Quotes of the day
posted at 10:00 pm on September 21, 2008 by Allahpundit
“Congress has an obligation to protect the taxpayer.
Congress has an obligation to limit the executive branch to the rule of law.
Congress has an obligation to perform oversight…
Who is going to do oversight? How much transparency is there going to be? We still haven’t seen the report which led to bailing out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It is ‘secret’. Is our $700 billion going to be spent in ‘secret’ too? In practical terms, will a bill be written in public so people can analyze it? Or will it be written in a closed room by the very people who have been collecting money from the institutions they are now going to use our money to bail out?”
***
“If we grant the Treasury broad authority to address the immediate crisis, we must insist on independent accountability and oversight. Given the breach of trust we have seen and the magnitude of the taxpayer money involved, there can be no blank check.”
***
“Paulsen and congressional Republicans, or the few that will actually vote for this (most will be unwilling to take responsibility for the consequences of their policies), have said that there can’t be any ‘add ons,’ or addition provisions. F*** that. I don’t really want to trigger a world wide depression (that’s not hyperbole, that’s a distinct possibility), but I’m not voting for a blank check for $700 billion for those mother f***ers.”
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »
Yup, whatever it’s properly called, that’s what I was thinking of and trying to say.
KentAllard on September 21, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Yes, I know, but I just wanted to add that bit since the SEC did not force any shorts to cover, by rule. They only temporarily banned new shorts on certain stocks (for ten days, I think). Of course, many short positions probably did get squeezed because of the others who came in buying and running prices back up, but that happens on every decent market advance.
progressoverpeace on September 21, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Utter noob question: does the treasury actually have this amount in cash, or do we issue a bunch of new bonds to cover this, or print money, or what?
If we’re generating 700 Bil ex nihlo to pay this debt, is that a big enough amount to have a measurable effect on the economy?
TexasDan on September 21, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Your are my sunshine my only sunshine you make me happy when sky’s are gray, you’ll never know dear how much I love you, please don’t take my sunshine away!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6krf18huA
christene on September 21, 2008 at 11:39 PM
unseen–thanks. how about 60 cents? :-) not all banks are holding bad stuff, right? it seems the worst offenders should suffer somewhat. of course the worst offenders are really congressmen (mostly democrat congressmen), and we all know that they never seem to suffer much for their bad decisions.
funky chicken on September 21, 2008 at 11:39 PM
The flares must have been pretty small ones then and obscured by all the lack of oversight.
KentAllard on September 21, 2008 at 11:40 PM
I think you’re referring to Art. 1, Sect. 8 — which explicates the powers granted to Congress — but I think you’re mistaken on some of the things it says.
– It allows the Congress to levy taxes (on individuals), duties (on commodities, etc), imposts (on imports), and excises (on domestic products).
– It allows the Congress to “regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes“. The commerce among the States is sandwiched between commerce with foreign Nations and the Indian tribes (both external entities). The Congress is (I think) clearly presented here as acting as a referee or advocate on behalf of the States, making sure that no commercial partner (including other States) acts unethically in the doing of business.
It’s worth noting that the States were seen at this time as being semi-sovereign entities, a view that the Constitution takes pains to protect.
It requires a rather loose interpretation of the Constitution to read this clause as advocating federal intervention in the workings of a private business entity.
Harpazo on September 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Oh please. You’re drinking the government kool-aid. You have no idea if there are going to be soup lines because you don’t even know if what we’re being told is the truth. Nobody does. We’re just told that it’s super-serious and really bad and geesh, Congress better get something done this weekend. No need to answer any questions, no need for scrutiny, just push it through and send the American people the bill.
This is what they count on, the sheeple passively lining up to get sheared.
Bennett on September 21, 2008 at 11:19 PM
No I do know it was really bad and is really bad. The market dropping 4500pts since OCT tipped me off. the fact that the gov had to bailout Bear Streans, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIg tipped me off.
the fact that money markets broke the buck tipped me off. the fact that there was $500 billion in withdrawal requests on those money markets tipped me off, the fact that the Central banks pumped $180 billion into the markets that morning and it did nothig tipped me off.
