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Does Obama really get a six-point burden for being black?

posted at 11:30 am on September 22, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The Associated Press postulates today that Barack Obama may have a six-point handicap in the presidential polling due to his African heritage.  Based on their polling, they determine that white Americans have a negative attitude towards blacks, who also have a negative attitude towards whites, and that Democrats are not immune.  However, the polling misses a few details, such as Obama’s win in the primaries:

Until now, social scientists have not closely examined racial sentiments on a nationwide scale at a moment when race is central to choosing the next president. The poll, which featured a large sample of Americans — more than 2,200 — and sophisticated survey techniques rarely used in media surveys, reflected the complexity, change and occasional contradictions of race relations.

More whites apply positive attributes to blacks than negative ones, and blacks are even more generous in their descriptions of whites. Racial prejudice is lower among college-educated whites living outside the South. And many whites who think most blacks are somewhat lazy, violent or boastful are willing or even eager to vote for Obama over Republican John McCain, who is white. …

Polls consistently show Obama running about even with McCain, or leading by a notably smaller margin than the one Democrats enjoy over Republicans in most generic surveys about which party is best suited to govern.

The AP-Yahoo News poll suggests that racial prejudice could cost Obama up to 6 percentage points this fall. That’s a big hurdle in a nation whose last two presidential elections were decided by much smaller margins.

I’m not going to discount this out of hand.  Most conventional wisdom would have it as a wash — that the number of people not voting for Obama because of his race would be roughly offset by those voting for him expressly or primarily for that reason.  Both voters exist, and examples of the latter can be found in the media.  Chris Matthews has openly expressed his support for Obama because of the message it will send about the transcendence of American history Obama’s victory would represent, and he’s not the only media analyst to make that case.  However, the idea that they cancel each other out is at best a guess, and polling on the issue would be instructive.

I’m not certain that the AP/Yahoo poll satisfies that, however.  First, the methodology seems rather suspect.  They ask several questions about attitudes that hardly seems predictive of voting patterns, and their own numbers show why.  The attitudes don’t change on an age-demographic basis, while Obama’s support clearly is strongest among younger voters.  If that depended on less racism, then his support demographics would make no sense (or this poll does a bad job in identifying racism).  Two-thirds of Democrats who note two or more negative attitudes towards blacks plan to vote for Obama, making supposed racism a non-factor.

Fortunately, we have more solid evidence at hand.  First, Obama beat Hillary Clinton, especially in caucuses, where enthusiasm counts much more than in normal primaries.  Given the AP/Yahoo findings in their polling, Obama never should have beaten the better-organized and more well-known Hillary.  Second, Obama has almost no resumé for this job.  When was the last time a major party nominated a first-term Senator with no executive or military experience as its presidential nominee?  Obama’s ethnicity may not have been the reason why Democrats nominated him with these real questions about experience, but it certainly didn’t appear to handicap him, either.

They still could be correct about their conclusions, but they need much better evidence than what they show here.


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Comment pages: 1 2

Does it hell. This is pre-emptive damage control. There was little to no evidence of the Bradley Effect in the primaries.

lodge on September 22, 2008 at 11:32 AM

Just need 7% more dead people to vote, that’s all. It’s not that difficult.

lorien1973 on September 22, 2008 at 11:32 AM

It’s dumb to postulate this because there’s no way to ever actually know.

The Dean on September 22, 2008 at 11:33 AM

There was little to no evidence of the Bradley Effect in the primaries.

lodge on September 22, 2008 at 11:32 AM

I respectfully disagree lodge. I recall Obama polling high and not meeting those numbers. Remember New Hampshire for instance?

carbon_footprint on September 22, 2008 at 11:33 AM

But then conservatives have a six point burden in regards to; professors, high school drop-outs, actors, actresses, attorneys, environmentalists, in other words, people who don’t work for a living…

right2bright on September 22, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Ed
Care there – you washing one assumption with another assumption

I will say that those who are voting for a black guy just because he was black would be the Ivy League wanta bes who were voting left anyway

So HAH! I wash your wash of another wash with my wash

EricPWJohnson on September 22, 2008 at 11:36 AM

And many whites who think most blacks are somewhat lazy, violent or boastful are willing or even eager to vote for Obama over Republican John McCain, who is white.

Sure. And I think green ham tastes like a road kill carcass and smells like a thousand maggots, but I’m going to eat some for dinner.

Enough with the lame polls.

fogw on September 22, 2008 at 11:36 AM

If he weren’t black, or half-black, or whatever he is pretending to be at the moment, he wouldn’t be a Columbia graduate, or gotten into Harvard, or been anything but some slob attorney from a fourth-tier law school fixing speeding tickets for sururban Chiropractors.

