Chimpy on August 18, 2008 at 3:59 PM

Abu Ghraib? Sorta figured. Given the source of the comment.

I’d like to be able to walk through Tskhinvali with a pocket calculator, a 100-meter measuring tape, a transit and a note pad. It is easy to walk back from a point of impact to determine the source of fire. Objective analysis.

Why are so many so quick to jump to conclusions about everything based on nothing more than their clear bias toward anyhtiny that can in any way by any contortion blamed on Bush?

Oh, yeah, “gotcha analysis.” The new sterling standard of the Left.

- The Cat

coldwarrior on August 18, 2008 at 11:01 AM

Change a few words around and you are talking about Abu Ghraib.

MarkTheGreat on August 18, 2008 at 12:32 PM

The Civil War created The United States Of America. Before that, the land was really nothing more than a series of States, in two sections.

As for the two world war references, you have proved my point of “despite political differences” because, come those wars, once the govt decided to go to war, the people rallied behind it. It doesn’t matter that America tried hard to stay out of WWI, once it went in, it went in en masse.

Today, only a direct invasion would unite the people.

1. The law recognizes a “best evidence rule” that states a preference for more reliable evidence in support of a proposition than less reliable evidence. (Its initial use was to say that original documents are preferred in court proceedings to copies of documents). If you want evidence of Russian abuses, would you prefer to rely on an anecdotal account probably fed by Georgia or would you prefer to rely on all the news footage, the satellite imagery, and other direct evidence of Russian excesses in the country?

The entire point of my original comment was just to say that we should focus our rhetoric against Russia on the systematic and more easily-documented abuses. Press reports with anecdotal evidence that “sounds exactly like something the Russkies would do” should be read with some skepticism. Have we learned nothing from the Dan Rather “fake but accurate” meme and Haditha and the like?

I am in agreement with you, and concede that I would much rather have actual evidence of such abuses. However, with Russian soldiers killing journalists and shooting at cameramen, the acquisition of such evidence would seem highly unlikely. In the face of that problem, I would far more like to see something done about it now rather than after the atrocities have become so egregious that no country in the world can ignore them. I’d rather have prevented the Holocaust than discover what happened, as it were.

Though, you make quite a good point when you relate the matter to Rathergate. The only difference is that this may involve people being tortured, raped, and killed.

2. With respect to the Nazis, first, I hereby invoke Godwin’s Law to say that you lose and I win. :) Second, I’m not opposed to the publication of these sorts of stories — so no, I wouldn’t have opposed publication of anecdotal evidence of Nazi atrocities against Jews early on in WWII. But remember that the Nazi government had official policies of forced relocation and concentration camps, and Hitler and company gave speeches ad nauseum about how evil Jews were, etc.

Outlander on August 18, 2008 at 12:50 PM

…so the current ousting of Georgians from their homes isn’t forces relocation? As for concentration camps, and this is not meant to be mocking, but have you completely forgotten the gulags? As for the speeches about Jews, does that not compare to Russian propaganda making the Georgians out to be vicious killers and invaders? The parallels are being used because history has shown the nation of Russia to have the same conquering mindset as Nazi Germany, not because it’s convenient.

Yes, even with the changes it’s still insane.

freevillage on August 18, 2008 at 12:39 PM

Of course it’s quite possible the soldiers and generals were drunk, but I know how upset you get when that even comes up, so I won’t go there. Perhaps some pictures showing Ivan’s professionalism and concern for the Georgian citizens might help.

Yes, even with the changes it’s still insane.

freevillage on August 18, 2008 at 12:39 PM

…and yet with the changes, civilians were killed, from orders passed down from those men. So how is it insane?

Seixon on August 18, 2008 at 11:52 AM

I think Israel should expand their borders so they can have a better life and feed their families…

NO JEW IS ILLEGAL!!

MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:04 AM

1. The law recognizes a “best evidence rule” that states a preference for more reliable evidence in support of a proposition than less reliable evidence. (Its initial use was to say that original documents are preferred in court proceedings to copies of documents). If you want evidence of Russian abuses, would you prefer to rely on an anecdotal account probably fed by Georgia or would you prefer to rely on all the news footage, the satellite imagery, and other direct evidence of Russian excesses in the country?

The entire point of my original comment was just to say that we should focus our rhetoric against Russia on the systematic and more easily-documented abuses. Press reports with anecdotal evidence that “sounds exactly like something the Russkies would do” should be read with some skepticism. Have we learned nothing from the Dan Rather “fake but accurate” meme and Haditha and the like?

2. With respect to the Nazis, first, I hereby invoke Godwin’s Law to say that you lose and I win. :) Second, I’m not opposed to the publication of these sorts of stories — so no, I wouldn’t have opposed publication of anecdotal evidence of Nazi atrocities against Jews early on in WWII. But remember that the Nazi government had official policies of forced relocation and concentration camps, and Hitler and company gave speeches ad nauseum about how evil Jews were, etc.

– Hey, soldier. I’m your general. You know, PutinHitlerMaoStalin asked me to pass this along to you: kill civilians.
– Oh, ok. Hey, civilian. PutinHitlerMaoStalin told us to kill you.

freevillage on August 18, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Yeah. Absolutely silly idea.

MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:54 AM

Yes, even with the changes it’s still insane.

There was a time, despite political differences, when Americans were as one on national security and the “American Way”. In times of conflict, Americans could be relied upon to rally to the flag, so to speak. 1968 ended that.

You really need to read up on your history. Look especially at the years prior to WWII, WWI, and the Civil War.

Russia is doing exactly what Israel has done a few times in its history.

The only difference is that Isreal never did this.

Of course the anti-semites will believe any lie, so long as it supports their biases.

How far we have fallen. In one generation. This is the 40th Anniversary of the Left taking over the Democrat party. Progress?

MarkTheGreat on August 18, 2008 at 11:42 AM

There was a time, despite political differences, when Americans were as one on national security and the “American Way”. In times of conflict, Americans could be relied upon to rally to the flag, so to speak. 1968 ended that.

[Romeo13 on August 18, 2008 at 10:43 AM]

Thanks for providing your perspective.

—

Anyone who thinks Putin did not give the order…really needs to brush up on their reading.

[coldwarrior on August 18, 2008 at 11:01 AM]

Agreed. Mocking the way the information is presented rather than addressing the substance of the information seems more like a concession that the substance is true.

- Hey, soldier. I’m your general. You know, PutinHitlerMaoStalin asked me to pass this along to you: kill civilians.
- Oh, ok. Hey, civilian. PutinHitlerMaoStalin told us to kill you.

freevillage on August 18, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Yeah. Absolutely silly idea.

I hear ya. It’s almost as funny as any idea that Putin ordered his generals to pass the word along. Who thinks up these things, anyway?

- Hey, soldier. I’m your general. You know, Putin asked me to pass this along to you: kill civilians.
- Oh, ok. Hey, civilian. Putin told us to kill you.