And the fact that I understand the connection between short term commercial loans and main street (i.e meeting payrool, funding credit card transactions, car loans etc) tipped me off. If the gov did nothing pretty much all banks in the Us would have went under, FDIc would have failed, companies would not have been able to meet payroll, all retailers would have not been able to process credit card transactions. Basically the economy would have ground to a complete stop within a month. It was that bad and add in the influx of millions into unemployment, lost real estate, failure to pay bills would have pushed us into a depression.
This is economic fact. This is how our economy works. This is why companies pay us every 2 weeks because they fund payroll with shortterm comercial paper. This is how credit card companies can give us a 25 day window to repay our purchases with short term paper. This is how you can drive that car off 0the lot. this is how banks pay checks with low depsoits and invest the rest.
Banks runs are not a pretty sight. We have been through them before and I am damn happy my government thinks more of my welfare than to let me be held hostage to the EMOTIONS of humans.
unseen on September 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM
Your are my moonshine my only moonshine
You make me happy when sky’s are gray
You’ll never know dear how much I love you
Please don’t take my moonshine away!
Tav on September 21, 2008 at 11:43 PM
The news of the bailout itself would have caused many traders to close out their existing short positions.
FloatingRock on September 21, 2008 at 11:47 PM
64 dollar question? Where do you have you $$$ now?
KentAllard on September 21, 2008 at 11:32 PM
Cash and money markets. Was in cash before the crash, went long on thurs. Sold most thursday night rest on friday. Made some nice money on thurs and fri. Waiting now to see if Congress actually acts or turns partisian and fiddles while rome builds. I would go all cash but if congress fiddles the dollar isn’t going to be worth anything anyway so money markets are as safe as you going to get unless you think gold, oil or foodstuffs is a good deal. I never did like gold. Just shiney metal that isn’t good for anything but oil and foodstuffs might be good investments at this point in time.
unseen on September 21, 2008 at 11:47 PM
The effect is less economic than it is monetary.
Any time the gov’t prints more money than it takes off the street at the same time, it lowers the value of each dollar in circulation. Inflation is essentially the rate of loss of real value in currency.
In my opinion, the debasement of a nation’s currency does, however, invariably have a negative effect on a nation’s economy. There are disagreements about this, of course, but that’s my view as a non-Keynesian.
Harpazo on September 21, 2008 at 11:48 PM
funky chicken on September 21, 2008 at 11:39 PM
as a taxpayer I would love to see 60cents but I don’t think that will be enough to inflate the system again.
unseen on September 21, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Tav on September 21, 2008 at 11:43 PM
___________________________________________
LOLOL,…Don’t I wish!
I just had to come up with the 100% total opposite for that video. Show some love, unlike obama. If he had spoken to my MOTHER like that,- we would have words…: o )
christene on September 21, 2008 at 11:50 PM
That which is not regulated is out of control.
Ask any engine.
The failure of legislative oversight has allowed the basic instinct of the predator too free a hand in the market.
And we pay for Congress’ timidity.
By the billion$.
profitsbeard on September 21, 2008 at 11:52 PM
I am guessing that you didn’t buy at the sound of the bell on Thursday, but waited till you were pretty confident that things would keep going up for a while and then got out late Thursday/Friday as you didn’t want to push you luck.
KentAllard on September 21, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Harpazo on September 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM
With the interconnections of banks like citibank, barclay’s etc. a strong case can be made that they are dealing with interstate and forgien governments and have all the power they need to regulate said trade. The rising of taxes and duties and promote the genral welfare can also be applied to buying MBS loans. Like the gov bought alsaka and the entire Midwest. No instead of buying large tracts of land the gov is buying individuals homes. same principle.
While I agree it is not clear cut, trying to prove it is unconsitutional is a waste of time because the clause gives Congress plenty of cover.
unseen on September 21, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Don’t forget the executive branch oversight that should have been there but that appears to have been out-to-lunch.
KentAllard on September 21, 2008 at 11:56 PM
KentAllard on September 21, 2008 at 11:52 PM
actually I kept my 401k in the money market throughout. My IRa I used 100% of it to by Gamestop at 35.ish and sold most at 39.00ish sold the rest at the open for 41.ish.
