APSA to boycott Canada over Steyn prosecution?
posted at 10:25 am on August 26, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
The American Political Science Association meets this week in Boston, and one of the questions they will consider will be whether they should meet as planned next year in Toronto. After the prosecution of Mark Steyn before a provincial Human Rights Commission this year and the demand of another commission to a Christian publication to cease criticism of gays and lesbians, APSA wonders whether debate on Islam, homosexuality, or other topics could result in prosecution. A nascent boycott movement has sprung into existence, and APSA leadership has decided to consult legal experts on potential liability:
As the American Political Science Association prepares to meet in Boston this week, a small network of scholars — including a pair of high-profile social conservatives — is circulating a petition asking the association to think carefully about its plans to meet in Toronto next year.
At issue are Canada’s federal and provincial human-rights commissions, which have recently been accused of trampling on free speech. In a decision last May, the Alberta Human Rights and Citizenship Commission ordered a right-wing Christian organization to “cease publishing in newspapers, by e-mail, on the radio, in public speeches, or on the Internet, in future, disparaging remarks about gays and homosexuals.” And Maclean’s, the Canadian newsweekly, was brought before a British Columbia tribunal in June for publishing an allegedly anti-Muslim article; the tribunal has not yet issued a ruling.
The political-science petition, whose initial signers include Robert P. George, a professor of jurisprudence at Princeton University, and Harvey C. Mansfield, a professor of government at Harvard University, warns that scholars visiting Toronto might face legal jeopardy if they made controversial statements. Scholars should be able to speak about “public policy concerning homosexuality or the character of and proper response to terrorist elements acting in the name of Islam, without fear of legal repercussions of any kind,” the petition reads.
At the moment, APSA has not decided to make any changes to its plans. They want to study the question of liability first before making any decisions. Even the petition doesn’t yet demand a boycott, but expresses concern about the potential for malicious prosecution for those who freely debate issues surrounding terrorism, war, and social policy.
This careful approach may make sense in a legal sense, but APSA has a greater scope than interpretations of law. APSA stands for free political debate, unfettered by government censorship and dire financial consequences. Unfortunately at the moment, Canada doesn’t protect those values, preferring a government-mandated speech code imposed by threat of force or financial ruin. The case against Ezra Levant, Mark Steyn, and MacLean’s showed this; even though they were eventually exonerated (with a remarkable dollop of ungraciousness by the Commission), it cost the defendants a fortune to clear themselves of a ridiculous charge.
Until Canada disbands its commissions that impose political correctness on citizens and visitors, APSA should find another venue for its mission. Perhaps this will in some small way shame Canada into listening to its better instincts and stop government censorship of political discourse. (via King Banaian)









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BTW, the latest Imprimus newsletter, from Hillsdale College, has text of a speech Steyn gave. In it, he points out that the plaintiff in the suit against him has publicly called for the death of every Jew in Israel over the age of 18. Steyn’s ‘crime’ is telling people in writing what muslims stand for. Double standard?
Vashta.Nerada on August 26, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Let’s see whether the APSA can rise above political correctness.
I have serious doubts.
MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Yep. Agree. Shows how “intolerant” Canada really is, and how specific groups(cough, cough) can sway the political machinery there, too.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 26, 2008 at 10:32 AM
It won’t happen. I think the major issue is more self-preservation than any protest against Canada’s laws:
Unfortunately,I think they’re going to keep their conference just where it is after Canada’s government gives them the assurances they seek.
Slublog on August 26, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Next, they’ll boycott the USA when President BO & his socialist Congress enact the so-called Fairness Doctrine.
jgapinoy on August 26, 2008 at 10:34 AM
if Obama wins, and something like this happened to a Steyn and Canada convicted him. Would Obama turn him over to the foreign govt.?
jp on August 26, 2008 at 10:34 AM
This is what we have in store for ourselves if federal “hate crime” laws get passed, and if Hussein gets elected, they will.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Blame Canada!
ynot4tony2 on August 26, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Typical tactic by Islamists. Scream hate speech from the pulpit while whining about legitimate discourse from the so called infidels. Free speech will die out if this is not vigorously opposed and revealed for what it is. Jihad by other means.
Kuffar on August 26, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Don’t hold your breath. Today’s Canada would love to ban such groups (APSA) from organizing and meeting within it’s borders altogether.
edgehead on August 26, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Toronto is segregating their school system. I think that’s an even better reason to boycott them. Tell them three words: We Shall Overcome.
Just avoid Canada altogether. They waste space and contribute nothing to the world.
