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Biden follows Pelosi in mangling Catholic doctrine on abortion

posted at 5:20 pm on August 27, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Joe Biden supposedly will attract Catholics to the Democratic ticket, but not if he follows Pope Nancy Pelosi for doctrinal guidance.  In a profile of Biden for the Christian Science Monitor, Biden credits his Catholicism for his focus on “abuse of power”, but shrugs off the abortion debate as a minor controversy.  He even goes on to tell Gail Russell Chaddock that his views on social issues fall completely within Catholic doctrine:

“The animating principle of my faith, as taught to me by church and home, was that the cardinal sin was abuse of power,” he said in an interview with the Monitor. “It was not only required as a good Catholic to abhor and avoid abuse of power, but to do something to end that abuse.”

The issues that have most engaged Biden in public life draw on those teachings, from halting violence against women to genocide. At a personal level, his faith provides him peace, he says. “I get comfort from carrying my rosary, going to mass every Sunday. It’s my time alone,” he says.

But the interface of faith and policy has long been problematic for Catholic presidential hopefuls. Governor Smith faced withering criticism over whether Catholic politicians are obliged by their church to take policy orders from Rome. John F. Kennedy famously disavowed “outside religious pressures or dictates,” swept the Catholic vote, and won the presidency. By the time another J.F.K. from Massachusetts ran for president in 2004, the ground had shifted. Sen. John F. Kerry lost the Catholic vote because many of his faith questioned whether he was Catholic enough, given his strong support for abortion rights.

But Biden believes he can bridge much of that divide. “My views are totally consistent with Catholic social doctrine,” says Biden, a six-term Democratic senator from Delaware. “There are elements within the church who say that if you are at odds with any of the teachings of the church, you are at odds with the church. I think the church is bigger than that.”

Once again, Biden can indulge himself in whatever self-deception he desires, but he should check with his priest before essentially lying about the doctrine of the Church.  Joe Biden is a self-professed pro-choice politician, and his record demonstrates it.  He received a 100% rating from NARAL in 2006, 2005, 2004, and a 75% in 2007.  He got zeroes from the National Right to Life committee in 2005-6 and 2001-2, getting a 17% in 2003-4.  NARAL enthusiastically endorsed Biden this week for the Democratic ticket.

The Catholic Church is very, very clear about the issue of abortion, and it rises to the level of doctrine, not just opinion.  In fact, a reading of paragraph 2272 of the catechism will demonstrate just how fundamental the issue of abortion is for the Catholic Church:

Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

This means that anyone who formally cooperates in abortion places themselves in a state of excommunication with the church, not the other way around.  The Catholic Church considers the sacred nature of human life and its relationship with the Creator so basic that one cannot facilitate abortions (ie, through legalizing and subsidizing them) and remain in communion with the Church.

The church finds this so important that the catechism — the compendium of Catholic doctrine available for anyone to peruse and educate themselves — makes this clear in three different places.  In paragraph 2271, the doctrine of the Church notes “the moral evil of every procured abortion”.  In paragraph 2322, abortion is called a “criminal” practice and reaffirms that every child has the right to life at conception.

This isn’t just “any teaching” of the Church.  The catechism makes plain that this is fundamental doctrine, and that failure to abide by it makes one a de facto ex-Catholic.

Ironically, Biden rather presumptuously infers that his critics on this issue are just ignorant:

“There are those who say that Catholics should be robots: There’s a formula, and if we don’t follow that formula, we shouldn’t present ourselves for communion on Sunday morning, says Chris Korzen, executive director of Catholics United. “That’s an absolute misuse of Catholic teaching,” he says, referring to the call of several Catholic bishops in the 2004 campaign to deny communion to Senator Kerry and other Catholic politicians who did not vote in line with Vatican teachings on abortion.

Without taking a position on how Catholics should vote, Biden makes a case for staying connected to the church and its culture. “If I were an ordained priest, I’d be taking some issue with some of the more narrow interpretations of the Gospel being taken now,” Biden says. “But my church is more than 2,000 years old. There’s always been a tug of war among prelates and informed lay members.”

