Obama vows: Only I will deliver the nightmarish amnesty America neither wants nor needs

posted at 2:53 pm on September 11, 2008 by Allahpundit

You had me at hello, Barry.

Speaking before the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute Gala, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., blasted Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., for not including comprehensive immigration reform in his party’s platform.

“And when it came time to write his party’s platform, comprehensive reform never made it in,” Obama said before the institution’s annual gala in Washington, D.C. “So, you’ve got to ask yourself: if Sen. McCain won’t stand up to opponents of reform at his own convention, how can you trust him to stand up for change in Washington?”…

“When he was running for his party’s nomination, he abandoned his stance, and said he wouldn’t even support his own legislation if it came up for a vote,” Obama said to the audience. “Well, I don’t know about you, but I think it’s time for a president who won’t walk away from comprehensive immigration reform when it becomes politically unpopular.”

Note how careful he is to stress that McCain only “abandoned” his stance (which he never quite did) during the primaries. Quite so; with the start of the general election, he was back onboard the amnesty bandwagon. Man, was he ever. Fully 69% of the public wants the borders secured before we turn to the important business of amnestizing tens of millions of violations of American immigration law — up from 63% in June, do note — but darned if both our candidates don’t have their hearts set on a comprehensive solution. The key difference between them, apparently? McCain will at least pay lip service to taking care of the borders first.

Awfully unsporting of Barry to knock him over the GOP’s platform, though. Doubtless it was only through Team Maverick’s intervention that a statement of opposition to comprehensive reform was omitted. Exit question one: Is Kaus right? A 50% chance of amnesty under McCain versus a 20% chance under Obama? And exit question two: What’s going to happen when Charlie Gibson asks Palin how she feels about amnesty and she looks in the camera and starts mouthing the old, stomach-churning Maverick-ian platitudes about what it means to be a “true friend” to Hispanics? Second look at Fred!


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So it makes you wonder who’s script MB4, Valiant and others are following. It just makes you wonder.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM

Actually, it does indeed.

Tommygun on September 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Let’s hope McCain sees it the same way :)

JiangxiDad on September 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

McCain only sees pretty Sarah as bait.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Actually, it does indeed.

Tommygun on September 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

Don’t forget Allahpundit, as surely he is our ringleader in this vast conspiracy.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:22 PM

KentAllard on September 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM

LOL! No.

I think you asked a few weeks ago if I was the JAM from somewhere? I was coy. The answer is no. Usually when I try to register as JAM anywhere it is always taken. I was surprised that it was still available here at HA.

JAM on September 11, 2008 at 4:22 PM

It would really suck if Saracuda comes out and states emphatically that she believes in wide open borders just like McCain during the Charlie Gibson interview.

BowHuntingTexas on September 11, 2008 at 4:24 PM

For some, expressing the ideas is more important to many of them actually getting any of them implemented. Short-sighted at best, but in reality, self-indulgent. For some, it’s a sense of conscience (which is why the Left has less of a problem with this–they have no conscience), and they honestly believe they have to make such statements in order to be honest. Nevermind we all suffer as a result.

Tommygun on September 11, 2008 at 4:13 PM

Immigration is a time bomb, and we don’t have the option of slowly moving the position of the nation to the right on the issue, since according to polls a majority are already there. Many people believe this amnesty, of up to 40 million illegals, will do permanent damage to this nation. Every illegal alien and anchor baby proves that open border supporters have all the time in the world, while we don’t.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 4:26 PM

You do seem to wonder a lot in between calling names and wanting to get people who don’t agree with you banned,
MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:05 PM

You’re back to that again?

