ABC: Bush officials support Obama’s account that he didn’t try to undermine negotiations with Iraq
posted at 4:14 pm on September 19, 2008 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Good work by Tapper to try to get to the bottom of this. Ed’s been covering this beat, not me, so I’m behind the curve on the specifics, but read the excerpt and let’s see if we can untangle this.
Lending significant credence to Obama’s response [to the charges that he tried to interfere with negotiations] is the fact that — though it’s absent from the Post story and other retellings — in addition to Obama and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, this July meeting was also attended by Bush administration officials such as U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker and the Baghdad embassy’s Legislative Affairs advisor Rich Haughton, as well as a Republican senator, Chuck Hagel of Nebraska…
A Bush administration official with knowledge of the meeting says that during the meeting Obama stressed to Maliki that he would not interfere with President Bush’s negotiations concerning the US troop presence in Iraq, and that he supports the Bush administration’s position on the need to negotiate as soon as possible the Status of Forces Agreement, which deals with among other matters US troops having immunity from local prosecution.
Obama did assert at the meeting with the Iraqis that he agrees with those – including Hagel and Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., the ranking Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee — who advocate congressional review of the Strategic Framework Agreement being worked out between the Bush administration and the Iraqi government, including the Iraqi parliament…
It’s possible, Obama advisers believe, that either Zebari or columnist Taheri confused the Strategic Framework Agreement, which Obama feels should be reviewed by Congress, with the Status of Forces Agreement, which Obama says the Bush administration should negotiate with the Iraqis as soon as possible.
Two officials of the Bush administration say that if Obama had done what the Post story asserted – which they believe to be untrue – U.S. Ambassador Crocker and embassy officials attending the meeting would have ensured that the Bush administration heard about it immediately. If such an incident occurred in front of officials of the Bush administration, it would have constituted a foreign policy breach and would have been front-page huge news; it would not have leaked out two months later in an op-ed column.
See this WaPo story from April about the difference between the Status of Forces Agreement and the Strategic Framework Agreement. The SOFA deals with military matters like withdrawal; it’s executive branch territory per the president’s role as C-in-C, which means if a legislator like Obama meddles we have ourselves a violation of separation of powers. The SFA is more ambiguous, touching on “cooperation in the political, economic, cultural and security fields” with an eye to long-term relations between the country. That’s more like a treaty, which the president can negotiate but which the Senate gets to approve per its right of advise and consent. Obama’s camp is insisting, and the Bushies who were there seem to agree, that he kept his mitts off the SOFA — no calls for delay or anything else regarding troops levels — while emphasizing that the Senate wants a look at the SFA before the agreement is finally ratified. Why he felt the need to stress that latter point with Maliki and Zebari isn’t immediately clear to me, though, unless he was hinting that they should bear in mind that whatever deal they reach with the Bush administration will have to satisfy Democrats too and that they should therefore calibrate their negotiations accordingly.
Which prompts the question: How far does the Senate’s power of “advise and consent” reach? I’ve always understood the treaty process to exist in two stages, the first of which happens exclusively between the president and the foreign power in negotiating the terms and the second of which happens between the president and the Senate in wrangling over ratification. If the Senate wants to add or subtract terms, they let the president know and then it’s up to him to go back to the foreign power and rework the deal. Obama’s cutting out the constitutional middleman here and going directly to the foreign power himself, which isn’t necessarily a major breach (the Iraqis surely already know the Democrats want a say in the SFA) but which, coming from a guy who might be president in six months, is bound to be taken by Maliki et al. as a heavy hint that they should be thinking less about how to please Bush in their negotiations and more about how to please The One and his deep blue Congress. Which does undermine Bush’s executive authority.
Or am I simply wrong about the Senate’s advise and consent power and Obama was well within his rights to be chatting with Bush’s negotiating partner about a treaty in the works? Fill me in, constitutional scholars. First, though, here’s a special treat for you from June of this year. It’s a long clip but you only have to watch the first two minutes, paying special attention at around 1:30. Exit question: If The One is so scrupulously observant of presidential prerogative, what’s he doing here claiming that the SOFA has to be approved by Congress?
