Fox News poll: McCain leads by three, gains 16 points among independents since last month
posted at 3:44 pm on September 10, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Obama hasn’t lost ground since last month — he was at 42 then and he’s at 42 now — but McCain’s gained six points since, thanks mainly to that surge among indies. If the CW is right and independents are currently overrepresented by conservatives disgruntled with the GOP but sympathetic to its principles, then the convention was a huge success in drawing them back. Current favorable ratings among indies: McCain 67/21, Palin 55/25, Obama 50/39. 40 percent of them say they’re more likely to vote for McCain after the Palin pick versus 31 who say less, again suggesting a rightward tilt. Note the lines here, too, especially on the experience question:
I’m skeptical that voters conceive of experience this way, as a package deal, but no matter. Obviously, Biden’s eternity in D.C. isn’t doing much to help Obama on this point, even with doubts about Palin weighing a bit on McCain (elsewhere, independents say they’re more comfortable with Biden as VP than Palin, 53/31). Besides, she has compensating qualities:
Thus dies the left’s plutocrat meme. In fact, I wonder if the most amazing result there isn’t Palin’s numbers but the fact that McCain trails Obama by only two among independents.
A little more Palinmania for you. I ask again, when will Biden be Eagletoned?
And finally, two questions proving that principles bow to partisanship, at least for a significant minority, in the heat of the election. Doubtless the GOP numbers would look very different if it was a Democrat who was dealing with Palin’s family drama:
The most amazing result not shown above? Palin’s favorable rating among Republicans is 87/5 — which is actually exceeded by McCain’s own split of 94/4, a result that makes me think that particle collider did do something weird to the space/time continuum and we’re now all trapped in some alternate dimension where Maverick has morphed into some Reaganesque conservative standard bearer. In fact, for all the hype independents will get from this poll, the dirty little secret to McCain’s lead is (and has been) that he’s more popular with his party than Obama is with his. Republicans split 88/5 between McCain and The One; Democrats split 9/79. Bear that in mind the next time you stumble across some breathless article about “Obamicans.” Exit question from a resolute pessimist: Are people starting to believe?
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When does a bounce become a surge ??
tarpon on September 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Heh, I am starting to worry about our gains not translating into a wider general gap though…..
“bothersome”
any stats guru that can explain it in neanderthal for me?
sven10077 on September 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM
From Politico
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 3:47 PM
Palin is the only conservative running. I expect amnesty in the first year of McCain’s presidency. . . while it will burden social security, medicare, and local governments, other than that McCain will likely stay out of my pocketbook – which makes him less bad than Obama.
I’d say I’m as independent as they get. (HAPPILY)
ThackerAgency on September 10, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Palin was brought in to shore up the base, but she’s paying additional dividends.
And of course the Obama-Palin comparison just makes Maverick look more presidential.
aunursa on September 10, 2008 at 3:48 PM
It’s official:
The Democrats are in complete MELTDOWN!
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 3:49 PM
Matt Damon’s gone from horrified to psychotic.
Cicero43 on September 10, 2008 at 3:49 PM
I’ll tell you what terrifies me: Obama panics, dumps Biden, and brings Hilary back into the race as his VP, out of sheer desparation.
VastRightWingConspirator on September 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
I wanted to point this out Allah from Gallup
Now, turning to this year’s congressional elections,
5. If the elections for Congress were being held today, which party’s candidate would you vote for in your Congressional district ?
Likely Voters 2008 Sep 5-7
Democrats 45
Republicans 50
Not Sure 6
William Amos on September 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
… a result that makes me think that particle collider did do something weird to the space/time continuum …
Ha! Somebody turned on the Flux Capacitor!
Tony737 on September 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
And now the main streamers have brushed away the polls as being a mere anomaly, it will swing back they say.
Go McCain! Go Palin!
mindhacker on September 10, 2008 at 3:51 PM
Numbers aren’t bearing you out sweetie…is having a vacuum cleaner inserted into your body a prerequisite to be a donk?
sven10077 on September 10, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Things are going well for us republicans. This lib meltdown might even hurt them in the local and state elections. Keep it up idiotic left!