Now he’s running for President.
Cry me a river..

TexasJew on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

If Osama Obama was not black, he’d be just another guy working at Wal-Mart. If he was lucky.

MrScribbler on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

When was the last time a major party nominated a first-term Senator with no executive or military experience as its presidential nominee?

That would be JFK. Who was a disaster as a president, until Oswald turned him into a martyr.

MarkTheGreat on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

right2bright on September 22, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Just six point?

promachus on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

WHAT RACE IS OBAMA??? 50/50? WHITE/BLACK,BLACK/WHITE????

steviedfromnc on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Shhhh!!!!!!

You’re interfering with the Narrative.

It’s all about telling people who are on the fence that they are evil, nasty racists for considering voting against the One. I’d guess there are at least a few voters out there who will hold their noses and vote for Obama just so they can use their vote as a defense against future accusations of racism.

The largely discredited “I’m not a racist — I have several black friends…” will now be replaced with “I’m not a racist — I voted for Obama.”

ClintACK on September 22, 2008 at 11:38 AM

When was the last time a major party nominated a first-term Senator with no executive or military experience as its presidential nominee?

That would be JFK. Who was a disaster as a president, until Oswald turned him into a martyr.

MarkTheGreat on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

JFK was a WWII vet.

baldilocks on September 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM

So he gets no burden for being essentially a socialist?

rbj on September 22, 2008 at 11:40 AM

WHAT RACE IS OBAMA??? 50/50? WHITE/BLACK,BLACK/WHITE????

steviedfromnc on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Black. And White. Like almost every other black America, with the ratio varying. Is your caps-lock key stuck?

baldilocks on September 22, 2008 at 11:41 AM

First, Obama beat Hillary Clinton, especially in caucuses …

Caucuses = very public horsetrading/jawboning among your Democrat peers in a local living room or high school gym.

Primaries = secret ballot.

There you go.

Cuffy Meigs on September 22, 2008 at 11:42 AM

Saw part of this reported on Fox this morning. Bob Beckel is still pretending that Jeremiah Wright indicates nothing about Obama’s racial attitudes.

baldilocks on September 22, 2008 at 11:43 AM

Since 95% of all black Americans are going to vote for BO and that same group accounts for ~14% of the vote doesn’t that give McCain a ~13% handicap?

chb03c on September 22, 2008 at 11:44 AM

The AP-Yahoo News poll suggests that racial prejudice could cost Obama up to 6 percentage points this fall. That’s a big hurdle in a nation whose last two presidential elections were decided by much smaller margins.

Interesting that the “handicap” is attributed to race without any consideration that it could be Obama’s utter lack of experience and not his multi-racial background that is making the difference!

In a way this survey does nothing but affirm the myth that white Americans are really closet bigots.

highhopes on September 22, 2008 at 11:44 AM

It is not true. This is either to explain away why Barack Obama is not plus 15 points right now (the liberal elites do not get it)–or to hope conservatives stay home thinking McCain has it in the bag.

Mr. Joe on September 22, 2008 at 11:45 AM

JFK was also a war hero and about as conservative a democrat as we are ever likely to see, there would have never been a great society had Oswald found a different hobby

EricPWJohnson on September 22, 2008 at 11:45 AM

I like the subtle innuendo in all of this. Obvious questions not being asked directly. The only real point of this is despite the Democrat majority for blacks, politics is out the window and they are voting for him ONLY because he is “blackish”.

As a black Conservative/Republican I simply DO NOT forgive the Democrats. For me Obama picked the wrong team. Period.

Six points simply means some Dems are not convinced. And the Democrats should know. They have crated the craven political black race traitors. They serve a purpose, but President? Not.

Agrippa2k on September 22, 2008 at 11:46 AM

Of course, no thought that perhaps…just perhaps…it is not racism but policy-ism that is making this race competative.

Mr. Joe on September 22, 2008 at 11:46 AM

So AP/Yahoo are playing the ‘race card’ for Obama now?

GarandFan on September 22, 2008 at 11:46 AM

So now, according to Wright, Phleger, Farrahkan, Michelle O!, and AP?; in AmeriKKKa everyone is a RAAAAAAAAAAACIST !!1!1!eleventy!!11!!

Give me a mutha-lovin’, effin’ break…

Who did they poll? Chris Tingle, Keefy O!, and the rest of the MSM???

RocketmanBob on September 22, 2008 at 11:47 AM

It would be very easy to measure the benefit Obama from being “black” the difference in the black vote would easy to calculate. I doubt the media would take the time to highlight Obama getting 95% of the black vote versus the normal 90% Democrats get.