Abortion-rights advocates have used the gestalt argument for decades as a diversion.  I addressed this in an earlier post:

Issues of [e]conomic fairness do appear in the Catholic catechism, although only in general terms. The teachings do not prescribe a certainty of policy as Catholic or un-Catholic. Paragraphs 1938, 1941, and 1947 emphasize the need for action by Catholics to reduce sinful inequalities between the rich and the poor, but generally casts this in rather stark terms, with little resemblance to the quality of life of those deemed poor in the US:

  • 43% of the poor own their homes, and the average home is a three-bedroom house with a garage and 1.5 bathrooms
  • Over two-thirds of households have two rooms per occupant, which belies the notion of overcrowding
  • 80% of the poor have air conditioning
  • Almost 75% own one car; 31% own two or more
  • The average living space for the American poor is larger than the average space for all people in Paris, Vienna, and London, among other cities in Europe

Furthermore, the catechism talks mostly about personal work to resolve sinful inequalities, not the establishment of a government mandate that operates under a redistributionist policy.  It doesn’t forbid it, either, and that’s really the point.  Both [political] parties want to help Americans live well, but have different philosophies on how to get there.  Voters in general should support the candidate who best represents their own approach to these issues, but that has nothing to do with Catholicism.

The Church calls us to action on social issues, but for the most part does not endorse or proscribe specific policies.  Wide ranges of choices, from free markets to hard-socialist systems, can exist within Catholic theology.  Faith can inform these choices in different ways.

However, abortion gets treated very differently in the Church.  The teachings on this point are absolute: abortion is a grave and mortal sin, and excommunication happens automatically when an abortion is either procured or formally facilitated by a Catholic.  All social issues are not equal in that sense, and the attempt to reduce the fundamental nature of Catholic doctrine on this point to a matter of ambiguous policy is dishonest in the extreme.

Biden either exposes his ignorance or his dishonesty when he claims that his pro-choice record falls completely within the doctrine of the Catholic Church.  Like Nancy Pelosi, he either needs to learn Catholic doctrine or find a church which fits his perspective.

Addendum: Just to anticipate an argument that arose in earlier threads, the Catholic Church also opposes contraception, at least artificial methods of contraception.  That gets two mentions in the catechism, paragraphs 2370 and 2399.  Note, though, that the Church does not apply excommunication as a latae sententiae consequence of using contraception, and in fact never mentions a penalty at all, other than being in sin.  That demonstrates the seriousness with which the Church takes abortion; it considers it a form of murder.

Update: I forgot to hat-tip Insight Scoop for the article.


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A leftist’s world is often the world they want to believe in, not what’s actually there. That in mind, it fits.

TheUnrepentantGeek on August 27, 2008 at 5:23 PM

“but shrugs off the abortion debate as a minor controversy”

Sure! Its just a BABY for Christ’s sake!

Star20 on August 27, 2008 at 5:23 PM

I wonder if the Obama camp is going to ask Biden to shut up like they did Pelosi? Naw, never gonna happen.

Torch on August 27, 2008 at 5:24 PM

Clueless Catholics for Obama-Biden! Sadly, they are out there…sigh. (And I say that as a lifelong Catholic)

Dariaanne on August 27, 2008 at 5:24 PM

I can’t understand how a parent can preach the Right To Choose TM in the presence of their own children.

leftnomore on August 27, 2008 at 5:24 PM

be careful or he’ll assault you with his rosary beads….

*meaning they are a stage prop for him

sven10077 on August 27, 2008 at 5:25 PM

HERE WE GO AGAIN….

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on August 27, 2008 at 5:28 PM

“This is not the Catholicism I thought I knew”

TheUnrepentantGeek on August 27, 2008 at 5:28 PM

Zomg. Democrats are pro abortion. What’s the story here? Is anyone shocked?

lorien1973 on August 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM

hey lay off joe dont ya know what his IQ is,if not call him he will tell ya about how smart he is,

rico101 on August 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Joe appeals to the Catholic CEOs.

Those who come to mass on Christmas and Easter Only.

His views are pretty mainline, in CEO circles.

Mew

acat on August 27, 2008 at 5:31 PM

“If I were an ordained priest, I’d be taking some issue with some of the more narrow interpretations of the Gospel being taken now,” Biden says.

I daresay, Mr Biden, you would then no longer be an ordained priest.

Vashta.Nerada on August 27, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Anyone else get the feeling looking at that pic that the Democrats maybe spend a litle too much time playing table football in the ole senate foreign relations room? Classic.

He’s no doubt an expert on that too..

saus on August 27, 2008 at 5:31 PM

be careful or he’ll assault you with his rosary beads….

