Biden: Low taxes are unpatriotic; Update: Video added
posted at 8:45 am on September 18, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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While Barack Obama tries to call John McCain a “liar” for saying Obama will raise taxes on a wide swath of Americans, Joe Biden tells America that paying higher taxes is … patriotic? The Democratic VP told Good Morning America today that “it’s time to be patriotic” and start allowing Uncle Sam to take even more of your paycheck:
Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden says that paying higher taxes is the patriotic thing to do for wealthier Americans. …
Biden told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Thursday that, in his words, “it’s time to be patriotic … time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.”
America’s economic woes have nothing to do with taxes. Biden offered a non-sequitur yesterday when asked about the need to bail out AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns. He blamed the problems on tax cuts, which makes no sense at all:
We should try to correct the problems that caused this. And what’s caused this? The profligate tax cuts to the very, very wealthy that John wants to continue. What’s caused this is the failure to have regulation so that, in fact — John talks about these CEOs getting these big bailout packages.
That’s akin to blaming your doctor’s Mercedes for the broken arm you got playing soccer. Tax policy had nothing to do with the credit crisis. They are two completely separate issues. The government did not underregulate the credit industry from a lack of necessary funding, and in any case, the tax cuts produced higher revenues for Washington, not lower revenues. The credit crisis came from bad lending decisions pushed by government mandates, and a lack of oversight driven by lobbyist-fed laziness.
Who were two of the CEOs who got big bailout packages from the Fannie/Freddie GSEs? Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines. Which candidate has them as advisers to his campaign? Barack Obama.
Now Biden wants to tell us that paying higher taxes is patriotic. You know what would be patriotic? Congressmen like Barack Obama and Joe Biden attacking government spending, not trying to beef up government revenues (and doing so in the most destructive way, by attacking capital needed for investment). Biden could be patriotic by revealing his pork-barrel record, something he has consistently failed to do. Who gets Biden’s earmarks? Why can’t Biden be patriotic and forego earmarks?
Most Americans look at their tax bite and figure they’re patriotic enough. They’d prefer electing people who start acting responsibly with their money, rather than demand even more from them to prove their patriotism.
Update: Here’s the video:
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Note the Biden smile? That’s what he does when he thinks he’s played a trump card in a debate. It usually signals a momentous display of cluelessness, as it does here.
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Should people who don’t pay taxes be allowed to vote? Doesn’t that eventually doom the country economically?
marklmail on September 18, 2008 at 8:50 AM
putz!!
grapeknutz on September 18, 2008 at 8:51 AM
Can you imagine having to listen to crap like that for the next 4-8 years? Yikes!
JimK on September 18, 2008 at 8:52 AM
Well, at least the media knows that Joe is “ready”.
The worst VP candidate…ever?
Dorvillian on September 18, 2008 at 8:53 AM
What does that say about the 40% that pays no taxes at all?
JimK on September 18, 2008 at 8:53 AM
Well, at least Biden and Obama’s messages are consistent — “If you don’t pay taxes already, you’ll be fine; if you’re successful, we’ll try to screw you.”
They found phrasing it this way didn’t play so well in Peoria so they’re trying the ol’ “it’s your patriotic duty” one. It’s your patriotic duty to get punished for being successful.
LastRick on September 18, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Look at the audience of GMA. Those sheep believe everything they see. They are probably trying to figure out a way to write an extra check to the IRS as we speak.
Biden knows his target group.
csdeven on September 18, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Increasing Taxes is Un-American
Me thinks Biden/Gaffe,is setting himself
up for a flip/flop!!!
And,Biden should check and see if his
opinion and the Liberal Democratic Party
are on the same page!!!
canopfor on September 18, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Ed, that front page pic cracks me up…Biden looks just like Wallace from Wallace & Gromit.
ManlyRash on September 18, 2008 at 8:54 AM
Leave it to Biden(D) to define patriotism down.
muggedbyreality on September 18, 2008 at 8:55 AM
I suppose that makes communists the most patriotic of all–they don’t keep anythiing they earn.
ahem on September 18, 2008 at 8:56 AM
It’s their patriotic duty to leech off the government. And bitch about not getting “rebate” stimulus checks.