KillerKane on August 26, 2008 at 10:41 AM
America 2008:
Liberals won’t allow you to have a contrary opinion on their savior, BO.
Liberals won’t allow you to have a gun.
Liberals won’t allow you to speak positively about the military and their accomplishments.
Liberals won’t allow you to have a contrary opinion on Homosexuality.
Liberals won’t allow you to have a realistic opinion on Islam.
Oh so that’s how they’re turning this country into the new USSR, I get it now!
leetpriest on August 26, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Mansfield undoubtedly and Stoner probably attend a sort of sub-caucus of APSA that meets concurrently with the big meeting–the Claremont sponsored panels. If APSA decides to go to Toronto anyway, Clairmont may have to review its association with the APSA meeting. It’s always been great fun and allows conservative faculty and especially grad students to attend some conservative friendly panels under the cover of the general meeting but I can understand why they might want to make a statement by disassociating themselves from this one.
MargaretMN on August 26, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Yelling “FIRE” in a movie theatre for the fun of it or joking about having a bomb at the airport are also things technically things people should be allowed to say since they’re just words, but society has justifiably deemed that these “acts of free speech” are unacceptable.
Up here we extend that common sense monitoring of “free speech” to the banning of expressions of hatred and spite that could incite harm to a particular group. Don’t like it? Don’t come up here.
Next.
Dave Rywall on August 26, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Regardless of whether or not the APSA meets in Toronto next year, any additional pressure that can be brought to bear on the kangaroo courts is to be applauded. I wish them luck in their potential boycott and any distress it gives the Harper Government in the process.
bookem on August 26, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Check out some of the pending legislation Hussein would be likely to sign into law.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 10:46 AM
Sweet!
Nice to hear the voice of dissent (from the Right) in academia.
PattyJ on August 26, 2008 at 10:46 AM
The problem is that these laws apply even if what one says is true, as in the case of Steyn. Usually the truth is an absolute defense, as in the case of yelling fire in a burning theater.
Canada: America’s hat.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 10:48 AM
I think the
commissionskangaroo courts have learned a lesson from taking on loud and strong voices like Ezra Levant, Mark Steyn, and MacLean’s. From now on they’ll only take on the weaklings they can intimidate and shut down forever. Stronger voices will be ignored as the commissions really don’t want the embarrassment of having their 14th century methods exposed again.rigdown on August 26, 2008 at 10:51 AM
I see that drywall is in favor of banning anything he doesn’t want to hear.
Why am I not surprised?
MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2008 at 10:54 AM
Canada and Britain are quickly becoming ripe for armed revolution. It is sad to see the two nations crumble from within but it is the fact that their governments were not designed to grant freedom but to legislate what one cannot do. I think though I am not 100% certain that the US is the only country that defines the freedoms that shall not be infringed. We don’t have the privledge of free speech we have the right. Privledges can be taken away rights are permanent.
theguardianii on August 26, 2008 at 10:54 AM
drywall,
Should the commission go after the person who is declaring that all Jews in Isreal over the age of 18 should be killed?
Or is that not incitement to violence?
MarkTheGreat on August 26, 2008 at 10:55 AM
That’s like saying pancakes and flapjacks.
ronsfi on August 26, 2008 at 10:56 AM
MarktheGreat – who said that and where did they say it?
Dave Rywall on August 26, 2008 at 10:56 AM
Rywall..
read the text of Steyn’s speech..
then tell me again how that’s screaming ‘fire’ in a theater?
he pointed out the elephant in the room and everyone pretends to be shocked by it..
DaveC on August 26, 2008 at 10:57 AM
America’s speech is not so limited, and Mark Steyn’s words were just as freely available here. I must have missed the rash of hate-fueled crimes that followed its publication.
Slublog on August 26, 2008 at 11:02 AM
BTW..
I look forward to Rush going on vacation and Steyn fills in..
DaveC on August 26, 2008 at 11:03 AM
We don’t have the privledge of free speech we have the right. Privledges can be taken away rights are permanent.
theguardianii on August 26, 2008 at 10:54 AM
————
No, there are limitations to your free speech just like everywhere else, so spare us the chest thumping.
Dave Rywall on August 26, 2008 at 11:03 AM
The entire Muslim population..
DaveC on August 26, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Here is the speech:
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp
Vashta.Nerada on August 26, 2008 at 11:05 AM
sabbott on August 26, 2008 at 11:08 AM
I often agree with Mark Steyn. Maybe he will get tired of the B.S. in Canada and immigrate to the United States. He should blow Canada’s commisions a long raspberry if he does.
