Gingrich: Kill the Paulson bailout plan; Update: Reid to GOP: Vote with us or we won’t pass it; Update: 57% support bailout, says Pew
posted at 3:30 pm on September 23, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Like Ross Douthat, I’m wholly unqualified to comment intelligently on this subject so I humbly offer a few links to those of you who are. Here’s the report of Newt’s presser this morning stressing that the sky is not, in fact, falling and that Paulson’s plan will be seen as such a loser in six weeks that McCain should come out hard against it now and pin it to Obama. There’s some logic in that — the public is notably cool to it — but needless to say, if the plan doesn’t pass and the market crashes, that’ll put Maverick (among others) in a bit of a spot. Any reason to believe that a crash is really possible? Yes indeed if you believe Paulson and Bernanke, who spent last week putting the fear of God into congressional Democrats and this morning doing the same to House Republicans. Newt offered his own plan over the weekend at the Corner, but I’d recommend reading these two posts by Megan McArdle before jumping boots first into the ideologically pure “let ‘em fail” position. In a strange way, this reminds me of the Iraq debate in reverse: We’re faced with what may or may not be a looming threat of mass destruction, except this time conservatives are willing to chance it rather than take costly, aggressive preemptive action. Maybe they’re right; as I say, my ignorance on this leaves me unable to judge. But here’s your exit quotation from McArdle, emphasizing that we’re looking at a nuclear scenario if they’re wrong: “There is no benefit from a ‘tough love’ strategy for anyone that even begins to approach the catastrophic consequences, for everyone, of a massive and rapid contraction.”
Update: Democrats worry that McCain will take Newt’s advice:
Senior Democrats on the Hill are worried that Sen. McCain will “demagogue” the bill, continue to voice opposition to it, use it to run against both Wall Street and Congress as well as to distance himself from the Bush White House. Democrats worry McCain will not only vote against the bill, he will provide cover for other Republicans to do so, leaving Democrats holding the bag for the Bush administration’s deeply unpopular proposal.
A Democratic congressional leadership source says that Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson went so far as to assure Democratic leaders that McCain “won’t be a problem” — in other words that McCain will vote for the proposal.
Update: Further to the last update, Reid’s not going to let the left take the rap the Bush administration’s foray into socialism:
“This is a Republican proposal, and we need some Republican votes,” to help it pass. “At this stage we [Democrats] are working with ourselves.”
Reid is essentially calling the Republican bluff on a political gambit. There’s a growing chorus of Republicans in both chambers _ especially House conservatives _ who would love to yell about the bailout and vote against it knowing it will pass. In this strategy, Republicans will be able to hit the campaign trail and boast about how they’ve voted against the Bush administration and Democratic Congress while protecting Main Street.
But Democrats aren’t going to let that strategy fly.
House Minority Whip James Clyburn says his leaders are not going to push through a bill that only passes with Democratic votes either…
“We now need Republicans to stand up,” Reid said. “We need the Republican nominee for president to say what he’s for.”
Update: The Democrats are refining their position further to protect Obama from being outflanked: McCain has to vote with them or else the bill’s dead.
Update: Good luck squaring this with the Rasmussen poll I linked above, but Pew has no less than 57 percent of the public onboard with the Paulson plan. And guess which party’s membership is most gung ho.

If McCain and House Republicans needed an extra little prod to sign on with Paulson and Reid, there it is. Although from what Richard Shelby and Jim Bunning — and Sherrod Brown — told Paulson and Bernanke today, I wouldn’t expect passage by an overwhelming majority.
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I have a hard time thinking that many House members are going to want to be on record supporting this bailout right before Election Day.
BigD on September 23, 2008 at 4:08 PM
I hope McCain comes out against the bailout.
Enoxo on September 23, 2008 at 4:08 PM
I’m not drifting into anything. Don’t add words to what I say.
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:08 PM
dedalus :
I would love, love, love to vote out Dodd- but I live in the very blue state of CT and that will never happen. But I can always be hopeful!
kareyk on September 23, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Beat me to the punch.