Theworldisnotenough on September 22, 2008 at 11:47 AM

Bob Beckel is still pretending that Jeremiah Wright indicates nothing about Obama’s racial attitudes.

baldilocks on September 22, 2008 at 11:43 AM

Beckel’s an idiot. Why does anybody listen to a man who worked for Jimmy Carter’s administration and ran Mondale’s campaign? The way he attacks Palin with innuendo is disgusting.

highhopes on September 22, 2008 at 11:48 AM

A good friend who is a city manager and staunch Democrat in the Houston area was absolutely repulsed by the Obama people’s conduct in the local caucus. He was a Hillary supporter who has vowed that he would sooner vote for Nader than Obama.
Funny how Obama’s thug tactics in the caucuses didn’t merit 5 seconds worth of MSM coverage.
And what a joke this “racism” card is. The dude is the candidate because of his race. No? Give his qualifications then. But we’re supposed to think that his race hinders him now? Classic. But then, Obama has been allowed to have it both ways for two years. Why stop now?

Sugar Land on September 22, 2008 at 11:48 AM

I’M from Arkansas, land of “God, gays, and guns’ DEMOCRATS… you know, the only state in the south where everyone is an elected Dem but all of our Dems act just like Republicans? Where the election is over in May because the dem primary is the ‘real’ contest? Where Democratic congressmen are photographed shooting as many moving things as they can in the Ozark Mountains?

And Let me tell you something about these Arkansas democrats……

Six points is an UNDERSTATEMENT. I’m saying Twelve, easy.

That’s reality, not “smears”

battleoflepanto1571 on September 22, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Does it matter to ANYONE that blacks are backing Obama to the level of 90%+??? Isn’t THAT racism, as well???

As far as whites, Obama benefits from the liberal white guilt vote, more than he is negatively impacted by any racism that goes against him!

Star20 on September 22, 2008 at 11:49 AM

(my point is not that the gop is ‘racist’, but that your average democrat OUTSIDE of an urban area or a college town is not exactly… well….

heck, look at the Ky and WVA primaries, and read the exits.

battleoflepanto1571 on September 22, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Does it matter to ANYONE that blacks are backing Obama to the level of 90%+??? Isn’t THAT racism, as well???

Shhhh!!!! That’s called being “progressive”

SIlly you, only whites can be racist! Shame on you for thinking that! Are you racist yourself????

:)

battleoflepanto1571 on September 22, 2008 at 11:51 AM

So the fact that 95% of blacks will vote for Obama isn’t a “handicap” for John McCain?

Who are the racists again???

Such bullhockey.

unmeritedfavor on September 22, 2008 at 11:51 AM

Does it hell. This is pre-emptive damage control. There was little to no evidence of the Bradley Effect in the primaries.

That could be because Hilliary Clinton was a woman so when speaking to Pollsters they couldn’t be seen as “prejudiced” regardless of who they supported.

Kronos on September 22, 2008 at 11:51 AM

jinxy.

unmeritedfavor on September 22, 2008 at 11:52 AM

black or white, the guys is still an empty suit who has done nothing but give speaches….

SDarchitect on September 22, 2008 at 11:52 AM

The caucus results are the result of turning out a small demographic, and does not predict general election results well.

Also, many Obama caucus wins were in red states where Obama will not be competitive.

Primary polls versus election results are a better predictor, but do not include republican & independent voters.

At least the primary poll to voting percentages measure the bias from voters who lie to pollsters.

Right_of_Attila on September 22, 2008 at 11:54 AM

Bradley Effect only applies for the general election, not the Primaries.

Sakaki on September 22, 2008 at 11:55 AM

right2bright on September 22, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Just six point?

promachus on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Really!!! more like 12 or 18…throw it that fact that he is white so only getting 4% of the black.
Obama loses 6% of the conservatives, which is 6% of 50% or a total of 3% but picks up 95% of the 12% (% of black voters) which is about 11.4 of the total vote.
Using 2004 vote totals this is what it is.
About 122 million voted. Say for ease it was a 50/50 split.
About 60 million votes for each would have been casts.
Barack loses 6% of the conservative vote which is 3.6 million because he is black.
But he picks up 95% of the black vote. 12% of 120 million is 14.4 million, and 95% of that is 13 million.
So he is trading 3.6 million for 14.4 million votes for being black…sounds like a good trade off.
The extreme would be 6% of all votes (as if a liberal would vote against a black), then the trade would be 7 million for 14 million…still a good deal for being black.

right2bright on September 22, 2008 at 11:56 AM

With all of the talk of Reagan or more retro Lincoln, their should be greater attention paid to Frederick Douglas.

“I am a Republican, a black, dyed in the wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress.”

Republicans have not lost their heritage, it has been stolen/re-written by the left. Obama is a fraud of the most despicable kind – simply because he is a Democrat. No other reason is required.