My individual account I bought some call options on MS and citibank on thursday afternoon after the rally started. sold those thursday at the bell due to options expiration.
unseen on September 21, 2008 at 11:57 PM
“Congressional Democrats began to set their own terms on Sunday for a plan to rescue the nation’s financial institutions, including greater legislative oversight of the Treasury Department, more direct assistance for homeowners and limits on the pay of top executives whose firms seek help.
Financial companies were already lobbying to broaden the plan. And the Bush administration did indeed widen the scope by allowing the government to buy out assets other than mortgage-related securities as well as making foreign companies eligible for government assistance.”
Great. I get to pay my neighbor’s mortgage for him. And his credit card bills and his car payment. And I get to make sure that some German guy’s pension is secure.
I would really like to know what the alternatives are. Because I’m not willing to believe that the people who got us into this mess are telling us the truth now or not simply using this to push some other agenda. Well, clearly the aren’t and they are.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/business/22paulson.html?ref=business
Bennett on September 21, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Great. I get to pay my neighbor’s mortgage for him. And his credit card bills and his car payment. And I get to make sure that some German guy’s pension is secure.
Bennett on September 21, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Well it is either that or pay for his section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare check, and Wic check, as well as his school lunch program etc. And if you are one of the lucky ones to have a job when it is all down without a bailout you will be thankful for that.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:01 AM
For those shorts who thought it would drive the prices up, sure. But if they thought the bailout was going to drive prices up then that is what the original commenter was saying, I’m just not so sure that short-covering was a major factor in the run-up (more than usual in such market moves).
Personally, I don’t really know what to make of Thursday and Friday. We’ll see what happens tomorrow. Asian markets seem to be doing okay, now.
progressoverpeace on September 22, 2008 at 12:02 AM
You forgot Medicaid. The poor have had insurance for quite awhile now.
Sapwolf on September 22, 2008 at 12:03 AM
This is a very unusually Hotair thread, at least as of late, as I am actually learning some things from the comments here.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 12:05 AM
You forgot Medicaid. The poor have had insurance for quite awhile now.
Sapwolf on September 22, 2008 at 12:03 AM
yes your right. And all that addtional spending would more than likely bankrupt the USa and make us the next Argentina. so while I am against this bailout on principle I understand the urgent need and will support it to prevent a bigger crisis/collapse of everything I, my family, my state and my country has worked for for the last 60 years. I refuse to think that the human emotion of fear should be allowed to destroy all the work that the USA has done over the course of decades.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:10 AM
Asian Markets
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 12:11 AM
The government caused this problem and is unlikely to be the solution, IMO. After government inefficiency and incompetence is factored into this bailout, only the size of the federal government, our tax dollars, could only allow the possibility that it might have some effect. Newts proposal is far more practical while not simultaneously leading us deeper into socialism. If the government fails to repeal Sarbanes-Oxley and assign responsibility to the guilty parties of our government responsible for this mess in the first place, throwing money at the problem isn’t going to actually solve the underlying problem, only create a new socialist program to manage the damage indefinitely.
I fear that this “solution” is only going to make matters worse somewhere down the road, probably sooner rather than later considering the other factors currently affecting our economy such as energy.
Besides, the real-estate market needs to fall. It’s been in the stratosphere for years, buoyed by irresponsible lending practices mandated by the government, and before things can truly improve, IMO, it needs to reach some level of equilibrium more inline with reality.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 12:14 AM
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:10 AM
I do think that giving the Sec of treasury unlimted power to spend $700billion at his/her discretion is just plain wrong. there needs to be oversight of him and then oversight of the poversight. and monthly aduits. And a firm timetable to end the program. be it 2 years or 5 years. and the checkbook should not be open ended. I also think that banks should never again be allowed to get too big to fail. though this may cause us to be at an economic disadvatage to the rest of the world. esp with sovergien wealth funds flooding the economies with their money.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:15 AM
fear that this “solution” is only going to make matters worse somewhere down the road, probably sooner rather than later considering the other factors currently affecting our economy such as energy.
