Quote of the day

posted at 10:25 pm on August 29, 2008 by Allahpundit

“Here’s I fear the worst harm that may be done by this selection. The McCain campaign’s slogan is ‘country first.’ It’s a good slogan, and it aptly describes John McCain, one of the most self-sacrificing, gallant, and honorable men ever to seek the presidency.

But question: If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?”

Blowback

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sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 1:46 AM

What like McCain

- McCain graduated 894th out of 899 in his class at the United States Naval Academy

Barry’s B Average doesn’t look to shabby now!

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM

Michael in MI, noted, with respect. Thus, not more, and more often, though heartily meant, and much deserved by you.

Sand is in the eyes. Good night all, until we fight write again, tomorrow,

Entelechy on August 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM

Entelechy on August 30, 2008 at 1:39 AM

I’m not very good at taking compliments, but I wanted to say thank you for your kind words.

Michael in MI on August 30, 2008 at 1:57 AM

Od’s fish, m’man, don’t be so modest.

BlakeneyP on August 30, 2008 at 2:05 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:03 AM

Maybe he overestimated the intelligence of the American people. By the Palin hype, I did too.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:06 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 1:46 AM

What like McCain

- McCain graduated 894th out of 899 in his class at the United States Naval Academy

Barry’s B Average doesn’t look to shabby now!

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM

John’s got a resume with a little more real world experience….

how many Carrier Air Groups has Barry led again????

Oh dammnit never mind I forgot he’s got that damned “community organizer” trumpcard for “militant experience”.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:06 AM

Maybe he overestimated the intelligence of the American people. By the Palin hype, I did too.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:06 AM

I need you to e-mail that snark to http://WWW.Messiah08.org please… that kind of elistist narcissism has worked so well for the DNC the last 30 years.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:07 AM

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 1:47 AM

Reagan was qualified

BA Sociology and Economics

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:08 AM

I am so happy voters are morons and look to elect uneducated people.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 1:42 AM

And Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and Jimmy Carter attended Georgia Tech University before receiving an appointment to the United States Naval Academy where he received a Bachelor of Science degree. Two real jewels.

Johan Klaus on August 30, 2008 at 2:09 AM

Begala’s piece over at CNN is a hoot. If the MSM decides to tell hometown America they aren’t smart enough to be VP then Barry better get a another set of tires for that bus of his. Cheese and Wine meet Beer and Pretzels.

Limerick on August 30, 2008 at 2:10 AM

BA Sociology and Economics

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:08 AM

Multiple Governor of California….

oh wait Barry was a state senator that voted “present” 130 times….yeah that trumps Reagan

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:10 AM

Begala’s piece over at CNN is a hoot. If the MSM decides to tell hometown America they aren’t smart enough to be VP then Barry better get a another set of tires for that bus of his. Cheese and Wine meet Beer and Pretzels.

Limerick on August 30, 2008 at 2:10 AM

the wheels on the bus go round and round…round and round and round

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:12 AM

Eureka College. Not exactly Ivy League.

But, Reagan did not run on his education credentials, nor did he use those credentials at any time during his Presidency. Never saw it once during my 8 years in DC during his Administration.

The point being, having a sheepskin doesn’t make one a leader. Being dependent on a sheepskin, in the manner of a Joe Biden, reflects the exact opposite.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:12 AM

Poptech

i can’t decide where your anger at Palin, McCain, and your party comes from.

are you a romney-or-nothing-extreme-mormon?

are you a huckabee-is-holy-extreme-baptist?

some other extreme wing of a certain demographic?

give me a hint!!!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 30, 2008 at 2:13 AM

i can’t decide where your anger at Palin, McCain, and your party comes from.

are you a romney-or-nothing-extreme-mormon?

are you a huckabee-is-holy-extreme-baptist?

some other extreme wing of a certain demographic?

give me a hint!!!

battleoflepanto1571 on August 30, 2008 at 2:13 AM

disgruntled Romney Moby….

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:14 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:06 AM

Trumps being CinC of the Alaska Nat Guard too.

Damn the bad luck.

TheCulturalist on August 30, 2008 at 2:15 AM

battleoflepanto1571 on August 30, 2008 at 2:13 AM

Me thinks that poptech is a liberal dem.

Johan Klaus on August 30, 2008 at 2:16 AM

Being dependent on a sheepskin, in the manner of a Joe Biden, reflects the exact opposite.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:12 AM

Sheepskin or lambskin? (sorry, I couldn’t resist)

Limerick on August 30, 2008 at 2:16 AM

Johan Klaus on August 30, 2008 at 2:09 AM

Which is why our better recent presidents had MBAs and Economic degrees:

Ronald Reagan
- B.A. Sociology and Economics

George H.W. Bush
- B.A. Economics Yale

George W. Bush
- B.A. History Yale
- M.B.A. Harvard Business School

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:16 AM

Me thinks that poptech is a liberal dem.