LastRick on September 18, 2008 at 8:56 AM
Is he saying poor folks are unpatriotic because they don’t pay any income tax?
Anyway, I have some feelings about being self-employed and paying both high income tax rates, and the double hit on the social security tax, but I never thought of these feelings as patriotism. Thanks Joe, I feel much better about it now, please tax me more.
forest on September 18, 2008 at 8:56 AM
There was a big fact check on Palin this morning on NBC.
They ever do that with Biden?
Nope
They ever do that with Obama?
Nope.
They mention McCain spoke for reform or that Democrats blocked reform of Fannie Mae in 2006?
Nope.
Is NBC worth a damn?
Nope
drjohn on September 18, 2008 at 8:58 AM
The problem is that Americans get their education from the media, and most media outlets are tanking (George Bush is the reason newspapers are dying, see…), so simplistic arguments like Joe “Big Brain” Biden’s will be parroted by the media and will serve as education to millions.
This is Hugo Chavez’ America, where we are given daily classes in socialism.
I’m pissed.
beatcanvas on September 18, 2008 at 8:58 AM
Where the h*ll is Team McCain on the Fannie/Freddie mess?
They are LOSING this issue when the DEMS created the mess….heavens to murgatroid, Barry has TWO Fannie/Freddie freaks on his team that made MILLIONS off of the taxpayers.
So frustrated to hear Dems lying and McCain sitting there (like Bush did when pounded on Iraq and never responded).
We, the People, NEED you to fight back John. Do it for us if nothing else.
ex-Democrat on September 18, 2008 at 8:58 AM
What do you expect from a left wing socialist (Communist) moron?
pukara61 on September 18, 2008 at 8:59 AM
If the new patriotism is paying higher taxes, then proposing tax cuts must be unpatriotic, maybe even the new treason.
What do you say about that, President Reagan?
Loxodonta on September 18, 2008 at 8:59 AM
Oh yeah – don’t forget the Republicans’ killer slogan for the year, which plays right into Big Brain’s assessment:
“Country First!”
beatcanvas on September 18, 2008 at 9:00 AM
Hey Joe, why not approach your good Senate buddies like Teddy Kennedy and John Kerry and tell them it is time for them to do their patriotic duty here? Because when it comes to being among the rich, just these two alone have money squirting out their ears! So maybe it is time for them to start “giving back to Middle America” or whatever the heck that means!
I swear, I am now getting tired of these idiotic Democrats!
pilamaye on September 18, 2008 at 9:00 AM
Thank goodness Biden came out with that asinine comment… It will help deflect attention away from Palin’s somewhat unconvincing performance on Hannity & Colmes last night. And, as Ed mentioned, it makes for a hella great ad. :p
Outlander on September 18, 2008 at 9:00 AM
Well, there was that guy Perot picked for his running mate. He’d probably be incensed that someone compared him to Joe Gasbag.
AubieJon on September 18, 2008 at 9:01 AM
I just tallied up all the taxes I paid in my lifetime.
I should get the Congresional Medal of Honor.
fogw on September 18, 2008 at 9:01 AM
Hillary just took another step closer to Obama for a whisper.
Fletch54 on September 18, 2008 at 9:03 AM
Thanks, Joe! We can use that.
petefrt on September 18, 2008 at 9:03 AM
Hey Joe, tell it to Charlie Rangel first.
rbj on September 18, 2008 at 9:04 AM
These Democrat idiots are the most dangerous force facing America today. Which one is dumb and which one is dumber?
Grafted on September 18, 2008 at 9:04 AM
When Rose Kennedy died, Teddy had her estate set up in FL, not Taxachusetts, and claimed Rose was a resident of FL because she spent a few months in the winter in her old age there. Yes, you guessed it, the Taxachusetts estate tax would have taken a bigger chunk out of Teddy’s inheritance than FL’s.
Wethal on September 18, 2008 at 9:06 AM
So, if paying more taxes is more patriotic, and paying smaller taxes is less patriotic, then the truly patriotic thing to do would be to sign over all of our paychecks directly to the Treasury, and have the guys with the really high IQ’s, like Joe Biden, simply take care of us. Anybody else down with that?
morganfrost on September 18, 2008 at 9:07 AM
I am not far from the bottom 40% who don’t pay any taxes. Lets say put me in the bottom 45%.
