Report: Feds zeroing in on Palin e-mail hacker; Update: Suspect’s father denies he’s been contacted
posted at 5:37 pm on September 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Exercise caution, as it’s a serious charge and there’s no proof of guilt yet.
But let’s just say that if it pans out, we’ll be playing the ultimate round of “Name That Party!”
The son of state Rep. Mike Kernell has been contacted by authorities in connection with a probe into the hacking of personal e-mail of vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, Kernell told The Tennessean.
Kernell, a Memphis Democrat, said his 20-year-old son David had been contacted by authorities investigating the hacking of Palin’s personal e-mail account, the newspaper reported on its Web site this afternoon.
Jim Hoft notes that one of the boss’s commenters was pointing in this direction last night. Here’s what “rubico” had to say about his motive, per MM’s reproduction of his comment in yesterday’s post:
I read though the emails… ALL OF THEM… before I posted, and what I concluded was anticlimactic, there was nothing there, nothing incriminating, nothing that would derail her campaign as I had hoped, all I saw was personal stuff, some clerical stuff from when she was governor…. And pictures of her family
I then started a topic on /b/, peeps asked for pics or gtfo and I obliged, then it started to get big
Earlier it was just some prank to me, I really wanted to get something incriminating which I was sure there would be, just like all of you anon out there that you think there was some missed opportunity of glory, well there WAS NOTHING, I read everything, every little blackberry confirmation… all the pictures, and there was nothing, and it finally set in, THIS internet was serious business, yes I was behind a proxy, only one, if this shit ever got to the FBI I was fucked, I panicked, i still wanted the stuff out there but I didn’t know how to rapidshit all that stuff, so I posted the pass on /b/, and then promptly deleted everything, and unplugged my internet and just sat there in a comatose state
He can’t be an experienced hacker if he used only one proxy and, er, left identifying code in the screencap he took. Stand by for updates. Exit question: Slap on the wrist for a first-term offense thanks to daddy’s connections, assuming Kernell’s the guilty party?
Update: Via Stacy McCain, Kernell’s father says no one’s contacted him or his son about the case — although he’s vague when asked if his son’s involved in any way.
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Odds are this is just a punk acting alone and not some great Left Wing Conspiracy. Though I’ll admit that I wouldn’t shed any tears if the kid pointed the finger at Soros.
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 6:13 PM
Prosecutorial jurisdiction is unclear in this case, but if it were to be prosecuted in Memphis, acting U.S. Attorney, Lawrence Laurenzi is a tough and good prosecutor. That office has been prosecuting politicians left and right the last few years, including a successful prosecution of Harold Ford, Jr.’s uncle, State Rep. John Ford. A whole slew of Tennessee politicians are now in prison or will be moving in soon. Assuming this kid is guilty, I wouldn’t be so sure he can get off with a slap on the wrist.
flyfisher on September 18, 2008 at 6:13 PM
anniekc, I don’t know about the laws in WI where the tires were slashed, but here in La. that would have been a felony too – WELL over $250 in damage.
Laura on September 18, 2008 at 6:13 PM
From the first link:
Anything for a story, right? This is the same Associated Press who refused to cooperate with the FBI, but they’re emailing a suspect.
Buy Danish on September 18, 2008 at 6:14 PM
If he’s guilty, it’s a felony. doesn’t matter.
Chakra Hammer on September 18, 2008 at 6:14 PM
This from the people who think the Patriot Act is the most egregious intrusion of privacy ever!
Tap the phones of terrorists: Bad
Hack a Republican VP Candidates email account: Good.
TheBigOldDog on September 18, 2008 at 6:16 PM
Are there no federal laws against corruption of the election process, via fraud or other criminal acts?
progressoverpeace on September 18, 2008 at 6:17 PM
FYI Sakaki.. Young got it. :(
upinak on September 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM
I don’t “feel” for the “kid” at all. He knew what he did was illegal as did the AP who protected the source of the illegal info.
clnurnberg on September 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM
This kid “hoped” to derail her campaign! I wonder who put him up to that? Somebody who talks about “hope” a lot?