Johan Klaus on August 30, 2008 at 2:16 AM

In that case, it is not about giving a hint, it is more about getting a clue.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:17 AM

Trumps being CinC of the Alaska Nat Guard too.

Damn the bad luck.

TheCulturalist on August 30, 2008 at 2:15 AM

well to be fair “militant experience” usually involves running a seance or ten to “divine ‘voter’ intent”…..

so he may not know a Battalion from a Brigade….but he does know a Banshee from a Black Brigand.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:18 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:10 AM

You are not very smart, his economics degree in addition to his extensive 8 years as governor made him qualified. I was not knocking it. I am Palin…

Palin – B.A. Journalism

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:18 AM

Which is why our better recent presidents had MBAs and Economic degrees:

Ronald Reagan
- B.A. Sociology and Economics

George H.W. Bush
- B.A. Economics Yale

George W. Bush
- B.A. History Yale
- M.B.A. Harvard Business School

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:16 AM

and all three knew better than to do what you’re doing….

the 11th commandment.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:19 AM

Um I’m a Conservative Libertarian who thinks the most qualified person for a job should get it not the best looking.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:21 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:19 AM

What exactly am I doing?

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:21 AM

You are not very smart, his economics degree in addition to his extensive 8 years as governor made him qualified. I was not knocking it. I am Palin…

Palin – B.A. Journalism

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:18 AM

well in my defense I’ve been awake for 37 hours now and your voluntary depends filling forays while entertaining in an avant-garde performance art sense are hardly my bag…..

all three of the men whom you now are lauding for degrees were repeatedly derided for lack of intellect by such geniuses as Al “I’m a dropout” Gore…..

whatever your point is um “you’ve made it”….

but newsflash it doesn’t change a thing…she was a good pick probably the best there was for fundraising and party unity and she is a good judo move against your best friend Barry.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:21 AM

Like W, Palin would have the good judgment and accurate assessment of her own limitations to surround herself with the best people, particularly in matters of war and national security, should she become president before 2012. We who supported a Texas governor with no real foreign policy experience “knew” that about him from the start, and we can sense the same in Palin, perhaps even more.

For all Omaba’s talk about his “judgment”, it is just that that we fear most about him. In Palin, we can trust that we need not fear at all.

Halley on August 30, 2008 at 2:22 AM

Um I’m a Conservative Libertarian who thinks the most qualified person for a job should get it not the best looking.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:21 AM

Hi Rush longtime listener first time caller…you know I think we’re in big trouble given those totally real Texas Air National Guard Memos.,…..

Go MOBY!

If your “conservative libertarianism” is best served by a Barry win…keep on firing I’m with the POW/WOW ticket.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:23 AM

For all Omaba’s talk about his “judgment”, it is just that that we fear most about him. In Palin, we can trust that we need not fear at all.

Halley on August 30, 2008 at 2:22 AM

+1

for a man so certain of the worthiness of his gifts, he sure does not grasp the paucity of his talents.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:24 AM

Me thinks that poptech is a liberal dem.

Johan Klaus on August 30, 2008 at 2:16 AM

Hunt for the man
Comb the city, every street, every grate
Drag him out, shout the moment that you find him!

Knock in the doors, lock up the city
Track him down through this town
And be quick about it!

BlakeneyP on August 30, 2008 at 2:28 AM

What exactly am I doing?

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:21 AM

You are not shouting with the crowd.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:30 AM

You are not shouting with the crowd.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:30 AM

Martyr4 news

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:32 AM

It’s appalling. In less than 8 hours, every media outlet and Obama supporter trashed Palin for everything ranging including experience, integrity and absolute trash talk. Yet, for over 18 months, these same people have patently ignored Obama’s glaring lack experience or legislative accomplishments and his 20+ years of relationships with racists, terrorists and felons. Each of the stones they throw demonstrates a criteria that their candidate has not met.

Let’s assume (though it is patently false) that Gov. Palin is not qualified to be Vice President due to lack of experience. Were that the case, would it the same argument be even more true about Sen. Obama? Put more simply: if both candidates are inexperienced, which would have the least potential for causing irreparable harm- A President or Vice President?

Conveniently, this in not the case. Obama speeks endlessly about Change, but in 11 years of legislative experience has yet to accomplish anything other than running for subsequent offices, voting ‘present’ 130 times and falling infalliby in line with his parties positions. Palin, in comparison, has accomplished more in her time as Governor than Obama has accomplished in his lifetime.