And I pay a S#@^ Load of taxes…..
Whisky Tango Foxtrot!!!
If you don’t pay taxes, you don’t get to vote!
(I can fantasize can’t I?)
CinC on September 18, 2008 at 9:07 AM
The Euro-trash candidate!
saved on September 18, 2008 at 9:08 AM
Hey, I just found out that because I pay taxes I’m now part-owner of three very large investment firms! I can’t believe all the raining good luck. Anyone need a mortgage? A loan? I wonder what kind of perks I get for this part ownership. Maybe some of you are co-owners with me!
hoosiermama on September 18, 2008 at 9:09 AM
Stop questioning my patriotism!
Akzed on September 18, 2008 at 9:16 AM
Ya know what else would be patriotic, telling American’s the truth instead of lying your sniving politician a$$ off.
McCain/Palin ‘08 because Obama/Biden is worse.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on September 18, 2008 at 9:17 AM
Taxes macht das leben suss.
- Uberfueher Biden
Hening on September 18, 2008 at 9:17 AM
I might be a product of a slipping partisan school system and this little event might not be “factual” anymore, but wasn’t one of the early birthing moments of our country fighting against high and unfair taxes at an even called the Boston Tea Party? And isn’t that even supposed to be one of the most patriotic and symbolic events? Ok, it was over shipping tariffs going to another overbearing government, but a tax is a tax.
Tuari on September 18, 2008 at 9:17 AM
+1
Bruce in NH on September 18, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Mortgasge crisis primer
A couple both working makes 100,000 dollars a year (50K each) After Social security taxes of a min of 7,650 and property taxes (state and Local) of 4,000 to 8,000 per year thats a minimum of 11% to 16% taken without any income tax
ThATS WHY PEOPLE LOST THEIR HOUSES
Social security tax and property taxes – not from taking in too little revenue but too much
Time to end the insanity
EricPWJohnson on September 18, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Kind of hard for McCain to attack Biden on his tax comment when he said this:
Fletch54 on September 18, 2008 at 9:19 AM
Hey “Scranton” we don’t all have “Bank of the Senate” to live on….thanks for control of the Congress if you win.
sven10077 on September 18, 2008 at 9:20 AM
Just to reiterate – there could be real anger out there for calling people paying 25% to 50% of their total income in taxes – unpatriotic
EricPWJohnson on September 18, 2008 at 9:20 AM
It is not news that Biden is incredibly stupid.
Right_of_Attila on September 18, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Most of the time, OBiden makes no sense at all, about anything.
tarpon on September 18, 2008 at 9:21 AM
Hey Kvetch there is a lot of room between, “if God forbid it comes to it” and “by Golly paying the IRS is a lot like wearing a flag lapel except er ‘not optional’…”
sven10077 on September 18, 2008 at 9:22 AM
Let me know if you see anything about this on any network but FOX…..
anniekc on September 18, 2008 at 9:22 AM
HIGH TAXES ARE PATRIOTIC like our Founding Fathers principles taking us out of Britain’s hands were UNPATRIOTIC.
Biden’s a monarchist, and a sexist along the same lines as the British tradition that TO THIS DAY denies the throne and crown to any female heir if any male however distantly related lives. Gravitas wears a penis.
Congress has exceeded their share of tax revenues, hardly leaving them as do-nothings. They certainly passed legislation requiring banks and s&l to loan mortgages to unqualified applicants INCLUDING ILLEGAL ALIENS amongst the “I deserve everything” American blood suckers who bought more than they could afford. Thank you, Congress, for enabling the financial hardships that taxpayers suffer.
Congress needs to be sworn to FIRST DO NO HARM. Maybe they’d do less legislation binding America to self destruction.
Primum non nocere
maverick muse on September 18, 2008 at 9:23 AM
What does the patriotic Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden pay?
skatz51 on September 18, 2008 at 9:23 AM
Biden is the ass that keeps on giving. He and Obama would be hilariuous if they weren’t so sad.
volsense on September 18, 2008 at 9:24 AM
Obama wants to lower taxes for the majority of Americans, he only wants to raise taxes on the rich to pre Clinton levels, where as I recall the fundamentals of our economy where strong.