You must be logged in to post a comment.

















Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
Bush Admin taking the higher ground? (Because it’s an election year?)
“Hmmm” indeed.
Weebork on September 19, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Hey, as an Indiana resident let me be the 1st to say Lugar is out of touch and probably slept through whatever meeting he attended. And Hagel, well what can you say?
Onager on September 19, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Other Logan Act violators:
Hoyer – meeting and negotiating with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
Pelosi – meeting with the Syrians and the Iranians in Damascus
Congressman James McGovern (D., Mass.),meeting with the FARC at the behest of Pelosi in Colombia and Ecuador
elduende on September 19, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Bush Administration = the ultimate compassionate conservatism.
It is sickening, but we tend to always take the high road.
carbon_footprint on September 19, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Is this face saving by the Bush administration? And trying to protect the delicate relationship with the Iraqi’s. I’m always ready to believe the worst about Obama. And I am rarely disappointed.
Which makes me unreliably biased I supose.
petunia on September 19, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Way to go, Dubya. We can always depend on George to shoot himself in the foot. Again.
ManlyRash on September 19, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Why does everything this idiot does, seem to go *poof* off into the night? He is never held accountable for anything.
anniekc on September 19, 2008 at 4:22 PM
More of the president kissing the a** of the enemy, the DNC.
Sickening.
madmonkphotog on September 19, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Omaba is in bed with the Chimpy McHitlerBurton lying liars!
innominatus on September 19, 2008 at 4:22 PM
The point is that Obama new that you couldnt split the 2 agreements. So jumped on one that “perhaps” you could put off and at the same time knock the knees out from the other:
That Obama was aware that the two accords couldn’ t be separated is clear in his words to NBC:
So basically he knew that putting one off would ineveitably put off the other. Thats like me calling my mechanic and asking him to put off taking out the heads from the motor but go ahead and replace the pistons.
broker1 on September 19, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Bush always bends over backwards to be fair and compassionate with Democrats and they stab him right square in the back with a twisted, sharp dagger every time.
carbon_footprint on September 19, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Both the NYP reporter and the Iraqi minister have credibility issues. Doesn’t surprise me.
lodge on September 19, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Getting the truth out before a 527 accuses him of meddling.
csdeven on September 19, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Accuses him as in accusing Oslime-a of meddling.
csdeven on September 19, 2008 at 4:26 PM
The video.. Obama, “Uhhh, err.. ahhh.. uhh.. er.. ummm , er.. I uhhhh er.. talked to.. ummm er… ummm.. begin ummmm… er… ahhh.. uhh the ahhh… progress ahh”
This guy needs a teleprompter.
Chakra Hammer on September 19, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Yeah, I wanted to comment and say “shut up,” earlier but I would have been the first one and didn’t want to start it out like that. Now I feel better about saying “Thanks W.”
Oink on September 19, 2008 at 4:27 PM
I dunno. I guess I’m inclined to believe the words of Obama’s reps on this matter.
When they attempted to refute the claim that Obama had asked Maliki not to work with the Bush administration, they basically admitted that Obama had asked Maliki not to work with the Bush administration.
The fact the Bush admin is either covering it up or missed the exchange altogether looks bad on them, but does nothing to make Obama look better since his camp already admitted that it took place.
JadeNYU on September 19, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Bush practices each across the aisle diplomacy. That’s what you want with McCain too, isn’t it?
Fletch54 on September 19, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Thanks for nothing guys, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
YellowDawg on September 19, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Bush practices reach across the aisle diplomacy….
Fletch54 on September 19, 2008 at 4:30 PM
They weren’t or couldn’t prosecute anyway and the information is out there. You don’t believe it, I don’t believe it so the point has been made. It falls into the template of Sen. Obama taking everything for granted and taking cocky to a whole new level. Can Chuch Hagel retire quickly enough?