Indeed–send the FBI and let him see what F’d means! Like two burly G-men giving him a choice between spending Christmas in jail or telling them who told him to do this, then let him squeal like a pig without lipstick!
Steve Z on September 18, 2008 at 6:19 PM
No, it’s in there, you just have to look for it.
I would have thought it would be a bigger headline on his site, though.
Kevin71 on September 18, 2008 at 6:19 PM
From the Hacker..
as he Hoped, he hoped that he would find dirt but didn’t find anything..
Chakra Hammer on September 18, 2008 at 6:20 PM
You know right from wrong by 20. Enough with the “kid” stuff. We’ve got soldiers fighting and dying that age.
Spirit of 1776 on September 18, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Isn’t that called being an accomplice after the fact?
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 6:20 PM
+1+eleventy!!1!!11!
Laura on September 18, 2008 at 6:20 PM
Obama’s stooges doing his dirty work for him. Obama shouts ” Who Will Rid Me of This Meddlesome Priest” and his minions spring into action
skree on September 18, 2008 at 6:21 PM
republicans do not have civil liberties
custer on September 18, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Perhaps not for democrats.
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 6:21 PM
FOX News update:
Hume just said on a commercial bumper: “We have an update soon on the Sarah Palin email investigation.”
We’ll see if it hit’s Fox.
Damiano on September 18, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Dan Rather never got prosecuted, will this kid?
jp on September 18, 2008 at 6:22 PM
Are there no federal laws against corruption of the election process, via fraud or other criminal acts?
progressoverpeace on September 18, 2008 at 6:17 PM
Those prosecutions were primarily the result of the Tennessee Waltz case in which a series of politicians were caught accepting bribes! Both Republicans and Democraps were prosecuted. I went to law school with former U.S. Attorney David Kustoff and he is an upright man of integrity.
flyfisher on September 18, 2008 at 6:23 PM
meant with his headline, it should be in Bold Red and stating in headline its son of DEMOCRAT State Rep.
preferably
jp on September 18, 2008 at 6:23 PM
Yes, I just took the time to look it up. It was more serious than I had recalled. There were about 20 vehicles disabled by tire slashing. The five involved were all PAID JOHN KERRY CAMPAIGN WORKERS.
Each of them eventually got sentenced to about four months in jail.
Maxx on September 18, 2008 at 6:23 PM
How long before the father comes out and tells the press he wants them to “respect his son’s privacy” during these troubling times?
Kevin71 on September 18, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Palin E-mail Hacker Targeted Family and Staff, Investigators Say
No update yet on Democrat Hacker Kid
Damiano on September 18, 2008 at 6:24 PM
flyfisher, wasn’t Teh Fred! instrumental in all that?
Laura on September 18, 2008 at 6:24 PM
The evidence presented on Malkin last night is very compelling. That’s all we really have other than your partisan speculation, right? How is that not identical in intent to his partisan speculation of digging around hoping to find dirt (according to the evidence) that compelled him as well? Do not take us down that road.
Since you brought it up, yes, this kid (according to his own writing) probably had a rough life; boo-frikkin-hoo. I specifically said ‘generational’ because though us older folks may have had a rough life, back then there wasn’t an infinite number of baseless places to expend that negativity (with seemingly no consequences) such as there is out there now.
The whole point of consequences and making an example through (selective) prosecution is to change that generational group think. Perhaps this will, if severe enough.
xyzzy on September 18, 2008 at 6:24 PM
Disgusting little voyeur.
Terrye on September 18, 2008 at 6:25 PM
What are the chances that the IP was traced to the wrong TN address and the culprit is actually John “Silky” Edwards?
We can dream, right?
Damiano on September 18, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Oh please, oh please, let him squeal like a pig! It would be a beautiful thing to hear it was tied to Soros…….
sigh. One can always dream.
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 6:26 PM
This, my friends, is going to be the Eagleton option for the democrats. Let me explain:
The Chicago thug machine was hoping to find something in those emails make no mistake about it. The talking points about Sarah using a Yahoo! account to do state business is straight from the Obama headquarters. Too many people off the jumpstart were using that line for it to be a coincidence. This person(s) will end up being connected with Biden in some fashion. He will resign from the VP slot so Obama can name whomever he wants to take his place. The only part that didn’t fall into place was that there was nothing there in the emails.