Ric on September 18, 2008 at 9:25 AM
So you have to pay our nose in taxes to be patriotic now?
Stand up Chuck and let ‘em see ya. Oh, God love ya, what am I talking about?
carbon_footprint on September 18, 2008 at 9:26 AM
Medal of Honor winners don’t pay taxes on their vehicle registrations. Those unpatriotic jerks.
Bishop on September 18, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Biden a despicable tax and spend liberal that would steal your babies’ lollipop.
Maxx on September 18, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Let Obama’s Hollywood and MSM friends pay the bill for their Pied Piper. Abscond with entertainers’ and celebrity income first, and from their entourages’ largest bank accounts first, lawyers first. Go ahead, Barack, pick that damned pimple on your ass’ nose.
maverick muse on September 18, 2008 at 9:29 AM
I wonder how many feet this guy can actually fit in his big mouth. Anyone know the number to Guinness? What a dip-stick.
HomeoftheBrave on September 18, 2008 at 9:30 AM
I just finished Atlas Shrugged a couple weeks ago, and this feels like deja vu.
It’s patriotic to give of yourself to help the less fortunate, and to encourage business practices that only look at need, not smart business choices.
Most of the book felt like an exaggeration done to be a little preachy, but the core principle behind everything that went bad in that book is actually here, out in the open.
Esthier on September 18, 2008 at 9:30 AM
recipients
maverick muse on September 18, 2008 at 9:30 AM
Bush lowered taxes on the majority of Americans read a timeline. If O’bambi starts making refundable credits which are defacto annual wealth transfers on top of increasing the marginal rates on an ever shrinking percentage of Americans there will be a massive capital freeze or flight. This is not quantum physics you can prove this with an abacus. Not that class warriors are interested.
Just remember after the communards ate the rich they invented a class called “kulaks” who were barely middle class to munch on….while being driven in zil limos.
sven10077 on September 18, 2008 at 9:31 AM
Great team you put together, Obama, nice messages you brainiacs are sending.
Paging Senator Mondale, paging Senator Mondale.
Bishop on September 18, 2008 at 9:31 AM
How much of that campaign money could of been used to help people pay their rent. How many houses could of been saved by Hollywood pitching in and saving people from thier bad decisions.
Why don’t you take the lead and SHOW us what you’ll do with your money instead of telling me what you want to do with mine.
E L Frederick (Sniper One) on September 18, 2008 at 9:31 AM
Then: No Taxation without Representation is Tyranny!
Now: No Taxation is Treason!
Loxodonta on September 18, 2008 at 9:32 AM
To our dear friends on the left DJ, NBC, (and their affiliates) are a golden parachute with holes in it.
Rovin on September 18, 2008 at 9:32 AM
Wow, do these guys have the Constitution 180 degrees out of phase or what?
So it is patriotic to suddenly have the government be the end-all and be-all of our lives.
Its your choice folks. Freedom or Socialism.
TheHat on September 18, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Biden bent over backwards to insert both feet in mouth, rolling the big “O”.
How far can Joe roll the “O”?
maverick muse on September 18, 2008 at 9:33 AM
Sorry, but I prefer to keep as much of my money as I can and decide where it will do the most good. I don’t need to hand it over to the liberals so they can fund the pet social projects they refuse to voluntarily cough up out of their own wallets. They are extremely good at “good causes” as long as it’s paid for by others.
iamsaved on September 18, 2008 at 9:35 AM
If he gets in, I’m not sure you’ll have to. The msm is famous for cleaning up or not reporting their teams goofs.
