Shelby, DeMint now oppose bailout
posted at 9:15 am on September 24, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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It may be time for the Bush administration to start looking for a Plan B. Two Republican Senators have now come out in opposition to the Paulson bail-out plan, and with Democrats like Chris Dodd allying themselves to the conservative rebellion in Congress, the White House has begun looking very isolated in its attempt to resolve the credit crisis. Richard Shelby and Jim DeMint have begun a conservative pushback to rescuing Wall Street from a situation that they claim is all Wall Street’s doing.
First, DeMint:
“There are much better ways of dealing with this problem than forcing American taxpayers to pay for every asset some investor doesn’t want anymore. We should start by reforming government policies and programs that created this mess, including the Federal Reserve’s easy money policy, the congressional charters of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Community Reinvestment Act. Then Congress should pass a number of permanent and proven pro-growth reforms to encourage capital formation and boost asset values. We need to make permanent reductions in the corporate tax and the capital gains tax rates. We have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, which encourages companies to take jobs and investment overseas.”
“It’s a sad fact, but Americans can no longer trust the economic information they are getting from this Administration. The Administration said the bailout of Bear Stearns would stop the bleeding and solve the problem, but they were wrong. They said $150 billion in new government spending using rebate checks would solve the problem, but they were wrong again. They said new authority to bailout Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would solve the problem without being used, but they were wrong again. Now they want us to trust them to spend nearly a trillion dollars on more government bailouts. It’s completely irresponsible and I cannot support it.”
The Wall Street Journal profiles Shelby’s opposition:
With anger mounting from the left and right against the Treasury Department’s proposed financial bailout, one of the opponents’ most powerful allies is Alabama Sen. Richard Shelby, a Democrat-turned-Republican who espouses free-market principles with a populist streak.
Mr. Shelby, the ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee, said in an interview Tuesday that he is likely to vote against the proposal. “I’ve never supported a direct bailout,” Mr. Shelby said. “I voted against Chrysler when I was a freshman congressman. They said, ‘Well, Chrysler will fail.’ And well maybe if it’d failed then we wouldn’t have the problems facing us today.” …
“I think we’re going down the road of France now,” Mr. Shelby told one television interviewer Tuesday, before quickly adding, “in all due respect for my French friends.”
While I’m pleased that both Senators are standing up for conservative principles, and from DeMint this comes as no surprise, the fact is that this mess is not just of Wall Street’s making [see update below]. Right now, Congress is doing its level best to pretend it had nothing to do with this failure, and Chris Dodd — as the chair of the committee that was supposed to exercise oversight on this industry — is spinning the fastest. The more Congress can shove the blame entirely onto Wall Street, the better off it looks, but that’s simply not the case.
The heart of this failure came from a mandate by members of Congress from both parties that demanded easier loan terms for marginally-qualified buyers. At first, this meant working-class families, but it also resulted in easier terms all the way through to the highest income levels. Lower qualifiers meant more buyers, and buyers buying bigger houses. The net effect of this was to create a much higher demand for housing and for mortgages.
How did these get structured? The trouble came when people stopped providing solid down payments to ensure equity from the start of the loan. They got adjustable-rate mortgages for loans they couldn’t afford, betting that the quickly-rising price of housing would continue its trajectory and magically give them enough equity by the time the ARMs adjusted so that they could refinance their loans to something affordable. And for a few years, that’s exactly what happened — and so more and more people followed that example.
This produced two other effects. First, the government had Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sponsor many of these questionable loans and convert them into investment products, which essentially infected the entire investment community with massive, poorly-secured loans. Second, the demand touched off a residential building boom as people attempted to provide inventory for the massive amount of buyers coming into the market.
Unfortunately, this created a big Ponzi scheme, one dictated by Congress and two administrations. It only worked as long as housing prices continued to increase. When the bubble finally popped late last year, it was analogous to the margin calls of 1929, only in slow motion. Once homeowners realized that their houses would not increase in value, they knew that they were stuck in ARMs that they wouldn’t be able to afford. The defaults would not just sink the banks but also the investors who bought the securities.
Who created this Ponzi scheme? Congress did. Who demanded lower qualifiers for home mortgages and then insisted on having Fannie/Freddie turn them into investments to support the lenders? Congress did. The lenders share the responsibility as well, but without Fannie/Freddie making their bad lending decisions profitable, they would never have jumped into the sub-prime market with the kind of enthusiasm they did. Now Congress wants to leave them holding the bag and all the blame — and that’s pretty convenient for Congress.
DeMint gets closer to the truth here than Shelby. Congress didn’t demand that Chrysler build K-cars and other lousy models and poor business practices that led to their bad performance, which is why Congress shouldn’t have had anything to do with the Chrysler bailout. That doesn’t apply here. DeMint, though, rightly points out that this is actually Bailout v4.0 in this crisis, and versions 1-3 didn’t solve the problem.
Taxpayers don’t want to be on the hook for the credit-market failure, but in the end, we’re responsible for Congress. Not many objected when home loans got so plentiful and our home equity skyrocketed over the last ten years. We need a responsible, market-based plan that undoes the damage our Congress created, and that means we’re going to have to shoulder some of the burden in the short term to make it happen. That’s our penalty for letting Congress run wild, and it should result in a lesson learned for the American taxpayer that, in Robert Heinlein’s words, there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. The plan should have accountability for those running it, and it should include a plan to completely dismantle the government’s reach into private lending markets permanently.