Cindy Munford on September 19, 2008 at 4:31 PM
John Kerry, Tom Harkin met with Daniel Ortega
Chakra Hammer on September 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Why are Bush’s poll numbers in the tank, even with Republicans?
…..uhm….maybe because of shit like this.
FiveWays on September 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM
For God’s sake! I’m sick and tired of Lugar and Hagel being trotted out as “Republican” spokesmen whenever the left wants to claim the GOP is backing up whatever leftie idea or claim is out there in the media. Lugar and Hagel are RINOs who are, in actuality co-conspirators with McCain in undermining many conservative values and initiatives. They are not to be trusted.
P.S. McCain was out there saying he’d fire Cox as head of the SEC. The only way that makes sense if McCain is using the economic situation to get payback at one of the conservative thorns in his bitter liberal hide. McCain is still probably a better pick than Obama but this premature attempt to punish anybody who thwarted the cranky old bastard during the last eight years should be a cautionary tale about what is going to happen if he wins in November. Mark my words now. If John McCain is elected the US Government will go on a seek and destroy mission against the evangelical right for no other reason than McCain hates them for opting to vote for GWB in 2000.
highhopes on September 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Fixed that for you
YellowDawg on September 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Don’t let the door hit ya in the ass, W…..
FiveWays on September 19, 2008 at 4:34 PM
depends on who you ask, George Washington would’ve said “F that” while James Madison would’ve said the Senator as alot of say. Both were at every day of the Constitutional Convention, then as POTUS they had a stand off over it. regarding the Jay Treaty I beleive.
Washington sided with the Hamiltonian vision here, Madison was on the side with Jefferson who hated Britain and wanted to ally with France instead, so they wanted to undermine what Washington did
jp on September 19, 2008 at 4:34 PM
It’s also possible that Obama is also confused about a great many things.
m064404 on September 19, 2008 at 4:35 PM
His own team confirmed the story. What more do you really need?
TheBigOldDog on September 19, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Stab him in the back?
Palooka George let’s them walk right up and kick him in the nads…
SuperCool on September 19, 2008 at 4:36 PM
So does this mean that Zebari and Maliki don’t agree? Or did Obama meet separately with Zebari before or after the meeting with Maliki and the Bush people, and tell Maliki one thing (when other witnesses were present) and Zebari another, when no one else was around? Did Obama try to get Zebari to undermine his own Prime Minister, as well as try to undermine the President?
Amir Taheri might want to look into this…
Steve Z on September 19, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Thanks Bush. No wonder your numbers are so low.
Elric66 on September 19, 2008 at 4:38 PM
Oh sure….the Harmony Report gets released and proves that Saddam was harboring, training and funding Al Qaeda sudsidiary groups, and does Bush say a word about it? ….nope.
But when Barry’s in trouble; what does Bush do?
He races to the mic.
Thanks W……you never fail to let me down.
FiveWays on September 19, 2008 at 4:38 PM
One bureaucrat covering the as# of another bureaucrat…….. and who says that any gaffe of Obama wold ever make front page news?
Seven Percent Solution on September 19, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Yeah, his back is reserved for McCain’s knives.
Fletch54 on September 19, 2008 at 4:39 PM
I believe what Politicians tell me? They get together on a regular basis and decide what to say for public consumption. What do we tell the People so they don’t panic? or stampede or REVOLT.
Dr Evil on September 19, 2008 at 4:40 PM
I’m glad that the Republican administration is willing to stand up and be decent. The story was iffy from the beginning, although it’s clear that Obama has trouble keeping the SFA and the SOFA straight.
Get thee to a teleprompter!
Abby Adams on September 19, 2008 at 4:41 PM
so……just how many moles does the DNC have in The Bush Administration?
seriously…..
FiveWays on September 19, 2008 at 4:42 PM
I generally like Tapper, but this:
is beyond stupid. Really? It would have been front-page news in the MSM that The One committed a major diplomatic blunder?
Yeah. And if you pull my finger, a lovely potpourri scent emanates from my squeakhole.
Centerfire on September 19, 2008 at 4:43 PM
Hagel wants a seat at the liberal table, so he’s hedging his bets like a good little sucker in case Obaro wins.
