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Totten: Georgia didn’t start the fighting in the Caucasus

posted at 11:45 am on August 26, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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The received wisdom on the Caucasus war casts Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili as either villain or dupe, foolishly provoking a staged response from Russia by firing on civilians in Tshkanvili.  Michael Totten, now reporting from the ground at Pajamas Media, says that this anaylsis is completely wrong.  In fact, South Ossetian separatists broke the cease-fire by firing on Georgian soldiers, and Russia mobilized its forces before Saakashvili’s targeted assault on separatists in the Tshkanvili area:

Virtually everyone believes Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili foolishly provoked a Russian invasion on August 7, 2008, when he sent troops into the breakaway district of South Ossetia. “The warfare began Aug. 7 when Georgia launched a barrage targeting South Ossetia,” the Associated Press reported over the weekend in typical fashion.

Virtually everyone is wrong. Georgia didn’t start it on August 7, nor on any other date. The South Ossetian militia started it on August 6 when its fighters fired on Georgian peacekeepers and Georgian villages with weapons banned by the agreement hammered out between the two sides in 1994. At the same time, the Russian military sent its invasion force bearing down on Georgia from the north side of the Caucasus Mountains on the Russian side of the border through the Roki tunnel and into Georgia. This happened before Saakashvili sent additional troops to South Ossetia and allegedly started the war.

The real story of this conflict begins decades ago, during the Soviet period of Russian empire.  The Kremlin used ethnic rivalries to keep its disparate populations at war with each other rather than Moscow.  The Soviets then set themselves in position to act as mediators, when in fact they fanned the ethnic rivalries for their own purposes of division.

This doesn’t mean that Georgia doesn’t have some responsibility for this conflict.  As two regional experts explained to Totten, Georgia had its own brand of ethnic nationalists who threw fuel onto this fire after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.  Eventually, conflicts would drive milder forms of ethnic cleansing than seen in the former Yugoslavia, but destabilizing nonetheless.  When Saakashvili came to power in the Rose Revolution, he inherited a nation already riven by ethnic conflict and two territories with reason to view Georgian sovereignty with suspicion.  Despite his efforts to woo Abkhazians and Ossetians back into the Georgian union, too many hard feelings remain — and Russia began to play the old games that the Soviets abandoned during their collapse.

How did the Russians provoke this latest conflict?  In April, they began issuing Russian passports to residents of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.  This gave them a legal status as Russian citizens, and gave Moscow a pretense for protecting them with military force.  It resembles nothing more than Hitler’s efforts in the Sudetenland in 1938, which ended in the collapse in Munich of the West.  With this kind of backing, the separatists felt free to launch attacks on Georgian forces, and as early as May Saakashvili warned that Russia wanted a war in the Caucasus.

Be sure to read all of Michael’s excellent report.  While all sides have historical responsibility for fanning ethnic conflict, the methods and motives of Vladimir Putin and his henchmen are quite transparent.


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Comment pages: 1 2

All the news reports that said Georgia invaded South Ossetia to kick off the conflict are wrong, as proven by …this blogger who got to Georgia 3 weeks later? Yeah ok Ed.

e-pirate on August 26, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Virtually everyone is wrong.

Actually I’ve read several reports that the South Ossetia forces had fired missiles into Georgia to provoke the invasion.

TooTall on August 26, 2008 at 11:49 AM

All the news reports that said Georgia invaded South Ossetia to kick off the conflict are wrong, as proven by …this blogger who got to Georgia 3 weeks later? Yeah ok Ed.

e-pirate on August 26, 2008 at 11:49 AM

You do realize that South Ossetia is a part of Georgia, right?

Vashta.Nerada on August 26, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Just like when Hitler “protected” Austria and Czechslovakia by invading them, in spite of the fact that the Nazis were the ones who were doing the provoking. Yeah, sounds like Putin was reading the right books.

All the news reports that said Georgia invaded South Ossetia to kick off the conflict are wrong, as proven by …this blogger who got to Georgia 3 weeks later? Yeah ok Ed.