Update: I want to clarify something regarding Jim DeMint. He’s really been one of the best voices on this, and he agrees that government got us into this meltdown:
Sen. Jim DeMint, a South Carolina Republican, differed with Schumer, saying Congress should resist the Bush administration’s pleas for the legislation. He said, “The government broke it. I don’t trust them to fix it.”
DeMint isn’t passing the buck. He’s got the right diagnosis. Now we need Congress to fix what it broke, and to keep itself from breaking more in the future.
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sheesh…how many years ago did Shelby turn “R”?
This is going to be interesting to watch over the next couple of days.
I am torn on the issue myself.
toenail on September 24, 2008 at 9:18 AM
Spot on Ed.
swami on September 24, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Go Jim go.
SuzEQCitizen on September 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM
This is why I want at least a long discussion before any rescue. If enough senators and congressmen publicly fight the bill as it stands, we have a chance at putting the blame where it belongs, and fixing the system instead of the symptom.
Vashta.Nerada on September 24, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Any harsh and speedy recovery bill of God knows how much money is ridiculous and irresponsible. You must conduct things rationally and not spend the tax payers’ money frivolously. I just wish that McCain can point the finger as you say Ed, at congress.
jencab on September 24, 2008 at 9:25 AM
They may not be so proud of their opposition a year from now.
RBMN on September 24, 2008 at 9:27 AM
About the same time the rest of Alabama did.
Elizabetty on September 24, 2008 at 9:27 AM
I don’t believe that the Bush administration should attempt a “Plan B” . They should simply tell those congressional dolts that they have been give the administration’s best shot, and if they don’t like it then they should develop one of their own. Obvious the house and senate would rather set back on their lazy butts and criticize the administration but they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with that tactic.
rplat on September 24, 2008 at 9:29 AM
I am an avid Dave Ramsey Fan. He’s got some ideas on this – they sound good to me! PLEASE GO READ THEM and if you agree, he’s got links right there on the page to contact your representatives!
http://www1.daveramsey.com/etc/fed_bailout/economic_cleanup_10887.htmlc
Dave Ramsey has a good solution!!! Go read it and then WRITE TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVES!!
Tell them that you will remember how they voted when you go to cast YOUR votes in November!!!!!
unmeritedfavor on September 24, 2008 at 9:29 AM
I’d like to see an update to this post, Ed, that provides a bit more details about how Congress pushed the market to offer mortgages to less qualified borrowers. I’m not doubting it happened, I am just ignorant of the specifics and I want to understand it clearly so I can decide whether I buy into your premise that the taxpayer should shoulder some of this burden.
Was there some specific laws or regulations passed that forced lenders to start opening up to less qualified borrowers? I keep hearing people say this but I never get details about exactly how it happened and how the pressure was applied to the lenders to make it happen.
Could you fill in some of the blanks for me here? My initial gut feeling was that lenders got into sub-prime mortgages because the profit margin is so much higher and they were letting their desire for profit override their natural concern about the increased risk of such mortgage products. What did Congress do, exactly, to encourage this movement in the lending market?
Thanks!
Mojoski on September 24, 2008 at 9:30 AM
All true. And we are responsible for the Congress we have. But we elected them to be overseers, while we did our own jobs. Now we have to do their jobs and ours. The institutions of the society we now have no longer produce the type of prudent, conservative, cautious people we need to manage the nation’s finances. My uneducated grandmother who balled-up used string and aluminum foil to use over again would have instinctively known better how to handle the nation’s money.
As for accountability and the government’s withdrawal from private lending–you must be thinking of some other government. And don’t forget, we’re supposed to be finished drafting and deciding this by yesterday.
JiangxiDad on September 24, 2008 at 9:31 AM
That would be nice. Sadly, that plan has no chance. Zip, zero, nada. A Democrat controlled congress will not let go of the strings. They will attach more strings. The plan will just become a bigger bandaid on an infected wound.
EconomicNeocon on September 24, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Well written, Ed.
Time for McCain to grow a pair, and start poking out some Dem eyes.
hippie_chucker on September 24, 2008 at 9:32 AM
DeMint’s comments are long-term solutions. Right now the house is burning down and he’s talking about renovations.
I agree with several of his points but right now the congress needs to get behind something–even if it is preliminary–otherwise the markets will get very ugly in a few days.
Buffett’s GS investment helps the markets today, but even he says that his bet is based on congress acting. If he thought they weren’t going to act he’d be selling rather than buying.
dedalus on September 24, 2008 at 9:34 AM
Google Community Reinvestment Act, for a start.
From Rich Lowry at NR:
JiangxiDad on September 24, 2008 at 9:34 AM
This administration can be so utterly tone deaf at times. Did they really think American taxpayers were going to accept something like this on blind trust after the mess that was created? Even the dumbest American understands that mortgages were given to people who should not have gotten them, alot of bigwigs in New York and D.C. made alot of money from it, and they are now to be left paying for it.
Meanwhile, the earth still seems to be spinning on its axis, the market is still moving, and there is other news out there.
BigD on September 24, 2008 at 9:34 AM
The members of congress are pretty wealthy. Much wealthier on average than the public at large.
As a start, I’d like to see any congressman or senator that ever received any money from one of the firms being bailed out, return that money.
I admit it won’t be a lot of money, but it would be at least a symbolic cleansing of the collective souls.
MarkTheGreat on September 24, 2008 at 9:35 AM
It’s shocking that the media is interviewing Dodd for his advice on how we should get out of this mess, instead of asking him why the hell he blocked legislation that could have avoided it.
