Obama: I could totally take Palin in a game of hoops
posted at 12:45 pm on September 7, 2008 by Allahpundit
A few highlights from an interview with Stephanopoulos that was chock full of them, including the revelation that The One once thought of joining the military but apparently neglected to mention that fact in either of his two memoirs. How he presumes to know that Palin will be even Bushier than McCain when the chief talking point from his side right now is that we’re dangerously unaware of her policy views, I don’t know; presumably it’s just his way of calling her a “Christianist,” which is a highly nuanced position indeed.
The one on one showdown comes at the end. Before that, you’ll find a brief exchange about whether commanding the Alaska National Guard is a credential worth mentioning. Exit quotation from Biden: “You realize you could’ve made history if you’d found a cardboard cut-out of Gov. Palin, that’s the closest she would’ve been to taking tough questions from the national media since she was selected.”
Blowback
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Hillary once thought of joining the military too. That’s what all lawyers do the minute they graduate from law school.
whitetop on September 7, 2008 at 12:48 PM
If only they’d still been in combat in Vietnam! Then I would’ve TOTALLY joined.
/BO
Purple Fury on September 7, 2008 at 12:48 PM
“If she accepts an invitation to you show..”
Like Obama didn’t avoid FOX News for almost a year and boycott the debate on FOX.
Ordinary1 on September 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM
How about bowling?
aunursa on September 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Also it was posted on LGF that it was impossible for barry to have signed up for selective service as it happened after he graduated in 1979. So he basically lied
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Perhaps, I think she could take him a figurative game of pocket pool, though.
She’s got bigger ones, again, figuratively.
NoDonkey on September 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Doubtful. He can’t take a charge.
SMB102589 on September 7, 2008 at 12:51 PM
I know Obama has mystical powers beyond those of mere mortals, but how did he register for the draft before selective service was reinstated?
JammieWearingFool on September 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM
What does Biden’s quote even mean? I’ve been reading about the race for some time, and while most quotes from the Democrats leave me rolling my eyes, Biden often leaves me scratching my head.
Andrew D on September 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Love how Stephanopolous asks Obama all those hard-hitting questions about John McCain. The hardest question he asked him was if he’d play basketball with Palin and he couldn’t even give a straight one.
CanadianGuy on September 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM
Thanks for that tip. It seems he doesn’t even know his own life history. This comes across just as a boldfaced lie. But I assume he must’ve registered when it was reinstated, so maybe he just forgot.
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 12:55 PM
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM
I’m confused (alert the media) isn’t Selective Service the thing that all men have to sign up with then they turn 18? Try not to hurt me to bad if I am wrong.
Cindy Munford on September 7, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Joe Biden’s a scared little rat right now, terrified that the media are going to come after his children and his mostly-made-up life story next.
rockmom on September 7, 2008 at 12:55 PM
That’s what I look for in a leader, someone who can beat up a girl.
fluffy on September 7, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Like I said in the headlines above. To make the game fair they should both play with broken ankles.
Ordinary1 on September 7, 2008 at 12:56 PM
LOL…. yeah, America was not involved in ANYTHING in 1979…. Cause ya know, we had NO problems with Iran that years… or… the Soviet Union.
Romeo13 on September 7, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Yeah, that was my reaction too. I’m trying to square this up with the “big-brained Democrats” BS alluded to in one of the Boston Herald’s anti-Palin screeds linked to in the Howie Carr article in the headlines.
His point seems to be: Palin hasn’t yet done any big media interviews. The rest of it is just Biden-of-the-mouth.
Purple Fury on September 7, 2008 at 12:57 PM
With all the hurricanes going on, it isn’t going to be hard to show what kind of executive experience a Gov. gets when commanding the Natl Guard.
If this point isn’t emphasized, someone is not doing their job.
USMC0311SGT on September 7, 2008 at 12:57 PM
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Oops, while I was asking someone else was answering. Husband a vet and sons registered with the “reinstate” Selective Service. Sorry!