RINO in Name Only on September 23, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Recession vs. socialism. Which one is temporary? Which promotes individual accountability? Which is compatible with free markets?
There has to be a major correction in the mortgage industry. Even with the bailout, we may still experience recession. The American taxpayer will pay either way and Social Security reform is nigh impossible now.
Pick your poison but understand that one is likely lethal.
Terrie on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Doesn’t the government also make sure that auto makers don’t produce cars that explode when taped on the rear bumper by another car? I don’t see this as being socialism as others claim. Or don’t claim but make the claim and then deny the claim. Whatever.
wise_man on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 PM
The Paulson Plan or what ever you want to call it……will not work!
If this piece of garbage passes I have some advice for everyone, cover your ass and stock up on the Morning After Pill because you are about to get screwed….BIG TIME.
Carry on……………………
Old Hippie Vet on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 PM
clean coal… out the window
gasoline …. out the window
food……… out the window
housing…… out the window
living on the street cold and hungry… for the Federal Government.. priceless!
upinak on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 PM
That sure all sounds like the politicians don’t give a rip about America, but just care about how this will all look and play out for them. The only reason that they are hesitating seems to be because they don’t seem to have a solid clue. But then, what else is new.
MB4 on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Dittos to seeing Newt on Greta last night.
I liked the idea of getting the Reaganites in and crafting a solution WITHOUT Paulson and Bernanke. He is right that Paulson has been wrong ever single time; so why let this man in charge of $700 billion? If there has to be a fix for now to keep things from crashing then the GOP needs to add to this lifting the ban on drilling, revoking S/O, and lifting the capital gains tax . The Dems are busy adding everything but the kitchen sink to this monster! McCain should come out on that fact alone! Bailing out car loans!
Newt can be a deranged little leprechaun at times, ie global warming, but for the most part he is dead on, and the President would be wise to listen to him and the same goes for Congress. Pence and Bunting deserve some kudos for sticking their necks out.
AND nothing needs to be signed until Dodd, and Frank are removed from all this! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO LEARN HOW TO GO ON THE OFFENSE!!!!! It is like Rush says, there has to be heavy, guilty Dems on this or they would not be pushing for this to be swept under the rug. THEY MUST PAY!!!!!!
freeus on September 23, 2008 at 4:09 PM
Republicans!!!!Call the Bluff!!!!
PappaMac on September 23, 2008 at 4:10 PM
That’s the point. Evaporating Credit, bank runs, etc. It’s all part the deflationary downward spiral. It happened in the Great Depression. It can happen again if captial dries up.
phronesis on September 23, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Kill the bail out, printing more money will make our dollar weaker, driving the Oil futures higher, thus not only making US pay for the $700 Billion but also making us pay for inflated Oil prices and everything that goes along with that.. higher gas prices, higher food prices, everything you buy at the stores, everything in our economy is tied to Oil.. and Oil is tied to the strength of the US Dollar.
So, what we need to do, Kill or extremely limit the bail out at least cut it into or 1/3 or 1/4 of the size it is now.. 175 Billion maybe.. let the markets work
Then, We need to Totally Ramp UP ALL Oil(Including ANWR, and all the natural gas),Oil shale, Clean Coal, and More New Nuclear Power plants Here in the United States, More Refineries, more wind, solar, new technologies, conservation ALL OF IT.. the ALL OF THE ABOVE PLAN.
Lower Corporate Tax dramatically and drastically(that will increase investment from home and abroad, create new business and create more jobs)
Lower the Capital Gains Tax again that will increase investments and create more revenues..
Increasing the Energy sector and new development will create Lots of new jobs, and new investment, people will start to invest in raw materials(because things need to be built), this would be be a huge boom industry and would get us off of foreign energy and would held our markets all at the same time..
Chakra Hammer on September 23, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Emergency psychology makes poor policy.