McCain needs to frame the debate, and fast. Dodd, Obama and some other Dems are the primary cause for not preventing this meltdown. McCain needs to get that message to every American.
BadgerHawk on September 24, 2008 at 9:35 AM
This happened on GWB’s watch. His legacay will be the economy crash, just as Jimmy Carter’s was the 17% interest rates.
There are many contributing factors, but GWB will get the blame. And fairly, if it had happened under Clinton, we’d be blaming him.
GWB has screwed us royally.
stenwin77 on September 24, 2008 at 9:37 AM
And they will all blame Bush. He atleast has always met this head on and has tried to push things forward.
tomas on September 24, 2008 at 9:37 AM
When the FHA underwriting guidelines became as stringent as a buy-here pay-here used car lot (i.e. if you can put fog on a mirror you’re driving) all of us in the Real Estate biz saw an enormous shift to FHA loans to buyers that had lousy credit histories. It’s hard to fault the lenders when Uncle Sam is in effect co-signing the loan. If bank “A” didn’t make the loan, there were 25 others waiting in line to make the loan, so to stay competetive they all made those loans. It’s starts and ends with congress….
Tim Zank on September 24, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Bush is a great man
tomas on September 24, 2008 at 9:37 AM
ED, BRAVO! Great summary to date.
Hats off for DeMint!
Everyone needs to rally behind intelligent opposition that Newt outlined. Empower the opposition with specific focus as DeMint is doing. Do not allow further financial and legislative encumbrance though it be smothered with the honey of “bare necessity” as a bail-out “for our own good”.
Thank God that conservatives are not falling in step to further empower Socialists. Beyond Congress, note well this Socialism within the “compassionate” Bush Presidency. If McCain had a brain to use, he’d tackle this alongside DeMint and listen to Newt to prove NOW his own identity as a fiscal conservative during fiscal “crisis” that he most certainly is not “another Bush”. It’s a simple thing to comprehend and to project with consistency.
maverick muse on September 24, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Given what’s happened, imagine the damage that could be done by a Democrat congress and a liberal economic neophyte in the White House with carte blanche to exercise his redistributionist theories.
whitetop on September 24, 2008 at 9:38 AM
Ramsey’s talking about “mark to market”–forcing co’s to accurately account for the true and current market value of assets on their books.
Everyone is now discussing whether this has caused more problems than it was intended to solve.
The Fed’s current proposal to “hold these mortgages til maturity” is already a tacit acceptance of the notion that mark to market isn’t working.
Ramsey isn’t wrong, but he really isn’t offering anything that isn’t already being widely discussed and considered.
JiangxiDad on September 24, 2008 at 9:39 AM
DeMint is the #1 Senator, no doubt.
lodge on September 24, 2008 at 9:39 AM
It ends with the american people. When I bought my last house They said Tomas we can give you up to this amount of money. Did I buy a house for that amount…Duh…no. I bought one I could afford.
We became a greedy society.
tomas on September 24, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Warren Buffett:
(paraphrasing)
I’d do it. It has to be done. Paulson’s the best man for the job and should be asked to stay on no matter who wins in Nov. He’s a rare talent who understands the market like few others. I wouldn’t have put money in Goldman if I didn’t believe the Gov. was going to do this plan.
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 9:39 AM
I am so proud of him. South Carolina is always given short shrift in so any areas, but he makes up for the SCUMBAG LLINDSEY GRAHAMNESTY that we all DEEEESPISE.
Call, email and don’t settle for the DOUBLE SPEAK BULLSH*IT.
THE RIGHTEOUS ANGER OF AMERICAN PEOPLE TURNED THE TIDE IN THE AMNESTY DEBATE>>>let them hear from you today!!!
seejanemom on September 24, 2008 at 9:40 AM
God Bless Jim DeMint. What a hero.
dhawbake on September 24, 2008 at 9:41 AM
And none of your or Demint has an anwer…he is playing politics. It will be at your expense.
tomas on September 24, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Okay we know where we are at with the mortgage crisis. We know how we got here. Now I want somebody to direct me to some sources that will explain in plain English just what happens if the bailout is not approved.
Am I asking too much?
Just A Grunt on September 24, 2008 at 9:42 AM
I’ve already written my reps, asking that if a bill does pass that an earmark be attached which will pay-off all my debts as well as provide me with a vacation home in Hawaii.
Bishop on September 24, 2008 at 9:42 AM
If some plan doesn’t emerge soon, the market will freeze up again as people flee what they consider to be risky investments. The rush from MM’s will continue. There will be no cash for lending, or even enough for redemptions. Businesses that rely on sufficient cash flow from comm’l paper sales will stop. The world will not end. But the economy will seize up like an engine.
JiangxiDad on September 24, 2008 at 9:43 AM
As an American citizen, I want (demand) accountability, truth, and NO excuses to come out of the FBI investigations. I don’t care about the (R) or (D) factor as much as I care about getting the facts out on the table so that future generations don’t allow these mistakes to ruin our country.
As a Conservative Republican, I want to expose just how flawed the Liberal ideology really is, and how the motive of “buying votes” at the expense of county dominates the Liberal agenda rather than offering solutions for the problems that plague Americans in this era. I want the corruption, the connections to foreign money-leaders, the connections to the mob bosses both in America and outside of America, I want the facts out on the table for all Americans to see. I want the “chain baby” laws reversed; I want organizations such as CAIR and ACORN exposed….
Wow, I feel better for the moment!
