Awesomely awesome: Top Clinton advisors tell CNN they’re outraged by how she was treated; Update: Place her name in nomination for VP, urges Kristol
posted at 4:47 pm on August 23, 2008 by Allahpundit
The only way this could be more awesomely awesome is if it involved robots. As it is, I’m downright woozy at the thought of what’s in store on Tuesday night.
A top Clinton advisor also told CNN they were “outraged,” over how the process was conducted.
“You can’t put [Obama VP vetters] Eric Holder and Carolyn Kennedy on an hour plane ride to Chappaqua just to check the box? They should have done it just for the optics,” this person said. “Barack never even said to her, ‘Here’s how I envision the job’– not one discussion with her about [the position].”
“They thought her supporters were mad before? They are really mad now,” this person also said. We knew it was never going to happen but you would have thought they might at least make a show of it.”
Former Clinton strategist Paul Begala echoed similar frustrations on CNN Friday night.
“I think there are a lot of Hillary voters who are going to say, ‘Hey, wait a minute, man. You said you were going to put her on the short list. You know, you didn’t even vet her. You didn’t call her. You didn’t seek her advice,’” Begala said. “By the way, he didn’t seek President Clinton’s advice either. He’s actually the guy who I think picked the best vice president in American history. You would think maybe you would sort of check in with him.”
Says another Hillary insider to the New York Post of picking Greasy Joe, “Maybe it was a death wish.” Team Barry’s defense to CNN is that, between 16 months of oppo research on her and another 16 years of media scrutiny, she’s already been vetted as thoroughly as anyone could be. Which is sheer nonsense: They’d surely want inside details on Bill’s relationships with Ron Burkle and Frank Giustra, not to mention any extracurriculars on the trail over the past six months. There’s always more you can learn by asking, unless they’d seriously have us believe that the Clintons — the Clintons — have no secrets left to tell. Your unanswerable exit question, per CNN’s source: Why, oh why, oh why, didn’t Barry O simply have her in for an interview and check the box?
Update: Devilishly clever. It’ll never happen, of course, but the very thought of it fills my heart with malicious glee.
So Hillary Clinton gets about 18 million votes in 2008, and isn’t even considered for–she apparently isn’t even given the courtesy of being consulted–the vice presidential pick. Joe Biden manages to persuade a few thousand (if that) Iowans to support him. And Barack Obama selects Biden? Normally, if the VP pick came from that year’s presidential field, it’s the runner-up (Kerry-Edwards in 2004, Reagan-Bush in 1980, Stevenson-Kefauver in 1952). (Lyndon Johnson in 1960 hadn’t entered the primaries.) And Biden wasn’t even the third most successful candidate this year (hi, John Edwards!), or fourth (Bill Richardson, I suppose), or fifth (Dennis Kucinich!)…
A modest suggestion to my justifiably outraged Democratic friends: Hillary’s name should be placed in nomination not for the presidency (Obama won that more or less fair and square)–but for the vice presidency. It would be an interesting roll call vote.
I groused to a friend yesterday about how insane it is that nominees have to contest 50 grueling primaries/caucuses to win the nomination but the next in line to the throne if they’re elected is chosen purely on their own say so. If the wisdom of Democratic voters is trustworthy enough to pick the top half of the ticket (superdelegates notwithstanding), why isn’t it trustworthy enough to pick the bottom half? If Hillary was a little older and had no shot at a run in 2016, I wonder whether she wouldn’t drop the good-soldier pretense she’s displaying now and take a shot at this idea.
A tidbit from Rasmussen for delegates and PUMAs to mull: “Women are notably less enthusiastic [about picking Biden] than men—33% of women say Biden was the right choice while 27% disagreed. Men, by a 46% to 24% margin, said that Obama made the right choice.”
Blowback
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Ooooooooooooooooooooooo gawd,CNN yer killin me,
ya know,we are just perplexed and beside our self’s
as to the way(WE,CNN)treated Hillary!
Duh,is CNN just figuring this out,HilRod knew this back
when Billy besmirched the African American voter with her
campaign ending,”Fairy Tale” comment!
And the biased,Lefty MSM threw the Clintons under da bus!
canopfor on August 23, 2008 at 9:32 PM
George Will, 2006:
And conservatives should favor reducing illegality by putting illegal immigrants on a path out of society’s crevices and into citizenship by paying fines and back taxes and learning English. Faux conservatives absurdly call this price tag on legal status “amnesty.” Actually, it would prevent the emergence of a sullen, simmering subculture of the permanently marginalized, akin to the Arab ghettos in France. The House-passed bill, making it a felony to be in the country illegally, would make 11 million people permanently ineligible for legal status. To what end?
Sounds like a shamnesty kind of guy to me.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:37 PM
I duuno. Barry Goldwater I suppose.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:38 PM
Mckoolaid drinkers….
MB4 on Aug 23,2008 at 9:23PM.
MB4: I second TBOD(9:28PM.)Are ya votin McCain,and I
asked you yesterday,so don’t give me the *Liberal
Kabuki dance going in circles non-answer!