It is clear that Obama cannot hold a candle to Palin’s accomplishments, experience or integrity and is emminently more qualified to be President than him. But she is running for Vice President alongside the one politician in Washington who does not only speak about change, but has a 28 year track record of accomplishing it. Comparing Palin to Biden is similarly a joke. After 30 years in the Senate, you would think that he could get more primary votes than Stephen Colbert. Sadly, he could not. Biden, like the inferior man at the top of his ticket, unfailingly votes with his party and has a similar, unfailing record of publicly insulting people based on race, religion, national origin, intelligence and sex. Even at his VP introduction, he introduced his by saying, “Ladies and gentlemen, my wife Jill, who you’ll meet soon, is drop dead gorgeous.She also has her doctorate degree, which is a problem.”

So, not only does the Democratic ticket denounce women for their intelligence, but it also bans voting for women at it’s conventions.

It is truly sad that on the anniversary of Dr. King’s illustrious “I Have a Dream” speech, the Democrats nominated candidates in spite of the content of their character, not because of it.

It is even more sad that less than 24 hours later, their campaign’s mysogenistic first response to Gov. Palin’s selection. Obama later stated that his revised statement is what he really meant and everyone shout disgard the “hair trigger” of his campaign. Odd that it’s his campaign’s “hair trigger” that needed to be corrected, considering how often he and his surrogates condemn McCain’s “hair trigger”, which has yet failed to present itself in this campaign.

But, this lastest inconsistency and after the fact revision is nothing new. Obama has done it with nearly every one of his policies and even in his statements about the Russia/ Georgia conflict. 3 statements and two days later, he comes around to making the same type of comments that McCain initially (and correctly) made and the Obama campaign condemned.

The President does not get multiple tries to get things right when his decisions are of national and global consequence. The President cannot vote ‘present’ no matter how politically expedient it may be. Thank goodness we have John McCain, who seems to not only get things right the first time, he generally hit things out of the park. His performance at Saddleback was the first significant evidence during the campaign of this glaring disparity between him and Obama. I suppose that the lack of further evidence is due to the debates that Sen. Obama vehemenrly calls for but has singularly failed to show up to. Sen. McCain had the invitation and chair waiting for months, but Obama was too busy on his marketing junkets to actually address issues. It is the candidate of Change that has insisted on only the standard debate template and conspiously avoids questions about policies, in favor of lofty and undefined rhetoric.

God forbid Gov. Palin should ever be called upon to fulfill the most dreaded responsibilty of a Vice President, I for one fell confident that she has a consistent track record or Change that Can Be Documented instead of Change that we’re trying to get you to Believe but have no evidence of and no plan to acheive.

Perhaps a more fair comparison would be to the closest peer to the day to day job of the Vice President- to preside over the Senate. Sarah Palin has lead, from an executive role, the State of Alaska to implementing a comprehesive conservation and energy reform and developed new means to help meet our country’s energy needs from the State that has produced the most domestic energy for decades. She has been to ANWAR and been a part of environmentally responsible programs. In contrast, Speaker Pelosi gives speeches about saving the earth while banning voting or debate on energy production and reform. Palin sold her State’s executive jet and put the money back into the budget while Pelosi was demanding a larger and less fuel effiicent plane so she wouldn’t have to stop for fuel while commuting on taxpayer dollars. Palin seeks to drill oil while Speaker Pelosi seeks to “drill your brains”.

I hope that all the ignorant have fun with your post partisan smear campaigns. Gov. Palin has work to do.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:32 AM

[Joe Biden]

- Adjunct Professor, Widener University School of Law, 1991-present

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 1:28 AM

Er … people generally don’t like to admit to being adjuncts. That’s nothing more than a part-time instructor, really.

B Hussein had the same little problem … which he initially tried to lie about, although less people understood how embarassing the truth turned out to be. To many, ‘adjunct’ sounds really official, even though it’s really about the lowest level.

progressoverpeace on August 30, 2008 at 2:33 AM

never mind I forgot he’s got that d—– “community organizer” trumpcard for “militant experience”.
sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:06 AM

Who says he needs “military experience?” He seems to think that by using Soldier references in the “sob story” portions of his speeches that he knows all he needs to know about the military. This goes to show you why military service should be mandatory for becoming President.

