not just about people who did not pay their bills or whatever. And the whole economy benefited from that housing boom. That is why no one stopped the whole thing.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:07 PM
Yeah, that hurricane thing just sort of popped into my head.
I think people think it is all some campaign stunt.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:03 PM
But is the same mentality here. They don’t think the storm is going to hit and if it does they think it will be a small storm and when it does hit those saying no bailout will be the first screaming for a helicopter from their roofs.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:07 PM
I need to get some sleep..
damn commies trying to take over my country, i need to settle down.
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
May I ask a question?
Democrats do control the House right?
Why do they even need House Republicans? Why aren’t the reporters asking the Democrats that huh?
I love how the even when they are a minority the House Republicans are still able to control the entire government.
Me thinks Gingrich really traumatized the Dems ehh? They just can’t seem to understand that they are in control now, and are therefor the ones responsible for what the House does.
Sackett on September 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
What if it’s a guy who’s been convicted of looting homes that have been evacuated after hurricane warnings?
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
bluesky:
Oh please, for one thing the Constitution is not being sacrificed. And for another if there are such people maybe they should step up.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
I really am surprised at the depths my distaste for crooked politicians has reached.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:04 PM
yes that changed my mind to a large degree. i’m glad McCain came back notice it was Graham (i.e McCain0 that pointed this out. Thanks again McCain for putting country first.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:11 PM
I’m not a leftist. I’ve been posting here for quite some time. I have given the reasons for my concerns and a number of commenters agree with me. But yes, I think Ben Bernanke has a better understanding of the economy than Michelle Malkin. I guess that makes me one of those evil “elitists”. I think I do too, as I have been a student of the economy for quite some time and I manage money and do securities analysis for a living. And I’m not going to sit by and let people use their rigid dogmatic views to drive this country into a depression without calling them on it.
phronesis on September 25, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Saclett:
They may control the House and the Senate but they do not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. When Bush vetoed the farm bill enough Republicans crossed over to over ride the veto otherwise the Democrats could not have pulled it off, their majority is not that large. For some things they still need both parties.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:11 PM
How many states have had to take legal action against ACORN at this point, for voter fraud? If the friggin’ media would do its job, people might actually have a problem with this, and with Obama’s background in the organization.
SO FRUSTRATING.
capitalist piglet on September 25, 2008 at 11:11 PM
I agree. Unseen is definitely not an Obama supporter.
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:11 PM
Drown him before you evacuate. :|
Patrick S on September 25, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Sackett on September 25, 2008 at 11:08 PM
because if it doesn’t work they will be blamed. They want cover before the elections.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:13 PM
You’d think the RICO statute would come into play with those sleazes.
Patrick S on September 25, 2008 at 11:14 PM
So the market crashed last week as you said it did, then? So what is the Dow at now, 6000? Give me a break. While I don’t follow the markets very closely any more after I sold all of my stock some years ago, I suspect I lost a lot more money after 9/11 than I would if I were still in the market last week.
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:15 PM
phronesis:
I know MM is boss around here and all that, but I think she knows as much about the economy as she does port terminals, which is not a lot. That is not really an insult, political pundits are not masters of all things. They have opinions, just like the rest of us. But expertise, not always.
I think Bernacke knows what he is talking about. And no, I am not a leftist and I don’t think Bernacke or Bush are either.
Besides, even McCain says there is a real problem here. I do not know why people are acting as if it is all some paranoid fantasy.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Mr Lynn,
All it would take is a stroke of the pen. Will it save the day. Doubtful. What it might do, that’s why I’m for it, is relieve some of the pressure that is causing a liquidity problem on a day to day basis.
It would be a mistake for anyone, no matter what size a bailout, to think that the housing bubble can be put back together. We are going down, all we arguing about is when, how and at what pace. Because I prefer no plan, naive at best as long as there are politicians on the loose, anything that slows the pace gives the market–the best arbiter of price–the time to work.
here’s some charts for the crashoholics running around here
http://www.mrci.com/pdf/spi.pdf
http://www.mrci.com/pdf/dji.pdf
http://www.mrci.com/pdf/ndxi.pdf
If the market were to open right now it would be down 140 pts–standard these days. On the positive side Washinton Mutual has been taken care of.
patrick neid on September 25, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Michelle’s front page story…lots of info there.
capitalist piglet on September 25, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Floating:
The market did not crash last week. It lost a lot of value, but it recovered. I am talking about something that it can not just recover from in a day or two. That is a crash.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:16 PM
That’s a great idea! Even if McCain won’t support a socialist plan, Obama sure will.