Keemo on September 24, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Um…
Actually, Chrysler built the K-cars withthe guaranteed loan money, and the K platform was arguably the most successful vehicle platform ever produced. Not only were the K-Cars built on the platform, but so were the very successful Lebarons and Lebaron convertibles of the era, and also the Chrysler, Plymouth and Dodge minivans, which were so popular that they transformed the company, which wound up paying off all the loans–which were all only government guaranteed and not direct from the government–and Uncle Sam wound up making a nice profit off stock options it took as collateral on the deal.
Typhoon on September 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM
I am all for skeptism about the bailout…but becareful what you wish for.
Mr. Joe on September 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM
It’s happening as we speak. LIBOR is moving up and T-Bills down. That means institutions are back to not lending and parking cash for safety. That’s happening even though the vast majority of the market believes the plan will pass… even so, they are fleeing just to be safe.
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 9:47 AM
What we are debating are the effects on the economy if this shame of a bailout doesn’t pass, and what we should be asking is WHY is it so important.
All we are talking about is the status quo of billionaires who caused this mess are in danger of losing their long standing positions as those who control the markets. The reason why our politicians are not discussing that is because these billionaires are the ones who are lining their pockets and getting them elected.
The fact is that in our free market system, the people that have been in control of the markets for 30 years will be replaced by new blood. And it wont take months or years by hours, days and possible weeks.
The congress is standing in the way of the punishment of their money people. Does anyone else agree that these free market proponents have suddenly become socialists when their irresponsible behavior has bitten them in the butt?
LET THEM CRASH AND BURN!!!!! Trust me, new investors and responsible money managers will take advantage of the errors their competition has made and will fill the void they leave quite nicely. The only reason they are not in the loop now is because they are not connected to politicians that pass shameless bills (like this bailout) to protect THEIR money men.
This also includes the FOOLS who tried to keep up with the Jones’ by taking loans that they couldn’t afford if the rates went up.
STOP protecting the greedy!!!! Allow them to suffer the consequences of their character flaws. And remember, there are more of us who are responsible and pay our mortgages than there are those who are not. It’s time we band together and vocally call these losers what they are and polarize responsible Americans against irresponsible deadbeats.
csdeven on September 24, 2008 at 9:47 AM
I seem to recall that building FWD cars was a condition that congress placed on the loan guarantee, but 1979 is a bit too old to find documentation on the web.
Vashta.Nerada on September 24, 2008 at 9:48 AM
JiangxiDad on September 24, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Really tough times are ahead for all of us. My oldest son is taking next semester (minimum) off from college so that he can help out around the house. Every market is facing tough decisions, decisions that will decide their destiny. The correction of the markets had to happen, as corruption at every level reached it’s peak some time ago.
We will make it through, we are Americans. Our government has let us down at every turn, at every level. Our media let us down and should share equal blame.
To hell with all of them! Let the facts come forward.
Keemo on September 24, 2008 at 9:49 AM
This is simply a Bank Preservation Bill. The mortgages are all gone off of bank books now since they were able to foist them off on Fannie and Freddie.
Now the banks are stuck will bad developer and construction loans that they can’t get rid of, and don’t want to sell for cheap, and getting them in trouble with capital requirements with the regulators.
Cry me a river as Michelle would say. Banks made the bad loans out of inflated land values, poor collateral decisions, and just plain greed. The ones that cannot get capital together will fail, and the more prudent ones will clean up with bargains.
I have no patience for banks that don’t want to sell devalued land or lots and want taxpayers to bail them out.
Starlink on September 24, 2008 at 9:49 AM
That includes you and me who are those deadbeats. We are trying to blame BIG CORPORATIONS. They are a symptom of our greed.
tomas on September 24, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Yeah, great idea…oppose the bailout so we can have a complete global recession…thanks guys.
I know who to vote against now.
SaintOlaf on September 24, 2008 at 9:50 AM
DeMint’s making sense. Thanks to DeMint and Newt, I’m taking another look at the bailout approach.
petefrt on September 24, 2008 at 9:50 AM
Demint didn’t say anything
tomas on September 24, 2008 at 9:51 AM
In espeacially deep south states, Republican political infrastructure has been largely non-existent from the end of Reconstruction till the Gingrich revolution of ‘94 and beyond. Even as such, growth in the Republican party in southern states continues to be in large part a matter of converting traditional conservative, Democratic talent at the state wide and local levels to Republican talent engaged to take on establishment Democrats at the national level. So for example, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana now finds her seat being contested by a recent convert John Kennedy who, if he does win, will have done so, more from with party identification than anything he ever achieved as a Dem treasurer in the Blanco Administration.
Nyog_of_the_Bog on September 24, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Sorry buddy, that’s just not the way it works. Go look at what happened to Japan in the 1990s. Multiply that by 10,000 and that’s what we have in store if we don’t clean the junk out of the system and restore liquidity very soon.
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Wow! I never thought about it that way. Hmmm.
ronsfi on September 24, 2008 at 9:52 AM
It’s the tune. This administration has never been about small government. That’s been my biggest problem with it. I was never pro Bush. He was simply not as bad as Gore or Kerry, who would have created even bigger government programs.