Agrippa2k on September 22, 2008 at 11:56 AM

WaPo Alaska’s real chief of staff: The First Dude?
A little Headlines link help please

multiuseless on September 22, 2008 at 11:56 AM

What about the Dems’ 30-point advantage courtesy of the MSM machine?

ex-Democrat on September 22, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Two-thirds of Democrats who note two or more negative attitudes towards blacks plan to vote for Obama, making supposed racism a non-factor.

Mixing of attitudes towards groups vs. individuals muddies the water. These polls seem to try to determine attitudes towards groups, and then apply them as attitudes towards Obama.
Ex.
Germans are militaristic. My particular German friend isn’t. Don’t humans tend to do this with all groups? Why not with Obama?

JiangxiDad on September 22, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Obama’s ethnicity may not have been the reason why Democrats nominated him

It was a major reason. People will be reluctant to admit it, but there’s no way in heck that guy gets the nomination if he were a typical white person. I know people who voted for Obama instead of Hillary without one good reason other than “it would mean a lot for our image” or some such thing. In other words, they voted for him because he is black.

forest on September 22, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Does Obama really get a six-point burden for being black?

Given the identity politics of American Democrats, he obviously would have lost to Hillary, had he been “white” instead of “black.” In the general election, he and his supporters wouldn’t be able to make charges of race-hatred against Senator McCain and his staff, were it not that Senator Obama is, of course, “black.” Nor do I imagine he would have quite so solid a lock on American “blacks” if he were “white.”

Kralizec on September 22, 2008 at 11:58 AM

This takes me back to freshman English, with our socialist-liberated teacher Ms. Shepherd, discussing MLK’s “Letter from the B’ham Jail”. A white kid in a John Deere baseball cap made a comment that raised Shepherd’s hackles, prompting her to point out very loudly that there was a black student in the classroom.

The black student shook her head and said “I agree with him”. It was a great moment.

I’m hoping the black population is starting to clue in to the fact that no matter how far they advance, the MSM, Jessie Jackson, Charlie Rangel, Al Sharpton will always be there to 1. remind them of their past, and 2. take credit for their advancement.

AubieJon on September 22, 2008 at 11:58 AM

“Also, many Obama caucus wins were in red states where Obama will not be competitive.

Plus, he cheated in the caucuses. I think it is really a toss up who will win. So much of Obama’s campaign is dishonest that it is difficult to get an accurate read on things.

skree on September 22, 2008 at 11:58 AM

let’s turn on the whahbulance for him!

What a child

jdsmith0021 on September 22, 2008 at 11:59 AM

More whites apply positive attributes to blacks than negative ones, and blacks are even more generous in their descriptions of whites.

And that 6 point deficeit comes from?

Could it be that Americans are not voting based on generic stereotypes put forward in these polls? Like the ‘generic Democrat’ who should be out there with a black and yellow label and hoping to be ‘generic’. Maybe there is something else at work… like the urban/rural divide that has been arounds since… oh… the founding of the nation. But that is cultural, who wants to measure that?

ajacksonian on September 22, 2008 at 11:59 AM

It would be nice to be able to identify that group of white Obama supporters who do so because of his policy positions as opposed to simple white guilt.

a capella on September 22, 2008 at 12:06 PM

Mixing of attitudes towards groups vs. individuals muddies the water.

Exactly. From the article:

She said a few negative traits, such as “lazy” and “irresponsible,” apply “somewhat well” to most blacks

.

That woman might apply those to a group, but doesn’t see Obama like that.

MamaAJ on September 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Just imagine for a moment if it were the black candidate in this election, rather than the white candidate, who was born in Central America, was an indifferent churchgoer, had graduated near the bottom of his university class, had dumped his first wife, and had regularly displayed an explosive and profane temper

-Nicholas Kristof

crr6 on September 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM

What’s the point burden for being an unqualified, hopelessly corrupt jackass?

More than six I would hope.

NoDonkey on September 22, 2008 at 12:10 PM

JFK was a WWII vet.

baldilocks on September 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM

You are of course correct. Though the circumstances around JFK getting his patrol boat destroyed have never been fully answered.

MarkTheGreat on September 22, 2008 at 12:12 PM

First, Obama beat Hillary Clinton, especially in caucuses, where enthusiasm counts much more than in normal primaries. Given the AP/Yahoo findings in their polling, Obama never should have beaten the better-organized and more well-known Hillary.

Obama beat Hillary in caucuses where the votes are PUBLIC and the Politically correct Democrats did not want their fellow democrats to know they were voting against a Black man lest their motives be questioned.

Obama lost in many states with PRIVATE polling primaries.