Valiant on September 23, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Oh, I agree. Unfortunately, we can’t vote them out on this issue. And like I’ve said before, once Congress spends money, no one has the political balls to “un-spend” it.
genso on September 23, 2008 at 4:10 PM
You don’t seem to grasp the nature of the problem: the derivatives market and other complex financial instruments related to credit default swaps. Before you demand change, you might want to demand the right change. This article by Ben Stein does a good job of explaining the real problem.
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/109609;_ylt=AmJL5yLlP9wyva.XUgnMWDi7YWsA
Glenn Beck is a certified fraud and idiot who will say anything that the thinks will appeal to his listening audience.
foreverright on September 23, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Let it die.
Topsecretk9 on September 23, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Looks like the Paulson Plan might be facing pressure from both sides of the aisle:
FOXNEWS.COM
Loxodonta on September 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM
IF THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT WANT IT IN THEIR NAME, IT IS AN AWFUL BILL!
Conservatives need to only remember that fact alone to know that this bill/deal should fail. The Democrats and GOP love to give DC more power when they can, and this will be one of the largest grabs by DC in a century.
If the Democrats do not want to have it “in their name” than it is obvious that it is a pile of stinking $h!t that needs to be D.O.A.
What is needed is a whole lot LESS of DC and not more.
Voidseeker on September 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM
A game of chicken. Brilliant. I’m glad the Democrats don’t take their legislative duties lightly. Har-har.
Seixon on September 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Kill… then drill!
db on September 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Making sure Pintos weren’t bombs was a safety issue.
Explain the gas efficiency requirements.
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and then applying the wrong remedies.
- Groucho
MB4 on September 23, 2008 at 4:13 PM
I don’t have the financial background to debate this issue from an economic position, but let me add this.
If you gave your life savings to a company run by 2 men, and those 2 men lost every penny of your money, and never told you that you were losing that money so you could make other decisions…then those very same 2 men came to you and said, give us more money, but I don’t know how much, just more, and we can probably fix this problem.
Would you???
right2bright on September 23, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Another issue none of the experts has addressed is the inflationary impact of this. This would roughly double the deficit for at least two to four years, and suddenly the ARM mortgages that are being paid current may become less so as their rates jack up.
Vashta.Nerada on September 23, 2008 at 4:13 PM
We’re getting ready to provide $25 billion in low-interest loans to the industry this week alone and then there’s this.
And more here.
amerpundit on September 23, 2008 at 4:13 PM
I can only repeat my earlier post: If this specific bailout plan is so inarguably vital, why isn’t the president on national TV making his case? Why isn’t the president taking the case to the people, who will pay the bill, instead of Congress?
This tells me something.
BigD on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Democrats are trying to turn this against Repbulicans, they want to be able to say that the GOP turned socialist, which they know the base hates with every measure.
They need to kill bill.
Enoxo on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Kill AT LEAST 1/2 of it then drill!
Chakra Hammer on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
I think this poster gets it.
I don’t think this one does.
toliver on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
I guess the problem isn’t too serious, or they’d be working together more. Since its devolved into a bipartisan mess, that means the free market wins again. Yes!
lorien1973 on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Herein lies the rub:
I think most members of the House know that the bailout is probably better than the alternative. But if they vote for it, we’ll never know how bad it could get, so politicians won’t get any credit for averting a crisis.
And if they vote against it, and things do deteriorate, they’ll get the blame.
This is why things run so smoothly in dictatorships.
YYZ on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
I heard on a local radio show today that the bailout is going to be used to shore up retired government workers pension plans. That’s it. Period. State and local governments all of the country lost their asses in the FM&FM and AIG failures etc. Their pension funds are gone and will not be sending checks out very soon.
This bailout is from the taxpayer, to the government, for the government, and all their benefits they drain from us on a daily basis.