*meaning they are a stage prop for him

sven10077 on August 27, 2008 at 5:25 PM

I understand they’re very useful for garrotting people who insist on continuing to bring up trivialities such as foundational doctrine. I can’t say that based on personal experience, though, as I always use mine for, you know, saying the rosary.

Stefka on August 27, 2008 at 5:32 PM

How can I take Hot Air seriously is this is the kind of garbage analysis I get?

Tommy_G on August 27, 2008 at 2:26 PM

Wow, Ed. I’m gonna have to read that again – slowly. For those of you agonizing over the occasional “fun” threads, you have this type of analysis to pour over. Read and learn; I know I am.

Mr_Magoo on August 27, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Yet “The Church” refuses to excommunicate these heretics. Perhaps “The Church” should have the courage of it’s convictions. Otherwise one must assume that they are granting tacit approval.

ronsfi on August 27, 2008 at 5:33 PM

Next they’ll be telling us that “carpenter” was just another way of saying “abortionist” during Jesus’ time.

It is a grave act of evil to lie about a church’s doctrines in order to mislead its members. Pelosi and Biden should really pray on that.

Kensington on August 27, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Zomg. Democrats are pro abortion. What’s the story here? Is anyone shocked?

lorien1973 on August 27, 2008 at 5:29 PM

pointing out there theological charlatry and hypocrisy in calling themselves something they do not ahdere to never gets old.

sven10077 on August 27, 2008 at 5:34 PM

it seems that Biden and Pelosi are engaging in 1984 tactics by saying that Church has always had an internal struggle over abortion when in reality history shows quite the opposite. By 1984 I mean that they are trying to rewrite history and hoping no one sees that they are changing the truth. Sorry Nancy and Joey but we aren’t all democrat proles and you don’t control all the information.

theguardianii on August 27, 2008 at 5:34 PM

“The animating principle of my faith, as taught to me by church and home, was that the cardinal sin was abuse of power,”

It irritates me to no end that this blowhard uses abuse of power as an example of a “sin” that has stuck with him from childhood and one that constitutes a great evil.

No doubt that it is … however in this instance this buffoon believes that by using this example us “bitter, clinging religious folk” will perceive him as an honest man who would never, ever abuse his power …

NOT!

In fact … I now know he will.

darwin on August 27, 2008 at 5:35 PM

“The animating principle of my faith, as taught to me by church and home, was that the cardinal sin was abuse of power,” he said in an interview with the Monitor. “It was not only required as a good Catholic to abhor and avoid abuse of power, but to do something to end that abuse.”

Really? I would think ‘abuse of power’ might rank somewhere behind faith in Christ as the author of salvation as the ‘animating principle of faith’. But then again I’m not a socialist hiding behind my religion and treating it as a living breathing tradition.

gwelf on August 27, 2008 at 5:35 PM

I freely admit that am a lapsed Catholic but I am fully in accord with Catholic doctrine on abortion.

One simply cannot be a Catholic and promote or procure abortion. This is an article of the faith, it is not subject to interpretation or “one’s own view” being as good as the teachings of the Church. If you find yourself in opposition to the Church on this matter then go down the street to some other denomination whose views are more in keeping with your own. No one in the Church is holding a gun to your head forcing you to stay.

The thing I don’t understand is why people like Pelosi, Biden, Kerry, Kennedy et al think it is so important to claim to be a Catholic if they cannot accept the basic tenets of the Church. If the Catholic faith is so important to them then they must simply observe the doctrine.

johnsteele on August 27, 2008 at 5:36 PM

Sad state of affairs in America as represented by “ardent” “loyal” “good” “traditional” Irish and Italian ethnic Catholics represented by the Kennedy, Biden and Pelosi families.

maverick muse on August 27, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Note: Biden claims he will reveal his positions on Catholic doctrine. He’s calling them The 95 Theses.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on August 27, 2008 at 5:37 PM

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on August 27, 2008 at 5:28 PM

All I can say about this issue is DUH. More importantly, tho…GRUE, I died laughing when I saw your name the first time. And the *eats* thing is sheer genius. :)

*bows before grue*

tickleddragon on August 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Note: Biden claims he will reveal his positions on Catholic doctrine. He’s calling them The 95 Theses.

