POW: I remember McCain telling the cross story in 1971
posted at 5:25 pm on August 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Hopefully the left will challenge this. Anything that keeps McCain’s heroism front and center, without a shred of evidence from any eyewitness that he’s lying, is tantamount to an in-kind campaign contribution. More, please.
I called Orson Swindle, a fellow POW who is campaigning for McCain, to ask him about it.
“I recall John telling that story when we first got together in 1971, when were talking about every conceivable thing that had ever happened to us when we were in prison” Swindle told me a few minutes ago. “Most of us had been kept apart or in small groups. Then, in 1970, they moved us into the big cell. And when we all got to see each other and talk to each other directly, instead of tapping through walls, we had 24 hours a day, seven days a week to talk to each other, and we shared stories. I vaguely recall that story being told, among other stories.”
“I remember it from prison,” Swindle continued. “There were several stories similar to that in which guards — a very few, I might add — showed compassion to the prisoners. It was rare, and I never met one, but some of the guys did.”
I’ll make you follow the link for Swindle’s assessment of the naysayers. He’s right too about the guards and their associates occasionally showing compassion; Bob Owens googled around to see if he could corroborate McCain’s story and stumbled upon a similar incident involving former POW (and GOP senator) Jeremiah Denton. The dumbest part of all of this — aside from the fact that the nutroots is pushing it into the mainstream media, where it’ll redound to McCain’s advantage and dirty St. Barack’s hands by association — is that if he was going to make up stories to prove his devotion while in prison, surely he could do better than this. I remember some lefty (at TNR, I think) noting quite rightly after McCain’s Christmas ad came out that the specifics of it really are more a testament to his captor’s faith and humanity than to McCain’s. If Maverick wanted to dazzle believers with evidence of his own grace under pressure, he’s got material to work with. But then, this is a guy whose son was stationed in Iraq and yet who almost never mentions that fact on the trail even though it gives him moral cover in his push for a sustained troop presence. Anyway, rock on, nutroots.
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War Heroism?
More like War Victim, I think.
Two different things.
Shall we give McCain the Presidency just because he suffered 40+ years ago?
alphie on August 18, 2008 at 5:28 PM
But yet it was ok for Bill Clinton to make a cross of stones when he KNEW he was being watched.
HawaiiLwyr on August 18, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Your definition of heroism is as shabby as your definition of patriotism and victory.
apollyonbob on August 18, 2008 at 5:29 PM
Now that the nutroots have invested on this the goalpost are moved in 5,4,3,2…and Orson Swindle is a liar who can’t be trusted. They are that desperate.
Topsecretk9 on August 18, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Incidents like this make me more and more confident of our chances in November, and glad that the Left has no intellectual basis for their arguments.
apollyonbob on August 18, 2008 at 5:32 PM
I admire John for his military service. I have other problems with him, but out of the two, he is so far above the other, I have no reason to think he would lie about this cross issue. Sure am waiting for Nov. to get this over with.
L
letget on August 18, 2008 at 5:32 PM
I never saw that video with my own eyes, but I heard Limbaugh describing the scene on his program. What an absolutely amusing contrast, McCain and Clinton’s similar cross story.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 5:32 PM
alphie - tham nan was offered the opportunity to leave because his father was an admiral but he declined to leave. What is that if not heroism? Do you suppose that he thought ot himself “hmm, someday I want to be president and staying here instead of going home would be to my advantage.”
DerKrieger on August 18, 2008 at 5:33 PM
No, we shall give McCain the presidency because he is by far the better choice than the platitude-spewing empty suit that he is running against.
connertown on August 18, 2008 at 5:34 PM
Wow. That… I’ve said for a long time now that I truly admire him, specifically for what he endured. It makes my opposition to him difficult at times, but it is sincerely incredible.
I know a lot of people are saying McCain is now Kerry, always talking about his Vietnam experience, but at least McCain has a serious Vietnam experience, one few will ever understand. And it’s an incredible story about a man’s integrity even in such a horrible situation.
And it directly relates to how he might lead, not taking the easy way out, keeping hope and faith, etc….
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 5:34 PM
should be “the man” really fat fingered that one.
