Russian forces retreating?

posted at 11:20 am on August 21, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

Reuters reports that Russian armored units have begun pulling back into South Ossetia, indicating a general withdrawal from Georgia.  Moscow pledged that it would return to the lines status quo ante by Friday night, roughly 24 hours from now.  Georgian officials remain skeptical:

Russia began pulling tanks and armor back over its frontier, pledging all forces would quit Georgia’s heartland by Friday night, but Tbilisi said Moscow was determined to keep a grip on the country.

The West has been waiting with increasing impatience for signs of a full-scale pullout of troops and armor that Russia sent into its small Caucasus neighbor two weeks ago. Continued delays have raised fears of a drift back into conflict.

“I can see 21 T-72 tanks moving towards the Roki tunnel in the direction of Russia,” said a Reuters reporter at the tunnel, which is a few km (miles) from the Georgian-Russian border and is the main access route for Russian forces.

“I can also see four Grad artillery launchers, several armored personnel carriers, and heavy trucks ready to move into the tunnel,” the reporter said. Outside the Russian city of Vladikavkaz, near the border, engineers were building tent camps, possibly to accommodate withdrawing troops.

Meanwhile in Gori, nothing much has changed, according to eyewitnesses.  The Finnish Foreign Minister, Alexander Stubb, reported that the Russians haven’t budged in the key strategic city.  He also reports that Russia has conducted an ethnic cleansing of South Ossetia, forcing ethnic Georgians out of their homes and into Gori, where Russian special forces have dumped them.

Russia has also demarcated a “buffer zone” in which they will control traffic along a key highway vital to Georgia’s economy, fully within Georgian territory.  They have begun building checkpoints, which will interfere with movement of goods within Georgia and weaken the nation.  Russia admits this and says the cease-fire allows it, which Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili strongly rejects.

The US will involve itself heavily in rebuilding Georgia’s military, according to the American commander of operations for NATO in Europe.  General John Craddock expects the Pentago to start that process soon, although he remained vague on the speed and amount of support Tbilisi could expect.  That sends a strong signal that the US and the West have not ceded hegemony to Russia in Georgia or other areas of the Caucasus outside of Russia’s own territory.  It keeps open the option to offer NATO membership to Georgia and defy Vladimir Putin’s new imperialism in Asia.

By tomorrow, we should see whether the Russians pull back from Tbilisi and honor the cease-fire agreement.  Based on their actions thus far, I’d remain skeptical of their intentions in even this modest measure.

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I’d remain skeptical of their intentions in even this modest measure.

Yeah you and everyone else Ed.

I don’t think they are going anywhere.

upinak on August 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM

This at the same time that reports say that South Ossetia troops are moving into Georgia?

TooTall on August 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM

Speaking of Russia’s invasion, I didn’t see this linked here yet, but it is a pretty brazen bit of moral equivalence even for a “citizen of the world.”

phronesis on August 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM

This at the same time that reports say that South Ossetia troops are moving into Georgia?

TooTall on August 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM

Exactly Too. And talking how Georgia is trying to take over the “Motherland”.

upinak on August 21, 2008 at 11:28 AM

Would that be South Ossetian troops who happen to speak perfect Russian?

MarkTheGreat on August 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Russia has also demarcated a “buffer zone” in which they will control traffic along a key highway vital to Georgia’s economy, fully within Georgian territory. They have begun building checkpoints, which will interfere with movement of goods within Georgia and weaken the nation. Russia admits this and says the cease-fire allows it, which Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili strongly rejects.

I see. Russia plans on “starving” Georgia economically to get them to bend to their will.

By tomorrow, we should see whether the Russians pull back from Tbilisi and honor the cease-fire agreement. Based on their actions thus far, I’d remain skeptical of their intentions in even this modest measure.

Me, too.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Russia blows. They shouldn’t get to keep the 2014 olympics. On a side note, the IOC, which said not a peep about China’s last of respect for basic human rights, is not happy with Bolt’s lack of respect in his 2 world record breaking races.

BadgerHawk on August 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Surely the UN will reward Russia with all types of economic aid for pulling back from their unprovoked invasion position.

trs on August 21, 2008 at 11:30 AM

BadgerHawk on August 21, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Only hope that if it is still going, out Olympians will actually protest and not go.

upinak on August 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Blindfolded, bound and gagged Georgian officials remain skeptical…….

