Video: 102 minutes that changed America

posted at 10:27 am on September 11, 2008 by Allahpundit

A thread for your ruminations, pegged to must-see viewing on the History Channel tonight. I hate writing about 9/11 because it leaves me even more unequal to the task than usual, so rather than waste your time let me send you to the NYT for its scoop on Bush having finally greenlit Special Ops raids on Al Qaeda bases in Pakistan. It’s paying off:

According to two American officials briefed on the raid, it involved more than two dozen members of the Navy Seals who spent several hours on the ground and killed about two dozen suspected Qaeda fighters in what now appeared to have been a planned attack against militants who had been conducting attacks against an American forward operating base across the border in Afghanistan.

Supported by an AC-130 gunship, the Special Operations forces were whisked away by helicopters after completing the mission.

Why risk a backlash in Pakistan this way instead of letting the hometown team handle it? Because: (a) the Pakistani government has no intention of fighting the Taliban or AQ no matter how much money we throw at them, a fact worth bearing in mind the next time Obama talks up his plan to win them over with a massive increase in non-military foreign aid; and (b) according to Joint Chiefs Chairman Mike Mullen (as well as Michael Yon), we’re almost out of time in Afghanistan. The cost of not acting now exceeds the cost of brief incursions across the border, even though it risks destabilizing a nuclear state. Ponder that as a metric of how dire the situation is.

If you’re not inclined to read the whole Times piece, read the last few paragraphs at least for a reminder of how filthy and duplicitous Pakistani intelligence is. As for the video below, all nine clips are worth watching but the one from Gateway Plaza is especially surreal. This old PBS footage is my own personal requisite 9/11 viewing (especially part three), but I doubt it’ll evoke the same feeling for people who don’t live in the city. For those who do, bring a handkerchief. Click the image to watch.


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I have never understood this line of reasoning. I see no running “balance sheet” of lives in the Iraqi conflict or any of the conflicts, murders, and injustices that men have perpetuated on each other over the centuries with you as the self-appointed accountant.

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 2:08 PM

Yeah, y’see, that’s the problem. Libs always seem to think war is like one big Japanese baseball game – if the game is tied in the bottom of the 9th, everyone packs up and quits the field.

Casualty totals are never equal across the board.

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 2:13 PM

SilverStar830 on September 11, 2008 at 1:45 PM

Awesome!

4shoes on September 11, 2008 at 2:15 PM

I can’t watch the videos or I’ll soak my keyboard. Posting this is already making me tear up. I’ll never forget that day. I remember one of my immediate reactions that day was, “We should wipe out who did this. Nuke them, whoever they are.” My high school history teacher was a little more skeptical (he’s a Democrat of course), but I felt that disbelieving rage for a long time. It was unthinkable to me that anyone could attack the US like that. Even if I disagree with Bush on a myriad of things, I think he handled 9/11 the best way anyone could. Even if it didn’t wake up everyone in the nation, it woke me up.

God bless those who lost their lives that day. And to those who signed up or rejoined the US military after that day, my heartfelt thanks to your courage and patriotism. It comforts me to know there are people willing to fight against evil while others bury their heads in the sand.

Never Forget

wherestherum on September 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM

I cannot imagine how it would feel to be a member of the US military fighting on the ground in Iraq and watching your buddies die, knowing the tremendous capability we hold to rain down wanton destruction in complete safety from afar, to be demeaned for conducting an evil war by some jerk who thinks there’s a magic number of acceptable casualties. It makes me sick.

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 2:19 PM

I do say however that it is hypocrisy to grieve them and at the same time extol the virtues of the American invasion of Iraq which cause a far greater number of innocent deaths. Are you saying that Iraqi lives are worth less than American lives?

No, but I would say that the Iraqis are far better off as a free people than as the playthings for a dictator and his evil spawn.

You seem perfectly fine with condemning millions of people to live in absolute abject terror and fear instead of having an opportunity to live in freedom and to be able to work to fulfill their own dreams instead of those of a truly evil man. For that, you are for more deserving of condemnation than those here who didn’t happen to explicitly mention that they mourn for the loss of all innocent life.

How many innocent Iraqi lives (and Iranian lives, etc, etc) were lost in the wars launched by Saddam Hussien? How many innocent lives were lost in the torture chambers of his sons? How many innocent lives were lost to his secret police or to the Ba’athists? Why are you not grieving for them? Are their lives worth less than the lives of those who died during the American liberation?

Your own words condemn you as the true uncaring, unfeeling, hypocrite.

Fatal on September 11, 2008 at 2:29 PM

because you are the one that is equating our government or this administration to the citizens. That is very disrespectful or at least ignorant.

In America, the government is “of, by, and for the people”.

Now, who’s “ignorant”?