*(canopfor is not suggesting MB4 is in any way,shape
or form been referenced to a Lib,only in the the
Lib way of a non-answer!)haha:)
canopfor on August 23, 2008 at 9:39 PM
A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.
- Barry Goldwater
Hubert Humphrey talks so fast that listening to him is like trying to look at Playboy magazine with your wife turning the pages.
- Barry Goldwater
I think any man in business would be foolish to fool around with his secretary. If it’s somebody else’s secretary, fine.
- Barry Goldwater
I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle.
- Barry Goldwater
You don’t have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight.
- Barry Goldwater
It’s a great country, where anybody can grow up to be president …… except me.
- Barry Goldwater
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:40 PM
lorien:
It is interesting when you study the history and see how things have changed. Initially the President and the Senators were both elected by Representatives. {After all this is a Republic} John Adams once said that the greatest threat to our country was partisanship. But as time went on parties were formed and camps created.
I think a seperate vote for VP might be interesting.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:40 PM
depends on if you consider paying legal restitution, getting fingerprinted, a background check, and getting in the back of the line. “amnesty” or not.
Chakra Hammer on August 23, 2008 at 9:41 PM
If I remember correctly Barry Goldwater got beat. He also lost the black vote for the Republican party be refusing to support the Civil Rights Act even though Congressional Republicans voted for it. Lost opportunities there.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Time to pick a side.
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Everyone has their faults … … except Barry Goldwater.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Chakra:
You missed my point. I was only quoting something that George Will said. I was not trying to start a debate on immigration.
The next time MB4 quotes Will on the subject of John McCain it might be worth remembering what Will thinks of this issue. In other words, there is a quote for everything.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Indeed, the party of Sheets Byrd somehow sold the black community on the notion that the party that voted in higher %s for the Civil Rights acts was “the man” holding them down.
If Bowsmile gets 90% of a voting bloc it is “hope” if McCain were to pull the same trick in his own ethnicity it is “racism”.
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 9:44 PM
Even Barry Goldwater has his faults. His intentions might have been good, no doubt they were..but the result was Lyndon Johnson.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Been thinking about this Hillary for VP issue and asking myself how I would feel if I were a Democrat. In the first place, Hillary was the better candidate all along. The Democratic electorate has been horn swoggled by a fast talking, formless and feckless wraith who now you see and now you don’t. Yes, I’d be very angry about the whole thing from start to finish.
jeanie on August 23, 2008 at 9:45 PM
I pick them both to pick on. It’s only fair.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:46 PM
sven:
There was no somehow to it. Goldwater was open enough in his opposition to the bill that Martin Luther King came out against him. That was how he lost the vote. Eisenhower got 44% of the black vote. After that, the number fell to single digits.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:47 PM
No Republican would have beat Johnson that year as he got a sympathy vote from JFK’s assassination and people did not want at all to chance presidents again so soon. Goldwater was Reagan’s “Godfather”.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:48 PM
jeanie:
If the Democrats did not have such a screwy primary system Hillary would have won that thing. And more and more Democrats know that. They tried to make it fair and in the process made it too complicated and too long and anything but fair.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:48 PM
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Hey man, keep up the good work here being pretty much the only one who doesn’t seem completely drunk on the ‘McKoolaid’. I’ve learned now to simply scroll through all the comments and look for you and maybe highhopes as the only ones who have anything to say besides “I don’t care that McCain only gives me 1 issue out of 10, that’s better than Obama’s zero out of 10! And if you don’t vote for McCain, you are an Obama supporter!!!11!!”
As an aside, it’s funny to see people on here try to insult you or accuse you of being a secret DNC operative or Obama supporter. It makes it obvious to figure out who here are only recent HotAir comments readers.
Keep up the good work. I don’t have the patience for people on here anymore. As I stated in the “Maybe it’s a death wish” HotAir Headlines thread, this campaign is about one thing for each side anymore: Anybody but Republicans vs Anybody but Obama. Issues don’t matter. Nothing matters. The Left cares for nothing but getting a Democrat in office and the Right cares for nothing but keeping Obama out of office. Principles, values, being correct and a leader on the issues… out the window. All that matters is that the GOP say or do whatever they can do make McCain President, even if it means pandering or flip-flopping or lying on every single issue. McCain is the GOP-voters’ The One. He can do no wrong… because he’s not Obama.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your contributions here. You and one or two others (highhopes to name one) are the only reason I can bear to read the comments sections here anymore.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 9:50 PM
MB4:
Maybe not, but losing the black vote to the Democrats forever sure as hell did not help. Republicans have long resented the fact that they did not get credit for helping to pass the Civil Rights Act that the Dixiecrats fought so hard to stop. Well Goldwater is the main reason they did not get that credit. I think he was afraid of creating a new class of citizen. I am sure his problem with the legislation was not about racism, but about his idea of what government was about. I don’t doubt that. But the long term effect was the loss of an entire demographic.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Yes, but both played within the same rules. Complaining about the rules now is silly. It’s funny that Hillary didn’t grasp the caucus system though. And a little disturbing.
lorien1973 on August 23, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Michael:
I am not drunk on anything, but I am aware that there is a presidential race out there. On one side is McCain and on the other side is Obama. That is what I am focusing on right now. It is easy to find fault with people, but no amount of bitching chances the basic facts. McCain or Obama.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Equality of quotes may perhaps be a right, but no power on earth can ever turn it into a fact.