………….. fixed it for ya.

Seven Percent Solution on August 21, 2008 at 11:32 AM

If they want to cripple Georgia’s economy, I say fair play we do the same to them.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2008 at 11:37 AM

Why do so many world leaders act like 5-year olds? Seriously, just listen to the comments of Chavez or Ahmadinejad sometime. Children!

davenp35 on August 21, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Only hope that if it is still going, out Olympians will actually protest and not go.

upinak on August 21, 2008 at 11:31 AM

That doesn’t really do any good. It’d be better to there and kick their ass. It’s great how well we do at the olympics, given that we’re only of the only countries that doesn’t have federal funding for our athletes. We’re kind of sucking this year, though.

BadgerHawk on August 21, 2008 at 11:41 AM

I see. Russia plans on “starving” Georgia economically to get them to bend to their will.

If it becomes necessary, how about a replay of the Berlin Airlift in Georgia?

Full disclosure: My father, as an Army Air Corps teletypist, was involved in the original one.

Bigfoot on August 21, 2008 at 11:43 AM

BadgerHawk on August 21, 2008 at 11:41 AM

Ahhh true. Not for the sucking part. But for the non-governmental issues with children being taken from parents and trained at the age of 3.

upinak on August 21, 2008 at 11:43 AM

The US will involve itself heavily in rebuilding Georgia’s military, according to the American commander of operations for NATO in Europe. General John Craddock expects the Pentago to start that process soon, although he remained vague on the speed and amount of support Tbilisi could expect.

You’d think we’d have a good bit of surplus or recently retired equipment that could be mobilized. Though, getting it there might be an issue. Lavrov’s WSJ piece indicated they want to impose an arms embargo against Georgia.

CP on August 21, 2008 at 11:45 AM

According to this article, shipment of all Azeri oil still stopped, although the pipeline ending in Turkey is scheduled to reopen soon, following a “suspicious” pipeline fire in Turkey a few weeks ago. (I suspect Russia knows something about the disruption in Turkey). But oil prices are up $6/barrel today reportedly due to Russia’s actions in Georgia.

JiangxiDad on August 21, 2008 at 11:50 AM

I think what we are seeing is the new pardigm in diplospeak.

Face it folks, our diplos will believe what you tell them, and it takes months or years for us to get off our collective rear ends and do anything further about it…

Take Iran and nukes… they continue to talk, and we continue to do nothing.

Syria? Hezbollah? Say the right things, then put troops in where ya want anyway.

The international community no longer holds countries responsible for their word… there is no consequencs for lieing…

Romeo13 on August 21, 2008 at 11:56 AM

Let’s review the situation after all Russian tanks and forces are on the north side of the Roki Tunnel. Then we can see if the Russians are being truthfull this time…

Think_b4_speaking on August 21, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Russians have nothing better to do than play cat and mouse.

If they run out of vodka, they will head home. This is the only modern army I have ever heard of that is doing door-to-door liqueur searches.

Losers.

Hening on August 21, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Russian forces retreating?

Retreating?

Why wasn’t I told?

Retreating because they are taking massive loses to Georgians using American supplied anti-tank weapons against them or retreating under the massive assault of American air power?

MB4 on August 21, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Retreating?

Why wasn’t I told?

Retreating because they are taking massive loses to Georgians using American supplied anti-tank weapons against them or retreating under the massive assault of American air power?

MB4 on August 21, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Nah, they’re retreating becuase OBI-Condi used her Farce Powers… “this is not the invasion you were looking for… move along…”

Romeo13 on August 21, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Bigfoot on August 21, 2008 at 11:43 AM

I think we should get on it. The Russians are blocking their port.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 21, 2008 at 12:44 PM

POTI, Georgia (AP) – Russian forces blocked the only land entrance to Georgia’s main port city on Thursday, a day before Russia promised to complete a troop pullout from its ex-Soviet neighbor.

Armored personnel carriers and troop trucks blocked the bridge to the Black Sea port city of Poti, and Russian forces excavated trenches and set up mortars facing the city. Another group of APCs and trucks were positioned in a nearby wooded area.

