Awesome: GOP rocks out to … “Barracuda”; Update: Cease and desist letter sent!
posted at 12:09 am on September 5, 2008 by Allahpundit
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I was going to save it for morning but it’s simply too sweet. Listen for the cheers at the beginning as the crowd recognizes the track. Exit question: When do the Wilson sisters file the copyright suit? Tomorrow or next week?
Update: Correct answer: Tonight!
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We Republicans probably ought to just stick to playing classical music by a bunch of dead guys, ’cause there just aren’t that many non-country musicians who will let us play their stuff. They’re all so stinking liberal they can’t even tolerate the exposure of a decades-old song that might give them a much-needed boost of popularity if it also makes Republicans smile. If they left this alone for even a few days, they probably could have sold thousands of downloads on iTunes before getting all righteously indignant and sending their C&D order. Now most of us won’t want to give them any of our money because they’re so snippy about it.
aero on September 5, 2008 at 1:03 AM
From their statement on TMZ, it appears they’re nowhere near the level of the Dixie Chicks. It was actually kind of polite for a liberal. If they don’t want it used, fine — their loss. Could have made millions. They are wrong, though, if they think that anyone needed to ask their permission.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Yup, I’m sold. It is better!
Kini on September 5, 2008 at 1:04 AM
“John Mellencamp already kicked McCain’s ass”
Dude, you don’t get it, nor do you “get” John McCain. Siccing a lawyer on someone is not “kicking their ass.” Unless, I guess, you’re a lefty milksop. Then it’s probably the only way you’ll ever win at anything. And even that don’t always work for y’all in presidential elections.:)
exlibris on September 5, 2008 at 1:04 AM
Ann Wilson has become more Shamu, sadly.
profitsbeard on September 5, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Lame, petty troll is lame and petty.
fossten on September 5, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Yeah, I got that impression too when they relocated the band to Canada while John McCain was living in a box.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Way to alienate half your audience, Heart.
Tuning Spork on September 5, 2008 at 1:05 AM
From the longer thread tonight, the time stamps DON’T lie. McCain’s campaign always screws up this copyright stuff. When are they going to learn?
Allah, stop stealing my comments.
/sarc/
BuckeyeSam on September 5, 2008 at 1:07 AM
Oh boo freakin’ hoo. Somebody they don’t like blew the dust off their song and played it. How petty and small do you have to be to object?
capitalist piglet on September 5, 2008 at 1:08 AM
That is the largest group to listen to that song, or Heart in general, in history. What are they crying about???
They would be cool if the democrats serenaded The Chosen One with Magic Man. “ooooooh, he’s a magic man mamma”.
Roger Waters on September 5, 2008 at 1:08 AM
I can barely turn my dusty old PS2 on, let alone make a video of me playing. And I’m totally jealous of those kids who make their own custom songs!
shaner5000 on September 5, 2008 at 1:09 AM
Okay if she is still consistently good in two weeks I’ll give my self over to complete adulation and sign up to make phone calls or whatever.
New topic:
Okay, I’ve wanted to say this but can’t find a thread that is specifically on point so I’m just going to put it here. Maybe it will cheer poor Allah’s nervous heart.
JD Hayworth does a radio show in Phoenix in the afternoons. In the car this afternoon he interviewed some PUMAs who were really unhappy after the Democrat convention in Denver. They were headed home in their RV. They heard on the radio about Sarah Palin and then caught some of the sexist stuff. They decided to join the Republican Convention and headed to St.Paul.
They said that they are trying to spread the word that if the media and the Democrats get away with making Sarah a liability to McCain with the slanders and sexism then it may be a long long time before either party tries to put a woman on the ticket again.
So it is a true feminist position to help Sarah win.
That is the best reason I have heard so far to convince all PUMAs that this is a strike for women overall and to put the other feminist issue asside.
Personally, I think whatever, but Obama could be in trouble if they are successful in communicating that message.
petunia on September 5, 2008 at 1:09 AM
Musicians for censorship.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:09 AM
This is not the only case. Remember when Linda Ronstadt said during a concert that she didn’t like Republicans listening to her songs?