Sheesh

Fatal on September 11, 2008 at 2:35 PM

I’ll never forget that day. I remember one of my immediate reactions that day was, “We should wipe out who did this. Nuke them, whoever they are.”

wherestherum on September 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM

That was mine too, and then it switched to “nuke the heck out of Pakistan.”

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 2:36 PM

The Paks have no ability to enforce the border up in the mountains between Afganistan. So, the thread posits:

Why risk a backlash in Pakistan this way instead of letting the hometown team handle it?

I conceive of this entire mountain area much like the out of bounds line on a soccer field. That is, the whole line is in play.

Because the Paks lack the ability (and the will) to deal with it (if this sounds like our SW, so be it) then when our interests are threatened in the region, we have to take action in this “no mans’ land” even if it means crossing the border. Don’t think for a minute that the Pak leadership won’t explain to whoever complains about our action the same thing they tell us about why they can’t act against the Tally-ban (as BarryO says it): “We can’t control the Americans.”

EconomicNeocon on September 11, 2008 at 2:38 PM

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 1:52 PM

Should we have bombed Germany and Japan in WW2?

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 2:48 PM

Are you saying that Iraqi lives are worth less than American lives?
JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 12:17 PM

The government should act as if they are because that is their constituency.

Spirit of 1776 on September 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM

And how was the WTC attacks worse than the criminal invasision of Iraq? It is like shooting someone in the head because he spilled a beer on your new shirt.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 10:57 AM

So all of the people killed in the WTC is like spilling beer on your new shirt?

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 2:51 PM

Who would have bet on Sept. 12, 2001 that the terrorist would be prevented from hitting us again? Lets not forget to give George W. Bush the credit for this because if we would have been hit again, Bush surely would have been blamed.

Maxx on September 11, 2008 at 2:53 PM

Maxx on September 11, 2008 at 2:53 PM

Agreed. Unfortunately, there are those that believe Bush should be tried for crimes against humanity – - all for trying to prevent another catastrophe to the citizens and country he swore to protect.

Rick on September 11, 2008 at 2:57 PM

KillerKane on September 11, 2008 at 10:58 AM

One thing that really struck me when it came to expressions of solidarity – as with the Canadian armored vehicle, but 50x greater – was an Australian beach with people standing side by side in rows made to look like a giant American flag from above.

I saw that on the TV and I was like . . . “whoa. Just, whoa.”

Very touching.

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 2:58 PM

Unedited footage….5 major networks coerage for the first 8 hours on digg.

We have lost something as a nation that we have media overlords who refuse to let us watch unsanitized footage of this disaster to remind us what and whom we are fighting. The self-appointed ‘guardians of public consicence’ are very choosy in when and what they allow us to feel rage over. A young woman covers herslef with some fecal matter and says she wss raped by whites we are “allowed that rage” to the toon of a posse of her similar citizens pummel and kill people in riots. Yet poor, poor, Islam needs protected from the wrath and indignation many feel on this day every year sonce radical Islam’s “gift” to all of us.

I’d feel a lot more sympathy for “poor innoncent Muslims” if their self-appointed mouthpiece CAIR weren’t in bed with terrorists and trying to sue any criticism of it into oblivion. Inncocent Muslims may well not deserve to be held directly responsible for these attacks, but I do feel they have an extra duty to try to housebreak the radicals and they fail to do so. They may find if, God forbid their “slightly aggressive cousins” get too froggy they need internmment camps.

A democratic President would be given the leeway by the media to do so, and the Democrat known as FDR did in fact do so on far less justifiable grounds to the Japanese.

sven10077 on September 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 2:51 PM

I get the feeling that Silverberg is not an American. Go back and look at some of his/her’s other comments, and you’ll notice the different spelling of some words – - possibly a Euro. If so, that explains the views he/she is taking on this.

Rick on September 11, 2008 at 3:00 PM

dems, when they, if they’d been in charge, would have most likely done nothing.
4shoes on September 11, 2008 at 10:39

AM

What a pointless stupid lie. And how ignorant to be spitefully partisan on a day like today.

Dave Rywall on September 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM

And what did clinton do each time that we were attacked?

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 3:01 PM

Rick on September 11, 2008 at 2:57 PM

The people that compare him to Hitler really get my blood boiling.

Eight years of that crap. And Obama whines after having been called an elitist or celebrity for two months. Just shows me who the bigger man is.

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 3:01 PM

) And for your information I am not a liberal but a conservative.
JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 12:17 PM

Typical ruse.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM

And for your information I am not a liberal but a conservative.
JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 12:17 PM
Typical ruse.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 3:08 PM

It always amazes me that they think we can’t tell the difference between a conservative and liberal if they just use the stereotypes and buzz words they think apply to us. I mean my god, don’t they know it’s like an instinct were born with to be able to detect a liberal at 100 paces.

church on September 11, 2008 at 3:12 PM

church on September 11, 2008 at 3:12 PM

Yeah and then they get ticked off with what they perceive as our attempts to label people.