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:17 PM
so because your cash is safely stashed away in your underwear drawer, there shouldn’t be some kind of bail out passed? i don’t think you realize that the bail out doesn’t just help all those craptastic wall street companies but the economy as a whole. so because you want to avoid government intervention, small businesses and jobs should go into the crapper?
anna on September 25, 2008 at 11:17 PM
I sent this letter to my Republican Senator, and also to Jim DeMint, who’s been pretty tough on this bailout business:
Dear Senator DeMint,
While I don’t have the pleasure of being one of your state constituents, you impressed me as a voice of leadership in the current financial crisis. I hope you can take a moment to entertain a plea from a Florida Republican whose only previous correspondence with a government official was a message wishing President Bush well, in the wake of 9/11. Here’s what bothers me: Congress is debating a trillion-dollar bailout package, with much of the hopeful return on the taxpayer’s involuntary “investment” to come in the future, but the very same people who caused the current crisis are still seated in power.
The wisdom of using a vast sum of taxpayer money to bail out the banking industry is debatable, but the idea of putting this money into the hands of the exact same people who authored the insane legislation that led to the subprime mortgage collapse is sheery folly, and fiscal irresponsibility of the highest order. In fact, it’s really nothing short of tyranny – no different than a feudal lord extracting wealth from the hides of his peasants, to cover the costs of his latest failed adventure.
I believe the taxpayers have the right to demand the removal of the culprits from office, before we agree to hand over a trillion dollars’ worth of our future. My hope is that the Republicans in the Senate will demand the resignation of Barney Frank as a necessary precondition before any bailout or reform bill will be passed. He isn’t the only one who deserves to be gone, but he is the worst of the lot, and nothing about his current behavior suggests he would be any more trustworthy now, than he was the last time he got a chance to ruin the American economy. Indeed, passing any sort of massive taxpayer-funded plan while Frank remains in office would be no different than making risky mortgage loans to people who obviously cannot repay them.
Of course, Frank’s party will never agree to such a condition. This is good. Make them explain to the American people why the author of the looming Second Great Depression should be allowed to manage this gigantic sum of taxpayer money. Make them explain why the Senate simply cannot act against a man who STILL insists on subsidizing and insuring risky mortgages, who seems neither contrite by his past mistakes, nor particularly upset at the events which have come to pass. Let the American people read Barney Frank’s words, from fifteen years ago through yesterday, and realize the horrendous risk that is being taken with their economic future. Most citizens have no idea who Barney Frank is, and they are clearly confused as to what just happened to the banking industry, or who is to blame. I hope that someone will stand up and ask Barney Frank to resign honorably or be removed from office, and when he refuses, the educational process can begin in earnest.
Doctor Zero on September 25, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Dodd you have screwed us for 7 years with this stuff. Dodd needs the dog squeeze slapped out of him. Millions of Americans are calling their reps in congress to practice their 1st amendment rights to protest this heist. If the 1st amendment application doesn’t protect or relieve the people threatened to lose pensions, savings, livelihoods, do they move on to the 2nd?
wepeople on September 25, 2008 at 11:18 PM
Byron York has this statement from the McCain campaign:
Terrie on September 25, 2008 at 11:21 PM
Excellent comment.
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:22 PM
wepeople:
If they do nothing, those pensions and life savings might very well be gone. Just calling your rep and complaining about what you call a heist will in and of itself do nothing to protect your savings if the banks and markets fail. Nothing.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:23 PM
mccain and the house repubs need to hold a press conference and come out with specifics that suck about the dem plan so they can shame the dems into taking that shit out. they have to name names.
anna on September 25, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Yesterday the windmill tilting was toward those pesky illegal immigrant mortgages. Today it’s those lazy and violent ACORNers. I suspect tomorrow’s meme will be equally bombastic.
Sitting here utterly disgusted by the state of the Union. Bush really did buckfutt this country short term. He caved on so much domestic stuff to get the Iraq war won, it’s come back big time. Like giving an underachieving, petulant child money to go away and leave you alone.
pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Thanks, piglet.
Patrick S on September 25, 2008 at 11:24 PM
You people are clueless. This isn’t about the collapse of the stock prices; it’s about the collapse of our nation’s financial system. Do you think that you’ll keep your jobs if there’s no credit available for businesses to operate? Do you think that the nation should revert to a barter-based economy?
There are some brilliant Republicans involved in this plan- yet the wingnuts who have almost no understanding of macroeconomics can’t even trust the best and brightest of their own party. It’s pure ideology above all else.