Because we ALL know that Vladmir Putin and his puppets are soooooo interested in protecting the human rights of others. OKKKAAAYYYYY, e-pirate. Got a bridge you want to sell next?

mjk on August 26, 2008 at 11:51 AM

Can’t access Michael’s site. You’re probably crashing his server!

He’s always spot on. I’ll check back later this afternoon.

Grantman on August 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM

I thought Georgia was the state just north of Florida?

[/snark]

http://thepajamapundit.com/

thePajamaPundit on August 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM

Russia is the real bully? No, that can’t be!
But Obamarxist is afraid of Putin’s pecs.

jgapinoy on August 26, 2008 at 11:52 AM

Just the size, organization, and supply chain of the Russian troops (that invaded Georgia) proves that their operation followed days, if not weeks, of military planning.

RBMN on August 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM

RBMN on August 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Russia had been building up tanks there since May or something. If anyone didn’t see this coming, they were blind.

lorien1973 on August 26, 2008 at 11:55 AM

Just the size, organization, and supply chain of the Russian troops (that invaded Georgia) proves that their operation followed days, if not weeks, of military planning.

RBMN on August 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM

From what little I know of military logistics, I would say it’s more like months of planning.

MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2008 at 11:57 AM

the methods and motives of Vladimir Putin and his henchmen are quite transparent.

More like a cartoon.

Can’t you see Putin … wringing his hands together… and saying with a weird cackle in the background… “I Shall take OVA DA WORLD!”.

Opps I guess that was hitler.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 11:57 AM

All this really illustrates are the wickedly intricate politics of this region. Simply put, everyone involved had dirty hands in this little chess match.

Marine_Bio on August 26, 2008 at 11:57 AM

RBMN and Markthegreat,

think LARGER then weeks or months. Think YEARS and YEARS. Putin has been around for a while, which we all seem to forget. Also, I speaking with a friend the other day, found out that Russian Bombers have invaded Alaskan airspace 9 time just this August (and the month isn’t over yet).

Does anyone else see a problem here?

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM

All the news reports that said Georgia invaded South Ossetia to kick off the conflict are wrong, as proven by …this blogger who got to Georgia 3 weeks later? Yeah ok Ed.

e-pirate on August 26, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Yeah, pretty much. Anything else I can help you with?

And yeah, it’s been mentioned, but South Ossetia is part of Georgia, not Russia. It’s kind of hard to invade your own country, even if Ossetia is full of Putin loyalists.

And don’t be disrespecting Totten…they guy is as level-headed as they come and just reports the facts. Russia coordinated this with criminals in Georgia for weeks before this started…it was all a setup.

Russia got tired of poisoning opponents and decided to break out the tanks instead.

Asher on August 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM

e-pirate on August 26, 2008 at 11:49 AM

The EARLIEST Georgian reports where that they were responding to attacks from Ossetia… but the MSM, WHO WERE NOT THERE took the Russian’s word that Georgia was the aggresor…

And.. hmmm…. just where is Russia’s credibility right now based on the fact that they said they would leave LAST WEEK, and still have troops inside Georgia?

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 12:00 PM

e-pirate on August 26, 2008 at 11:49 AM

Look up Georgia, Russian Empire, Ukraine beginnings and then Yugoslavia. You might learn something.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:01 PM

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 12:00 PM

Romeo, how long have you and I been discussing this on HA? at least a couple weeks now… over 3 if I remember right.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:02 PM

But I thought Barry said we caused the whole thing by setting a poor example? I just don’t know what to believe anymore!

Rollie on August 26, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer says the aim, from the start, was to overthrow Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili and his pro-Western government.

“This was prepared long ago,” Felgenhauer, a Moscow-based military analyst tells RFE/RL’s North Caucasus Service, adding that according to his information, a decision to go to war was made back in April.

http://www.rferl.org/content/Did_Russia_Plan_Its_War_In_Georgia__/1191460.html

Capt-Dax on August 26, 2008 at 12:03 PM

I hope Michael’s keeping his head down. Georgia’s much more dangerous for him than Iraq ever was. Putin kills people that disagree with him.