Newt is right about drilling, and he’s right about this. NO BAILOUT.
roninacreage on September 23, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Wow! Isn’t this something? The DEMS are big chicken $hits. Haven’t they been trying to tell us they have all the answers? Since 2000 when Al Gore LOST and they all lost their freakin’ minds they’ve tried to tell us they have all the answers and now they’re afraid to take a stand? How revealing.
I’m not sure if this is the case, but if both sides are displeased with the plan, why don’t they present their recommendations to the POTUS? What? Both sides dislike it but for different reasons? What a freakin’ mess. Honestly at this point, I trust Newt. I say do what Newt says.
Oink on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Well, if you do that you’re only going to look foolish at the end of the day. Again, you don’t seem to understand why this crisis occurred. Ineffective regulation of Freddie and Fanny were only a small part of the problem. The SEC is responsible for regulating derivate products, not the Congress.
Ben Stein is not a Democrat:
http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/yourlife/109609;_ylt=AmJL5yLlP9wyva.XUgnMWDi7YWsA
foreverright on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
All these politicians are dithering while trying to come up with whatever their positions of record were on fannie and freddie. Nobody wants the stink of this turd on them.
At this point, it’s time for some facts on who knew what and when did they know it, followed by every elected official up for re-election getting voted out of office.
Let’s let some fresh faces like Palin, (not that I think she’s all that) that come from the grass roots of America take over.
How could they do any worse than the bunch we have now?
swami on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
If Reid is demanding McCain vote for it or they won’t pass it, looks like gut check time for the maverick and the GOP. Do the right thing, John.
a capella on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
And the government writing blank checks to the people who started this isn’t going to help either. This is not 1927 where a simple supply-demand relationship existed with no government intervention. At the time, government investment brought us to equilibrium. The problem is, we already have that now. Therefore, more government money will not solve the problem.
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
This is gonna be interesting.
lodge on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
To be honest, I think all the bailout is going to do is buy time anyway–the whole structure is just too unstable–it’s going to collapse regardless of who is elected president this coming election.
My big concern here is though–would it be better to take the hit now or buy time only to have an even bigger meltdown later? For any sort of bailout to work, it would need individuals monitoring it who are not vested in the corruption that brought this mess about in the first place–that means no to Obama, Dodd, Biden, and anyone else who has been tainted by Fannie, Freddie, AIG, or the others. What I’m hearing here is that the Democrats want to load this bill up with even more spending–I’m not seeing the logic in this.
Something similar to this happened on two different occasions in the 18th century. In the 1720s, the Bank of England suffered a meltdown when the South Seas Bubble burst with the people running the scheme taking everyone’s money and hightailing it out of Britain before they could be hanged. Parliament ended up underwriting the debt and managed to pay it off. In the 1740s, the French Mississippi Valley Company also imploded because of crooked speculators. The French government was holding most of the notes and ended up holding the bag. It went bankrupt and the French national banking system didn’t recover until the 19th century. To an extent, I can see parallels in these situations to what we’re dealing with here. My question is: if the government does end up toting the note, are we going to end up with a successful resolution ala the South Seas Bubble, or are we going to get another Mississippi Valley Company debacle?
Matt Helm on September 23, 2008 at 4:15 PM
I think the 700 billion will give a whole lot of crooks enough time to liquidate everything they have and buy gold for when the depression hits next January.
peacenprosperity on September 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Officially its called prior restraint, but some call it nanny state, some call it socialism. I was merely pointing out that whenever the government offers you something, a price has to be paid.
Vashta.Nerada on September 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM
This is one time when McCain can call their bluff and destroy them.
meci on September 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Certified huh? Mind linking the organization that certifies frauds?
Snark aside, you obviously have no clue about Glenn Beck or his show. He has taken MANY stances on his show throughout his national career that have been against the shows best interests and have pissed off his fans. He took them because it is what he believes.
It would be advisable to keep mum on subjects that you have little to no knowledge about to keep from looking ignorant/uninformed.
Voidseeker on September 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Good Lord, you’re going to force me to explain this to you now??