Voting against Barack Obama due to race is more widespread than anybody, Democrat or Republican want to admit. Just like voting for Obama because he is black is more than Democrats want to admit.

Elizabetty on September 22, 2008 at 12:13 PM

And another 3.5-point burden for Michelle.

albill on September 22, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Other pollsters haven’t found that prejudice because they are not doing stuff like this:

To detect unreported racial biases, the study, among other metrics, sat those interviewed in front of monitors, using black and white faces to “measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them.” The survey then used statistical modeling to estimate how representative those interviewed were of the electorate overall.

The survey’s conclusions are likely to be controversial…

No kidding!

Karl on September 22, 2008 at 12:15 PM

Gee, it’s all so confusing. I guess I’ll just vote my race, and the heck with it.

argos on September 22, 2008 at 12:15 PM

At this point, I don’t really care how he gets burdened…I just want him to lose.

bridgetown on September 22, 2008 at 12:15 PM

When was the last time a major party nominated a first-term Senator with no executive or military experience as its presidential nominee?

That would be JFK. Who was a disaster as a president, until Oswald turned him into a martyr.

MarkTheGreat

JFK was in the military and was first elected to the Senate in ‘52. He was far more experienced than Obama. He was a crappy President, but so were all of them that followed until 1980. In fact, LBJ, Nixon and Carter were all worse than JFK.

Patrick H on September 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM

Of course, one could argue that McCain is getting a 12.7% burden for being white, given that upwards of 90% of black voters are polling for Obama.

VastRightWingConspirator on September 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM

crr6 on September 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Kristof — and Randal Kennedy — can peddle that all they want. What if this election was between Colin Powell and a John Edwards (sans affair, but attending a radical church for 20 years)?

Karl on September 22, 2008 at 12:17 PM

But he picks up 95% of the black vote. 12% of 120 million is 14.4 million, and 95% of that is 13 million.

Blacks normally vote about 90% Democratic. Going to 95% would be an improvement of 5% not 95%.

MarkTheGreat on September 22, 2008 at 12:17 PM

Message: Barry would be winning big time if we racists could only see past color.

If he looses it will say something unfortunate about America.

moxie_neanderthal on September 22, 2008 at 12:17 PM

VastRightWingConspirator on September 22, 2008 at 12:16 PM

You’re being racist.

jk

bridgetown on September 22, 2008 at 12:18 PM

crr6 on September 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Quoting a fool I see…
Obviously stretching to make a point about McCain…

He was not born in “Central America” he was born on American soil.
He didn’t graduate from a university…It was a military academy where only the best of the best are allowed to attend. So many “wash out” that the bottom of the class is better then the top of most. And what were Obama’s undergraduate grades??? Oh, he won’t allow anyone to see them?
And the rest, more of the bitter same…he has explosive and irrational behavior, sounds like the left with all of their false accusations.

right2bright on September 22, 2008 at 12:19 PM

If Obama was white, had a non-exotic name and with his inexperience and liberal record – he would have never gotten past the first Democratic primary.

albill on September 22, 2008 at 12:21 PM

And if you read that Brent Staples article in the New York Times in the header you will find WE are the ones using code language not THE ONE! OUTRAGEOUS!

Since THE MANCHILD is not winning in the South they have decided to tar and feather those of us in the South as ignorant racists. Good luck on that one! Same song second verse Obama! When are we not labeled as ignorant racists down here?

What I find amusing is that this article, along with other articles about race, seem to be subconsciously telling voters in swing states that they must not allow WE of the racist South to dictate the outcome of this election. But vile, false accusations and this manner of getting in people’s faces is not going to work in any section of the U.S. Chicago style politics does not appeal to Mississippians and it apparently does not appeal to those living in North Dakota either!

WE are ALL Americans and WE ALL hate racism and false labels based on skin pigmentation. The Obama camp is placing a wedge between the races via the media and his own actions. We must make sure that we do not allow this race issue to cause us to become bigots because of the assertions and finger pointing by Obama. He wants us to be divided and to be very suspicious of one another. They want us to be bigots even if the bias is only in our minds, and not acted upon.

Yes, the 90% African-American vote is based on Obama’s pigmentation, and is racist, but many an African-American is closely observing our responses and we cannot allow Obama to win on this issue even if he looses the Presidential race. The carnage and bodies left behind in this racial war must be limited. There are African-Americans out there that are not going to vote for Obama, and are horrified at his racial assertions. We cannot, and must not fall for this trap in being ticked because the majority of the African-American voter base will not see the truth of the racial smears, or the terrible ideology Obama represents. Most of these voters would have voted for the Democrat ticket regardless of the racial makeup of the candidate anyway. There is so much resentment out here on how Obama has tagged white voters that I am very concerned about what the aftermath of this election is going to bring Americans.

freeus on September 22, 2008 at 12:23 PM

You are of course correct. Though the circumstances around JFK getting his patrol boat destroyed have never been fully answered.