The liberals in my town in NJ are posting NOBAMA stickers on their car! I NEVER seen anti-democrat stickers in NJ.
jencab on September 10, 2008 at 3:52 PM
The real polla are the ones that the DNC and the RNC run internally, the ones they pay big bucks for.
You can tell what those polls say by how the campaign acts. One campaign is steady, the other is grasping for some traction.
One campaign has stayed on task, the other is trying desperately to find some ground to stake out as their own.
Obama’s and McCain’s campaign see the internals, and I would bet they look a lot worse then what we are seeing for Obama.
right2bright on September 10, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Did you see the the woman that said that Palin’s only qualification is she’s never had an abortion?
Chudi on September 10, 2008 at 3:52 PM
If the elections for Congress were being held today, which party’s candidate would you vote for in your Congressional district ?
Likely Voters 2008 Sep 5-7
Democrats 45
Republicans 50
Not Sure 6
Holy CRAP! How sweet would that be t win back the House and Senate on the Cuda’s
coatskirt tails?Tony737 on September 10, 2008 at 3:52 PM
I wanted to point this out Allah from Gallup
Now, turning to this year’s congressional elections,
5. If the elections for Congress were being held today, which party’s candidate would you vote for in your Congressional district ?
Likely Voters 2008 Sep 5-7
Democrats 45
Republicans 50
Not Sure 6
William Amos on September 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
sven10077 on September 10, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Well they are now…
right2bright on September 10, 2008 at 3:53 PM
Messiah fatigue
Chuck Schick on September 10, 2008 at 3:53 PM
Allah, you’re scaring me… are you actually starting to believe too?
lionheart on September 10, 2008 at 3:54 PM
BIG BIG BIG NEWS BREAKING NEWS IN S C FROM DEMOCRATIC LEADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marines for Mccain on September 10, 2008 at 3:54 PM
The post needs a reading from the pessimeter.
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 3:55 PM
which would be?
upinak on September 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM
” Exit question from a resolute pessimist: Are people starting to believe?”
Starting yeah definitely. Will feel much better after an interview or two and the Biden/Palin debate.
Dash on September 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Yup. Exactly. Palin is the only conservative. Not that other guy. Nope. Thacker Agency is completely correct on this one. Well,
Except he has his facts completely pulled out of his arse, but yeah … Shall we go through this again? Okay, sure.
wise_man on September 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM
I’m sure Allah will be featuring this SOON. This is HUGE!
Here it is again.
From Politico:
Can Democrats REALLY be this friggin’ STUPID?
REALLY?
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Already posted it.
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 3:57 PM
Here you go: Gallop’s current point spread for McCain over Obama in Neanderthal.
Loxodonta on September 10, 2008 at 3:58 PM
Biden thanks Eagleton for helping him in rough times
William Amos on September 10, 2008 at 3:59 PM
He doesn’t get paid for his smarts.
How very fortunate for him.
LimeyGeek on September 10, 2008 at 4:00 PM
Did Barack Plagierize his speech?
Boy it looks like Obama lifted that line (just before the pig comment) word for word from a Toles cartoon:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/09/10/did-obama-steal-his-lip-stick-pig-speech-political-cartoon
I guess being around Joe Biden is rubbing off on Barack Obama, gaffes and plagierism.
Mr. Joe on September 10, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Ugh ugh *thank you*
sven<—-goes back to gnawing mammoth bone
sven10077 on September 10, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Yeh, hey I’m an independent, too. That way, no matter who wins, I can complain if I don’t like something.
Mr_Magoo on September 10, 2008 at 4:02 PM
Let it go dude. No need starting up an old fight, especially on the ground you are defending. McCain is a Maverick with a 94/4 split. Let it go.