The government’s actions might cost taxpayers, but they could also result in a profit over the next 5 years. It’s not worth experiencing another great depression because of your ideological point of view.
bayam on September 25, 2008 at 11:25 PM
How about putting this into the bill, NO More Campaign cash from any business, special interest, lobby, Union or any other group given to ANY Member of the Senate or Congress any elected office or to any member of their family, or future Senators or Congressman running in the future.
The gravy train of campaign cash ends, the bribes end.
You want money ask the American people to give it to you.
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:25 PM
that’s nice and all but how is letting an economy fail “fighting” for your country? i don’t want the govt running the financial sector either but i sure as hell don’t want the market to tank and banks to go under.
anna on September 25, 2008 at 11:26 PM
It was a worldwide depression that lead to the rise of fascism. Economic dislocation in Russia was crucial to the rise of communism in Russia. Your overly simplistic understanding of socialism will result in more socialism throughout the world if the bailout package isn’t passed. If the US financial system collapses, the rest of the world will go with it.
bayam on September 25, 2008 at 11:27 PM
Feds sieze WaMu.
BallisticBob on September 25, 2008 at 11:27 PM
thank you voice of reason. people are missing that the economy will come to a halt if there is no credit.
anna on September 25, 2008 at 11:28 PM
bluesky:
Fight for your freedom? What the hell does that have to do with any of this. It is as if people are hiding behind demagoguery to avoid dealing with the reality of this situation. No one is taking your freedom away from you. Did the S&L bailout turn you into a serf or a peasant? Sheesh.
I remember when the first drafts of anything from Paulson came out and people got all excited because of a Section 8 reference to no review by courts or whatever…and then I read that is standard in bills that and is designed to stop frivilous litigation. But did people try to find out what it meant? No, they just flew off the handle and assumed it was an effort to get around the law or something.
It reminds of people who get sick, go to the doctor and get meds and then after reading all the side effects, decide they will just forget the meds and lay down and die instead.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:29 PM
I guess Shelby and company don’t much like McCain because the middle class who is watching their retirement get put off another 5 years is going to punish Republicans for letting the markets crash.
pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:29 PM
Anna: Actually, I am waiting for government action to happen. It’s in the form of principles and a bill being written by Eric Cantor, Jeb Hensarling, and Paul Ryan.
I am not going to state that the current bailout proposal is good. It isn’t. 20% of the funds were going to ACORN. That right there is a non-starter.
My remarks were all in regards to the reliance on a credit scale where people pull numbers out of their bottoms.
I am not worrying because it does me no good to worry. And you may want to redact your statements, as you seemed to have not looked at the earlier posts back on page 2 or 3 that I have made.
Sakaki on September 25, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Do you think leaving Iraq to be taken over by terrorists would be better for us? I know the traitorous dems did.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:30 PM
Sakaki:
If the dollar continues to fall it won’t matter where you hide that money.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:31 PM
It’s all going to hell people. We arrest this now or we reach the point of no return. Wachovia will be next. Then Bank of America. The Fed will be the only one’s lending anyone anything and they will be soon be overwhelmed. It isn’t conservative to let the world burn!
phronesis on September 25, 2008 at 11:32 PM
I think it’s time to take the night off and go watch Oregon State and USC.
Goodnight everyone, and remember the words of Douglas Adams:
“Don’t Panic”.
Sakaki on September 25, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Terrye:
You worry too much.
Sakaki on September 25, 2008 at 11:33 PM
“pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Do you think leaving Iraq to be taken over by terrorists would be better for us? I know the traitorous dems did.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:30 PM”
I think Bush used up all his capital on fighting it. Now we are seeing the fallout. If he didn’t need Iraq he could have vetoed easy mortgage bills or put tougher language in.
pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:33 PM
To be accurate, there is money to lend but they aren’t lending it because they have no idea what the gubmint is going to do. If we would have said from the beginning that nothing would be done, fiscally responsible companies would be feasting off the carcasses of those who were not and we’d be on our way to recovery.
The reason the gubmint got involved was because our politicians are bought and paid for by those who have been entrenched in the markets for so long, they believe it belongs to them. It’s time for new blood.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:34 PM
“Because it does me no good to worry”
Fine, just understand when I give you that beat down to take over your prime corner apple stand spot.
pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:34 PM
The free market at work. The strong and solvent consume the weak and corrupt.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:37 PM
pc:
Back in 2003 Bush asked that the Treasury Department take over regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The Democrats blocked that, and the Republicans did not bother supporting him on the issue. He put that in the budget request every year and every year Congress through it back at him. ]
In 2005 John McCain, a strong supporter of the war in Iraq asked for reform of the whole system. Republicans did not support him either.
