Quote of the day
posted at 10:55 pm on August 28, 2008 by Allahpundit
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“Friendless, isolated and condemned as an aggressor by Europe, Italy and Mussolini had nowhere to turn now but Hitler’s Germany.
Thus, over the fate of an Abyssinian slave empire, Britain drove her faithful World War I ally into the arms of a Nazi dictator Mussolini loathed and had wished to confront beside Britain.”
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Okay…
One does not utter these words without a deep-seated admiration for the man. It’s not unlike recent descriptions of Putin by Russian nationalists and liberal anti-American academics.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 12:17 AM
Well that’s all that matters then:)
Lovely, just lovely. I look forward to that.
Well, it’s hard to get upset frankly. The people that know me, know me. I just don’t want my name to get associated with ideas or things I would never utter. And who knows, registering doesn’t mean posting. I’ve registered at LGF et al, but I only post here. Because of the charming company naturally.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 12:18 AM
“We all know the Brits and French royally effed up the interwar period; what makes them screwing up on how best to use Italy so hard to believe?”
That is exactly right, Metro. The Brits and French screwed up horribly in the inter-war period and the entire ww1 was a massive screw up too. The U.S. NEVER shouldve entered that ghastly war. And you know who was the biggest war-hawk for the absurd WW1? Churchill. Who became Stalin’s best supporter? Churchill. The world isnt always what they taught you kids in high school.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 12:18 AM
That is a brilliant argument.
So? It is not for a third party to rob a country of self-determination.
Look, the US is a nation of Anglo-Saxon origin (largely). Does that give us the right to annex Canada at will because we share ethnicity? No, of course not. Even if you post in caps.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 12:22 AM
MadConserve,
So that quote allows you to say that Buchanan’s interest is in justifying nazis and neo-nazis???? I am not trying to be dramatic, but if that is your justification, you are worse than McCarthy. You are disgusting to accuse somebody of being a Hitler sympathiser when Pat’s entire thesis is how Hitler couldve been beaten and controlled so that the horrible war would not have happened and all these millions of people including the 6 million jews would have lived. I am serious man. You are disgusting.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 12:22 AM
I’m registered there too but don’t have time for more than one. This one is addicting, but also time-consuming because it moves so fast. Of course the company is part of the attraction :)
Sorry for the off-topic, but I’m glad that I was able to convey the info to you.
Entelechy on August 29, 2008 at 12:25 AM
76, you dont know what you are talking about again. Checko was created by the ww1 victors in Versailles. Peoples were forced into made-up countries that France and Britain created as they enjoyed the spoils of their war….which was entirely the opposite of what they promised Woodrow Wilson of how they would behave…the 14 points. The groups of Checko wanted out. The idea was to give the various groups A VOTE TO LEAVE. That is hardly determining another poor countries fate. The Versailles victors are the bad guys here…not the Germans who were cut off of their homeland by the ww1 victors who double crossed stupid Woodrow Wilson.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 12:26 AM
Don’t apologize! I’m very glad to hear that and it best from MDE or RB. Happy not to be blindsided and shocked later.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 12:26 AM
Dude, there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging someone’s talents, even if they’re a bad guy. Stalin was a brilliant strategist. Hitler had courage and a keen sense of other people’s weaknesses. Mao Zedong was also very courageous, and a superb general.
True, they were all highly evil bastards, but it would be dishonest to deny the good qualities that enabled them to do so much harm. If they had all been cowards they would never have managed to destroy so much.
Gaunilon on August 29, 2008 at 12:29 AM
Pat Buchanan just told Nora ODonnell on MSLSD that the Obaminable Showman’s coronation acceptance was the best convention speech he’s ever heard. Olberwomann responded by saying that a Buchanan gush over Obama was perhpas the most telling commentary of the night. Buchanan definitely going feeble.
Western_Civ on August 29, 2008 at 12:32 AM
I see we are going nowhere.
The origin of the country is not relevant. Germany didn’t have the authority, legally or morality, to alter another country’s self-determination. It was standard operation for Germany to send in propagandists to regions to stir up descent. I had thought that was commonly understood.
IF, and this is a big if, they wanted to be broken up, they should have been at the table. Giving up what they didn’t have authority (B/F I mean) to give up, was selling out a country they because of it’s origins, as you said, had some responsibility to. I will also comment that the territory given up handicapped the ability to defend the remainder (as Hitler knew, I’m sure).