Blake on September 18, 2008 at 9:37 AM
Why don’t these blowhards ever just write a check themselves to the IRS instead of raising MY taxes. Oh, because they really only want me to pay more, NOT THEM!
steveyahoo on September 18, 2008 at 9:38 AM
if you think about it, the CEO’s and others that made big money off the Fannie/Freddie bad loans didn’t earn it legitimately and basically stole it from us, now Biden wants us to pay more taxes to cover the money these clowns stole
jp on September 18, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Forgive me for disagreeing with the stingy Senator, but I think it is much more patriotic to give money to private charities that are actually accountable for the money they receive. That is the honorable, and yes, patriotic, way to help your fellow Americans, not using the endless powers of government to take, take, take.
thedudesblog on September 18, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Wouldn’t it be more patriotic for the Left to just disappear?
OldEnglish on September 18, 2008 at 9:42 AM
The message lacks proper seasoning to affect the willingly ignorant and selfish voters with reason. They refuse to taste their own bitter message and refuse to admit it is bitter. Socialism means more easy pickings for the sloths in America. And given how many “I deserve it all” people participated in the robbing of our economic security, there’s a socialist army of tax gobblers already trained and legislatively entrenched in America.
So beyond the clarity of purpose, there must be sharpened sticks poked at the sloths to get them out of the entitled benefit trench and to work paying those “Patriotic High Taxes”.
maverick muse on September 18, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Morons need not assume that “sloths” are anything other than sloths.
maverick muse on September 18, 2008 at 9:46 AM
Typical nanny state psycho babble.
Jane Harmon, John Kerry, Kennedy, Charles Rangel et al have made careers calling for others to “pay their fair share” while using complex tax shelters to reduce their own tax burdens.
Taxes are good when they can be used as a cudgel to beat your opponents and to pay off your constituents while sending the bill to the average citizen.
Its all fine, so long as it is some other suckers money. If that doesn’t work, do what Charley does and just don’t pay taxes.
moxie_neanderthal on September 18, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Be sure and let me know when you get your first dividend check so I can start watching for mine.
TooTall on September 18, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Biden and Obama have released their tax returns. Obama in particular has a wealthy household. Michelle by herself earns what, $300K for a bogus hospital PR job (talk about overpaid) that lets her take 2 years off to campaign for the One. HAVE THESE PEOPLE SENT EXTRA TAX PAYMENTS? Nothing’s stopping them. Much less given generously to charity (other than Barack’s $20K to Rev. Wright)? Someone should point out that THEY are FISCAL CHICKENHAWKS!
rjm319 on September 18, 2008 at 9:47 AM
Not to worry, the Democrats have plans to make us a very patriotic country
moxie_neanderthal on September 18, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Just imagine if Obama gets to implement his “Patriotic Corporations of America Act”.
CP on September 18, 2008 at 9:50 AM
If by pre-Clinton levels you meant the Reagan years in the White House, you are 100% correct. Reagan knew how to stimulate the economy without raising taxes. He let the free market run free.
If on the other hand if you meant to say “Clinton levels” you couldn’t be more wrong. Clinton raised taxes, after he said he wouldn’t, and the economy during his term benefited from the incredible dotcom boom in the market. Clinton had nothing to do with that, and if you recall it eventually went bust and left President Bush with a sagging economy by the time he took office and left investors in the market with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in losses.
I don’t think you know anything about the fundamentals of our economy. Did you get you information out of an Obama Manifesto?
fogw on September 18, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Instead of working on the financial crisis, Congress will adjourn. “One reason, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said yesterday, is that “no one knows what to do” at the moment. ”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVPBaUbYV_qQ&refer=home
indythinker on September 18, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Translation: we’ll tax their asses off.
jeff_from_mpls on September 18, 2008 at 9:54 AM
EM said
Minor point of correction. Our current policy of allowing mortgage interest to be deducted for tax purposes does skew our tax policy toward homeownership. So it indirectly encouraged folks to buy more and larger homes than they should have.
OBQuiet on September 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM
which could work in a crude inefficient way if they simultaneously curbed governmental expenditures….the only thing I see them cutting is the national defense….
Carter2 inbound.
sven10077 on September 18, 2008 at 9:56 AM
The headline picture is great. Joey Hair Plugs looks better, even with an idiot grin, before his cosmetic procedures.
David in ATL on September 18, 2008 at 9:57 AM
Barack Alinsky does not intend to stop at POTUSA; he wants to be the Leader of the World. Look into “Global Poverty Act”.