SouthernGent on September 18, 2008 at 6:28 PM
Oh, sorry. I need a beer.
Kevin71 on September 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Kinda looks like a moose caught in the headlights don’t he?
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM
He hacked into her email, because he wanted to do damage to the campaign, NOT because the poor baby had a rough life. Sorry
clnurnberg on September 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM
This kid’s gonna be on Oprah as a hero strikin’ back against the vile forces of rethuglicanism.
I’m getting tired of Libs floutin’ the law and walking scot-free.
Iblis on September 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM
Dan Rather has the luxury of claiming he believed the manufactured document was real. This 20 year old has no such similar excuse.
But what’s worse about the Dan Rather thing, is that the person that manufactured the document was never prosecuted either, I don’t believe.
Maxx on September 18, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Not to my knowledge. Most of that case happened after he left the Senate. However, I am under the impression he recommended David Kustoff to be the U.S. Attorney, so he was involved in that sense. FYI, Fred’s son and David Kustoff were in the same law school class at Memphis State. Fred graduated from Memphis State as well.
flyfisher on September 18, 2008 at 6:31 PM
Thanks for the info. I was just wondering if you knew of any strong federal laws related to corruption of the election process, itself (not corruption of the politicians). Everyone has been talking about hacking crimes (which have minimal penalties) and I want to see the kid prosecuted under much stronger laws relating to the very integrity of our voting process. I wasn’t sure if such laws really existed (since Dan Rather was never threatened with anything) and I would be really disappointed if this gets rung up as a computer crime, when it’s an electoral crime of a far more dangerous nature.
progressoverpeace on September 18, 2008 at 6:32 PM
He’s gonna make some bad man and damn fine girlfriend soon.
Damiano on September 18, 2008 at 6:32 PM
If he’s guilty, he should spend the next 5-10 in SanQ getting “the jailhouse lovin’” he so richly deserves by a narco-gangster doing life just like anyone else would.
Hopefully, he’s just the tip of an iceberg, the first domino, the top of a house of cards if you will, in bringing down the rotted to the core Democratic machine.
Wouldn’t it be nice to see Dean or Soros or Axelrod take the perpwalk?
SuperCool on September 18, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Rethuglicanism? Too much. We prefer to be known as winners.
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 6:33 PM
It’d be a big story if the late night guys would get into it. And if it was a Republican on Democrat you can bet they could build it into a running bit. But I don’t see anyone but us continuing with it unless Obama himself is implicated. And even I think that unlikely.
Although a pre-impeachment trial in the congress would be my first choice. Removable as nominee anyone?
petunia on September 18, 2008 at 6:35 PM
They didn’t name him on FOX
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 6:35 PM
Just saw that too. Maybe they are playing it safe and waiting for something official from SS or FBI.
Kevin71 on September 18, 2008 at 6:38 PM
That actually looks like your common everyday scape goat to me
He looks to young to care enough about politics to do something like this… and the boy can write. Much better than the age in that picture would indicate.
More questions than answers.
petunia on September 18, 2008 at 6:39 PM
Change “hacker” to “Democratic operative”
faraway on September 18, 2008 at 6:40 PM
and you know what’s really sad? I could e-mail copies of this story to every lib I know and they would dismiss it. There is nothing too ugly to steer them off their “I hate George Bush” mania. Obama has slime oozing out of every pore and they think he’s the better option to the dreaded, “Republicans”
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 6:40 PM
You mean he has horns?
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 6:41 PM
makes me wonder if Yahoo itself was involved in it..
Yahoo’s stock has been collapsing, this “kid” has mental problems and he probably doesn’t care if he goes to jail or takes the fall..(he probably see’s himself has a hero, and the left will see him as one, Obama and liberals love terrorists like William Ayres)
Chakra Hammer on September 18, 2008 at 6:42 PM
College students are huge Obama backers and that this one may have broken to law sifting for info to bring down Palin shows that he cares very deeply about Obamnunism
clnurnberg on September 18, 2008 at 6:42 PM
I dub thee, Yahoogate!