- de Balzac
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Michael:
Maybe some of the rest of us are looking at the larger picture. Complaining is not hard, neither is finding fault. People do it all day long every day. Easiest thing in the world. Sometimes facing reality is a lot harder.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:55 PM
“Vote for McCain otherwise you are an Obama supporter”
—HotAir commenters
“Vote for McCain, He’s Not Obama”
—HotAir commenters
Come on, get with the program, man. You know issues don’t matter anymore, only defeating Obama, at any cost to the nation’s political ‘soul’.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 9:56 PM
That’s an excellent philosophy. That way you can avoid all responsibility.
Welcome to the real world. See, people here in the real world are down to two choices and have to actually make a selection and that selection will affect the future of the real world. We could waste our time bitching and moaning and wishing there was another choice but wishing is for children. Adults have to make tough decisions and sometimes it involves picking the lesser of two evils.
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 9:56 PM
That’s an excellent philosophy. That way you can avoid all responsibility.
Welcome to the real world. See, people here in the real world are down to two choices and have to actually make a selection and that selection will affect the future of the real world. We could waste our time b!tching and moaning and wishing there was another choice but wishing is for children. Adults have to make tough decisions and sometimes it involves picking the lesser of two evils.
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 9:57 PM
O’bama wants universal health care an entitlement once passed never leaves. This ain’t 1993 where we were surging we have allowed people like the gang of 14 and the Moonbat Sedition Media to define and sully our brand. McCain will lead the party at most for 8 years.
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 9:59 PM
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 9:48 PM
You sure hit the nail on the head with that statement. I think they purposely do that so that the heads of party get the results they want and the poor voters are so confused they don’t know what the heck happened. So now I am going to make a racist remark, Obama did very well in the caucuses because it takes a lot of guts to vote against the first black candidate and take the chance of being labeled.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 9:59 PM
More Will:
Of the nation’s illegal immigrants — estimated to be at least 11 million, a cohort larger than the combined populations of 12 states — 60 percent have been here at least five years. Most have roots in their communities. Their children born here are U.S. citizens. We are not going to take the draconian police measures necessary to deport 11 million people. They would fill 200,000 buses in a caravan stretching bumper-to-bumper from San Diego to Alaska — where, by the way, 26,000 Latinos live. And there are no plausible incentives to get the 11 million to board the buses.
Facts, a conservative (John Adams) said, are stubborn things, and regarding immigration, true conservatives take their bearings from facts such as those in the preceding paragraph. Conservatives should want, as the president proposes, a guest worker program to supply what the U.S. economy demands — immigrant labor for entry-level jobs. Conservatives should favor a policy of encouraging unlimited immigration by educated people with math, engineering, technology or science skills that America’s education system is not sufficiently supplying.
See, some people do not agree on the facts. That is the problem. Sometimes even the facts are not the facts.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Goldwater got 5 southern states, I believe it was, that back then usually went democrat, that more than made up for any lost black votes, but it was as I said, no Republican would have beat Johnson that year as he got a BIG sympathy vote from JFK’s assassination and people did not want at all to chance presidents again so soon [the election was not even a year after JFK's assassination]. If the reincarnation of George Washington had run as the Republican nominee, he would have lost and big time under those circumstances.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Cindy:
They wanted to be a part of history. But once Hillary began to win primaries if they had a winner take all system, no super delegates..she would have had it.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:03 PM
Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That’s 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
But the carnage wrought by illegal alien murderers represents only a fraction of the pool of blood spilled by American citizens as a result of an open border and un-enforced immigration laws.
While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens, he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers – for another annual death toll of 4,745. That’s [another] 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 9:56 PM
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 9:59 PM
There are several contributors to HA that just don’t like Senator McCain and I don’t think you are going to change their minds. The beauty of the secret ballot is that THEY can change their minds in November and we won’t know. Or not. Be rational, not personal in your arguments.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:06 PM
The “larger picture” is that no matter who wins, the government of this nation is taking a dramatic shift leftward. If we graded the candidates on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 most liberal and 10 most conservative, we have Obama who is a 1 and McCain who is a 3 or 4. Therefore, 5-10 will now be considered “extreme right wing fringe” and the new scale is that a 5 (former middle) is now the “right”.