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on August 27, 2008 at 5:37 PM

came up with them himself….promise

sven10077 on August 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM

“The animating principle of my faith, as taught to me by church and home, was that the cardinal sin was abuse of power,”

wouldn’t the use of one’s ability to take a human life at such a vulnerable stage count as an abuse of power???
wouldn’t using the Department of Justice to threaten a lawsuit against a private citizen who said something you disagree with but can’t refute be an abuse of power???
Why do you, Biden, run alongside a person who has endorsed such abuses of power through his actions???

theguardianii on August 27, 2008 at 5:41 PM

Biden should get his stanky ass back to Sunday School before he shows off his ignorance again.

Don Carne on August 27, 2008 at 5:41 PM

Yet “The Church” refuses to excommunicate these heretics. Perhaps “The Church” should have the courage of it’s convictions. Otherwise one must assume that they are granting tacit approval.

ronsfi on August 27, 2008 at 5:33 PMBut as Michelle notes, this is a “self-excommunicating” (is that a word?) offense. The person places themselves in this state and they may not receive communion. And Pelosi, et al know this, its learned early in the process — if they are truly Catholic they don’t need to be reminded.

johnsteele on August 27, 2008 at 5:41 PM

Maybe if Plugs and Blinks would say something like “I represent all members of my Congressional district (or state for Slow Joe) and have to consider what is the right thing for all of them” they might avoid controversies like this. But they have to act like a bull in a china shop by deliberately misstating the beliefs of the Catholic Church to fit whatever fantasy world they live in. And then they wonder why they’re called on it.

I’m not Catholic but I appreciate how the church sticks to its guns on issues that it considers important. I only wish they’d take it a step further and excommunicate these losers; but I understand why it’s good politically not to.

Captain Hate on August 27, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Boy that didn’t work right :-). Obviously I did not intend to strike the text — and should have said Ed, not Michelle.

johnsteele on August 27, 2008 at 5:43 PM

The worst thing about promoting abortion is that innate act of violence against the most innocent essence of creation.

Now we see the essence of that promoter. Nothing exists except to promote the promoter. Life, love, liberty, goodness, mercy, justice, employment, relationships, whatever, NOTHING exists at all except to be used to enable the promoter with MORE, more of whatever.

There is absolutely no limit that such a person has, promoting abortion wholesale, exchanging and destroying the creative human life force for a vote.

There is no trust where there is no virtue, only fear and hate.

maverick muse on August 27, 2008 at 5:46 PM

All I can say about this issue is DUH. More importantly, tho…GRUE, I died laughing when I saw your name the first time. And the *eats* thing is sheer genius. :)

*bows before grue*

tickleddragon on August 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM

*Bows in return*

*then eats*

Grue in the Attic on August 27, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Just keep talking Biden, just keep talking. Just keep digging that hole for The One.

I am sure he also has an IQ greater than the Bishop of Rome and the college of Cardinals put together.

RobertInAustin on August 27, 2008 at 5:49 PM

“…the cardinal sin was abuse of power”

This is good news! I always thought that there were many cardinal sins. Now I know there’s only one! Thanks, Saint Biden!

Kevin M on August 27, 2008 at 5:50 PM

It’s interesting how these democrats try to appeal to Catholics such as myself by telling everyone that they’re Catholic. As if we’re so bigoted that we would only vote for a Catholic. Then they turn around and perform sacrilege by receiving communion while in a state of sin. I find it offensive that they would degrade and lie blatantly about my religion, and it’s not just me that feels this. Every Catholic I know feels what these people are doing is an abomination.

Vegi on August 27, 2008 at 5:50 PM

I have found that the dioceses are getting a bit nervous amid all this scandalous behavior by Catholic Democrats. The statements being issued by various bishops are getting more intense as the number of e-mails continues to mount. Catholics MUST create letters of concern and send them via e-mail to the Archdiocese of San Francisco, the Archdiocese of Wilmington (Delaware) and their own home diocese, asking questions as to why the Church has failed to teach and enforce among high-profile Catholic politicians who are publicly misstating and even challenging Church teaching.

It is a shame that this has to be done, but it must be done.

jay12 on August 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM

He “abhors the abuse of power” but he applauds the abuse of power inherent in taking the life of a completely dependent, weak creature?

What a crock.

CornFedBeauty on August 27, 2008 at 5:54 PM

I really don’t understand why these idiots keep shooting themselves in the foot on abortion.