Besides, the real-estate market needs to fall. It’s been in the stratosphere for years, buoyed by irresponsible lending practices mandated by the government, and before things can truly improve, IMO, it needs to reach some level of equilibrium more inline with reality.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 12:14 AM
yes agreed and I fear the same thing. the problem is that the alternative is worse. Like our presidential elections we must choose the lesser of two evils once again IMO.
I also agree that homes prices have to fall or incomes have to go up. since the competitoon for labor around the globe says incomes aren’t going up homes prices have to fall. but there is a difference between a crash and a slow deflation of the bubble. and that difference is huge in the scheme of things. the bialout if not correctly will allow the bubble to deflate or stay a little inflated for years. If not done the bufddle will impolde and things go from bad to worse. History shows that choas will destroy far more than is ever rebuit from the ashes. 95% of human achievments have been wiped out by war, depressions, and sickness. It is not a mouth I would willingly walk into if there is anyway to aviod it.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:21 AM
Given that the Federal Government is several trillion dollars in debt, no they don’t already have the spare cash. Even from the less scary perspective of the current deficit (several hundred billion), no they don’t have the money.
They do, however, have the power of the printing press (which is a large part of what caused the problem in the first place), and the power to tax (another part of the problem).
It will be expensive – and their estimates are traditionally low balled – and you and I will pay for it, like it or not. (I don’t.) The S & L bailout in the early 1990s cost the taxpayers $150 billion. This will likely be 10 times that, or more.
Jeff Perren
JDPerren on September 22, 2008 at 12:21 AM
“Well it is either that or pay for his section 8 housing, food stamps, welfare check, and Wic check, as well as his school lunch program etc.”
Where are you getting that we’re not already paying for a lot of that? And what kind of people do you think were put into those subprime loans? All the super marginal people, the ones who got into a $400K house with no money down on a phony stated income loan app have already defaulted and been foreclosed on. They’re already back in an apt somewhere or home living with Mom and Dad.
All Congress has to do, if it wants to “help the homeowner” is roll bank the BK code revisions it put through a couple of years ago. Then borrowers can file 7, discharge all the unsecured debt, and protect their homes. It’s a time-honored system and worked really well until the Banks and the credit card companies got into Congress’ pockets.
Banks can take short pays or rework the mortgage loans to make them affordable which is what they would be doing if they weren’t counting on the American taxpayers to bail them out. And if Banks have to writedown their portfolios as a result and their stock takes a hit, that’s the cost of doing business. And everybody holding the bad paper in the form of securities, the market exacts its price, just like it does when a pharmaceutical company sinks millions into a drug that doesn’t get FDA approval or any other business that makes bad decisions.
Bennett on September 22, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Here’s the White House’s list of “flares”:
Flares: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/09/20080919-15.html
More info.
More info.
From Rush’s article above (be sure to read it all):
unclesmrgol on September 22, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Friends and fellow Conservatives, I have to confess all of this economic disaster escapes me? This is not my field of expertise remotely…all I know about Economics is keep taxes low and do not spend what you have…
I know some of us are doom and gloom and some of us are optimistic sorts…I really do not understand much of this and thus I am in the dark…
Is this financial disaster that is possibly impending the economic 9-11 of our times???
Is it that serious? Could it rival 1929 or worse?
Thanks for any insight you can offer this economic illiterate!
Dev from Canada
Albertanator on September 22, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Good point, but I still prefer a market solution such as Newts. Open the valve on the capital, tar and feather those responsible and then undo the regulatory damage they’ve caused.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 12:30 AM
That’s a good point. I can’t think of any major, or even minor thing of the top of my head, that has gone up more in
valueprice over the last decade or so. Houses are still priced very high.KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 12:33 AM
Quite a number of years ago I worked in the IT department of a fairly major bank and in the 3 years I was there it bought out 2 other banks and when I left it was in the process of being bought out by another bank. I think it was an industry wide trend.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 12:36 AM
Real key here is that they are NOT changing any of the behaviours which caused this problem in the first place.
The bail out will happen, but the Dems will still push for loans for those who can not pay them back… all in the name of “fairnes”.
And I will guarentee, that all of those who were complicit in this debacle, will get re-elected to Congress.
Sad fact, but true.