Bush’s 9-11 buget solution tells all. When it was obvious that government expenditures would rise tremendously, there were 2 obvious options. Trim other expenditures or raise taxes. GWB came out with what seemed to many to be a third option — Go shopping. In other words, keep spending money. That was simply a form of option 2: raise taxes. He (well, at least his advisors) knew that an economic contraction would lead to lower revenue and deficits. The only hope at avoiding contraction was to continue private sector spending, which keeps jobs in place and the government continues to collect it’s wage withholding. The home building boom, sparked by the programs that Ed discusses above, provided the economic engine. Afterall, American homes can’t be constructed in China. That bubble burst a year and a half or so ago and now we’re feeling the effects. This is not at all unlike the tech bubble that burst at the conclusion of Clinton’s presidency.
Ironic that the home building bubble was the bail out then but needs to be bailed out now.
EconomicNeocon on September 24, 2008 at 9:52 AM
True, but we were dealing with a product that was totally controlled by Chrysler. This bailout expects us to assume that the people whose goal is to enrich themselves, will simply “play nice” with this trillion dollar offering because it’s good for the tax payer. These same scumbags who ran the market into the ground cared not for the security of Americans. Nothing except replacing them with responsible persons will fix this.
But that isn’t what is happening. This is solely designed to protect the fortunes of the super wealthy who have been preying on Americans for years.
csdeven on September 24, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Typhoon on September 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM
That was my memory of the K-car era. They affordably suited American families before the early Ford Taurus did much later, and the Toyota/Honda sedans seem to do today.
Lee Iacocca was no evil despot.
maverick muse on September 24, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Or, As Rush put it yesterday, Paulson’s cronies are worried that they might have to move out the Hamptons and into Yonkers.
BigD on September 24, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Credit Default Swaps – the nut of the problem.
A Credit Default Swap (CDS) is a simple insurance policy. Suppose you lend $1 billion. You can buy “insurance” against the default of that loan. For example, you can buy a CDS for $200K per month. The seller of that CDS can sell their side of it to anybody… There may be contractual obligation for the “insured” to approve the transfer, but the CDS market is completely unregulated. At the end of the day, you have no idea of the credit worthiness of the person on the other end of your CDS.
Additionally, a completely uninterested (third) party can buy a CDS on that same $1 billion of debt…. sort of like betting on a basketball game. You go buy a $1 billion CDS and make the $200K payments betting that the debt defaults. The seller is betting that is doesn’t. Again, completely unregulated, so whoever sold you the CDS can sell their side to someone else (with your approval of the transfer if it’s in the contract). You have no guarantee the current holder is good for the $1 billion.
Now…
Market Sizes (2007):
Stock Market: $22 Trillion
Mortgage Market: $7.1 Trillion
US Treasuries Market: $4.4 Trillion
Credit Default Swaps: $45 Trillion
The top 25 banks hold more than $13 Trillion in CDS
AIGs original problem was an $11 billion write-down of CDS. That’s “billion”, not “trillion”. A drop in the bucket.
This is why Paulson wants to include essentially ALL debt in the proposal. CDS are sold on more than just mortgage debt.
This CDS segment is essentially what Bush tried to address in 2002 and the Senate bill S.190 in 2005. Try explaining this and selling it to the public.
A flim-flam on a multi-trillion dollar scale. When you look at the size of the CDS market compared to all of the others, you want our government to stay as far away from this as possible. The Soviet Union disappeared virtually overnight. We can too.
Avoid this at all costs.
CC
CapedConservative on September 24, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Why are they opposing the bailout again?
As a PR stunt obviously.
Hopefully these guys are smart enough to realize that if we don’t go forward with the bailout we will have a new GREAT DEPRESSION!
If they are not smart enough to realize that, they should be voted out of office.
SaintOlaf on September 24, 2008 at 9:57 AM
That is what happened. But only because they were committed to keeping the same philosophies in place.
I assert that what we need is a change in philosophies that allows the good old boys to end up panhandling on wall street. That system could be something along the lines of loaning this money to RESPONSIBLE investors or some other logical plan.
csdeven on September 24, 2008 at 9:58 AM
The Mark-to-Market rule could be suspended. The assests are still trash, but it allows these firms to hold on to the assets instead of requiring a bailout.
Similar exceptions may be required for pension funding requirements if stock prices fall.
The great depression has been traced to minimum wage laws and union contract laws that forced employers to fire workers whose productivity became less than their wages.
This suggestion from Dave Ramsey applies that lesson brilliantly.
I am to the right of Attila the Hun, and I approve this solution to the debt crisis.
Right_of_Attila on September 24, 2008 at 9:59 AM
HEY JOHN MCCAIN!!! Stop prancing around the issue and start nailing this economic mess to the foreheads of the people responsible, for crying out loud! This shouldn’t even be a question any longer! Nail them in the debates and throw OBambi into the hopper with them! Nail them in the ads! Nail them on the stump!
Remind the American people it’s going to be tough, but this bailout isn’t the way to cure the problem. We already know it, but we want to hear YOU say it.
AubieJon on September 24, 2008 at 9:59 AM
Your savings/investments, all our savings, including the cash you keep in the bank or in a money market account at someplace like Vanguard or Fidelity, is used by others when they borrow. Many firms rely on a constant and never ending supply of this short term borrowing to fund their daily operations.
While some of your savings may be in accounts that are insured by FDIC, the FDIC fund is VERY low, and could only pay a small portion of the deposits it actually covers. And generally speaking, non-bank investments aren’t insured at all.