TheBigOldDog on September 18, 2008 at 6:44 PM
amerpundit on September 18, 2008 at 5:44 PM
I wonder if this kid beeen able to figure out the answers if all of the Palin Family information had not been posted out on the net??
Gracelynn on September 18, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Ask them how they can be so concerned about the Patriot Act and wiretapping terrorists and not care about a VP candidate’s email account has been hacked and published on the Net.
TheBigOldDog on September 18, 2008 at 6:47 PM
Another dem kid in trouble
ConservativePartyNow on September 18, 2008 at 6:48 PM
About time our side of the fence gets to coin a -gate phrase.
/sarc
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 6:49 PM
I think this could be Obama’s “Watergate”. Wouldn’t that be something?
jdawg on September 18, 2008 at 6:50 PM
This is a private family matter and obviously should stay out of the press, you, you callous… unfeeling…
/ sarc off
clnurnberg on September 18, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Punishment? How about working for bathtub boy at MSNBC. They would hire him in a heartbeat.
Fuquay Steve on September 18, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Intercepting Newt Gingrich’s cell phone call when he was being hounded by investigators worked out great for Dems, so why not have another “innocent random third party” hack an email account when Palin is being investigated by Dem lawyers? The cell intercept felony only resulted in $500 fines. That’s well worth the money to destroy a GOP enemy or swing an election, right?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n7_v13/ai_19147783
econavenger on September 18, 2008 at 6:52 PM
I had a couple more thoughts about the U.S. Attorney’s office in Memphis. At one time the U.S. Attorney here was Hickman Ewing, who ran the Arkansas portion of Whitewater for Ken Starr. While U.S. Attorney, he prosecuted Harold Ford, Sr. in a public corruption case involving a high profile and politically connected banker, Jake Butcher.
After Attorney Ewing, the U.S. Attorney was Ed Bryant, who later ran for Congress and ended up as one of the House prosecutor’s during Bill Clinton’s impeachment case.
Of course those men are gone, but my point is the U.S. Attorney’s office for the Western District of Tennessee has a long history of taking on the politically connected.
flyfisher on September 18, 2008 at 6:53 PM
He was fifteen in the pic; he’s twenty now.
Laura on September 18, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Senator 0bama, what did you know, and when did you know it?
The Monster on September 18, 2008 at 6:59 PM
What, expect CONSISTENCY from the left?
The left doesn’t really have anything that resembles a “principle” except abortion on demand, raise taxes, and stalinism.
wildcat84 on September 18, 2008 at 7:04 PM
Didn’t we have a president resign for essentially the same thing and for the same reason? Plumbers anyone? Jail time?
jerseyman on September 18, 2008 at 7:04 PM
If Obama or Biden follow the Nixon/Plumbers route, who will pardon them?
jerseyman on September 18, 2008 at 7:05 PM
Well, well…
Two Democrats adult children caught while involved with felonies in one week.
So, how many days this the MSM crow about Palin’s pregnant daughter again? How many Dems tried to argue that it was “fair game”?
Funny… when it’s their own kids and actual crimes are involved; it becomes a “private, family matter” and the media backs off.
Damiano on September 18, 2008 at 7:05 PM
And this expresses my fear. Until we get more Meghan Kelly’s out there, the Media at large have the control. The truth is, we need a edge in the MSN and we just have it.
I was appalled today on the stories by AP on this and on the so called “troopergate”. This is our real problem. Yes we have here, yes we have other ways to get information, but by and large that is not happening in the public at large.
Noelie on September 18, 2008 at 7:06 PM
So… what’s the penalty for being a menace to society?
Since he’s the son of a State Rep and all, I’d mercifully grant a request for a blindfold.
T J Green on September 18, 2008 at 7:08 PM
Oh big old dog! (what a funny name- makes me think of my old girl, Ruby!) My lib friends would feel perfectly justified that any means necessary are fine if it means shutting down “THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION” The libs are rabid this year- it’s the same logic that has them thinking Snobama is running against Sarah Palin. I hope there isn’t, but I think there will be broken friendships over this election.