So MB4, you said:

The difference is that with Obama shamnesty is probably mostly political, with Juan McCain it is at the very core of his being. Also Republicans would stand up to a democrat shamnesty pushing President, but to a fellow Republican shamnesty pushing President, not so much.
MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 3:28 PM

And yet, as PierreLegrand :

And we stopped 3 attempts by a Republican President and his allies. Get a grip. We stopped him when he had a Republican Congress and we stopped him when he didn’t. Jesus has everyone gone absolutely insane? We are seriously talking about allowing Obama to win? Some of you geniuses think that is a good idea?
PierreLegrand on September 11, 2008 at 3:16 PM

So why are you obsessed with something that hasn’t happened for about 2 months, and don’t want to answer a substantive question, such as why you are so full of BS that you claim republicans won’t oppose a program that McCain hasn’t promised he’ll do when the republicans stopped it before with Bush.

You are completely full of BS and/or democrat talking points to slander McCain to the only benefit of doing so – Obama. Why is that?

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

Usually when I try to register as JAM anywhere it is always taken. I was surprised that it was still available here at HA.

JAM on September 11, 2008 at 4:22 PM

I was hoping that you were the JAM who used to comment on Polipundit. He was great, but you seem pretty good.

KentAllard on September 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

McCain only sees pretty Sarah as bait.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM

We are both aware that McCain’s complete motives for the Palin pick are still unknown, and may never be known. But glib comments without any substantive backing weren’t always your stock in trade. The previous MB4 was far too witty for that–a mature older man if I remember correctly. In any case, some parts were enjoyable and helpful. Thank him if you see him.

JiangxiDad on September 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 4:17 PM

We all want the same conservative outcome for our country. McCain is using Palin as a bait and switch. What would prove me wrong in part is if Palin is able to convince McCain to drill in ANWR. Right now he is soaking in her glory for his political gain. As veep, she will be powerless to hold his liberal tendencies in check.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:30 PM

Sorry DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 4:17 PM.

Meant to quote you, not strike you.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:31 PM

I think it’s more like don’t ask don’t tell.

JiangxiDad on September 11, 2008 at 3:40 PM

I think that’s a distinction without a difference. (feel free to skip the rest. It’s not aimed at you, it’s just my standard immigration rant.)

One one side we’ve got conservatives making an end-run around minimum wage laws, on the other side we’ve got liberals playing identity politics. Meanwhile, border communities are suffering (which is fine by politicians because suffering motivates votes).

McCain-Kennedy was a compromise that recognized reality and would’ve helped everybody. It’s insane to me that McCain gets criticized for it; he’s the only honest Republican in the Senate. We’re not shutting down the border. The agriculture and food service industries won’t allow it. So until hell freezes over and we actually secure our border, can we do something – anything – to help deal with the problems in the real world?

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM

You’re back to that again?

You can’t handle the truth!
- Nathan Jessup

why you are so full of BS

You are completely full of BS and/or democrat talking points to slander McCain to the only benefit of doing so – Obama. Why is that?

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:27 PM

There you go again, you childish ninny.
- Ronald Reagan

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM

We just want control of the situation as a sovereign nation. McCain-Kennedy was not an answer to that without sealing the border first.

“Comprehensive immigration reform” has the same ring to it as Washington saying “tax increase now, spending cuts later we promise”.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

You just reminded me of why I am so luke warm on McCain – My fervent hope is that Gov Palin will honestly say she disagrees with him. One can only hope….

Ann on September 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

As veep, she will be powerless to hold his liberal tendencies in check.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:30 PM

If she is alone with him hopefully she will be able to keep some of the old coot’s other tendencies at bay though.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

I can’t tell who’s worse. Alphie or MB4. They argue the same side. They are both trolls. The both add nothing to the conversation. And they both constantly lie.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

Good point. Kinda defuses AP’s concerns. Let’s hope McCain sees it the same way :)

JiangxiDad on September 11, 2008 at 4:11 PM

Indeed.

I read the other day, in an article about McCain’s campaign manager, that McCain himself was tired of playing the wise old man with experience trumpeting up the surge success, etc, and really wanted to get back to being the maverick and the guy who would shake up Washington. That was a reasonable assertion, I though, at the time, and his enthusiasm post-pick I think supports it.

