Crisis: Russia digs in within Georgia, threatens response to Poland “beyond diplomacy”; Update: Russia freezes ties with NATO?
posted at 3:45 pm on August 20, 2008 by Allahpundit
Share on Facebook | printer-friendly
Consider this an early warning that the conventions might not be the big news story of the next two weeks.
A ranking Russian military official today said Moscow plans to establish 18 long-term checkpoints inside Georgian territory, including at least eight within undisputed Georgian territory outside the pro-Russian enclave of South Ossetia…
“The president ordered us to stop where we were,” he said. “We are not pulling out and pulling back troops behind this administrative border into the territory of South Ossetia.”
The plans appear to violate the terms of a French-endorsed cease-fire deal signed late last week by the presidents of Georgia and Russia. It called for both countries’ troops and allied armed groups to move back to their positions before hostilities between the two countries’ troops led to a Russian military incursion early this month into the staunchly pro-U.S. Caucasus Mountain nation.
Russian officials insist they may keep troops along the South Ossetian-Georgian border as well as within Georgia proper as part of a peacekeeping mission begun in the 1990s.
They’ve already built one checkpoint 30 miles outside Tbilisi, according to the AP, and are working on three more in west-central Georgia. Curiously enough, the sob story (and ultimatum) issued this morning by Russian FM Sergey Lavrov didn’t mention anything about a sustained occupation. As for the screaming red-fonted banner on Drudge warning of a reaction “beyond diplomacy” to the new U.S.-Poland missile deal, the article itself is excruciatingly vague — but Condi Rice’s reply was not. Taunting the bear:
Such comments “border on the bizarre frankly,” Rice said, speaking to reporters traveling with her in Warsaw.
“When you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988,” Rice said. “It’s 2008 and the United States has a … firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland’s territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it’s probably not wise to throw these threats around.”…
Speaking to reporters traveling with her, Rice said, “the Russians are losing their credibility.”
For good measure, NATO’s secretary general sneered that the threats are “pathetic rhetoric.” How smart is it to mock a country that’s jonesing on military victory and already proven it’s willing to spit on a ceasefire it agreed to just days ago? The U.S. and EU seem awfully confident that Russia’s not going to escalate this any further, with Bush insisting this afternoon that Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia and that western powers will work together to ensure the country’s integrity. The only problem: Russia’s already called an emergency meeting of the Duma for Monday to decide whether to formally recognize the provinces as independent, even though, as the Telegraph notes, they’ve agreed to a raft of UN resolutions over the past 10 years recognizing that the two are part of Georgia. What’s the west’s plan if its bluff is called? Notes WaPo, drily, “Bush did not specify what, if anything, the United States and its allies would do to uphold Georgian sovereignty…”
I have no answers, but find myself wondering how long it’ll be before ambassadors start getting recalled and what a week-long “3 a.m. moment” will do to Obama’s message during the Democratic convention. Exit question: How likely is it that the two provinces, occupied and encircled by Russian troops, will “vote” for independence instead of annexation by Moscow?
Update: To recap, then, we’ve got saber-rattling with Poland, hunkering down in Georgia, the emergency Duma meeting, and now this. I hope someone in a position of influence is considering the possibility that they’re not bluffing.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »
Time for a new wall it sounds like, except in Georgia.
Russia lost all credibility hundreds of years ago, this is just more of the same.
Hening on August 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM
I’m waiting for the nutroots to say that Bush planned this to help McCain get elected. Place your bets?
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 20, 2008 at 3:51 PM
This is the end…my only friend the end
tomas on August 20, 2008 at 3:52 PM
I have sinking suspicion that the Russians might try to start something with Ukraine. Call it a hunch.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM
We aren’t going to do anything. The Georgians will.
The question is will the Georgians be recreating the Charge of the Light Brigade, or will be massively distributed Javelins and Stingers?
Second question is even if Old Europe is unwilling to do anything, would New Europe be willing to engage in commensurate activities, effectively sealing Old Europe from Russia (such as damaging the Russian trump card by embargoing natural gas to the continent)?
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 3:54 PM
It has already been done.
carbon_footprint on August 20, 2008 at 3:55 PM
Put them in NATO now, don’t wait until December.