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 12:32 AM
So? My Grandfather was fascinated by Hitler and Germany as well. He served with Patton in Europe during WWII.
DFCtomm on August 29, 2008 at 12:34 AM
Argh. Dissent. Bloody spell check.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Roger,
Only a sad and lonely man exhibits such rage….
You should read what you’ve written…
Very sad…
jerrytbg on August 29, 2008 at 12:35 AM
Buchanan was actually right in defending Demjanjuk or israel’s highest court must be a bunch on neo nazi.
See wikipdeia.
The key words are
His conviction for crimes against humanity was later overturned by Israel’s highest court by a finding of a reasonable doubt
John Demjanjuk
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
John Demjanjuk
Born April 3, 1920 (1920-04-03) (age 88)
Ukraine
Occupation Retired auto worker, suspected SS guard
John Demjanjuk, born Ivan Demjanjuk (born April 3, 1920)[1], is an Ukrainian-born retired auto worker and naturalized United States citizen, who gained notoriety after being accused of war crimes.
Contents [hide]
1 Early life
2 Background to alleged Holocaust involvement
3 Trial in Israel
4 New charges and deportation
5 References
6 External links
[edit] Early life
Demjanjuk was born in Dubovye Makharintsy, Kiev Oblast, USSR and migrated to the United States in 1951. He was later sentenced to death for war crimes, based on his identification by Israeli Holocaust survivors as “Ivan the Terrible”, a notorious SS guard at the Treblinka extermination camp during the period 1942-1943 who committed murder and acts of extraordinarily savage violence against camp prisoners. His conviction for crimes against humanity was later overturned by Israel’s highest court by a finding of a reasonable doubt
kangjie on August 29, 2008 at 12:36 AM
76, so you dont think people should have the right to determine their own fate by taking a vote?
Well anyway, we werent talking about checko, we were talking about the war guarantee and what started the whole thread was the slander of Buchanan for making the point that Britain played its hand terribly wrong in the inter-war period and ONE of its BIGGEST errors that would have saved the world 100 million people or so is losing an imporant ally, Italy, and thus in essence forcing them to befriend the awful Hitler which was Benito’s second choice. Pat is right about that and all you dudes in the first half of this thread started basically calling Pat a kook and all this bullcrap and Pat’s point is accurate and all you numskulls had no frickin idea that it is YOUR head that is up your ass….not pat’s.
In summary, Sorry Allah, you do a great job, put putting that quote as the quote of the day was just a set up for the cheap shot dumbasses to attack a man and assinate his charactar while keeping their pathetic heads firmly up their pathetic asses.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 12:40 AM
What is even worst is that some of these so called conservtives on HA fall over Mr marxist himself Christopher Hitchins but jump all over Pat B.
A bunch of David Brooks like folks over here.
Or Hitchins is an ex marxist when he is not writing books on what a tramp Mother Teresa was.
kangjie on August 29, 2008 at 12:42 AM
I do.
I didn’t call him any names. But he is wrong on Georgia, the facts do not bear him out. And his theory on WWII requires selective omission of facts. Which is a pity. It serves no one in the end.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 12:44 AM
The word ’sensible’ was never in Pat Buchanon’s vocabulary. Even back in his Crossfire days he used to routinely say things that were completely psychotic. Everybody gave him a pass because that was the format of the show: just say the exact opposite of whatever the other guy says. Since the other guy was a liberal, a lot of people assumed that must mean Buchanon was a conservative. But that’s nonsense: constantly gainsaying a retard doesn’t magically make someone a genius.
It was never just an act; it was Pat Buchanon’s career. And it still is. I have no idea whether the guy personally believes half the insane crap he says, and I could not possibly care less. Crazy is as crazy does.
logis on August 29, 2008 at 12:55 AM
Excellent point kangjie.
These wonderful neo-cons ally themselves with the athiestic commie Hitch and go after the great man Pat Buchanan. It makes me laugh but it also makes me sick.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 12:58 AM
Absolute bullocks logis.
Would you care to give an example or two of Pat’s “insane crap” or are you content to call him out without a shred of evidence or color. Is that the way you disagree with people…just call them names and dont bother with the example. Thats not the way intelligent people discuss issues.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:01 AM
So, what monumental threat should we invite the Bear to fight alongside us against instead of the Bear joining with which enemy against us?