Democrats= Pro-Choice. Lot’s of self-proclaimed Catholics choose the buffet plan and show up for church on Christmas and Easter while the rest of the year they act like atheists. There is no surprises here.

So, why in the world would Biden and Pelosi get on a podium and try to rewrite Catholic doctrine? That’s just plain stupid! Why not simply say- “On that issue, my personal position differs from the Church”. Simple. People would leave them alone (more or less).

Heck, I am a pro-choice atheist who votes Republican, can’t stand hippies, will start drilling in my backyard if I had the equipment and cheered while Hussein hung. If I made 4.2 million/ yr. I would probably have more than one home and none of them would be purchased with felons. I have no problem stating my positions that conflict with templated doctrine.

Damiano on August 27, 2008 at 5:54 PM

Quick story some of you my find interesting that may relate to why Biden was really selected.

Michelle McPhee is a long -time NYC/Boston crime reporter and author of true-crime books. She is a typical inner-city Boston Dem. She now has a radio talk show in Boston which attracts like-minded Dems. She’s a very close friend on the BPD/NYPD and the Firefighters. She’s recently wrote this article about Obama’s connection to Ayers which centers around the death of a Boston cop at the hands of the Weather Underground: McPhee: Obama links more than ‘troubling’

McPhee started calling around to the Police Unions asking why they haven’t been harder on Obama’s association with the leader of a group that killed cops. The answer came back, Joe Biden. Cops love Biden because he wrote the 1994 crime bill that put 100,000 cops on the streets and changed laws allowing cop killers to be charged federally. They are reluctant to do anything to hurt him.

So, there may be more to the Biden decision than meets the eye.

TheBigOldDog on August 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM

“The animating principle of my faith, as taught to me by church and home, was that the cardinal sin was abuse of power,”

Huh. Most of my Catholic acquiantances say it’s suicide.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on August 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM

There is a saying the Senator and Speaker should learn, “You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to your own set of facts.”

If someone posted this already, I apologize as I have not read every single post.

dentalque on August 27, 2008 at 5:57 PM

All I can say about this issue is DUH. More importantly, tho…GRUE, I died laughing when I saw your name the first time. And the *eats* thing is sheer genius. :)

*bows before grue*

tickleddragon on August 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM
*Bows in return*

*then eats*

Grue in the Attic on August 27, 2008 at 5:47 PM

I’m just glad there are bigger geeks out there than me!

As to Biden… I’ve seen dirty chicken houses with less crap than that man has in his head. The man indeed is a chicken sh!t for not following Catholic doctrine just to garner politcal favor.

Anna on August 27, 2008 at 5:59 PM

Yet, this menu Catholic ignores the greatest genocide in human history. The death of forty million plus infants in this country does not set off a blip on this hypocrites theological thermometer…….

Step right up and see the Democrat.

Hening on August 27, 2008 at 6:00 PM

I’m never sure why liberal Catholics just don’t go be Episcopalian or some other freaky kind of modernist Protestant. Their doctrine changes, if not in fundamentals, at least in emphasis, from one front page to next.

Consider how quintessentially important the immigration-issue was to the liberal Catholics a few months ago.

ICXC NIKA

Matushka on August 27, 2008 at 6:05 PM

CINOs I’ll never figure out how a true believer in Jesus Christ could vote for the Democrat Party of today. Same goes for Jews. They don’t care about you, only your vote.

kirkill on August 27, 2008 at 6:13 PM

I haven’t read the article; I just want to commend Ed and AP for finding the photo of Biden on the front page. I laugh every time I see it.

Mallard T. Drake on August 27, 2008 at 6:14 PM

Pharisees, Sadducees, and Liberal Democrat, pro-choice, Catholics; all are famously hypocritical.

Why I’m shocked, Shocked! , to learn that Joey B. is a heretical hypocrite…

RocketmanBob on August 27, 2008 at 6:26 PM

It’s interesting how these democrats try to appeal to Catholics such as myself by telling everyone that they’re Catholic. As if we’re so bigoted that we would only vote for a Catholic. Then they turn around and perform sacrilege by receiving communion while in a state of sin. I find it offensive that they would degrade and lie blatantly about my religion, and it’s not just me that feels this. Every Catholic I know feels what these people are doing is an abomination.

Vegi on August 27, 2008 at 5:50 PM

Vegi, vedi, veci. Well played, sir (or madam).