Chakra Hammer on August 20, 2008 at 3:56 PM
…Weird scenes inside the gold mine…
Mike Honcho on August 20, 2008 at 3:56 PM
They ARE staring Something, Cwac, but the Russian army is crap, their air force is crap, their navy is crap…….
They have missiles, but getting boots on the ground in Poland is another universe than Georgia. There are GERMAN soldiers in Poland, serving as advisors and training Polish army soldiers
Janos Hunyadi on August 20, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Dismantle Iran… Or the shield goes up.
freedomplow on August 20, 2008 at 3:58 PM
I think this is an arms dealing cover up
tomas on August 20, 2008 at 3:59 PM
Just throwing it out there, but doesnt the Bible talk about a huge army from Gog and Magog attacking Israel, I thought Iran/Russia are was supposedly that area. If things continue on and war breaks out, it wouldn’t be a far stretch for Iran and Russia to attack Israel and other US interests.
offroadaz on August 20, 2008 at 4:00 PM
The West is the best, baby……
Jack M. on August 20, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Israel has over 500 checkpoints. The Russians are amatuers.
dave742 on August 20, 2008 at 4:01 PM
How long before the Reign of Czar Putin is declared?
meci on August 20, 2008 at 4:01 PM
Look, let’s go worse case scenario here. The US has been widely touted as a “paper tiger,” but just what does Russia have? It stands to reason that if you go to war, you go with the best you have. Russia invaded Georgia as part of a preplanned offensive–so they would have picked the units to invade.
I doubt they picked the poor ones.
What if Georgia, now reinforced by the US and having been given several days of breathing space to regroup their armed forces, decides the cease fire is over? They could, after all. And this time, they have the initiative.
Besides, you know darn well that Polish and Ukrainian troops and their militaries are already increasing their training. This was a huge wakeup call. And invading Ukraine or Poland? That’s gonna take a lot more than the troops Putin shoved into Georgia. Poland has a modern airforce, too. The Ukraine could easily be reinforced, since it’s so large that any Russian troops, even unopposed, would have a long time to conquer the place. And that’s not likely.
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:02 PM
If I were Medvedev, I’d be watching my back right now. There might be an “accident” that would allow Pooty Put to get back into power as an emergency (lifetime) appointment.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 20, 2008 at 4:02 PM
The killer awoke before dawn….
carbon_footprint on August 20, 2008 at 4:05 PM
I am wondering what we would do? Send in the troops to help defend Georgia? Would it be troops actually in Iraq or Afghanistan right now or the units that just returned or the units that are about to go? We don’t really have anyone else.
King of the Britons on August 20, 2008 at 4:05 PM
this from someone who hasn’t responded yet to military incursion other than being ’shocked’.
Totally. The west has been breaking rule #1 since this issue started. Never provoke someone with nothing to lose. Putin loses nothing. If I was him, I’d completely retake all of the old Soviet Union states and say . . . now what. Russia has NOTHING to lose. And Bush will be out of office in January.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:05 PM
Don’t forget Russia’s resumption of Soviet-era nuclear bomber flights and Russia’s stated intention to base nuclear bombers in Cuba.
progressoverpeace on August 20, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Nobuddy challenges the Czar!
bnelson44 on August 20, 2008 at 4:06 PM
Putin knows that America isn’t willing to ‘invade’ Russia no matter what military conflict begins. At worst, Russia will stretch its legs into former soviet territories, force America (and Rice’s) hand, and then retreat back into Russia proper after engaging in war for as long as they want.
Putin is playing the West like a drum. And the West is dumb enough to provoke them.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Oh please. The Chinese play “revolving door” with their positions of power, too. Putin and Medvedev are like two peas in a pod. Bush has to be regretting his “Pooty Poot” antics now.
Outlander on August 20, 2008 at 4:08 PM
Russian army was even more crap in WWII, but they won due to strategy, determination and the ability to throw countless soldiers to their deaths as cannon fodder.
IMO we should take the Koehl’s advice and arm the Georgians with good ATGM’s such as Javelins or Gil’s and let them have some fun with the Russian armor there. Also, put some Patriots in Tbilisi to protect Georgia from Air Raids and they’ll have to send the infantry – and that’s where their head aches begin.