Healthcare for the world.
carbon_footprint on September 18, 2008 at 9:59 AM
Excuse me, but correct me if I’m mistaken here:
Didn’t we once go to war against the most powerful nation in the world over a number things like regulators that “erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass (sic) our People, and eat out their Substance” and things like a 3% (3%!!!) tax on sugar?
And weren’t the people who led this war and risked much if not all to fight against a huge, powerful and invasive government, well, weren’t they for the most part “rich”?
Or did I misinterpret that part of my history study?
Amendment X on September 18, 2008 at 10:01 AM
It’s the tipping point of socialism and why Europe is unlikely to ever move away from it. Once the percentage of the voting population living off the govt. becomes large enough there becomes no incentive to ever vote benefits away from oneselves. The population will continue to vote in politicians and policies that take vast sums from a voting minority and distribute it to the voting majority.
BadgerHawk on September 18, 2008 at 10:02 AM
I would like to see a system where the number of votes each person gets depends on the amount of taxes to paid minus benefits received from govt.
The more taxes you pay, the more votes you get.
If you are receiving govt payments, of any type, even a paycheck, then your number of votes go down.
Military service would count as a plus, the more years you served, the more extra votes you get.
SS payments would not count as a negative, so long as you are drawing down the money you put in. After that point, it counts the same as welfare. (Which it is.)
MarkTheGreat on September 18, 2008 at 10:02 AM
No, shrinking the federal government is patriotic!
desertdweller on September 18, 2008 at 10:04 AM
Bingo.
Buy Danish on September 18, 2008 at 10:05 AM
“Paying more taxes is the patriotic thing for Americans.” One too many brain aneurysm Joe.
try again later on September 18, 2008 at 10:06 AM
But we could subsidize some financial counselors, sort of like nannies except for adults, and their job would be to basically move in with working people and supervise their decisions.
People shouldn’t be forced to make decisions they don’t know how to make. This isn’t Russia. Is this Russia?
jeff_from_mpls on September 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Yeah, but as a homeowner I like that policy. A lot.
BadgerHawk on September 18, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Who does he consider rich?
I know he thinks 200k is wealthy and claims he won’t touch the Middle Class, but where does he think we end?
Esthier on September 18, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Not sure that your argument makes sense. The massive US debt certainly limits the range of options available to the Fed and Treasury in responding to the crisis. If you look at some of the better solutions to stemming the meltdown on Wall Street, such as a return of the FTC, one major problem is identifying a source for the massive cash infusion necessary to deal with all the troubled assets in the system. The US is staring to look tapped out. If the US had a much smaller debt, injecting a couple trillion to calm cordon off stressed assets from the rest of the market wouldn’t be a major issue. But when the debt exceeds $10 trillion? It’s hard to see how in these circumstances a massive intervention could happen without some negative consequences. It would cause the global financial system to take a long and hard look at the weight of US debt obligations and cast an unwanted light on the country’s long term financial challenges.
So to say that in times of financial insolvency that a massive budget deficit and federal debt have little impact sounds like wishful thinking. Americans need to accept reality- deficit spending can’t go on forever, and yes, there are consequences to a massive debt, especially when times are tough.
Michel Bloomberg, a very smart and savvy Wall Street expert, is one of those who would disagree with you:
http://news.yahoo.com/s//ap/20080917/ap_on_bi_ge/economy_bloomberg
It’s like the refrain from an old song that most people realize sucks. No matter how clearly it’s been invalidated by empirical evidence- lowering taxes doesn’t lead individuals to work harder to encourage businesses growth- yet the supply side fantasy lives on.
foreverright on September 18, 2008 at 10:10 AM
He wants the majority of Americans to be unpatriotic? The cad.
BTW, only a bare majority of Americans pay income taxes.
Clinton inherited a strong economy from Bush the elder. It was starting to fall apart by the time he left. The economy improved dramatically after Bush the younger’s tax cuts.
MarkTheGreat on September 18, 2008 at 10:13 AM
If by “time to be part of the deal,” Biden means a socialist government a la Venezuela/Cuba, then he can take his hair plugs and shove it.
m064404 on September 18, 2008 at 10:14 AM
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