Its funny as heck.

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 3:28 PM

Yeah and then they get ticked off with what they perceive as our attempts to label people.

Its funny as heck.

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 3:28 PM

Yeah, I’ve noticed the whining they do over calling them liberals. They can’t run away from that label fast enough . However, I’m a conservative and proud of our conservative ideas. Label me baby, label me.

church on September 11, 2008 at 3:34 PM

“Wipe them out”. “Nuke Pakistan” With primitive sentiments like that … you show yourselves to be of the same low moral fibre as islamic terrorists. You would murder tens of millions of innocent pakistanis to satisfy your own bloodlust. Can you now understand why so many foreigners chant in chorus with the lunatic Mr. Wright: “God damn America!”? You get the respect you deserve – which in the case of you two is none. Luckily I can see past your vulgarity and love the real America of decent people who wish everyone well. God bless America!

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:42 PM

I made it to through two… at work… not smart. I didn’t think I would be that emotional. I hope the site remains up, they did a fantastic job. I’ll watch it eventually when I can let it out.

UndertheBridge on September 11, 2008 at 3:44 PM

I just watched all of the History Channel videos. The one of the firefighter, all covered with crap, calling his wife really got to me. “I’m okay… No, everybody’s dead. I have to go.” Jesus!

JohnW on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

I wrote in my first comment that I am from Europe. Thus a European conservative, not an American one (Am. conservatives would be called liberals or neoliberals here).

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

I wrote in my first comment that I am from Europe. Thus a European conservative, not an American one (Am. conservatives would be called liberals or neoliberals here).

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

Laughable.

Go back home, Eurotrash, you’re not welcome in this country.

leetpriest on September 11, 2008 at 3:53 PM

I wrote in my first comment that I am from Europe. Thus a European conservative, not an American one (Am. conservatives would be called liberals or neoliberals here).

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

OH MY GOD. A Euro-Trash conservative. That’s a liberal in the good ole USA. No one here is interested in what a
European has to say. Go fix your own country, we don’t
need your help and I don’t remember asking for it. Just
stay in your little world of moral relativism and when your
Muslim population gets out of hand and you need America to
save your sorry butt again, don’t worry we’ll be there. We
always are.

church on September 11, 2008 at 3:53 PM

Allah

90 miles upstate from 9/11 there is a gray place – its been there for a long time

Young kids enter this institution.

I was there for their reception and again there for their acceptance – their acceptance into something bigger than themselves – and eventually for their graduation.

This place is physically grueling and mentally challenging – their leadership is of one mind – and their courage and results have never been in doubt

I was fortunate to be among them for just a litle while – we tend sometimes to forget they are there

They are there when 9/11 happened they adjusted – trained – studied.

9/11′s come, affect us all, and those grey graduates go out and do what they always do – the very best for their country

EricPWJohnson on September 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM

So all of the people killed in the WTC is like spilling beer on your new shirt?

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 2:51 PM

No that was not what I meant and you know it! It was a rhetorical figure meant to illustrate the relative overreaction of invading Iraq in retaliation for 9-11, something the Iraqis had nothing to do with, their only connection being that they share their muslim faith with the alleged Saudi hijackers. Why not invade Saudia Arabia then? That would at least have been logical given the nationality of the alleged hijackers.
.
Iraq had no connection to 9-11.
Iraq had no WMD.
Iraq was cooperating with international inspectors.
Iraqi was still Invaded.
.
Hmmmm. Ulterior motive anyone?
.
***
.
As for that naive poster who claimed the invasion was motivated by humanitarian concerns: Since when did the USA get the right to decide when other peoples “are better off” with an American invasion? Maybe the USA is better off with a Chinese invasion according to China, would that then justify that the Chinese attacks the USA, kills thousands of Americans and demand that you be grateful? No, certainly not! Please think before you post such naive rubbish! Each nation is soverign and must deal with its own problems unless it invites the US to come to its aid like for example South Vietnam did.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

Pst! Your America envy is showing.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:03 PM

A generation from now, we’ll look back at 9/11 as the day that the Sleeping Giant woke up and began the liberation of the Enslaved World.

Tony737 on September 11, 2008 at 11:44 AM

I hope you are right, but I’m afraid they are slaves to the Islamic dogma by choice. Unless there is a reformation of the Islamic religion, as occurred in Christianity, the Muslim world will continue to wallow in self-pity and acts of violence against imagined affronts to the dignity of their religion. Theirs is a religion of insanity which breeds more insanity. I fear there is no hope for them. Therefore, we will be forced to act against them in ways a civilized society would not want to imagine.

church on September 11, 2008 at 11:50 AM

I’m afraid the Muslim world has already had their “reformation,” and it took them back to their bloody roots. The Christian Reformation was a return to the roots of Christianity. The roots of Islam are very bloody.