Assuming that is if we still have it in us to stop PCing ourselves to death long enough to recognize that enemy in a cohesive manner.
Speakup on August 29, 2008 at 1:01 AM
No, he’s just a moron.
seanrobins on August 29, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Haven’t you read the quote that started this discussion… or do you just like Mussolini?
seanrobins on August 29, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Have you not read the thread where we have already discussed Pat’s comment in detail and I have shown that Pat’s point is historically accurate and is not his alone but is a common belief amongst historians of the inter-war period.
Or, did you just start typing. You can read, right?
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:07 AM
Har.
I don’t think anyone has seen that.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 1:11 AM
76, well I can understand you speaking for everybody else. I mean, you all can read minds too so I am not surprised.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Pat Buchanan is a nationalist which is why White nationalists love him so much (check out David Duke’s site sometime, his front page will have two or three Buchanan articles up at any time) though I doubt he’s a full on White Nationalist himself. But he’s not a “conservative” like most HA readers (but I’m not either so big deal) nor is he even a real Republican in the philosophical sense of the word.
I used to be confused by his antics until I realized that and started reading him with a fresh eye. then the dreadfully embarrassing just became the dreadfully wrong headed. The most dangerous thing about Pat, in this Reaganite’s opinion, is that so amny people think of him as representing the rest of the right and that allows us to be painted as xenophobic fascists.
Pat’s love of Hitler, Putin and any other Nationalist strong man proves that he’s not dealing in Conservative ideas, but just good old fashioned populist man-crushes on the kind of leaders he’d like to follow into infamy.
Probably why he like Obama.
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 1:13 AM
Islam.
DFCtomm on August 29, 2008 at 1:14 AM
Why is everybody always defending the guy? What did he ever do for you anyway? The guy’s a moron AND he’s a Truther; he’s also a skunk for all I care. Who gives a rat’s ass?
Seriously though, why bother making any distinctions? Pat Buchanon believes that England is responsible for all the evil of the past century – oh, but maybe he knows that fire can melt steel? Why do we feel any obligation whatsoever to try and filter out what this this lame-brained clown does or does not really believe?
OK, maybe 20 years ago he played the part of one of the most “conservative” people on national TV. Big hairy deal; that’s like saying he was one of the most conservative people in the Politburo.
None of that matters. All that matters is why in the heck is Town Hall publishing his maniacal Neo-Nazi tirades?
logis on August 29, 2008 at 1:16 AM
“Pat’s love of Hitler, Putin and any other Nationalist strong man….”
Rob Taylor, you must love Satan. See how easy that was. Thats all you did. Cheap shot with no evidence. Makes you an ahole. no offense.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:17 AM
Reading VDH is all I need to do to get a proper perspective of Pat.
Not only is Pat wrong, but, as LGF like to point out, he likes to hang around some pretty unsavory fellows. Hey, maybe he could run for president as a Dem!
VolMagic on August 29, 2008 at 1:17 AM
He doesn’t bother me. I mean when he ran as Reform Party, he cashed out for R representation. It’s like Nadar speaking for D’s now.
Mostly I think he likes the devil’s advocate argument. But I do think he loves his country, but his views on Jews and Israel are sketchy to me.
Me? I’m not the one that is saying that Hitler only wanted [ ].
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 1:18 AM
“Why is everybody always defending the guy? What did he ever do for you anyway? The guy’s a moron AND he’s a Truther…”
uh, no and no. However, you are an idiot.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:18 AM
quiet agreement. well said.
trailboss on August 29, 2008 at 1:18 AM
What I find amusing here is that Pat praised the ”O’s” speech tonight and in his column defended Mussolini who at age 18 was a leftwing journalist…umm …could there be a pattern emerging?
jerrytbg on August 29, 2008 at 1:20 AM
“Me? I’m not the one that is saying that Hitler only wanted [ ].”
Well 76, lets just say that that is what he said (irrelevant, I admit), what his contemporaries said (relevant) and what the evidence shows. I think it is pretty well agreed upon that Hitler did NOT want war with Britian and tried to stop a war with Britain without losing face. And Britain played it wrong. And millions paid the price for it.
Think about it man, Britain (and thus all of us) couldve had Italy and Japan on the Allied side. Yeah, I think that is sorta kinda maybe a tiny bit relevant to the point.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:22 AM
Well Roger I do actually love Satan, in my music being an old school Metalhead. Sex, drugs and Satan-that’s what makes music great.