MarkTheGreat on September 22, 2008 at 12:12 PM

For the numb skull Left, the question; Is water wet?…. has not been fully answered.

Maxx on September 22, 2008 at 12:23 PM

ED,

Perhaps you and others here can enlighten me.

It is generally assumed as a “given” among these circles (and I agree…) that the FlatLine (henceforth FLM) Media (ABC, CBS, NBC, Cnn-HA!, etc etc) is “in the tank for Obama”, or “biased towards Democrats”…

…and HAS BEEN for quite some time.

WHY NOT THE SAME FOR POLLSTERS?!

I find unhealthy the degree of attention given to them, though I *DO* recognize their influence on others (as that of the FLM), yet I sense deference rather than skepticism.

I would be most grateful for elaboration and thoughts on this matter.

Thanks.

Lockstein13 on September 22, 2008 at 12:24 PM

albill on September 22, 2008 at 12:21 PM

He would have been beating by Mike Gravel.

I would love somebody to make a fake person with 100% of Barack’s History but change his name to Bill Smith, make him white and then poll to see how well he does againt the other Dems.

Elizabetty on September 22, 2008 at 12:24 PM

WHY NOT THE SAME FOR POLLSTERS?!

Thanks.

Lockstein13 on September 22, 2008 at 12:24 PM

Oh, they are. They are conducting “agenda polling” now trying to get the country to do what their polls suggest “everybody else is doing.”

As Nov 4 comes upon us the polls will tighten and all polling firms will say the race is just to danged close to call. When Obama loses, they will get on TV and claim there is no way to poll for the racism.

Elizabetty on September 22, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Brings to mind the old saying “Liars figure and figures lie.”

TooTall on September 22, 2008 at 12:27 PM

The caucus results are the result of turning out a small demographic, and does not predict general election results well.

Also, many Obama caucus wins were in red states where Obama will not be competitive.

Amen. In the primary, Obama clearly did better in the caucus states. Just how well will those victories translate into winning the state during the general election?

For that matter, how many of those caucus states would he have won if they had been like the other “show up and vote” state primaries?

Review the vote in Texas, which is a blended primary/caucus state:

Primary:
Clinton 1,459,814 51%
Obama 1,358,785 47%

Caucus:

Obama 23,918 56%
Clinton 18,620 44%

But Obama finished with 99 delegates to Clinton’s 94.

And, of course, his “win” in this state will do absolutely no good for him in the general election.

In short, I don’t think that Obama’s election-day results will come up to the same level as his polling…but his race might be the least of the reasons why.

glendower on September 22, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Its important to point out that people that support Obama for no other reason than he is black, are also RACIST. I find it odd that racism in favor of Obama is acceptable to the media but racism not in Obama’s favor is derided as somehow inhuman. If the media is going to continuously whine about racism then lets have some balance, those who support Obama merely because he is black are racist against white people. Why isn’t that fact ever explored in the media? Why isn’t that form of racism derided with equal time?

Maxx on September 22, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Blacks normally vote about 90% Democratic. Going to 95% would be an improvement of 5% not 95%.

MarkTheGreat on September 22, 2008 at 12:17 PM

lol. I was waiting for one of you guys to figure that out.

crr6 on September 22, 2008 at 12:33 PM

Think there may be some truth to this. Have heard several people say just what the blue collar folks in PA and OH are saying. They are not apologizing for it either nor do they feel guilty.

jeanie on September 22, 2008 at 12:34 PM

I didn’t read the poll. Were all participants white? If not, were blacks asked to assign attributes to whites?

Connie on September 22, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Kralizec on September 22, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Also, I doubt that Obama would have won the primaries if his main opponent was a male.

OldEnglish on September 22, 2008 at 12:37 PM

lodge on September 22, 2008 at 11:32 AM

The Bradley effect is real. But we know that in general, Democrats tend to do better in the Gallup and exit polling than they do in the actual election. A lot of that is due to weighting problems and sample selection problems.

So what I think you might see is a repeat of the 2004 race, where the exit polls and/or the Gallup tracking in the days leading up to the election show Obama up by 5, and then McCain wins, or Obama wins in a squeaker. In that kind of case, you then have to ask “was the exit poll wrong because of Bradley effects or because of weighting and sampling like last time?” The truth will be a little of both, but rest assured Obama will insist that the election was stolen by bigots.

P.S. This bemoaning of the Bradley effect just gives Obama extra incentive to play the race card and to try and play up “white guilt” to try and push fence-sitters into his camp.

Outlander on September 22, 2008 at 12:37 PM

He gets a 50 point burden just for being a Liberal.

