Both Pelosi and Biden who were chastised by Catholic Archbishops for their prolife stances show no signs of contrition, and continue to insist their positions are not controversial.
First, Biden, who claims that his beliefs may not be in line, but it…

If you’re going to say something this stupid and domonstrably false, don’t be surprised when someone calls you on it. I don’t know if you’re an ex-Catholic with a grudge or a never-was without a clue, but I’m guessing that John Travolta would love to have you join his church. Or maybe the Unitarians or…oh, just stick with the atheists. They aren’t going anywhere soon.

No one’s saying that non-Catholics ought to be applying what the Vatican says as to who to vote for. But for Catholics, it’s an important issue. Not that someone IS Catholic or isn’t, but that they’re saying they are but are not.

The Church draws a severe distinction between an opinion regarding open borders and the absolute condemnation of abortion. Why equivocate the two positions?

The borders issue is more of a referral to situations most blatantly represented by the (now gone)Berlin Wall. Catholic teaching states that nations have a right to defend themselves, and that capital punishment can be a form of self-defense – but procured abortion is always evil.
Pelosi and Biden can have any opinion they want. Their constituents can vote for them. If they make up Catholic teaching to get votes, and we have the glorious freedom to correct them.

1. The death penalty is allowed under Catholic doctrine.

Even though they no longer have capital punishment at the Vatican. . . it was only 50 years ago that they changed it. So that’s OK. Anyway, as the earlier post. It’s a shame that you look to the Vatican to justify all of your beliefs.

The Catholic Church supports open borders. Is Malkin a ‘bad Catholic’ for being for secure borders?

Again, the fact that this debate is even happening is extremely alarming to me. But of course, you can just dismiss me as a bigot. . . even though you’d be angry if a Muslim (or Protestant) official was doing it.

The reason that the justice in the Supreme Court brought up the phrase ’separation between Church and state’ was because he didn’t want the influence of the Vatican (specifically – but any church in general) in DC. Catholics want the Vatican to control DC. Again, this is alarming to me.

We are a Christian nation, but we have a SECULAR government. . . and that is a VERY good thing.

This discussion would be like a Muslim debating sharia and whether or not something is against Islam. It’s very troubling to even have this debate in a POLITICAL forum. This is for your church. Again, when an ‘evangelical’ (whatever that means) talks about it there is gnashing of teeth. But when Catholics talk about it, it’s oh yeah, let’s find out who is the ‘best’ Catholic.

I don’t care what any religion thinks about abortion. We have a secular government. If Catholic politicians are going to look to the Vatican for guidance within the government they should not be elected. Nor should a Muslim who wants to implement sharia on other non-muslims. Abortion is murder.

If murder is against the law, abortion should be too. It doesn’t matter whether or not your church thinks it is a sin.

Again, it’s easy to dismiss my bringing this up as ‘bigotry’, but I’m quite alarmed at the depth of which Catholic dogma is discussed in this political topic. Discuss Catholic dogma in your Church, not in the halls of congress.

I HOPE nobody is voting for someone because they are a ‘good Catholic’ or not. That might just be bigotry against non-Catholics. I’m sure that’s never happened before has it?

Throughout the centuries there has been debate on “ensoulment”, i.e. when a child gets his soul. However, the Church has never held the position that abortion from the time of conception was not a grave sin.

Tomblvd on August 27, 2008 at 8:51 PM

It was a sin relating to the missuse of human sexuality. Most would agree there is an order of magnitude difference between that and murdering another unique being.

Pope John Paul II called the death penalty “cruel and unnecessary” and in 1999 persuaded Mel Carnahan to commute a specific death sentence.

If the Vatican were to increase pressure on American politicians to reduce the use of the death penalty, how does a Catholic governor balance his parish priest, on one side, barring him from communion with, on the other side, the oath of office he took following his election?

How fun would it be to have that reported on by Olberdork and watch him explode on TV. Could be entertaining. Get the popcorn.

He even goes on to tell CSM’s Gail Russell Chaddock that his views on social issues fall completely within Catholic doctrine…….