If people begin to get the idea that their money isn’t safe, because their bank made bad loans, or because FDIC is insufficient, or because they don’t have any insurance where they have their money, they will move it elsewhere, or withdraw it. All of this was happening last week, and banks and funds were scrambling to get enough cash to meet huge withdrawals/transfers. There was no money available to institutions/companies that rely on the credit markets for their funding. They run/ran the risk of failing, causing other people they had contractual relations to of all kinds to be in trouble too, putting their employees at risk of unemployment, stopping producing a product or performing a vital market function. It’s all inter-related, the small guy, main street, and wall street.
There are many culprits and villains. But the truth is that some of these firms got to be so large, and so important to the smooth functioning of the rest of the economy, that they were too important to let fail. The system should not have been constructed like that, and politics played too large a part in financial markets. But that’s where we are, and how I see it.
You personally, trying to protect your own hard earned savings, by moving it to what you consider to be the safest place possible, can cause the economy as its currently connected, to seize up. And yet, who can blame you, or me, from trying to protect what we’ve worked for.
JiangxiDad on September 24, 2008 at 9:59 AM
I wish I didn’t know what I know.
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 10:00 AM
Congress needs a good delousing.
ronsfi on September 24, 2008 at 10:00 AM
The Republicans need to sit on their hands. They for once need to show they can learn from their mistakes.
Someone needs to tell them to be quiet and let the Democrats run wild with this. The economy will tank and tank badly for the next two years. Inflation will go up, as will unemployment NO MATTER WHAT LEGISLATION IS PASSED. The economy will tank.
The Democrats sat for four years offering no help or assistance or any legislation and just let the Republicans hang themselves. They knew if anything went wrong they could blame the Republicans. The GOP never caught on and they allowed themselves to be beat to death.
Now we need to repay the favor. Someone grab Demint and Shelby and tell them to just cool it.
The Dims have more then enough votes to pass their own legislation. Just sit back and watch it unfold. Then when the economy tanks the Democrats get to take all of the blame.
Just criticize that is all they need to do.
Jdripper on September 24, 2008 at 10:01 AM
here’s most of the best economists in the country advice not to rush into paulson’s plan.
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm
aso on September 24, 2008 at 10:01 AM
It really was a Ponzi scheme that was bound to end badly. The entire financial system became blind to the real risk of making so many loans to people with bad credit and no downpayments. They sliced and diced the loans to the point where they all told themselves with straight faces that they had laundered all the risk out of these loans, and that the remainder of risk had been priced correctly so that only the people who owned the risk would get hurt. Merrill Lynch is a big culprit here as they invented and pushed a lot of these exotic securities out to their clients and told them they were risk-free.
It makes me mad that Merrill Lynch gets to survive this, albeit now as part of Bank of America, while Lehman Bros. and Bear Stearns are gone.
rockmom on September 24, 2008 at 10:01 AM
Oh I ain’t claiming they’re similar situations at all. In fact that’s kind of my point.
That and that as a Mopar guy from waaaaaaaay back, I had to set the record straight.
Typhoon on September 24, 2008 at 10:01 AM
In light of the testimony, it appears no one has a very good grasp of what is going on in today’s economy…. In July they were all over steroids in baseball. I’m certain their time could have been spent a bit more wisely. When some in Congress are calling for the heads of CFO’s, perhaps they should be looking at each other’s performance, too. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Syd B. on September 24, 2008 at 10:02 AM
No kidding?
HA! I have been too busy here to listen to Rush in a couple of weeks, but I’m not surprised that I have come to the same conclusion that he has in that respect.
What is his solution? A total free market approach?
csdeven on September 24, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Another issue: If this bailout goes through, it is going to be open season in D.C. forever and beyond. Because the Detroit automakers already have their hands out, the airlines are probably licking their palms (no offense to Piper Palin), and I can see 50 (or 57) cash-strapped state governments with unfunded pension obligations lining up behind them.
BigD on September 24, 2008 at 10:03 AM
The administration, Fed Reserve, and Treasury say the sky is falling.
Is it?
Causes everyone to pause and consider.
However, it is the 4th remedy to ‘fix’ the problem. The other remedies did not work. Each remedy gets more expensive.
My take is they don’t really know, and want broad power and money to throw at it. They are afraid of political fingerpointing in hindsight, so just throw 1 Trillion dollars at it.
Shameful leadership. Warren Buffett is not stupid and senses the bottom and invests. Deal with problems piecemeal. Plenty of broad FDIC and Fed Window money powers. Some will make it, some won’t.
I am suspicious like DeMint. Most banks are too small to be on the “Too Big To Fail List” so they hatch broad money and power to bail them all.
I am suspicious enough to let the system work and those that fail — fail. If FDIC needs more, then give it more. But it is then a known amount and not 1 Trillion dollars!!
Starlink on September 24, 2008 at 10:03 AM
OK, gotcha. Sorry, but I am absolutely INCENSED about this BS their trying to ram down our throats. I ran a business for 15 years and I stayed within my bounds. I did not EVER expect anyone else to bail me out because I made poor decisions.
csdeven on September 24, 2008 at 10:04 AM
I don’t think he’s taken a position per se other than to explain the background, and the parties and roles involved.
BigD on September 24, 2008 at 10:05 AM
He just said he wouldn’t invest a penny if he didn’t believe the Gov was going to do this plan. P
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Lets also consider what jobs will be lost……
Most jobs will be safe because credit will be provided by NEW PEOPLE WHO ARE FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE!
The jobs that will go away are those of the lousy scum that purposely created AND profited from this scam.
SCREW THEM! THEY CAN BURN IN FINANCIAL HELL!
csdeven on September 24, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Stupid me. I went and waited until I could afford a mortgage to buy a condo.