I also heard that he keeps a “No-Irish allowed” sign in his office or some place similar, marking how he really views the issue in terms of ethnic resistance. I just hope Fred or someone close to him can explain to him how many Americans see it: as an issue of rule of law and concern over economic impact. Heck, I think many people would favor increased legal immigration.

Spirit of 1776 on September 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM

I can’t tell who’s worse. Alphie or MB4. They argue the same side. They are both trolls. The both add nothing to the conversation. And they both constantly lie.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

You have become totally unhinged. You are a childish ninny who never seems to learn.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM

I can’t tell who’s worse. Alphie or MB4. They argue the same side. They are both trolls. The both add nothing to the conversation. And they both constantly lie.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

You have become totally unhinged. You are a childish ninny who never seems to learn.

P.S. – A childish ninny with delusions of Stalinhood.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:42 PM

McCain-Kennedy was a compromise that recognized reality and would’ve helped everybody. It’s insane to me that McCain gets criticized for it;

Color me crazy then. You sir, are ANTI LAW and ORDER.

McCain/Kennedy was not only bad policy, but poorly written law. It was so full of holes as to end up being an unenforcable blanket amnesty of anyone in America. It gave only 24 hours to do background checks, which is patently impossible. It said you could use Afidavits from OTHER ILLEGALS to proove you were here at the time needed for anmesty. It gave IMMUNITY to those who had perpetuated Fraud on us for YEARS… and even gave INCOME TAX immunity for those who had not paid taxes here (you only had to pay a couple years of those taxes, not them all, like a normal American would have).

I know many would like to see McCain get elected and will go to the mat for him, but please don’t try to Put lipstick on that pig…

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

And two more examples of not answering the question and adding nothing to the discussion.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

I’d say the difference is more like a 50% chance of passing a semi-amnesty under McCain, compared with a 20% chance under Obama,

Now that is horse crap. McCain might have a 50% chance to pass anything normal people would consider amnesty but Obama has the same likelihood as Bill Clinton did, that is to say 100%.

McCain will at least respond to the public, Obama will respond to party pressure and to hell with the public.

Speakup on September 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM

One can only hope….

Ann on September 11, 2008 at 4:39 PM

I keep hoping that I grow wings so that I can fly, but I haven’t jumped off any tall buildings.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM

Does this sound like a guy who will push for a fence once he has power?

McCain had been asked how debate over the immigration bill was playing politically. “In the short term, it probably galvanizes our base,” he said. “In the long term, if you alienate the Hispanics, you’ll pay a heavy price.” Then he added, unable to help himself, “By the way, I think the fence is least effective. But I’ll build the goddamned fence if they want it.”

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:45 PM

McCain-Kennedy was a compromise that recognized reality and would’ve helped everybody. It’s insane to me that McCain gets criticized for it; he’s the only honest Republican in the Senate. We’re not shutting down the border. The agriculture and food service industries won’t allow it. So until hell freezes over and we actually secure our border, can we do something – anything – to help deal with the problems in the real world?

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM

I personally am not against a guest worker program, but since there are already several in place that’s not their objective. Illegals are here for mercenary reasons, and not for the good of the nation, so they won’t have a problem using the electoral process to strip the nation clean, and the Democrats are more than willing to help. Every amnesty gives them more political power to pursue that goal, and that’s why we can’t allow a “comprehensive immigration reform” to happen.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 4:45 PM

McCain will at least respond to the public, Obama will respond to party pressure and to hell with the public.
Speakup on September 11, 2008 at 4:44 PM

McCain has had it out for the base since 2000. We are the last people he will listen to. Party pressure on both sides wants open borders.

In either case, we need a conservative majority in congress to stop either of these asshats. Palin will go a long way towards getting out that vote. The best thing she could do os out-maverick the maverick from the right.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:51 PM

The previous MB4 was far too witty for that–a mature older man if I remember correctly.

JiangxiDad on September 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM

I am young enough to be the old Juan McCoot’s son, although just barely.