That is the reality that I am facing and preparing to deal with. I don’t see many more people here at HotAir facing that reality. But, like you said, it’s hard to face reality. Which is probably why people prefer to put all their faith in McCain, instead of face the reality that he is a liberal politician who is planning on doing major damage to this country. And after he wins the election without listening to conservatives, he sure as hell isn’t going to start listening to them when he goes to govern and the time comes for Amnesty, taxes for global warming legislation, making deals with the Democrats on the Fairness Doctrine, new legislation for his Campaign Finance/Speech-squelching ideas, making deals with the Democrats on universal healthcare and, the big one, making deals with Democrats to get Supreme Court judges appointed. He sure as hell is not going to fight for judges in the mold of Alito and Roberts, especially when they voted against his precious Campaign Finance legislation.
The “larger picture” is focusing on winning seats in Congress in 2010. Because the smaller picture is just as everyone’s favorite hottie pundit says “We’re Screwed ’08″. So when are people going to start calling Michelle Malkin an Obama supporter and secret operative of the DNC?
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:08 PM
MB4:
Yes, I remember that time and the reaction of people after the death of Kennedy. I was just a kid, but I do recall it. Most of the sympathy went to JFK’s family. However, Goldwater did not help himself either.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans want to remain citizens of their home country while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I, Mexico allowed German spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S.. During World War II, Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today, Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don’t believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.
- David J. Stoddard, 27 year veteran of the Border Patrol
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:03 PM
I find myself in sympathy with that line of thinking in some ways. Especially if I was black myself. I hope I am never in the position that I would throw away my core beliefs to be a part of history but I try not to judge. The super delegate deal is just stupid and another way the Democrat leadership took the final decision out of the hands of the voters. It is another reason I can understand why anyone would vote Democrat.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:11 PM
If Obama wins he will kill you and eat your children!
So vote McCain or #uck you
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:13 PM
Michael:
I think these shifts are constant and inevitable. Things went right with the Congress in the 90′s and then Bush..but now they are going further left. But I would rather see them settle somewhere in the center/right category than the just plain left category.
I also think that things will come back right some more again. It is only a matter of time. Perhaps all we can do right now is limit the damage done. McCain may not be as far right as you want, but he is Pat Buchanan compared to Obama. His voting record is in the 80′s on conservative issues. Obama is in the single digits.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:13 PM
The mainstream media nominated Obama with their constant adulation and refusal to ask him any tough questions or look into any of his past and even more than that they refused to investigate Edwards affair, child, and payoffs thus allowing him to sifon off enough Hillary voters to give 0 the most delegates and supers – supposedly!
It ain’t over yet the fat lady hasn’t sung and if I were a Hillary supporter I would be mighty mad. Mad enough to vote for a liberal Republican whos’ older than dirt so as to give my gal a chance in 2012.
Question is will the media bear any responsiblility for the upcoming Dem disaster they have created?
This could be an interesting convention/election year.
dhunter on August 23, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:08 PM
A lurch to the left with John McCain is better than a free fall with Democrats holding all the cards. I am with you on Congress, I just wish I saw candidates that I can get excited about. But I am an optimist, we will find them.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:16 PM
MB4:
You said:If Obama wins he will kill you and eat your children!
So vote McCain or #uck you
That was not really fair do you think? I don’t care who you vote for or if you vote at all. But I would like to be able to vote the way I want to without having to justify it to people who do not even seem to give a damn who wins or loses.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:16 PM
One day, a man named John McCain looked around at the senate where he was a long time senator and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through caucuses and primaries. He climbed over some candidates and went around others until he reached the Republican nomination.
The coming Presidential race would be a tough one, and so John McCain stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn’t see any way to win on his own. So he thought that he would probably lose. Suddenly, he saw some hopelessly naive conservatives blogging at a conservative web site. He decided to ask them for help in winning the election. “Would you be so kind, my friends, as to give me a hand in winning the election?”
“Well now, Senator McCain! How do we know that if we help you, you wont betray us?” asked the conservatives hesitantly.
“Because,” senator McCain replied, “If I betray you, then I would fail too, for you see I cannot govern without your support!”
Now this seemed to make some sense to the conservatives. But they asked. “What about when you get close to being elected? You could still start to betray us and might still win anyway!”
“This is true,” agreed senator McCain, “But I might well not be able to get enough conservative turnout to win the presidency!”
“Alright then…how do we know you wont just wait till you get elected and then betray us?” said the conservatives.
“Ahh…,” crooned senator McCain, “Because you see, once you’ve helped to make me president, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with betrayal, now would it?”
So the conservatives agreed to take help senator McCain get elected president. He edged out Barak Obama in a nail-bitting race and was inaugurated in January of the year 2009. Now president McCain immediately got a democratic majority in congress to enact full amnesty for all illegals in the United States and all of their relatives. He also nominated Hillary Clinton to the U.S. Supreme court along with Senator Teddy Kennedy’s wife. Both were confirmed.
.
“You fool!” croaked the conservatives, “You have betrayed us and you will never get a second term. Why on earth did you do that?”
Now president McCain shrugged and snickered and did a little jig..
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:16 PM
Where did I get personal with anyone but my Mother in law?