If only I’d done what everyone else did, the government would be bailing me out now.
Meryl Yourish on September 24, 2008 at 10:08 AM
By the way, if anyone watched the hearng yesterday, Sen. Dodd did give a shout-out to Sens. Allard and Bunning for holding a hearing way back in 2006 that explored the growing market for exotic mortgages and the foreclosure boom that was already starting to hit Colorado. That was in September of 2006. They beat up on the Fed and the bank regulators pretty badly to get them to crack down on these crazy loans. I went back after this hearing and told my company that it should stop doing these loans ASAP. It didn’t. That’s where all the profit was, and as long as those loans could be sold we were going to keep making them. It wasn’t until January of 2007 that the bank regulators finally came out with new guidelines that required banks to verify borrowers’ income and ability to pay. And after that, companies like mine that were not banks continued to make these bad loans for quite a while until the bottom fell out.
rockmom on September 24, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I just heard Sen. DeMint on the Glenn Beck show. The passage above doesn’t really explain why he is against this bailout. In essence he believes if this bailout passes, we will be passing a point of no return on the road to socialism. He made the point that once the government gets involved in something, they never get out. We would be selling out our freedom. It’s going to be painful either way, I for one prefer relative short term pain to perpetual government control over the credit market.
Call me crazy, but times like these lead to authoritarianism. Rather than being gripped with fear, the American people need to get back to founding principles. We must once again become responsible for ourselves. We must get engaged and hold the Washington stooges accountable or we won’t recognize this country in five years. I would prefer to live through hard times, even a thirties-style depression, as a free man than to live in prosperity with government control over my life.
flyfisher on September 24, 2008 at 10:12 AM
It doesn’t matter what Rush,Newt or any other idealogue who doesn’t understand the economy says..
If the Government does not step in and become the guarantor of debt, lending will DRY UP and we will have the worst depression anyone has ever seen!
It could get really bad…like people will start revolutions bad.
If small businesses cannot get credit lines or loans, do you understand how many people will be laid off?
6 out of every 10 people!!
In the great depression, the unemployment rate was about 1 out of 4 or 25%…
Now compare that to 60% unemployment and maybe you will begin to understand how bad it could get if we do not step in.
SaintOlaf on September 24, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Did you guys know that McCain campaign manager was on Freddie Mac’s payroll until Freddie itself was taken over by the gummint?
factoid on September 24, 2008 at 10:13 AM
An exception to the Mark-to-Market rule should require footnotes in financial reports.
This allows investors to know which companies are burdened with bad assets on the balance sheet. Such companies would have lower stock prices, but not have to go bankrupt.
Once the company is cheap enough to buy, the new company has a sound balance sheet. The former company’s stockholders lose, but the markets would stay liquid.
Right_of_Attila on September 24, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Schumer is a schmuck but he just said something that some of you need to get your head around on what the ripple affects are:
The Auto Industry just said at least 6 millions fewer cars will be sold this year becuase it’s next to impossible to get an auto loan right now unless you have perfect credit. That means fewer auto workers. That means fewer parts manufacturers. That means fewer dealerships. Than means more mortgage defaults, etc, etc. If people think a crash in the credit markets will only affect the fat cats they simply don’t understand how the financial world works.
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Beat it troll… grownups are trying to talk here.
CC
CapedConservative on September 24, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Malkin on FOX now, talking about Rusty.
Weight of Glory on September 24, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Ben Stein’s article is the best I have seen at explaining the problem.
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/109609;_ylt=AihYXGa_2tf9PJDeCl.2G0S7YWsA
The default on mortgages by itself did not create this problem.
huckleberryfriend on September 24, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Hmmmm… hate to say it but isn’t there a fundamental problem with the whole housing loan industry anyway?
My 30 year fixed is at 4.75% interest. If inflation is running at 4% a company only sees a .75% real return on their investment… not really worth it as an investment vehicle.
One problem is that interst rates are too low for any reasonable company to sit on these, which is why Freddie and Fannie HAVE to be there, to hold these mortgages.
Romeo13 on September 24, 2008 at 10:17 AM
GREAT MEN AND WOMEN RISE TO THE OCCASION. Moments of crisis define who is truly a great statesman and who is a mere squatter placing all interests on self-serving opportunity at the demise of the whole.
At this moment, given this Congressional Crisis resulting from corruption, WE HAVE THE UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY WITHIN OUR GRASP to excise the corrupting legislation from the books, deny gropers the right to pillage and pick-pocket from taxpayers, and get on with FREE ENTERPRISE, stronger for facing the battle and winning back our rights from the usurping Feds rather than duck and run or bow down in obedience to financial slavery. Let the chips fall.
Don’t use silly putty bail-outs to stop avalanches.
Clear out the corrupting excesses that created the danger and that enables such renegade disaster from our legislation on the books. No more “do-gooder” compassionate ubertard mentality to rule us into oblivious hell.
A commenter @ Ace last week said that a Depression is what enables the likes of you and me to invest at ground level to become extremely wealthy in time. Depressions bring hardship but only for a time. Buck up. We’re not in a Depression today, and the threat is being bantered to use your fears to seduce your approval of further abuse from Federals denying your opportunities to do well by forcing you into national debtors prison.
maverick muse on September 24, 2008 at 10:17 AM
I hear ya, man. Truth is the Chrysler bailout has been a philosophical tug-of-war for me for years. As a conservative, I agree it never should have happened. But as a Mopar guy with a Hemi Magnum in the driveway, I’m glad it did.