You said:
And my reply was:
Socialism is the government controlling all industry. It can’t be socialism if the government is only “controlling” 5% of one industry, and regulating other industries in a manner that has to do with public safety. Not production, such as ordering companies to manufacture a billion rice cookers that no one wants to buy. You are copping out with the “don’t put words in my mouth” bit again. This is your old habit when the conversation goes in a way you don’t want, so have fun advocating the newt rescue plan of allowing this economy to crash so we will learn a lesson. Have fun. Bye.
wise_man on September 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM
This is like social security…no one wants to get there hands dirty and leave all the blame to the worst president evva. Pretty sad. Carry on Mr. President…you are alone in a forest of madness.
tomas on September 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM
You know, it is really as simple as that despite all those who claim that it is too complicated to fail. Nothing is guaranteed in life and no one can hold up an economy that needs to be cleaned out. Clean it out now or spend 700 billion and have to clean it out in another 2-3 years.
genso on September 23, 2008 at 4:17 PM
The Resolution Trust Corporation, created to deal with S&L mess, was created in 1989 and dissolved in 1996. Hopefully, this would be something with a similar limited life.
dedalus on September 23, 2008 at 4:17 PM
It’s is sickeningly obvious that what the terrorists did not accomplish on 9/11, our elected officials and wall street slime have accomplished without us so much as lifting an eyebrow.
csdeven on September 23, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Good point. But it’s amazing how many armchair quarterbacks will come out of the woodwork after it passes, claiming that it was never necessary.
The country is lucky to have a guy as smart and talented as Paulson at the helm during times of crisis. Bernanke, I’m less sure about…
foreverright on September 23, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Anyone willing to serve in Congress must agree to term limits plus lifetime bans on lobbying for foreign governments and corporations.
Anyone unable to agree to these conditions is not interested in serving the public.
It’s time to end the professional political class and reintroduce citizens back to governance.
mylegsareswollen on September 23, 2008 at 4:18 PM
This is essentially McCain’s Iraq War vote momemt that Obama keeps invoking. McCain has nothing to loose by voting NO.
tdavisjr on September 23, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Yeah, the supposed “bailout” of the auto industry is $25 billion, and would go to help companies weather costs of government-mandated fuel economy and other regulations.
The greedheads on Wall Street have gotten their hands on far more than that already, and are clamoring for the Big Pile o’ Money now.
I only wish Vegas would adopt the real “Bush Doctrine” — bail out your friends, lay money on your enemies, ’cause, hey, it’s only money — because I’d be there every weekend. Imagine playing the slots and knowing you’ll get 100% of your “losses” covered!
I’m with Newt. Let the people who supposedly knew (and ignored) the dangers fail. We’ll be a more productive country without all the clever “investments” designed to bring big paydays for no work.
MrScribbler on September 23, 2008 at 4:19 PM
In the practical art of economics, leaders must be prepared to set things on the proper course at any time in the future. In the impractical art of economics, they should have already set things on the right course quite some time ago, and it’s probably already too late. You all are scroomed.
MB4 on September 23, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Click here to tell Senator McCain what you think he should do about the bailout.
I say he should oppose it.
Government incompetence is what got us into this mess. It is inconceivable that they can get us out of it.
GulfCoastBamaFan on September 23, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Paulson Bailout: No
CC
CapedConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Hey Dillweed… this was started under… wait for it…. CLINTON!
Get your facts straight, boy!
upinak on September 23, 2008 at 4:20 PM
And another thing… Harry Reid is a spineless, know nothing, do nothing lying little freak.
Don’t even ask me what I think of Nancy Pelosi, Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.
McCain needs to buy about 15 minutes and explain this mess to everyone. Maybe McCain and Newt and perhaps a DEM in there for good measure.