Watch your six!!!!

E9RET on August 26, 2008 at 12:03 PM

The EARLIEST Georgian reports where that they were responding to attacks from Ossetia… but the MSM, WHO WERE NOT THERE took the Russian’s word that Georgia was the aggresor…

They must’ve gotten a glimpse of Putin’s soul by looking into his eyes…ugh!

Dariaanne on August 26, 2008 at 12:04 PM

And, of course, no one will listen to the man who actually spends a great deal of his time in the Balkans, the Caucasus, and the Middle East. Much better to listen to Obama, who stopped the whole thing with his mighty words.

Also, I speaking with a friend the other day, found out that Russian Bombers have invaded Alaskan airspace 9 time just this August (and the month isn’t over yet).

Does anyone else see a problem here?

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM

Not speaking to diminish that fact, but Russia has been invading Alaskan, British, German, and other NATO airspace for the last few years numerous times, and jets have been scrambled numerous times. I think they’re actually just waiting for the moment when we don’t respond.

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 12:05 PM

Totten is one of the most highly credible bloggers out there with a set of stones to match. He walks the walk , e-pirate, whereas I’m sure you’re brave in an anonymous, cowardly kind of fashion.

Calm Before the Storm on August 26, 2008 at 12:06 PM

The Kremlin used ethnic rivalries to keep its disparate populations at war with each other rather than Moscow. The Soviets then set themselves in position to act as mediators, when in fact they fanned the ethnic rivalries for their own purposes of division.

Oh, just like the American race industry. Coincidence?

Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Too bad.

Totten’s article is going to burst the bubble of the Marxist running around at my workplace.

He’s been on a rampage since those evil Georgian/NATO/Bush/Imperialists fired on those poor defenseless Russian “peacekeepers”

Huh.

Et tu Brute on August 26, 2008 at 12:08 PM

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 12:05 PM

Very true Madi (Good Morning BTW), but not like this. Nine times in a month? That is unheard of especially since it take HOURS to reach Alaska… even via Siberia, thru the middle Alutiens. And a Bomber is slow…400 mph max depending on weight.

I do agree, they are waiting for a non-responding period.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Oh, just like the American race industry. Coincidence?

Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:08 PM

Oh give me a damn break. If you are going to act that way… go AWAY!

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Oh give me a damn break. If you are going to act that way… go AWAY!

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Eh? I don’t follow. Is it no longer permitted to imply that the Revs Jesse, Al, et al took inspiration from the Marxist Motherland?

Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:13 PM

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:02 PM

Yeah, its harder to pay attention to whats really going on, than to get your views from the MSM scream machine.

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:13 PM

No, maybe I am just tired of the BS crap concerning RACE! I don’t give a crap what color someone is, becuase in the scheme of things it really doesn’t matter!

And BTW maybe ethnic has to do with LAND and RELIGON not COLOR! Here.. a Wiki site for you to maybe figure it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 12:14 PM

Yep, it is hard. I decided to go the route of looking on an israeli site. You see some more items compared to here.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Eh? I don’t follow. Is it no longer permitted to imply that the Revs Jesse, Al, et al took inspiration from the Marxist Motherland?
Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:13 PM

I believe your original post was taken out of context, and you’re right, it does resemble the race hustlers here in America.

Bishop on August 26, 2008 at 12:20 PM

why am I getting broken link at Totten’s article?

Kaptain Amerika on August 26, 2008 at 12:22 PM

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:18 PM

Sorry man, maybe you’re over-thinking my meaning. I wasn’t saying anything about the racial/ethnic aspect of Russia/Georgia. I was just pointing out how the American Left, in the area of race but also in the area of economics and “class,” has been using the same tactics for decades. Create a problem, insert themselves as saviors, collect more power.

You can’t sell “hope and change” until you’ve convinced people that there is no hope, and that you’re the change.

Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM

Not to crap in anyone’s cornflakes today, but ethnicity can correspond with race:

“of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background”

Bishop on August 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM

think LARGER then weeks or months. Think YEARS and YEARS. Putin has been around for a while, which we all seem to forget. Also, I speaking with a friend the other day, found out that Russian Bombers have invaded Alaskan airspace 9 time just this August (and the month isn’t over yet).

Does anyone else see a problem here?

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 11:59 AM

They are testing our reactions. They did this many times during the cold war. On the the other hand they could be trying to provoke the us.

Johan Klaus on August 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM

The Germans shot German death row inmates and dressed them in Polish uniforms in order to attack Poland with the claim that it was self-defense. The Russians have pretty much done the same thing here by having their stooges lay fire into Georgia until the Georgians reacted. I guess if Mexico was firing into the USA with automatic weapons and light artillery, even we would eventually react (maybe, maybe not).

The movement of troop into Georgia and the speed they were deployed with objectives taken had to be planned in advance. Georgia is guilty of fighting back, and that’s it. After Russia told them to stop fighting or they would overrun the capitol, the Russians continued to murder civilians, loot private homes, destroy property and basically vandalize the country (Hey Moscow, the Fifth century just called and wants that tactic back).

This was a test run for Moscow.

Hening on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Next up: Baracky praises the great infrastructure of Russia.

Bishop on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM

So the Georgians didn’t start the war, it was the “militia” aligned with the Russians. Wow, I’ve never heard of this happening before. Soviet (oops, I mean Russian) backed guerrillas starting a conflict to give the Soviets (er, Russians) a reason (excuse) to intervene. (Of course, they are the only ones who’ve ever tried this gambit.)

Given the age of this trick, it’s amazing that our response was so poor. Zero based strategy, eh?

CrazyGene on August 26, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Hannibal Smith on August 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Bishop on August 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM

First off I am Female.

Second I live in probably the only place in the United States that has Ethnic issues that stem from real issues. Alaskan Natives. Is it just a race or is it due to Ethnic issues? You figure it out.. I am not going to try to explain.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:30 PM

Johan Klaus on August 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM

I thik they are provoking many, not just us. But then the U.S. is the forefront. What is the best option then to antangonize the main opponent.

This was a test run for Moscow.

Hening on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM

I think you, I and a few other in here all agree.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:31 PM

upinak….
The russians are attempting to gather as much info on the F22’s that the 90th out of Elmendorf are flying. Most of the bears are loaded with monitoring equipment and are trying to get a handle on what the Raptor intercept tatics look like. I believe we have started to keep the 22’s in the roost and are using the 15’s for the day to day intercepts.

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 12:35 PM

How long have the Russians been planning this?

Video: Russian MiG Shoots Georgian Drone

Drone Wars, Part II: Abkhaz Claim Another Shootdown

BohicaTwentyTwo on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Russia mobilized its forces before Saakashvili’s targeted assault on separatists in the Tshkanvili area:

Russia was prepared before Saakashvili started his “targeted” use of Grad on civilian population. Wow.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM

The russians are attempting to gather as much info on the F22’s that the 90th out of Elmendorf are flying. Most of the bears are loaded with monitoring equipment and are trying to get a handle on what the Raptor intercept tatics look like. I believe we have started to keep the 22’s in the roost and are using the 15’s for the day to day intercepts.

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 12:35 PM

All the more reason we should start shooting them down.

fossten on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM

I guess if Mexico was firing into the USA with automatic weapons and light artillery, even we would eventually react (maybe, maybe not).
Hening on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM

I have got a friend who works on the border near El Paso and he said they work behind a laminated polycarbonate sheild that protects them from gun shots from across the border.

Johan Klaus on August 26, 2008 at 12:43 PM

I haven’t read through the entire thread so I hope I don’t step on anyone’s tongue here.

Russia has been planning this since the fall of the Berlin Wall. They’ve been looking for a way back to dominance since detente. Trust but verify is a Pollyanna-ish view of the Russian mentality.

The CIA estimate that there are more Russian spies in the US now than at any time since the end of the cold war, if it ever ended..