In other words, the “Islamofascists” of today represent the reformation of Islam.

Islam declared war on everyone who does not submit to Islam. Like you, I see no way for it to end unless Muslims by and large reject that part of their faith. We had enough experience of war over religious issues in the past, and want no more of it. But it looks increasingly like we’ll be dragged back into it purely as a matter of self defense.

There are a couple of places where I see room for optimism. Islam allows for peace with the non-Muslims if they are too strong to fight. We have to be too strong from now on if we want that peace.

Or… we could use our position of strength to force Muslim nations to allow true religious freedom within their borders. That means punishing any attempt on their part to punish “apostasy” from Islam, and forcing them to allow proselytizing by Christian and other missionaries.

Can you imagine us doing any such thing? I can’t. But if things do degrade until we’re forced into some sort of all-out war for survival, then such actions might seem justified in the aftermath.

President Bush’s approach seems to be: use democracy to undercut totalitarian Islam regimes, and be friends to them as much as possible, until they realize that we are not the enemy. Will that work? It seems unlikely, but it may well be the best approach possible at this point.

Frankly, Islam’s hostility to all other religions and non-Islamic nations is a problem not easily solved without changing us or them. The changes to us require either our submitting to Islam, or our subduing of the Muslim world, or our abandoning our commitment to complete religious freedom in favor of forcing Islam to change.

Or, the Muslim world could just decide that internal, personal jihad is sufficient, rather than declaring war on the non-Islamic world.

tom on September 11, 2008 at 4:03 PM

“Wipe them out”. “Nuke Pakistan” With primitive sentiments like that … you show yourselves to be of the same low moral fibre as islamic terrorists. You would murder tens of millions of innocent pakistanis to satisfy your own bloodlust. Can you now understand why so many foreigners chant in chorus with the lunatic Mr. Wright: “God damn America!”? You get the respect you deserve – which in the case of you two is none. Luckily I can see past your vulgarity and love the real America of decent people who wish everyone well. God bless America!

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:42 PM

I consider it funny that anyone from such a disgusting, feces-infested area like Europe can call anything American “primative”.

Are you not aware that Americans are the evolved version Europeans (sans Hitler, Mussolini, King George, Ferdinand II, and Napoleon Bonaparte)? Your trashed streets, the smell of urine and feces everywhere, your prostitution, your affinity to allow human beings to marry inanimate objects….. Yeah, you Europeans sure are the epitome of “civilization” (by the way, eurotrash, on this forum, that’s spelled with a “z”, see to it that you do not make this mistake again).

Disgusting Europeans.

leetpriest on September 11, 2008 at 4:05 PM

I wrote in my first comment that I am from Europe. Thus a European conservative, not an American one (Am. conservatives would be called liberals or neoliberals here).

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

What country from Europe are you from? Why would you compare the 3000 Americans who died that day to “spilled coffee on a new shirt”? Today of all days. If you want to have a civil debate over the merits of the invasion of Iraq there are many people on this site who would be happy to take you up on that. But when you spit on the graves of our fallen on the aniversary of their death don’t be surprised when we all of a sudden seem a little “less civil” in our responses to you.

Zetterson on September 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM

No that was not what I meant and you know it!
Silverberg

You are expounding on something, 911, that unless you are an American you cannot truly understand. We appreciated the “We are all Americans” statement at the time. But the deep wound this inflicted can only be understood by a born and bred American. I don’t know what country you are from, but I would never delude myself into thinking I know the history or pains of another nation better than its own citizens. You have crossed a line. As did those who perpetrated 911. Don’t wake a sleeping giant if you don’t want to be tread on. Now the giant is awake and woe to anyone that gets in our way.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:10 PM

Since when did the USA get the right to decide when other peoples “are better off” with an American invasion?

Hey, JC,where were you when Clinton decided to bomb the hell out of the Balkans based on humanitarian issues to deter genocide? Where were you on the ground when the US military and Iraqis were digging the mass execution graves of Saddam up? What level of effort have you ever lifted to help the Iraqis live some semblence of a normal existence? Grab a shovel, stand a post or STFU.

Fletch54 on September 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:42 PM

You, sir, have no room to talk to me about the moral fiber of anything.

Ryan Gandy on September 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

Iraq was cooperating with international inspectors.

Oh really? This is News to me!

As for that naive poster who claimed the invasion was motivated by humanitarian concerns: Since when did the USA get the right to decide when other peoples “are better off” with an American invasion?

I was in a unit that freed over 300 political prisoners in Iraq. At least a quarter of this 300 where children. Since you’re European, It would be safe to assume that you’ve never been anywhere near a war, and thus have never freed a CHILD from captivity.

You can speak on such topics when you have the experience to do so. Until then, STFU.

leetpriest on September 11, 2008 at 4:13 PM

I wrote in my first comment that I am from Europe. Thus a European conservative, not an American one (Am. conservatives would be called liberals or neoliberals here).

