She was treated and released without any problems. I recall standing there as her doctor told her she was free to go. She could not get over not having to sign anything or pay anything given the length of her stay.

She could not get over the fact that they were a bunch of suckers? Seriously, why are bragging that your friend who does not pay taxes in the UK and by all accounts is not indigent, got free care? That’s dishonest.

zmrzlina on September 23, 2008 at 6:50 PM

That’s why you buy health insurance. Jeesh! Also, I have no deductible for ER or hospitalization with my plan. YMMV.

nurses would not make 50K – 70K. Doctors would make that amount, but their medical school costs would be financed. Nurses would make a salary on par with the sinking salaries of their patients.

Nurses making 50k – 70k are probably working overtime and I don’t think that is unreasonable at all. The nurse actually cares for the patients all day long, while the doctor visits once or twice a day.

By the way, I would never agree not to sue a hospital or a doctor if they screwed up and I’m not at all sure your insurance company would agree to cover you if you did. (I think your medical insurance policy probably has rights of subrogation, where your insurance company can recover their costs if your doctor/hospital screws up.)

My fantasy is a State law that would allow a new type of voluntary hospital care. These special hospitals would treat only patients who had filed iron clad documents of agreement that they would not sue the hospital or practioners for malpractice. If a mistake was made medically, the hospital would have to pick up the costs of continued treatment according to the advice of a state commission. However that treatment would only be given at hospitals participating in the program. Doctors would be fully liable for criminal malpractice.

Practitioners would be off the hook for lawsuits. However, at these hospitals, nurses would not make 50K – 70K. Doctors would make that amount, but their medical school costs would be financed. Nurses would make a salary on par with the sinking salaries of their patients.

The declining wage base of America is being crushed by the non declining wages and costs in medicine

These dream hospitals would be obviously not the top tier but they might be available to those who now have to wait until they qualify for ER to get the operation and then forfeit their homes. The state could negotiate with insurers to pay less not more money to those hospitals for treatments, if the insurer will offer policies at lower cost to participants

I know more than one person now who wishes they could legally get treatment for themselves at the local vets, which would be better than nothing and a whole lot cheaper

I would pay $50 a year for a license to let my vet give me a shot of antibiotics it has gotten that bad

I hate socialized medicine. I worked for gov. It is a monster. But the lawyer driven money wringing system we have now is crushing people in the lower half while the politicians use our private system to pay for the bottom, the illegals, and their best friends the lawyers.

Here the bums are kings. In socialized medicine everyone is a bum. There has to be a middle

How well would the free market work in buying cars if no dealer was willing to give you a price or tell you the details of the car? That’s very similar to how our health care system works.

I think the US system has been dragged down by frivolous lawsuits. If we had tort reform that limited malpractice legal action, etc, then the cost of medical care would come down, since a great deal of the overhead that doctors in America must deal with is malpractice insurance. I agree that most medical advances are coming out of the USA and that it is due to the free market, and certainly I don’t want to see it stop.

The only thing I’d say is that a lot of the conservatives who advocate the current US system as the best haven’t actually had to deal with catastrophe themselves and requisite bill collectors and insurance agents who by their nature don’t give a rat’s ass about your personal well-being, since they are for-profit ventures. There’s something a bit dubious about mixing profit with people’s health, and I don’t see it as a bad thing for the government to be involved in the health of its citizens. Semi-socialized systems like Germany or Australia could be a good compromise.

I have lived in both systems, and I know which one I would choose as things stand now. Right now the US system is out of control, and it will take a strong hand to guide it back to sanity. I really hope that it happens.

BTW I was sure I’d get called a troll for my post, and I’m glad to see that I haven’t been :)

To a communist, there is pure communism, and everything else is a form of capitalism.

zmrzlina on September 23, 2008 at 6:50 PM

My middle son has required expensive monthly treatments at Children’s Hospital in DC basically since birth. There was never any question whether it would be covered by private insurance. No one ever gave us a hard time over it. We have an FSA that is fully funded with our elected amount on day 1 of the calendar year, and we use this to cover copays and deductibles.

We are moving to an HSA but my firm still plans to fully cover the deductible.

American health care isn’t perfect, but we can do better than both the Canadians and the Brits do. Vigorous competition by nonprofit insurers would be a start.

If you are a 50 year old sedentary slob, smoker, or ride a motorcycle – you should have super high rates.

You know what is really driving up health care costs today? Obesity and the related effects (diabetes, heart disease, cancer). Now people want the government (i.e., you the taxpayer) to pay to treat people who fail at life and fail at being healthy? Hogwash.