2theright on August 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM
DRywall, As I recall, Steyn’s book America Alone was quoted by McCleans, and therefore Steyn was as liable as McCleans under this tyrannical law.
If you quote the Bible’s prohibitions of sodomy verbatim, you can be hounded by the “human rights” commission for hurtning the feelings of sodomists. If you quote the Koran verbatim about the Muslim duty to kill infidels, you can get hounded for hurthing Muslims’ feelings. Ponder the irony of that juxtaposition and let us know when you get it.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM
The plaintiff in the suit against Steyn said it – thus the double standard. Read the link I placed earlier.
He did. It doesn’t stop the suit, however.
Vashta.Nerada on August 26, 2008 at 11:12 AM
We had better alert the Canadian authorities about Rywalls comments on HA
Flint Stone on August 26, 2008 at 11:12 AM
For more delicious irony, he said it on Canadian TV…
Vashta.Nerada on August 26, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Steyn shouted “Fire!” in a burning theater. Telling the truth should not get anyone in hot water. Let everyone say/write whatever the hell they want short of slander/libel, and let the chips fall where they may. The truth will out.
The problem with Brits and Canucks is that they have recently been subjects. We got over that a couple centuries ago. Maybe you’ll catch up eventually.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Don’t let Rywall fool you. Canada’s a great vacation spot and I’ve never had a problem with any of the people there or the many that visit my state.
It’s like a country full of Minnesotans.
Slublog on August 26, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Who is doing the chest thumping?
Or was that a different Dave Rywall?
Weak-kneed sheep are the first to fall when the wolves look for fresh blood.
hillbillyjim on August 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM
There is no such thing as free speech – just a close approximation of it. There are limitations to it. I know that’s hard to accept since it certainly tarnishes the whole USA # 1 thing.
Dave Rywall on August 26, 2008 at 11:23 AM
Unless their willing to become tha American Politically Correct, Political Science Association then I suggest they avoid Canada.
Have the meeting here; we still have some freedoms of speech-That is unless Barry O! get’s elected (God forbid!) in the fall
RocketmanBob on August 26, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Will you take this little test, please?
The truth is an absolute defense. Yes___ No___
Thanks.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 11:30 AM
Are you changing the subject because you read the link, and see that the guy charging Steyn is a terrorist, or are you just ignorant?
Vashta.Nerada on August 26, 2008 at 11:31 AM
You’re absolutely right – there is no such thing as truly free speech. However, I would argue that the right to free speech in the United States is a closer approximation. Not out of any pro-US fervor, but because we don’t believe in quashing the speech of some even if others will find it objectionable. Government should not be in the business of protecting people’s feelings.
Slublog on August 26, 2008 at 11:36 AM
NO NO NO!
You’ve got it all wrong:
APSA stands for taking a week off for its annual meetings the first week of classes and thus giving poli sci undergrads a free extra week of summer + the Labor Day weekend if this week is their first week of classes.
Vatican Watcher on August 26, 2008 at 11:46 AM
No problem, Dave, I won’t be coming up any time soon. Any way we can guarantee that the barbarians Canada is kowtowing to won’t be coming down here?
Filecchio on August 26, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Mark Steyn lives in New Hampshire.
As much as anything else, the defense of freedom of the press in Canada is a defense of the freedom of men and women in Canada to read whatever they think fit. We maintain that Canadians are adults, not children who need to be protected by special adults in the Canadian government. We also maintain that the adults in the Canadian government are just that, nothing more. The rulers are not a better class of human beings, and when they try to restrict what Canadians read, they tend to strive instinctively for their own goods: their own job, their own class, their own reputation, and their own fantasy of themselves as the Good and Just. We are trying to protect the freedom of Canadians to choose their own readings, rather than have them chosen by self-regarding fantasists.
Kralizec on August 26, 2008 at 12:03 PM
Yes,absolutely yes! Folks in USA best take a strong stand on this stuff now, because the PC crap is headed straight our way.
petefrt on August 26, 2008 at 12:06 PM
Your logic is flawed. In your example of yelling fire, it is very clear that if there isn’t an actual fire, the person yelling is clearly endangering the public by inciting panic.
However, ‘expressions of hatred and spite’ is totally subjective. In fact, it has been well documented that *any* criticism of Islam is very often seen as an ‘expression of hatred and spite’ by Islamic leaders.
cryptojunkie on August 26, 2008 at 12:10 PM
That’s just a strawman. The issue at hand is government sponsored, selective and malicious prosecution of blasphemy. And even worse, a sissified population that is content with such.