In any case, some parts were enjoyable and helpful. Thank him if you see him.

JiangxiDad on September 11, 2008 at 4:29 PM

Have no fear, Doctor JD. It’s still the same little ‘ol lovable me!

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:51 PM

We just want control of the situation as a sovereign nation. McCain-Kennedy was not an answer to that without sealing the border first.

“Comprehensive immigration reform” has the same ring to it as Washington saying “tax increase now, spending cuts later we promise”.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM

See, I think “border security” has that same ring to it. It ain’t gonna happen. Since when do politicians ignore 69% of the population? Sure, they defeated amnesty (which is different from our current policy how?), but I didn’t see any border security bills introduced afterward. Both parties probably wet their pants laughing at the voters after that one. They get all the credit for taking a stand against illegal immigration by doing nothing at all, and the one guy who sincerely wanted to help solve the problem comes out looking like a villain.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 4:53 PM

And two more examples of not answering the question and adding nothing to the discussion.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM

You are below my “pay grade”, you name calling Stalinist in your own mind childish little McKoolaid guzzling ninny.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 4:54 PM

When President Obama proposes citizenship for illegals the GOP will fight against it. When President McCain propose citizenship for illegals the GOP will fight FOR it.

Thresher, I recall that many Republicans and especially conservatives, fought against amnesty when President Bush was supporting it.

Methinks that you are an Obama supporter, trying some reverse psychology on this issue, which really hasn’t been an issue so far in this race.

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM

but I didn’t see any border security bills introduced afterward.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 4:53 PM

Actualy there were Bills put forward in the House, including the one to build the current wall, which was passed and then signed into law…

Do you even pay attention to whats going on?

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM

Sorry DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 4:17 PM.

Meant to quote you, not strike you.

Valiant on September 11, 2008 at 4:31 PM

What a great idea when you don’t agree with someone!

Obama/Biden….Pelosi/Reid….Matthews/Olbermann

Rovin on September 11, 2008 at 5:02 PM

The other factor that too many forget is that Obama is the Soros-backed candidate, and Soros is an OPEN BORDER advocate.

Obama is just pandering for the illegals’ vote because, just as someone else here said, various community organizers™ (like Acorn) have made concerted efforts to register those not otherwise eligible to vote.

The Dems a la Hillary Clinton have been pushing to give convicted felons the vote, too.

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 5:02 PM

I think if we do not use the experience of the Reagan/80s amnesty as a lesson we are fools. Those laws said we would have strong enforcement. That never happened. And there was so much fraud. That’s why we have to take immigration reform one small step at time.

“Comprehensive” is too much wriggle room. Even if the law says everything you want it to say you can’t be certain of enforcement.

Step by step.

First control the border. FIRST.

When we are certain that we know who is coming in and out. Then I am open to figuring out what happens with those here illegally. Frankly, our lack of enforcement sent a mixed message to them about their welcome. And I am positive they didn’t have the concept of a law and order society.

But then we need to know who these people are and make sure we don’t let criminals stay here. After that resident status as Foreign Nationals would be okay with me. No voting rights, until the born in America generation. English requirement definitely. That sort of compromise I can see. And determining how many workers we need without pushing wages lower and overwhelming in Americans in competing positions with immigrants.

But FIRST we have to get control over the border.

I actually don’t see why a national ID is such a problem. I like the idea for lots of reasons. Voting being a biggie.

petunia on September 11, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Methinks that you are an Obama supporter, trying some reverse psychology on this issue, which really hasn’t been an issue so far in this race.

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 4:56 PM

There are a lot of things that haven’t been an issue in this race. Immigration, and entitlement programs that, in the not too distant future, will consume nearly all of the governments tax revenue. I might gauge how important an issue is by it’s lack of discussion. Wasn’t immigration banned as a topic at one GOP primary debate? I can’t remember that ever happening before, so if a politician doesn’t want to talk about it, then I know it’s important.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 5:06 PM

The other factor that too many forget is that Obama is the Soros-backed candidate, and Soros is an OPEN BORDER advocate.