DerKrieger on August 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM
Do you ever think before you speak? Or are you just that slow to begin with?
upinak on August 18, 2008 at 5:36 PM
alphie try to understand this:
1. McCain was offered an early release.
2. He turned it down because of the code of honor. First in first out.
3. He did so AFTER he had already been through torture.
4. Could any of us have the stones to do that?
NOT ME.
ArmyAunt on August 18, 2008 at 5:37 PM
Yet they believe Jon Cary’s b.s. war stories.
Wise, the footage of Klinton making a cross out of rocks on that Normandy beach is CLASSIC Bill Klinton.
Tony737 on August 18, 2008 at 5:38 PM
What’s that smell? It is strongest near that bridge over there….
Think_b4_speaking on August 18, 2008 at 5:38 PM
Two different things.
And McCain is both.
But no, we should not give McCain the Presidency simply because he was a war hero. Who’s saying that?
Sure, it speaks well of his character, but the real reason we should give him the Presidency is that he’d make a much better President than Obama.
sandberg on August 18, 2008 at 5:39 PM
Why are you still here?
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 5:39 PM
There is a NPR article that cites this story in 2005. Does the press not know how to google….
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4959134
MYounger on August 18, 2008 at 5:39 PM
alphie - A war victim is someone who claims a purple heart for a tiny scratch. A war hero is someone who sacrifices his own safety to protect and inspire his fellow soldiers.
See the difference?
pedestrian on August 18, 2008 at 5:40 PM
So how do you feel about Obama whining that his dad left him and his mother when he was a young man ?
Does that qualify him as a president ?
William Amos on August 18, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Modern Liberalism represents weakness. Just look east across to Europe where decrepit socialistic Liberalism has so weakened Europe that they are paralyzed with fear over Russia even though they have twice the population, have more modern weapons systems, and better trained personnel. What they lack is backbone from decades of Liberalism. Liberalism is a philosophy and ideology of the weak and weakness leads to war because the aggressor acts upon weakness.
DerKrieger on August 18, 2008 at 5:41 PM
Haha, up.
When I think of a War Hero, I think of someone like Audie Murphy whose actions actually helped win the war they were fighting in.
POW as hero?
Talk about lowering the bar.
Was everyone we tortured at Abu Ghraib a “War Hero” too, just like Fudge Haus McCain?
alphie on August 18, 2008 at 5:41 PM
See the difference? - Ped
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Tony737 on August 18, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Who’s turn is it to get the pooper scooper?
Hening on August 18, 2008 at 5:42 PM
There is absolutely nothing that qualifies Obama for POTUS and Geradine Ferraro was absolutely correct when she said that were he a white man he wouldn’t have been seriously considered given his thin resume.
DerKrieger on August 18, 2008 at 5:43 PM
I’ve been looking for that clip on youtube, maybe no one ever saved it and uploaded it, Tony737. Nothing from an image search. Even finding a text to link was very scarce. I did find this other precious Clinton moment.
Hope the left does keep on this issue and others. One could only hope that the MoveOn folks can use their precious talents to make an ad against McCain’s phony cross story.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Was everyone we tortured at Abu Ghraib a “War Hero” too
It cracks me up when leftists think that playing dumb is some form of intellectual sophistication.
sandberg on August 18, 2008 at 5:46 PM
Good effort, but you are using logic against him. It’ll never work.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Audie Murphy, unlike you, would probably give McCain a good handshake and a smack on the arm.
Audie Murphy is and was a true hero, but would never cut down those whom were in battle, caught and tortured.
Audie Murphy would look at you like an insect that needed to be squished then talk to you.
You bring nothing and leave with nothing as usual.
upinak on August 18, 2008 at 5:47 PM
Are you really that ignorant or just pretending?
This is not about the election, it is about Excitable Andy Sullivan calling John McCain a liar.
EJDolbow on August 18, 2008 at 5:47 PM
“The beauty of the soul shines out when a man bears with composure one heavy mischance after another, not because he does not feel them, but because he is a man of high and heroic temper” - Aristotle
DerKrieger on August 18, 2008 at 5:48 PM
By the way, Alf, most Americans would much rather their President be a man who DEFENDED the US than a man like Obama who thinks America is not worth defending (or saluting).