I live in Vermont and have enjoyed countless visits to Canada. But no more. Sadly the people who grow strawberries, make up hotel beds, operate ski lifts, and serve food in restaurants will pay the price for supporting an abusive government.
HelenW on August 26, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Those of us who see the faults of Americans, Canadians, and Dave Rywall will continue protecting ourselves and each other, as best we can, from having our writing and reading controlled by any of you. We are not deterred by the imperfections of our freedoms; we are reminded to go on striving by those very imperfections.
Kralizec on August 26, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Yes, there are limitations to our rights. That doesn’t make them not be rights.
For instance, the right to keep and bear arms is “limited” in that one is not allowed to use those arms to kill someone except in defense. That “Shouting ‘fire!’ in a crowded theater”, libel, slander, etc. are actionable no more invalidates free speech than laws prohibiting murder invalidates RTKBA.
It’s a tiresome argument from leftists that the existance of “any” legitimate limits to freedom of action somehow justifies all limits on liberty, including the most tyrannical. Having erected the strawman that we “anti-government” types are anarchists, they seek to immolate us when we “admit” that there are actually good laws.
Your structural framework is weak; you can’t plaster over it, drywall.
The Monster on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM
I personally think that, unlike the vagina, God made the rectum to be an exit point and not an entry point for sexual gratification. If I published an article that medically supported this thesis, would the speech police come gunning for me?
How about writing a pro-life article referring to pro-choice advocates as “pro-death”? Would that get me in trouble? I believe that life begins at conception and therefore believe that “aborting a fetus” is “killing a baby”. Would you say that that’s probably not a good idea to voice that conviction up “there”?
I’m a Christian commanded by our Savior to spread the Gospel. Can I expect a summons for sharing my faith?
Is there a website run by the
thoughtspeech police where one can get advice on what is currently acceptable to say in addition to what will get you hauled into speech court? Is it updated with each successive party that comes to power so that it reflects the current politically correct philosophy?Just wondering. Seeing you’re an expert on what can and cannot be said in Canada, I’m looking forward to your comments and advice. I’m coming up to Montreal in late September and want to be prepared. I have to admit though, it does feel a little bit like I’ll be traveling to old Russia, or perhaps current Saudi Arabia where the speech police are revered for their effectiveness at suppressing undesirable speech if not even thought! You must admire them greatly.
Thanks
Rod on August 26, 2008 at 12:32 PM
Dave Rywall isn’t very helpful in the defense of Canadians’ freedom to read MacLean’s or Mark Steyn, but he stands firm in the defense of ball-waxing videos.
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/003497.html#c53874
Kralizec on August 26, 2008 at 12:33 PM
But that’s fine in Canada, Kralizec. Just don’t tell anyone they’re going to perish eternally unless they believe the gospel.
Akzed on August 26, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Oh Daaaave,
You have eyes, (though you can’t see).
You have ears, (though you won’t hear).
Hear, see and learn now from the:
“Ezra Levant on The Michael Coren Show – Segment 3″.
Need more proof? Or are you going to put your fingers in your ears and shout “I won’t listen…I won’t listen” over and over again? Watch all 5 segments when you have the time…eh.
Next.
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on August 26, 2008 at 1:09 PM
I don’t know a whole lot about APSA, but I suspect that a significant number of their members have absolutely no problem with the kind of hate speech laws that the Canadian commissions are based on. APSA will probably do nothing, but kudos to the petition circulators for forcing the membership to confront the reality of such illiberal and ineffective legislation.
Infidoll on August 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM
I am a Canadian, soon to be moving to the USA.
The biggest problem with Canada is there are far too many people that think like Mr. DRywall, and they just make it worse with their smug attitudes.
Paradox Drive on August 26, 2008 at 1:33 PM
Welcome to the “home of the brave, and the land of the free” my friend, another one of us on the team.
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on August 26, 2008 at 1:40 PM
The recent incident where that young man was beheaded on a bus while his fellow Canadians did nothing to stop it and simply fled the bus says volumes about where Canada is headed.
Disturb the Universe on August 26, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Mr. Rywall seems to think that this is some sort of jingoistic attack on Canada. It is not. We would be even more vociferous in our attacks on the same policy in the US and effusive in our praise of Canada were the roles reversed.
It you truly wish to be proud of your country and denigrate the US then you need to increase the freedom of your citizens compared to the US. Bragging that you have government commissions who decide which opinions are helpful and which are harmful only makes you sound like what you are… a fascist.