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 2:33 AM

4 resumes of executive experience, where one makes organization-wide decisions and typically has hire/fire or promote/demote authority:

Barry – zero, zippo, nada; but helluva street organizer and teleprompter reader

Joe – ditto; but top notch plagerizer and perennial also-ran POTUS candidate

Johnny – squadron commander

Sarah – point guard (even this beats BO!), mayor, ethics commissioner, governor

The Senate is a debating society – hardly a training ground for leaders, as American politics has not favored Senators as POTUS candidates historically.

fred5678 on August 30, 2008 at 2:34 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:24 AM –

Many years ago, back when being in the Army didn’t have the support it has today, one of my jobs as a professional NCO was breaking in new lieutenants. The West Pointers were a wash. Weren’t designed for company grade, so they got the benefit of the doubt, and were moved along, usually having their next assignment already processed through personnel before they even got to us. Butter bars from the big schools, ROTC grads, were a generally clueless lot. Many had Masters, a few had PhD’s. But, as a general observation, most of them couldn’t lead a squad of troops through the PX without difficulty. It was the Mustangs I preferred. Most were natural leaders. Condemned by the system to having their entire careers at the company level, maybe a few advancing to field grade.

But, the ones who were administatively washed out of the Army or were transferrred to service support units were those who thought being Cadet Battalion Commander at Ohio State or University of Michigan meant they were too good to be doing Second Lieutenant stuff. And when we gave them weapons and live ammo, our efforts were to not get any of our own killed.

Again, the number of degrees, the sheepskins from the most elite schools, certainly do not make for the most effective leaders. A few, perhaps, but in general, no.

Leadership. One is or one isn’t. And all the engraved and facny sealed paper in the world cannot ever change that little detail.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:36 AM

When this chick was on the job as governor, she accumulated more experience than The Dali Bama in the first two hours. She’s been doing this for how long now?

DfDeportation on August 30, 2008 at 2:37 AM

David Frum, you’re a closet Obama supporter.

How can you refer to her as “a small town Mayor” when she is the governor of the state of Alaska?

Your “tell” is emphasized by the high regard you give to senatorial experience, while NONE of the candidates have executive experience, except for Governor Palin.

Seems like some of the boys at National Review are happy to assist with the Senate’s attempt to pull a coup d’tat on the Presidential Office.

Saltysam on August 30, 2008 at 2:40 AM

Like W, Palin would have the good judgment and accurate assessment of her own limitations to surround herself with the best people

Halley on August 30, 2008 at 2:22 AM

lol.

Like Alberto Gonzales, Harriet Miers, Michael Browne, Michael Chertoff, Condi Rice, Julie Myers, etc., etc.?

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:40 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:30 AM

Ah, I am supposed to attach myself to the delusional bandwagon. Mob mentality does not suit me.

Beauty Queen, Sportcaster, PTA Member, Hockey Mom, Mayor of Wasilla (pop: 6000), B.A. Journalism…

What part am I supposed to be excited about?

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:40 AM

Many years ago, back when being in the Army didn’t have the support it has today, one of my jobs as a professional NCO was breaking in new lieutenants. The West Pointers were a wash. Weren’t designed for company grade, so they got the benefit of the doubt, and were moved along, usually having their next assignment already processed through personnel before they even got to us. Butter bars from the big schools, ROTC grads, were a generally clueless lot. Many had Masters, a few had PhD’s. But, as a general observation, most of them couldn’t lead a squad of troops through the PX without difficulty. It was the Mustangs I preferred. Most were natural leaders. Condemned by the system to having their entire careers at the company level, maybe a few advancing to field grade.

But, the ones who were administatively washed out of the Army or were transferrred to service support units were those who thought being Cadet Battalion Commander at Ohio State or University of Michigan meant they were too good to be doing Second Lieutenant stuff. And when we gave them weapons and live ammo, our efforts were to not get any of our own killed.

Again, the number of degrees, the sheepskins from the most elite schools, certainly do not make for the most effective leaders. A few, perhaps, but in general, no.

Leadership. One is or one isn’t. And all the engraved and facny sealed paper in the world cannot ever change that little detail.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:36 AM

+1 QFT

Mustangs rule…always better to know your boss wore your boots once.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:41 AM

Defeated an entrenched Republican former governor, defeated a sitting Dem governor, cleaned out a lot of the garbage posing as qualified state employees…and in very short order. That’s a qualification I like to see.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:42 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:30 AM

Ah, I am supposed to attach myself to the delusional bandwagon. Mob mentality does not suit me.

Beauty Queen, Sportcaster, PTA Member, Hockey Mom, Mayor of Wasilla (pop: 6000), B.A. Journalism…

What part am I supposed to be excited about?

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:40 AM

Nothing…you keep filling that depends and sooner or later SanFranNan will give you a nice cookie poptart….

temper tantrums about less than optimal(by your judgement) outcomes are the true mark of a team player and hard professional.

YMMV,
sven

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:43 AM

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:36 AM

You left off an entire group. The group that Tommy Franks was in.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:44 AM

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:36 AM

excellent, excellent point.

i have copied it for future reference.