SKYFOX on August 27, 2008 at 6:27 PM

I’m just glad there are bigger geeks out there than me!

Anna on August 27, 2008 at 5:59 PM

And proud.

*eats*

Grue in the Attic on August 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM

Biden follows Pelosi in mangling Catholic doctrine on abortion

The only things that Pelosi and Biden can attract are flies and maggots.

Destruction of the embryo in the mother’s womb is a violation of the right to live which God has bestowed on this nascent life. To raise the question whether we are here concerned already with a human being or not is merely to confuse the issue. The simple fact is that God certainly intended to create a human being and that this nascent human being has been deliberately deprived of his life. And that is nothing but murder.

For their misplaced stand on abortion, Nancy Pelosi, and Joe Biden should be excommunicated from the Catholic church.

byteshredder on August 27, 2008 at 6:39 PM

Biden credits his Catholicism for his focus on “abuse of power”, but shrugs off the abortion debate as a minor controversy. He even goes on to tell Gail Russell Chaddock that his views on social issues fall completely within Catholic doctrine:

Reid, Pelosi, Biden, liberals, children of a God, of their own making.

One that tolerates the self righteous.

Speakup on August 27, 2008 at 6:44 PM

Cafeteria Catholics? They choose which church doctrine they will follow, and leave, what they chose not to follow.

Dr Evil on August 27, 2008 at 6:59 PM

Mr. Morrissey, thanks for your thoughtful post on this.
.
I wonder how this strategy of publicly fighting the U.S. Catholic bishops will work for the Dems?

Consanescerion on August 27, 2008 at 7:04 PM

He “abhors the abuse of power” but he applauds the abuse of power inherent in taking the life of a completely dependent, weak creature?

What a crock.

CornFedBeauty on August 27, 2008 at 5:54 PM

Swish.

whitetop on August 27, 2008 at 7:23 PM

Come on guys, they are politicians, not theologians. Even if, say, you spent 20 years in a certain church, you’re not going to fully understand the church’s view on life, or radicalism, or … come on guys.

Benjamin9 on August 27, 2008 at 7:45 PM

Biden says. “But my church is more than 2,000 years old.(bold mine)

Biden is speaking from the future apparently :)

Lord Nazh on August 27, 2008 at 7:49 PM

It’s a term my Mother always called being a ‘Convenient Catholic’.
Take from the faith what is convenient for you and p’shaw the rest away.

brewser on August 27, 2008 at 8:04 PM

Too bad there aren’t many SSJ’s around anymore. They never beat around the bush with amiguuous terms like “grave offense”, they told you straight out what it meant to do these things thusly, “You’ll go to hell!”

Sister Rosalita was my favorite.

Dusty on August 27, 2008 at 8:18 PM

Biden credits his Catholicism for his focus on “abuse of power”, but shrugs off the abortion debate as a minor controversy. He even goes on to tell Gail Russell Chaddock that his views on social issues fall completely within Catholic doctrine:

And when Catholics disagree with this very same type of Cafeteria Catholicism, we get the hate-speech: we’re “fundamentalists,” we’re “the right wing,” we’re “trying to tell everyone else what to do/believe…” and similar nutty stuff.

The thing about the Cafeteria Catholics (Biden, Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry, etc.) is that they have this sort of “rationalize-to-infinity” on all issues that don’t FIRST fit into the LEFTIST POLITICAL GOALS. Their “faith” and “belief” is, actually, their politics, the HUMANIST “movement,” not Christianity.

I get the impression that there are a lot of spiritually unwatered, unfed people who shuffle along througout their lives “attending” the Catholic Church, telling people they’re “Catholic,” going to watch the “pretty ceremonies” and such, yet, their affiliation begins and ends with the Church as to what suits their political goals, while the Church is moreorless regarded as a club or membership issue (but with candles).

To minimize abortion as Biden has done…and as Pelosi does (justifying her political beliefs, which are heretical in the Church, as justified not by the Bible OR the Church, but by an individual author [who wrote "spiritual" content])…well, this gives Catholics a very bad name.

Let’s see, Chris Matthews claims he’s “Catholic,” Pfleger does, etc. Yet they discard the most difficult to respect positions held by the Church and continue to promote themselves as “Catholics,” thus compounding their moral complications (misleading others on these issues is not a simple thing, nor excused simply).