Aristotle on August 20, 2008 at 4:09 PM
It’s Back to the Future!
Think I’m going to see if I can buy the house I grew up in during the 50’s and 60’s. It had a great bomb shelter.
Rod on August 20, 2008 at 4:10 PM
+1. It’s hard to imagine the Russian’s haven’t already game planned this out.
Spirit of 1776 on August 20, 2008 at 4:10 PM
Really?………………….. Prove it!
…………. WITHOUT the United States Military!
Seven Percent Solution on August 20, 2008 at 4:12 PM
I don’t think they’re bluffing. Putin clearly thinks the West will not respond militarily to Russian aggression until it’s far too late for the eastern European republics, and he’s probably right. I don’t see a strong western response until and if Russia threatens a member of the G-7 directly. I doubt he’ll do that before acquiring many small republics to add to his available cannon fodder.
aero on August 20, 2008 at 4:12 PM
NATO needs to act soon. To protect against this behavior is exactly why NATO was formed.
alteredbeat on August 20, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Poland, Estonia, Ukraine, etc. are only relatively recently free of the Russian yoke, they won’t conduct a running retreat if Russia decides to roll over the border. It will be toe to toe defense with friendly neighbors nearby making Russian columns wish they had never started out.
Bishop on August 20, 2008 at 4:12 PM
Anyone know The Messiah’s Russian position? Does he have one, other than “Putin Good, Bush Bad?”
In any case, if Russia wants to be the New Soviet Empire–go ahead. There’s no theological underpinnings like Communism to make the Left love Russia anymore, aside from residual longings. Perhaps even the Germans and French will decide to party this time. Taking on the free world is still a losing proposition.
We may be stretched, but the US can still bring it. We do have troops if it came down to an all out war–and right now, the US is the only completely battle trained army around. Just about every soldier has been in combat. We won’t have the Kasserine Pass effect this time.
Obambi, of course, wouldn’t do anything. Which is why Putin made a mistake here–if he’d waited a year, he could have had every single USSR republic and the warsaw pact without a struggle.
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:13 PM
And for the democrat response?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/washington/20congress.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=world&adxnnlx=1219263036-aqPDte/MFLD13r5y0aOODg
weak
funky chicken on August 20, 2008 at 4:14 PM
GDP of the EU: about $15 trillion
GDP of the US: about $14.5 trillion
GDP of Russia: about $1.2 trillion
In the short term – right now – Russia has the advantage. They’ve caught us asleep. But in the long term, Russia will be absolutely crushed.
Of course, over that long term they can do a lot of damage.
Russia is still a spent empire, albeit one that is ruthless with gas and oil and nuclear weapons. But they have no chance, absolutely none, of winning this conflict.
SteveMG on August 20, 2008 at 4:14 PM
Anyone got the time?
Minutes to midnight
BohicaTwentyTwo on August 20, 2008 at 4:15 PM
I hope to hell we are arming the Georgians to the teeth with Stingers and Javelins.
I’d like very much for us to drop in a airborne battalion outside of Gori, to be supported by a MEU en route and the USAF from Turkey or even Iraq, but that’s just a pipe dream.
In the meantime, Bush needs to explore his own conscious, and whether he’s prepared to see northern Georgia effectively annexed by Russia at the end of his term if he’s not willing to do the things I listed above.
Nessuno on August 20, 2008 at 4:15 PM
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:13 PM
check the NY Times article I linked. I believe CP posted it last night.
perfect opening for the RNC to make an ad and title it
funky chicken on August 20, 2008 at 4:15 PM
that was weird
anyhow, title it “Unproven”
funky chicken on August 20, 2008 at 4:16 PM
SteveMG on August 20, 2008 at 4:14 PM
BUT Russia doesn’t have any debt.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:16 PM
You are absolutely correct about that. But, I don’t know if everything else is quite in place, yet. But, its a sign.
cjs1943 on August 20, 2008 at 4:16 PM
Putin is doing nothing to help Michelle’s children.
rbj on August 20, 2008 at 4:17 PM
I am the Lizard King, I can do anything…….
but on point, We must stand firm against Russia, Stratfor has info that the commies do NOT have the ability for protracted war on traditional fronts such as Europe. We have to call their bluff and hurt them physically.