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 5:02 PM

Maybe this sudden change is partly to get McCain to talk about a weakness and partly to get the Dem machine headed by Soros to cough up more money. Fund raising by selling out the country. Sounds about right.

petunia on September 11, 2008 at 5:06 PM

So it makes you wonder who’s script MB4, Valiant and others are following. It just makes you wonder.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM

their ‘script’ is anti-depressants and Vikes

Janos Hunyadi on September 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

I actually don’t see why a national ID is such a problem.

petunia on September 11, 2008 at 5:03 PM

People in the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marines have what amounts to a “National ID”. If they are not too good for it then surely the rest of us aren’t.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

their ’script’ is anti-depressants and Vikes

Janos Hunyadi on September 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Don’t give up your day job, if you have one. Try to come up with some better material too.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

People in the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marines have what amounts to a “National ID”. If they are not too good for it then surely the rest of us aren’t.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

I have always wondered why people who oppose a national ID are just fine with using their SS# as a defacto national ID.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

I personally am not against a guest worker program, but since there are already several in place that’s not their objective. Illegals are here for mercenary reasons, and not for the good of the nation, so they won’t have a problem using the electoral process to strip the nation clean, and the Democrats are more than willing to help. Every amnesty gives them more political power to pursue that goal, and that’s why we can’t allow a “comprehensive immigration reform” to happen.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 4:45 PM

I can’t resent their mercenary reasons. They want a better life for their families than the squalor of campesino life in Mexico; and what decent mother or father wouldn’t?

Our current immigration policy is the perfect situation for U.S. businesses. They oppose border security because that would cut off their supply of cheap labor; but they also oppose integration, because an isolated population is an exploitable population. All I’m saying – either enforce minimum wage laws (fat chance), or do something so that illegal immigrants have a stake in their communities.

I think if you give them an incentive to come out in the open and join the rest of America, they’ll respond as well as the Irish, or Dutch Germans, or Polish, or whatever former ethnic minority we’ve come to know as simply American.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM

I have always wondered why people who oppose a national ID are just fine with using their SS# as a defacto national ID.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Does seem a mite strange. My SS# was my Army service number. I’m guessing that it’s still that way.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:14 PM

People in the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marines have what amounts to a “National ID”. If they are not too good for it then surely the rest of us aren’t.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:09 PM

/pulls out his Geneva Forces compliant ID card… with an expiration date of INDEF

Yep, National ID… make it free, tie it to Drivers Licenses, Passports, Voter Registration, and Citizenship… all of which could be under Federal Jurisdiction… (drivers license under interstate commerce clause).

It would solve soooooo many problems.

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 5:15 PM

I am young enough to be the old Juan McCoot’s son, although just barely

If this is true, MB4, you are too young to be the commander of a field artillery battery in “the Republic of Vietnam, 1971-72″, which you’ve claimed to be

with no specifics, of course: you “got around a lot” and rattled off a list of cities in “the Republic of Vietnam” with no units mentioned

couldn’t look those up on the internet, eh?

Janos Hunyadi on September 11, 2008 at 5:15 PM

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM

Or, spend the next two years building a National ID card, and then cut off all benefits to anyone who does not have one…

Self deportation is the answer.

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 5:16 PM

I can’t resent their mercenary reasons. They want a better life for their families than the squalor of campesino life in Mexico; and what decent mother or father wouldn’t?

Our current immigration policy is the perfect situation for U.S. businesses. They oppose border security because that would cut off their supply of cheap labor; but they also oppose integration, because an isolated population is an exploitable population.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM

Excellent point!

I long ago got sick and tired of the sleazy chuck-and-jive shamnesty politicians of which John McCain has been the chief ring leader. The reason that Republican supporters of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” want it is so that they and/or their campaign contributors can have serf labor. They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.