Ladies, you can keep your Canadian residences. I want my money back!
newton on September 5, 2008 at 1:10 AM
Just get Van Zant to travel with McCain/Palin on the trail, and play this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mroRAmsa4FY
ignore the video, its the only youtube i could find of the album song.
Vincenzo on September 5, 2008 at 1:10 AM
And your party points out every time it rains down here in NOLA the levees are gonna break.
joeswampy on September 5, 2008 at 1:10 AM
It would be interesting to see the legal niceties about one-time usage of songs at events like conventions, versus continued usage as a sort of branding of song to product (the product in this case being Gov. Palin). I would think the former would simply be treated the same way a song played on the radio is — pay your royalty fee to ASCAP or BMI and you’re good to go. The latter is where the artist would have a say in how his or her song is used.
So if you’re a liberal, you can do what the Wilson sisters did (or John Mellencamp last year, or Bobby McFerrin in 1988, or Bruce Springsteen in 1984…) and deny the big bad evil conservative Republican the right to use your song. Though if Heart or some of the other rock stars had any cleverness, they’d do what the Pretenders’ Crissie Hynde with Rush Limbaugh to let him keep using “My City Was Gone”.
jon1979 on September 5, 2008 at 1:11 AM
They’re probably extremely proud of themselves for making such a “bold political statement”. Guess what? They will once again slip into obscurity after tonight.
lobstress on September 5, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Palin’s response to Heart:
Relax. The Girl’s on Film. She’s walking on sunshine. Tonight was a total Bohemian Rhapsody in Minnesota. Not even the Fat Bottom Girls of Code Pink could Walk this Way….
(fleeing room before the torches and pitchforks come out)
sulla on September 5, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Debatable. But if you quote any part of this with or without attribution you owe me.
Current IP legislation is lengthy enough to do the exact opposite of promotion of “useful Arts”.
Using without permission is very different from theft. Should they send you a C&D for humming their song in your head?
fronclynne on September 5, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Whoa- that’s gotta be different.
For the flap over the song Barracuda, it is private property, with all the copyright protections attached. A business or entity may not use it without permission. However, if an individual with a purchased copy of that album were to play it over their own system- loudly- after an event, well…
BillH on September 5, 2008 at 1:12 AM
Fools………… they should have known.
This……… would have been better!
Seven Percent Solution on September 5, 2008 at 1:13 AM
McCain’s already e-mailing for more money. I’m still waiting for my McCain-Palin sportswear.
Besides, no more money until I see that they are serious about Ohio. And serious means an appearance at an Ohio State home game. Buckeye fans would love to see the McCain and Palin families in Scarlet & Gray shaking hands with head coach Jim Tressel, handling the coin toss, and dotting the “i” in the script Ohio. Corny, you bet. “But gold, Jerry, pure gold.”
BuckeyeSam on September 5, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Well–you know how it is kind of creepy to see Mic Jager and Alice Cooper and those old guys still rocking out?
Maybe it is creepy for them to see all those old Republicans dancing to their song…
Just a thought…
petunia on September 5, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Would nickelback allow their music to be played?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76i6aZgo2io
and for God’s sake, hire Jerry Bruckheimer to start staging events, he’s a Republican after all.
Vincenzo on September 5, 2008 at 1:14 AM
Whoever knows how to do viral emails needs to get this out, now.
So good, it needs to be linked again, again, and again. Pass it on.
BARRACUUUUUU…..DAH!
Saltysam on September 5, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Actually, just play this, and have them come out to fire and eagles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuERh0jBjh8
Vincenzo on September 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM
No disrespect, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. If the GOP paid the royalty fees to BMI and ASCAP, that’s the end of the story. The only way they could get in trouble is if they used it in a way that implied an endorsement, and they clearly did not. It was background music.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM
Rush has universal rights to that song. Any time it is played anywhere, he gets a nice little royalty check. He has said so several times. And not only that: he bought the song rights… for a song!
