New RNC ad: Being a friend to Hispanics means supporting amnesty
posted at 7:54 pm on August 22, 2008 by Allahpundit
And so, after two years of pounding Geraldo Rivera for reducing a complex issue to its lowest, crudest, most demagogic common denominator, we find that our own party leadership agrees with him. Do you have Hispanic friends? No you don’t, not if you’re one of the 69 percent who prioritizes border enforcement over, ahem, “comprehensive immigration reform.” The boss has an English translation but I’d like confirmation from our Spanish-speaking readers, as I simply can’t believe the RNC would stoop to this. Is this an accurate rendering of the beginning?
How do you know someone is a friend?
You know because they stand up and defend you when it is hard.
When Hispanics needed a friend in Congress during the immigration debate… Who stood up? Who spoke out?
John McCain.
Note: This isn’t Michelle’s translation, it’s the version that the RNC’s sending around, so it expresses their intent even if the Spanish version doesn’t precisely match. Exit question: What’s the difference between the insinuation here and the insinuation … here?
Blowback
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None. All of my employees are legal. Or at least, that’s what they want me to think!
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:32 PM
Surely you just love the E-Verify system right? ha ha
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:33 PM
Is english your first language? You sound like a immigrant from vietnam who speaks like that. Such as “you go home now” “You stay here two hour” “my shop not you home”
“why you leave out the word illegal” is not a proper sentence in the queens language.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:33 PM
Yes. I’m always impressed with the argument that illegals are all thieves. That’ll work wonders!
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:33 PM
I gotta go. Talk later.
Antonio Villaraigosa…
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:34 PM
$$$
FloatingRock on August 22, 2008 at 10:35 PM
All the time? You used to try to get people banned when you got the impression somehow that you were appointed Master Blogger or owner of Hotair. I seem to recall AP having a little talk with you about that. Have you forgotten all that already? And now you think that I am your personal secretary?
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:35 PM
BTW, how’s the burglary rate in your neighborhood?
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Yes. I’m always impressed with the argument that illegals are all thieves. That’ll work wonders!
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:33 PM
There is none. They’re all hard working law-abiding people…ha ha ha
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:35 PM
But the content, and implication, is 100% correct.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Not quite. There have been SIX additional amnesties since the big one in 1986.
And it STILL isn’t working! I wonder why?
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:36 PM
I didn’t accuse you, I asked you a question since I don’t know and there is a hell of a lot of people here who are against McCain and seem to want to help as many other people here come to that conclusion.
Abortion? Is that what you are talking about? Obama is pro choice, and McCain is pro life. Unless he was lying at the saddleback thing when he said he has a prolife history that goes back 25 years in the congress and senate.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:36 PM
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:35 PM
Are Wise Man and The Race Card little bitch**?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:37 PM
You don’t consider stealing residency a theft?
Why not take the locks off your doors and let anyone in your home.
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Wise Man and The Race Card? Hmmmmm
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Because the rest of what needs to happen, as I laid out in my post
does not pass. We’ve only done the amnesty–and I’m honest enough about my position to call it that–without strict enforcement rules passed at the same time.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM
I did something similar to how you describe it for about a day or two. A month ago. I have since stopped.
You and your buddy misterpeasea keep bringing it up, repeatedly. You won. I’m not allowed to say that ever again. Yet you and him constantly bring this up, repeatedly. So why is it that I am in the wrong, and youre allowed to do this all the time? It’s confusing. I do have another explanation, but you wouldn’t like it.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Given that the government is unwilling to enforce the bills it passes; what makes you think that a new “deport everyone” bill would ever succeed? It’s time for something that will work, reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. Cities, employers and individuals.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:40 PM
“wise_man”, unable to see nuance, seeing but not observing, hearing but not listening, and still desperately in search of a brain and a clue.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Just when I thought I’d vote for McLiar! Two words…F him! And screw the moderates trying to take over the party! Watch for the reversal in the polls!
jwp1964 on August 22, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Are you speaking to your imaginary friend here?
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:40 PM
I see. I missed your previous comment. Still, makes no sense.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Just want to introduce a little reality check to our immigration debate here. We all get a little heated when it comes to immigration and some other issues some of us don’t like McCain on. But we need to realize that we agree with each other 90% of the time. Even on immigration. We all agree that the border should be secured. We all agree that illegals that come here and don’t work or just commit crimes should be deported. We all seem to agree on workplace enforcement. There are people that start talking about “staying home”, voting third party, or even voting for Obama just to “stick it to McCain” whenever these immigration (or the other issues in the 10%) come up. Just a reminder about what we’re up against. What the only alternative is. How we might not even have a country to make these arguments over if Obama is elected and starts “talking” to (read:appeasing) the terrorists. It’s great that we’re having this spirited argument over an issue as complex as illegal immigration. And it’s great that they’re are some disagreements. But we all agree on most aspects of the issue. And we know Obama is to the left of McCain on all aspects of the issue. So let’s not get irrational.
/lame ass “pep-talk” or whatever that just was
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:42 PM
That’s not my login name. Why do you feel compelled to do as misterpease does … repeatedly.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:42 PM
I do not consider a bunch of illegals living in an apartment somewhere, working 12-14 hours a day doing whatever they do, any form of theft, no. At least they are working and living on their own hard work.
If the illegals are not working – breaking laws and taking tax dollars – then get rid of them. Otherwise, their life, their choice.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:43 PM
The point is that, after the experience our country has already had (that you readily acknowledge) there is nothing to do now but enforcement. If we can’t enforce our laws now then everyone knows the US will just fill up with illegals again and we won’t do any more enforcement in the future than we are doing now – and for the same reasons.
Because of this, there is nothing important today but interior enforcement. That is it. No amnesty of any way, shape or form is acceptable at all, especially since the amnesties are nothing but tools to relieve ourselves of the need to enforce – as all the arguments for amnesties readily admit (e.g. “we could never deport 20,000,000 …”).
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:43 PM
I disagree with you sometimes and have been a little harsh on you when you defend McCain on some things. But some of these people take it to a whole new level, don’t they? In the words of Chris Crocker…“LEAVE WISE_MAN ALONE!”.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:44 PM
If the illegals are not working – breaking laws and taking tax dollars – then get rid of them. Otherwise, their life, their choice.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:43 PM
Send them to Florida!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Our country, our choice. That trumps the choices of non-Americans.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:46 PM
We need some semblance of law and order. While I’m in favor of an amnesty, I only favor one where a strict enforcement regime is in place. People here illegally live an underworld, black market, lawless, and fearful life. That is not good for the immigrant either.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 10:46 PM
If they’re here LEGALLY, they have nothing to worry about.
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:48 PM
To them I am a troll for McCain, malan89. A shill. This is of course not true, and the sanctimonious thugs who call me this feel completely justified. Yet they seem to enjoy trolling me and doing all sorts of things in retaliation for not being on their side, countering them and their claims and not being silent when I see things that they and others do and I object to.
I guess this is how they want to behave, maybe they feel justified in their actions. It’s really hard to tell. I can’t get inside their heads as to why. Not really sure I want to, to tell the truth about them.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Their choice in their country…
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:48 PM
Stop being so damn whiny. Drop and give me 25! We do not “keep bringing it up, repeatedly”. I have told you a million times not to exaggerate (I am giving you an opportunity to attempt to understand “nuance” here at no extra charge).
Now go away and stop bothering me, flea.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:49 PM
In any event, seems like it’s slowing down. Time to enjoy the evening and spend less in front of the computer. Later. Enjoy the weekend.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:49 PM
That’s why I think some sort of path to citizenship is necessary for those that work and are law abiding. Get them out of those shadows, help them earn competitive wages that americans earn. The criminals, the slackers can be shipped on home.
Telling them that they are gone no matter what is a stupid policy. And it’ll never happen.
Hardliners don’t get that.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:50 PM
You were asking for a good reason not to “amnestyize” the “illegals with jobs that don’t commit crimes outside of their illegal status and don’t take welfare” earlier. How about the fact that we already tried it? If we have to just magically legalize people every 20 years, what good is it? They’ll know that our laws mean nothing and will continue to skip the line. I’m not saying they can’t come back or anything, but we need to be fair. Why do you feel more sympathy for the people that skipped the line than for the people that wait their turn? I just don’t understand it.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM
While I disagree with you on the amnesty part, I think you would admit that the only way to know that we have an effective enforcement regime in place is after seeing it actually work for years and prove itself. But if we granted an amnesty (even partial) most people would no longer be “illegal” and there would be nothing to enforce.
The only way for us to know that we are actually enforcing our own laws is to see it happening “in the wild”. Granting any sort of amnesty (beside all of the other objections I have) skews the population (by label) and renders it impossible for us to know if we are enforcing laws or not.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM
They are both pro-amnesty
Both will screw this country if given the chance
Obama will not have the decency to give a reach around.
McCain may give you a reach around however in the end he still will put his private parts in your private parts.
It comes down who will F up the country less.
Do you understand now?
F15Mech on August 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM
But you also agree we have not yet had a real enforcement regimen, I assume? Many illegals have lived their entire lives here, knowing no more about Mexico than you or I–especially those brought over as minors with no knowledge of their illegal status. This type of situation calls for compassion in application of the law. I am not in favor of another amnesty without real enforcement thereafter.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM
Nuance, just for your, wise-man..
DaveC on August 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM
That’s why I think some sort of path to citizenship is necessary for those that work and are law abiding. Get them out of those shadows, help them earn competitive wages that americans earn. The criminals, the slackers can be shipped on home.
Telling them that they are gone no matter what is a stupid policy. And it’ll never happen.
Hardliners don’t get that.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:50 PM
We already have a path to citizenship. They refused to follow it! YOU don’t WANT to get it! Send them all to your house…
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM
Better brush up on your espanol, fellow HA’rs.
Amnesty for illegals is coming whether we like it or not.
Today in Florida, local authorities finally apprehended three suspects of Hispanic origin for a rape and robbery spree that’s been going on since July.
The ringleader, a twenty year old illegal immigrant from Mexico who, with his accomplices, tied up a husband in his home while they raped his wife in the shower and then stole money and computers from their home, was arrested and released TWICE before his raping spree finally caught up to him.
Sleep well, folks. Expect to see more of this stuff.
Et tu Brute on August 22, 2008 at 10:52 PM
you.. not your.. damnit.. preview is friend.
DaveC on August 22, 2008 at 10:52 PM
It’s NOT amnesty (it includes a fine).
It’s REWARDS (they get to keep what they came here to steal – residency)!
No matter how high and wide a wall we build (and we should build the damn wall!) we will NEVER stop the flood of future illegal border crossings unless we stop rewarding current illegal behavior. We have given
amnestyrewards SEVEN times since 1986, and the rewards keep working, with exponentially more illegal behavior by border crossers.Rewards = more of the same behavior.
Punishment (or at least no rewards) = less of the same behavior.
Am I the only one who didn’t skip class in Psych 101 that Friday afternoon?
Do you remember the news stories about the increased flood of border crossings in the Spring of 2006 when “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” was starting to be discussed in Congress? Even the MENTION of rewards increases illegal behavior.
We have to stop rewarding illegal behavior and deny what the illegal alien came here for – residency.
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Armed robbery should not be punishable if the perp has children….I get that!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Get a clue. Observe and ponder your behavior.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:53 PM
I’m not so sure we don’t already know what works. Illegals are here for jobs–heavily penalize the employer, jail time for offenders, a big fence, and assert the federal prerogative to write laws regarding citizenship and foreign policy to eliminate sanctuary states/communities.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 10:56 PM
You assume correctly.
That argument doesn’t move me. Their parents made choices for them. They can blame their parents.
Sorry, Bryan, but I split with you here. If the law is supposed to be compassionate towards anyone, it’s towards those who belong here. You may find me heartless but I really don’t care what their problems are, and if I did then I would try to solve it through donations to private groups to help illegals who are being deported. But I will not budge an inch on the idea that the US government should be enforcing these laws based on the hardships of the illegals. They can move pretty quickly, when they want to. If they wanted to leave the US, they’d be out of here in no time.
I understand, but I’m saying that an amnesty will almost definitely (I have no doubt about it) preclude any possibility of real enforcement. If we were ever going to really enforce our laws, we’d just do it now.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:58 PM
I should probably follow you admonition as the last time I kept responding to “wise_man”, “She who must be obeyed” found out and admonished me not to “fight with” a flea. I am not sure if she felt sorry for “wise_man” or thought that “engaging” him was beneath my dignity, or anybody’s dignity for that matter, but “She who must be obeyed” was not pleased.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:59 PM
I agree. But telling them that they have to go back and wait in line behind the people that didn’t decided to skip the line and pay back taxes plus interest to the American people (not the dopey little $5000 parking ticket fine that the Shamnesty Bill proposed) is the common sense way. I’d be willing to give them ONE second chance to get it right and come in legally. I’d be willing to forgive their initial crime of completely ignoring the borders of a sovereign nation IF they followed those terms. And they won’t get to come in until every single person that followed the law and applied to come in legally gets across.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:59 PM
Fence, first and foremost..
no more ‘Mexican Militia Maneuvers’ on this side of the Rio Grande..
second, deport the BAD criminals.. MS-13, gangster types.. clean out the prisons..
third, penalties on employers who hire day laborers or someone named ‘Adam Jones’ but looks Diego Sanches..
forth, withhold federal money to any ‘Sanctuary City’..
after that, the rest of the ILLEGAL population should start to take care of itself.. it’s work in some cities already.. the Illegals have moved to some other sucker cities that do cater to them.
checked preview.. looked good.
DaveC on August 22, 2008 at 10:59 PM
I’ve mentioned in other posts what I think needs to be done beyond a wall. We do stop the flow once we get serious about enforcement–I just want to not be unduly harsh on those illegals here by no knowledge or fault of their own.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:00 PM
There you go again.
All illegal aliens are deportable. What I have always advocated is attrition by enforcement with no rewards, not mass deportations.
Check out how it’s working at the state level. And if Pelosi will allow a vote on the SAVE Act, we’re just fine!
Illegally entering our country IS bad behavior. I don’t want to put them in jail – I just want to stop the rewards that McCain-Kennedy would bestow upon them via the Z visa.
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 11:02 PM
I participated in the threads that lead to AP’s warning to wise_man and, though I haven’t been around much lately so can’t judge for myself if he’s made an effort to reform, if he has, perhaps it’s time to ease up on him about some of his pre-warning behaviors.
But certainly any idiosyncrasies that have continued are still fair game.
We’re screwed ’08$
FloatingRock on August 22, 2008 at 11:02 PM
The Boss?
DaveC on August 22, 2008 at 11:02 PM
The end result of rich, white-guilt riddled, country club douchebags taking over your party.
Now I know how all those Blue Dog Dems must feel.
SuperCool on August 22, 2008 at 11:03 PM
It is rather difficult to join those two together. I don’t think that as a practical matter that it can be done. I would also prefer something “a bit more” than just a “semblance of law and order”, as a “semblance of law and order” could mean an overnight in jail for rape.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:03 PM
That’s all fine, but you didn’t include the most effective one: deportation.
Look, my view is that an amnesty of any sort will lead to secession votes in the Southwest (and then in other spots, trying to be fashionable) and will lead to the dissolution of the United States. This is the scenario that I believe to be highly likely to transpire in the next few decades if an amnesty occurs. That is just ot let you know where my very strong opposition is coming from. I do think that surrendering our sovereignty to the horde (which is what it is) will be the beginning of the end. To me, amnesty is a very, very serious matter.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 11:05 PM
I actually lived in Bishop Arts, Van Buren & 8th. Love Hattie’s and Vera Cruz. Small world. Maybe one day we’ll have a Metroplex HotAir get together!
mrsmwp on August 22, 2008 at 11:07 PM
Not Michelle, another even more powerful “boss”.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:08 PM
With the usual disclaimer–IANAL– I know that the law does not necessarily equate with what is just, but laws are meant to serve the public’s interest. It serves nobody’s interests to destroy the lives of those who’ve not intended to break the law. There is a difference in intentional versus non-intentional crimes, and the law’s response is different accordingly.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:09 PM
I’ve mentioned in other posts what I think needs to be done beyond a wall. We do stop the flow once we get serious about enforcement–I just want to not be unduly harsh on those illegals here by no knowledge or fault of their own.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Then why do they SNEAK IN? Because they KNOW they’re breaking the law!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 11:10 PM
For a moment, imagine you’re a poor farmer in Mexico or Guatemala. If there is HOPE that you might gain legal residency after illegally sneaking into our country, would that not encourage you to risk your life crossing the desert and murder by coyote/drug smugglers? That is the harsh treatment I want to avoid.
We have to stop encouraging future illegal aliens by not rewarding current ones.
If you feel guilty about strict enforcement, maybe you should call for a “Marshall Plan” for Mexico, et al.
I don’t think the solution to other countries’ economic problems should be anarchy in ours.
Anarchy breeds these stories (left hand column).
Good night!
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 11:11 PM
You do understand the rhetorical device of intentional understatement when responding to another’s argument that differs a lot from yours, right? Oh wait, that’s right, your “arguments” typically resort to some sort of spanglish jibber-jabber.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:12 PM
I have more than just illegal friends, I have illegal relatives. Small price to pay to get rid of all of those burdens on our society.
Tim Burton on August 22, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Everybody in prison says the laws are unjust as well. Spoken like a true criminal.
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 11:13 PM
Lorien…….. it would be one thing if a single family was living down the block, we surely could all live with it.
But whey you take the true figure of 30 to 40 million, not the “12 million” the MSM and Federal Government want you to believe, it is a very serious problem…….
Bottom line……. these people should be back in their own countries fighting, and possibly dying, for reforms and freedom that our citizens have had to, and continue to fight for to this day…………. not coming to this country as a “release valve” to the dictators and corrupt governments that propogate this problem for another generation………..
Been to Tijuana lately………….?
I grew up going down “south” for lobsters and surf…… today, you could not pay me, since “guns are illegal in Mexico“.
With repect, keep your “school yard ideology of a perfect world” to yourself, unless you truly know what you are talking about.
Seven Percent Solution on August 22, 2008 at 11:13 PM
OK. I see your point from the angle of the cultural impact of large numbers of immigrants. I agree that this is a serious concern. But I think we can stop immigration from getting out of control at today’s levels of immigrants. I do not think California is yet the Quebec of the US. Moreover, I think a more balanced approach is politically more likely to be achieved.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Reprint -
I long ago got sick and tired of the sleazy chuck-and-jive shamnesty politicians of which John McCain has been the chief ring leader. The reason that Republican supporters of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” want it is so that they and/or their campaign contributors can have serf labor. They would probably prefer actual out-and-out slaves but that is illegal.
The reason that shamnesty Democrats want this is so that those who are now illegal can become legal and vote for them. Many of them probably also want to do this for the same reason that shamnesty Republicans do too.
Does anyone think that many of these shamnesty politicians really care one wit otherwise for the illegals.
Does anyone think that any of the shamnesty politicians are going to invite these Mexican Indios and Mezclados to join their elite/exclusive golf clubs?
Come to live in their gated communities, other than as servants?
Invite them to their yachts, other than as low paid deck hands and/or servants?
Invite them to their cocktail parties?
Introduce them to their daughters?
The big majority of the Mexicans who have come here/will come here are Indios and Mezclados, not the Spanish descendant light-skinned ruling class of Mexico. This is a form of ethnic cleansing by Mexico’s ruling class.
So the shamnesty politicians like John McCain are aiding and abetting and facilitating ethnic cleansing.
If the U.N. were not such a joke, they would all be standing trial for trying to reintroduce a form of latter-day-slavery in the United States and for the mass ethnic cleansing of Mexico.
A little overstated? Perhaps.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:15 PM
AND THERE IT IS!…….. (not so) Wiseman has spoken. He’s going to continue defending McCain on all issues no matter the facts because this was an RNC ad.
Hey idiot! You don’t think the RNC consults with the candidate before running this kind of stuff? This is a backdoor way of McCain advertising that if liberals elect him he’s going to betray the GOP once again and ensure that all the illegals are well taken care of under a McCain administration. God how I am going to love nailing you to the wall for all your irrational and unquestioning support of McCain should the man get elected. If McCain loses do yo intend to start defending Obama or are will you just turn into a puddle of remorse seeing that you offer no differentiation between Obama and McCain than the former is the devil and the other is as faultless as Christ Himself?
highhopes on August 22, 2008 at 11:16 PM
I do not think California is yet the Quebec of the US. Moreover, I think a more balanced approach is politically more likely to be achieved.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Yeah. Build the Fence. Cut off taxpayer benefits. Workplace enforcement. Enforcment by attrition, etc…that’s balanced. And maybe if our Border Patrol agents are theatened, shoot to kill. All this crap would stop overnight!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Well, Bryan. We are just at odds on this general point. Illegals intentionally choose to remain illegals in the US every single day (and the minors fall under the intentions of their parents). They can move when they want to, as we see every time they are pressed and a whole bunch leave in no time to run to a friendlier place. I remember one crackdown somewhere in the South, I think, had a whole slew of illegal families making it all the way to Canada in less than a week.
I just don’t feel any sympathy for them. We were very nice to them, allowing them to come and go for a long time (the old migrant farmers we used to study about in elementary schools – who are now ‘immigrant farmers’ probably) but they abused our generosity and continue to do so. Then they got downright nasty – when they carried their “We didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us” signs during that idiotic national rally they had. That was enough for me to see to understand what would happen if they got any sort of legalization or amnesty.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 11:21 PM
LOL! The perfect response to wise_man’s constant whining about the primaries being over.
FloatingRock on August 22, 2008 at 11:22 PM
No argument here.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:23 PM
And you do understand the rhetorical device of intentional overstatement (although not all that much in the referred to case) when responding to another’s argument that differs a lot from yours, right?
Calm down.
That’s what you resort to when you’re losing the debate — name-calling and ad hominem attacks.
- Michelle Malkin
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:23 PM
I think that “wise_man’s” head would probably explode!
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:26 PM
It’s getting pretty close Bryan. The (agricultural) part of Southern California I lived in celebrated Cinco de Mayo far more energetically than they did the 4th of July. There were stores I went in that English was definitely the second language and not the one of choice. The post office was a real-life version of Disney’s “It’s a Small World” ride where I virtually the only one not shipping stuff out of the country.
What is needed is a realistic guest worker program with no chance of American citizenship but a method of relieving the economic pressures between the US and the poorer nations to the south by permitting an otherwise illegal workforce a method of doing so legally and under control of the government (through tracking of work permits far more closely than has been done in the past).
highhopes on August 22, 2008 at 11:27 PM
We already have eight (8) guest worker programs. We don’t need another one.
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 11:29 PM
I can still remember my mother telling me that when her mother came here from Oslo, Norway at the age of 19 she could not speak a word of English and when she got much older she could not speak a word of Norwegian and she never did celebrate any stinkin’ “Cinco de Norway”.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Even today’s levels are pretty insane and strange.
The problem is that these things are infectious. If the separatist movement made any real major headways in Quebec, that would have an effect on US populations, since it’s so close to home, and vice versa. These are very dangerous waters.
If someone had proposed states voting to secede 20 years ago, he would have been carted off to the loony bin, for the most part. But nowadays there’s an honest debate about the likelihood. Some of this has to do with the creation and destruction of national entities abroad and our support for self-determination for every group larger than 50 people who think they are a “people” who deserve a modern state of their own, but a lot of it has to do with the changing US population and general anti-Americanism.
Our system is extremely stable, but it has its limits. It is clear, given that the argument is over the US doing what it has every right and every responsibility to do, that we are nearing those limits.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 11:34 PM
“Why you leave out the word ILLEGAL? Why you do that?”
“Juan McCain”
Just on this thread. Just calling it like I see it.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:35 PM
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:35 PM
A quick aside..
do you read much? I ask because you seem to be able to pull up quote from Mark Twain and others pretty fast..
You seem fairly well read.. and a good recall as well..
DaveC on August 22, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Seems to me I have heard that somewhere before. You should probably credit the source even though you have used it inappropriately.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 11:38 PM
I think you may be underestimating the capacity of our country to acculturate immigrants. Stop the problem now, and in only one generation the “motherland” culture is mostly gone. We’re one of the few countries in the world with that kind of acculturation rate. There are no second generation hispanic immigrants that do not know English or our culture. The moment that ceases being the case, we have a Quebec problem.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:38 PM
Cinco de Mayo is not celebrated in Mexico, oddly enough.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 11:41 PM
I’m extremely happy to see my Cero Peso’s donations being put to work by the RNC.
I guess it’s time to send some more.
SilverStar830 on August 22, 2008 at 11:41 PM
In case you forget or need more references, you can consult the oracle of google
So to whom do i owe credit?
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:44 PM
link doesn’t seem to work, Bryan..
DaveC on August 22, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Yes, I work very close to Vera Cruz. We just got a Cafe Brazil at Davis and Bishop. Love their coffee.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 11:49 PM
try this one
Darned “convenient” blog link generator. Have to code things by hand I guess.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:49 PM
this one does a search on MB4 and Juan.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:52 PM
I think it’s a double whammy – our country is less able to absorb and acculturate people than it used to be, and larger and more sustained waves of foreigners are coming.
People used to be embarassed that they had accents. People used to Americanize their names. People used to do all sorts of things to try and fit in. Now they do the opposite. I’m very pessimistic about this situation. Every time I talk to Americans who don’t know jack about America – even basic stuff like we used to learn from, what was it, “Capital Rock” or something (‘I’m just a bill … sitting here on Capital Hill …’). No, I find the US’ absorbtion capabilities to be greatly degraded, and worsening.
What you say used to be true, for the most part. The first generation born in the US was as American as anyone else – save a few private cultural oddities, perhaps. But that wasn’t true for all demographics. It was related to population density, to some extent, though there were other factors. I’m not so sure about this today. And we are importing a much different set of people today.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 11:52 PM
Very true. We are importing from a neighboring country and that has practical affects on the impact of that country on the sovereignty of ours. It is different than European or Asian immigration waves in that sense.
While we disagree on the effect of amnesty, I think we do agree we have to stop the process going on now.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 11:59 PM
I have a mind like a steel trap. Shut. :)
MB4 on August 23, 2008 at 12:00 AM
I missed something in school, I guess :)
I only really first learned US history well from an AP US History class in high school. Too bad only about 5% of the grade took that class–the rest took dumbed down general social studies classes.
BryanS on August 23, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Oh yeah. Something is going to be done. McCain is going to try to do exactly what he tried before (just from a different position) and get amnesty and, either we will and the clock will have started (in my mind) or there will be such a large display of opposition (proabably a huge rally will be called for to fight the amnesty – HUGE) that interior enforcement will become a reality. One way or another I believe something will happen in the next few years.
progressoverpeace on August 23, 2008 at 12:03 AM
That’s because immigrants want to assimilate into American culture. Illegals a.k.a. McCain’s “immigrants” don’t want to assimilate here they simply want to make money and then go back home.
highhopes on August 23, 2008 at 12:06 AM
Of course not, all the Mexicans are in America! ;-0
It’s a joke people.
highhopes on August 23, 2008 at 12:08 AM
I lol’d!
carbon_footprint on August 23, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Yep, I called it.
carbon_footprint on August 23, 2008 at 12:11 AM
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