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 4:03 PM
He might as well slit his wrists because Hill would not jump on a sinking ship and everyone but Matt Damon would see the desperation as a disqualifier.
moxie_neanderthal on September 10, 2008 at 4:03 PM
In keeping with today’s Wolves & Pigs theme:
Just enough to win by the hair on your chinny, chin, chin.
Loxodonta on September 10, 2008 at 4:03 PM
Wow. They don’t stop giving, do they?
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Ha! Somebody turned on the Flux Capacitor!
Tony737 on September 10, 2008 at 3:50 PM
One point twenty-one gigawatts?!!!
juanito on September 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Those numbers are real the democrats are spooked beyond belief by this shift.
William Amos on September 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Check the last question in the first box. It might explain a few things. I have no doubt the other side has seen this, so I’m not giving them any secrets.
I am surprised our resident morale-buster missed this.
46-39 Dems.
Issues still trump experience.
Tommygun on September 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM
McCain/Palin really should not give up on Illinois.
tehd on September 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Yes – especially the nutroots. Here is the latest response from the fever swamp.
ManlyRash on September 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM
that would be too sweet to see the dems lose the house and senate too. the wails of anguish would be music to my ears…they live for power and go crazy when they don’t have it.
of course it would be attributed to racism…so predictable.
right4life on September 10, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Never. Obama can’t (won’t) admit that he made a mistake choosing Biden, and it’s too late to switch horses anyway. There’s no upside for Hillary to join Obama’s losing effort now, even if Obama were willing to dump Biden. And there’s no other Dim candidate who can step in to save the day. Unless Biden drops dead, Obama’s stuck with him.
AZCoyote on September 10, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Hey dude, why don’t you give the people who claim McCain isn’t a conservative at all .. not one bit …. a hard time.
Dude.
wise_man on September 10, 2008 at 4:06 PM
I’m really starting to believe that we are seeing the beginning of the end of the modern far-left take-over of the Democrat Party. The hatred that consumes these scum is starting to tear the party apart. It seems to have a momentum of it’s own and they simply can’t control themselves. The curtain isn’t falling in front of The Great Oz- it’s burning away.
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Not to be the bearer of bad news, but…
Now that The One is begining to slide the media are begining to realize their part in his fall and are now making efforts to correct it. Add in the looming ethics investigation that will no doubt sound very damning and be a ready made weapon for the MSM’s counterattack.
It’s still a long way to November.
Browncoatone on September 10, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Because it’s true that his conservative rating has been diving. And while it has stayed in the 80s, he has missed enough votes to make the rating relatively meaningless. And because the best indicator of a Senator’s view is the legislation he offers, it’s clear that he’s not the ideal conservative.
But he is what he is, and the base has rallied around that. It’s silly to repackage him as a “conservative” when he’s already accepted as a “maverick”. No body wants their intelligence insulted, and that will just bleed votes from McCain (as is happening to Obama, incidentally).
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 4:09 PM
haha
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 4:10 PM
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 4:07 PM
Like I said before:
Tommygun on September 10, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Tommygun on September 10, 2008 at 4:10 PM
The number that stands out to me is that among Democrats, only 2% prefer Biden over Palin for “Understands the problems of everyday life in America.”
Palinmania, indeed.
jimmy the notable on September 10, 2008 at 4:10 PM
I live in Central Illinois- the people have had their fill of the corrupt Democrat controlled State government.
Since Palin came on the scene the Republicans, Independent’s, and Blue-Dog Democrats are really fire up for McCain/Palin.
There is definitely a movement building up around here.
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 4:11 PM
meanwhile 23,000 people show up in Virginia for McCain/Palin rally
William Amos on September 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Can Democrats REALLY be this friggin’ STUPID?
REALLY?
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Marines for Mccain on September 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM
But you’re missing the point, less than 100% of Republicans actually believe we even need change. I think Bush still polls in the high 60s for approval ratings amongst republicans. Just because McCain adopted the “real change” thing, doesn’t mean we all believe in change. All Democrats believe in change, obviously, so they’re definitely going to win that poll. The surprising thing to me is how close it is.
jimmy the notable on September 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM
I very much doubt that Biden will be dropped. It will be seen as an act of sheer desperation . . . especially if he’s replaced with Hillary.