No wonder it is not played as much nowadays! Leftists can’t stand to give any money to someone they consider the Devil incarnate!
newton on September 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM
Ditto.
BuckeyeSam on September 5, 2008 at 1:16 AM
This is why I like classical music. Beethoven doesn’t give me a reason to delete all his music from my iPod.
I guess my parents raised me with strange idea that just because someone has the ability to spread their beliefs doesn’t make their beliefs right.
I’ll just add these has beens to my ever growing list of yahoos that make me change the channel and/or station.
rockhead on September 5, 2008 at 1:19 AM
Would a Maverick be intimidated by a cease and desist threat?
Never!
Let’s see how many FOBs (Friends of Barry) will waste their money on lawyers and letters instead of campaign donations.
Bob Dylan? Double indemnity. He wrote Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands and Sara for his first wife.
Who can forget Sara Smile by Hall and Oates?
Then we have Sara by Fleetwood Mac and Sara by Jefferson Starship. Heck, we should probably sue Jefferson Starship for We Built This City.
All this talk of classic rock and Guitar Hero reminds me — why wasn’t McCain’s good friend Alice Cooper among the convention performers? He could have dedicated I’m Eighteen to Levi Johnston.
Heh.
Terrie on September 5, 2008 at 1:21 AM
What? No NWA? No Lil Kim? No Grandmaster Flash? Wu Tang Klan and Sugar Hill Gang? Wait till the morning pundits get ahold of this. The folks at MSNBC are going to be raising cain. Guarantee it.
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 1:21 AM
To late!
They’ll probably experience a surge of album sales anyway. I listened to some Heart today for the first time in a good while, although I’ve long been a fan and listen to them fairly often.
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 1:22 AM
If fans knew what those sisters are doing right now, they wouldn’t be buying! There is going to be a lot of musical “buyer remorse” after tonight.
newton on September 5, 2008 at 1:24 AM
The problem, I think, is that using a song for a televised event requires a synchronization license in addition to the performance license, and that, IIRC, requires direct negotiation with the rights holder.
VerbumSap on September 5, 2008 at 1:24 AM
If anyone would like, send their agent a letter, stating that because of the campaign, you’ve rediscovered the great music of Heart and that you appreciate their contribution to the American Music Scene.
The best way to get people to sell their royalties is by flattering them. A disc jockey knows this.
Sakaki on September 5, 2008 at 1:27 AM
Yeah, an affiliation with a Republican campaign could be a career-ender. Whoops, too late!
Jim Treacher on September 5, 2008 at 1:28 AM
What televised event? They held a convention. The news covered it.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:28 AM
SHUT UP AND SING…
reshas1 on September 5, 2008 at 1:29 AM
*Cue*
amerpundit on September 5, 2008 at 1:30 AM
Palin’s viewer numbers revised upward & beats Obama:
More than 40 million people see Palin speech
Loxodonta on September 5, 2008 at 1:30 AM
Chrissie Hynde, a rabid animal right’s advocate, has been the theme music of Limbaugh for over a decade.
I liked Ann Wilson when she weighed under 247 pounds.
It must have been depressing knowing that Nancy had a tenth her talent but was seven times hotter on MTV.
TexasJew on September 5, 2008 at 1:32 AM
By the time I get through choosing movies and music by political affiliation, I will be watching and listening to nothing.
Connie on September 5, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Hey, FloatingRock!
(OT) I think my curse is broken! I rooted for Sarah and actually got Sarah! I can’t believe it! I hope it holds through November! ;-)
aero on September 5, 2008 at 1:32 AM
You stay classy, liberals.
Democrats ended their Super Bowl halftime show last week with a song by Brooks and Dunn, who are as Republican as they come (I know, I have a picture with them at the 2000 RNC convention, and they actually spoke on behalf of George W. Bush). They simply issued a statement saying they were glad people from so many walks of life were able to hear and appreciate their music.
rockmom on September 5, 2008 at 1:32 AM
I know. That’s why reading books is always safer for me.
newton on September 5, 2008 at 1:33 AM
“Well–you know how it is kind of creepy to see Mic Jager and Alice Cooper and those old guys still rocking out?”