But the issue is that Pat’s writings ARE full of Nationalist ideas, anti-American nonsense and frankly neo-Nazi propaganda. Take this paragraph:
You don’t see a certain leaning in his political though that isn’t at all conservative?
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 1:23 AM
What is interesting about this comment is the point it inadvertently makes. It is true that Hitler reached out peace feelers with Britain post-Paris because he respected the British lion and Churchill. Strength. No one respects the weak. Had they continued in the way that Buchanan supports, Hitler would have had no respect.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 1:26 AM
Pat is getting more and more absurd by the day… I think he thinks he’s far more relevant than he really is…
Kaptain Amerika on August 29, 2008 at 1:28 AM
This isn’t true either. Japan’s expansion wasn’t Hitler dependent. And it was bound to clash with the US over materials for it’s war machine. But that’s a whole another thread.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 1:28 AM
But we’re busy preserving Islam.
Speakup on August 29, 2008 at 1:29 AM
Well, Pat is right about all that.
McCain goes “we are all Georgians”. HA HA!! What a crock of dung. Georgia started the trouble. The truth is there is blame on both sides. It isnt black and white like the McCains say it is. It goes back to a looooong history between many groups on this border.
And there is nothing that I can see that is wrong about Pat wrote. The U.S. bombing of Serbia was absoutely absurd. And yes, I think going into Iraq was a bad idea…and I am glad it is working out better now. and yes, you can argue that Israel over-reacted with 35 days of bombing lebanon. Or you can say, I disagree with the Israel part or I think bombing Serbia was a great idea or I love how we attacked Iraq for the weapons of earth shattering mass destruction but none of you jackballs say that stuff.
Instead you say..”duh, Pat, go away, your a truther, duh, and your dumb and I am smart, duh and I didnt know that most inter-war historians agree that Britian couldve had Benito has an ally and saved a lot of grief in ww2 cause I am a dumbass”.
Thats the difference.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:31 AM
What say you Roger?
jerrytbg on August 29, 2008 at 1:31 AM
,left out the ,
jerrytbg on August 29, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Right. See what I did? I edited out some content, but the gist of your message remained. It can be done, and I did it with Pat and you.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Hey, Buchanan gets all the credit in the world from me for putting out some historical analysis for us to discuss. Saying he’s some Hitler lover sounds like left wing smear hysteria. Being fascinated by what Hitler did does not say anything. My wife, the nicest woman in the world watches all the crime shows on TV. Does this make her a lesser person? No. She’s just fascinated by it.
Fact is, look at what Hitler did. He damn near ruled Europe. That’s not a pedestrian existence. There’s a reason why we still talk about Hitler: he did extraordinary things. And I’m not even saying Buchanan is even fascinated by him. Buchanan is fascinated by HISTORY. I can relate; I am too.
I won’t play the idiotic game of having to denounce Hitler. Buchanan shouldn’t have to either. It’s moronic. We’re all adults here.
Hitler is probably the most famous world figure of the last 75 years and part of some of the most intriguing geopolitical events of the last century.
I’ll gladly read Buchanan’s takes on history, even if I disagree, than a bunch of partisan hacks bitch and moan about somebody’s character instead of firing back on the opinions presented.
Roger Waters is right: Back up your claims or get the fukk out of the discussion.
Metro, out.
Metro on August 29, 2008 at 1:33 AM
A guy banging his head against the mattress walls of an asylumn can have a pattern. But it doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
I’d like to take a different approach: Why should we take this guy seriously as a conservative?
This isn’t 1982, there are a thousand well-known and clearly sane conservatives in the media today. Why is this guy even still alive, let alone getting published?
logis on August 29, 2008 at 1:33 AM
Yep, yep, and yep.
Metro on August 29, 2008 at 1:35 AM
I dont know jerrytbg. Maybe O gave a great speech. You can give a “great speech” in terms of great delivery etc and disagree with the philosophy.
Pat is conservative. He is pro life. He is anti tax. He hates big government. If you think Pat Buchanan is going to VOTE for Obama, then you need professional help…or more likely you need to learn to read.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:35 AM
You’re an isolationist, a Ronulan, and probably a fan of Alex Jones.