I just find this notion that says that since Juan Queeg blows off we conservatives a high% of the time and fell way too far in love with the M$M labeling him “Maverick!” that he is no different than Barack “Don’t be saying me middle name or I’ll hit you with me shillaleigh” O’bama. If you and I are both leading a race for the nation and my 8 year old only gets me to say “yes” 1 time out of every 20 but he gets you to say “yes” one time out of every 100 I think even he can deduce who better serves his interests. The GOP for whatever reason made up its mind back in ’96 that “Oh no we were punished for going after Beijing Billy! we need to moderate at warp speed”.
…………………………………..
By the end of their period in power they were spending like donks with no contrarian oversight and eventually got the rest of their base to say “so what?” when they lost power. Add in their dropping popularity in several swing states because of the inevitable party based scandals that erupt with power entranched long enough to go sedentary and there you have it.
…………………………..
The problem is that THIS democrat is by far the most dangerous one in my memory even more dangerous perhaps than LBJ because at least LBJ was genuine in loving this nation warts and all. Barry has the zeal of a true believer and is far too in love with Neo-$ociali$t art decor for my tastes. His avowed goal is to be remembered as the man who did for the US what the UK achieved through the labor party in ’40s postwar Great Britain……
Not while I can stop it.
———————
regards,
sven
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Which of these two men do you want sitting across the table from Putin?
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM
I see. So I expect all of you here have now turned on Michelle Malkin and criticized her for her b****ing and moaning about McCain, right? Is she a child for reminding people how pathetic a candidate is McCain?
Also, where were all the “adults” in the primaries? The ones who said “I support Guiliani/Thompson/Hunter, but the polls say they don’t stand a chance, so I am going to cast my vote for someone I don’t support at all (Romney/McCain/Huckabee), just so we can beat the Democrats”. If our country has now decided that nothing matters anymore, except spiraling down and down and down with the same old “lesser of two evils” crap, pretty soon the lesser of two evils will be between a Communist and a Marxist. And people will be berating me, because I refuse to vote for the Communist. Brilliant.
Ya know, our country was founded by men who refused the whole “lesser of two evils” crap. They stood for something more and they fought and died to revolt against their government to form a better country. It seems that attitude is gone from today’s Americans. Now, if one dares say that they don’t accept the status quo of “lesser of two evils”, we are children who are not making tough decisions. Makes me wish I were born in a better time, back during the founding of this nation, among better men who stood on principle.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
I would yell “SCRATCH HIS EYES OUT!”… but having already dealt with Clenis, I think that she would aim lower than Obama’s head…
CynicalOptimist on August 23, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Cindy:
The Democrats talk about de People a lot, but they don’t want them doing important things, like picking candidates.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Michael:
I came to Hot Air because of Ed Morrisey after he gave up Captains Quarters.. not Michelle Malkin. I would not turn on her, but then I am not really a big follower anyway.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:22 PM
I thought it was very fair, very fair, a bit exaggerated perhaps as is the nature of such satire, and very much to the point. In fact I think that it is a pretty darned fair summation of the philosophy of some here.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Welcome to the real world. Sucks being an adult huh?
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM
MB4:]
Such melodrama. No, I don’t think that Obama will eat my children or anyone else’s. And if you want to sit home come November…have at it. It is your life. Like Rhett Butler said, Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn.
{I always loved that quote}
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Michelle Malkin is Juan McVain’s worst nightmare.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:24 PM
I hate McCain. I hate McCain. I hate McCain.
I hate Obama. I hate Obama. I hate Obama.
I love Ronald Reagan. I love Ronald Reagan. I love Ronald Reagan.
“Entelechy, control yourself” ~ ~ Ronald Reagan
Entelechy on August 23, 2008 at 10:25 PM
And if he loses I hope she’ll have the courage to stand up and take a bow every time Obama pursues his vision of America.
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 10:26 PM
MB4:
I doubt that. I doubt if John McCain considers Malkin to be a nightmare. I just consider her another pundit, one of many.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
thought it was very fair, very fair, a bit exaggerated perhaps as is the nature of such satire, and very much to the point. In fact I think that it is a pretty darned
This coming from someone who says a vote for “Juan McCain” is a vote to allow the Mexicans to take over all of North America as well as a vote to let those diabolical Muslims sneak attack us in Iraq.
One needs a big shovel to read your baloney.
SteveMG on August 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Love and miss Ron every day. A lot of people here are breaking Reagan’s eleventh commandment.
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Not melodrama.
Are you sure?
In my state we vote only by mail now.
Rhett Butler was no Mark Twain for sure. He wasn’t even a Groucho Marx or a Fred Sanford.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Bill Clinton and the Democrats exposed their liberalism in 1993 and then the country woke up and put conservatives back in power in Congress in 1994. My vision used to be that the conservative movement would write off the Presidency in 2008, let Obama and the Democrats show their true colors as they did after winning Congress in 2006, and then have the conservative movement inspire the Conservatives in Congress to rise up… just like 1994. However, I see conservatives just going along with this lurch to the Left by the GOP and accepting it. If that remains the case, then no conservative movement will arise in Congress and we will continue lurching leftward.
