Andrew Sullivan, sadly suffering from AIDS-related dementia, somehow finds this video of Sarah Palin speaking to the church of her youth, extremely disturbing. I wonder if the average reader would hear the references she makes and understand them? Mast…

I Thank God for the gift of tongues, and it is truly a gift, and not something I do on my own.

right4life on September 6, 2008 at 6:26 PM

Unless you have an interpretor translating what you’re saying, and unless you’re speaking in a human language, you are a barbarian (1 Corinthians 14:11). Quite possibly being led by a demonic spirit.

“So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.” I Corinthians 14:9

If you’re mumbling or muttering unintelligible gibberish you DON’T have a gift from God, you have a GIFT FROM SATAN!!

Why don’t you try reading what the Bible ACTUALLY says, instead of trying to write your own.

right4life on September 7, 2008 at 9:15 AM

Don’t play childish games with me.

This is such BS.

right4life on September 7, 2008 at 9:14 AM

Not interested in the swearing, thanks (Colossians 3:8).

You cannot point to a verse that states tongues are human languages.

Yes, I can. But, really, you’re starting to scare me now…lol… you better think real hard about what you’re saying, okay. Tongues means languages. One of the definitions of tongues is:

noun: a human written or spoken language used by a community; opposed to e.g. a computer language

Not only that, but the word “tongue” only has two meanings in the Bible:

1. THE TONGUE, a member of the body, the organ of speech;
2. A TONGUE, i.e. the LANGUAGE used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations.

Here are some examples.

“And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and COOL MY TONGUE; for I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:24

And the second meaning:

“And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again BEFORE MANY PEOPLES, AND NATIONS, AND TONGUES, and kings.” Revelation 10:11

Other examples:

“TONGUE of the wise…” Proverbs 15:2

“…a lying TONGUE” Proverbs 12:19

“…I will gather all nations and TONGUES” Isaiah 66:18

There are no other meanings. The word ALWAYS means either:

1. The literal tongue in the body, the organ of speech; or
2. A specific language spoken by a particular group of people.

Now read what happened on the day of Pentecost. Acts chapter 2 makes it clear that the apostles were speaking in human languages (Acts 2:6-11).

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (languages), as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded (confused), because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues (languages) the wonderful works of God.” Acts 2:6-11

SUMMARY: These verses show tongues are human languages. Furthermore, the word “tongue” only has two meanings in the Bible: a member of the body, AND specific languages spoken by a particular group of people. I hope that helps.

(Biblical tongues are human languages, and are always spoken to humans who understand and TRANSLATE them for others to understand)

this is such BS. you cannot point to a verse that states tongues are human languages. tongues and the interpreation are given from God, the interpretation is not a translation of what is spoken, its a revelation from God.

really, you’re making God’s Word say something it does not. Do you yourself speak in tongues?? That would explain alot. It’s either that, or somebody taught you incorrectly because you’re clearly confused on this issue.

you may want to check the mirror. and you obviously don’t read what I posted very closely, because I said I do speak in tongues.

. The gift of languages was spectacular, obviously supernatural, but it was useful only if someone hearing it could actually understand it and interpret (that is, translate) it for others

again you mix up public and private tongues. Paul clearly states that:

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God.

whats so hard about this? why are you SO hung up about this?

When one really has the Spirit’s “gift of tongues” and uses it properly, then some such result should follow. Otherwise, it is useless, or even dangerous

to you the only result is some interpretation, and thats not what tongues are ALL about. do you always see some result from your prayer? probably not, is it useless? probably not.

That’s incorrect, Rigth4life. You misunderstand the meaning of “unknown tongue” again. “Unknown tongue

actually its correct. sorry. you really have to twist it.

he is saying “Why should I pray in another language?”

no he’s not, clearly he says:

“For if I pray in an unknown tongue (ie, a foreign language), my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.” 1 Corinthians 14:14-15

and you add (foreign language) to the text, my how presumptuous and arrogant of you to add to the bible. check out what revelation says to those who add to the bible. clearly you impose your interpretation upon scripture.

obviously Paul prays with understanding and in the spirit, in tongues. and all your twisting and ‘interpretation’ can’t change the plain and simple meaning of what he says.

Ecstatic babbling is NOT a sign of the Holy Spirit. And again, according to Paul, speaking in tongues should not be done in the church unless either he or another translator is there to explain what was said:

you denigrate the work of the Holy Spirit. you don’t undestand what you speak, and you have to twist scripture to make your points, which I have already refuted, but you don’t even pay me the courtesy of reading what I wrote, you just keep on like a clanging cymbal.

“I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.” 1 Corinthians 14:18-19

So obviously there are different types of tongues, one meant for men, with an interpretation, and one meant just for God,

right4life on September 6, 2008 at 6:36 PM

That’s not what the apostle Paul is saying. Paul was well educated and it’s reported he could speak in Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, and possibly other languages as well. If in addition, he had the supernatural gift of tongues, as this verse seems to imply, he is saying that he would far rather speak in church words (a common language) that all could understand instead of a foreign language.

“Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.” 1 Corinthians 14:19

“If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” 1 Corinthians 14:28

Paul insists that only one man speak in a foreign language at a time, with never more than three doing this at one meeting, and then only if there is someone present who can translate each message. One can only use the gift of tongues if he knew in advance an interpreter would be there, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” 1 Corinthians 14:33

Ecstatic babbling is NOT a sign of the Holy Spirit.

Speaking in tongues happened/happens, and when there is interpretation it truly is the Glory of God.

ss396 on September 6, 2008 at 11:39 PM

That’s right. Look, I haven’t seen anybody speak in tongues or seen anybody on TV do it either (Biblical tongues are human languages, and are always spoken to humans who understand and TRANSLATE them for others to understand) but, I wouldn’t forbid the use of this gift in case some circumstances should develop comparable to that at Pentecost. I mean, maybe the gift of tongues is finished (some believe that) and Pentecost was a one time event. Could be. One thing I can say for sure, and that is ecstatic babbling is not a sign of the Holy Spirit.

You know you’re very close to saying the independent fundamnetal baptist church is THE church, just as the cultists do.

right4life on September 6, 2008 at 6:36 PM

I’ve NEVER said that! If you’re going to get into a discussion with me Right4life, quote me right! Please don’t put words in my mouth. I’m not saying everybody oughta become an Independent, Tempermental, Fundamental, Right-Wing, Radical, Chicken Eatin’, Baptist, like me. However, if you keep studying you’ll get there okay … lol … Now, what you said about speaking in tongues, uh, … really, you’re making God’s Word say something it does not. Do you yourself speak in tongues?? That would explain alot. It’s either that, or somebody taught you incorrectly because you’re clearly confused on this issue. For instance, your understanding of “unknown tongue” and “edify”. You’re way off about what these mean. And if you don’t understand what they mean it’ll mess you up. Let’s start by explaining what they mean:

“He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” 1 Corinthians 14:4

Unknown tongue. The word “unknown” is to emphasize that the language being used was one that was not known to the rest of the congregation, and so such an inspired message would be of no value to them. The gift of languages was spectacular, obviously supernatural, but it was useful only if someone hearing it could actually understand it and interpret (that is, translate) it for others, so that they could profit. It was given by the Holy Spirit as a sign of His presence and also to convey a profitable message to at least some of the audience.

Edify. The one possessing the gift of tongues could more easily become puffed up and be tempted to use his ability just to draw attention to himself — that is, to “edify” (or build up) himself. In fact, it is probable that he might even open himself to demonic inspiration, for it is unlikely that the Holy Spirit would inspire a message that would be mere gibberish to it’s hearers. Picture all those frenzied people jumping around babbling to themselves in the Charismatic movement. Does anybody understand a single word they’re saying?! No! It is unintelligible talking. Now here’s the definitive passage on this gift, when it was given at the Day of Pentecost, the result was that “the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold … we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:6-7,11). When one really has the Spirit’s “gift of tongues” and uses it properly, then some such result should follow. Otherwise, it is useless, or even dangerous.

“For if I pray in an unknown tongue (ie, a foreign language), my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.” 1 Corinthians 14:14-15

Paul clearly says he prays with understanding, and in tongues, though he knows not what he is praying. The only time scripture clearly says a tongue was in a language someone else can understand is on the day of pentecost.

That’s incorrect, Rigth4life. You misunderstand the meaning of “unknown tongue” again. “Unknown tongue” means “foreign language” or “another language”. The apostle Paul was well educated and knew several different languages. If in addition, he had the supernatural gift of tongues, as this verse seems to imply, he is saying “Why should I pray in another language?” My own spirit speaks to God, but the understanding of my prayer is unfruitful to those around me. They are unable to agree with me in prayer, or to be blessed by my communication with the Lord. Therefore, I will pray in a language understood by the people so that my spirit can pray and they can understand as well. Paul confirms this in the chapter by saying unless this is done it is FRUITLESS, and you are like a BARBARIAN, unable to say “Amen” to what is said:

“Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret …. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?” 1 Corinthians 14:16

Ecstatic babbling is NOT a sign of the Holy Spirit. And again, according to Paul, speaking in tongues should not be done in the church unless either he or another translator is there to explain what was said:

“If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” 1 Corinthians 14:28

Paul insists that only one man speak in a foreign language at a time, with never more than three doing this at one meeting, and then only if there is someone present who can translate each message. One can only use the gift of tongues if he knew in advance an interpreter would be there, “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” 1 Corinthians 14:33

Sorry right4life, but the Pentecostal view is NOT valid. My prayers are with you that one day you see this. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. P.S. Lastly, this is not about winning an argument for me. God bless.

The pentecostal view is valid. I don’t know why there is such antipathy, almost hatred, towards the gift of tongues, and those who speak it. is it jealousy? I will continue to follow Paul’s admonition, that you posted, to pray in the spirit, and with understanding. I Thank God for the gift of tongues, and it is truly a gift, and not something I do on my own.

right4life on September 6, 2008 at 6:26 PM

The point is not that the Pentecostal view is invalid; it is when a particular church insists that speaking in tongues is a prerequisite for salvation. Speaking in tongues happened/happens, and when there is interpretation it truly is the Glory of God. But it isn’t, and we must employ the whole of Scripture. Paul describes all this in I Cor 12:4-11.