The reason why Obama didn’t name Hillary in the first place was because he did not want his administration to be in the shadow of Bill.
And it also goes without saying that when Eagleton, himself, was dropped from the ticket, they lost.
eaglescout1998 on September 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Fixed, and No – neither his ego nor his wife would ever allow it.
You can stop asking. And while you’re at it, crank the “pissy”-meter back up a notch or two.
Mr_Magoo on September 10, 2008 at 4:14 PM
it seems like Daley runs all of Illinois, not just chicago…along with the chicago outfit no doubt…
right4life on September 10, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Its all about the electoral college…
Gotta win Colorado, NH, and Virginia…
Keep the pressure on in Michigan, Wisconsin, New Mexico and Pennsylvania
joepub on September 10, 2008 at 4:14 PM
I have a feeling I’ll be posting this link with increasing frequency as we approach November.
ManlyRash on September 10, 2008 at 4:14 PM
“Sweet fancy Moses!”
Mr_Magoo on September 10, 2008 at 4:15 PM
OMG: There’s an acronym I don’t often use but…
The McCain, Palin campaign has just taken down there ad smearing Obama with lipstick…!
CBS objected to the use of Katy Couric’s image in the fabrication.
Will silly exercises like they have just attempted help their new polling numbers…?
Time will tell…!
J_Gocht on September 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
You are seeing what I’m seeing *waves at FiveWays*
They have seriously ticked off the suburban women upstate; and if they think they can count on what they usually get from the downstate blue cities-they’ve got a surprise coming.
Most of those union members drive to work…from small towns…and we cling to our guns and religion here. heh.
tehd on September 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
While Intrade is a good indicator of the state of the race, I also remember people gaining lots of money based on bad exit polling in 2004 showing a Kerry landslide. I think that we should still temper our happiness with pessimism. This is still a very Democratic year, and if McCain/ Palin wins, it will be right up there with Dewey defeats Truman.
Illinidiva on September 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
OT: I’m not sure when it happened, but McCain is leading at Intrade.
jimmy the notable on September 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM
OK, since nobody else has done it, and it’s obligatory whenever this issue comes up:
He’s just biden time.
Loxodonta on September 10, 2008 at 4:17 PM
McCain is trying to ‘repackage’ himself as a conservative? Really?
ThackerAgency claimed that Palin is the only conservative running. What’s her score? McCain’s lifetime score is 82.16 And if the missed votes are counted, what does that make him then? 80.57? 79.29? Fact is that this is the same incorrect line that some people know, and just won’t let it go.
How about next time you see someone claiming that McCain is not at all a conservative, or not a republican to ‘drop it’ because that would be a breath of fresh air coming from you.
wise_man on September 10, 2008 at 4:17 PM
McCain’s not at all a conservative.
Darksean on September 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM
I very much doubt that Biden will be dropped. It will be seen as an act of sheer desperation . . . especially if he’s replaced with Hillary.
The reason why Obama didn’t name Hillary in the first place was because he did not want his ass
dministrationto be in the shadow ofBillMichelle O’s man-hand.eaglescout1998 on September 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM
fixed it for ya
max1 on September 10, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Seven years ago tomorrow, this country had its head on straight for a short time. Could it possibly be repeating that event and seeing things clearly?
Hening on September 10, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Yes, and polling trends lead to momentum which leads to winning states which leads to 270+ electoral votes.
I noticed on Rasmussen that PA Very Unfavorable to Obama was 26%. I’m hoping McCain/Palin can take PA.
Mr_Magoo on September 10, 2008 at 4:19 PM
jimmy the notable on September 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM
Possibly. But do people taking those polls really nuance it that much? “Change” simply translates to policies.