The only thing the government needs is a catastrophic fund to cover illnesses and trauma that is out of the hands of individuals. Being born with a genetic disorder, that is in no way your fault, should not cause you to be bankrupt.

Let people work directly with doctors or specialists to lower costs, without using a third party. Allow wavers for common exams and procedures to decline malpractice suits in case something goes wrong.

Keep the government away from health care as much as possible. I use Tricare (military run government health care) and it is ok on somethings, but good luck getting anything done quickly. There is a lot of waiting. Forget about seeing a specialist in short order.

What’s truly needed is a shift away from comprehensive insurance care to a combination of catastrophic coverage partnered with tax-free HSAs that would allow people to choose from truly competing providers for what’s known as primary care.

Insurance in all forms is a scam. For an insurance company to make a profit, it must take in more money than it pays out. Therefore, each customer must pay more for his policy than he gets back in benefits. The bottom line is that when we buy insurance, we pay more than we get back. That will never make for cheaper medical bills.

Healthcare will never be affordable until Medicare goes away.

bloggless on September 23, 2008 at 10:34 PM

Great way you put that. True! :)

An older British friend of mine disagrees w/you. He was involved in a serious car accident where a very drunk driver ran an intersection and plowed into his side of the car. He was left w/many serious injuries. Complete reconstruction of his left arm and ankle. Ugly. He was told, “you are in your 50s, they don’t like to give this aggressive treatment to older people b/c it is better used on younger people.” He received the physical therapy he deserved b/c of his grit and determination to be afforded the best that was available and was a complete pain in the ass to the NHS until he got it. He tells of many tales of rationed care however due to age. He and his wife now keep private insurance in addition to the crazy amount they pay for their “Free” healthcare w/the NHS. He is not a big fan. Althought he says he received excellent care, he had to fight tooth and nail to get it b/c of his age.

My point is most people living in a structured environment will eventually begin to think of that environment as favorable, whether it actually is or not.
darwin on September 23, 2008 at 7:04 PM

That cuts both ways. FM or National health care. A lot of Mericans are having second thoughts now that the FM economy is tanking.

In just three years, $500+ million was spent for immigrant care in Harris county, Texas, according to the Harris County Medical System…

HornetSting on September 23, 2008 at 7:04 PM

Exactly! In the U.S. if you are illegal, you are not expected to pay for medical costs. Let 1 American citizen try that! Illegals get free health care and U.S. citizens pay for it through higher hospital costs. Illegals cannot be traced to pay their bills as they move every 6 months. They all have the same names. They are impossible to trace. But if you or I were in a hospital and couldn’t pay our bills, the hospital would be able to find us because we are honorable, tax paying citizens who pay our bills on time. We waste billions of dollars on people who come into this country illegally. Thousands of California hospitals (not to mention Texas, Arizona, and Colorado hospitals) have closed because of this influx of illegals. Don’t get me started on the Mexican nationals on our border cities who come across to have their babies. We Americans are being snookered by the Mexican government.

The German system is different from the British system, hpng420, and different from what Obama and the Dems are pushing

Thy’ve managed to keep some aspects of choice on a local basis, and keep costs down better than the NHS

Janos Hunyadi

Yes, I should have been more clear. My view is that the UK and Canadian systems are lousy, but…we are kidding ourselves if we think we have the best system. It is much better than the UK’s.

I think the Swiss have the best system, followed by the Netherlands, and then maybe Germany.

It warms the coccles.

We need more free market in this system, not less.
Ed Morrissey

I am a fan of Ed Morrissey’s posts, but, I think this subject is a moot point.

As a member of the hospital profession, I agree with Ed and I wish we had more free market options (like Medical IRAs) in this country.

But illegal immigration, and the next amnesty for tens of millions of future Democrat socialized medicine voters, will make this topic a moot point.

Illegal immigration, and the accompanying amnesty ( 6 amnesties since 1986 according to http://www.numbersUSA), is the quickest way to Socialized medicine in this country.

It is just a matter of time.

Would you rather have the most attentive and consistent of care and get forced into bankruptcy, or would you rather have more efficiency, less cost — and get ignored or worse while fighting to get attention?

False choice. Just because because government doesn’t pay for your health care does not mean one has to be forced into bankruptcy. People pay for all sorts of unexpected expenses themselves without being driven into bankruptcy, but for some reason, if it’s a medical expense, the only option is bankruptcy.

BS.

Having said that, if it’s a matter of saving my life and facing bankruptcy or suffering needlessly and possibly dying(but hey,it’s free,right?),I’ll take the first. Costs aren’t always measured in dollars and cents. I can come back from bankruptcy; I can’t come back from the grave.