Cindy Munford on September 7, 2008 at 12:57 PM
I turned 18 in 1980 and remember selective service first starting. Yes it kicks in when your 18. I think Barry is a little older than me.
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 12:57 PM
RIOT!
You mean like your supporters in Denver and St. Paul?
If McCain stays ahead of Barry, you will see real threats of riots.
RobCon on September 7, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Unmitigated gall.
SouthernGent on September 7, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Anyone want to venture a guess as to how long Obama would have lasted as a community organizer if he’d been doing it in Palin’s Wasilla?
Connie on September 7, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Somehow he did.
CanadianGuy on September 7, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Palin gives him one elbow and he folds like a cheap suit on the court.
Oh, and someone needs to point out that they don’t let you vote “present” in the military either.
Sugar Land on September 7, 2008 at 12:59 PM
Considering Jimmy Carter was commander in Cheif and a bunch of US servicemen died in his aborted rescue attempt in 1979 yeah was no threat to America then.
But then if I was Obama I would argue that with Jimmy Carter as Commander in Cheif I wouldnt want to serve under a Democratic Commander in Cheif who was clueless on the military.
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Frankly, I’d take Sarah Palin and 2 points in a game of HORSE between her and Barack HUSSEIN Obama (PBUH)!
I think she’d kick his Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Marxist-Muslim ass…..frankly….
Dale in Atlanta on September 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Really? Whose?
snickelfritz on September 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM
I want to know more about Russia-Alaska and missile defense. I actually think this too can be problematic for the Dems, maybe it will come up in the debate. I do think it is a mistake to quickly dismiss it however. Experience sometimes can be following procedures; just because she didn’t make command exec decisions doesn’t mean she’s unfamiliar.
Interview is amusing. Obama is in trouble.
Spirit of 1776 on September 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Well I think he’s saying that she basically hasn’t spoken to the press since getting nominated. Which is pretty much true.
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM
Obama would have developed a myterious ‘muscle cramp’ right before the contest.
It would be fun to see a one-on-one between Michelle O vs. Gov. Palin.
Sir Napsalot on September 7, 2008 at 1:01 PM
Yea Obama you could beat her in a game of hoops but how about a game of shoot the gun kill the bear before it bites you ?
thmcbb on September 7, 2008 at 1:01 PM
I think he may over estimate the importance of Basket ball.
I do realize that in the streets of Chicago, ones basket ball ability is a measure of self worth but in the rest of the country we put more emphasis on practical things like work and real productive achievement.
TheSitRep on September 7, 2008 at 1:02 PM
And the next ‘get Palin’ trial balloon is up.
Seems to me this will backfire if she nails her first media interview.
Slublog on September 7, 2008 at 1:02 PM
By the way, I’m not implying he didn’t register for the draft, since it was required as of 1980. Just wasn’t possible for him to do so in 1979 as he claims.
Another little something for his ever-growing gaffe pile.
It reminds me of Hillary’s laughable claim she wanted to join the Marines.
JammieWearingFool on September 7, 2008 at 1:02 PM
I swear, PJ Media has squashed more Obama rumors than the NY Times. It actually makes me proud that our conservative media has such integrity.
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Once “thought” of joining the military? How much pot and coke did it take for that thought to bubble up in his “mind”?
TheCulturalist on September 7, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Considering how the press has run every rumor about sarah without vetting the rumors you have to wonder why ?
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:03 PM
LOL… yeah, in 1981 I remember getting a Letter from the Selective Service people, saying I had not registerd…
It was sent to me at my Address on the US Navy ship I was stationed on… really cracked me up.
Romeo13 on September 7, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Exactly.
Kind of silly argument too, considering the convention just finished.
Spirit of 1776 on September 7, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Yeah…Obama could take her in basketball.