Our government is a reflection of We, the People. If We, the People do not demand conservatism, no one in government will give it to us. When conservatives sell out and accept leftward movement, it sells out conservatism, exposes hypocrisy and inspires no one to be a leader.
I used to be an optimist. But reading HotAir commenters the last few months and their complete sellout of everything for the sake of electing McCain, I am no longer an optimist. There is nothing optimistic about a segment of the society which accepts as the country’s motto “lesser of two evils”. I guess that is now a new ideology: lesseroftwoevilism.
When I read conservatives tell GOP voters to get over illegal immigration, get over abortion, get over drilling, get over the fence and just get in line and vote McCain, I lose all optimism for the future of this country.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:28 PM
I love these phony battles the right tries to stir up.
I don’t think reheating Rove’s infantile tactics is gonna win it for you this time.
Better figure out a reason to vote for John F. McCain before it’s too late.
alphie on August 23, 2008 at 10:28 PM
sven10077, the esteemed Mr. Reagan is disgusted.
Entelechy on August 23, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Heh, my mother in law complained more about Billy Jeff than me and I complained about him a lot. The nice thing is though she “sure did teach Bush a lesson”……
/ha
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Ronald Reagan was the man who said that a Republican should not speak ill of another Republican. I think he would be horrified to think that people were using his memory as an excuse to rag on McCain.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:29 PM
alphie:
go play with yourself.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Shut up Ronald. I happen to prefer out of control women.
Tuco on August 23, 2008 at 10:31 PM
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM
You weren’t insulting and if you noticed there were two names. There are lots of valid points being made just make them.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:31 PM
If you say so. Alpo your kind won back in 2000 and 2004 as well eh? Oh I forgot you are a “really real conservative”…..
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:31 PM
So MB4, you do not think that crack about Obama eating children is melodramatic? Was it supposed to be funny?
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:32 PM
If McCain loses it will be on him and him alone.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:33 PM
What real conservative would blog about watching a porta-potty and dream of the day they festoon suburbia as a public service?
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 10:34 PM
Spoken like a true bystander
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 10:34 PM
It was clearly satire and I think it hit the target well enough.
Been “interesting” but must be off to see the Wizard now.
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Since you love quotes MB4, this one’s for you:
It’s not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or when the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. Theodore Roosevelt
TheBigOldDog on August 23, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Michael:
We the People is not just people like you. If you want the People to demand conservatism, then conservatives need to reach out to more people, they need to find a way to make their policies more attractive to people. They are not a majority, that is just a fact. Getting pissed because people did not support the kind of policies you want when they do not agree with your philosophy is pointless.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:37 PM
Just making certain I have been gone awhile and can be rather terse and sarcastic when the mood hits me. It is not my goal to break another conservatives will or subvert other people’s conscience that are not moonbats. This is a hard election and the GOP has screwed the pooch bigtime in my opinion for the ability to differentiate brands.
That said the time to exert control back over the future of the party is in the wake of victroy not enduring a marxist in power with dreams of subverting US Sovereignty in ways we can’t get back and who fancies himself “Messiah the LightWorker”. I challenge anyone to watch that horrid “American Prayer” and tell me there is no difference in play here. This is a very open cult of personality we face.
I have confidence that we will as has been the case for the last several elections do far better than the moonbats are saying in the house and senate. We may not win back control but I think we’ll eat into the margins. The GOP has a really big failing of late pretending every fight is a strategic one.
The McCain era is a tactical retreat for conservatism not a withdrawl. We have to make sure the party’s rising stars look more like Newt in ideology than Olympia Snowe or Arlen Specter.
……………………………..
sven
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Ahh satire.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Fine Mb4, if McCain loses it will be on himself. The same could be said of the people he beat out in the primaries too. But it won’t be. No, we will blame that on the media or the cross over Democrats or whatever.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:28 PM
I think you read what you want to read, I would hardly call the people on this site as “their complete sellout of everything for the sake of electing McCain,” but rather many, not all who are trying to be pragmatic about a less than perfect election. Is this a first for you? Have you always been totally enamored with your choices when voting? If so, all I can say is lucky you. May I also point out that you seem to really dislike Sen. McCain but don’t hesitate busting on MB4 for what you consider to be his stand and I’d be willing to bet you don’t know his stand.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Ugh. This has become a tired and sad talking point of McCain apologizers. Instead of spewing forth some irrelevant number, talk about the *issues*. Oh wait, I forgot, those things don’t matter anymore. Illegal immigration, Campaign finance, drilling, ANWR, border fence, oil speculators, global warming, closing GTMO, torture legislation… all those issues don’t mean anything. Only this magic 80% means anything.
Ugh.
Okay, I guess this is the new one: “Who cares if he is a liberal looney on illegal immigration, campaign finance, Illegal immigration, Campaign finance, drilling, ANWR, border fence, oil speculators, global warming, closing GTMO, torture legislation… he has an 80% lifetime voting record babey! Vote McCain, He’s Not Obama!”
This is where you have MB4 and I completely wrong. We care deeply about who wins and loses. We care if the country wins or loses. Putting faith in McCain or Obama and their liberalism is a loss for the country. Putting faith in conservatism and standing up for that no matter who wins is a win for the country.
You are right if you say that I don’t care if Obama or McCain wins this election. Because I believe – though less so after the last few months of reading conservatives sell out their principles and adopt McCainservatism – that this country, our Constitution, our Declaration of Independence, the fabric of this nation is bigger than any one man, be it Barack Obama, John McCain, President Bush, Nancy Pelosi, whomever. This nation is not symbolized by those people. This nation is symbolized by We, the People. We, the People, are this nation. However, what I see that seems to be happening is that people no longer believe in We, the People, they believe in “lesser of two evils”. They believe that we have to – *HAVE TO* – vote to keep Obama out of office or else this country is doomed – *DOOMED!*.
I don’t believe that. The only way I would believe that is if I stopped believing in We, the People to keep this country going in the right direction.
I have to tell you, the more I read HotAir comments and the whole lesseroftwoevilism, the more I lose faith in We, the People.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:49 PM
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 10:38 PM
No, your good and trust me, I agree with just about everything you have said. Even if Sen. McCain wins, conservatism is going to take a bit of a hit and it will be up to us to turn that around. Although I think we can safely say that McCain is a little closer to the former Speaker than are Ms. Collins and Snow. I have to keep reminding myself that they have to answer to their state voters and practically do handstands when the vote with the Republicans.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:50 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 10:49 PM
So what are you going to do? These are the choices we have and you want to belittle the people here for choosing one. I hate to break it you but you have placed everyone in a no win situation for your approval. Sorry you don’t have that power over me and I am sure most of the people here. If reading the posts on HotAir puts doubts in your mind about the people of this country, you didn’t think much of them to begin with. And if it is destroying those beliefs and yet you still read, then I think that says more about you then the folks posting on this site.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 10:58 PM
this reads like a Jim Hellwig post….
If Messiah the Lightworker gets into power with a bobsled course he will not miss the opportunity to ram through some paradigm breaking agenda. Things like universal healthcare will be a 30-70 year fight to eliminate and in all likelihood take a good 20 years to even make an ATTEMPT to control costwise. I have yet to see a socialized medical construct even start to deflate minus a backbreaking economic downturn.
Messiah the Lightworker just picked Joe “hey we need to show the Arab world we really don’t want to hurt them let’s give 200 mill no strings attached to Iran” Biden as his sidekick. Since there is such paucity in Barry’s resume I must look to those he surrounds himself with to try to plumb where his head’s at. I see Jeremiah Wright, Rezko, and Biden.
Not very comforting to me.
Life is a series of compromises and bargains the trick is to safeguard your morals and values enough to be able to maintain the fight another day.
I am not going to beat my chest and cry “what are ‘We the people’ failing at now” I am gonna try to do the best I can with what is on hand to safeguard a conservative future for my child by exerting whatever influence I can as a political animal on the system.
With Juan McAmnesty he will at least know he has to mollify me if not placate me on occasion.
Messiah the Lightworker….not so much.
sven10077 on August 23, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Michael:
I do not give a damn if you vote. I just want to be left alone to do what I think is best without being ragged on by purists who do not have a dog in this fight.
Do not tell me that you care deeply etc when you make it perfectly plain that you are holding out for a candidate that does not even exist, is not on the ballot and will not be running anytime soon.
You can turn your nose up at the 83% voting record and inform me that you will not sully yourself by voting for anyone with less than 100% or whatever, because unlike the rest of us sell outs you actually love your country.
gag me. You are just a purist who is more interested in ideology than in politics. Time and again I have heard the conservatives talk about Saint Reagan. Reagan said that it was more important to get half a loaf than to starve, he also said the most difficult people to deal with were the “radical” conservatives who would not give an inch.
You are confusing politics and the possible with your own personal philosophy. As such you have decided that it is better to sit it out. Or something.
Fine. Suit yourself. But I am voting for John McCain.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Ah yes. Hmm, were you paying attention in 2007? With the huuuuuuuge revolt against the evil, evil Amnesty? John McCain was the enemy! He was a traitor! He was calling Americans racists and bigots and unpatriotic if they were not supporting illegal immigration. Remember that? The *majority* of the entire nation was against Amnesty.
And then….
One year later those same majority of people who rose up against Amnesty nominated the one who led the charge to implement it.
I’m not angry with people who don’t support the policies I support/conservatism. I’m angry with people who are absolute hypocrites who rise up against something one year and don’t give two rat droppings about it the next.
