Those of you arguing each side about a “war” need to be reminded of something. Something that amazingly neither political side seems able to remember. Something the media would NEVER admit.

We aren’t AT WAR. We invaded Iraq, kicked a murderous tyrant to the curb, and helped the locals whom we prefer to attempt to start over. All that took less than 6 months. The condition we have been in since that time is NOT WAR. We remain an occupying body providing a forced modicum of stability while the locals get their act together. We are killing enemies of the revised Iraqi governmental structure, whether they be foreign or domestic enemies. In effect, we are the substitute Homeland Defense force until they have an effective one of their own.

Whether it is “RIGHT” or “WRONG” for us to be doing so, it is not a state of WAR, and it angers me everytime I hear a conservative use the term. The “war in Iraq” ended in a blink, the occupation has lasted the intervening time. And as a reminder, how long did we remain in Japan after our invasion succeeded? How long in Germany? How long in Korea?

Answer: We have maintained a military presence in each of those nations continuously since. Can anyone say that we are still “at war in Germany”, “at war in Korea”, “at war in Japan”? No, so speak honestly about events in Iraq, and refuse to allow others, even pols from our side of the aisle, to do otherwise.

/rant

And btw, not all Muslims are your enemy.

Terrye on September 19, 2008 at 7:23 AM

Which ones. That is the problem

we need our intellectual academies to turn out our future social and political leaders. We can’t do without them and prosper, and we haven’t had them in our court for the past 50 years. My $.02.
JiangxiDad on September 19, 2008 at 8:26 AM

We have them. They just haven’t been allowed to control intellectual academies, the media or arts. The hard part is convincing them to try again

I heard Michael Medved describe the movies of the earlier era. They were shown over the world and they celebrated America. They lionized average Americans who showed courage and sacrifice and initiative. Today’s medium despises America and presents Americans as someone I don’t recognize, wimps who cry and tremble when faced with danger or corrupt bullies hurting the multicultural others.

If we took a cruelty free trap and baited it with lots of arugula and put it down in the northeast corridor, would we catch liberals or rockefeller republicans? My guess is both and they would graze peacefully together in a spirit of gentle harmony as long as the lettuce kept coming

In other words, you are a contradiction. You say you are conservative when it comes to illegal immigration and Russia…and yet you sound like John Kerry or Barack Obama when it comes to Iraq.

Terrye on September 19, 2008 at 7:23 AM

I just seem to be a contradiction to someone with dull perceptions.

I realize that you hate all Muslims, as if they were a race. I have read Robert Spencer too and while I respect the man, I think his views of Islam are very much like Hitchen’s view of Christianity: hostile and narrow.

Terrye on September 19, 2008 at 7:23 AM

You sound worse than the most extreme “liberal” that I have ever heard. At least they don’t normal accuse someone of hating a race unless there is actually a race involved. At least I have to give them that. I can’t even give you that.

Harvard is now a dirty word, and with very good reason.

JiangxiDad on September 19, 2008 at 8:26 AM

A traditional, classical liberal education has been replaced with radical, liberal political philosophy.

ernesto on September 18, 2008 at 11:12 PM

Many big cities, like New York, are just being monitored by its current residents. The greatness lies in the people who are dead who built the cities and made them what they are. The people currently residing in these cities just make them depressing.

San Fran is a good example of this. The middle class is gone or leaving. It’s a ghost town at night, except for the bums. If it weren’t for people, now dead, who made that city great and made it a thriving community, no one would want to live there.

You should really read Atlas Shrugged. It dissects this big city complex quite well.

lorien1973 on September 18, 2008 at 11:17 PM

Lorien. I agree with you 100%. As a lifelong NY’er, I have had the very same thoughts about the city for almost two decades. It is an elaborate Epcot, depicting a late 19th, early 20th C. great American city.

As for Ernesto’s earlier comments, I agree with him to a certain extent. The term “elites” has become so discredited today, because it often describes those who share no values with the bulk of the population, and who have forgotten from whence they sprung. That’s where the derision aimed at E. Coasters derives. But, we also can’t survive as a country, and have a healthy society, without great institutions like universities, museums, scientific institutes, libraries, etc. and the very highly educated people that inhabit them. We no longer respect and trust our formerly best institutions. Harvard is now a dirty word, and with very good reason.

But we need to revive these kinds of pillars to our civilization. We can’t have them remain as enemies to the state and our common culture. We still need to turn out the best and brightest minds, so we can’t accept that we can simply do without them.

But to say that we just simply have to look towards average people, untainted by radicalism and elitism, regular everyday folks for our future leaders, is to suggest an overly simplified solution to a pressing problem. Just like we need our military academies to turn out future military leaders, we need our intellectual academies to turn out our future social and political leaders. We can’t do without them and prosper, and we haven’t had them in our court for the past 50 years. My $.02.

Note well the NY rally approach at hand. And this is where the damned Islamic terrorists struck America, and “rally” organizers prove to the world that within 7 years time, anything goes.

Were the rally being organized in America’s Heartland, it sure as hell wouldn’t dissolve for ANY politician’s absence or presence.

The Anti-Ahmadinejad Rally became by their own efforts Pro-Ahmadinejad.

By dissolving in the face of Hillary’s decision, the organization behind the defunct “Rally” proved how LAME serious Americans are. Hell, if we can’t even show up to protest Ahmadinejad, how the hell can we be expected to stop him? This rally organizer is a contagious pathetic loser.

The whole planet thought Saddam had WMD, and in fact to this day we do not really know what happened to them.

The larger point was that if we had not gone in there, Saddam would still be out there. The no flyzones would be gone. The Food for Oil program would have made him richer, not poorer. He would have reactivated his wmd programs {why else hide them?} and he could do pretty much as he pleased. That cease fire he violated? Never mind.