Guess that’s the qualification now, because Obama is 2nd rate to Palin everywhere else
Trump on September 7, 2008 at 1:04 PM
I can imagine Sarah Palin’s reply:
I can understand why Barack Obama wants to talk about playing basketball, rather than his actual record. I would as well, if I had been so completely wrong on the surge, Georgia, Rezko, Ayers, Wright, Pfleger….
aikidoka on September 7, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Alaska is the first line of defense in our missile interceptor system. The 49th Missile Defense Battalion of the Alaska National Guard is the unit that protects the entire nation from ballistic missile attacks. It’s on permanent active duty, unlike other Guard units.
As governor of Alaska, Palin is briefed on highly classified military issues, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Her exposure to classified material may rival even Biden’s.
She’s also the commander in chief of the Alaska State Defense Force (ASDF), a federally recognized militia incorporated into Homeland Security’s counterterrorism plans.
Palin is privy to military and intelligence secrets that are vital to the entire country’s defense. Given Alaska’s proximity to Russia, she may have security clearances we don’t even know about.
According to the Washington Post, she first met with McCain in February, but nobody ever found out. This is a woman used to keeping secrets.
As C-in-C of the Alaska National Guard, she traveled to Kuwait to check on Alaska’s troops deployed in the war zone shortly after her election and involved herself in planning for their well-being.
Governor Palin, at the request of Governor Jindal, sent the Alaska Air National Guard’s 176th Wing with a C-17, and two Pavehawk search and rescue helicopters, with crews and support, to Louisiana. No waiting for permission, nor saying “it’s above my pay grade,” no “orders” from the Pentagon or FEMA or the White House.
Oh, and she also negotiated with Canada for the construction of the pipeline that Joe Biden voted against 30 years ago.
On all these issues, she has way more experience than either Biden or Obama.
ManlyRash on September 7, 2008 at 1:04 PM
The absurd notion Palin is afraid to do interviews wasn’t much of a concern with the media back in 1999 when Hillary was on her “listening tour” of New York. She didn’t take any questions herself.
JammieWearingFool on September 7, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Was this something from the SNL old re-run skits or something? Their responses this weekend are fodder for about 1,000 GOP ads! He now is trying to do damage control over “above my paygrade”. He was too flip. Is he being too flippant over being in command of the Alaskan National Guard and the location of Alaska to Russia? Just wondering because he seemed lost over the Russian/Georgian issue when he wanted the UN to do something when Russia had veto power.
Oh, and I think the Barracuda went to Iraq and Germany to visit our troops before you did MANCHILD. and she went not on a dare or urge from John McCain! Mendacity rules once again!
freeus on September 7, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Oh, if I were her, I wouldn’t talk to them either, and Biden knows that the media has treated her like shit, and it was a cheap shot. But at least he wasn’t lying, right?
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:05 PM
What day was barry born ? I had to do selective service right after my birthday in may. And I think I am younger than barry.
It seems like he took his time to sign up
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:05 PM
Senators Obama and Biden are the two biggest horse’s patoots in the world. And yet they can be the President and Vice President.
Cindy Munford on September 7, 2008 at 1:05 PM
What Biden LIE ? That would be like plagarism..
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM
That’s the talking point today. Heard it at least 3 times on different Sunday morning shows.
Left wingers are drooling at the hope they can get at her and change The One’s momentum crash.
She will punk them and McCain/Palin will pick up 3 more points in the polls.
So there.
TheCulturalist on September 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Senators Obama and Biden are the two biggest horse’s patoots in the world. And yet they
canwill never be the President and Vice President.Fixed it.
ManlyRash on September 7, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Sure…Obama “might” take her in a game of hoops…but where is his state basketball championship?
That Barry might have joined the military is a pandering piece of crap remark…it has not appeared in ANY source. Oh, he might have imagined doing so…watching TV…an old movie, maybe.
Calls Palin a “Christianist?” That’s intentional.
And important to understanding Obama.
A “christianist” is viewed by Obama as many view an “islamist.” Radical. Dangerous.