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Okay then. Old enough to have an affair with a President! I say go after him full speed ahead then. Is he pregnant? That would be too good.
petunia on September 18, 2008 at 7:09 PM
Ok. I can’t let some punk 20 year old kid take credit for something I did. I told GS that I didn’t think anything would come out of it, but he said BO wanted it done, plus the 20 grand from BO’s campaign looked mighty good.
P.S. you can forward this to AP and ABC . I think they’ll pay big money for an interview. I’ll just say JMc paid me to say all of this. It doesn’t matter that I answer one lie with another> They are too crooked to let that bother them.
BruceB on September 18, 2008 at 7:10 PM
The son of a state representative is not just a punk doing mischief. How old is he? Twenty-years-old is just old enough to do some time in prison for what is now-a-days considered a terrorist act — breaking into security systems.
AdrianS on September 18, 2008 at 7:11 PM
I am the VP of technology support for an internet services company, which means we do web site development and hosting. I don’t give a fat rat’s patoot whether whoever did this (whether it’s the kid or not) was working from political motives. Well, actually, I do, but aside from that…
I hope the perp gets strung up by the heels to the full extent of the law for this. It’s these kinds of kiddie-games-of-the-immature that keep me having to spend massive amounts of time and energy making sure our systems are secure, instead of actually developing websites for people.
Yeah, yeah, it goes with the business… but we need to start making examples somewhere. This sounds like a good place to start.
psrch on September 18, 2008 at 7:12 PM
The consistant theme is DEATH TO THE INNOCENT! Kill unborn babies, kill BORN babies, kill the defenseless and helpless (Terry Schiavo), and kill the elderly who are a burden (Oregon euthenasia). Healthcare is a means of controlling and expanding these practices. When it costs too much to keep you alive, the govt insurance will pay for the doctor assisted abortion, suicide, euthenasia. Higher taxex limit your options and Stalinism sums it up in one word. Lambs to the slaughter.
jerseyman on September 18, 2008 at 7:12 PM
I think a suit should be filed against AP. It can’t be legal to use illegally obtained information. Aren’t these the people who are so concerned about privacy? The Hypocracy simply doesn’t stop.
petunia on September 18, 2008 at 7:15 PM
It cost him a bit more that $500.00:
That being said, it’s still a small price to pay for what he did.
Buy Danish on September 18, 2008 at 7:15 PM
Would it be wrong of me to say that reading this part was like taking a bite of the most delicious angel food cake and savoring it? I cannot stop laughing at the thought of this mofo sitting in his room with cat5 cable in hand when the reality of what he had done set in! HAHA! -sigh-
Codec717 on September 18, 2008 at 7:16 PM
That’s a fine reason to make an example of him. It’s as much as to say, “You know that point at which we stop making excuses based on youth and start treating men and women as adults? You 20-year-olds passed that point more than two years ago.”
Kralizec on September 18, 2008 at 7:18 PM
It’s a bit soon to be donning the old tinfoil hat. It’s very highly unlikely that Yahoo would compromise their reputation in such a way.
I doubt the left will see him as a hero- mostly because he didn’t turn up anything incriminating. Had he found something damaging to Palin, then sure- he’d be a hero to the left. Since he didn’t, and has admitted he hacked her account for political reasons, he’ll be thrown under the bus for making them look bad.
Hollowpoint on September 18, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Remember in the movie”War Games” where the kid disconnected his phone line and then went to get a coke and who meet him when he came out of the convince store?
BruceB on September 18, 2008 at 7:19 PM
I think we just spotted the problem with the American legal system.
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 7:20 PM
OK, to all you dimwits who will be satisfied that jusice will be served if some 20-year-old gets his butt raped, listen up:
There is NO WAY that this young man acted alone.
This event goes up the line in the Democratic Party……way up.
This crime is no less serious than the crime that brought down the presidency of Richard Milhaus Nixon.
Every Republican at every level of government must immediately demand justice for these heinous acts.
jay12 on September 18, 2008 at 7:22 PM
Switch to De-caf man, your paranoia meter is way too high.