Oink on September 23, 2008 at 4:21 PM
This may have the same structure but so far that model has been rejected. However, I would argue that the economy has many more problems now than it did in the late 80’s. The economy as it currently stands is not sustainable.
genso on September 23, 2008 at 4:21 PM
You don’t seem to grasp the nature of the problem:
This has been brewing for months, years, and the “watchdogs” of our society, the ones that we put in trust to oversee these situations—saw nothing, spoke of nothing, ignored it to where it became a disaster. This isn’t some dam breaking in the middle of the night and flooding a town, this is a problem that was easily recognized by the people we elected to be stewards of our money. GET IT???
The “nature” of the problem could have been remedied if they had done their job. So now you or others want the same “brilliant” men to bail us out…
Here let me give you an analogy…you go to a pool and you have lifeguards. Everyday the lifeguards fall asleep and people drown. Today you take your kids to the pool, do you leave them there with the same lifeguards? If I say no, change the lifeguards first, you say “you don’t grasp the nature of the problem, the water is unsafe”, yeah I know, that’s why we have lifeguards, and the lifeguards should be trained and capable.
GET IT???
right2bright on September 23, 2008 at 4:22 PM
The bill circulated last week was embarrassingly bad for anyone associated with it. The Democratic ammendments begin to make it reasonable. Those clowns on Wall Street have to get there asses handed to them over this. We need a banking system, but we don’t want those guys running it anymore. Let them go under and use the $700B’s to start a new system.
pedestrian on September 23, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Student loans might be ok, since there’s a very legitimate need to keep those loans available under our current tight credit conditions. But credit card financing and everything else can turn into a special interests nightmare. The problem with many financial services is that sector has strong connections across both parties.
foreverright on September 23, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Civics lesson time, eh? So what’s the difference between socialism and communism, pal? Socialism is the changeover to communism. When economies enter dire straits, like many were in the 1920s, and the capital does not exist in the hands of the rich to sustain it, the knee-jerk response is government takeover, like we are facing now. You haven’t addressed what I already mentioned: Lehman Brothers failed. If it fails again(and it likely will), with hundreds of millions in debt to the government, either the government will forgive the loan (never happen), give them an extension or refinance the bills(temporary fix), or consolidate ownership. Will you keep arguing the point until government control equals 50.1% of shares? The chances of this coming out in favor of continued private control is damn near nil.
Quit whining. The only one reverting to any old ways is you, stomping off when I tell you to remain intellectually honest.
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:24 PM
There was intervention on the money supply front. The recently created Fed didn’t know what it was doing and drained away the money supply. This created the Great Depression, which was made even worse by protectionism. Now the money supply is again threatened as capital is drying up throughout the system. It’s happening again. Bernanke, student of the great depression and Paulson now see this happening. They are moving to avert it.
phronesis on September 23, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Today the President was at the UN telling the assembly {and much of the world} that the US would deal with this problem. We would not let the financial sector collapse.
And here comes Newt, who is no longer in office or in a position of authority doing his best to undermine a Republican president in a time of crisis.
Once again conservatives eat their own.
I will say this, I don’t think that people like Bernacke and Paulson would be asking for something like this if they did not believe we needed to do something. I am sure the public is concerned just by the word bailout, but they will be even more concerned by the word Depression.
I have no desire to become a socialist or to condone bad behavior, but it will be a lot less painful to deal with the consequences of a rescue than it will be do deal with the consequences of a major financial meltdown.
How long did it take Republicans to come to majority status after the Great Depression and Hoover?
Terrye on September 23, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Funny thing is, Bush wanted a new oversight agency and a regulation reformation back in ‘03. The Democratic response? The Bush Administration is overreacting to Fannie & Freddie! Neither is in financial trouble! Oracles they were.
amerpundit on September 23, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Why are so many conservative talk radio hosts and bloggers all-but silent on this? Sure, they blame the Dems for Fannie and Freddie, which is fine, but aren’t really saying much about the merits of this bailout.
It’s very odd. Republican congressmen and newspaper columnists are all over this, but blogs and radio guys – for the most part – seem eerily quiet.
YYZ on September 23, 2008 at 4:25 PM
There’s plenty of private industry in Europe, and they’re pretty socialist.