Alice Cooper? No way. You may find this shocking but The Coop is actually a christian and a pretty conservative guy…when he’s not playing Alice Cooper on stage. Plus, he’s a scratch golfer. The Coop is cool and I would bet he is voting republican.
Roger Waters on September 5, 2008 at 1:34 AM
I wonder if they’ll pay for the lawyer with all the money they make from iTunes tonight?
Jim Treacher on September 5, 2008 at 1:37 AM
In other news, Frank Zappa’s estate fired off a cease and desist letter to the Democrats for their use of Ship Arriving Too Late To Save a Drowning Witch after Hillary Clinton’s speech.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:40 AM
McCain tries to be bi-Partisan by using a liberals music and just look what happens.. LOL
>:D
Maverick!
Chakra Hammer on September 5, 2008 at 1:41 AM
It was a tasteless, disrespectful exploitation of a massive tragedy for political gain. You don’t understand that. That’s okay.
Dave Rywall on September 5, 2008 at 12:38 AM
No Dave, what you don’t understand is how folks like you try to censor the showing of said clip because it’s a reminder of years of incompetence and appeasement by the left and their cavalier attitude towards national security. It also kind of refutes the “there is no terrorist threat” line of BS your side throws around too.
Next.
There is nothing more sad, tragic and funnier than a pretentious liberal who get’s everything wrong.
celtnik on September 5, 2008 at 1:44 AM
Had similar thoughts – probably most recognition they’ve got in a loooooong time. Primadonas with “country not first”. Are they Canadian or American?
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 1:45 AM
They were American until Vietnam. Then they suddenly became Canadian.
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:46 AM
The R lawyers need to learn the words “public domain”.
It would help settle all usage problems.
There are hundreds of great, free songs from the pre-1940 era ready to use.
Just find a band to do a new arrangement and cook with it if the original recording sounds dated.
“I Found a Million Dollar Baby (in a Five and Dime Store)”?
profitsbeard on September 5, 2008 at 1:47 AM
Well, McCain’s first steps as a nominated candidate into the realm of bipartisanship have been effectively snubbed by liberals.
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 1:47 AM
profitsbeard, what is your political gut telling you right now?
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 1:47 AM
Thanks Ronnie – you’re not being sarcastic?
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 1:48 AM
The backlash has begun:
Readers cancel subscriptions to Us Magazine over Palin story:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26549704/
blue13326 on September 5, 2008 at 1:49 AM
The way I look at it, most musicians and artists in general are political morons. In ancient human civilizations most of them were probably largely dependent on wiser, more down-to-earth people for their very survival. I generally don’t have a freaking clue what the lyrics of any of my lifelong all time favorite songs, that I’ve heard thousands of times, mean and I couldn’t care less. I listen to good music for it’s musical quality, not the message.
Some of Hearts songs are among my favorites and there’s no way I’d give them up just because they’re politics are typical of musicians.
Bach is one of my favorite classical composers to play on classical guitar and Jesus, Joy of Mans Desire is the first song I learned, and I’m an atheist.
Great music is just great music.
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 1:50 AM
So you didn’t have to move or anything, huh? Congratulations! :)
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 1:51 AM
The all-knowing ever-changing Wikipedia says, “By the mid-1970s the male band members were eligible to be drafted to Vietnam, so the band relocated to Vancouver, Canada.”
Ronnie on September 5, 2008 at 1:52 AM
Guess what Wilson Sisters…
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/playing-music-in-public.html
RightWinged on September 5, 2008 at 1:52 AM
Beautiful!
Now, to iTunes! I want my money back!
newton on September 5, 2008 at 1:52 AM
You’d probably be right, except that most will probably not learn of this.
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Giacomo Puccini is my favorite FR.
Musicians or any artists being so blatantly partisan is as dumb as posting a “McCain or Obama for president” sign into the window of a pizza restaurant. Not capitalistic and idiotic.