Bishop on September 19, 2008 at 4:45 PM
Whatever the “explanation”, let’s not waste any further time bogged down in a losing issue. If GOP Administration representatives were on hand, then let’s accept the fact Obama did nothing illegal, and then move on.
It isn’t as though we don’t have enough ammunition on hand to utterly discredit this clown on any number of additional issues. Today was a great day for McCain (with all of his devastating ads re Fannie/Freddie, etc), and an equally disastrous day for the MESSIAH……Let’s concentrate on what will stick!
alwyr on September 19, 2008 at 4:45 PM
This sure has the smell of a red herring that was dangled in front of the McCain folks for a few days with hardly a nibble…. very curious.
CC
CapedConservative on September 19, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Chuck Hagel is a Republican? News to me.
Jdripper on September 19, 2008 at 4:47 PM
John Jay in Federalist Papers No. 64:
The long and the short of this is that Obama only interfered if Bush thinks he interfered. End of story.
tommylotto on September 19, 2008 at 4:48 PM
Commence traditional Hotair back pedaling in 3…2…1…
Dave Rywall on September 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Uh, I thought Barry was supposed to be a great communicator… if so, then how could he be misunderstood?
Romeo13 on September 19, 2008 at 4:50 PM
Does Bush need to be reminded that these are the people who want him impeached for war crimes?
ctmom on September 19, 2008 at 4:50 PM
wonder if the ‘establishment’ has told Obama he can be president, but only if he brings the left around on FP related stuff
jp on September 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM
OK BUSH IS IN THE TANK FOR OSAMA ,LOVELY!!!!!
Marines for Mccain on September 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM
Does Obama have the ability to put a coherent sentence together without pauses, umms, ahhhs etc.? So much for Harvard’s English Department.
At least President Bush never said he was articulate.
dalec on September 19, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Bush just doesn’t want to be accused of racism.
johnsteele on September 19, 2008 at 4:52 PM
Okay….I’ve figured this out;
Based on their speech patterns…..
Bush is really Obama’s daddy.
That would explain all of this.
FiveWays on September 19, 2008 at 4:54 PM
Let’s not forget about good ole “Baghdad Jim” McDermott.
dont taze me bro on September 19, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Ding! We have a winner!
I surely hope that the Bush admin wasn’t behind feeding this story to the NY Post to try to get McCain to jump on it …
funky chicken on September 19, 2008 at 4:57 PM
Is this the Bush administration swallowing a turd in order to show a united front, no matter what? It’s good international politics, you never air your dirty laundry. If Obama did what is alleged, it cannot be publicized so as to show we’re weak, it’s that simple. If it’s true, he’ll get away with it in order to salvage our standing in the international community.
JeffWeimer on September 19, 2008 at 4:57 PM
I think that people probably jumped the gun here a little bit. I am sure that Bush would have made an issue of it if he had believed that Obama was messing with the process. But Obama has not come out of this looking to slick himself. A little ham fisted there.
Terrye on September 19, 2008 at 5:00 PM
sigh, just like all the leaks to the NY Times of the serious classified stuff were never chased down (the one about how they tracked terrorist money transfers, terrorist phone calls, and the name of the guy who interrogated KSM, among others)
I still haven’t decided if the Bush admin failures on stuff like this come from ignorance, arrogance, or a sad combination of the two.
funky chicken on September 19, 2008 at 5:02 PM
Chakra Hammer on September 19, 2008 at 4:32 PM
yeah I forgot about those two cretins.
Let’s not forget about good ole “Baghdad Jim” McDermott.
dont taze me bro on September 19, 2008 at 4:55 PM
yeah we could go back a while to see leftist treason all the way to Kennedy’s KGB contacts on the nuclear freeze issue in the early 80s
Unfortunately the ones we’ve named have come since the Congress fell into enemy hands 2 years ago.
elduende on September 19, 2008 at 5:04 PM
This is just more proof that Bush is clueless about my former party. Absolutely f***ing clueless! The man cannot grasp that the dumbocrats are as great an enemy to the Republic as Islam, Russia, NK, etc.
calguyintexas on September 19, 2008 at 5:08 PM
Well, all you can say is that this issue is so garbled up that it has now been neutralized and is of no value to the McCain campaign.