BadgerHawk on September 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Just another perspective.
genso on September 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM
rplat on September 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM
It’s already happening. Sallie Mae is a kindred spirit to the companies currently sinking, and they’re one of the worst student loan companies in the country because of their horrendous interest rates. Some people are facing a payment plan that adds up to a quarter of a million dollars just to pay off eighty thousand. Defaults are growing monthly, and you can bet your ass that the student loan market is going to collapse as quickly as tuition rates have gone up in the last 20 years.
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM
McCain should get gingrich and mitt in there, offer a substitute plan that fixes the underlying problems (repeal sarbones-oxley, re-instate glass-steagall, etc) and get it to a vote.
lorien1973 on September 23, 2008 at 4:26 PM
I’m with Gingrich on this. Time for some hard medicine. Call the bluff, kill the bailout.
Citizen Duck on September 23, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Is the sky falling? Read the following and you tell me.
This is VERBATIM from a financial advisor at one of the USA’s largest independent investment advisory firm (not investment banking, ADVISORY only), with respect to how dangerous things got last Thursday when commercial paper stopped trading, as a run on money market (cash) funds began and many large such funds were getting ready to “break the buck”:
“Virtually nothing was trading. All the major buyers, specifically money market funds, had stopped replacing their maturing paper (i.e., buying new paper) in order to hoard cash to prepare for a run on that cash. They were all expecting mass redemptions starting Friday (9/19). Had the bailout not been announced, by Monday (9/22), most money markets would have gone through their cash and been unable to honor new redemptions. The ensuing panic would have enveloped the bond and stock market on Tuesday (today) and trading would have been curbed or even halted on all global exchanges. What a mess!!!”
You people tell me: Does that sound like a market meltdown, or does it not?
THIS is why Bernanke and Paulson are urging speed.
Shirotayama on September 23, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I say let the fuckers fail. They built their house of cards, they can live with the consequences. Including the politicans that enabled this in the first place.
GarandFan on September 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Madison Conservative:
They are not just writing bank checks to people. These toxic assets will be liquidated at auction once their value has been ascertained. The government will get the proceeds from the auctions. It will not be a total washout.
And these companies have already lost billions, some of them have already ceased to exist altogether.
Terrye on September 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Another aspect of this problem, sub-prime mortgagees having difficulties making ends meet, is high energy prices. A concerted effort to increase our domestic oil supply would bring down energy costs even while increasing our energy security. It’s too bad congress doesn’t seem inclined to seriously address this aspect of the problem.
FloatingRock on September 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Is that you read in the Ben Stein article about credit default swaps, or are you venting? Because the size of the defaulted subprime loans amounted to no more than the $200 bill range. The massive meltdown occurred thanks to people like Alan Greenspan who insisted that these derivatives effectively spread risk thoughout the financial system. And thinks to the SEC, which failed to regulate.
Warren Buffet predicted that mortgage-related derivatives would be cause of the next financial crisis many years ago. No one took him seriously at the time.
foreverright on September 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Fiduciary responsibility was killed by the golden parachute. The Jacob Marleys are just as responsible as the Fidel Castros. If the free enterprise folks think that the Fast Eddie factor isn’t in play here they are just nuts.
The system has made us all into Jimmy Kimmel. All ass, no skull.
Angry in Texas. Pooch Wall Street and pooch Red Square.
Limerick on September 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Mitt was on Kudlow yesterday saying he basically agrees with the plan. Not that sarbox repeal, eliminating mark-to-market for banks, etc. wouldn’t also help.
phronesis on September 23, 2008 at 4:29 PM
True enough, but we’re not dealing with protectionism this time. Worse, we’re facing a dollar that is as weak as a newborn kitten, which would make money-printing by the government for the sake of investment firms just fuel for the fire.
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:29 PM
McCain should ignore the Dems and show up for the Senate vote without telling them what he will do.
lodge on September 23, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Garand:
It is not that simple. Not be a long shot, if it was, there would not even be a discussion.