I often have the same questions about those Jews who lay claim to being “Jewish” yet who are “Reformists” and discard a lot of what Jewish Orthodoxy is. Same goes for many Liberals today who lay claim to being “Catholic” and yet who reject the Catholic faith in reality as to specific beliefs that their political views can’t accommodate.

S on August 27, 2008 at 8:29 PM

As to Biden, specifically (his quotes here, this post), what greater “abuse of power” among humanity exists than an adult taking the life with intention of the most vulnerable among us, the most defenseless, an unborn human life?

I can’t begin to express just how monstrous I find Biden’s remarks to be, as also those related and similar by Nancy Pelosi.

S on August 27, 2008 at 8:34 PM

At a personal level, his faith provides him peace, he says. “I get comfort from carrying my rosary, going to mass every Sunday. It’s my time alone,” he (Biden) says.

Right, just as I wrote here (previous comments ^^): the “Church” is some sort of humanist event for these Cafeteria Catholics. Biden gets his Sunday vacation time, that’s why he cherishes the Church, right.

S on August 27, 2008 at 8:36 PM

“My views are totally consistent with Catholic Marxist social doctrine…”–Greasy Joe

jgapinoy on August 27, 2008 at 8:36 PM

Two more souls to collect and send to hell.

That’s it.

madmonkphotog on August 27, 2008 at 8:37 PM

THIS was posted on Politico and the Left (Obama supporters, mostly, from what I read, who allege to be “Catholics”) there literally freaked: they exploded in hate, intolerance, they gnashed their teeth, harassed and ridiculed the person who posted it, just generally went into insane writhing about what this “Catholic Voter Guide” says.

All of which, by the way, is sincerely associated with the Vatican’s positions on each issue named in this Guide.

Tough principles, tough to maintain these principles as a Catholic but this is the faith. Biden’s misleading people as he himself is misled in alleging that “the Church” is “bigger” (big enough) to accommodate his profanity and heretical claims.

My take as a Catholic and a Christian on these issues.

Excellent column, Ed.

S on August 27, 2008 at 8:43 PM

2 points.
-
1.Being an ardent middle school catechist, I find Ed’s nimble access to the catechism very impressive.
-
2. So Biden’s cardinal sin is ABUSE OF POWER! Do kickbacks to his sons from MBNA and from asbestos litigators (in return for favorable Biden action in the Senate) constitute exemplary public service?

Mark30339 on August 27, 2008 at 8:45 PM

The church finds this so important that the catechism — the compendium of Catholic doctrine available for anyone to peruse and educate themselves — makes this clear in three different places. In paragraph 2271, the doctrine of the Church notes “the moral evil of every procured abortion”. In paragraph 2322, abortion is called a “criminal” practice and reaffirms that every child has the right to life at conception.

This isn’t just “any teaching” of the Church. The catechism makes plain that this is fundamental doctrine, and that failure to abide by it makes one a de facto ex-Catholic.

Right, exactly. And reason (enough) why the likes of Kerry and others such as these (Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, etc.) really should be denied Holy Communion, if not ex-communicated when they attempt to place themselves among the Church, as long as they are promoters of the heretical notions they engage in.

S on August 27, 2008 at 8:50 PM

Before the usual suspects show up to muddy the water, let’s clarify two points:

1. The death penalty is allowed under Catholic doctrine. So a Catholic who supports it is not a hypocrite.

2. Throughout the centuries there has been debate on “ensoulment”, i.e. when a child gets his soul. However, the Church has never held the position that abortion from the time of conception was not a grave sin.

Tomblvd on August 27, 2008 at 8:51 PM

Thank you for presenting the true Catholic teaching on abortion.
It is embarrassing to have Biden, Pelosi, Dodd, Leahy, and others publicly misrepresent the tenets of my Faith, especially here in the Bible Belt.
About excommunication – when a bishop wishes to speak privately with someone about scandal it is one of the first steps to formal excommunication.

mary jo on August 27, 2008 at 9:05 PM

Well, what we need really are Bishops with Balls who will hold a formal excommunication mass, turn the Chalice upside down at the proper time and declare them “ex-communicate”.

How fun would it be to have that reported on by Olberdork and watch him explode on TV. Could be entertaining. Get the popcorn.

JP1986UM on August 27, 2008 at 10:35 PM

Throughout the centuries there has been debate on “ensoulment”, i.e. when a child gets his soul. However, the Church has never held the position that abortion from the time of conception was not a grave sin.