MNDavenotPC on August 20, 2008 at 4:17 PM
I now wonder whether, as a result of the diplomatic fallout over the Russian invasion of Georgia, a truth about Russia’s opposition to the missile defence shield has been exposed.
When Russia was opposing this shield, their arguments made no sense…how could something essentially defensive…and responsive to threats not perceived as coming from Russia be “destabilizing”? How could Russia feel threatened?
Now, maybe we know.
Perhaps Russia IS threatened by the missile shield…because it provides an obstruction to their military plans for dealing with their former vassal states.
Blaise on August 20, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Still again though, Russia is not attacking America. Our posture in our administration is making it LOOK LIKE Russia is attacking America. . . but Poland is NOT America either.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:17 PM
Oh, they’d run up quite an expense trying to beat down the Polish-Lithuanian Corridor.
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:18 PM
This is really where that “3am phone call” bit is important.
highhopes on August 20, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Yeah, I know the Dems are trying to disarm anyone who might threaten Russia. It’s what they’ve always done. Seriously, would the statement made by Gorbechev be any different if issued by Reid?
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:19 PM
But Poland is part of NATO, so we would be involved in their defense in a big way.
kc8ukw on August 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM
It is considered now, just like an aircraft carrier at sea.
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:20 PM
That might not be a good thing for Putin. And, Russia has a LOT to lose. We aren’t talking communist ideology here, we’re talking KGB mafia kleptocracy with big, vulnerable, financial assets scattered all over the globe, and energy as a one trick pony in their economy.
a capella on August 20, 2008 at 4:21 PM
Let’s start another World War over Poland. It will be fun.
dave742 on August 20, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Thacker: do you ever get tired of being a Russian nationalist here? You can’t seriously believe that putting antimissiles in Poland is a threat to Russia, do you?
Unless you have some fantasy of Poland attacking Russia, that is. Or annexing Kalingrad.
I mean, not even Freevillage toils as hard as you do to defend the Russian Bear. Why do you roll over for Putin so much?
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:22 PM
Don’t forget Russia just signed a mutual defense pack with Syria.
bnelson44 on August 20, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Do they pay taxes and vote? We shouldn’t be in permanent alliances. I prefer unilateral action when it is in the interest of OUR country.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Where is Prince Felix Youssoupov now that we really need him?
rivlax on August 20, 2008 at 4:24 PM
It’s not 1942, Aristotle: Putin’s Russia is not Stalin’s USSR: the massive infrastructure of Institutionalized Terror is a thin shadow now of what existed in the 1940s
Russians have IPODs and laptops and cruise the internet. They won’t run into battle with no weapons, waiting for the man in front of them in an infantry charge to drop his rifle as he dies.
Putin/Russia’s power comes from its partial control of European oil and gas. That’s a High Card, but it’s virtually their only one
Janos Hunyadi on August 20, 2008 at 4:24 PM
Don’t forget Russia just signed a mutual defense pack with Syria.
bnelson44 on August 20, 2008 at 4:23 PM
Eh, now they just made it official, that’s all.
Bishop on August 20, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Now for the
IslamistAhneedadinnerjacket view of things…..Russian welcomes Iran’s cooperation for regional stability
Well now. If they can’t set a timetable…….
Comedy gold line:
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 20, 2008 at 4:25 PM
War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things;
the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free
unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
Who do you think is manning those THAADs? So basically you’re willing to see US Airmen massacred on the ground, those not dead taken into captivity, as long as we don’t defend ourselves or allies from the enemies of Freedom.
You’re a terrific blogger, ever think about opening up a couple posts on the dailykos?
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
we’d better start stopping them now, by poland it will be a full blown war…if we don’t soon they’ll be in alaska!!
and yea I sure hope we’re arming the hell out of the georgians…let em bleed the russians…
right4life on August 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
As if Boris Badenov signing a paper means anything.
jgapinoy on August 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:22 PM
I’m just the messenger. I’m like the sports announcer. Putin is kicking butt (not our butt). Honesty is important to me.