Tommy_G on September 22, 2008 at 12:37 PM

The presumptuous idiocy of such polling is breathtaking. The notion is that, if you surgically extracted the supposed racism from the brains of these benighted knuckledraggers, but left everything about them and their political inclinations unaltered, they would otherwise vote for the AO.

In short, this is another “liberals are better people” survey dressed up in pseudo-science.

CK MacLeod on September 22, 2008 at 12:38 PM

I looked at that poll and came to the same conclusion. I simply don’t see how one accounts for the difference between his liberalism and his race. I think many more people don’t vote for liberals. Are they the same people that might not vote for him based on race? Maybe.

Barack Obama is a package. His personality, his politics, his upbringing, his lack of judgement, HIS APPALLING LACK OF EXPERIENCE, and his race. Race is such a small factor. It is impossible to measure.

I think this was an attempt to lower expectations and motivate supporters who want to stomp out racism. It might work.

petunia on September 22, 2008 at 12:41 PM

So what I think you might see is a repeat of the 2004 race, where the exit polls and/or the Gallup tracking in the days leading up to the election show Obama up by 5, and then McCain wins, or Obama wins in a squeaker. In that kind of case, you then have to ask “was the exit poll wrong because of Bradley effects or because of weighting and sampling like last time?” The truth will be a little of both, but rest assured Obama will insist that the election was stolen by bigots.

P.S. This bemoaning of the Bradley effect just gives Obama extra incentive to play the race card and to try and play up “white guilt” to try and push fence-sitters into his camp.

Outlander on September 22, 2008 at 12:37 PM

Do you have a place to see what the 2004 Gallup tacking polls were? I looked at the Rasmussen polls and it looked to me like they predicted a Bush win along. There were only a few days from Sept. 1 to Oct. 31 that Kerry was ahead.

That left me depressed. McCain needs to get ahead and stay there. I don’t think we can count on enough undecideds to swing McCain’s way at the last minute.

petunia on September 22, 2008 at 12:45 PM

This poll was bullshit from the beginning. Their stated purpose was to quantify how much race is a factor. That means, they started out ASSUMING that race is a factor — i.e., that white voters are racist; it was just a question of how many. Just like all those clowns who keep saying that if Obama loses, it can only be because of racism. This is laying the groundwork for excuse-making and civil rights lawsuits beginning November 5th.

doppelganglander on September 22, 2008 at 12:46 PM

Ed and AP, being on the Junior Scholars Comittee of the International Society of Political Psychology I have some experience in both polling and methodology. While I’m just going off of a brief look at this study and it’s conclusions, I already have a number of concerns (regarding the study’s validity). One of their primary measures is called the IAT which measures implicit and not explicit attitudes/stereotypes. First, claims that these implicit measures actually lead to any sort of specific behavior are pretty dubious. Second, even if steoertypes could be shown to exist, that does not equate to a person being biased, prejudiced, or racist. Even if a person could be shown to have extreme (one measure of attitude strength) attitudes, which this study does not do, it may not lead to any sort of behavior. Do they ask how self-relevant these attitudes are to the people that hold them? That would be a better indicator of future behavior. Also, does this study account for people who will be voting FOR Obama because of his race? I have a number of questions and I doubt highly that many of the conclusions reached in the articles I have seen can actually be drawn from an analysis of the data the experimenters had.

davenp35 on September 22, 2008 at 12:50 PM

If he weren’t black, or half-black, or whatever he is pretending to be at the moment, he wouldn’t be a Columbia graduate, or gotten into Harvard, or been anything but some slob attorney from a fourth-tier law school fixing speeding tickets for sururban Chiropractors.
Now he’s running for President.
Cry me a river..

TexasJew on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

If Osama Obama was not black, he’d be just another guy working at Wal-Mart. If he was lucky.

MrScribbler on September 22, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Wow!! It’s amazing the distorted world view some people have. Yes Obama, who graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law is a stupid talent less hack who would of amounted to nothing if he wasn’t born black. Obviously Barack, who was raised by a poor single mother, was handed the world on a silver platter.

Ric on September 22, 2008 at 12:56 PM

If he looses it will say something unfortunate about America.

moxie_neanderthal on September 22, 2008 at 12:17 PM

If he loses, not “looses.” If Obama loses, it says that voters know he is a bought-and-paid-for Chicago machine thug, unfit to be president. Obamalinsky could be purple, for all most people care. He’s still Obamalinsky.

marybel on September 22, 2008 at 12:57 PM

Barack, who was raised by a poor single mother

Ric on September 22, 2008 at 12:56 PM

Not true.