But you know what? the fact of the matter is we’re all guilty in this mess. Every single one of us.
We all knew what was going on. Now everyone’s pointing fingers and standing up on their hindlegs and acting outraged and…who knows what will work or if anything will?
All I really know is that the bottom line is like any other financial situation, there are really only two options: We can either produce our way out of it, or we can shrink to the new reality.
No different than if you’re running a business and you lose a big customer. You can either cut back to fit the scope of what’s left, or you can aggressively court new business.
For forty damn years now we’ve left producing to someone else, while we pretended we were still rich by refinancing our houses. If we want to try to keep that up, this swirl will take us right down the bowl. If we wise up and create a climate of opportunity and remember that the true currency of the world right now is energy, this could all turn out to be an awakening and a blessing.
Typhoon on September 24, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Problem is there is no market. The pros who understand all the complexities already have ZERO confidence in any of it. They don’t believe each other. Footnotes or accounting gimmicks aren’t going to fix fundamental liquidity problems. The plaque needs to be cleaned out of all the atteries where it can be dealt with over time.
TheBigOldDog on September 24, 2008 at 10:18 AM
These Repub Senators, Shelby and DeMint are joining a growing list of folks who recognize the obvious.
This group is comprised of folks who believe in capitalism and the free markets. I have no doubt that the package put together by Paulson and Bernanke, with the sludge that Congress will add, will appear to work. The history of such intervention these last 30 years says as much.
However my reason for being against all these bailouts, starting with Chrysler, is not what they do but what they prevent. They prevent Adam Smith’s secret hand from functioning. They prevent the only real permanent solution. It is with great hubris that the powers that be think they can divine the cure for previous excesses.
The market must be allowed to function without interference no matter what fears an individual may ascribe to its solutions. It’s the blockage of this process that, among other things, creates the often quoted “moral hazard”. Every time we intervene we set up and even larger set of dominoes in the future.
Any embrace of this bailout, no matter how timid, is a reflection of your distrust in a free market. Way, way down deep you need the assurance that a small group of people are capable of figuring out what the free market wants or needs at certain way points. You console yourself with the dark apocalyptic visions–a great Depression– that may occur should you not go along with the “new” deal. You will rationalize why, just this once, it had to be done.
That’s how you trot down Friedrich Hayek’s road to serfdom.
That said there is something Congress can do, today, right now.They can strike down the mark-to-market accounting mandated in the Sarbanes-Oxley bill that grew out of Congress’s feeble attempt to prevent another Enron. As you can see they created a monster a billion times bigger. The law of unintended consequences. Let it be a warning.
From Megan McArdle:
or explained even further here:
http://tinyurl.com/4cowt4
While no one thing will solve a decades old problem this simple step will take the pressure off banks etc running around begging for money they actually don’t need.
And finally here’s a list of economists who are saying slow down about this…
http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm
patrick neid on September 24, 2008 at 10:18 AM
What do you think of Thad McCotter’s alternative to Paulson’s plan? http://www.americanprowler.com/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13933
onlineanalyst on September 24, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Paulson has enough money that he can afford to work for a government salary. Much of the wealth held by the very rich has already fled the market creating a historically unprecedented amount of money “on the sidelines”. Paulson’s Wall Street friends in most cases have enough money in government bonds to live in luxury on just the interest.
dedalus on September 24, 2008 at 10:20 AM
flyfisher @10:12
And authoritarianism is EXACTLY what Obama brings.
maverick muse on September 24, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Fine, but try getting them to agree to a solution. I can think of many of their colleagues, equally qualified economists, who are on board (e.g. Mark Gertler from NYU was on Bloomberg the other morning, saying not to worry, press ahead).
The broader credit markets cannot be allowed to fail. The real economy will be hit hard if they do. We have to get the pig out of the python.
DrSteve on September 24, 2008 at 10:21 AM
Well, I’m pretty sure Rush was making a joke.
BigD on September 24, 2008 at 10:22 AM
The last depression brought the greatest expansion of government into the economy that the country had ever seen. I wasn’t a victory for independent free markets.
dedalus on September 24, 2008 at 10:23 AM
There cost of funds to loan the money isn’t the inflation rate… it’s lower. Not a valid comparison.
CC
CapedConservative on September 24, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Dude, that’s lunacy!
Imagine the credit markets seizing up..small businesses will be unable to get credit and will have to lay off most of their employees or go out of business.
This a different economy nowadays…we are not on the gold standard. The government HAS to step in and become the guarantor of debt and keep the loans coming or the entire economy will collapse!
If the credit markets seize up..we’ll be looking at a 60% unemployment rate!!
Does that sound like a good thing to you?
Everybody homeless..wandering the streets looking to steal and kill for food?
There will be riots on the streets and revolution.
SaintOlaf on September 24, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Right, we are not on the gold standard… it’s based on the full faith and credit of the United States of America. Damage that and we WILL be back on the gold standard because our credit as a country will be sh*t.
Do Not Do This. $45 trillion in credit default swaps is a pill we cannot swallow and keep afloat.
CC
CapedConservative on September 24, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Let the wildfire burn away the deadwood.
LimeyGeek on September 24, 2008 at 10:29 AM
Do away with capital gains and Corp. taxes, its one helluva lot cheaper than the bureaucracy and the corruption that a bailout would bring, the socialists in congress and the administration can keep their septic paws off our guaranteed right to a Republican form of government.
Speakup on September 24, 2008 at 10:29 AM
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