Romeo13 on September 22, 2008 at 12:38 AM
Good point, but I still prefer a market solution such as Newts. Open the valve on the capital, tar and feather those responsible and then undo the regulatory damage they’ve caused.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 12:30 AM
yeah i just read Newts. He has some very good ideas. the problem is the markets can not wait for congress to debate. The time to debate was last oct, nov,dec,jan,feb,mar,apr,may,jun,jul,aug. The Congress did not do its duty. Now due to thereinability to do their job we are at a major crisis. The market needs to flush this bad paper. the US gov is the only ones to take it on the chin. All of newts plan can be drafted after this crisis is over. like I said I am not thrilled with the plan on the table but compared to what will happen if we do nothing. It is a great plan. So congress failed in its job. It protected its friends with the housing bailout instead of the taxpayers and made the problem worse. this is two years of democratic leadership. god help us if we get another 4 years of total democratic control.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:39 AM
That’s a good point. I can’t think of any major, or even minor thing of the top of my head, that has gone up more in value price over the last decade or so. Houses are still priced very high.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 12:33 AM
I take it you have not been to a gas station lately?
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:40 AM
Sad fact, but true.
Romeo13 on September 22, 2008 at 12:38 AM
I not sure about that. Last I heard only 7% agreed with the bailout. This kind of thing tends to cause massive changes in Congress. While only 1/3 of the Senate is up for graps. The dems have more to lose in the House. so we could be looking at a divied Congress. which would be great for us.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:43 AM
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, the pessimist fears this is true.
Tav on September 22, 2008 at 12:43 AM
it that serious? Could it rival 1929 or worse?
Thanks for any insight you can offer this economic illiterate!
Dev from Canada
Albertanator on September 22, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Yes.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:43 AM
What is really cool.. In Washington they have these really cool printing machines. You just turn them on and out comes money.
Dasher on September 22, 2008 at 12:44 AM
good post:
Today, Barack Obama broke his silence on the mortgage bailout long enough to publicly decry the “staggering price tag” of $700 billion.
Pardon me if I scratch my head at his choice of terminology, considering Mr. Obama has proposed over $1.4 Trillion in new spending programs should he win the White House this November.
If the $700,000,000,000.00 price tag on the treasury bailout is “staggering” to Mr. Obama, I wonder what word we should use for his proposal of $1,400,000,000,000.00 in new spending programs.
Let’s make this an open thread.
http://www.redstate.com/
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 12:44 AM
Yep. Dodd, among others, should be run out of town on a rail, but instead the media, (so I’ve heard), is treating him like a wise man and seeking his sage advice. Most Americans will probably never learn of his roll in all this, or if they do, the people in his district will probably fail to take it into consideration at the voting booth. They’ll probably even be grateful for his leadership in perpetrating this bailout.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 12:47 AM
I ride a horse everywhere.
No, actually I was to a gas station just a couple of days ago.
When I was a kid gas cost about 40 cents a gallon, now about $3.60. Nine fold increase.
Back around then my folks house cost about $20,000 brand new, now that house, getting pretty old now, would probably go for at least $400,000. Twenty fold increase.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 12:50 AM
We’d have to go hide in a secret enclave way, way over the mountains…that will be where the good and productive people live… and we will shut down the engine of the world…I think I read a book like that once :-)
nyrofan on September 22, 2008 at 1:00 AM
Interestingly that was caused by the emergence of the two wage-earner family.
Connie on September 22, 2008 at 1:00 AM
I use to say that! Seeing you say it just made me lift my shoulders a little higher and puff out my chest.
Saltysam on September 22, 2008 at 1:02 AM
Connie on September 22, 2008 at 1:00 AM
I think that the adding of close to half of the adult population into the labor force created inflationary pressure and has made it even more difficult to raise a family with one wage earner.
Saltysam on September 22, 2008 at 1:05 AM
That was a part of it (there were actually two wage-earner families back then although not as high a percentage), not the cause.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 1:08 AM
The lust for all the bobbles and bangles is what made it “more difficult”.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 1:10 AM
From Peter Creswell’s blog, Not PC, a quote from F.A. Hayek, writing in 1932:
JDPerren on September 22, 2008 at 1:11 AM
I’ve long thought the same. But that’s only one factor and probably not the biggest considering current home prices.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Now I know why nobody talked about who was in charge at Freddie and Fannie and why nobody talked about the government mandating banks make loans to unqualified minority buyers, on any of the Sunday talk shows.