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 3:45 PM

So you’re on an American website, assuming that all of the Americans here are using your European definition of the word that we use here with a different definition.

Honestly, take your pretentious ass off a cliff and cleanse the gene pool a bit.

MadisonConservative on September 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

No that was not what I meant and you know it!
Silverberg

Let me tell you all you need to know. We are the USA. We do things our way. We play nice, when left alone. Piss us off and all bets are off. We are pissed. Get used to it and learn to live with it. European, feminine girly men’s opinions are neither wanted nor needed. Now go take a bath and put on some deodorant, because I can smell your nasty Euro-trash ass.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:20 PM

Maybe the USA is better off with a Chinese invasion according to China, would that then justify that the Chinese attacks the USA, kills thousands of Americans and demand that you be grateful? No, certainly not! Please think before you post such naive rubbish!

Alas, the bankrupt moral equivalency argument.

Tell you what JC, why don’t you go personally ask the Iraqi people which they would have preferred. Would they rather have been left at the tender mercies of Saddam Hussien or would they rather have had the multi-national forces remove Saddam from power and return the country to their democratically elected leaders? Go ask the people with the purple fingers which they would have preferred. I have, I know their answers, how about you?

To think that a people kept under the oppressive thumb of a ruthless dictator would have the wherewithall to “Ask” for help is truly “naive”.

Oh, and if you knew any history at all, you would know that many of the people of Iraq DID ask for the U.S. to intervene, begged us to relieve them of the evil they were being subjected to, actually rose up and tried to overthrow Saddam supposing they would have our help and to the everlasting shame of Bush the Elder, he failed them, he let them down. He did what you would have had us do and left them to the tender mercies of an evil man, who slaughtered them by the thousands.

You are a self-important fool whose morality is so thin that it cannot stand up to the slightest prick of reality. You have no concept of the world the way it really is instead of the way you believe it should be in that little infantile mind of yours.

Fatal on September 11, 2008 at 4:25 PM

With primitive sentiments like that

Silverberg

Our primitive sentiments have battled and won against, facism, communism and a number of other “isms” for the betterment of mankind. Provided the world with life saving medication, medical innovation, as well as feeding a large swath of the planet and elevated us to the sole super power in the world with the best standard of living in world history, just to name a few. If that is primitive, then I don’t want to be modern.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:30 PM

I contribute these remarks, purposely before reading any other comments.
I choose to re-experience 9/11 every year. I watch the documentaries, listen to the talk shows, and watch as much footage as I can. It is for no one other than myself I do this.
I owe it to the people who died and those who still suffer to this day, to remember every minute of that day. I will NEVER forget, and I honestly never want to. Yes it is sad, I will cry and the day will not be too productive.
As I do the same on Memorial day, and Veterans day, I feel it is my duty to do this. It helps me keep in focus exactly what is at stake in this world.
I think everybody should do whatever it is they feel appropriate: live normally, have a moment of silence, say a prayer, etc.
As long as we NEVER forget, spend this day however you wish. Be grateful for what we have, and remember what some have lost.
God Bless everyone, especially my fellow Hot Air-iacs, be safe, love those who love you, and always be proud to be an American.
Respectfully,

Steven on September 11, 2008 at 4:31 PM

For more than a decade the Muslim world had been itching for a fight, attacking us and our allies all over the world, they used unlawful tactics and were supported by some of the most evil tyrants in the Middle East. On 9/11/01 they brought their fight to our shores and we finally decided to give them one, in their back yard and on our terms.

The fact of the matter JC Silverberg is we are fighting an enemy who doesn’t recognize boundaries or borders or even civilized rules of engagement so I could care less what country we engage them in as long as it isn’t ours. If the entire middle east burns I won’t shed a tear for a single one of those animals, the entire Muslim world is filled with the most despicable evil known to mankind and the more of them we kill the fewer are left to plot our destruction and those that survive the field of battle can go home and tell their fellow jihadi’s the futility of being used as canon fodder against the American War machine.

Ciannaky on September 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM

Hey, JC,where were you when Clinton decided to bomb the hell out of the Balkans based on humanitarian issues to deter genocide?

Fletch54 on September 11, 2008 at 4:12 PM

.
I condemn that too! The American (man)handling of the Balkans has recently led to the loss of Kosovo for Christian Serbia and put into the hands of the Albanian muslim conquerers. Good job America! It also provoked Russia and gave them a pretext for doing the same with West-friendly Georgia. And now the Americans cry for the stability and soverignty of a small nation. When it suits you…
.
Hypocrites!
.
USA, leave Europe alone!

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

No that was not what I meant and you know it!
Silverberg

You better fall down on your knees and thank the Almighty the USA exists. Because you are going to need us again and when you do you better hope we are listening and willing to assist. You would need to pony up the entire continent of Europe, and that still wouldn’t be enough, for us to sacrifice one red blooded American to save your asses again. But of course being the “primitives” we are, we will probably answer the call.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:38 PM

USA, leave Europe alone!