And in what might so some projection on my part: I personally would vote for two bums off the street over Hussein and… uh, … whoever that was, if they’s let me keep my guns and kill more people I don’t like.
Tommygun on September 10, 2008 at 4:19 PM
No, you are. Which is silly and divisive. As I pointed out. You’re welcome.
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
I am an example of a registered Independent won over by the Palin choice. I was on the fence, most likely voting for Barr (I voted Badnarik in ‘04). I didn’t care for McCain on certain issues like amnesty but Barr is wrong on some as well.
I was hoping McCain would pick Sanford as VP. He picked Palin, close enough. Either pick would have (IMHO) shown that the GOP was heading in the right direction again.
LastRick on September 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
It is not stupid so much as it is a sign of desperation. These folks have been part of the party machine and probably looked to get called up to the majors in an Obama administration. If Barry comes up short, they’re stuck in the minors for at least another 4 years, maybe forever.
So I think there is some real frustration out there among the political machine, Hollywierd and the media.
The fact that a seemingly political dilettante from the backwoods who just happens to represent many of the most “regressive, loathsome, infererior qualities” of America (and she is taking it all away…..)must be a very bitter pill to swallow.
Unless Barry can impose some discipline on the troops this thing could continue to spiral out of control, all to the detriment of Obama.
moxie_neanderthal on September 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
I mean, the surveyed people, not the people running the things.
Tommygun on September 10, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Thacker doesn’t care who wins, so long as they are willing to surrender to Putin.
MarkTheGreat on September 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM
A visual of Team Obambi’s support melting away:
Oh noes!
notta_dhimmi on September 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Well, since most people were at work, they won’t even know it was up. Most of the undecideds are IMO waiting for the debates and totally ignore the back and forth that turn us blog-addicts on. They consider it garbage on both sides.
But keep your hopes up, buddy!
Mr_Magoo on September 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Ah come on Illini_, please stop raining on our parade…!
It’s been a long hot summer of standing last in line and getting sloppy seconds.
This is our time.
This is our place.
This is destiny.
USA!
USA!
USA!
J_Gocht on September 10, 2008 at 4:24 PM
I have been tracking and commenting on it for the last 95 minutes…..something big is on the horizon or people are just profit jacking.
sven10077 on September 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM
To answer the Exit Question:
Yes, AllahPagan, many previously doubting ‘independents’ are starting to Think–after a dose of Palin and McCain at the Convention, and after taking a much closer look at OBH
“the more you see & hear Barry, the less you like him”.
No, McCain never was Reagan and never will be, but Palin is close enough–and neither Republican is Obama with the hordes of arrogant elitist incompetent Leftards he will bring with him
Janos Hunyadi on September 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM
They still have the lead. Their lead is continuing to grow. Obama is in quicksand and sinking deeper as he fecklessly struggles to escape. It’s over, JG. Bambi is toast. Resistance is futile.
ManlyRash on September 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Credit for the On noes! visual goes to S. Weasel.
notta_dhimmi on September 10, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Hey “Spirit of 1776″, go to the link I provided and quote me the author’s name. It’s at the top of the page. Right after ‘posted at 10:36 am on May 14, 2008 by’ and right before ‘ Send to a Friend | printer-friendly ‘
Then, place the author’s name from the page that I quoted into the sentence:
It’s silly to repackage him as a “conservative”, __ ________, when he’s already accepted as a “maverick”
Because your claim is that I am trying to repackage McCain as a conservative. And All I did was copy and paste from that link.
THANKS!
wise_man on September 10, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Your funny. From now on I shall refer to you as “Mark the Great – Merciful to All and Subject to None!” (That’s a compliment, BTW)
Mr_Magoo on September 10, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Credit for the Oh noes! visual goes to S. Weasel.
/sans typo
notta_dhimmi on September 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM
Remember, there are still 8 weeks. A lot WILL happen. These numbers will switch some. Whatever the trend is here, it will change some. So don’t read too much into it yet.