OldEnglish on September 22, 2008 at 1:06 PM

First, Obama beat Hillary Clinton, especially in caucuses, where enthusiasm counts much more than in normal primaries. Given the AP/Yahoo findings in their polling, Obama never should have beaten the better-organized and more well-known Hillary.

Don’t forget a major “drawback,” if you will, with regard to caucuses. Were the caucuses affected by peer pressure that may have intimidated attendees into voting for someone other than who they may have originally intended?

Wildcatter1980 on September 22, 2008 at 1:08 PM

Just imagine for a moment if it were the black candidate in this election, rather than the white candidate, who was born in Central America, was an indifferent churchgoer, had graduated near the bottom of his university class, had dumped his first wife, and had regularly displayed an explosive and profane temper
-Nicholas Kristof

crr6 on September 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Imagine also that this black candidate had been a U.S. Navy veteran, from a distinguished Navy family of admirals, and this candidate had been fighting for our country when his plane was shot down over enemy territory and he was captured, tortured, and imprisoned for years in horrible conditions. Imagine that the black candidate was offered early release because of his family connections, but refused to leave ahead of other POW’s who had been imprisoned longer, even though the candidate had been badly injured and was in need of medical treatment.

After his first marriage ended in divorce, imagine if the black candidate accepted full responsibility for the failure of his marriage, and was able to re-build his relationship with his ex-wife to the point where his ex-wife supported him in every one of his campaigns in his political career, and told reporters that she considers him to be “a good man.”

Imagine if the black candidate was elected to multiple terms in the U.S. Senate, and worked tirelessly for years to stop wasteful government spending, earning himself a 100% rating from non-partisan watchdog groups such as Citizens Against Government Waste. Imagine if the black candidate crusaded against corrupt and wasteful practices such as earmarks, and refused to request or accept earmarks for his home state, even though it cost him political capital to do so.

Now imagine that this candidate was running against a white freshman Senator, a product of one of the most corrupt political machines in the U.S. This white Senator surrounded himself with people of questionable ethics, had used a political fixer (and subsequent convicted felon) to help him buy his house, and had begun his political career in the home of a known terrorist. This white freshman Senator cast himself as a “reformer,” despite having no record of ever reforming anything. This white Senator was rated near the bottom of the barrel by non-partisan groups that oppose waste in government. This white Senator had requested 3/4 of a billion dollars in earmarks in his half-term in the Senate.

This white Senator cast himself as “post-racial” but had spent 20 years attending a virulently racist church. This white Senator also cast himself as “post-partisan” but had voted his party line in 97% of the votes in his career. This freshman white Senator had never served in the military, and had no executive experience whatsoever. He had served as a part-time state legislator before winning a seat in the U.S. Senate. He had been in the Senate for only six months before deciding to run for President. He had spent the remainder of the first half of his freshman term running for President, and asked the U.S. voters to accept that campaign as his main qualification to lead the nation.

This white Senator had opposed the surge in Iraq, and wrongly predicted that it would not only fail but would lead to more violence. (The imaginary black candidate had argued in favor of the surge when the idea was not popular with the U.S. electorate). The imaginary white freshman Senator had repeatedly demonstrated that he was not ready to lead, as, for example, when he responded like a deer in the headlights when Russia invaded Georgia. (The imaginary black candidate had responded quickly, forcefully, and correctly to the situation).

Gee, Mr. Kristof, I wonder who would win that election?

AZCoyote on September 22, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Oh blah, if John Edwards was nominated (say hypothetically he didn’t have the affair and child), he’d probably be in the same position Obama is in today. It’s so close because McCain is the nominee on the Republican side, simple as that.

DanStark on September 22, 2008 at 1:13 PM

Obviously Barack, who was raised by a poor single mother, was handed the world on a silver platter.

Ric on September 22, 2008 at 12:56 PM

Actually, BO was born to a poor single mother who pawned him off on her rather comfortable middle class parents. BO’s much maligned (by him, her very grandson) “typical white” grandmother did the lion’s share of handing Barack the silver platter. Please, most people on the planet have had it much worse than the actually quite privileged Barry Obama.

marybel on September 22, 2008 at 1:15 PM

Barry hasn’t been black since he threw R. Wright under the bus.

Sounds more like ground prep for his up coming loss in Nov.

TheCulturalist on September 22, 2008 at 1:16 PM

No…he gets a six point burden because he is an IDIOT!

HornetSting on September 22, 2008 at 1:25 PM

I note the reports that the McCain campaign is going to start running ads about the Obama-Rev. Wright connection. These ads, if and when they run, will of course be considered racist.

If I were doing it, I’d use nothing but the clip of Wright’s “after the disownment” comment that Barack was just doing what politicians have to do. How could that be considered racist?

glendower on September 22, 2008 at 1:29 PM

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