You argue against America not because you see value in it, but to make yourself look somehow intelligent. Were you in person, you’d be yelling and screaming, indicated by your demands for people to abdicate some sort of faux defeat to you…on the internet.
*snicker*
Ohhhh, what dregs open registration lets in.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 1:36 AM
Israel overreacted? If part of the government of Mexico kidnapped some of our border agents and were launching rockets into our cities would it be an overreaction for us to take out as much of that armies capability as possible?
Geogia was fired on by rebels in territory the world recognizes as belonging to them. The Russian charges of civilian deaths by that action is said to have been overblown by the factor of ten even by the Russians. But more importantly Georgia is our ally while Russia is arming communist regimes in the Americas.
It is a black and white issue. Do we accept unchecked communist expansionism in Europe and Latin America or not. I’m a Reaganite so I say absolutely not.
What do Buchanites say? That we should watch Putin carve up eastern Europe and admire him from afar?
And why the personal attacks? I’d be more offended if I knew what a “jackball” was. Is that Buchananese for people who aren’t white?
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 1:40 AM
Hey Rob Taylor
Why are you reading David Duke sites and then referring this to us to go read?. We are not racist so why would we want to go there? I’m just askin but it sounds like you have some issues like uh…. projecting something. I guess that is what you meant by not being a conservtive like other HAers.
Actually you do more to paint us as xenophobic fascists by being a dumbass
I seriously doubt he likes Obama he was just referring to the speech the same way every other pundit in the media did. It require a little complex thinking to gather that so that must be why you missed it..
kangjie on August 29, 2008 at 1:41 AM
“You’re an isolationist, a Ronulan, and probably a fan of Alex Jones.
You argue against America not because you see value in it, but to make yourself look somehow intelligent. Were you in person, you’d be yelling and screaming, indicated by your demands for people to abdicate some sort of faux defeat to you…on the internet.
*snicker*”
An isolationist? Really? Only if George Washington and Andrew Jackson were isolatonists.
A Ronulan? Really? If you are reffering to Ron Paul. Then you continue to be a dumbass because I cant stand Ron Paul.
I like Alex Jones? Really? Who is Alex Jones?
I argue against America? Really? You are absurd. There is not point talking to somebody as stupid as you.
If I were in person, I would be yelling and screaming? Really? You can tell that? wow, you are amazing. You are also wrong, again. I dont yell and scream.
snicker? Really? You are the joke. You sound dumb. I would calmly tell you that if you were here in person too.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:42 AM
Bill Buckley had Buchanan’s number.
***
Long after he chased the Birchers out of NR, Buckley found himself forced to confront the issue again. When longtime colleagues Pat Buchanan and Joseph Sobran used their bully pulpits on the right to bash Israel and stigmatize Jews for their support for the state, it was again Buckley who took on the haters.
Buckley repudiated Sobran’s writing, which he labeled anti-Semitic, and pushed him off the magazine’s masthead.
As the issue continued to percolate in the aftermath of the Persian Gulf war in December 1991, he devoted an entire issue of the magazine to an essay titled “In Search of Anti-Semitism” (which was also the title of the book he later published on the same subject), in which he took on Buchanan, who was preparing an insurgent run for the White House against the first President Bush.
His conclusion was damning: “I find it impossible to defend Pat Buchanan against the charge that what he did and said during the period under examination amounted to anti-Semitism, whatever it was that drove him to say and do it,” Buckley wrote.
Though Buchanan would continue to snipe away on television, it was largely Buckley’s doing that he and others like him would do so from outside a perch in one of our two major parties rather than inside it.
***
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 1:42 AM
They make the argument that ANY conflict where the United States took part, but was not directly attacked on home soil, should never have occurred and shows how horrible the US is.
Well, except for 9/11. But that’s because either it was an inside job, or that we went after the wrong people.
Well, and kinda WW2, because we deserved Pearl Harbor after the oil embargo with Japan.
Well, and kinda WW1 because…
It never ends with these people.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 1:45 AM
I’ll say it: Fascism. Read Liberal Fascism if you haven’t.
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 1:46 AM
They want to legalize drugs and abolish the American Military. They claim they want to cut social spending, but I always get the very strong impression that all they really want is to avoid paying taxes.
These guys have WAY more in common with the neo-hippies than with us. So why don’t they ever go to Kos and ask those guys to give up on that pesky abortion bugga-boo?