Thank you for your service.

TheCulturalist on August 30, 2008 at 2:45 AM

Defeated an entrenched Republican former governor, defeated a sitting Dem governor, cleaned out a lot of the garbage posing as qualified state employees…and in very short order. That’s a qualification I like to see.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:42 AM

but did she spend part of her youth in Indonesia?

No…well no FP experience soup for her then…..

that Martyr$ and Poptart want “perfect” to the exclusion of good enough shows me either MOBY, narcissistic idealist, or person who has never been forced to hold down Georgia.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:46 AM

You left off an entire group. The group that Tommy Franks was in.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:44 AM

Tommy was a Mustang….

for a “conservative” you sure do say funny things.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:47 AM

If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?”

NO!! I would make him/her THE President. And at first sign that he/she put lobbyists first, I’d vote to re-elect someone else.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 2:47 AM

You are not shouting with the crowd.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:30 AM

Ah, I am supposed to attach myself to the delusional bandwagon. Mob mentality does not suit me.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:40 AM

We teach them to take their patriotism at second-hand; to shout with the largest crowd without examining into the right or wrong of the matter, exactly as boys under monarchies are taught and have always been taught. We teach them to regard as traitors, and hold in aversion and contempt, such as do not shout with the crowd, and so here in our democracy we are cheering a thing which of all things is most foreign to it and out of place, the delivery of our political conscience into somebody else’s keeping. This is patriotism on the Russian plan.
- Mark Twain

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:49 AM

for a “conservative” you sure do say funny things.

sven10077

Mb4 is not a conservative. Or at least not a dogmatic one.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 2:49 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:44 AM

General Franks was OCS, I’d put him in the Mustang category.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:50 AM

We teach them to take their patriotism at second-hand; to shout with the largest crowd without examining into the right or wrong of the matter, exactly as boys under monarchies are taught and have always been taught. We teach them to regard as traitors, and hold in aversion and contempt, such as do not shout with the crowd, and so here in our democracy we are cheering a thing which of all things is most foreign to it and out of place, the delivery of our political conscience into somebody else’s keeping. This is patriotism on the Russian plan.
- Mark Twain

MB4

You just surmised what is going on in our universities! :-) Liberalism is Ok, but conservatism is is just as evil as nazi-ism and shall be shouted down, prevented, and physically stopped if necessary. Not much of a definition of free speech.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 2:52 AM

Tommy was a Mustang….

for a “conservative” you sure do say funny things.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:47 AM

Odd, I never heard that term “Mustang”, except for a horse, and I have the same “Alma mater” as he does.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:54 AM

This is patriotism on the Russian plan.
- Mark Twain

MB4

That is actually the smartest thing I have heard regarding this Obama/socialist movement all year.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 2:54 AM

You just surmised what is going on in our universities! :-) Liberalism is Ok, but conservatism is is just as evil as nazi-ism and shall be shouted down, prevented, and physically stopped if necessary. Not much of a definition of free speech.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 2:52 AM

Same show, just under a different tent.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:55 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:43 AM

Oh “Team Player” what is this, the GOP collective now? Since you cannot convince anyone with her pathetic credentials you try to brow beat them. That usually works on weak minded people who cannot think for themselves.

Yes Romney is more qualified than Palin:


Education:
- B.A. Brigham Young University, 1971
- J.D. Harvard University, 1975
- M.B.A. Harvard University, 1975

Political Experience:
- Governor of Massachusetts, 2003-2007

Professional Experience:
- Vice President, Bain and Company, Incorporated, 1978-1984
- CEO, Bain Capital, Incorporated, 1984-1998
- CEO, Bain and Company, Incorporated, 1991-1993
- President, Salt Lake Winter Olympics Organizing Committee, 1999-2002

He makes Palin look like the Affirmative Action Pick that she is! But hey pander to the PUMAS – it could not be any more obvious.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:55 AM

Massachusetts Population = 6,437,193
Alaska Population = 670,053

Do the Math.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:57 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:54 AM –

Mustang…a term of endearment given any soldier who was commissioned and officer [battlefield commission, OCS, direct appointment]; a troop who learned hands on what it meant to be a lowly private before becoming an officer.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:58 AM

We teach them to take their patriotism at second-hand; to shout with the largest crowd without examining into the right or wrong of the matter, exactly as boys under monarchies are taught and have always been taught. We teach them to regard as traitors, and hold in aversion and contempt, such as do not shout with the crowd, and so here in our democracy we are cheering a thing which of all things is most foreign to it and out of place, the delivery of our political conscience into somebody else’s keeping. This is patriotism on the Russian plan.
- Mark Twain

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:49 AM

Nice quote…and you’re either a Moby or a hopeless idealist…..

here’s another Twain quote about your guy Biden…

I know one thing–that a certain amount of pride always goes along with a teaspoonful of brains, and that this pride protects a man from deliberately stealing other people’s ideas. That is what a teaspoonful of brains will do for a man–and admirers had often told me I had nearly a basketful–though they were rather reserved as to the size of the basket.
- “Unconscious Plagiarism” speech, 1879

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:58 AM

General Franks was OCS, I’d put him in the Mustang category.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:50 AM

Never even heard that term for OCS before.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:58 AM

Massachusetts Population = 6,437,193
Alaska Population = 670,053

Do the Math.