Blaming Bush might make you feel better, but this is one issue that a lot of people are responsible for.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Meant to add that JP Morgan Chase gobbled them up.
YUM YUM!
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:37 PM
They are! They’re fighting for a better bill that might actually work than you would have gotten otherwise with your doom-and-gloom defeatist attitude.
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Of course this could all just be theater to give McCain the opportunity to “reign in concerned conservatives”. It would be win win. That may be the plan. I can live with a couple of days of volatility if it means this is the October surprise (a little early) designed to knock Obama out. I’ll give them this much. That’s a hell of a pot they are staying on. Big brass ones to trust the markets to not just go whoosh.
pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Congress did not do it’s job, Bush tried to fix the problems repeatedly and the Dems blocked it. McCain has a good reform bill in 2005 the Dems blocked it, Greenspan warned them and they did NOTHING(they got the name the DO NOTHING CONGRESS AND A 9% approval rating for a reason)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:38 PM
I hope conservatives wake up before it’s too late. Maybe it’s time to stop by your local book store and pick up a book about the great depression. For many Americans, it wasn’t a pleasant time to be alive. Today, many people are assuming that the worse can’t happen; that another depression (not recession) is impossible. The sad truth is that destructive financial events can and will occur again. We are playing with fire near the refinery.
bayam on September 25, 2008 at 11:39 PM
csdeven:
That is not exactly true, the lenders were balking on lending money long before the government got involved, that is one of the reasons the government did get involved. If the market could just wave a magic wand and handle all this, we would not be having this conversation.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:40 PM
Yep, the republicans are going to screw this thing up and are going to, unfairly, take the blame. The Dems are HOPING the economy tanks between now and election time. duh
Roger Waters on September 25, 2008 at 11:40 PM
phronesis on September 25, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Citibank is next.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:40 PM
If we get a decent bill, great. But people need to realize that no bill means depression. You’re right about mark to market being abolished but its too late for that to fix things. The damage has been done.
phronesis on September 25, 2008 at 11:41 PM
bayam on September 25, 2008 at 11:39 PM
While it’s nice to have another vice in support. I feel like we are talking to the wind. My money goes into gold over the weekend if no bailout.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:41 PM
McCain’s reform bill dealt with Fannie and Freddie, which have already been rescued by the government. This legislation is about something entirely different. Holding onto your right wing talking points won’t give you any insight into what’s occurring right now and the consequences of what will happen if no action is taken.
We can spend a lot of time blamestorming and pointing fingers later, but now we need to think about saving the source of America’s strength- our economic might. If our system collapses, we can no longer assume that America will be the dominant power in the world and its protector of democracy and freedom.
bayam on September 25, 2008 at 11:42 PM
How is the Fed being the only lender in America less socialist than the Paulson/Bernanke plan. Anyone?
phronesis on September 25, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Floating Rock:
Oh please. This did not happen in the last couple of days. If Bush had not gone on TV, if Paulson had not come up with a bill those people you are talking about would not even be dealing with this.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:42 PM
“bayam on September 25, 2008 at 11:39 PM
While it’s nice to have another vice in support. I feel like we are talking to the wind. My money goes into gold over the weekend if no bailout.
unseen on September 25, 2008 at 11:41 PM”
You’ll be breaking the cardinal rule of investing.
pc on September 25, 2008 at 11:43 PM
Dems did not even let that bill go the floor.
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:43 PM
Reading back through the comments it seems, to me, we have four types of players on this thread. The white collars panicking types, the OMG I’m scared types, the FUandthehorseyourodeinon types, and the eat popcorn while Nero fiddles types.
Nero does play lovely, doesn’t he?
Seriously, I believe it will settle out. We’ll have a big recession and learn a valuable lesson, that both Karl Marx and Fast Eddie need to be kicked off the planet. It’ll be painful but believe it or not the sun will come up tomorrow…..fiddle away Nero, and pass the butter.
Limerick on September 25, 2008 at 11:43 PM
anna since it appears that it is a high priority of yours to see ACORN get hundreds of millions of dollars from the US Treasury, I’d say that Obama is definitely your man.
on a more serious note, relax. if it takes until Monday or Tuesday to get something passed, we aren’t going to see Hoovervilles and soup kitchens.
funky chicken on September 25, 2008 at 11:44 PM
phonesis:
Not to mention the fact that if enough banks fail it will end up being government that fills the void. They are the only ones who can. But somehow that is not socialism either.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:44 PM
I am 100% with you.