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Go back to your bunker.. The glare from your shiny metal hat is blinding the rest of us.
xyzzy on September 18, 2008 at 7:24 PM
Jay 12: Why couldn’t he have acted alone? He wanted fame and glory and figured he would get it if he found some dirt.
On your side however, is the plaintive tone he used to bemoan that he found nothing and that he sifted the files to find this nothing. Why shop this “story” if there was none? Why make such a case for looking so damn hard for wrongdoing if someone didn’t expect your efforts to pay off.
As for me, I’ll go with the lone wolf sociopathy theory until I learn something to the contrary
clnurnberg on September 18, 2008 at 7:26 PM
No grounds for a suit as far as I can tell. Obstruction of justice for refusing to release the emails, possibly, but I doubt it.
The good news is that even if evidence of wrongdoing were actually found, Palin would be exempt, since it was obtained illegally. The bad news is that pieces of crap like AP will run with the media trial anyhow, even with a lack of evidence.
Damiano on September 18, 2008 at 7:27 PM
The liberals see it as hacking “her account”, however they don’t see it as hacking Yahoo! which is what they should be seeing it as.. Yahoo!’s Weak a**ed security..(or IF Yahoo! or someone from inside Yahoo! was working with this guy, then maybe Palin would be owning the Company) >:D
Chakra Hammer on September 18, 2008 at 7:27 PM
Internet vs. Cable News…. Internet Wins This Round!
Shep just looking at his blackberry and reading as he threw to commercial that this was “breaking” (the whole state rep. son thing)…. I see Allah posted this a full 2 hours ago. Haha. Shep even looked up to the camera at the last second before commercial and held up his blackberry, as if to show off how on top of the breaking news he truly is.
RightWinged on September 18, 2008 at 7:27 PM
I think that Annie Oakley may be getting a bit big for her britches
KentAllard on September 18, 2008 at 7:28 PM
And for the record, CanadianGuy and I were also pointing to his direction.
carbon_footprint on September 18, 2008 at 7:29 PM
Shep is such a tool
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 7:29 PM
For hacking the personal email account of a candidate for national office, who is under the protection of the Secret Service? I say send Jethro Gibbs after the kid, then throw the book at him.
tgharris on September 18, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Exactly, it’s the same as someone illegally recording your phone conservations “wire tapping”.. However, this is worse, had probably credit card information, had phone numbers, photos, all kinds of stuff..
Chakra Hammer on September 18, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Can it be a really BIG book, you know, like an atlas or perhaps a federal income tax manual?
Browncoatone on September 18, 2008 at 7:32 PM
He’s gonna love meeting Bubba.
GarandFan on September 18, 2008 at 7:33 PM
That might cross the “cruel and unusual” line.
tgharris on September 18, 2008 at 7:34 PM
It doesn’t completely add up to me. I have been thinking about this for hours since Canadian Guy twigged to him last night and I started digging myself.
The kid is a chess player. He is serious enough that he has a decent rating from the U.S. Chess Federation. He plays tournaments regularly as well. Does this very amateurish attempt at hacking sound like the efforts of a chess player to you?
Chess players by nature think ahead. They innately use strategies that are designed to defend their important pieces while sacrificing other in order to gain an advantage. This kid smells just like a pawn that is being sacrificed in gambit for a bigger advantage.
While I cannot prove it I would almost bet this kid went along with all of it from the start. He knew he would become the scapegoat and also know that the system would only give him a slap on the hand because of his “troubled” past. In exchange he gets his fifteen minutes of fame in a big way and becomes a cult hero to the young hacker crowd. He can make some cash telling his story and pay very little in return.
It smells a ton like an organized plan to me. The only thing that messed them up is that they didn’t get anything juicy to smear Palin. So their operatives at Associated Press had to settle for the “Is it appropriate top use public email for government business?” angle.
Hawthorne on September 18, 2008 at 7:34 PM
I am awaiting the next headline from AP : Highly intelligent, sensitive, contrite and coerced hacker to be prosecuted as an adult.
Fuquay Steve on September 18, 2008 at 7:34 PM
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