We are weakened by enegy problems, terrorism, Iraq and Afghanistan and a failure of preemptive diplomacy. I have long felt that Putin was untrustworthy and we should never have been so eager to assist in their “rearmament” disguised as economic aid.

They knew what they were doing, use us and the rest of the West to get their house in order, then get back their prime conquests.

We now need to get our house in order. National defense (national debt included here), energy self-sufficiency, economic strength.

These are our national priorities if we want to survive.

We can do nothing without strength at home. Our allies are wimps.

eaglesdontflock on August 26, 2008 at 12:45 PM

fossten on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Fish in a barrel!!!!

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 12:45 PM

BohicaTwentyTwo on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Bingo

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 12:48 PM

Putin the Puppet master

Kini on August 26, 2008 at 12:48 PM

Shield=sheild

Johan Klaus on August 26, 2008 at 12:49 PM

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 12:35 PM

dmann, they got rid of almost all F-15’s due to the serious problem they had with them… mostly the cracks in the cockpit area. All they have up here is the f-22’s anymore.
But I will give you they are probably looking for any information on them.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:52 PM

I guess the only way to know for sure is to have the Russians and the Georgians let us peruse through their e-mails and documents……

It would seem a bit odd for Georgia to start it, though. It wouldn’t seem odd at all for the separatists to start it, knowing full well that Russia would have their back.

Occam’s Razor tells you that the separatists, in lieu of Russia, were the ones who sparked it.

Seixon on August 26, 2008 at 12:55 PM

upinak…..

The cracks were in the C’s, I thought the 90th had the E’s before the switch to the 22’s. The E’s were not affetced by the inspection stand down.

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 1:00 PM

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 1:00 PM

I work right next to Elmendorf AFB. All you see anymore are the F22’s. Trust me on this. Besides they did a news story on them up here. If we have any F-15’s, we don’t have more then 5, if that. http://www.ktuu.com and do a search on the F-22’s. Also they grounded them up here due to a couple of crashes in the mountains, and I am not sure if they recovered all the wreckage.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 1:02 PM

Great link.

Great information.

drjohn on August 26, 2008 at 1:05 PM

Seixon on August 26, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Nope, all ya gotta do is look at satelite imagry, and see if those Russian Columns were moving in and out of that tunnel FIRST….

Hmmm…. hadn’t thought about it, does Google earth Archive satty images? An armor column should be able to be seen at their levels resolution.

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 1:06 PM

Russia is handing out Russian passports in Ukraine http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/08/georgia-the-rus.html#comment-126972956ne.

The build-up of NATO and Russian warships in the Black Sea is looking ominous, although they all claim they’re there for pre-planned military exercises.

justincase on August 26, 2008 at 1:17 PM

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 1:02 PM
Thanks for the link, fyi on the F22 intercepts; they usually go out with external tanks and a radar reflector so the Russians would not get the “real” picture of their operational capability.

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 1:17 PM

dmann on August 26, 2008 at 1:17 PM

Ahhh, something I did not know about. TY for the info, I am always up for learning something new.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 1:34 PM

Saakashvili says the Russians have moved their artillery to within 10 miles of Tbilisi, within firing range. I suppose that’s for “peace-keeping”? Right.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2625402/Georgia-president-claims-Russians-are-now-within-artillery-range-of-Tbilisi.html

justincase on August 26, 2008 at 1:37 PM

Most subjects (can’t refer to them as Russians) are lining up behind their mobster bosses, at least publically, but few who went over to Georgia to check things out and dared to speak up afterwards confirm that the rooskie commie pigs were up to their Nazi tricks, just like Heydrich with the Sudeten Germans in 1938.
The rooskie commie pigs started the whole thing. The good news is that this is the beginning of the end, the start of eventual disintegration of their evil empire, God willing

Erinaceus Cyprius on August 26, 2008 at 1:38 PM

It would seem a bit odd for Georgia to start it, though. It wouldn’t seem odd at all for the separatists to start it, knowing full well that Russia would have their back.