Terrye on September 23, 2008 at 4:29 PM
I see two very big IFs.
IF McCain doesn’t go along, and Reid uses that as an excuse to not pass the Administrations proposal,
and
IF, the financial panic of last week was a contrived panic orchestrated by an army of democrat rumor mongers, George Soros minions leveraged by Soros millions. .
then
McCain says no deal, and another contrived panic collapses the US financial market. McCain’s presidential bid is toast, The Obama is our next president. We have an openly marxist/socialist government within the year.
“so you like to play poker, eh?”
rockhauler on September 23, 2008 at 4:29 PM
And that couldn’t be done privately, with the proceeds going to the stockholders…why?
MadisonConservative on September 23, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Presumably, McCain has an opinion, and won’t let himself be led by the nose by anyone. He’s running for President, not doormat.
And I’d like to know what his opinion is, and why, since I’m voting for him. (I am not interested in Obama’s opinion on this, or on Georgia, or on the energy crisis, or anything else serious.)
Finally, this is like a government shutdown. If Reid shuts down the Dems by blackmailing McCain, will his stunt work politically. It didn’t work for Gingrich if I recall correctly.
As for the plan, it’s hard to say with a gun to your head.
JiangxiDad on September 23, 2008 at 4:31 PM
Typically I just thing the world of Newt. I loved his political leadership in the mid-90’s. I think he’s one of the brightest politicians in the conservative world.
But it’s important to remember: He was a HISTORY professora and NOT an economics or finance professor before he got into politics.
Context needs maintaining.
Shirotayama on September 23, 2008 at 4:31 PM
McCain is holding a press conference.
Enoxo on September 23, 2008 at 4:31 PM
LMFAO! I just spit my cup o noodle all over my damn screen!
upinak on September 23, 2008 at 4:31 PM
McCain speaking now
genso on September 23, 2008 at 4:32 PM
McCain seeking 5 improvements to the bill.
He sounds like he won’t vote for it without those improvements.
Enoxo on September 23, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Government started the Dept. of Education to fix the education crisis. How are test scores doing, these days.
Government started the Dept. of Energy to fix the other energy crisis. How are oil prices and US production doing, these days?
Government started the Social Security system to fix the widows and orphans problem. How is the trust fund doing, these days?
Government started Medicare to fix the medical care for seniors problem. How’s that program doing, these days?
Is there anyone out there who seriously believes that government intervention is the answer, after a shitty record like this?!?
Conservatives should be mounting pitchfork and torch parades over this. Call your Senators. Call your Congresscritters. This must not pass.
GulfCoastBamaFan on September 23, 2008 at 4:32 PM
…if Harry Reid, Pelosi and their ilk can bring it about, they will. They and their party are invested in national ruin.
…and, yes, I am doubting their patriotism….
Puritan1648 on September 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM
improvements… like?
sorry.. no tv here.
upinak on September 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Just doing my part for Red Dawn. ;)
Limerick on September 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Madison:
If we have a complete ceasing up of the financial system,what will happen to that dollar? It was making something of a recovery, but it has been in freefall in recent days. Kill this bill and it will fall some more. Oil and other commodities might go back up as well as they become haven stocks. Banks start to fail, people have trouble cashing paychecks. Foreign banks and markets crash, trade starts to falter.
People say that they want to be purists and not protect the markets, fine, but that is exactly the kind of thing that has happened in the past when people let the markets take their course.
Terrye on September 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM
I think a major problem is so many of us don’t know near enough about what is going on!!!!!
That’s what my Grandma always warned me about! She said the government wants people to be “stupid” so they can pull the wool over our eyes easily. I think that’s what’s happening. But it seems like our politicians are as ignorant about it as the rest of us. Who are we depending on Bernanke and Paulson (former CEO on Wall Street?)
Oink on September 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Two words: Great Depression.
Terrye on September 23, 2008 at 4:34 PM
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