Poptech on August 30, 2008 at 2:57 AM

That’d probably be a lot more relevant if Barry had gone Truman Capote and ran w/Barney Frank….

A is A

Reality is what it is.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:59 AM

Never even heard that term for OCS before.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 2:58 AM

General Franks had enlisted experience beyond shake and bake officerhood.

Mustang in modern usage denotes genuine enlisted XP and then OCS…..

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:01 AM

Mustang…a term of endearment given any soldier who was commissioned and officer [battlefield commission, OCS, direct appointment]; a troop who learned hands on what it meant to be a lowly private before becoming an officer.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:58 AM

It still doesn’t ring a bell. Direct appointment (aka, direct commission, I presume) was pretty much the opposite of OCS, doctors, lawyers.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:01 AM

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 2:36 AM>

So, if I understand what you’re saying, only prior-enlisted officers are any good?

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 3:02 AM

Direct appointment of an enlisted soldier in wartime was different than direct appointment of a doctor or JAG, nurse or vet service officer. Were common in WWII, less so in Vietnam, today, very rare.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:04 AM

Nice quote…and you’re either a Moby or a hopeless idealist…..

here’s another Twain quote about your guy Biden

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 2:58 AM

Never “assume” as you know what that does.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:04 AM

sven10077

To quote Biden (or even Obama) is like quoting a socialist or comunist of 20 or more years ago. (they hope you didnt remember or did not have a good history teacher).

To quote Biden or Obama, is about as wise as saying that Biff did his own homework. (Back to the Future)

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 3:06 AM

So, if I understand what you’re saying, only prior-enlisted officers are any good?

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 3:02 AM

they usually are not convinced they are the reincarnation of Napoleon and Patton all rolled into one….prior humbling helps people keep perspective….

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:07 AM

General Franks had enlisted experience beyond shake and bake officerhood.

Mustang in modern usage denotes genuine enlisted XP and then OCS…..

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:01 AM

I still never heard of it before and, as I said, I had the same “alma mater” as he did, just a couple of years later, that is where my “handle” MB4 comes from.

BTW, “Shake and Bake” was the term for NCOOCS.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:08 AM

It still doesn’t ring a bell. Direct appointment (aka, direct commission, I presume) was pretty much the opposite of OCS, doctors, lawyers.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:01 AM

Usage is more common among Marines, and Sailors but the Vietnam generation borrowed it in frequency….

the General if I do recall referred to himself as one in his memoir…..

I’ll try to dig it out.

No General Franks, likely no line to Petrateus….

damn brain melting…

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:09 AM

So, if I understand what you’re saying, only prior-enlisted officers are any good?

Send_Me

I am currently enisted, and I say that is 95% correct for anyone O-1 thru O-3. By the time they reach O-4 the ego of “I am an officer” wears off for most of them and they actualy become interested in mission accomplishment instead of personal accomplishment.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 3:09 AM

So, if I understand what you’re saying, only prior-enlisted officers are any good?

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 3:02 AM

I would take Tommy Franks over Colin Powell any day.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:09 AM

I still never heard of it before and, as I said, I had the same “alma mater” as he did, just a couple of years later, that is where my “handle” MB4 comes from.

BTW, “Shake and Bake” was the term for NCOOCS.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:08 AM

well we are all from Hooah U I just suspect different dates….

I use “shake and bake” for straight out of OSUT supermen who happen to have had degrees and no stick time going to OCS and miraculously becoming newly minted 1st Lous….

can you explain to me a qualitative difference in relation to level of leadership exerted that would make a shake and bake e-4 or 5 any different a beast than a baby O-1 in skill to power?

Not being snarky by the time I was in shake and bake NCOs had been largely gone for a bit.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:11 AM

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 3:02 AM –

In general, as Second Lieutenants, were any good…yes.

In today’s Army, a lot has changed, and we are bringing in a new breed of officer, and enlisted soldier.

My comments on Mustangs are merely based on my observations over the years. Exceptions to the company grade rule…Tommy Franks, or Omar Bradley…a National Guard enlistee, who obtained a National Guard commission. WWII came along. Excellent leader, at the company level and field grade, and best as a general officer.