EJDolbow on August 18, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Alphie,
Because you are a bit on the slow side, I’ll go gentle with you.
McCain shouldn’t be President because he’s been in the military. Nobody is saying that he should. The left (your buds) has tried to tarnish his record in regard to this incident. All that is being done here is a corroboration.
Did you offer this much resistance when “war heroes” John Kerry (he of the magic hat) and Al (reporter) Gore were running? Not likely.
john1schn on August 18, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Sullivan used to vote Republican, just like me, EJ.
How sad to see the Rapture Republican mullahs turn the GOP into a fringe party…
And turn John McCain into some kind of shabby saint.
alphie on August 18, 2008 at 5:51 PM
alphie suffers from verbal diarrhea. Prognosis? Incurable.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 18, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Define Tortured at Abu Ghraib please. I don’t think it comes anywhere close to what McCain experienced.
PappaMac on August 18, 2008 at 5:51 PM
Alphie,
Stand in front of a mirror.
Turn around.
Drop yer drawers.
Bend over.
Spread em.
Take a good hard look at your soul.
Regards,
Akzed on August 18, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Better than giving it to Barry because he has experience doing blow!
Chuck Schick on August 18, 2008 at 5:52 PM
Somehow I doubt you ever voted Republican.
phronesis on August 18, 2008 at 5:52 PM
I wouldn’t characterize a person who claims a purple heart as a war victim. That demeans true war victims. John Kerry was (and still is) an opportunist.
john1schn on August 18, 2008 at 5:53 PM
What is the Dem party if not a coalition of the disaffected and angry? The Dem party is a ragtag collection of grievance groups that for one reason or another are at war with the Judeo-Christian, Western, WASP culture of the US. Which part of this motley group is pro-America?
DerKrieger on August 18, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Since Sullivan is not an American citizen, he’s never voted for any Republican at any time in this country.
Try again, Alphie.
Although why the hell am I responding to her?
SteveMG on August 18, 2008 at 5:56 PM
Heh, and don’t forget the photo op where Clinton’s flunkies staged a fallen little American flag, so he could happen upon it and thoughtfully, wistfully, set it to rights, then stare meaningfully into the distance before trudging on into the sunset. What a deep moment that wasn’t.
surrounded on August 18, 2008 at 5:56 PM
He’s not a hero for being tortured. He’s a hero for the way he conducted himself while being tortured.
He kept his integrity and denied our enemies a propoganda battle by remaining where he was even though he knew exactly what that meant, and that’s just one example of his heroism while a POW.
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 5:57 PM
Did that happen on Omaha beach too, surrounded?
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Alphie, your consuming, blind, hatred of Christians doesn’t look so good on you…I thought you were a peace/love/diversity liberal who tries to make everyone happy?
Is it only Christians that you a have a raging hatred for?
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 5:58 PM
This is partially why commenters don’t seem me much in the threads anymore. I am just tired of running in to these types of people who put forth silly, fallacious, baiting sort of comments. It’s obvious he only posts this drivel because he wants the rest of us to accept his premise and respond to it.
So now it is my time to waste energy to respond to it. The issue isn’t over electing someone based on their time in a POW camp, the issue is to the validity McCain’s response, which was so profoundly effective in itself but certainly more than Obama’s response. It is because the answer was so powerful, are the media circling the wagons in an attempt to protect their candidate.
So, go on, be snarky. You may think yourself so clever, but to the rest of us it’s just sophomoric.
Weebork on August 18, 2008 at 5:58 PM
Alphie,
Don’t let ‘em get you down. You know what you’re talking about and I have no doubt you can see it clearer than anyone else on this or any other blog.
Forget all this nonsense about passing up his opportunity to get released. If he had been released he would have had to walk a REALLY long way to get back to the US. Besides, everyone I know understands that his “captivity” was all part of a cynical plan to win POTUS. Sheesh! The lengths that the man will go to. When I heard that McCain broke his own teeth off just to make it seem like the VC were hard on him I knew something was up. I’ve read that McCain actually had it done before he went into the service under anesthesia and wore a bridge before getting shot down. Some hero.