The reason that shamnesty Democrats want this is so that those who are now illegal can become legal and vote for them. Many of them probably also want to do this for the same reason that shamnesty Republicans do too.

Does anyone think that many of these shamnesty politicians really care one wit otherwise for the illegals.

Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?

Come to live in their gated communities, other than as servants?

Invite them to their yachts, other than as low paid deck hands and/or servants?

Invite them to their cocktail parties?

Introduce them to their daughters?

The big majority of the Mexicans who have come here/will come here are Indios and Mezclados, not the Spanish descendant light-skinned ruling class of Mexico. This is a form of ethnic cleansing by Mexico’s ruling class.

So the shamnesty politicians like John McCain are aiding and abetting and facilitating ethnic cleansing.

If the U.N. were not such a joke, they would all be standing trial for trying to reintroduce a form of latter-day-slavery in the United States and for the mass ethnic cleansing of Mexico.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Actualy there were Bills put forward in the House, including the one to build the current wall, which was passed and then signed into law…

Do you even pay attention to whats going on?

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM

Wait, the “current” wall? Do you mean that vast expanse of creosote and open desert along our souther border? Yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right on that.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM

McCain has promised securing borders first. We do need a comprehensive review of immigration. It must be debated in congress openly with time for citizen input. Write your suggestions to how we deal with those who broke the law by coming in illegally or overstaying. Some are thugs while some have settled in and assimilated. Do we truly deport all? Is there a measure of compassion for those who assimilate, follow our laws, contribute to our society and pay taxes? We need discussion and debate. The legislation that they tried to force down our throats was wrong in the covert manner it was developed and the resistance to debate or amendment. Why do we publicize the INS sweeps and the number of illegal aliens arrested and never read of any penalty paid by employers? We need to fine employers in greater amounts of money than they save by paying low wages to illegals so that the magnet is deactivated. Visas should not be renewable indefinitely, nor granted until health and criminal background checks are completed. If citizenship is determined as a possibility for some, it must have a time frame to complete. If not done, Visas should be revoked. State laws that have increased employer penalties etc. have caused a number to self deport. I cannot write all of my thoughts or see unintended consequences of my thoughts. I do believe that if congress will engage citizens groups and individuals to pursue aspects of any plan we should be able to come up with plans and laws which safeguard our nation, our economy and still have fairness and compassion.

Pat in NC on September 11, 2008 at 5:19 PM

think if you give them an incentive to come out in the open and join the rest of America, they’ll respond as well as the Irish, or Dutch Germans, or Polish, or whatever former ethnic minority we’ve come to know as simply American.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM

I am all for helping someone’s child right up to the point where you’re hurting my child, and we have reached that point. I like you’re line about integration thought, but it’s a shame you couldn’t have came up with a group that had successfully integrated into American society that wasn’t European.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Wait, the “current” wall? Do you mean that vast expanse of creosote and open desert along our souther border? Yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right on that.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Yes, the wall that they put into a bill, and signed, after you said they had put no security bills forward after the death of your “comprehensive reform”.

America COULD secure the borders… and it can be done easily with the Miltarys help… you know, the military that is there to defend Americas borders?

We could do it… just appologists like you will not let us.

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 5:23 PM

I am young enough to be the old Juan McCoot’s son, although just barely {males can produce sperm pretty young sometimes]

If this is true, MB4, you are too young to be the commander of a field artillery battery in “the Republic of Vietnam, 1971-72″, which you’ve claimed to be

I never said that I commanded a battery, I have said that I was an 1193 (I was also an 8105) and one could be a Captain as young as 21 back then.

with no specifics, of course: you “got around a lot” and rattled off a list of cities in “the Republic of Vietnam” with no units mentioned

couldn’t look those up on the internet, eh?

Janos Hunyadi on September 11, 2008 at 5:15 PM

I have said that I was in a unit under XXIV corps (I am not going to say the exact subunit on the internet) and I don’t need to look up anything as to all the places I was in RVN on the internet other than the spelling foe some of them.