I realize that you hate all Muslims, as if they were a race. I have read Robert Spencer too and while I respect the man, I think his views of Islam are very much like Hitchen’s view of Christianity: hostile and narrow.

As for AlQaida, we all know that Baghdad had been a mecca for international terrorists for years. Saddam had a lot of money and he liked to throw it around.He was a menace. And Iraq would have been Somalia with oil if we had not stayed there.

I remember your anger with Bush because he did not do more for Georgia when Russia invaded. Why? After all it is the Balkans is it not? Has it ever been peaceful? What does it have to do with us? In other words, you are a contradiction. You say you are conservative when it comes to illegal immigration and Russia…and yet you sound like John Kerry or Barack Obama when it comes to Iraq.

And btw, not all Muslims are your enemy.

Being godless spawns of satan has got to be rough on ya, ya know? ;)

lorien1973 on September 19, 2008 at 12:21 AM

Not really, if you are a true atheist, you hold to no supream being. If you are a satinist, your just your plain old every day run of the mill agnostic :}

Their appeasment = conversion or submission.

rockhead on September 19, 2008 at 3:12 AM

I’m not sure even conversion would appease their bloodlust.
Military, political, and moral defeat is our the ultimate goal, and it will take a lot longer than seven years. We are in for a long, long journey.

they were brilliant, and they were fools.’”
- Source

MB4 on September 19, 2008 at 3:12 AM

Brains and balls do not necessarily = wisdom. Rummy and Co. had plenty of the first two and little of the last. I have come to both respect and trust SecDef Gates, even outside of the relief from Rumsfeld he brought. He seems to have the necessary mix of all three characteristics. I hope he stays on for a while.

What a vision of leadership that man wasn’t.

trailboss on September 19, 2008 at 3:04 AM

In his autobiography, American Soldier, Franks describes a conversation with his subordinates who were upset with Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Feith; Franks tells them, ‘Here’s the deal, guys. I know OSD – Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith – are demanding a lot. But they are not the enemy. Don’t start thinking good guys-bad guys. We’re all on the same side.’ They could see I was serious. ‘I’ll worry about OSD, all of them – including Doug Feith, who’s getting a reputation around here as the dumbest @ucking guy on the planet,’ I continued. ‘Your job is to make me feel warm and fuzzy. Look, we’re all professionals. Let’s earn our pay.’

Franks shows a military man’s ability to get to the heart of the matter. But Feith isn’t dumb. His defenders, in fact, frequently stand up for him by citing his brilliance. But Franks’ lament is a blunter, less eloquent version of what Fallows wrote in the Atlantic of the office of the secretary of Defense, particularly Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Feith: ‘What David Halberstam said of Robert McNamara in The Best and the Brightest is true of those at OSD as well: they were brilliant, and they were fools.’”
- Source

MB4 on September 19, 2008 at 2:52 AM

That I will do when I’m less bleary eyed.

trailboss on September 19, 2008 at 2:58 AM

Good point and kind of what I thinking about with my “let the libs piss and moan” comment.

Unfortunately there are way to many people that don’t know that these crazy bastards just are not gonna go away or be appeased. Their appeasment = conversion or submission.

- Donald Rumsfeld

MB4 on September 19, 2008 at 3:02 AM

What a vision of leadership that man wasn’t.

On the other hand, in the atmosphere of fear and the ‘unknown unknowns’ that prevailed at the time, it was an easy out.

trailboss on September 19, 2008 at 2:58 AM

There are known knowns: there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns: we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don’t know that we don’t know
- Donald Rumsfeld

In hind-sight maybe the no-fly zones was better.

rockhead on September 19, 2008 at 2:46 AM

The no-fly zones/almost embargo bs was not sustainable. Saddam had to be dealt with sometime, but I don’t think the invasion was the best route. On the other hand, in the atmosphere of fear and the ‘unknown unknowns’ that prevailed at the time, it was an easy out. Take back control of world events, make the Arab world fear us again, make us feel less vulnerable.

Those are powerful motivations, and not susceptible to clear-headed thinking.

Kerry lost the election because he is ugly.

MB4 on September 19, 2008 at 2:56 AM

I now need to stick an ice pick in my ear and go to sleep. ‘Night!

It was why Kerry lost the election: people don’t like flip-floppers, they like leaders with conviction.

MadisonConservative on September 19, 2008 at 2:43 AM

Kerry lost the election because he is ugly.

I imagine you keep it peeled when visiting HA.

trailboss on September 19, 2008 at 2:49 AM

Not needed here. I have other means.

Hey MB4 I think we’re actually pretty much on the same page. That’s why I put win in quotes. Because at this point it’s pretty much a no win situation.

rockhead on September 19, 2008 at 2:46 AM

If you spend more time over at Robert Spenser’s JihadWatch, particularly checking out Hugh Fitzgerald’s writings, we will probably be on the same page. Check out Diana West at Jewishworldreview and it will be even more likely.

MB4 on September 19, 2008 at 2:45 AM

I imagine you keep it peeled when visiting HA.

You’re more the ’slip a turd into the punchbowl’ type.

rokemronnie on September 19, 2008 at 2:41 AM

You should really try to upgrade that part that have have kindly put in bold for you to something more sophisticated or at least something more adult anyway.

Once the strategic error was made, the only “win” we could have in it is to not do what we had done for the previous 25 years. I don’t even know if this matters though.

In hind-sight maybe the no-fly zones was better.

No, I stayed out of range. I think. ‘Course that third eye does seem to be getting bigger.

trailboss on September 19, 2008 at 2:41 AM

My third eye is in the back of my head. Comes in rather handy once in a while.