Occam’s Razor tells you that the separatists, in lieu of Russia, were the ones who sparked it.

LOL, yesterday I quoted something said by one Russian propagandist:

“Missing facts are deduced analytically and italicized.”

Funny, how there’s no difference between you and them.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

No, maybe I am just tired of the BS crap concerning RACE! I don’t give a crap what color someone is, becuase in the scheme of things it really doesn’t matter!

And BTW maybe ethnic has to do with LAND and RELIGON not COLOR! Here.. a Wiki site for you to maybe figure it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 12:18 PM

It’s all the same concept, falling under the larger umbrella of…tribalism.

baldilocks on August 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

Funny, how there’s no difference between you and them.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Funny, I was just thinking the same about you.

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

I guess if Mexico was firing into the USA with automatic weapons and light artillery, even we would eventually react (maybe, maybe not).

Hening on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM

As you say…

baldilocks on August 26, 2008 at 1:46 PM

Funny, I was just thinking

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

Funny, indeed.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM

Kinda reminds me of the old joke in which the Soviet government spokesman announces that the Chinese have fired upon a peacefully operating Soviet combine harvester at the Sino-Soviet border. One reporter has a question “What happened to the combine harvester?” “It fired its rockets, then took off and returned to its base.”

factoid on August 26, 2008 at 1:57 PM

It resembles nothing more than Hitler’s efforts in the Sudetenland in 1938, which ended in the collapse in Munich of the West.

It worked the first time…

PersonalLiberty on August 26, 2008 at 1:59 PM

It’s all the same concept, falling under the larger umbrella of…tribalism.

baldilocks on August 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

Ahh didn’t think about that. Thanks Baldi!

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:05 PM

Rod Dreher has jumped on the pro soviet Russian bandwagon. See realclearpolitics.

rightwingprof on August 26, 2008 at 2:09 PM

Rod Dreher has jumped on the pro soviet Russian bandwagon. See realclearpolitics.

Again, every sane person must remember that even 17 years after the collapse of the USSR, to all neoconservative nuts Russian still equals Soviet.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Kinda reminds me of the old joke in which the Soviet government spokesman announces that the Chinese have fired upon a peacefully operating Soviet combine harvester at the Sino-Soviet border. One reporter has a question “What happened to the combine harvester?” “It fired its rockets, then took off and returned to its base.”

Yeah, the Iraqis were traitorously shooting at Americans, as those were peacefully bombing their cities.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 2:20 PM

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 2:20 PM

Easy to say for you, in your little apartment in New York City.

Is it a full moon? The Trolls are out in full force!

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:25 PM

You can take the politician out of the KGB but you can’t take the KGB out of the politician.

Disturb the Universe on August 26, 2008 at 2:26 PM

Again, every sane person must remember that even 17 years after the collapse of the USSR, to all neoconservative nuts Russian still equals Soviet.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 2:18 PM

Hmmm. “Term-limited” leader manages to maintain power by taking another position and installing a puppet. Said leader is a former KGB agent. Said leader baits neighboring nation to send troops into neighboring nation’s own land, declares war, invades neighboring nation’s land, killing neighboring citizens, levelling large towns, threatening and killing journalists. Said leader agrees to numerous ceasefires which are violated by said leader’s troops. Said leader has puppet threatens other neighboring nations for speaking out against them, sends speeches and articles to Western nations redirecting blame to Western nations, while the blood of neighboring nation remains on the hands of said leader’s troops. Said leader threatens Western nations with nuclear retaliation.

How nuts to see any parallels to the USSR.

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 2:28 PM

Thanks Totten, for exposing a legitimate inconvenient truth.

e-pirate, your wrong on this one pal. Casting aspersions on Totten’s work, simply because you don’t like the reality of it, is a tactic most often emolyed at the other end of the politi-sphere…

RocketmanBob on August 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 2:28 PM

trying to explain that, is like trying to explain quantum psychics to a 2 yr old.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM

Ahem. Ummm how many commenters on here called this?

