right when I’m enthused and excited about this race, (nominating Sarah!) He does something like this that takes the wind out of my sails.. and by that I mean close the wallet before money comes out.

Whether you do or not, illegal immigrants are in the US to stay. What would you do about it? Deport them all? To where? Large numbers of them won’t survive if you just dump them across the border in Mexico. These are people, and legal or not you have to try to help them.

Gaunilon on September 12, 2008 at 5:47 PM

We must help other people, this much most of us will agree with. However we do not have to help them on their terms. Their terms may not be sensible. Their terms may lead to the destruction of whatever it is both you and they desire.

In a broken world every successful country is like a life boat; it cannot hold unlimited numbers of needy people. Once your life boat has reached its capacity the only sensible thing to do with anybody else who tries to climb aboard, is to push them back into the water.

Yes, they will possibly drown. Life isn’t fair, it isn’t always pleasant and Utopia isn’t going to exist on earth this side of the second-coming of Jesus Christ, aand perhaps not even then, no matter how much we all might desire it.

I don’t know which of the successful free world countries is full to capacity and which are not (many of them have similar immigration problems), but any policy that fails to recognise that there could be a time when you have to abandon drowning people is neither compassionate nor sensible.

Perhaps the best way to help is to try to reduce the number of drowning people … but that is a whole different discussion.

A serious debilitating McCain stroke next May would be enough to save us.

bill30097 on September 12, 2008 at 9:26 PM

Liberals were worried that if Obama won he would be targeted for assassination by rightwing extremists, but I’m beginnning to think McCain has more to fear if he wins.

The M82 Barret can reach across the border. Way across.

BobMbx on September 12, 2008 at 5:46 PM

The M82 can also fire north of the border, look to the right of the link to see which countries have it. Just something to think about.

That depends on the circumstances. What if they broke in because they’re starving and need food? Or because it’s 40 below outside and they have no coat? Gonna kick them back out then? Even if they broke in for the wrong reasons, you have to consider the consequences of booting them out, particularly where lives are on the line.

This scenario proves you are so full of crap. Yes I will kick them back outside, because having broken into my house instead of asking for assistance proves their motive and character.

It’s true, as BobmBX pointed out, that your first concern is your own family. However once your family’s safety is assured, some discomfort/expense for you and your family does not outweigh someone else’s life.

They have already proved their character and your family could never be truly safe in their presence.

In the case of deporting illegal immigrants you have to consider children as well. Going to deport them too, even though a lot of them won’t survive after landing in Mexico with no home?

First, there will be no mass deportations, other than self deportation, and that’s moving along just fine. Second Mexico is just as capable of setting up temporary shelter as we are. I don’t advocate placing a child in danger, but being sent to Mexico, where thousands of Americans pay to go every year, is not a death sentence.

I don’t condone people illegally coming to the US; they should have gone through the legal channels even though those are completely screwed up. But the situation now is what it is: you either let them stay illegally, or you deport them en masse and watch the ensuing human catastrophe, or you arrange to have them become legal. It’s that simple. Option 1 is bad, option 2 is wrong, ergo you are left with option 3. Deal with it.

Gaunilon on September 13, 2008 at 12:24 AM

We don’t choose any of those options, and like I said self deportation is working just fine. It must cause you great pain to hear that, but it is working, and if it keeps up an amnesty will be unnecessary.

I don’t condone people illegally coming to the US; they should have gone through the legal channels even though those are completely screwed up. But the situation now is what it is: you either let them stay illegally, or you deport them en masse and watch the ensuing human catastrophe, or you arrange to have them become legal. It’s that simple. Option 1 is bad, option 2 is wrong, ergo you are left with option 3. Deal with it.

Gaunilon on September 13, 2008 at 12:24 AM

I think most of us who are steadfast against illegals realize that most of them will wind up staying…..we also realize that it’s greedy Americans who are luring them here not Mexicans (not only can you cheat them on wages, they can’t unionize). It’s haveing had such open borders in the first place that caused the problem.