I would also suggest you read up on Islam. Any hate speech code would necessarily have to start with banning the Koran since it is the only one of the major religions to give its opponents these three choices… convert, submit or die. No doubt you would know these things were people not prosecuted for pointing them out to you in your little corner of the world.
Ben Franklen on August 26, 2008 at 1:56 PM
Fixed it for you my friend.
Over.
1GooDDaDDy on August 26, 2008 at 2:05 PM
What has transpired now in Canada has long since been a reality in Europe. Maybe Europe should be boycotted as well? And Russia? And China? They all violate free speech. And the United States should boycot itself as well for the “flying imams incident”… The situation is far beyond the boycott weapon, and I believe it to be an opportune time to consider a more direct approach like forced repatriation of muslims from the West if we do not want to be overtaken by the prodigiously breeding Islamic Horde in a generation or two.
JC Silverberg on August 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Please America…please please invade us or at least my sane province of Alberta and take us away from this vile socialist country that we have become…
And likely, that Dave idiot that is posting here is probably from Toronto ….or Vancouver…that is where our resident leftist idiots mainly live…or probably a muslim…
At any rate, these idiots are not uncommon up here in Canuckistan…..
We will either go under their evil or eventually we will have to take up arms to preserve our freedoms….
Albertanator on August 26, 2008 at 2:34 PM
I live in Canada and I support a boycott. Unless change occurs I won’t be able to stand living here much longer.
Dusk Eagle on August 26, 2008 at 2:37 PM
I’ll just pat myself on the back for being right instead. Does that make you feel better?
I guess not being able to incite violence, or threaten to harm people, or making false claims that endanger the masses and good order is a limitation of speech or maybe instead its the proper use of free speech.
I’m afraid of what free speech I’ll lose should Barry become my president after all he is the one stifling free speech through the threat of legal action
theguardianii on August 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM
Yes, Canada needs to be less concerned about feelings and more concerned about freedoms.
That said, every country has faults and ours is no exception. The solution is to change hearts and minds, fix the problems, and move on. I love my country despite her many faults and I would gladly have my limbs ripped off and set on fire if that would somehow help her.
And to the Albertan who is making pleas to be invaded and annexed, shut the hell up. Our country is our country and you owe allegiance. Learn the meaning of patriotism.
If the US were to try invading again they would find a lot of conservative, pro-American gents like myself fighting to the last man on our side of the border. Using single-shot Lee-Enfield rifles no doubt, but so be it.
God bless our land.
Gaunilon on August 26, 2008 at 3:40 PM
I didn’t. My family had plans/reservations already made to spend our vacation in Canada this summer. We cancelled them after I learned of the commissions and then the Order of Canada being awarded to Morgentaler, Canada’s father of abortion. Other crazy things were coming out of Canada like the lunatic judge ruling against the father for disciplining his daughter by not letting her attend some school field trip and the like. I’ve been hearing a lot about liberal Canada and I decided I didn’t like it. So we didn’t spend the small fortune it costs to go on vacation these days there. We spent it here in the USA.
Exactly my thoughts.
pannw on August 26, 2008 at 4:36 PM
Some of you New Commenters on HotAir should know that “Dave Rywall” is a particularly dishonest and totally worthless troll here, who does little except toss out the Usual Stupid Insults at conservatives and Republicans while offering almost no factual content to any of his posts
His ilk are common in Canada, mixing a juvenile leftism with an unfocused hatred of conservastives, the military, America, etc, etc.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of “drywalls” in America, too, so it’s not a Maple Leaf Thing. The political culture up there is more passive and subservient, accepting government policies and programs with less dissent and debate than in the USA, but Dipsh+t Leftism is common enough all over North America
Dave, as I told you earlier, you make yourself more of a sad joke with each post…….
Janos Hunyadi on August 26, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Sorry Gaunilon, but I am an Albertan before I am a Canadian…Canada no longer exists for many of us…we are nothing but a pee cee gutless country….Trudeau did this to us…
Alberta is about the only sane place left in the Confederation…
I would welcome America taking us over….or at least Alberta seperating from Canuckistan!
Albertanator on August 26, 2008 at 7:52 PM
You know, if your provincial government enacted a bill to secede from Canada and join the US as our 51st state, it might make both countries move to the left.
The Monster on August 26, 2008 at 8:41 PM
I’m a new commenter but a very long time reader. There seem to still be a few bugs crawling around, Rave Dywall only being one of them. Thanks for the heads up though.
NTropy on August 26, 2008 at 11:06 PM