Barry’s moral equivalency is shown. Jesus was a community organizer, too…anyone not remember that?
That Black LIberation Theology…this is something a lot more people have got to look at. And look at again, and deeply. And fast.
Wright’s Trinity Church is NO Christian church. Let’s get that straight right up front.
James Cone thought this one up back in the late 60′s. Rev. Wright is just one of its loudest voices recently. Do the homework before this charlatan bamboozles us into four years of Lord knows what?
His “slight” against Palin and the Guard is contemptable.
All of this can be used…so let’s use it.
Parse every word…every nuance…then do the research. the homework. He’s a player. We are being played.
coldwarrior on September 7, 2008 at 1:07 PM
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:05 PM
I don’t think they can do that. I noticed on a schedule posted here yesterday that the campaign seems to be allowing a decent amount of time for the local press on their stops. I am hoping that she is getting her feet wet there.
Cindy Munford on September 7, 2008 at 1:08 PM
If all of that comes out in her first interview with the jerk media, she will slam dunk it again. Quite a feat for a women 5’5″!
She has already figured out how their full court press.
Ordinary1 on September 7, 2008 at 1:08 PM
ManlyRash on September 7, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Thank you, from your mouth to God’s ear.
Cindy Munford on September 7, 2008 at 1:09 PM
I’m pretty sure the Arctic Fox will surprise all of them…again.
ManlyRash on September 7, 2008 at 1:09 PM
How the break their full court press.
Ordinary1 on September 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM
I hate to go a bit off topic but breaking news!
SlimyBill on September 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh yeah uh uh uh I’d play her uh uh uh uh uh…
fossten on September 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM
I liked the part where he was defensive about “my Muslim faith.” Steponallofus had to correct him, “Christian faith.” (I heard this second hand, didn’t hear it myself.)
O-Dub on September 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM
No, they can’t get away with it for very long at all, and she’ll give her share of interviews before the election and will squash the notion that she is dumb and unprepared off of her feet. She has incredible poise and I have no doubt she’ll do great. I think its funny that she has waited this long, because I’m sure she’s had requests galore. Obviously its her handlers saying no, too, but after the way they treated her, there’s no way she should be at their beck and call. All the polls prove that nobody trusts a word out of the media’s mouths anyway, and its pretty clear that their smear campaign is helping her.
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:12 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
I filled out my slective service within one month of my 18th birthday
Obama filled in his selective service just after one month of his 19th birthday
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:13 PM
Drudge has a picture of Obama (you may have to scroll down to see it).
Here is my caption for the picture: “I don’t know what I am talking about. Ignore the stuff coming out of my mouth.”
Take a look at it. It fits.
__________
RJGatorEsq. on September 7, 2008 at 1:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGMQ5DpVVTM&eurl=http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31177_Obama-_My_Muslim_Faith
Tazz 55 on September 7, 2008 at 1:14 PM
BTW I seem to recall that you had only one month to register after your birthday. But that is a long time ago my memory is bad.
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:14 PM
Guaranteed I’d tea-bag that chain-smoking pusscake if he stepped on the court with me.
Captain Hate on September 7, 2008 at 1:15 PM
God, he’s freakin kissing Obama’s ass.
lodge on September 7, 2008 at 1:15 PM
Sheesh, I thought ol’ Stephy was going to kiss him on the lips…
Wyznowski on September 7, 2008 at 1:15 PM
To be fair to Obama, he was already well past 18 when SS was reinstated anyway, so there was no option of registering when he turned 18. He waited a little over a month after it was reinstated to register (July 31 to September 4). So what does that prove? That he wasn’t gung-ho about joining the military and serving his country? Well we already know that, via the fact that he never served at all.
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Purely amaizing! The Donkeys haven’t learned a thing since the Friday Palin’s announcement.
What is the point of setting up real low expectation for your opponent, like they have been trying?
All Gov. Palin has to do right now is to string a couple coherent sentences together, and she could have easily beat the expectation.