You seem to have developed a stalkers obsession with me. That is not good for you and irritating to me.

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:30 PM

So it makes you wonder who’s script MB4, Valiant and others are following. It just makes you wonder.

wise_man on September 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM

They’re either writing in Ron Paul or voting for Barr (Now there’s a “winner”.)

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 5:33 PM

Romeo13 on September 11, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Enforce minimum wage laws, tax the heck out of international wire transfers, introduce a working national ID system. And, above all, be fair to the millions of workers we’ve been inviting over here for the last 50 years with a wink and a nod. The border fence is pure snake oil. I really don’t think the fence supporters understand how long our border is.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:34 PM

They’re either writing in Ron Paul or voting for Barr (Now there’s a “winner”.)

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 5:33 PM

I don’t know about Valiant and others, but if you contrary opinion intolerant McKoolaid drinkers keep irritating me I just might vote for Obama!!!

MB4 on September 11, 2008 at 5:36 PM

They’re either writing in Ron Paul or voting for Barr (Now there’s a “winner”.)

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 5:33 PM

After I heard what Bar’s VP choice had to say Obama’s grades, and affirmative action, then I admit I’m tempted.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 5:37 PM

I am all for helping someone’s child right up to the point where you’re hurting my child, and we have reached that point. I like you’re line about integration thought, but it’s a shame you couldn’t have came up with a group that had successfully integrated into American society that wasn’t European.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 5:21 PM

I should’ve included Asian-americans, African-americans, among other hyphenations. This is a tough issue for me (as with everybody). I grew up with a lot of the people that we’re clamoring to deport. They’re my neighbors, I’ve worked with them at times, some are friends. On the other hand, I look around at some of the communities I grew up in, and the problems of illegal immigration are obvious. I’m just looking for a solution that’s fair to most of the people, and I feel like McCain-Kennedy got us halfway there (and the criticism of McCain in conservative circles has been hypocritical and self-serving).

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:43 PM

should’ve included Asian-americans, African-americans, among other hyphenations. This is a tough issue for me (as with everybody). I grew up with a lot of the people that we’re clamoring to deport. They’re my neighbors, I’ve worked with them at times, some are friends. On the other hand, I look around at some of the communities I grew up in, and the problems of illegal immigration are obvious. I’m just looking for a solution that’s fair to most of the people, and I feel like McCain-Kennedy got us halfway there (and the criticism of McCain in conservative circles has been hypocritical and self-serving).

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 5:43 PM

I’ll go with Asians, but it’s a tougher sell to say that African Americans as a group has successfully integrated into American society. You can say it’s justified because of slavery, whatever the reason they have resisted assimilation, and chosen to develop an alternate parallel culture.

I’m not claiming that illegals are bad people. They are people just like any other with good and bad, but it’s about what’s best for the nation. We aren’t sending people to the seventh ring of hell when we send them back to Mexico. Mexico has the 15th largest GDP in the world just behind Australia, so would you consider it torture to deport some Australian?

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 6:03 PM

McCain-Kennedy had so many loopholes that it would have provided a tidy income for immigration lawyers and tied up our courts. Too many of our laws are written by lawyers looking out for their own brotherhood. Remember Arlen Specter praising the bill?

onlineanalyst on September 11, 2008 at 6:06 PM

I’ll go with Asians, but it’s a tougher sell to say that African Americans as a group has successfully integrated into American society. You can say it’s justified because of slavery, whatever the reason they have resisted assimilation, and chosen to develop an alternate parallel culture.

In defense of African Americans it’s important to remember that it’s difficult to assimilate into a culture that wishes to practice separate but equal.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 6:09 PM

Mexico has the 15th largest GDP in the world just behind Australia, so would you consider it torture to deport some Australian?