What ever jerkwad McAmnesty does he’d better shut off the tap. If he doesn’t do that decisively first. I’ll never give another cent to the Republican party. And I know a lot of people who feel exactly like I do. Amnesty with out sealed borders is national suicide. If you haven’t noticed, this boat’s starting to sink. Check out how many hospitals have closed in the last two years in California. And try to find a job in SoCal.

Thanks for the buzzkill, idiot!

That depends on the circumstances. What if they broke in because they’re starving and need food? Or because it’s 40 below outside and they have no coat? Gonna kick them back out then? Even if they broke in for the wrong reasons, you have to consider the consequences of booting them out, particularly where lives are on the line. It’s true, as BobmBX pointed out, that your first concern is your own family. However once your family’s safety is assured, some discomfort/expense for you and your family does not outweigh someone else’s life.

In the case of deporting illegal immigrants you have to consider children as well. Going to deport them too, even though a lot of them won’t survive after landing in Mexico with no home?

I don’t condone people illegally coming to the US; they should have gone through the legal channels even though those are completely screwed up. But the situation now is what it is: you either let them stay illegally, or you deport them en masse and watch the ensuing human catastrophe, or you arrange to have them become legal. It’s that simple. Option 1 is bad, option 2 is wrong, ergo you are left with option 3. Deal with it.

Were it not for Gov. Palin, I would not back this ticket.

madmonkphotog on September 12, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Her selection was a good move. His mouth and immigration policy pushes me away. I still might not vote for them.

Hey, Maverick? Not one more dime.

My thoughts exactly. And to think I was JUST starting to believe McAmnesty had forgotten about this issue. If he doesn’t shut his yap, I’ll be voting 3rd party yet. We beat amnesty before and we’ll beat it again. What a shame that he still doesn’t ‘get it’. Sigh…

Illegal aliens are criminals.

Allahpundit is right to cover this, when so many are still hepped up on their Palin fix.

AP: thank you, thats good blogging right there.

aengus on September 12, 2008 at 7:01 PM

Amen from Texas, where we have been invaded. We cannot leave our house without fear of a buglary or being hit by an illegal with no insurance and who obeys no traffic laws.

Whether you do or not, illegal immigrants are in the US to stay. What would you do about it? Deport them all? To where? Large numbers of them won’t survive if you just dump them across the border in Mexico. These are people, and legal or not you have to try to help them.

I think McCain has this right, and I don’t see why it works against him. I also think he supports it on principle rather than politics.

Gaunilon on September 12, 2008 at 5:47 PM

I don’t have to help anyone who breaks into my house.

Hey, Maverick? Not one more dime.

Yep. I’ve said that to every GOP fundraising letter I’ve gotten since the amnesty debacle itself.
I’m glad McCain threw this out there. Maybe a few people will sober up off the Palin giddiness. A lot of supporters are trying to white wash McCain’s history by conflating Palin’s beliefs with what direction McCain’s administration will take. Ha ha. Her being a conservative doesn’t make a whole lot of difference. McCain is the one who will set the agenda. Anybody know what Dick Cheney’s position on amnesty is? I don’t. Because it doesn’t matter. George Bush wanted it. And so does good old Backdoor John. My worry is he is going to send Palin out to sell it to the rubes; and later, when it all starts getting really ugly, come 2012, the angry electorate isn’t going to remember the 76 year old RINO jacka** cruising off to retirement in Arizona; we’re going to remember Palin selling us McCain’s load of sh*t on this issue.
Nothing has changed with McCain. Palin’s nomination wasn’t the bestowing of a legacy to the conservatives; it was cynical political maneuver to shore up his base. And it worked beautifully. Now that he has the angry children snoopy dancing in the corner, thinking that they matter, he can go back to his ‘legacy’ issue: big a** amnesty. Cap and trade soon to follow? And how is Gramnesty doing in the Senate with his ‘killing the drilling’ compromise? McCain, the gift that keeps on giving to even the most jaded cynic. Think I’ll go work on a new campaign song…maybe a little Ebony and Ivory?