The same people who caused this are now going to fix the problem they created. In secret.
Frightening.
PattyJ on September 22, 2008 at 1:14 AM
I think that the biggest danger in all this is that at some point, like if we keep debasing our own dollar for example, countries like China and the oil rich gulf states will decide that they don’t want to subsidize Americans living beyond their means.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Silly question.
Is this it!?
Is this the rock that knocks loose the boulder of socialism that liberals have wanted hung over our heads for so long?
Is ten trillion in immediate debt the magic number that forces the credit shut down of free capitalism and ushers in necessitated nationalizing of private institutions?
Or is that just wild exaggeration?
Speakup on September 22, 2008 at 1:23 AM
My grandpa used to say, (paraphrasing very broadly), that Henry Ford’s credit program, which enabled more people to buy Model T’s, was a foot in the door for artificial market forces to influence the previously natural system of our economy. I’m not up on the history, but I believe credit was fairly rare and only became common after that program was instituted. Prior to that, incomes and savings limited the price of homes and other necessities. If they inflated beyond what people could afford the prices would quickly correct. Throw credit into the mix and price ceilings move further away, necessitating still more credit—-and eventually irresponsible lending practices. The prevalence of two income families seems to have had a similar result.
In the long run nothing has been achieved but a credit market build on a foundation of shifting sand. Now they want to pile more money onto the same hoping that the pile will be spread out thin enough that the sand won’t be such a problem. What actually needs to be done is to upgrade the foundation with cement seated firmly on bedrock.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 1:33 AM
(Updated)
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 1:35 AM
Your grandpa was wise. Easy credit is like beer. Some is good for you. Too much gives you a hangover. Way too much kills you.
Tav on September 22, 2008 at 1:39 AM
Especially considering that it was a leftist program that started this mess in the first place. Now we’re going to reward them with another big leap into the socialist state they desire?
I wonder, if I borrow my neighbors lawnmower and break it, what will he say when I tell him I might as well keep it.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 1:42 AM
My grandpa used to say, (paraphrasing very broadly), that Henry Ford’s credit program, which enabled more people to buy Model T’s, was a foot in the door for artificial market forces to influence the previously natural system of our economy.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 1:33 AM
Yeah but I would rather live in post Model T America than pre model T america. It was credit and inflation and the profit motive that helped make this country the technology leader of the world.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 1:43 AM
Never borrower nor a lender be – Shakespeare
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 1:43 AM
The first thing we do is kill all the
lawyerspoliticians – ShakespeareTav on September 22, 2008 at 1:50 AM
Yeah, I agree to an extent. My grandpa grew up during the Depression, I didn’t. There are also some advantages to credit, but it has become an drug addiction in the guise of a vitamin supplement for many and has led us to this problem. It’s time for an intervention, and the drug dealer shouldn’t be allowed to mediate the process.
FloatingRock on September 22, 2008 at 1:50 AM
Amen brother!
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 1:52 AM
Skynet you magnificent b******!
Limerick on September 22, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.
- Groucho Marx
MB4 on September 22, 2008 at 1:58 AM
Now that you can take to the bank!
- Jack Benny
MB4 on September 22, 2008 at 2:01 AM
MUST READ REPORT.
OBAMA campaign “caught” astroturf/smearing PALIN
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194057.php
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:01 AM
LOL…232 years of practice.
Limerick on September 22, 2008 at 2:01 AM
ace as more. the caught PF firm are pulling the videos..amazing…this is what OBAMA is like people. dirty underhanded socialist scum…
http://www.ace.mu.nu/
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:02 AM
more at red state by Moe Lane:
http://www.redstate.com/
this story is big. Real big. this could bring the bounce of Palin back. If Obama campaign is shown to be attacking Palin with lies and smears and the press has been a willing partner in it See the NYT piece calling her a member of the AIP. This could change alot of voters minds. this story must get out. Hello Rush do you hear us?