The majority of GOP voters are against McCain and his policies. I don’t have to convince them of the policies I support/conservatism at all, because they already support them. But the majority of GOP voters apparently threw conservatism out the window for “pragmatism” (ie, I’m going to vote for whomever the polls tell me can beat Hillary/Obama) and “lesseroftwoevilism”.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 11:03 PM
The fence is being built, there have been raids on businesses and people are self deporting. It’s not complete but it is a start and if it starts to go back the other way or the progress needs to be quickened than people will rally again. Can I ask just who it was in the primaries that floated your boat because I thought the whole bunch was pretty ho hum.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 11:08 PM
Busting on MB4 for his stand? What are you talking about? MB4 and I are on the same page with regards to McCain. I think the only thing MB4 and I disagree on is the war effort in Iraq. He believes we should not have gone, since we’re never going to fix that place and I believe we were right to do so, and I believe history will show that we influenced the Middle East in a good way in the long run.
But as far as John McCain is concerned, MB4 and I are on the same page.
You may not recognize me, since I haven’t been commenting here much the last few months, but I’ve commented quite a bith with MB4 in the past. Entelechy knows of me as well. I’m a long time reader of this site and long time commenter (just not commenting much the last couple months). Any “busting” on MB4 I do is merely sarcasm. Or did you miss the comment I made to him telling him to keep up the good work, saying his and the comments of highhopes were the only thing that keeps me coming back to read the comments section?
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 11:10 PM
Michael:
You need to work on that chronology thing. The socalled revolt you are talking about was in 2006 and it was followed by the Democrats taking control of the Congress with Nancy Pelosi as the Speaker of the House.
John McCain won the primaries because the majority of the GOP preferred him to the other candidates. He had no money and was said to be done for, but he won. Tom Tancredo did not.
and how huge was that revolt? When Bill Clinton was being impeached just as many called in to complain about that. It shut down the Senate phones. But the House impeached him anyway. The people were calling in were mostly Democrats so what did they care? This time there was a call in to stop that bill? And what was the result? Nothing, we are pretty much where we were..except, Obama, a man who supports giving drivers licenses to illegals is silghtly ahead in the polls and he is take on as VP a man who supports open borders.
And they just might win. So yes, Michael, like it or not most people are not conservatives. Most people are not liberals either. Most people are moderate. That is the single largest self identified group.
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 11:10 PM
I obviously did miss that like you missed my comments about MB4 being an enigma but you still haven’t told me who your candidate was in the primaries.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Clinton has no one to blame but herself. Whether or not she was best candidate seems irrelevant in light of the fact that she made very poor decisions, didn’t manage either her team or her money well, and she misread the electorate (which isn’t a great endorsement for her as a president). The rules being different from the GOP’s is irrelevant; everyone worked under the same rules, and everyone knew them in advance (well, except for Mark Penn, apparently). And if she really wanted the Veep slot, not conceding that night at the end of the primaries was a rather boneheaded way to go about it. Her message decisions, personnel decisions, and management decisions cost her; Obama beat her on these down the line.
okonkolo on August 23, 2008 at 11:21 PM
There is no such ideology as “moderatism”, so I doubt most people are “moderates”. I bet 99% of people have opinions on everything. Some of those opinions align with conservatism, some align with liberalism, some align with Communism, some align with Marxism, etc. And then there are some people whose opinions are mostly liberal and a little conservative and then some whose opinions are mostly conservative and a little liberal. But there are no “moderates”. There are simply people with opinions, who simply don’t always agree with conservatism or liberalism, so they call themselves “moderates”. But, in fact, they are people with opinions which line up with some ideology of one form or another. But “moderatism” is not an ideology.
But, if you want to define “moderate” as someone who has opinions of conservative, liberal, Marxist, Communist, etc ideology on different issues, then fine. In that case, I don’t think liberals or conservatives even exist, since I don’t think anyone is 100% conservative or 100% liberal.
The candidate who most matched my ideological views on issues was Fred Thompson. Next was Duncan Hunter. Next after that was Mitt Romney. I voted for Fred Thompson in the MI primary even though I knew he didn’t stand a chance.
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Terrye on August 23, 2008 at 11:13 PM
So was Tom Tancredo Michael’s guy?
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 11:31 PM
Here’s a thought:
McCain’s VP pick is…Hillary Clinton.
Now i know there’s a lot of problems with that, but wouldn’t that make a really interesting DNC? have Hillary the first day give this speech thanking everyone and the usual crowd suck up, and end with “Also, John McCain has picked his Vice predisent..Me” and leave the stage.
LordDaMan on August 23, 2008 at 11:36 PM
Is the bloom off the Obama rose yet?
Paul-Cincy on August 23, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Michael in MI on August 23, 2008 at 11:26 PM
Well I must admit that Fred was also my favorite but the fact remains that he didn’t win. And while I know we are piling on, you are pretty insulting to people who are making the one of only two possible choices. MB4 says a lot of insulting things about the candidates on both sides but he doesn’t insult the people who post. You on the other hand don’t hesitate. And on top of that you want to attribute your lack of confidence in the country, the people and the ability of the Constitution to survive a McCain presidency to the “lesseroftwoevilism” folks at Hot Air. What is it exactly that you hope to accomplish with your posts.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 11:44 PM
Paul-Cincy on August 23, 2008 at 11:39 PM
Probably not but we live to dream.
Cindy Munford on August 23, 2008 at 11:45 PM
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