ClassicCon on September 25, 2008 at 11:45 PM
McCain may be to blame, just not in the way Dems think.
I can imagine Republicans after hearing McCain was coming to Washington thinking ‘Great, McCain’s here to sell us out again’
agmartin on September 25, 2008 at 11:46 PM
Saving Wall st. will in turn save Main st. Deal with the principles only, no supplimantals, no pork for the Dems and bust Dodd and Frank back to plain ol congress-person*
* for Barney
dmann on September 25, 2008 at 11:46 PM
funky chicken:
ACORN? We would sacrifice the credit system in this country over ACORN? You know, I don’t like ACORN either, I think they are dishonest, but that is not the central issue here. If people think it is then are whistling past the graveyard.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:47 PM
But without the expectation that the federal government would bail them out, don’t you agree that they would have sought other remedies?
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:47 PM
I was calling this two years ago on FR, only to have my account banned.
Bush needed to inflate the economy in order to deflect attention off Iraq. The easiest way to pump up an economy is by a brute force population increase (via illegal immigration). Add to that radically loosened credit standards, and the result was predictable:
1. huge run up in short-term profits + very low unemployment
2. market crash
Unfortunately for Bush, his term didn’t end 6 mos ago so that he could avoid the bill coming due.
kuhio on September 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM
And yet, as I recall, you admit that you didn’t see this problem coming—as Michelle and myself, among others, did in some form or another.
But now, suddenly, you’re perception about the reality of the present market is somehow more prescient than those that actually did see this problem over the horizon?
You may be right, only time will tell, but I seriously doubt it. Jiminy Cricket doesn’t have a lot to learn from the other creatures in the forest that enjoyed their summer in lieu of preparing for the coming winter. (I tried searching YouTube for the episode but couldn’t find it.)
FloatingRock on September 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM
unseen–bayam IS a liberal uber-supporter of The One. Just so you know who you are agreeing with….
McCain isn’t saying he’s going to block everything. He’s just saying that the conservative representatives’ ideas deserve to be heard and considered before we pour 700 billion bucks down the drain….and if reading the bailout package closely catches more crap like the ACORN handout, I say we let them scrutinize to their hearts’ content.
funky chicken on September 25, 2008 at 11:48 PM
agmartin:
McCain is a US Senator, it is his job to do this sort of thing. He does not work for the other members of the Senate, he is supposed to work for the people who elected him. So why shouldn’t he be there?
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Oh doom and gloom! Fear!!!! The sky is falling
I ain’t scared i’m already poor(monetarily speaking), and I don’t want Socialism because then I would be even MORE poor because I would then start to lose my RIGHTS and Freedoms!
Forget that! At least Now i’m poor and free, IF we are Socialist, then I will be poor with no Rights or Freedoms.
Screw that.
Chakra Hammer on September 25, 2008 at 11:50 PM
If you weren’t such a Clueless Troll and Obama Whore, people might take you seriously here.
But you are, so we don’t
Go scream your scatter-shot insults somewhere else
Janos Hunyadi on September 25, 2008 at 11:51 PM
According to Politico, it was Obama that brought up the Reps counter plan and put them in a corner. This came when Bush gave Pelosi and Reid the floor and they passed it to Caesar, I mean Obama.
Cardiganfox on September 25, 2008 at 11:51 PM
bayam is a liberal, and 99% of the time I do not agree with him. We have had plenty of arguments. But even a stopped clock is {sort of} right twice a day.
The point is that everyone from the President to McCain to economists and analysts all over the world say we are facing a crisis here and yet there seems to be people on the right who want to pretend it is nothing, just a game, a ruse, whatever.
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Capital with who? The dems? The wanted to lose in Iraq so they could walk into the presidency with no challenge. There is no capital to lose with scum like them. Besides, for a good portion of his tenure, the reps ran the congress. But they, like the dems now, were caught up in enriching themselves and forgot to govern for the citizenry.
csdeven on September 25, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Terrye on September 25, 2008 at 11:47 PM
Girl, calm down. Let them do their work. If they don’t sign this deal tonight, the world isn’t going to end.
I’m plenty freaked out by my personal situation here–we hold a fair number of rental homes, and it could be pretty nasty for us. BUT that doesn’t justify having the gvmt sign off on something without actually making sure it really is the best they can come up with.
And a big ACORN payday certainly isn’t even close to the best they can do. And slipping in an oil shale moratorium doesn’t pass the smell test either. Or the car and student loan thing. etc, etc.
funky chicken on September 25, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Uhhgg…now you find you patriotism…
ClassicCon on September 25, 2008 at 11:53 PM
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