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 6:03 PM

Australia’s per capita GDP is $36,300, Mexico’s is $12,800. I would guess that a good chunk of Mexico’s GDP goes to their nationalized oil industry, which goes, in turn, to graft. The lot of the poor in Mexico isn’t quite hell, but it’s not a nice place to send people that we’ve basically invited into our country. I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If conservatives ever show any signs of being serious about border control, you can count on my vote. Until then, I think integration is the solution.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Today’s double-barrel assault on McCain/Palin from the Obama Ministry of Truth:

1) Sarah Palin is so flustered (which means she’s a weak woman), she needs advice from Rick Warren instead of her own pastor who is an anti-Semitic religious nut (which means Palin’s an anti-Semitic religious nut).

2) Hey! Let’s talk about comprehensive immigration reform! (Because that is the issue that most divides the Republican base about McCain. And maybe, if we all just vote for Obama or stay home or vote for a third party, then everything will get so bad that things will simply have to get better.)

And on both issues, all the usual suspects are posting all the usual talking points to encourage as much doubt and dissension as possible. And that’s because Obama is behind and he needs something to pick up his numbers fast. And what better time to do it than while Palin is busy in Alaska and McCain is at a truce at Ground Zero?

Or, perhaps I misreading all of this.

Loxodonta on September 11, 2008 at 6:16 PM

Australia’s per capita GDP is $36,300, Mexico’s is $12,800. I would guess that a good chunk of Mexico’s GDP goes to their nationalized oil industry, which goes, in turn, to graft.

Mexico is not a poor country, but it is the country that Mexicans created. The fact that it is ran poorly, and consumed by corruption with a tendency for socialism is not a ringing endorsement for amnesty and allowing them a say in our political process.

The lot of the poor in Mexico isn’t quite hell, but it’s not a nice place to send people that we’ve basically invited into our country.

I didn’t send out any invitations, and you probably didn’t either. Greedy business owners did, so I don’t feel obligated by their invitation.

If conservatives ever show any signs of being serious about border control, you can count on my vote. Until then, I think integration is the solution.

RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Hispanics are engaged in ethnic cleansing of blacks in Southern California, and I don’t call that integration.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 6:39 PM

“Well, I don’t know about you, but I think it’s time for a president who won’t walk away from comprehensive immigration reform when it becomes politically unpopular.”

You’re right Barry, that sort of “walking away” is reserved for wars that have become politically unpopular. You hypocritical, shamelessly dishonest POS. This guy frightens me, folks.

RightWinged on September 11, 2008 at 8:11 PM

Hispanics are engaged in ethnic cleansing of blacks in Southern California, and I don’t call that integration.

DFCtomm on September 11, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Mexicans are the un-black cheap labor

Give the illegals a vote, and they are a black voter replacement squad

The rush to amnesty tells me how much American business loves the illagal worker commodity

Heck they dont need health insurance, they use the ER for free.

Business uses Hispanic labor agents who are paid to pretend their laborers are legal and make sure the boat does not get rocked

Illegals don’t match the factory drones of China, but they serve as the pack animals of American service and labor.

Just another commodity being kept out of free trade by protectionist American workers

There are certainly a fair amount of illegals voting this election, but I think it is the desirability of this highly malleable labor block to both the unions on the left, and the bosses on the right that has influenced politicians most immediately

entagor on September 11, 2008 at 10:49 PM

McCain-Kennedy was a compromise that recognized reality and would’ve helped everybody. It’s insane to me that McCain gets criticized for it; he’s the only honest Republican in the Senate. We’re not shutting down the border. The agriculture and food service industries won’t allow it. So until hell freezes over and we actually secure our border, can we do something – anything – to help deal with the problems in the real world
RightOFLeft on September 11, 2008 at 4:33 PM

…. The landscaping industry won’t allow it, the construction industry won’t allow it and now in SoCal you must be bilingual to be a receptionist, a bank teller,…. anyone who works with the public. WAKE UP – WAKE UP – WAKE UP. Subsistance level jobs are no longer for Americans and real jobs are getting harder and harder to find.

Ernest on September 12, 2008 at 8:50 AM

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