There’s a mountain of damaging material on BHO so it’s time to move on…
CliffHanger on September 19, 2008 at 5:11 PM
News to him too. He has the party loyalty of, well, McCain. Okay on some issues but utterly untrustworthy when it comes to support of bedrock Republican values.
highhopes on September 19, 2008 at 5:11 PM
Drywall climbs out of his mom’s basement to make another illogical and fundamentally dishonest insult. This blog has been giving Obama the Benefit of the Doubt on “Advice-gate’ since the story broke, but a Tool like you doesn’t read the info or the replies.
Janos Hunyadi on September 19, 2008 at 5:20 PM
I don’t see it yet…. you might stop when you reach the number of states Senator Obama is going to carry Nov 4.
CC
CapedConservative on September 19, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Drywall thinks Obama will carry all 57…58….59….
FiveWays on September 19, 2008 at 5:24 PM
…. still
CC
CapedConservative on September 19, 2008 at 5:26 PM
(spraying Coca Cola out my nose)
CC
CapedConservative on September 19, 2008 at 5:27 PM
It looks like McCain better start doing some homework before jumping on the bandwagon with ads against BO repeating the same crap that’s in the MSM.
ballz2wallz on September 19, 2008 at 5:32 PM
Is it simply that the Iraqi government wants a continuation of support from U.S. forces and doesn’t trust an Obama administration to carry through? Don’t forget they were not particularly enamored of Biden’s idea to split up into 3 states, which would have been completely counter-productive.
Connie on September 19, 2008 at 5:44 PM
I think Tapper is acting as a mouthpiece for Obama again on this one. Obama did not meet with Maliki with Crocker present. He had dinner with Talabani with Crocker and Petraeus. In fact the pics Tapper links to have the headline of Obama meeting the Iraqi president, thats not Maliki. Follow the following link to a McClatchy article thats says Crocker was NOT in the meeting with Maliki and Obama.
Zaggs on September 19, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Here is the address that did not make it into my post http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/44985.html
Zaggs on September 19, 2008 at 5:53 PM
Come to think of it, the best thing for a good-looking Bush “legacy” would be to have Osama Obama be the next president….
After four years of that, even Democrats would be pining for the days of W.
MrScribbler on September 19, 2008 at 6:00 PM
I thought the claim was that Obama said these things in private.
aikidoka on September 19, 2008 at 6:30 PM
The difference between us and them: Now that this has been debunked, we’ll stop talking about it like it’s true.
Well, most of us.
Jim Treacher on September 19, 2008 at 6:45 PM
After the slap on the wrist for Sandy Berger, I simply don’t believe the Bush admin on this any more.
They will cover for Barak’s treason just to avoid the conflict.
Cowards.
Spartacus on September 19, 2008 at 6:47 PM
It’s Hagel that has that confused, hazy look of someone who just woke up from his nap.
nyrofan on September 19, 2008 at 6:50 PM
Hey ! Wait a minute! I thought that every word that comes out of the Bush administration is a complete lie. So if they say he didn’t then according to the leftwing media he did try and slow down the withdrawal process. So he’s lying and the George Bush is trying to cover for him.
BruceB on September 19, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Lincoln woulda dropped this passel o’ dopes on Pea Patch Island and forgot about ‘em.
Akzed on September 19, 2008 at 8:13 PM
Commence traditional Hotair back pedaling in 3…2…1…
Dave Rywall on September 19, 2008 at 4:49 PM
Drywall climbs out of his mom’s basement to make another illogical and fundamentally dishonest insult. This blog has been giving Obama the Benefit of the Doubt on “Advice-gate’ since the story broke, but a Tool like you doesn’t read the info or the replies.