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:07 AM
Does anyone been watching what’s happening with world markets right now?
Kini on September 22, 2008 at 2:10 AM
Growing up, my folks taught me that if you don’t have the money to buy something, you go without it until you do. They never used credit cards (never had any) and wouldn’t even get a loan to buy a car – they’d wait until they had enough money saved away for it. As a result of this frugality, we were one of the few families on our block that could afford things like snowmobiles, motorcycles, and yearly vacations. My parents’ generation were a lot smarter about handling money than the Boomer generation (my generation).
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:11 AM
Does anyone been watching what’s happening with world markets right now?
Kini on September 22, 2008 at 2:10 AM
It is not important yet. Asia is simply following our lead from Friday. Since they did not have time to catch up to the surge on Wall Street on Friday and no real new news has been added to the mix. the real action will be the second hour of trading in europe and of course the trading on Wall street. Asis and Europe to some degree are now following the US’s lead. Since the bailout is coming from the USa they will react to us not us react to them/
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:15 AM
If you Gringos knew what was good for you, you would put all your dinero into pesos right now. Oh, and also aprender espanol. Don’t forget that as you will need it before you think.
VinyFoxy on September 22, 2008 at 2:16 AM
I’ve self employed over 20 years, own my home outright. I use no credit cards of any kind. I pay all my bills with cash. If I don’t have cash on hand to make a purchase my wife and I save for it.
AMartinez on September 22, 2008 at 2:16 AM
Nine scariest words in the English language.
I’m from the government an I’m here to help.
-Ronald Reagan
Bogeyfre on September 22, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Unfortunately, the MSM will cover their a$$ and bury the story. That’s the beauty of having the media in the tank for you.
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Nine scariest words in the English language.
I’m from the government and I’m here to help.
-Ronald Reagan
Bogeyfre on September 22, 2008 at 2:19 AM
The way the economy’s going, we may want to hold off on that fence – we may need to look for work “south of the border”. :)
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:20 AM
Astroturfing we can believe in.
Enoxo on September 22, 2008 at 2:21 AM
See 12:11 AM and go from there.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 2:21 AM
Unfortunately, the MSM will cover their a$$ and bury the story. That’s the beauty of having the media in the tank for you.
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Drudge should pick it up. If he does expect Rush and other talk show hosts to pick it up. At the least the base will hear and like I said it could give a bounce back to Palin. Some like eyeore have had second thoughts on Palin since all these things have come out. If it is shown to be lies by Obama expect the base to rally around our Sarah even more. could be a bump in fundraising also. Remember the dan Rather documents? the dems have a problem with lies and fakes and it is in the minds of many Americians. Thus the attempt by the media and Obama to paint McCain as lying. It diffuses the attacks on BHO of doing the same thing.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:23 AM
report up at
http://patterico.com/2008/09/21/potential-bombshell-was-obamas-chief-media-strategist-david-axelrod-behind-an-astroturfing-campaign-to-promote-a-false-youtube-smear-against-sarah-palin/
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:25 AM
some more at LGF
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31325_Jawa_Report-_Orchestrated_Grassroots_Smear_Campaigns
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:27 AM
I agree and we can only hope that it gets ratcheted up to a point where the MSM can’t ignore it and are forced to comment on it one way or another. The best thing that’s happened this year is that conservatives (as a whole) have finally caught up with and (IMO) surpassed liberals as far as using the Internet and other sources to get our information: We’ve had to because we know we can’t count on the liberal MSM to give us the straight story.
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:29 AM
the folks running Hotair must be sleeping. No post for it yet. first we have 60,000 at speech confirming that Palin is still a very hot canidate. Now we have a report which could well turn many clinton supports totally off of Obama has they start to think did he do that do us also? the same report could make the next speech 70,000 or 80,000. The MSM has an oppurtunity here to show that they are not 100% in the tank for Obama. I doubt they will take it.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM
The best thing that’s happened this year is that conservatives (as a whole) have finally caught up with and (IMO) surpassed liberals as far as using the Internet and other sources to get our information:
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:29 AM
the liberals are not helping their cause using the internet. First the Palin email hack, then the hack at Oreily’s website, not this astroturfing. Not a good thing. what the liberals seem to have forgotten is that the majority of AMerician do not consider elections WAR. They want and expect a friendly yet confortational election. More like a fencing match or a tennis match, they expect some combativness they look down upon a war mentality. You can go too negative. I think BHO and the media stepped over the line with Palin. And continue to do so at an alarming rate. the American people will not stand for it I hope.