- The Cat

P.S. Standard Soviet M.O.

MirCat on August 26, 2008 at 2:35 PM

In fact, South Ossetian separatists broke the cease-fire by firing on Georgian soldiers, and Russia mobilized its forces before Saakashvili’s targeted assault on separatists in the Tshkanvili area

This has been known for over two weeks now.

MB4 on August 26, 2008 at 2:35 PM

Freevillage idiot ran out of snarky retorts?

Disturb the Universe on August 26, 2008 at 2:37 PM

This has been known for over two weeks now.

MB4 on August 26, 2008 at 2:35 PM

WAY over 2 weeks. You know that MB!

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:39 PM

Funny, how there’s no difference between you and them.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 1:41 PM

Funny, I was just thinking the same about you.

MadisonConservative on August 26, 2008 at 1:42 PM

You must not question my Minister of Truth least a mysterious illness befall.

PootyPoot on August 26, 2008 at 2:45 PM

Two pieces of information reported in the Economist on August 14th that never seemed to make it into the MSM narrative that would have rebuked Russian propaganda now supported by Totten’s reporting:

In early August Georgian and South Ossetian separatists exchanged fire and explosive attacks. South Ossetia blew up a truck carrying Georgian policemen and attacked Georgian villages; Georgia fired back at the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali. On August 7th Georgian and South Ossetian officials were due to have direct talks facilitated by a Russian diplomat. But according to Temur Iakobashvili, a Georgian minister, the Russian diplomat never turned up.

However, what triggered the Georgian response, says Mr Saakashvili, was the movement of Russian troops through the Roki tunnel that connects South Ossetia to Russia.

And then there is this statement which seems to explain the question that Condi was asked at the press conference by the Russian news reporter. He asked Condi if it was true that the USA had told Saakashvili NOT TO RESPOND TO RUSSIAN PROVOCATION and they ignored those instructions. And that she had delegated that instruction to a junior officer. It was his referral to RUSSIAN not SO provocation that caught my ear.

Matthew Bryza, an official at the State Department, says he was woken at 2am on August 7th to be told that the Georgians were lifting the ceasefire. “I tried to persuade them not to do it,” he says.

So there was a ceasefire on the table on August 7th, which probably explains Bush’s original call for both sides to stop and evidently Putin had told Bush he was sending in a Russian to negotiate but instead Putin sent in a column of Russian tanks.

The RUSSIAN PROVOCATION was the column of tanks coming thru the Roki tunnel. And the telling them not to respond part was this undersecretary on the phone at 2 am.

The part that Totten tells us about the Georgian paratroopers who destroyed the 15 Russian tanks explains why we did see those early reports of Russian tanks destroyed and planes shot down.

Texas Gal on August 26, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Seixon on August 26, 2008 at 12:55 PM

“It would seem a bit odd for Georgia to start it, though.”

Except for communicated promises from a third party made and then broken.

It wouldn’t seem odd at all for the separatists to start it, knowing full well that Russia would have their back.

Except that the Ruskies inspired, trained, armed and timed the separatist’s actions. This was so they could precisely time the movement of their own troops.

What boggles my mind is how did our “birds” missed the large movement of armored vehicles? Very curious… unless we didn’t want to see them…How could that be…?

Occam’s Razor tells you that the separatists, in lieu of Russia, were the ones who sparked it.

Totally a Russian operation; Saakashvili and Bush took Putin’s bait, hook, line and sinker…!

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 2:48 PM

Texas Gal on August 26, 2008 at 2:46 PM

Weren’t both Putin and Bush at the Games when this “started”. I doubt it was a call, more like an arguement at the games.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:51 PM

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:51 PM

Shaking hands and grinning from ear to ear, no less…!

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 2:54 PM

Just the size, organization, and supply chain of the Russian troops (that invaded Georgia) proves that their operation followed days, if not weeks, of military planning.

RBMN on August 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM
From what little I know of military logistics, I would say it’s more like months of planning.

MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2008 at 11:57 AM

We have planned years in advance for conflicts that probably won’t ever materialize. Are we to think the Russians don’t do the same? Now there are also different strategies for the same conflicts as well. Powell had a different plan for the invasion of Iraq compared to Rumsfeld’s blitzkreig. We also had plans to nuke Iraq if they used chemical weapons on Israel. That is just one example.

If there is a country that doesn’t use premeditation in any of its invasions or responses then their leaders should be hung.

LevStrauss on August 26, 2008 at 2:59 PM

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 2:51 PM

Call = Public statement. Not as in picked up a phone.

Bush has been criticized for not responding quickly and calling for both sides to ceasefire. It looks to me now like there was an actual ceasefire on the table to be negotiated before Saakashvili went into SO heavy duty.

I remember seeing that thug Ivan the Russian Defense Minister on TV and when asked about a ceasefire, he smugly brushed it off, I wondered at the time if a ruse had been played on Saakashvili and Bush.

This explains also the public statements by Bush, Condi and Gates in the following days about being lied to by their counterparts. And probably explains why Bush sent in the US Military with humanitarian aid while they were still shooting at each other in Georgia.

Texas Gal on August 26, 2008 at 3:01 PM

Now a month late and possibably at least a dollar short; the “Airhead from Texas” has decided to play a “game of chicken” with the Ruskies…!

This appears to be a whole lot of unprovoked [but planned?] military action just prior to our own national election.

Curious, very curious, indeed…!

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Aug11/0,4670,USRussiaGeorgia,00.html

Texgal, here is one link about Bush concerning the humanitarian aid.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401206,00.html

This is from Aug 10th

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,400083,00.html

This is from the beginning of the Olympics. They have been asking for it since the Start.

Also, Ed or Allah posted about it the day before the Olympics and not too many commented on it. OldNuke, Eled, I and Romeo were and have been quite active concerning this.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 3:26 PM

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM

The beginning of the Olympics, being able to watch and know years before hand when the Elections would be taken place in the U.S., the fact that many Nations are at a stand still while the Olympics go on with the understanding that it is a World event and a time for Peace.

Putin have been planning this for years.

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 3:27 PM

We have planned years in advance for conflicts that probably won’t ever materialize. Are we to think the Russians don’t do the same? Now there are also different strategies for the same conflicts as well. Powell had a different plan for the invasion of Iraq compared to Rumsfeld’s blitzkreig. We also had plans to nuke Iraq if they used chemical weapons on Israel. That is just one example.

If there is a country that doesn’t use premeditation in any of its invasions or responses then their leaders should be hung.

LevStrauss on August 26, 2008 at 2:59 PM

But you don’t understand. The Russians are inherently evil. Or rather, EVIL. Clearly the logic that applies to the US or any other country cannot be applied to them.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 3:28 PM

But you don’t understand. The Russians are inherently evil. Or rather, EVIL. Clearly the logic that applies to the US or any other country cannot be applied to them.

freevillage on August 26, 2008 at 3:28 PM

Nice snark, but even with Plans in place, it takes time to arm and gas up armor formations. Unless you are on a high alert, you do NOT leave ammo in a tank… because of the possibility of something going wrong…

That the supposedly moved that many men and vehicles in the first 24 hours in “response” to a “suprise” Georgian invasion defies logic, and the realities of military logistics.

I’d LOVE to see Satty pics of the tunnel on the days leading up to this “Gerogian attack”… the type of traffic would be very enlightening.

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 3:33 PM

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 3:27 PM

What did I say…and Clausewitz long before me…

”war is a continuation of politics by other means”

I have also said, “have someone watch your back when you deign to trust a politician”.

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM

I have also said, “have someone watch your back when you deign to trust a politician”.

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM

LOL…

and a Romeoism….

“Common sense…. isn’t…”

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 3:39 PM

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM

where did I lose you?

upinak on August 26, 2008 at 3:52 PM

Romeo13 on August 26, 2008 at 3:39 PM

“…sit with your back to the wall when listening to a politician?”

J_Gocht on August 26, 2008 at 3:57 PM

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