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

I believe you stuck your nose into our little world today. What did I tell you earlier? If you don’t want to be tread on leave sleeping giants alone. It is obvious you cannot run with the pack here, so please excuse yourself and head for the exit.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:42 PM

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

JC Silverberg, what are your feelings on Darfur? Should anybody feel compelled to put a stop to the genocide taking place there?

Zetterson on September 11, 2008 at 4:48 PM

USA, leave Europe alone!

Yeah, too bad we didn’t listen to you in the past. If we only had we would only be posting to a Nazi instead of reading the egotistical, self-important, rantings of a European “conservative” preaching moral equivalency.

Fatal on September 11, 2008 at 4:59 PM

JC Silverberg, what are your feelings on Darfur? Should anybody feel compelled to put a stop to the genocide taking place there?

Zetterson on September 11, 2008 at 4:48 PM

He doesn’t have to worry about Darfur. He knows when push comes to shove, the USA will deal with it. Then he can pronounce from some dirty European hole that the Americans are bad, bad, bad, again. All the while secretly envying our ability to look evil in the eye and confront it. He will comfort himself with imaginery scenarios in which the Europeans would have done it better or with more nuance. But in a secret little dark corner of his soul he will be flogging himself for his and his countrymen’s cowardice.

church on September 11, 2008 at 4:59 PM

I have worked with, and become friends with, many Europeans. They have hosted me when I worked in their countries, worked along side me in mine, broken bread with me, and shared many bottles of wine and beer.

I’m not an expert on international relations, but I know full-well that some leaders of our allied European nations have taken political risks by participating in military operations with us. Some have since then caved in to the clamoring of their weak-willed citizens, but that is how the world turns.

Out of respect to the Europeans who served with our troops, and in appreciation for the friendship I’ve enjoyed over the years from Spanish, Belgian, French, German, Swiss, and British people I’ve come to know, I’m disinclined to join in the Euro-bashing (although I certainly understand how Silverberg provoked it; being a jerk appears to be his raison d’etre for posting on this site).

What I have observed is that most Europeans feel a disconnect from their governments in a way that extends well beyond what we have here at present (ie: U.S. voter apathy). At a dinner party some years back someone asked each of us to share what we loved most about our countries — I was the only one who said it was my government (and this was during the hideous Clinton years), much to the amusement and surprise of my friends. They love their languages, their regions, their mountains, and their art — Americans fundamentally love their country, by that I mean the system of government.

I know this is a generalization, but for me so far it has held true.

So when a European verbally attacks U.S. actions — such as the war in Iraq — they are caught off-balance when Americans* are offended and fight back. They say “I love Americans, I just hate the U.S. government” in an attempt to mollify us — but for many of us (American conservatives, not libertarians or liberals perhaps) those are the same thing. I found it very difficult to discuss politics with Europeans because of this. They tend to use very inflammatory rhetoric, not because they are trying to be mean, but because they think I feel as removed from my government as they do.

We have some loyal allies in Europe. Maybe they are not all able to step up the way we wish they would, most of their economies and social structures don’t appear able to handle the problems we tackle, but most of us have European roots and fundamentally we share more with them than with people in the developing world or the Middle East (excluding Israel). I think many of the folks who are so critical of us right now will come around in time.

*I hasten to add that Barack Obama and his ilk fall into a different class of Americans, people who are ashamed of their country and crave the acceptance of Europeans. I think this is why he’s not connecting with middle America.

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM

There are already international peacekeepers in Darfur.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:01 PM

Silverberg

How the hell do European women tolerate you she-males? I would simply puke if I had to draw from that pool.

church on September 11, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Now take it easy with the invectives. It would be like me asking how do the American men stand you obese America women?
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When the fat lady sings… Content warning
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You want to continue down this road or shall we try to remain civil?

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

My grandson is in the airforce and my son is in USMC special ops.. I was worried about my son, but I thought that my grandson would be relatively safe while deployed. He returned from Afghanistan where he was wounded and arrived in Texas two days ago. I was asking him how he was wounded and I found out that he was in USAF special ops.. I did not even know that there was an A.F. special ops.. He said that he could not tell me anything about it, but he said that he was worried about his USMC uncle, who neither he nor I have heard from from quite some time. I have got no sympathy for any muslim terrorist, regardless of their percieved grievances.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 5:12 PM

Hypocrites!
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USA, leave Europe alone!

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

You say that until we have to bail you out again, like in WW1 and WW2.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 5:12 PM

Ignore Silverberg. He’s a bug.

Thank you for the sacrifices you and your family are making for us. God protect them.