But they never do. Instead, they keep trying to convince us to give up everything else.
logis on August 29, 2008 at 1:47 AM
“It is a black and white issue. Do we accept unchecked communist expansionism in Europe and Latin America or not. I’m a Reaganite so I say absolutely not.
What do Buchanites say? That we should watch Putin carve up eastern Europe and admire him from afar?
And why the personal attacks? I’d be more offended if I knew what a “jackball” was. Is that Buchananese for people who aren’t white?
Rob Taylor,
How can you say its a black and whit issue? You clearly dont know the history. Did you know many conservatives felt very uncomfortable with the “we are all Georgians” nonsense. Probably not….you sound very naive and uneducated.
Personal attacks? Really? That is all that you jerk-offs did in the first page of this thread. And the worst part was, not one of them, including you, had the SLIGHTEST idea what Pat was talking about regarding Britain and Italy and you hadnt the SLIGHTEST idea that it was a well known and fairly accepted opinion. You all just got personal. So, I dont want to get personal but you can go ahead and bite me.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:48 AM
Intellectually dishonest. You are in an entirely different country than they were. You are in a world superpower. They were in a newborn nation.
Funny, since you’ve made about every single talking point he has about American foreign policy in the last century.
Riiiight.
And you are a master internet debator, as evidenced by the sections I quoted. I salute you, John Birch.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 1:49 AM
And you clearly think you know a lot more than you actually do.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 1:50 AM
And the Red on Red fire continues.
Glad Rove and his shills alerted us to watch the parties for unity.
alphie on August 29, 2008 at 1:51 AM
kangjie:
I’m Bi-racial and I run a blog. As such I’m interested in racism on the web. Are you saying pointing out that Buchanan makes the rounds on Nazi websites makes me a fascist because I should never have gone to those sites in the first place?
Seems a strange defense. I guess the core of your argument is that I wasn’t supposed to see that site so I shouldn’t use it to judge Pat?
Isn’t the real question why Buchanan seems to find so much common ground with other anti-American kooks?
And again, why the insults? Do you guys have that much of a hard-on for Buchanan that criticism of him gets you that angry?
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 1:52 AM
Well, I know that I know more than you MadisonConservative. I dont think you have made a single historical point. nil.
At least 76 made some historical points. You made zero. That is Z-E-R-O. So, of course I think that I know more than you which would not be hard.
And for sure, Pat Buchanan has more knowledge in his ass than you have in your entire being dude.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:52 AM
“And again, why the insults? Do you guys have that much of a hard-on for Buchanan that criticism of him gets you that angry?”
Once again, Rob Taylor does the a-hole thing. The entire first page of this debate was a bunch of d*ckheads making personal attacks and charactar asassination of Buchanan and then when somebody strikes back mostly with historical fact with a spice of personal attack, then the people were all stupid and personally attacking Buchanan get all weepy.
Dry those tears dude. You want to talk history. We talk history. You want to make personal attacks, we can do that too. Given that you dont know any of the history, it makes making personal attacks against you very EASY….cause you sound dumb.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:56 AM
Roger:
If you read the comments you’d see i just cam in. I haven’t insulted you yet, moron.
And my point isn’t about whether or not “many conservatives” felt anything about McCain’s comments, it’ about whether we abandon the Reagan doctrine or not.
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 1:56 AM
Why Pat Buchanan needs a whole lot of shunning, in two photographs.
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 1:57 AM
THIS IS A SMART MAN.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 1:57 AM
Rob Taylor,
I did not say you did personally attack me? You can read, right? I said a whole bunch of people personally attacked Buchanan and didnt have the foggiest clue what they were talking about.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 1:59 AM
Well…At least your responds was somewhat civil…
Like you, I don’t buy he’s the devil’s advocate nor do I feel he’s a conservative like a Teddy R.
He is certainly an isolationist and I am not. I believe the US should lead and the rest of the world follows…even if we have to drag them kicking and screaming. Enough for now, I’ll try to catch you on another thread.
Btw, no comment on the 18 yr old journalist? An emerging omission? Lol!! Just joking.
jerrytbg on August 29, 2008 at 2:00 AM
Hell, I was only about 10 when that happened, but I still remember seeing him talk about it on Firing Line.
So who’s the bigger conservative? By Ronulan types, Buchanan is. If one of the founders of the conservative movement isn’t conservative, who is?