I could be all ‘Ruskies are bad at everything’. And ‘Ruskies are afraid of everyone and every army’. Or my favorite ‘Ruskies are afraid of NATO’. . . but that would belie what is happening.
Russia doesn’t seem to be afraid of anything. I’m getting my bomb shelter ready because our leadership doesn’t have the cahones that Russia’s leadership does.
In a street fight, bet on the one that doesn’t fight fair.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Channeling Pat Buchanan, I see.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Thacker wouldn’t have fought WWII until German tanks were marching on New York, apparently. Perhaps not even then.
AS for the map, If Russia wants to play, either they have to move a whole bunch of troops to Kalingrad first, or they have to take out Ukraine and the Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia states. Going through Beloruss leaves the Russian flanks wide open from a pincer move from Ukraine and those other three. So Russian tanks advancing on Warsaw isn’t likely, near term.
But a Russian attack on Ukraine IS likely–since they are not Nato yet.
Of course, Thacker, you want us to cheerfully watch millions of Ukrainians die too, right?
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:27 PM
This all seems very…………… strange.
Seven Percent Solution on August 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM
What I’d like to know is what’s Obama’s grandmother’s opinion on all of this….
SPCOlympics on August 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM
looks like the ballon is filled and ready to go up. This is one of those turning points in world history. Will the world embrace democracy and human rights of self determintation or will the world revert back to the law of the jungle and those with the biggest guns win. At times like this I’m glad we spend 400 billion a year on our army and I wish we would double it.
Star wars is some comfort at this point. russia knows that only a determined all out nuclear launch will get by the ABM systems we have. Therefore I look for a clash of proxies against russia witht the USa fotting the bill and the arms.
Georgia will be like Iraq for the Russian’s
unseen on August 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM
actually I enjoy watching the idiocy unfold from the commenters here. You are all always shocked at the obvious. It’s hilarious.
If we declare war with them, then we are at war. I just think it is dumb for us to risk America for Poland or any country but AMERICA. That’s just me though.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM
Because nobody wants to loan them money. It’s a bad investment made even worse by these decisions.
China owns about, if I recall correctly, $1 trillion of our debt. But, again, we have a $14 trillion GDP and trillions more in assets.
If China sells their notes, our economy will be hurt – no doubt – but the Chinese economy would collapse without the US market.
Our debt is a problem. But compared to our GDP it’s still manageable.
Russia simply cannot take on the EU and the US. Putin’s making decisions that will forever haunt his country. He’s a fool.
SteveMG on August 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM
I would really like to see Old Europe step up to the plate now. After all these years of thumbing their noses at us because we aren’t as “civilized” as them. Push has come to shove. I don’t think the euro-weenies have it in them. I think the old Russian satelite countries do have the gumption to stand up to Russian, only if they have some help. Such as stingers and predators and etc.
cjs1943 on August 20, 2008 at 4:29 PM
time to
freezeconfiscate some assets, perhaps?funky chicken on August 20, 2008 at 4:30 PM
We all know that Barry isn’t a Muslim. But could it be that Putin has mistaken him for one and is afraid of Muslims?-therefore trying to help McCain get elected?
Goodale on August 20, 2008 at 4:30 PM
I don’t think they’ll die. I actually don’t think there will be much of a fight. My main problem is that I don’t want to have to be on here saying ‘I TOLD YOU SO’ when all of you are shocked at our losing a major American city to a Russian nuclear missile strike.
You will all be shocked. I’ll say ‘I told you so’. So go ahead and call me whatever you want. . . but I’m usually right.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:31 PM
yeah if we just give them the czechoslovakia, and the danzig corridor, AND poland..they’ll be nice to us..we’ll have peace in our time
right4life on August 20, 2008 at 4:31 PM
You called it. Thacker has shown his own morale cowardice in favor of living a long happy life, even if it costs US Mil personnel their lives.
actually I enjoy watching pathetic excuses for human beings try to work their way outa the box they’re in, then overreact when I make a smartalek comment. But that’s just me.
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:31 PM
How so? What are we going to do? We don’t even have the guts, or the brains, to take Iran down – which should have happened years ago.
progressoverpeace on August 20, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Russian foreign debt is about $500 billion (source link).
That’s extremely large in an economy that is about $1 trillion total.