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM

I spend a lot of time in Europe, where I have got a lot of friends and relatives and not just a few dislike the U.S.. They are brainwashed with their socialism and they know that socialism cannot compete with free markets.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 5:27 PM

I spend a lot of time in Europe, where I have got a lot of friends and relatives and not just a few dislike the U.S.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 5:27 PM

I know, but look at what Reagan accomplished. I think it can get better.

I’m more concerned about how we will deal with China than I am about Europe.

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 5:36 PM

I’m more concerned about how we will deal with China than I am about Europe.

Y-not on September 11, 2008 at 5:36 PM

That’s for sure.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 5:38 PM

There are already international peacekeepers in Darfur.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:01 PM

Doing a fine job too.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQxgAagaIb8k2Xt4eBRd1ZS0O47Q
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=15202&Cr=Sudan&Cr1=
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=17043&Cr=Sudan&Cr1=Darfur

Zetterson on September 11, 2008 at 5:44 PM

JC Silverberg, let me get this straight. You want these people to be responsible for stopping Genocide in Darfur?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30286-2005Mar12.html?nav=rss_world

Zetterson on September 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I don’t know why I even bother answering these ever maligning posts. I have already commented on my opinion of the UN.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM

The terrible old U.S. bailed out Europe in WW1 and WW2 and will probably have to do the same after the muslim invasion.

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Zetterson on September 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I was wondering when someone was going to throw that out there…

“We will not sit still until the luster of that blue helmet is restored.”

There was a luster? Lust, yes – luster, not in a 1000 years (and why we still fund the UN is beyond my comprehension).

SkinnerVic on September 11, 2008 at 6:21 PM

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:57 PM

I suppose you think Neville Chamberlain took the right approach? Poor old chap.

Rick on September 11, 2008 at 6:44 PM

Now take it easy with the invectives. It would be like me asking how do the American men stand you obese America women?
.
When the fat lady sings… Content warning
.
You want to continue down this road or shall we try to remain civil?

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

That statement doesn’t apply to me so that’s fine. I wasn’t speaking of physicality but I’ll leave it to Euro-trash to take it there. I was speaking of your effette mindset.

church on September 11, 2008 at 6:59 PM

I find it hard to watch 9/11 video’s. The anger and sadness it stirs in me is just indescribable…seeing how people reacted is both interesting and sad….

however going from that to realizing that we as a society cannot bring ourselves to man up to the plate in what I view as a cultural war and in another way a clash of civilizations is angering. As well as depressing.

Multiculturalism and political correctness will be our doom if we cannot manage to know when to put our foot down.

Rattl3r on September 11, 2008 at 7:31 PM

It’s late to be getting back to all this, but I had to step out.

dems, when they, if they’d been in charge, would have most likely done nothing.
4shoes on September 11, 2008 at 10:39

AM
What a pointless stupid lie. And how ignorant to be spitefully partisan on a day like today.
Dave Rywall on September 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM

And what did clinton do each time that we were attacked?

Johan Klaus on September 11, 2008 at 3:01 PM

- WTC 1,
- Airforce Barracks in Saudi
_ Amcn. Embassy bombings in Africa
- USS Cole in Yemen
- Blackhawk down
- and don’t forget the Saudis’ offered us Bin Laden.

I remember Clinton sent a few missiles and the FBI for some of these, but Bill never followed through, treated these incidents as crimes and claimed the perpetrators would be brought to justice, but they weren’t. All talk, no action.
So I guess I was just using Clinton as a guide for that rash comment, not the other Democratic presidents.
I don’t usually make general statements like that, and if you don’t know, (you probably do) Dave Rywall is a huge troll, I usually ignore him too.

I read your other posts, and I hope your son and grandson come home ok.

God Bless.

4shoes on September 11, 2008 at 9:27 PM

No that was not what I meant and you know it! It was a rhetorical figure meant to illustrate the relative overreaction of invading Iraq in retaliation for 9-11, something the Iraqis had nothing to do with, their only connection being that they share their muslim faith with the alleged Saudi hijackers. Why not invade Saudia Arabia then? That would at least have been logical given the nationality of the alleged hijackers.
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Iraq had no connection to 9-11.
Iraq had no WMD.
Iraq was cooperating with international inspectors.
Iraqi was still Invaded.
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Hmmmm. Ulterior motive anyone?
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***
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As for that naive poster who claimed the invasion was motivated by humanitarian concerns: Since when did the USA get the right to decide when other peoples “are better off” with an American invasion? Maybe the USA is better off with a Chinese invasion according to China, would that then justify that the Chinese attacks the USA, kills thousands of Americans and demand that you be grateful? No, certainly not! Please think before you post such naive rubbish! Each nation is soverign and must deal with its own problems unless it invites the US to come to its aid like for example South Vietnam did.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Since Iraq was not a response to 9/11, you just make a fool of yourself with this off-topic and pointless argument.