I will say that if McCain-Palin can take a solid, even if small, lead all-around (popular, electoral, approval), they should, I believe, be able to hold it.
Tommygun on September 10, 2008 at 4:27 PM
That’s because Chicago runs ALL of Illinois- always has.
FiveWays on September 10, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Lol! Obsess much? Too funny.
TA posted a comment, you responded to that comment that labeled Palin as the one conservative, not something from months ago. So again, I say, LET IT GO. Your argument might work with people that don’t follow politics, but unfortunately for you, you aren’t going to find them on Hotair.
Spirit of 1776 on September 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Those carefully coordinated Obama rallies are a real b!tch, huh?
Heh. If you are Obama, the time is over, the place is last and the destiny is oblivion.
Sure beats O-BAH-MA! O-BAH-MA! O-BAH-MA!
Hang in there, JG.
ManlyRash on September 10, 2008 at 4:30 PM
In the Fox poll, there was a surge among independents for McCain, from 30-31 on 8/19-20 to 46-31 now.
But McCain also improved among the Republican base, from 82-8 to 88-5, a net increase of 9 points among the 34% of the sample who consider themselves Republicans. In the previous poll, 18% of Republicans still had doubts about McCain, who had not yet chosen his VP nominee, and the choice of Sarah Palin sealed the deal. Among Democrats, Obama remained about steady, from 78-8 to 79-9–apparently Hillary supporters haven’t made their move yet.
Since the convention, McCain picked up 16% of Independents, who were 21% of this sample, or a net 3.4% of the overall sample. He also picked up a net 9% of Republicans, who make up 34% of this sample, or a net 3.1% of the overall sample. Gaining Independent voters and shoring up the GOP base are about equally important between these two polls.
Steve Z on September 10, 2008 at 4:31 PM
The ad was not a ‘fabrication’, you old fool. It was ditched because CBS had the rights to the Couric clip and wouldn’t give them up. It wasn’t a ’smear’, either
As a senile clown whose views are barely literate and mostly anti-conservative talking points, you should post at Huffington, not here. Here, you just annoy people
Janos Hunyadi on September 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Thanks for not taking us down Tommy_…!
USA!
USA!
USA!
J_Gocht on September 10, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Since the Democrat usually loses about 10 points between September and November, the fact that McCain is slightly ahead at this point suggests a possible landslide in November. I’ve been wondering if this would produce coattails that would reverse the expected Republican disaster in the Congressional races. Your statistic gives me some hope that this might occur.
All I can say is, McCain had better be serious about reform, or he’ll wind up damaging the Republican brand even more. This election is turning into an opportunity too astonishing to waste.
philwynk on September 10, 2008 at 4:34 PM
J, still waiting on that Iraq link. Did you ever find it?
Chuck Schick on September 10, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Among Independents it’s 38/36 Reps. At this point, all the rest is chaff.
jaime on September 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM
yes that McCain crowd was huge
William Amos on September 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM
That’s what I’ve been wondering. Since you didn’t go to the link, I guess I’ll have to explain it to you in simple words that you can hopefully understand.
When people say that McCain is not a conservative, they are lying. I cite an example where Ed Morrissey posted a news story that listed McCain’s lifetime conservative rating as 80%. Not 20%. Not 3%. 80%. He also said “For those who see no difference between McCain and the two Democrats, this serves as a reminder that while McCain drifts to the middle on some issues, a large chasm exists between the nominees that will face off in November.”
And some people, like you, obsess that McCain’s record for voting on the issues shouldn’t be accepted as fact. If you or anyone else wants to say that he’s not a conservative, then you have no problem with that.
What you do have a problem with, is anyone who brings facts into this discussion of opinion. Opinion based not on fact but emotion is without merit. You seem to be obsessed with attempting to shut people up and tell them to ‘drop it’ and not reply to people making erronious statements.
It’s your problem, not mine.
Have a simply WONDERFUL day!
wise_man on September 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM
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