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Ronnie, great way to describe Wiki :)
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 1:56 AM
Sweet
Spirit of 1776 on September 5, 2008 at 1:56 AM
Thanks for that.
Loxodonta on September 5, 2008 at 1:57 AM
The Cuda…….DENIED!!
The Ugly American on September 5, 2008 at 1:57 AM
Is she the guitar player? I’m not sure, but I think she wrote the music for most of their best songs, perhaps excepting the lyrics.
I’m really not sure though, but she used to get some talk in guitar magazines back in the day. She may not be one of the great guitarists with respect to skill, but they have some awesome songs. Also a good number of boring, crappy ones, though.
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 1:58 AM
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 1:53 AM –
Had surgery a while back…had to be awake for it all. Brought in a couple Puccini CD’s. They played them during surgery. Afterwards, some of the nursing staff asked where they could get copies. “O, mio babbino caro” is one of my favorite pieces. Tosca, Turandot and of course, Madame Butterfly, they all rock.
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 1:58 AM
I had no idea, but it’s a good demonstration of separating music from politics.
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 1:59 AM
…and the donks wonder why we end up playing country music at our rallies.
Gawd forbid they’d allow us the pleasure of mainstream music too.
The Ugly American on September 5, 2008 at 2:00 AM
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 1:58 AM
Great comment. What a way to detract the agony of surgery. I also love his life story, the families’, and abhor what happened to him, after his death. Great read, his life story. I saw Turandot by the great New York Opera.
But, back to Barracuda versus Barrackuda. It’s quite the year.
Entelechy on September 5, 2008 at 2:06 AM
These musicians that protest their songs being used are idiots. One, don’t be political, if people like your song, you should be grateful. Two, especially if you’re some old washed up group called Heart who I never heard of. Three, why can’t someone play whatever song they want without asking permission? If they already bought the CD, that’s should be sufficient. It’s stupid.
CP on September 5, 2008 at 2:07 AM
The same reason why they manage to go bankrupt after making millions, and waste their lives on drugs and booze. You don’t need a brain to be a rockstar. Apparently, the old has-beens don’t know any better, either.
lobstress on September 5, 2008 at 2:09 AM
Did this happen?:
MayBee on September 5, 2008 at 2:11 AM
MayBee on September 5, 2008 at 2:11 AM –
I wouldn’t hold my breath for that Plouffe ad…
Just got this in my email jhunk box:
Friend –
Why would the Republicans spend a whole night of their convention attacking ordinary people?
With the nation watching, the Republicans mocked, dismissed, and actually laughed out loud at Americans who engage in community service and organizing.
Our convention was different. We gave the stage to everyday Americans who hunger for change and stepped up to make phone calls, knock on doors, and raise money in small amounts in their communities.
You may have missed it, but we also showed the country a video with the faces and voices of those organizers, volunteers, and donors from every corner of the country.
Watch the video and make a donation of $5 or more now to show that in this election, ordinary people will make their voices heard.
What you didn’t hear from the Republicans at their convention is a single new idea about how to make the healthcare system work, get our economy moving for the middle class, or improve education.
Just attacks — on me, and on you.
But what the McCain attack squad doesn’t understand is that people like you — who devote part of their busy lives to organizing and building their communities — have the power to change this country.
With your help, that’s exactly what we’re going to do.
Thank you,
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Thanks for the recommendation. I’m sure I’ve heard parts of Madame Butterfly but don’t recall it specifically, just recognize the title. I’ve been listening to The Barber of Seville and William Tell by Gioachino Rossini recently, along with the overtures of some of his other popular works.
FloatingRock on September 5, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Ah, and I was going to buy this song on iTunes tonight. But never mind.
Lady Jane on September 5, 2008 at 2:25 AM
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 2:18 AM
The American people are not as dumb as Mr. Plouffe and his elitist candidate and entourage believe them to be.
Schadenfreude on September 5, 2008 at 2:26 AM
The ancient Wilson sisters and their dinosaur hair-band music are a little too old for Palin anyway.