Tomblvd on August 27, 2008 at 8:51 PM

It was a sin relating to the missuse of human sexuality. Most would agree there is an order of magnitude difference between that and murdering another unique being.

Pope John Paul II called the death penalty “cruel and unnecessary” and in 1999 persuaded Mel Carnahan to commute a specific death sentence.

If the Vatican were to increase pressure on American politicians to reduce the use of the death penalty, how does a Catholic governor balance his parish priest, on one side, barring him from communion with, on the other side, the oath of office he took following his election?

dedalus on August 27, 2008 at 11:52 PM

I continue to fail to see why Catholic dogma makes a hill of beans difference to the price of eggs in China.

This discussion would be like a Muslim debating sharia and whether or not something is against Islam. It’s very troubling to even have this debate in a POLITICAL forum. This is for your church. Again, when an ‘evangelical’ (whatever that means) talks about it there is gnashing of teeth. But when Catholics talk about it, it’s oh yeah, let’s find out who is the ‘best’ Catholic.

I don’t care what any religion thinks about abortion. We have a secular government. If Catholic politicians are going to look to the Vatican for guidance within the government they should not be elected. Nor should a Muslim who wants to implement sharia on other non-muslims. Abortion is murder.

If murder is against the law, abortion should be too. It doesn’t matter whether or not your church thinks it is a sin.

Again, it’s easy to dismiss my bringing this up as ‘bigotry’, but I’m quite alarmed at the depth of which Catholic dogma is discussed in this political topic. Discuss Catholic dogma in your Church, not in the halls of congress.

I HOPE nobody is voting for someone because they are a ‘good Catholic’ or not. That might just be bigotry against non-Catholics. I’m sure that’s never happened before has it?

ThackerAgency on August 28, 2008 at 1:18 AM

1. The death penalty is allowed under Catholic doctrine.

Even though they no longer have capital punishment at the Vatican. . . it was only 50 years ago that they changed it. So that’s OK. Anyway, as the earlier post. It’s a shame that you look to the Vatican to justify all of your beliefs.

The Catholic Church supports open borders. Is Malkin a ‘bad Catholic’ for being for secure borders?

Again, the fact that this debate is even happening is extremely alarming to me. But of course, you can just dismiss me as a bigot. . . even though you’d be angry if a Muslim (or Protestant) official was doing it.

The reason that the justice in the Supreme Court brought up the phrase ’separation between Church and state’ was because he didn’t want the influence of the Vatican (specifically – but any church in general) in DC. Catholics want the Vatican to control DC. Again, this is alarming to me.

We are a Christian nation, but we have a SECULAR government. . . and that is a VERY good thing.

ThackerAgency on August 28, 2008 at 1:26 AM

thackeragency

The Church draws a severe distinction between an opinion regarding open borders and the absolute condemnation of abortion. Why equivocate the two positions?

The borders issue is more of a referral to situations most blatantly represented by the (now gone)Berlin Wall. Catholic teaching states that nations have a right to defend themselves, and that capital punishment can be a form of self-defense – but procured abortion is always evil.
Pelosi and Biden can have any opinion they want. Their constituents can vote for them. If they make up Catholic teaching to get votes, and we have the glorious freedom to correct them.

mary jo on August 28, 2008 at 2:23 AM

ThackerAgency: the issue is as to individuals who identify as “Catholics” in seeking political office, yet who are not Catholic by their beliefs. It calls to question what their character and ethics are (d’oh) to others who are Catholics.

No one’s saying that non-Catholics ought to be applying what the Vatican says as to who to vote for. But for Catholics, it’s an important issue. Not that someone IS Catholic or isn’t, but that they’re saying they are but are not.

S on August 28, 2008 at 4:50 AM

“Catholics want the Vatican to control DC.”
ThackerAgency on August 28, 2008

If you’re going to say something this stupid and domonstrably false, don’t be surprised when someone calls you on it. I don’t know if you’re an ex-Catholic with a grudge or a never-was without a clue, but I’m guessing that John Travolta would love to have you join his church. Or maybe the Unitarians or…oh, just stick with the atheists. They aren’t going anywhere soon.

SKYFOX on August 28, 2008 at 5:12 AM

Abortion: The ultimate abuse of power.

fossten on August 28, 2008 at 8:11 AM

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