The fact is that Buchanan and his ilk are the leftovers of the Bircher movements, which splintered off and seeded the likes of the National Front in England, and The Order.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 2:02 AM
Well, I am going on vacation tomorrow, so I gotta pack.
In summary, I hate it when people attack good people and they dont have the foggiest idea what they are talking about.
That is wrong and unchristian. Its not nice. Page one was filled with people attacking a great cold warrior for the U.S. Just a bunch of uninformed name calling.
Please repent and grow up and learn something. Nothing worse than a dumb person attacking a person smarter than them.
thank you and good night
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 2:02 AM
No, I can’t.
Whoops, I mean, WHAT DOES THIS SAY?
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 2:03 AM
Pat Buchanan spanks “Pagan America” in Arab News
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 2:03 AM
I’M SORRY, PLEASE FORGIVE ME.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 2:04 AM
There it is.
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 2:04 AM
Gee, and look at some of the other great headlines joining Pat:
But hey, it’s not about the company he keeps.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 2:06 AM
HOLY COW! It is without absolutely any sarcasm that I ask if you know what Ad hominem means? Not to say others aren’t guilty but you might wanna chill out a little or anything credible you have to say sorta gets lost.
Conservative Gunman on August 29, 2008 at 2:07 AM
Roger
So if other people attack Pat Buchanan I should just accept that you’d then attack me? Really? That’s what you’re saying?.
In other words I was right, attacks on Pat drive you into such a frenzy all reasoned debate has to wait while you fight for the honor of your fantasy boyfriend.
I’ll let you get back to gazing at that poster sized photo of Pat you’ve got on the wall while imagining him whispering “The Jews run the banking system” in you ear.
Well, I better go before somebody else calls Pat stupid “forcing” you to call me an idiot. But have fun dying alone by the way. Just a prediction, my pipeline to Satan has benefits.
Oh, and Pat Buchanan is a racist hack whose writings would fit in better with the DailyKos crowd. Townhall should be ashamed of publishing him.
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 2:10 AM
Thanks for that link.
What I find intellectually offensive is not that he holds those ideas mentioned in that article, but that he peddles them over seas. It is the equivalent of Kerry, or Pelosi now, criticizing Bush foreign policy while talking to Assad. It’s disturbing. If you want to make chances, then vote, etc, but this appeal to international opinion by castigating America is irritating. Moreover, it’s disrespectful to our system.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 2:11 AM
Oh, and Pat Buchanan is a racist hack whose writings would fit in better with the DailyKos crowd. Townhall should be ashamed of publishing him.
Rob Taylor on August 29, 2008 at 2:10 AM
Daily Kos has already found him.
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 2:13 AM
Did you ever stop and imagine what would happen if an Internet forum were a physical place?
I mean, a guy like this wanders in off the street into somewhere a dozen people are sitting around having a conversation – and he just starts insulting pretty much everyone there for no reason anyone’s able to quite figure out.
What’s up with that? Is this a personality disorder that can only fester in a virtual environment? In real life, there are feedback systems – ranging all the way from laughter to tasers. But on the Internet, someone without internal checks and balances will run completely open-loop. A narcissist will type blithely away; utterly immune to black-and-white responses; assuming that this next keystroke will be the one; that everyone will suddenly see the foolishness of their ways and grasp what had heretofore seemed crystalline clear to him – yet oddly elusive to everyone else.
Somebody must have done a study on this. I don’t think there’s any way this can be a GOOD thing; such endless repetition could never cure a disorder. But does it make it worse? Will the person scurry away from the slightest real-life confrontation – becoming more and more withdrawn until he simply becomes dysfunctional? Or does this kind of problem tend to keep building up until it finally results in some real trouble?
logis on August 29, 2008 at 2:17 AM
Not a disorder. Merely a manifestation of insecurities, rage, and hatred in the form of a persona that is looking for a rumble. Some of these people have barely interacted with human beings in real life, and this is their chance to be a virtual alpha.
Then again, in Madison, I’ve seen some real winners on State Street and Mifflin. So they are out there. It is funny when they go too far, though.
MadisonConservative on August 29, 2008 at 2:23 AM
Great phrase. You must work that one into other comments.
—–
Night all.
Spirit of 1776 on August 29, 2008 at 2:23 AM
A final brilliant comment from the brilliant Rob Taylor:
“…But have fun dying alone by the way. Just a prediction, my pipeline to Satan has benefits.”