Janos Hunyadi on September 19, 2008 at 5:20 PM
—-
OMG the King of Hungary takes a break from fall turnip harvest to come and smack me down instead of Hotair for slamming Obama without merit. Nice work, your highness.
Dave Rywall on September 19, 2008 at 8:27 PM
We found out yesterday that “Dave Rywall” is actually Heather Mallick, and those aren’t her real boobs.
Nice try Heather, on both counts, but no cigar.
Akzed on September 19, 2008 at 8:38 PM
We found out yesterday that “Dave Rywall” is actually Heather Mallick, and those aren’t her real boobs.
Nice try Heather, on both counts, but no cigar.
Akzed on September 19, 2008 at 8:38 PM
—-
ha ha ha you’re funny. You have no contribution to the discussion, just an ad hominem attack so that you chatline buddies will think you’re tough. Congrats.
If that obnoxius cow Mallick was to post here, you can bet she’d have the guts to use her real name like, say, me, instead of some fake name like Akzed.
Dave Rywall on September 19, 2008 at 8:42 PM
I think there is still a problem here. The video from June at 9:06 does show a reporter specifically asking about the “timetable for the SoFA” and Obama saying just at the end..” we’re probably better off not trying to complete a hard and fast agreement before the next administration takes office.”
Deanna on September 19, 2008 at 8:53 PM
For Tapper to refer to Hagel as a Republican is deceitful, if not factually dishonest. For two officials of the State Department to attempt to deceive the administration in favor of a leftist Democrat during a campaign is … easily believeable.
Still, you have to accept their very clear denial of the Iraqi version. I can’t say why with any clarity, but you just have to.
Jaibones on September 19, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Forget the SOFA. I’m more interested in a nice Comprehensive Hearing About Iraq Solution Entanglements and Leveraged Operational Unity Negotiation Guaranteed Efficacy. That’s right… The C.H.A.I.S.E.L.O.U.N.G.E.
Now back to our show…
Captain Scarlet on September 20, 2008 at 4:43 AM
Bush shoots himself in the foot while in motion kicking McCain’s backside.
Unlike McCain, Bush’s military training as a pilot did not involve experience in combat. And painfully it still shows. You’d think Bush would learn when to apply Nancy Reagan’s advice; “just say no” to the urge to explicate when silence is golden.
maverick muse on September 20, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Tremolos
maverick muse on September 20, 2008 at 8:59 AM
You do have to wonder though why did it take Bush administration officials to come up with this story when the Obama campaign itself couldn’t? It’s no secret that there are a lot of folks in the Administration who do subterfuge from within and their desire to see a Democrat get elected is no secret.
promachus on September 20, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Hey, as an Indiana resident let me be the 1st to say Lugar is out of touch and probably slept through whatever meeting he attended. And Hagel, well what can you say?
Onager on September 19, 2008
Agree. Lugar is long past it and needs to step aside for someone younger and better than him. Congressman Mark Souder comes to mind, but I don’t know if he would want the job. As for Hagel…I almost stepped on a Hagel on the sidewalk the other day. I would have needed a stick to scrape it off my shoe.
SKYFOX on September 20, 2008 at 10:13 AM
Disappointing.
cryptojunkie on September 20, 2008 at 11:24 AM
The whole thing sounds fishy to me. I get the feeling that Bush has come out to say Obama is innocent just so that he doesn’t have to prosecute him during an election year. The wisdom of that tactic, if indeed that is the situation, remains to be seen.
Can we talk about Palin’s tanning bed now?
Browncoatone on September 20, 2008 at 11:30 AM
I just wouldn’t trust Bush with this. He has this, “we need to be above all this bickering” thing going on some times. Like when he moved into the White House and ignored the vandalism and theft. That mentality isn’t a virtue.
JellyToast on September 20, 2008 at 12:15 PM
jp,
I’d like to explore that further. Can you provide some references or source material?
Thanks,
Jeff Perren
JDPerren on September 20, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I wonder what any of these people think of Oblahblah’s attempt to initially lie about this.
91Veteran on September 20, 2008 at 4:51 PM
O’Same.
Ronnie on September 20, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »