New RNC ad: Being a friend to Hispanics means supporting amnesty
posted at 7:54 pm on August 22, 2008 by Allahpundit
And so, after two years of pounding Geraldo Rivera for reducing a complex issue to its lowest, crudest, most demagogic common denominator, we find that our own party leadership agrees with him. Do you have Hispanic friends? No you don’t, not if you’re one of the 69 percent who prioritizes border enforcement over, ahem, “comprehensive immigration reform.” The boss has an English translation but I’d like confirmation from our Spanish-speaking readers, as I simply can’t believe the RNC would stoop to this. Is this an accurate rendering of the beginning?
How do you know someone is a friend?
You know because they stand up and defend you when it is hard.
When Hispanics needed a friend in Congress during the immigration debate… Who stood up? Who spoke out?
John McCain.
Note: This isn’t Michelle’s translation, it’s the version that the RNC’s sending around, so it expresses their intent even if the Spanish version doesn’t precisely match. Exit question: What’s the difference between the insinuation here and the insinuation … here?
Blowback
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How am I being “killed?” Are you “killing” me?
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 9:39 PM
Immoral, no. Impractical near impossible, yes.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 9:40 PM
tarpon on August 22, 2008 at 9:39 PM
You got it! That’s why old-school Organized Labor Democrats are OPPOSED to this!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Immoral, no. Impractical near impossible, yes.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 9:40 PM
Well then, what would be an acceptible number of compulsory deportations, in your opinion? Ten a week? Twenty…?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:42 PM
So you’d argue that if a family of illegals who is working hard and making a living here in this country without government aid needs to be deported? Yes or no? I’d say no, personally. Give them a path to citizenship.
I have no problem with deporting illegals who are taking up jail space, committing crimes in this country (above and beyond illegal status) or living off the government dole. Find em, get rid of them. But if they are not and are upstanding, let them stay.
I don’t think that’s so irrational. Do you?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Probably more than that. Perhaps the same rate that they come in.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 9:44 PM
You must’ve missed this one…they ARE criminals…
Illegal Immigration is a Crime
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, “Improper Entry by Alien,” any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
• Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
• Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
• Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
BTW – we do have a pathway to citizenship, and there it is!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:45 PM
But see, it gets complicated; what about the anchor babies, the frail, the elderly who can not travel? It is near impossible to send over twenty million people back to Mexico.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 9:45 PM
You are deflecting. I recognize that illegality is a crime. It’s a civil crime, not a criminal one, though. So let’s start over.
If a family of illegals is working hard, making a living, not living off the government dole; should that family be deported?
It’s not a tough question. Really.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:46 PM
So, are they admitting that a very large majority wants enforcement over comprehensive immigration reform, aka amnesty? Maybe, a politician should represent American voters instead of foreign interests? What a concept!
Blake on August 22, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Thank God that McCain and the RNC are at least thinking a few steps ahead of you folks, some of you, who seem happy to wander blindly into a electoral buzz saw. You’d rather get zero of what you want with Obama, than get half of what you want with McCain. You may still get that. I don’t wish you luck.
RBMN on August 22, 2008 at 9:47 PM
Children are under the custody of their parents until they’re 18. It’s that simple…We’ve been over all this before, nice try.
BUILD THE WALL…..DEPORT THEM ALL!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Mainly, you are doing that yourself. You never have gotten any McCain points now have you? I am still a bit suspicious that you really are working for the DNC.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 9:48 PM
Thank God that McCain and the RNC are at least thinking a few steps ahead of you folks, some of you, who seem happy to wander blindly into a electoral buzz saw. You’d rather get zero of what you want with Obama, than get half of what you want with McCain. You may still get that. I don’t wish you luck.
RBMN on August 22, 2008 at 9:47 PM
That’s like saying I only want half the cancer cells to kill me…
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:49 PM
You didn’t ask me, But I would like to reply.
No. It’s not immoral to remove people who broke the laws of our nation by coming here illegally.
What I would like to see is a federal action against all sanctuary cities. Mayors and city government would have 30 days to comply. After that, they would be tried and if found guilty of violating federal law, be sent to prison for an appropriate time.
The southern border should be secured in a manner that plugs as many vulnerable areas of the border that is porous first, and then as construction and manpower allows, continue to expand the border until the entire line is secure.
Businesses who knowingly violate our laws by employing illegals shall fact severe penalties. Financial institutions should be required to verify their customers’ identity and report any discrepancy so that their status can be verified.
Any illegal immigrant convicted of a violent crime should be deported immediately. Following them, other illegals who have been previously identified should be deported as conditions and availability of transportation allow that they can be processed for deportation. This entire operations would take many weeks and months.
When these first steps have been sufficiently meet, then the additional illegal aliens who have not committed additional violations beyond the firs offense of violating our border and customs should be later identified and deported.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 9:49 PM
How are illegals; who are working, living their life, not criminals and not living off of the government dole do anything to you? Why do they bother you?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:50 PM
McCain need to stop this “friend” business. Getting a bit sick about that but certainly would be sicker if Obama gets the prez vote.
Kokonut on August 22, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Oh come on. I am not going to get into some long winded and useless debate on all this, but what I am reading here says nothing about amnesty. It makes some vague reference to being a friend or something. I mean come on. It just does not seem that sinister to me. Unless I am missing something, I just don’t see anything awful here.
For the record, I think border security is a priority too. But I think that mass deportation makes no more sense than mass amnesty. A guest worker program and some normalization for some people who are not violent offenders or druggies or whatever and have been here for years and stayed out of trouble might work…I don’t think that citizenship should just be given to anyone..but sometimes I think that people have become so sensitized in this debate that even bland statements are taken to mean more than they do.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 9:52 PM
You are deflecting. I recognize that illegality is a crime. It’s a civil crime, not a criminal one, though. So let’s start over.
If a family of illegals is working hard, making a living, not living off the government dole; should that family be deported?
It’s not a tough question. Really.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:46 PM
We’re not wasting our time on this nonsense any more…sorry.
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Allahpundit,
It doesn’t surprise me a bit that the RNC does such a thing. The RNC is a tool and its mail surveys insult the intelligence of potential donors.
Earlier this year, Bush gave a short speech about the Bear Stearns meltdown. The speech was disjointed and disturbing in its own right, but he managed to get a dig in against so-called nativists. It seemed out of place, but you could tell that it sticks in his craw that American citizens defeated Amnesty last year.
Calling citizens who want the rule of law nativists is as good as calling them racists. Talk about insinuations. That we question the right of an insular elite to dissolve our borders and reshape our society really bugs them.
Systemic lawlessness is something that should concern and frighten every citizen. We’ve seen the results and felt the consequences on the streets of America.
Feedie on August 22, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Maybe because he is an AMERICAN patriot!
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 9:52 PM
Kokonut:
Not every hispanic is illegal. There is nothing wrong with being friends with people who are not breaking the law.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Why would I get ‘points’ on something that does not apply to me?
And If I am working for the DNC, as you suggest, then how could pointing out when people lie about McCain help elect Obama? THere are people here who seem to want republicans to sit out the election and ‘try again’ in four years. I vehemently disagree with that tactic. I would be happy of republicans and conservatives would support the republican nominated candidate, and use their only vote to keep Obama out of office. How, in your mind, exactly, is this supposed to benefit the democrats?
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 9:53 PM
How are illegals; who are working, living their life, not criminals and not living off of the government dole do anything to you? Why do they bother you?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:50 PM
You must not live in SOCAL or Phoenix. Let’s have them all move to your town, and don’t ask for any government assistance. Fair enough?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:54 PM
more of your idiocy that you think is thoughtful and intelligent. i never said fraud, open primaries means no fraud. but you know mccain won a process that is flawed and has delivered us a TERRIBLE candidate. how can he lead the party when he hates the platforms?
but i’m sure you’ll change mccain w/ the super-dooper psy-ops campaign you were talking about the other nite when you kept spinning and refusing to address any issues. lets see, what is it you do again? oh yeah, write “no immigration reform” on donation requests and mail them back?? yeah, thats so effective.
chasdal on August 22, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Not every hispanic is illegal. There is nothing wrong with being friends with people who are not breaking the law.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Over half of my pocho friends don’t want them hear either. So what’s your point?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:55 PM
And they don’t want to hear Spanish either!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 9:56 PM
I can’t answer for DfD, but I can say that it’s probably very hard to find illegal immigrants that aren’t benefiting from American tax dollars. Just step out into the street and you’re using our services. People try to make it sound like conservatives want to pack up illegal immigrants and send them home because we’re racist against Hispanics or just like breaking up families. That’s not it at all. It has to do with the fact that they broke our laws, don’t pay taxes, and use the services of the American tax payer. We should encourage immigration and raise our quotas to allow more law abiding people into this country. But we have to secure our border first. And get the illegals back to their fair spot in the line.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 9:56 PM
I’m in Florida. You don’t need to talk to me about illegal issues.
If the illegals are working, not committing crimes, not taking any money from the state or washington dc; etc. Why does their presence here bother you?
I’m already agreeing that criminals and those living off the dole should be deported.
Why should the other honest, hardworking people be forced to leave?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Their lack of paying taxes (payroll taxes primarily) is their employers fault. Punish those employers. Fine. I agree.
But if they are working, not committing crimes and not living off the dole. Why must they leave? Give them a path – quick and easy – to legalization. Aren’t these the immigrants we want here?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:58 PM
Because you mainly call names like a kos’er and it is difficult to see how anyone could make such a poor case for someone, unless they were doing it on purpose. You just push people even further from McCain. It’s like a boxer throwing a match or a lawyer throwing a case. Of course there is another explanation, but you would like it even less.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 9:59 PM
I’m starting to get just as tired of continually having to say
as the McCainiacs are getting tired of hearing it.
LegendHasIt on August 22, 2008 at 10:00 PM
I’m in Florida. You don’t need to talk to me about illegal issues.
If the illegals are working, not committing crimes, not taking any money from the state or washington dc; etc. Why does their presence here bother you?
I’m already agreeing that criminals and those living off the dole should be deported.
Why should the other honest, hardworking people be forced to leave?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Let’s send all of the Illegal Aliens to your state. Everyone will be happy. We’ll still take in at least 800,000 LEGAL immigrants every year, but NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT for those from just one specific country, okay?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:00 PM
MB4:
I know plenty of American patriots who share lorien’s feelings. It is not really up to you to decide who is and is not a patriot. I mean, where were all these patriots a decade ago? Two decades ago?
Deportation is a civil process, not criminal. Illegal entry is not considered a felony, it never has been. So it is not really a matter of patriotism {for instance} to consider the possibility of letting some people stay here under some circumstances.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 10:01 PM
So McCain won. So there’s nothing to discuss in regarding the republican primary, I see. Good.
What platforms in the republican party does McCain hate?
If you disagree with one of the things I do to make my voice heard to McCain than I am disappointed. Perhaps you can tell me of a more effective way to get McCAin to understand how important this is to so many of the conservatives in America. As far as I know, the only thing you do is bad mouth him on an internet page he doesnt read. As I said, one of my options is to return ever request for money with an empty envelop with a note that explains why. I would like to hear your better suggestion.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:01 PM
When Did I do this? Today? Yesterday? This week?
Please, tell me who I did this to here today.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM
But if they are working, not committing crimes and not living off the dole. Why must they leave? Give them a path – quick and easy – to legalization. Aren’t these the immigrants we want here?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 9:58 PM
No. We have a path already. They’ve refused to observe it….too bad.
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM
Yeah I keep hearing that too, but I’m also hearing much more Spanish spoken in the stores in my neighborhood than I did even a year ago.
Shay on August 22, 2008 at 10:03 PM
And what you are doing is drawing people toward McCain? Right?
No, seriously, what are you doing?
Because I though it was ‘driving people away from McCain.’
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:04 PM
I call them like I see them. Call it straight talk.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Deportation is a civil process, not criminal. Illegal entry is not considered a felony, it never has been. So it is not really a matter of patriotism {for instance} to consider the possibility of letting some people stay here under some circumstances.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 10:01 PM
Handling this as a “civil” crime is a recent phenomena. Are you telling me we can deport someone if they’ve only been dicovered to be here their first time? We know where you stand. How about if I use your SS#? I’ve never used any body else’s before. That shouldn’t be a problem, should it?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:06 PM
AP,
I think you are confusing necessary and sufficient criteria. John McCain’s stand on immigration, the logic goes, proves he is a friend of Hispanics. That does not imply that the inverse is true.
I know you’re my friend because you took a bullet for me. That doesn’t mean I don’t have friends who haven’t taken a bullet for me.
mikeyboss on August 22, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Are you drawing people toward McCain, MB4?
Or away.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:06 PM
Because the fact they are here illegally makes them criminals……..
Because their children attend our schools and groups like La Raza and Mecha demand bilingual education and teach them that the United States “stole” their land………
Because the majority of them work under the table and their health care is going to the Emergency Rooms which unpaid costs over the last decade has closed numerous hospitals in Southern California……….
Because even the Mexican Government teaches them how to work our Welfare and Social Services to the point of bankruptcy and we wonder why or state and local budgets always need more and more of our tax money…….
Finally, because the majority of them vote, yes voter fraud on a scale that equals the invasion of this country by a hostile foreign army, non-citizens told by La Raza and the Democratic Party who to vote for, changing the Demographics and Laws of this country to the detriment of legal citizens of this country………….
I live in Southern California, and have seen every example listed here come to life by the power of 10……..
Not to be rude, but if you don’t know the true answer to your own question, then you truly have some issues to be resolved……….
Seven Percent Solution on August 22, 2008 at 10:07 PM
How is this family making a living?
1. Working for cash? – IRS frowns on this.
2. Using a stolen Social security number? ID theft.
3. Using a made-up, previously unused social security number? A $250,000 fine.
If this family is awarded citizenship, does this
a) discourage, or b) discourage, future illegal border crossings? If it encourages more illegal entries, your policy is “irrational”, IF you want to end illegal entries.
EVERY PART of a national policy should discourage future law-breaking. Therefore, your example family members who are illegal aliens should be subject to deportation, and meanwhile, denied all benefits funded by taxpayers, except emergency medical treatment on their way back to their home country.
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:07 PM
I don’t really need to do anything, except maybe a little “reinforcement” for a bit of “icing on the cake”, as most folks on this web site have a brain and a clue and can, and are, seeing McVain with clarity.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:07 PM
This is not about McCain MB4, he is not the issue. The problem we have with illegal immigration is not his fault, or Bush’s. This is a very old problem that has been ignored by a lot of people for many years. The state of California is home to almost half the illegals in the country and while they are supposed to build a fence at San Diego, the state has shown no real inclination toward more stringent laws or policy.
The GOP argued about this before the midterms, I think it helped them lose the midterms. And after that hardliners could not manage to come up with one national leader on this issue that could win the nomination. McCain was not forced on anyone, he won fair and square. Now if you don’t agree with him fine, but the alternative is not any better..in fact Obama would be worse. Far worse.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 10:08 PM
No, no, no, please. I’m in Florida, too–a 5th generation.
I’d like to send all the Yankees home as well. :)
INC on August 22, 2008 at 10:08 PM
It could be that if McCain sees a backlash hurt his poll numbers due to his amnesty position, he’ll moderate his tone.
Ramp it up!
fossten on August 22, 2008 at 10:08 PM
I see one thing with clarity: McCain vs Obama. That is clear enough.
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 10:10 PM
You are here a lot. You speak against McCain, a lot. You cite many things that conservatives dislike about McCain, a lot.
So much ‘a lot’, in fact, that it’s ‘repeatedly.’ Bringing up details and facts not relevant to that page. And long quotes where you take something McCain said to someone else, and then applied them to another person. Along with many other ways of doing pretty much the same thing. Day in and day out.
So you are participating in driving away people from McCain. And you think I am a democrat because, in your words, I drive people away from McCain.
Does anyone else here see this as just the least be ironic?
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:11 PM
fossten:
If that was going to happen Obama and McCain would not be the nominees today. the only thing a backlash against McCain would accomplish is a win for Obama. Remember Ross Perot? We don’t hear much from him since he helped elect Clinton do we?
Terrye on August 22, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Terrye,
It wasn’t just the “hardliners.” Here’s Rasmussen from June of last year.
Why the Senate Immigration Bill Failed
INC on August 22, 2008 at 10:12 PM
Sorry I do not sell out my values.
F15Mech on August 22, 2008 at 10:12 PM
From what I can see, in this thread, is that the hardliners on immigration believe something but cannot rationally defend it. When a rational defense is not easily forthcoming; I have an immediate problem with it.
I’ve been asking a simple question over and over again; and have yet to see a thought out response as to why a hardworking illegal who is trying to make a living for themselves and not living off the government dole needs to be deported – or cleansed as someone put it earlier. You’d think a good reason would be easy to come up with if there was a rational thought behind it.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM
I don’t know if this is in the Republican platform, but McCain is a strong opponent of the First Amendment. He’s come out publicly against the Bush Tax Cuts in the past. This is just a start. I’m voting for him, but don’t say he’s a perfect candidate or perfect Republican, which is what you’re getting at. Where is the middle ground between the nut job “I’m staying home” morons and the lackeys that defend everything McCain says and does? Surely I’m not the only one.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM
So you are participating in driving away people from McCain. And you think I am a democrat because, in your words, I drive people away from McCain.
Does anyone else here see this as just the least be ironic?
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Until ol’ “Z-Visa” and The Dali Bama get right on this issue, they can expect nothing short of a good ol’ fashioned ass-whooopin’!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:14 PM
And how is standing by and doing nothing while Obama wishes for and gets the presidency … helping your values. (assuming that you will vote your values, which I have not seen you say one way or the other)
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Gotta run. The Dali Bama is pickin’……..
Antonio Villaraigosa.
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Terrye,
Sorry, this part of my comment It wasn’t just the “hardliners.” when I quote you doesn’t make sense with the rest, although the Rasmussen polls indicate that this issue resonates across the board.
Back to the primaries, one thing that happened is that here in Florida McCain downplayed immigration and played his vet status to the military.
INC on August 22, 2008 at 10:15 PM
May I refer you to:
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:07 PM
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:16 PM
My question for all candidates:
For what crime(s), other than illegal entry to our country, do you propose that we award the ill-gotten goods to the criminal?
If a burglar is caught stealing your power tools and your wife’s jewels, would you want the judge to award the ill-gotten goods (the stolen tools and jewels) to the burglar, even if a fine were imposed? Would you be pleased? Do you think burglaries would 1) decrease 2) increase, in your neighborhood?
If someone is caught sneaking into our country, in order to “steal” residency, do you want Congress to award the illegal alien with the ill-gotten goods (residency), even if a fine were imposed? Would you be pleased? Do you think illegal entries would 1) increase 2) decrease, on the borders?
McCain-Kennedy, defeated once in 2006 and twice in 2007, would have awarded the ill-gotten goods to the criminals who stole them.
- fred5678 on April 1, 2008 at 5:29 PM
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:17 PM
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM
I don’t think we’re hardliners on illegal immigration. Once the word was out, this issue resonated with US citizens across the country.
INC on August 22, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Who here defends McCain on everything he says and does. Just out of curiosity.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:17 PM
McCain was right on immigration. Both enforcement and amnesty have to be part of the complete solution. Without strict enforcement, a one time amnesty is no longer one-time. Reagan proved that.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 10:17 PM
My what a memory! (And/or fluent database search technique).
Thanks for saving my typing time.
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM
I’ve been asking a simple question over and over again; and have yet to see a thought out response as to why a hardworking illegal who is trying to make a living for themselves and not living off the government dole needs to be deported – or cleansed as someone put it earlier. You’d think a good reason would be easy to come up with if there was a rational thought behind it.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM
You’ve seen the argument to justify deportation. YOU don’t want to deport anybody…period. We know the drivel. What we don’t get is the “compelling argument that I should support Illegal Aliens and their Anchor Babies with our tax dollars after they have failed to follow our reasonable, compassionate, just, fair, and humane immigration laws”. Ship them to Florida!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Except that during the primaries McCain toed the “secure the borders first, we got the message” line. Now that he’s drifting from it, a sharp correction in his poll numbers may snap him back.
That’s all I’m saying.
Look, even if we elect him Prez, we’re gonna have to stamp our collective feet at some point to stop the McShamnesty legislation. We’ll have to send this message probably more than once.
fossten on August 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM
McCain is a veteran? Wow! Are you sure? Next thing we will be hearing is that Kerry was in Vietnam.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Missed that!
1-This is the employer’s fault. I agree. Punish the employer. I know a lot of legal businesses that work for cash – lawn services and handymen. So while the IRS frowns upon it, there is an underground, cash based economy that it will never be able to control.
2-3 I’ve covered under the not breaking any laws. Deport the criminals. I agree.
Rewarding people who work hard with staying and deporting people who are criminals would create incentives itself. People are coming over right now. Get rid of the slackers and keep the workers.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM
I think that its a better idea to have enforcement first and foremost. If people want to enter the US, there is a form to fill out and a processing fee to pay. Then they have to wait their turn. Amnesty, even with the strongest enforcement that we have ever had so far, is a joke. Sanctuary cities can and do draw an incredible amount of illegal immigrants, and this needs to stop, to stop the bleeding before any bandages can do any good.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:21 PM
Por mi parte, doy la bienvenida a nuestros nuevos amos de Mexico.
sulla on August 22, 2008 at 10:21 PM
I’ve said. Deport the criminals. Deport the ones living off the dole. Both are easy to deport. They come to your jails and your government offices for checks. Catapult them over the border. Done. Hunting down 12 million people won’t be happening, face it. Compromise and a middle of the road solution is the best answer.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Jet does, but I like him anyway because he is so civil about it. I don’t understand some of his positions (like on ii) but still.
And he is a Fred convert, so we know where he is/was coming from.
Spirit of 1776 on August 22, 2008 at 10:22 PM
Nothing ever really disappears on the internet and I have a good memory for keywords.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Please explain to me why McCain changed his 2006 Z visa waiting period of 90 days to a single business day in 2007.
Did he add 12 million FBI agents to do the 12 million background checks in that single day, and I didn’t notice?
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Hey CF, I spent 8 long, miserable, noisy, dirty years in North Oak Cliff (not the nice part, the part near Fiesta on Jefferson). Anyone who wonders why I have such a strong opinion on this issue (Terrye and some others) needs to go spend a month or two in my old hood (well, actually, barrio) and you will become a believer! Great little house, cheap rent but pretty much a constant assault on all of your senses 24/7. I am soooooooo thankful to have gotten out. Of course, being in the Dallas area, it is still an illegal Mexican haven but at least where I am now is cleaner and quieter. But unlike the people that have moved up and forgot those Americans left suffering, I will never stop fighting this illegal invasion!
mrsmwp on August 22, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Thanks. I would like to ask jetboy(right? No other ‘jets’ that I have ever seen here) later if there is any position that McCain has advocated that he disagrees with.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Rewarding people who work hard with staying and deporting people who are criminals would create incentives itself. People are coming over right now. Get rid of the slackers and keep the workers.
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Every time we have workplace enforcement, it’s folks like you who complain. And if you had your way, there would be NO SLACKERS as far as your concerned. We know the game. How many Illegals do you employ?
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:24 PM
I think you’re very confused about the amount of illegals paying taxes. Most of these guys work under the table. You say you live in Florida. Go to the 7-11, Home Depot, or Lowe’s tomorrow morning at, say, 6 AM. See how many people are out there looking for a job for the day. A job that will surely be under the table. I also don’t understand your “living off the dole” mantra. If you’re living in the US, you’re using the services of the American taxpayer no matter what. You drive on our roads, you use our libraries, you use our emergency services, you are defended by our military, etc. Just because you don’t collect welfare, doesn’t mean you aren’t taking advantage of the services of tax payers. But I’ll concede this point to you. You find me an illegal immigrant with no children in public schools that pays income taxes (you mentioned by the employer deducting taxes, but like I said, most of these guys work under the table), hasn’t committed a crime, and isn’t collecting ANY government assistance. He can stay. If you can find him. Good luck with that.
Shouldn’t the fact their very first act in this country was to break the law be reason enough?
————————-
We’re forgetting the real victim of illegal immigration. The hardworking man or woman waiting in line to come in legally and make a living for themselves. They are suffering the most. But, hey, lorien thinks some people are entitled to just skip the line. They must be better than the other people.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:26 PM
And you claimed that I tell people to shut up or whatever- all the time, and I asked you to show me where I said that today, or yesterday or this week. Yet no link from you.
That’s too bad. ANd here I thought you had a outstanding ability to search the internet with key words …. such as any time I told someone to shut up because they said something bad about McCain.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:26 PM
I’ve been defining slacker: those who are criminals and those that live off the dole. I’ve said it a hundred times.
I’ve complained about it? When?
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:26 PM
No one needs to “hunt down” anyone. As they come into contact with government services (hospitals, police, schools, traffic tickets, …) toss them out.
I don’t understand what is the compromise in acquiescing to the demands of non-citizens. It’s not as if these are “people without a country”. They all have countries, just not the US.
Allowing people to make a joke of US sovereignty and our rights to our own country is not what I would call a compromise. To me, that is a total capitulation, and would lead to dissolution of the US, after not too long.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:27 PM
“Hasn’t committed a crime outside of the initial breaking of American law to come here” is how that should read.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:27 PM
Please explain to me why McCain changed his 2006 Z visa waiting period of 90 days to a single business day in 2007.
Did he add 12 million FBI agents to do the 12 million background checks in that single day, and I didn’t notice?
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM
Because they have NO INTENTION on doing any background checks! And the Illegal Alien Gangbangers would have to sign a disclaimer that they’d no longer live the gangbangin’ life. ha ha ha ha That was a good one too!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Rewarding people who intentionally break our laws is a good thing? How about rewarding those who wait in line and obey our laws, and not rewarding those who intentionally break our laws (including those 1) employees who don’t report cash income – a crime according to the IRS. Deport them too.
BTW, how’s the burglary rate in your neighborhood?
fred5678 on August 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Why you leave out the word ILLEGAL? Why you do that?
Juan McVain has got nothing right on illegal “immigration” yet and in all likelihood never will, not what is right for Americans, as opposed to what is “right” for anti-American plantation scaffold employers anyway.
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Here’s an article at NRO from last year by Mark Krikorian:
INC on August 22, 2008 at 10:28 PM
Bingo. It’s not gonna cost anything to do it if that’s what he’s getting at.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:29 PM
We here in the L.A. area know how that one goes…
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Now you’ve done it. You asked them to back up their claim. Good luck for any kind of truthful response from them.
wise_man on August 22, 2008 at 10:29 PM
scaffoldscofflawMB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:29 PM
.. and the conscious decision, every single day, to stay here, illegally, even though they know that their presence is tearing this country apart. … But they don’t care.
progressoverpeace on August 22, 2008 at 10:30 PM
There you go again.
- Ronald Reagan
MB4 on August 22, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Show me where I stood by and did nothing first of all.
If you want to accuse me of that then lets get it on.
2nd neither Obama or McCain meet my values something about killing babies and rewarding
F15Mech on August 22, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Bingo. It’s not gonna cost anything to do it if that’s what he’s getting at.
malan89 on August 22, 2008 at 10:29 PM
Bingo! Just prove your citizenship right now! As soon as you walk in the door! ha ha ha
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:31 PM
I understand the sentiment you express, however a law that has been broken and remained unenforced for so long is difficult to change without a lot of side effects–many not good. I normally agree that rewarding illegal behavior is only going to generate more of it.
This is especially true when breaking the law involves bringing minors to live in this country illegally through no fault or even knowledge of their own. It’s been a generation since the last amnesty-only legislation passed. Many illegals grew up their entire lives not knowing they are illegal.
Hefty fines for businesses that hire illegals, no bank accounts or loans for illegals, no states being permitted to issue licenses to illegals, a great big fence, jail time for first time offenders–all these are just fine by me if we say from here on out, this is the case. I think that cities and states that set themselves up as sanctuaries flout the authority of the federal government to determine citizenship and manage foreign affairs. All that behavior has to stop as part of a compromise on amnesty.
BryanS on August 22, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Hey! I work near there; on Davis in the Bishop Arts District.
Small world, yes a trip to Fiesta on Jefferson is like being in the middle of Matamoros. One thing for sure; there are some pretty good places to eat in that part of Dallas.
carbon_footprint on August 22, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Almost all these things are funded through a sales tax (that illegals would pay if they buy stuff), a property tax (well, only homeowners pay these so I’d argue that apartment dwellers suck), emergency services are on county budgets so generally fall under sales tax and property tax as well.
Given the income level of illegals, they would not pay income taxes anyways or get a refund. So there is no loss of revenue there. So the rest of your complaints are not in play here.
Employment taxes on the employers part are a problem – even though I am philosophically opposed to employment taxes – and hitting up the employers with fines. I’m cool with that.
Cash economies exist for a wide variety of trades. Lawn servies, tree cutters, handymen, etc. IRS can’t keep track of it all. What’s the difference? Supply/demand. I’m all for it.
Initially yes. But if the illegal is here, making a living, breaking no (other) laws, etc; then why force them to leave? Clearly there is a demand for their services.
None. All of my employees are legal. Or at least, that’s what they want me to think!
lorien1973 on August 22, 2008 at 10:32 PM
No crowded schools or highways. No hit and run killings of Americans and ripping American families apart!!
DfDeportation on August 22, 2008 at 10:32 PM
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