Pointers are not designed to have careers as company grade officers. Field Grade and beyond is what they are designed for. ROTC, pretty much company grade while on active duty then a move over to the reserves or NG. OCS, direct commissions, enlisted soldiers who received commissions, these were the officers I found, based on my experience, who were most in touch with the troops, the necessity of detail, or expecting excellence from their troops, but above all, never forgetting what being a private was all about. it is at the company level where the importance of direct troop leadership makes all the difference between coming home intact or not coming home at all.

Enough of the thread drift.

Mine is a limited window over a couple decades of observation. Just one window.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:13 AM

Direct appointment of an enlisted soldier in wartime was different than direct appointment of a doctor or JAG, nurse or vet service officer. Were common in WWII, less so in Vietnam, today, very rare.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:04 AM

The only “direct” terms, from 1968-1972, I recall were “Battlefield commission” (to include that, rare) and “Direct commission” (fairly common, usually lawyers or doctors).

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:13 AM

I would take Tommy Franks over Colin Powell any day.

MB4

I’f have to agree. But even more so with Gen Petraeus. But only for battlefield type leadership. A great counter-insurgent planner does not automatically make him smart in other areas such as budgetting and economics.

El Guapo on August 30, 2008 at 3:15 AM

Begala’s piece over at CNN is a hoot. If the MSM decides to tell hometown America they aren’t smart enough to be VP then Barry better get a another set of tires for that bus of his. Cheese and Wine meet Beer and Pretzels.

Limerick on August 30, 2008

You’ve put your finger on a very salient point. There is a tendency for the Dems to look down their patrician noses at the fly over country and may well have their prejudices exposed this fall. They could easily over reach.

I’m not thrilled with this choice for many reasons but this could present an interesting contrast if McCain plays this right. He should expose the snobbery of the left by making the case that govt has become an elitist class which has lost touch with those they govern.

We have a bunch of defacto Mandarin bureaucrats who spend their lives being of government and not of the people.

But any way you go, this has the feel of a gimmick and pandering for the Shillary vote. Given McCain’s age and history of cancer, he adds a huge risk premium to his ticket and clears the deck regarding Obama’s inexperience.

moxie_neanderthal on August 30, 2008 at 3:15 AM

For Obama, Biden, and their supporters, change now means that they need to change their pants because they soiled those that they are wearing.

Face it. Change is coming, and they don’t have an answer for McCain-Palin and their cabinet.

BuckeyeSam on August 30, 2008 at 3:16 AM

Had two soldiers in one of my units, one a PFC, the other a Spec/4, had degrees in areas that were in need at the time. Finance was one. Can’t recall the other. Personnel identified them. They were offered commissions. They accepted. In a week or so they were out of the unit and on their way to Branch Officer Basic School. Got my commission just about the time my enlistment was up. Took a reserve commission, went back to college. Moved up the food chain, as a civilian in a federal agency. Now retired.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:19 AM

clears the deck regarding Obama’s inexperience.

because being inexperienced in the big chair as Prsident from day 1 is superior to MAYBE having to grow into the job….

“logic”

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:20 AM

Back to Palin…

Her accepting the VP slot is going to make it easier for the next generation of Republicans to get inside the tent. Guys like Jindal, or Steele, or J.C. Watts, if only he’d get back in active service, Pawlenty, and a host of others. The Reagan generation is about over. Time to let the young whippersnappers take the reins.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:23 AM

Back to Palin…

Her accepting the VP slot is going to make it easier for the next generation of Republicans to get inside the tent. Guys like Jindal, or Steele, or J.C. Watts, if only he’d get back in active service, Pawlenty, and a host of others. The Reagan generation is about over. Time to let the young whippersnappers take the reins.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:23 AM

Yup…..

part of why I support her.

I think we may be able to break off some non infanticidal feminists.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:25 AM

well we are all from Hooah U I just suspect different dates….

I don’t recall ever hearing Hooah U either back then. Maybe it was used but not much back then.

U.S. Army Field Artillery School, Class 13-69.

I use “shake and bake” for straight out of OSUT supermen who happen to have had degrees and no stick time going to OCS and miraculously becoming newly minted 1st Lous….

Don’t recall OSUT either.

can you explain to me a qualitative difference in relation to level of leadership exerted that would make a shake and bake e-4 or 5 any different a beast than a baby O-1 in skill to power?

NCOCS graduated E5′s and E6′s (top 5%). OCS was 23 weeks. NCOCS was 13?