I am bringing my wonderful wife and three daughters with me on vacation. I dont plan on dying alone. But that final comment from you pretty much summarizes you doesnt it?
Good night.
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 2:28 AM
Oh, please don’t post that the pos Demjanjuk is not guilty. His conviction was overturned in Israel because it’s supreme court is filled with moonbats and on an evidentiary technicality. He has subsequently been proven to be a death camp guard at several death factories, chiefly Sobibor.
Blake on August 29, 2008 at 2:37 AM
Safe journey to you and your family.
RushBaby on August 29, 2008 at 2:48 AM
42.
Andrew D on August 29, 2008 at 2:57 AM
Roger Waters is a cute Larouchie. Evil Britain. Evil evil evil Rothchilds (sp). Evil royal family. Evil Nixon. Evil Fed.
You guys can catch up with his history in front of your local courthouse. Bound to a a Larouchie around to help out.
pc on August 29, 2008 at 4:40 AM
Buchanan is a xenophobe.
Cr4sh Dummy on August 29, 2008 at 4:48 AM
Worse, he’s an MSNBC talking head.
It’s long since time conservatives should care about his pronouncements. Let’s ignore Buchanan and leave him to his fate.
SteakRules on August 29, 2008 at 4:58 AM
Allow me to correct myself: the Israeli Supreme Court did not reverse his conviction but reversed his death sentence.
Blake on August 29, 2008 at 5:25 AM
NEVER give the Britts or french a map and a crayon. They will put A with B into the middle of C group and create enclaves.Real estate agents and developers also do this. The UN will of course observe, report and stay shocked.
Not big on Biden but Mesapotamia is at least three groups who really love each other and all the folks nearby.Then we are told that there are Persians and arabs. Now Putin the bold wants to re absorb Georgia.It seems that it always the same, Land ,Women. goats/pigs,we fight.
Col.John Wm. Reed on August 29, 2008 at 7:16 AM
I guess the fact that Hitler and Mussolini shared identical ideologies was completely lost on these tools.
MarkTheGreat on August 29, 2008 at 7:17 AM
You are absolulutly correct but at the end of the day we were better off.
Italy helped out the allies more by being allied to axis.
The Italians were worthless in battle but still consumed chow and supplies.
TheSitRep on August 29, 2008 at 7:34 AM
Roger Waters on August 29, 2008 at 12:22 AM
And what exactly was wrong with McCarthy? Time is only proving that he was right, the same way it will with G.W. Bush (mostly on those things Democrats (and the world’s left) attack him for, which happen to be the things that make the left look as bad as it really is).
mile66 on August 29, 2008 at 8:19 AM
With a few exceptions, this thread is a mirror of some of the most laughable “discussions” of history that are stacked to the roof over at Kos.
To much bating and too many otherwise sensible folks taking the bait….
Waterboy on August 29, 2008 at 8:26 AM
Agreed. I come to Hot Air becuase for the most part (this thread a glaring exception) the threads are usually CONVERSATIONS, with folks batting back and forth. As I said above, this is more like a KOS thread or a YouTube comment thread.
Please folks at pajama media, don’t let this site degrade this way.
Waterboy on August 29, 2008 at 8:32 AM
My high school history teacher seemed far from left and I was taught that Italy didn’t like their deal after WWI so they switched sides (cliff notes version), but whatever this has nothing to do with that. This is just the same schizm that has always existed in the Conservative movement after Reagan, the divide between those who bend over for Rockefeller Republicans Bush I, Dole, and Bush II on a daily basis, defending them until the end, and those that would actually like to see the size of government shrink someday, and since they aren’t staring at their own duodendum, they can see that people like Bushes and Dole wont give you that .
Buchanan has his issues, he will always defend Nixon and is bitter that Nixon got repremanded for his Executive overstep, so he is like Cheney and Rumsfeld in that regard, which is at the heart of the matter with regards to Cheney’s insistence on shredding the fourth amendment and setting forth the surveillance state, but on the whole Buchanan has been pretty good.
LevStrauss on August 29, 2008 at 8:39 AM
Those ideologies were well received here as well. The aristocracy in this country were in awe of the fascist nations efficiency and “improvements” in their society. And if we are to take Smedley Butler at his word, people wanted to actually put it into practice here as well.
LevStrauss on August 29, 2008 at 8:45 AM
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