Looks like Nancy Pelosi has been told, very nicely, to quiet down. That, after she has effectively told her church leadership that they were wrong. Interesting. I keep forgetting which ones have the theology degrees. After all the Pelosi craziness,…

1. The death penalty is allowed under Catholic doctrine. So a Catholic who supports it is not a hypocrite.

2. Throughout the centuries there has been debate on “ensoulment”, i.e. when a child gets his soul. However, the Church has never held the position that abortion from the time of conception was not a grave sin.

The church finds this so important that the catechism — the compendium of Catholic doctrine available for anyone to peruse and educate themselves — makes this clear in three different places. In paragraph 2271, the doctrine of the Church notes “the moral evil of every procured abortion”. In paragraph 2322, abortion is called a “criminal” practice and reaffirms that every child has the right to life at conception.

This isn’t just “any teaching” of the Church. The catechism makes plain that this is fundamental doctrine, and that failure to abide by it makes one a de facto ex-Catholic.

Right, exactly. And reason (enough) why the likes of Kerry and others such as these (Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, etc.) really should be denied Holy Communion, if not ex-communicated when they attempt to place themselves among the Church, as long as they are promoters of the heretical notions they engage in.

All of which, by the way, is sincerely associated with the Vatican’s positions on each issue named in this Guide.

Tough principles, tough to maintain these principles as a Catholic but this is the faith. Biden’s misleading people as he himself is misled in alleging that “the Church” is “bigger” (big enough) to accommodate his profanity and heretical claims.

My take as a Catholic and a Christian on these issues.

Excellent column, Ed.

That’s it.

“My views are totally consistent with Catholic Marxist social doctrine…”–Greasy Joe

At a personal level, his faith provides him peace, he says. “I get comfort from carrying my rosary, going to mass every Sunday. It’s my time alone,” he (Biden) says.

Right, just as I wrote here (previous comments ^^): the “Church” is some sort of humanist event for these Cafeteria Catholics. Biden gets his Sunday vacation time, that’s why he cherishes the Church, right.

I can’t begin to express just how monstrous I find Biden’s remarks to be, as also those related and similar by Nancy Pelosi.

Biden credits his Catholicism for his focus on “abuse of power”, but shrugs off the abortion debate as a minor controversy. He even goes on to tell Gail Russell Chaddock that his views on social issues fall completely within Catholic doctrine:

And when Catholics disagree with this very same type of Cafeteria Catholicism, we get the hate-speech: we’re “fundamentalists,” we’re “the right wing,” we’re “trying to tell everyone else what to do/believe…” and similar nutty stuff.

The thing about the Cafeteria Catholics (Biden, Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry, etc.) is that they have this sort of “rationalize-to-infinity” on all issues that don’t FIRST fit into the LEFTIST POLITICAL GOALS. Their “faith” and “belief” is, actually, their politics, the HUMANIST “movement,” not Christianity.

I get the impression that there are a lot of spiritually unwatered, unfed people who shuffle along througout their lives “attending” the Catholic Church, telling people they’re “Catholic,” going to watch the “pretty ceremonies” and such, yet, their affiliation begins and ends with the Church as to what suits their political goals, while the Church is moreorless regarded as a club or membership issue (but with candles).

To minimize abortion as Biden has done…and as Pelosi does (justifying her political beliefs, which are heretical in the Church, as justified not by the Bible OR the Church, but by an individual author [who wrote "spiritual" content])…well, this gives Catholics a very bad name.

Let’s see, Chris Matthews claims he’s “Catholic,” Pfleger does, etc. Yet they discard the most difficult to respect positions held by the Church and continue to promote themselves as “Catholics,” thus compounding their moral complications (misleading others on these issues is not a simple thing, nor excused simply).

I often have the same questions about those Jews who lay claim to being “Jewish” yet who are “Reformists” and discard a lot of what Jewish Orthodoxy is. Same goes for many Liberals today who lay claim to being “Catholic” and yet who reject the Catholic faith in reality as to specific beliefs that their political views can’t accommodate.