Not being snarky by the time I was in shake and bake NCOs had been largely gone for a bit.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:11 AM

Both OCS and NCOCS were on the downswing by early 70′s.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:25 AM

Moved up the food chain, as a civilian in a federal agency. Now retired.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:19 AM

DC area?

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:28 AM

OSUT=One Station Unit Training ie a combined basic and ait….

anyway I am a bit younger than you.

Tired going to crash….

ideological purity holds no allure for me when my wife is deployed right now…..not using that as a moral trump card just saying this election is not some moral experimentation lab it is a fight to see if we are an army of near 13 divisions (if square and not triangular) or DC decides “no you really can run the world on 33 brigades”.

I’ll hold my nose and vote McCain and happily vote Palin.

Barry will nuke force structure and procurement…..he wants to kill FCS.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:31 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:28 AM –

Yeah. Spent most of the time overseas, staged out of DC and Germany.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:32 AM

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:32 AM

I was, after getting out, at Crystal City off/on over a period of 7 years. Used to transfer between subway and bus at the Pentagon.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:36 AM

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:13 AM

I appreciate what Blackfive says on this issue. Some get it, some don’t. The primary flaw I’ve seen of the prior-enlisted officers is that they tend to get into the NCO business too much and fail to focus on the officer business. They still think they are “one of the Joes” rather than stepping back, assessing the situation, and leading.
Based upon your initial comments on this, I was about to say: “So much for those guys like Peter Schoomaker, George Patton, Dwight Eisenhower, David Petraeus, Michael Murphy, Scott Smiley, Stanley McChrystal, Norman Schwarzkopf, Hal Moore, John Mulholland…”

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 3:37 AM

A strong conservative heart in reserve beats an Afro-centrist Marxist heart that is in the power seat any day.

Benjamin9 on August 30, 2008 at 3:38 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:36 AM –

I was a bit farther up the river on the Virginia side, off the GW Parkway and Route 123.

BTW, back in the old days before this one station unit training and all the modern stuff, graduated from the 7th Army NCO Academy in Bad Tolz. Few were chosen, fewer graduated.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:38 AM

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:31 AM

How many times did you have KP in basic? 5 or 6 times here. That was the worst part of basic. The rest was easy.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:39 AM

My take on Mr. Frum, who I have met — who isn’t the most friendliest, down-to-earth person I’ve come across btw — and this small town comment

You can take the boy out of downtown Toronto, but you can’t take downtown Toronto out of the boy.

Mr. Frum is one of those people who after he sends his “red meat” to the conservative masses most likely rubs his palms together and says, “That ought play well in the sticks” and then has a good chuckle and heads to the bank. Occassionally he slips or it gets past his editor.

CanadianGuy on August 30, 2008 at 3:42 AM

I was a bit farther up the river on the Virginia side, off the GW Parkway and Route 123.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:38 AM

My memory of the streets there is hazy, when there I just basically drove from here to there as I normally do by having been that way before, but isn’t that near the CIA, or am I remembering wrong?

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:42 AM

How many times did you have KP in basic? 5 or 6 times here. That was the worst part of basic. The rest was easy.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:39 AM

4…I started out hating it, wound up enjoying it when I figured out the female clerical cadre ate last and I was quite happy to see any female at that point even Phyllis Diller the Frankensteins…..

now I hear they don’t ever do KP all contract work.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:43 AM

Send_Me on August 30, 2008 at 3:37 AM –

The officers you list were not by design career company grade officers. Take a company commander…has 3-4 platoon leaders. Those platoon leaders are more important than a Division Commander insofar as the daily training of soldiers. They have no staff officers to depend on for details, but they do have trained NCO’s, nor do they have the luxury of fobbing off tasks to someone else in the chain of command. This is the place where enlisted and officer either coexist tenuously or serve together toward mission accomplishment. The higher one goes, the less and less the daily contact with soldiers. This is what makes our Army better than any other across the board, then, and today. This in no way demeans the accomplishments of General Officers and great leaders…but that small unit leadership…it can make or break a battlaion or brigade or division within minutes of making contact with an opposing force.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:45 AM

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:42 AM –

You remember correctly.

coldwarrior on August 30, 2008 at 3:46 AM

now I hear they don’t ever do KP all contract work.

sven10077 on August 30, 2008 at 3:43 AM

Drat! I should have been born a generation later. Our KP was 24 hours then right back to training.

MB4 on August 30, 2008 at 3:50 AM

Frum says: if I were the Obama campaign: that it’s John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance.

Now I know why Rudy lost. You were within 10 miles of his campaign.

CanadianGuy on August 30, 2008 at 3:52 AM

Here is a nice pic of McCain and Palin at today’s event:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii173/USPx4/Mccain_and_palin.jpg

pseudonominus on August 30, 2008 at 3:53 AM

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