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:35 AM
oh…good zinger by Palin:
Obama “likes to point the finger of blame,” she said, “but has he ever lifted a finger to help?”
oh another one:
When it comes to reform, he says ‘I will,’ but has he ever been able to say “we did”?
and another:
John McCain,” she said, “is the only great man in this race.”
more please
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/orl-palin2208sep22,0,5823576.story
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:38 AM
Especially when Obama is trying to promote himself as a new kind of politician who is above the petty partisianship and pledged that he wouldn’t go negative.
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:38 AM
Especially when Obama is trying to promote himself as a new kind of politician who is above the petty partisianship and pledged that he wouldn’t go negative.
Dagnar on September 22, 2008 at 2:38 AM
Last week Obama tried to deflect himself from the negative ads he was airing by suggesting it was McCain that was lying. It got tot he point at the end of the week that even the Media was saying that Obama was going overboard.
Of course not all of them but Fox was in the forfront and even CNN at times. the question is: If Obama continues to sink in the polls will the Media turn on him to save themselves. IT is what liberals do. Notice Kerry in any campaign events?
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:43 AM
I thought this post on ace’s site expalins the ramifications of this:
oh man, marty, can you imagine if someone had an ad on youtube about Obama being a muslim? And the voiceover matched the work of Mccain’s ads?
Can anyone imagine the backlash over that?
Posted by: Shill at September 22, 2008 12:51 AM (8jYMc
http://minx.cc/?post=273935
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:50 AM
now they are cleaning up axlerod’s wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Axelrod_%28political_consultant%29&diff=240163857&oldid=239928600
unseen on September 22, 2008 at 2:58 AM
heh — they’re not doing a very good job — astroturfing is stil front and center there …
/wieghs logging into wiki and wreaking minor havoc, decides not too ’cause 1. it’s late and 2. dave’s gonna have a pretty crappy monday anyways why pile on needlessly?
:-)
:-)
Buckaroo on September 22, 2008 at 3:42 AM
Sept. 19 (Bloomberg) — As the U.S. government takes stronger measures to stabilize financial markets, some former Federal Reserve officials, lawmakers and Wall Street executives are saying too much has already been done.
“Every time they intervene, they do more harm than good,” said Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital in Darien, Connecticut, a brokerage that manages $1 billion.
Critics of the rescues agree that government actions, such as those that prevented the failures of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and American International Group Inc., can’t postpone the inevitable worsening of housing and financial markets. They say the bailouts by the Fed and Treasury also encourage future reckless risk-taking by investors.
“If we don’t stop now, there will be no end,” said Gerald O’Driscoll, a former vice president of the Dallas Fed and now a scholar at the Cato Institute in Washington. He joins Vince Reinhart, former director of the Fed’s monetary affairs division, and Marvin Goodfriend, a former official at the Richmond Fed in questioning the market interventions.
KentAllard on September 22, 2008 at 4:07 AM
“You Are My Sunshine” made famous by, and generally attributed to, Governor Jimmy Davis, the Singing Governor of Louisiana, though his claim of authorship is disputed by the Wiki people. A signature depression era tune if ever there was one which is why I find it’s mention here sadly ironic.
Nyog_of_the_Bog on September 22, 2008 at 4:50 AM
Sweet,sweeet noob.
Print money? BEEEN doing that.
No, TexasDan, when we went off the gold standard—THANK YOU DICK—- we gave up any hope that will ever, EVER, EEEEEEEVER pull out of the next big GreatER Depression. Nope. We are in this mire, penny and pound and we are going DOWN.
Its been fun y’all.
I am headin’ to the retreat property to hole up and wait for the Golden Horde.
seejanemom on September 22, 2008 at 7:14 AM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 Next »