Django on September 5, 2008 at 2:27 AM
I am a big supporter of bringing the limit back to 14 years. It is what the Founding Fathers wanted, it cuts the criminality of making back-catalogs of music and puts it in line with patent durations.
Tim Burton on September 5, 2008 at 2:28 AM
Back to Alice! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6854784063656383723
ForNow on September 5, 2008 at 2:29 AM
C&D?
really? who didn’t see this coming?
(has this percise snide comment been posted yet?)
urbancenturion on September 5, 2008 at 2:32 AM
The copyright error is a common one. The RNC ought to have purchased temporary ASCAP and BMI licenses: virtually all music copyrighted in the last 75 years or so is in one of their catalogs.
It’s the same license which bars and nightclubs who play recorded music must purchase (although many do not until forced to). Once you have that in place, I don’t believe any individual artist can opt out.
-
As others noted above, the issue of rebroadcasting is one to be discussed with the networks, not the RNC.
Adjoran on September 5, 2008 at 2:32 AM
Django on September 5, 2008 at 2:27 AM –
They did their best stuff in the 70’s and 80’s. Palin is 44. This is the music of her formative years.
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 2:32 AM
Schadenfreude on September 5, 2008 at 2:26 AM –
All Plouffe needs is one vote more than McCain gets.
Hard to imagine, but there are plenty of Americans who are that dumb. I see them every day…from the FUBU crowd to the lib professors over on campus, and a lot in between.
coldwarrior on September 5, 2008 at 2:35 AM
: )
How about some Django Reinhardt?
capitalist piglet on September 5, 2008 at 2:36 AM
The RNC paid, otherwise those has-beens would have a suit following the C&D and I can tell you that a suit isn’t coming.
Tim Burton on September 5, 2008 at 2:54 AM
I am watching the re-run and I will tell you – with tears in my eyes – Heart can (ummm be off my play list, stronger expletives deleted by me) – i will be letting them know tomorrow they have one less fan (if they care)
HawaiiLwyr on September 5, 2008 at 3:11 AM
I find it amusing that people think this is some sort of error by the RNC/McCain, rather than a shtick. It’s so predictable that… AP (and everyone else) predicted it. It will be news tomorrow, extending the Barracuda story another day in the news cycle.
Karl on September 5, 2008 at 3:14 AM
LOL… I told my wife, during the convention, that this was going to cause a stir and she looked at me like I owed her money.
I think one of the two sisters lives and works in
The People’s RebubSan Fran.Claypigeon on September 5, 2008 at 3:21 AM
Aero:
I’VE been hoping that the Curse that has followed the Cubs
would finally end.
Alas, it looks like they’re just choking late this year.
Fraking Goat!
McCain/Sara’Cuda 2008.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 5, 2008 at 3:23 AM
None taken, and I freely admit I’m wrong. I’ve been reading other threads about this very subject, and it seems the consensus is, basically, Heart can blow it out their you-know-what. They have no real standing unless they themselves own the song, which apparently isn’t the case. I
guess this then is much like a radio station playing the song- an agreement is reached, the song is played, the royalty (if any) is paid. It would be nice if Heart were on board with this, but if not, eh.
BillH on September 5, 2008 at 3:32 AM
Did the RNC pay for the music? If they did, end of story, since Heart legally prostituted themselves. If the RNC didn’t, Heart has every right to assert their copyright. After all, aren’t we the party that holds sacred the concept of private property?
It would be interesting to know which end is up on this.
And, joeswampy, Dave Rywall is a Canadian! His party is not the party you think it is. I suspect he’s a Liberal — the guys who got hounded out of office up there (after 12 years of holding power) for bribery and abuse of public trust in the “Adscam” debacle. In that case, the Liberals funneled money to the Parti Quebecois through government payments to an “ad agency”. Interestingly, the Parti is determined to make Quebec independent of Canada, and tried to turn the corruption news into a further reason for secession. Talk about Liberal patriotism, eh?
unclesmrgol on September 5, 2008 at 3:34 AM
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