Besides which you keep repeating things that are only true in Democrat Bizarro-world.

– No one ever claimed Iraq was connected to 9/11.
– Iraq was proven to have WMD’s. They proved it themselves when they used them on their own citizens at Halabja. The dispute has always been about the actual extent of those WMD’s, except for those suffering from BDS, who are always convinced there were NO WMD’s.
– Iraq was not cooperating with inspectors. Your claim that they were exposes your absolute refusal to face facts honestly.
– Iraq broke the terms of their cease-fire repeatedly over a period of nearly 10 years. I suppose, it being a Middle Eastern cease-fire, no one ever expected it to be taken seriously?

If Iraq was not a response to 9/11, why do you keep wanting to talk about Iraq in a thread on 9/11?

tom on September 11, 2008 at 10:34 PM

Just saw the broadcast of “102 Minutes”.

The folks who made it have an incredible eye for editing, drama and pathos. It brought the day back to me.

I was in Austin, working a help desk. The calls fell to zero. Someone went down the hall and ripped off a TV on an AV tray, plugged it in for us, and we watched the towers fall. All I could think was, “I wish that I was there. I wish that I could do something to help.”

…then, I thought, “I want vengence.”

I got over the the second thought. It took time. Watching this documentary, that first thought came back in full.

…and today we scarcely think of 9/11, except as a political slogan. Sad.

Puritan1648 on September 11, 2008 at 11:12 PM

As JC continues to berate America for bringing freedom and liberty to the people of Iraq, I wonder how he feels about the following quote.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

- John F. Kennedy

A quote that nearly all modern day liberal democrats seem to have forgotten was uttered by the person so many of them idolize.

I sure wish someone would ask Mr. Obama what his opinion of this quote is, especially in light of his dogmatic insistence that the liberation of Iraq was a mistake.

Fatal on September 11, 2008 at 11:40 PM

A quote that nearly all modern day liberal democrats seem to have forgotten was uttered by the person so many of them idolize.

Fatal

…the simple fact is that, were he alive and active today, Jack Kennedy — tax cuts, national defense — would be a Republican.

The only thing qualifying him as a modern Democrat is his botched foreign policy leading to the Cuban Missle Crisis, his ineptitude with Khrushchev, his imbecilic treatment of Diem and his philandering.

Puritan1648 on September 11, 2008 at 11:48 PM

raq had no connection to 9-11.
Iraq had no WMD.
Iraq was cooperating with international inspectors.
JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Iraq not cooperating on weapons inspections, Kawaguchi says, Salmak Pak, terrorist training camp, By Brian Murphy

Associated Press

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program – a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium – reached a Canadian port yesterday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

Johan Klaus on September 12, 2008 at 12:59 AM

102 minutes that changed America was an excellent program. And Special Operation Forces conducting raids in Pakistan isn’t anything new, the forces they named in the article (the Army’s Delta Force and the Navy’s DEVGRU) have launched nearly a dozen operations in the country. However, instead of conducting them covertly with plausible deniability, we’re now sanctioning raids in the country.

Cr4sh Dummy on September 12, 2008 at 4:21 AM

Iraq had no WMD.
Iraq was cooperating with international inspectors.
Iraqi was still Invaded.

JC Silverberg on September 11, 2008 at 4:00 PM

Until 2002 Iraq was not co-operating with weapons inspectors. They had evicted all the inspectors some four or so years previously and only allowed them to return in 2002 when the USA and UK parked 100,000+ troops on the Iraqi borders and made it very clear that these troops were being made ready for battle. In late 2002 Hans Blix reported that co-operation was still less than required, in February 2003 missiles of forbidden range, that Iraq had denied having, were found, newly made.

The Iraqis had a long history of hiding things and denying that they had them, and they were known to be good at it. Their nuclear weapon ambitions, for example, were not even known about until the early stages of the programme were discovered *by accident* in the early 1990s.

It is well established that Iraq *did* have chemical weapons (the Iraqis admit it and have never denied it). The issue in 2003 was that those weapons were unaccounted for. The Iraqis claimed to have destroyed them but there were several good reasons to disbelieve that claim. As far as I know there is still no evidence that they were destroyed, but by now it is likely they would have degraded to uselessness.

Subsequently it has become apparent that even if the WMD program was considerably scaled back or suspended, the intention of having them was never abandoned.

The Iraqi government would appear to have been gambling that the international community would prevent military action, that the sanctions regime would collapse, and they would be able to continue their horrible ways with impunity. It was a reasonable gamble because for a while the odds did appear to be in their favour. Nonetheless they lost the gamble.

You are right that there was no known connection between Iraq and the events of 11th September 2001, but nobody who had been following Iraq ever really believed that there had been a connection. They were always two different conflicts, despite what agitators, simple-minded politicians and protestors might have said.

YiZhangZhe on September 13, 2008 at 11:21 AM

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