And I don’t even need to mention their demographic problems (declining birth rates, low mortality rates).
Bluster does not equal strength.
SteveMG on August 20, 2008 at 4:32 PM
Reaper, meet Russian checkpoint.
Kafir on August 20, 2008 at 4:33 PM
Good for Putin. I thought we were off base in Kosovo, taking Serbian territory and giving it to a bunch of squatters over Russian and Serbian protest.
Turn about is fair play.
The next stupid thing our government will do is give away the US to a bunch of illegal Mexican squatters.
saiga on August 20, 2008 at 4:33 PM
I’m a natural born skeptic … but its hard not to notice how clearly world events of the last decade have begun to mirror some of that Bible stuff.
Coincidence? Yeah. Probably. But still …
Professor Blather on August 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Russia will be frozen out of Western markets. If they continue to act irrationally, we’ll stop purchasing their oil and gas. Without that, they’ll collapse.
This won’t be won – or lost – in a month, or year. Think a decade.
SteveMG on August 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM
I get Thacker’s concern now–he doesn’t want to do anything until the first Russian troop stands on US Soil. If they invaded Canada, he rolls over at night and sleeps peacefully, since why should Americans defend Canada? The Monroe doctrine? Tear it up!
Dude, not even the founders–James Monroe, being one of them–were for total isolation. Even after the Civil war, before the army was reduced in size, we almost marched into Mexico to kick out the French. A million bayonets marching south.
You are advocating a view that no one has ever believed in–that events in other countries should have no impact on us.
We should break our word–treaty obligations–or withdraw from all treaties everywhere.
Nato countries ARE fighting for us in Afghanistan. They may not be fighting well, but they are fighting there along with us. You are just willing to toss that overboard, until the first bomb hits Helena? Because that’s your position: “If Russia conquers Canada and starts to mass 5 million troops on the northern border, that’s A-ok, because we shouldn’t do a thing until the first blitzkrieg rolls across the border!”
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM
So … is it too late to nominate Condi or what?
Professor Blather on August 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Funny thing is, cut the fuel, cut his power…. and his a good bit of his “pipe out” runs through former soviet block countries, maybe they should shut them down themselves and say we don’t turn them back on until you get out.
Randy1968 on August 20, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Honestly, I just have to run this quote again. The shear brilliance of it augments the greatest minds of history. Thacker GGs me in one stroke, I am done – don’t cry for me Argentina.
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:35 PM
Shades of Ralph Peters. Our bluff and bluster foreign policy is in complete meltdown mode. As Peters said, it is ‘humiliatingly so’.
This is a very dangerous game, but as pointed out quite well above, the Russians have nothing to lose and have read us quite well. What is extremely unhelpful is Rice & Co. lecturing and bluffing about lines in the sand. As with Hitler, Putin is a KGB master at reading people and intimidation.
We better start being very quiet and let our actions speak or say nothing at all. Can you imagine Obama handling this……….a gift for McCain, but it could be a very different world by inauguration.
Starlink on August 20, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Raping Georgia, Putin announces “We are not pulling out.” Sever the cock. Sustain ALL of Georgia’s sovereign territory including oil rich reserves and the pipeline. Declare Georgia NATO membership immediately.
1. Geographically no further East than Turkey’s eastern border.
2. If populations of European ancestry must identify themselves as “Caucasians” then Georgia with the Caucasus is innately European.
3. Georgia, along with Rome, is the most ancient Christian nation, a culture now deemed “Western”.
4. Even Western Russia is part of Europe, having stolen part of Finland to become St. Petersburg, and hosting one of the oldest Christian Orthodox Churches tied to the ancient Byzantine Empire where Constantinople was absconded by the Turks to become Istanbul at the very point where NATO commerce is stalled by Turkey’s imposition upon all other members.
5. Include the Ukraine membership and monopolize the Black Sea, countering any Russian threat into the Mediterranean.
6. The original NATO was established to counter the USSR (black widow mother Russia) swallowing the very countries begging to remain independent today. Whatever longitude NATO imposed originally in order to segregate Russian Communism is no longer applicable as the USSR was officially disbanded already, and Georgia along with the Ukraine petition NATO membership now.