Let’s not forget that all those years McCain was in “captivity” that he was in the Hanoi Hilton. The Hilton for heaven sakes. To be fair I heard that the room service hours were very shoddy but that hardly sounds like torture. Obama lived in Chicago and went to Harvard on a scholarship. Everyone knows that is code for living in the ghetto in Cambridge. There is no comparison. Obama suffered and struggled while McCain relaxed in Hilton. Who’s the hero?
The bottom line is that McCain flew into the guns that got him shot down - on purpose according to some but others have told me he was just inept. (Did you know he graduated 835 out of a 255 person class.) As he was crashing to the ground (crashing his 14th plane and slamming into the other pilots like John Kerry who were dropping aid while he was dropping bombs) I have it on good authority that he was screaming McCain in ‘08! McCain in ‘08.
Mormon Doc on August 18, 2008 at 5:59 PM
He’s not pretending and is relishing in all the responses to his dumb a$$ posts.
Les in NC on August 18, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Good question. We’re all better off ignoring trolls, but it’s just not that easy.
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 5:59 PM
Allah, I’ve never heard of this–which supports your point quite well.
Kralizec on August 18, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Looks like you dropped this: “/” .. here you go. That can go at the end of your comment like that, next time.
(or a “/s”)
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 6:02 PM
Your satire was great up until this point. Remember, Lurch was tooting around in a boat applying for purple hearts because of hangnails.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 18, 2008 at 6:03 PM
Shoddy roomservice… BAHHAHHAHA!
That was priceless!
upinak on August 18, 2008 at 6:06 PM
As opposed to Ubama who has done ________________ .
SouthernGent on August 18, 2008 at 6:07 PM
yes, i believe so…he pulled so much phoney crap, its hard to keep it all straight.
reminds me of obama’s “fainting” followers, “homemade” poster hander-outers, etc.
We are just a buncha dumb clod-hoppers, they have to invent stuff like this for us to be able to grasp the depth of their feelings.
McCain is just an honest man who doesn’t have to prove anything…his record speaks for itself.
surrounded on August 18, 2008 at 6:08 PM
I think it’s unnecessary on that one.
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 6:08 PM
How sad to see alphie using one of the American left’s tritest, most over-used expressions. If I had a quarter for every time I wished I had a nickel for every time a left-”liberal” said how sad something is, I’d have five times more hypothetical money than I would if I had a nickel for every time a left-”liberal” said how sad something is. It’s so fvcking sad.
Kralizec on August 18, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Yes ma’am.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Seems that the Libs are so used to hearing made up crap that they just assume that a very poignant story told by a candidate has to be fake.
This just one of the major differences between the two candidates for Prez.
d1carter on August 18, 2008 at 6:09 PM
Absolutely. The way one behaves in captivity reflects on one’s country and character. He was exemplary in captivity. He is a real war hero.
Spirit of 1776 on August 18, 2008 at 6:11 PM
Not “absolutely” to the 2nd question - the silly Abu Ghraib part - obviously.
Spirit of 1776 on August 18, 2008 at 6:11 PM
mutliplied by the quatum leap, added with a googlplex and to the fourth power of infinity. Hmmm I would call you rich!
upinak on August 18, 2008 at 6:14 PM
Like the TV show ALF (Alien Life Form)
Buford Gooch on August 18, 2008 at 6:15 PM
guys, don’t talk to it. its posts have become ever more desperate cries for attention (much like the statements coming from its favorite candidate, come to think of it).
just let the bilge speak for itself and move on.
funky chicken on August 18, 2008 at 6:20 PM
If the local trolls get worked up about something, I take it as a sign that the issue is a real loser for Obama.
Like AP said - “rock on, nutroots.”
forest on August 18, 2008 at 6:29 PM
alphie
I actually do appreciate the good work that you do, coming in here to get us all riled up at the idiot Left. I am sure that you have convinced a number of soft supporters of McCain to get out and vote. Keep up the good work and we will get McCain elected
Linh_My on August 18, 2008 at 6:30 PM
Is that why he spends so much time watching porta-potties and noting who used them? Who knew!