Although Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has promised that his forces would pull back by Friday, Russian troops appear to be digging in, raising concern about whether Moscow is aiming for a lengthy occupation of its small, pro-Western neighbor.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told The Associated Press that Russia was thinning out its presence in some occupied towns but was seizing other strategic spots. He called the Russian moves “some kind of deception game.”

“(The Russians) are making fun of the world,” he declared.

pseudonominus on August 21, 2008 at 1:07 PM

I’d worry they are pulling back just to make sure none of the missles they launch land on their own equipment.

Rbastid on August 21, 2008 at 1:26 PM

What Allah and Ed both have accidentally (no doubt) missed. U.S. Ambassador Kurt Volke hates freedom.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LL89172.htm

freevillage on August 21, 2008 at 1:47 PM

Moscow plans 18 long-term checkpoints inside Georgia

DEBKA – August 20, 2008, 11:24 PM (GMT+02:00)

Deputy chief of the Russian army general staff Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn told reporters Aug. 20: “The president ordered us to stop where we were. We are not pulling out or pulling back troops behind this administrative border into South Ossetia,” he said.

He pointed out the proposed Russian positions on a map, one just outside the Georgian city of Gori. Moscow planned to establish 18 long-term checkpoints including at least eight in undisputed Georgian territory outside the pro-Russian enclave of South Ossetia, said the general. They will be staffed by hundreds of Russian troops.

The plan appears to flout the terms of the French-brokered ceasefire deal signed last week by the presidents of Russia and Georgia. Moscow says its peacekeeping mandate and the ceasefire terms give it access to a “security zone” along the Georgian-South Ossetian border.

Nogovitsyn said at least 64 Russian soldiers were killed and 323 injured in the fighting sparked by an “unprovoked surprise attack” by Georgia on the South Ossetian capital.

MB4 on August 21, 2008 at 1:54 PM

freevillage, that sounds entirely plausible to me (and great advice at that) but still looks like an attempt at deflection on your part. Don’t jack the thread, please. Allah and Ed are both available by e-mail if you have posting suggestions.

MB4, pursuant to your question at 12:36pm (and seriously, I want to know), what’s the military man’s perspective on why all the training and equipping of Georgia (such as it was) didn’t seem to prepare them for dealing with Russian armor? I had always tended to think that the “Fulda Gap scenario” informed much of our thinking about what forces bordering the USSR and its successor state might have to be prepared to do…

DrSteve on August 21, 2008 at 2:25 PM

I’d remain skeptical of [Russia's] intentions in even this modest measure.

Dude, you are so cynical!

OK, sure, Russia’s leaders lied to us about this exact same thing several times just over the past week. But you have to remember, they’ve been doing this kind of crap for well over a hundred years.

So it’s safe to assume they must must be getting really, really close to having it all out of their systems by now.

logis on August 21, 2008 at 2:57 PM

freevillage, that sounds entirely plausible to me (and great advice at that) but still looks like an attempt at deflection on your part. Don’t jack the thread, please. Allah and Ed are both available by e-mail if you have posting suggestions.

I’m glad you think this is plausible. I could point you to quite a number of people here who think that that Georgia has started this mess is Russian propaganda.

I’m not jacking threads. First, it’s very hard to do it if noone wants to respond. They invariably do though despite the local vegetables calling me a troll. Secondly, I don’t support what Russia does beyond an initial response to the attack. So you won’t even have me defend an opposing point of view on the topic of this thread.

freevillage on August 21, 2008 at 3:00 PM

I guess time will tell if the Russians live up to the agreement they signed.

The price of oil went up about $5 a barrel today, so the Russians got what they wanted.

Just one more reason to drill.

Terrye on August 21, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Crap. The new US Ambassador in Russia hates freedom.

Мы видим, что российские войска вполне обоснованно ответили на нападение на миротворцев РФ в Южной Осетии. Но теперь эти силы перешли на грузинскую землю, и территориальная целостность Грузии оказалась под угрозой.

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1014311

Translation:

We see that the Russian forces completely justifiably responded to an attack on the Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. Now these forces have crossed over to the Georgian land, and the territorial integrity of Georgia is under threat.

freevillage on August 22, 2008 at 2:09 AM