Unless Sen. Biden all of a sudden developed this towering intellect that will blow everybody else away, what is the point of the above statement? Couldn’t his handlers bundle him up to American Virgin Islands or something?
Sir Napsalot on September 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Did you see the Gallup Tracking Numbers!?!?!?!?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110050/Gallup-Daily-McCain-Moves-Ahead-48-45.aspx
POW-WOW up by 3 !!!!!
D0WNT0WN on September 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM
TheCulturalist on September 7, 2008 at 1:06 PM –
Press? Sarah don’ need no stinkin’ press.
The Dems are trying retake the momentum. For the past few weeks, the McCain camp has slowly started setting the timing and tempo and message, always a few steps ahead of Obama/Biden…and they cannot figure out why? And as they try to figure out why, they lose momentum, waste time, expend limited resources and their credibility crashes as they try to fix the rails under a moving train.
Along the way they expose more and more of the press for what the press really is — a shill for Obama.
So, why would Palin want to pander to the press? She don’ need no stinkin’ press.
(Thank you, John Boyd for the loop and thank you Steve Schmidt for putting it to use and well.)
coldwarrior on September 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM
I like it when The One keeps mentioning Palin. Dude, you’re running against McCain!
Mojave Mark on September 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM
Meh, I get what he was saying. I wouldn’t even say its a gaffe. What he means by “my Muslim faith” is the line of attack that he might be a Muslim. Stephonopoulis made it worse by correcting him when he didn’t even need correcting, in my opinion. Maybe I’m reading it wrong.
jimmy the notable on September 7, 2008 at 1:19 PM
Unhhh… I knew that Alaska was next to Russia. I just didn’t know that it was one of the 57 US States.”
Is it just me, or did Stephanopoulos essentially just set up Dem talking points for Obama to answer?
I mean the couple of fast pitch softballs he threw, Obama outright dodged while George laughed along with him and ignored the fact that he completely dodged the questions.
Am I the only person on earth that is FURIOUS that the media absolutely REFUSES to ask that man a hard question about policy, background, political relationship, … anything?
But sure, we can have 20 questions that try to get him to trash Palin.
I am going to start beating reporter with a pipe.
Damiano on September 7, 2008 at 1:19 PM
When did barry start into college ? I had applied and that is why I got my SelServ notice
William Amos on September 7, 2008 at 1:20 PM
Unfortunately for BO, he’s not in a basketball game against Palin. Or maybe that is fortunately he is not in a game agains Palin. Either way he is screwed.
bloggless on September 7, 2008 at 1:20 PM
And when McCain wins, we will see real riots.
Kevin71 on September 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM
It’s going to be fun when she kicks his pompous a$$ all over the place in the debates.
Blake on September 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM
She did make a decision concerning the Alask National Guard according to the Commanding General of the ANG (interview with Greta from Fox), Palin ordered the ANG to assist hurricane prep and relief efforts when requested for by Governor Jindal.
Time to move onto the next lie “Duh 1″.
Hog Wild on September 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Well BHO may believe it when the media stops trying to find dirt on Sarah here in Anchorage.
I can’t tell you how many “media” guys are wandering the streets of Anchorage now, looking for crap. UGH!
upinak on September 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM
McCain got an point bump from the convention giving him his biggest lead on Gallup since the campaign between the two started.
Typhonsentra on September 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Eleven point. My keyboard’s busted….
Typhonsentra on September 7, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Now we know why it was so damn important for Urkel to get in a little hoops practice while he was in Germany. Visiting injured troops does nothing for the old jump shot.
BuzzCrutcher on September 7, 2008 at 1:22 PM
I went to grad school in the 80s. If you applied for federal financial aid, the men had to apply to the SS and the women had to swear they were female and exempt. I believe the requirement is the same today.
Blake on September 7, 2008 at 1:24 PM
Andrew D on September 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM
I think it’s pretty clear that he’s saying that the only way you’ll get Palin on a national show is by having a cardboard cutout of her… what’s to understand there?