Amnesty and Sarah P…
fit together in perfect HARMONY
side by side in my Oval Office, oh Lord, why don’t we?

We all know that bigots are the same wherever we go…
there is good and bad..in the GOP.
We’ll throw them out..let them shout in silence..
and we’ll open the gates..and fill up the states…

It still needs some work but I’ll have it ready by election day.

And yes, ‘urbancenturion’, if a child walks up to me in a restaurant and needs help, I damn well have a responsibility to provide it as best I can.

So, what time do you plan to arrive in my town to pick up a load of illegals? I’ll give you a map if you need one.

What about “dropping millions of illegals” into the US? Do we ever get consideration? What about our infrastructure? Our economy? Our culture?

I’m really just about full of people who just don’t get it. When you fly on an airplane, and the flight attendants give the safety brief, does it bother you that they instruct healthy adults to put the oxygen mask on themselves first, then help others who might need assistance? Have you ever thought about why they do that? In case you haven’t, I’ll tell you: If you need oxygen, so does the guy next to you. If you fumble around trying to put a mask on someone else first, you may lose conciousness before you can get your (or the other persons) mask on. Then you both may die.

I’m gonna take care of me and mine first. If there should be something left over, then I’ll consider spreading the wealth. Does that make me selfish? Or is it the American way? I am a capitalist, and very pragmatic about problem solving. Problems don’t get solved by consensus or ensuring no one gets the feelings hurt, or fairness. They are solved by identifying the cause and instituting measures to eliminate that cause. That sounds Draconian, but sometimes it’s required. When problems are stroked and massaged and diddled around with for long periods, they become engrained and quite difficult to excise. This is what leads to the belief that it’s just too hard to remove all the illegals. It is not too hard. We’ve just become accustomed to living with the problem instead of solving it. We make up scenarios that portend an even worse outcome if we try to solve the problem (Mexico can’t handle it’s own people) to justify inaction. If Mexico can’t take care of it’s own population, and there is apparently some sort of government-cide occuring down there, aren’t we, as Christians, obligated to end the oppression and allow the Mexican ex-patriots to return to their homeland and live the life they deserve? Does regime change sound appropriate? How about sanctions?

Charity has limits.

Be a man. Protect those weaker than yourself.

I love this part. What this really means, when you get right down to it’s physical implementation, is “C’mon Bob, work for yourself and then work some more for somebody else!” Your suggestion to protect those weaker than I is answered by this: I pay close to $6k a year into SSA alone, supposedly for my social security after I retire. I know full well that won’t see a dime of SSA entitlements, after having paid into it all of my life. I, by proxy, have protected “Those weaker than me” by donating my entire SSA contributions to them. I hope they enjoyed themselves as a result of my labor.

Time for a holding of noses. At least with Palin on the ticket, it’s an investment in the future.

petefrt on September 12, 2008 at 5:46 PM

So far I’ve been happy with Palin but I have no idea whether or not she supports US sovereignty. If not, my interest in her will be over.

You are very lucky that yours are mostly poor people willing from Mexico willing to work hard for a better life.

Gaunilon on September 12, 2008 at 9:03 PM

The Mexicans are here to help. I feel relieved. I found a few quotes from Hispanic leaders about the help their offering.

Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; “Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die . . . Through love of having children, we are going to take over.

Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General , “We are practicing ‘La Reconquista’ in California.”

Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas; “We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population . . . I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love it.”

With friends like these who needs enemies.

I’m a Christian, like John McCain and Sarah Palin. We do not believe that “no one else matters” -BobmBX or that it is ok to sacrifice others for oneself.

Gaunilon on September 12, 2008 at 9:03 PM

You have it wrong they want to sacrifice you to save themselves.