7. Clarify total NATO membership obligations. Turkey was granted membership. But as a member, Turkey must not prevent NATO aid the necessary sea, air and land defense route defending NATO allies including Bulgaria and Romania. Turkey must relinquish its sole proprietorship granting or refusing permission for NATO ships to pass from the Aegean to the Black Sea. Either be a member ally or not. Turkey can’t have its cake and eat it too at the expense of an ally’s survival.
maverick muse on August 20, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Every leader in history has warned against permanent alliances with other countries. Did the Romans use a coalition? Did the British use a coalition?
Why can’t America act on it’s own like the great powers in the past did? When did the rule change needing a ‘coalition’ for a superpower to do its bidding on the world? America won’t stay the superpower forever. . . when we are attacked, we won’t have any help from anyone else.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:37 PM
Thacker, if Russia decides to nuke the US over us protecting Poland, then he’ll nuke us over anything. Just our existence. Unless we agree to let Putin rule us.
What then? What if Putin sez, “Put me as the leader of the US or a Nuke goes off over St. Louis?”
You roll over still? Probably!
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:37 PM
The point is I’d rather not declare war with Russia over a country other than AMERICA. I know that seems distant to you and freaky deaky. But I’d like for American interests to be placed first in foreign policy. Instead American interests are last.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Sheesh. You’d think people could take getting skunked at the Olympics with a bit more maturity…
warriorlawyer on August 20, 2008 at 4:39 PM
No, it doesn’t. Sarkhozy failed to broker a retreat by Russia to the so-called “breakaway” terrotories, allowing Russia to set up “checkpoints” outside of those — and in a country as small as Georgia, that could be anywhere. I think that’s why he’s huffing and puffing in Afghanistan right now — to save face.
Dream on. The Georgians don’t have any missiles, and they won’t be getting any from us.
Don’t hold your breath. Someone in a position of influence — someone whose specialty is Russia — should have anticipated this. But they were most likely too busy brokering that never ending quest for peace between Israel and
Hamasthe Palestinians, or even worse, bringing Russia to the table as a negotiating partner with Iran. That’s working out well, isn’t it?Nichevo on August 20, 2008 at 4:40 PM
Vanceone on August 20, 2008 at 4:37 PM
The point is that everyone here is ’shocked’ that they are still in Georgia. That means people here don’t understand the situation, or what is going on in his mind. That means that if he does issue a nuclear strike, people here will be ’shocked’ again. If America declares war on Russia (even over Poland). . . I’ll expect a nuclear strike.
During the cold war, America never declared war on Russia.
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Putin/Medvedev probably did make a mistake by invading Georgia during our election year–which strengthens the case for McCain (who bears the scars of the Cold War in his body) over the silver-tongued do-nothing Obama. They could have waited until Condi Rice (who majored in Soviet history in college) was no longer Secretary of State before they tried this coup d’etat.
Notice that Poland is suddenly very eager to have nuclear-missile defense systems!
Besides, most military analysts have concluded that the “surge” strategy has worked in Iraq, and some of the troops may no longer be needed there. What if, instead of taking the long way home through Kuwait, some of them drove north through Iraqi Kurdistan and eastern Turkey (a NATO member) into…Georgia? Or if the US Navy sent ships into the Black Sea off Georgia’s west coast? Bush still has time to call Putin’s bluff–whether he will do it is another question. Maybe he’s trying to stall the issue and let McCain use it in his campaign.
Steve Z on August 20, 2008 at 4:41 PM
funky chicken on August 20, 2008 at 4:41 PM
You know what seems distant and freaky deaky to me? Poor history.
Is this an invitation? Do you want me to ripe you a new one by taking up the next three pages of comments citing the entire history of the Roman Empire and their coalition dealings with tribes? Or do you want me to keep it specific with the Napoleonic Coalitions?
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:41 PM
I know the Russians are B@stards…but I can’t remember exactly what kind of B@stards.
I think Patton knew.
Whete is MB4?
pseudonominus on August 20, 2008 at 4:42 PM
ThackerAgency on August 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM
You find this hilarious??
TheEJS on August 20, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Rod on August 20, 2008 at 4:42 PM
Comment pages: 1 2 3 Next »