DaveS on September 7, 2008 at 1:25 PM
Sort of off topic:
I thought the 2004 election was interesting…but 2008…?
Oh my. I hope all this buzz in the Conservative ranks turns into a massive vote. Massive. Dukakis(sp) big.
Time to watch for Democrat voter fraud–the ONLY fraud found in the 2000 and 2004 elections was Democrat favored.
A couple of wippies (wannabe-hippies) were hanging outside a local small grocery store in my home town–it’s across from the university and near my house.
As I walked in, I saw they had clipboards. They asked if I was registered to vote (dude) and I replied, “Yes, for McCain.”
They seemed peeved.
Dude.
Montana on September 7, 2008 at 1:26 PM
I went to grad school in the 80s. If you applied for federal financial aid, the men had to
apply toregister with the SS and the women had to swear they were female and exempt. The requirement is the same today.Blake on September 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM
As Leno said, Obama got beat up by a girl!!! And is very mad about it ;)
BTW, I think that Obama should continue to go after Palin!! Hey, I’m all for the next two months being about her… Of course, I’m a Republican and don’t want Obama elected. :)
Illinidiva on September 7, 2008 at 1:29 PM
Touché, Allahpundit!
Obama’s convoluted forked-tongue Newspeak:
=configuring to NOT join.
“Christianist” differentiated from one born a Muslim choosing PC to convert to Black Liberation Marxism as if more “Christian”–NADA nuance.
As per Biden, the DNC VP cardboard cut-out has no face. And his emperor has no clothes. Take good aim at the DNC Carnival.
maverick muse on September 7, 2008 at 1:31 PM
Barry chose to go $hit$tir in chicago, last time I checked that ain’t the military.
sven10077 on September 7, 2008 at 1:35 PM
New Barack O’bama meme: I *almost* stayed at a Holiday Inn.
sven10077 on September 7, 2008 at 1:36 PM
Guys, as the Bob Owens cited above, please LEAVE BARACK OBAMA’S SELECTIVE SERVICE RECORD ALONE!
Heh.
No, seriously, I had a fairly substantial email exchange with the Selective Service, and Obama didn’t do anything illegal or disqualifying. Find something else to be him up for.
Bob Owens on September 7, 2008 at 1:43 PM
Heh. I got mine in early ’82 while stationed at Rhein Main in Frankfurt. They had to address it to my APO. Someone put these people in charge of health care, quick!
And, in Barry’s defense, every young man thinks about joining the military. Only exceptions are those not capable of cognitive process. I’d support that assertion, but I think it is self-proving. We all also think about suicide. See, you just did when I said that.
Immolate on September 7, 2008 at 1:46 PM
psh.
yawn……………
Drunk Report on September 7, 2008 at 1:47 PM
get the muslim video on here please. it’s hilarous
lodge on September 7, 2008 at 1:49 PM
The only wiggle room on the Obama claim he thought about joining the service is that his statements now proclaim he thought about joining the service right out of high school, but to use the selective service law to support that is very misleading.
He graduates from high school in May/June 1979. He is 18 years old at this point. He goes to Occidental College on full scholarship in Aug/Sep 1979. By Sep 4, 1980, he’s been in college for whole year already.
It’s as if Barack Obama already had lawerly ways before he was even a lawyer. The way he uses law and circumstance to support his claims is one wild and crazy ride.
lollercoaster goes vroom.
gabriel sutherland on September 7, 2008 at 1:51 PM
Obama had previously reduced the standard vs Palin from “She’s only a pathetic mayor and I’ve managed my magnificent campaign” to “I’ve managed my campaign a long time, and she had only campaigned less than a week. I win.”
Now this is why he should be President instead of her?
econavenger on September 7, 2008 at 1:52 PM
He was for joining the military before his handlers decided against it.
econavenger on September 7, 2008 at 1:54 PM
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