TheBigOldDog on August 18, 2008 at 6:33 PM
I’m still trying to unpack that one…
The Republican party is hardly as conservative or as beholden to ‘value voters’ as it was in the 80’s. If you were going to be ’sad’, that boat has sailed. You missed your chance to be emo over evangelicals in the party by about 20 years. Sullivan is lying about ever voting Republican or he’s an idiot who just learned to read the platform…it hasn’t changed a bit since then even if it’s ignored more and more often.
If the GOP is turning into a fringe party it’s because they no longer stand for smaller government and fiscal responsibility…not because they tend to have broader appeal to Christians.
Asher on August 18, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Then again, I’ve certainly been wrong before, especially when it comes to satire.
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 18, 2008 at 6:03 PM
I beg to differ. John Kerry’s valorous record as a pilot is seared into my memory. Seared I tells ya!
Mormon Doc on August 18, 2008 at 6:34 PM
We know alphie won’t answer this so I’ll do it for her:
“Torture” at Abu Ghraib mainly consisted of being scared/offended by big dogs (on leashes), having to disrobe around female guards, and having to take orders from female guards.
Oh, the humanity! Is it any wonder the Left is so outraged at these abuses? It’s amazing any of the A.G. prisoners survived such horrors!
AZCoyote on August 18, 2008 at 6:36 PM
I suppose it was pretty obvious, but that was just my ‘be ever vigilant with the use of the “/” or “/s” tag at the end of the comment as a courtesy!’ suggestion.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Don’t forget panties on the head! Oh, the hugh manatee!
john1schn on August 18, 2008 at 6:39 PM
AZCoyote on August 18, 2008 at 6:36 PM
To be fair didn’t they also turn some of those guys into human lollipops. It seems I remember reading one account of the abuse that sounded like it’s influence came from San Francisco recreational pursuits.
Mormon Doc on August 18, 2008 at 6:40 PM
Always helpful. I’ve seen way too many people here get snapped at by other well-meaning posters over misunderstood sarcasm.
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 6:41 PM
wise_man and Esthier
I didn’t use the /s because the stuff was so over the top. I was hoping someone would say “It wasn’t a Hilton! I don’t even think it was a very good hotel.” HA HA HA HA…(I am aware that laughing at my own jokes is a sign of sickness.)
Mormon Doc on August 18, 2008 at 6:44 PM
You’re fine; intent’s obvious enough.
Spirit of 1776 on August 18, 2008 at 6:49 PM
I have a theory about you ‘alphie’. You are placed, paid for by HotAir just to kick up the comments in the threads. You are not real. No one could be so stupid, so wrong all of the time.
Therefore, from this moment forward, I shall not waste another word on you. I suggest the rest of HotAir do the same. If we continue to respond to your comments, you will stick around. If we ignore your tripe, perhaps you will go away.
So long.
carbon_footprint on August 18, 2008 at 7:05 PM
PS: I didn’t say that I would not cut\paste this same comment into any future threads that you will most surely troll.
carbon_footprint on August 18, 2008 at 7:08 PM
alphie,
If you can name a SINGLE person who has stated that McCain should be president because he was a POW, please name that person.
If you can’t, then live forever with the tag of shameless shill.
MarkTheGreat on August 18, 2008 at 7:09 PM
forcing prisoners to form a naked pyramid is now torture?
talk about lowering the bar.
MarkTheGreat on August 18, 2008 at 7:12 PM
John McCain is a hero and will be President in spite of the Far Right & the Far Left loons…
McCain 2008
AprilOrit on August 18, 2008 at 7:13 PM
It’s true John McCain is a hero to millions of illegal immigrants, but they don’t get to vote…yet, April.
alphie on August 18, 2008 at 7:16 PM
Ahhh, if I laughed at it earlier… then am I sick as well? sighs
upinak on August 18, 2008 at 7:20 PM
alphie are you worried that they will take your nanny/wet nurse away? Dude, you do realize that someone talking care of an older person does not mean that you are the infant.
Shakes head.
upinak on August 18, 2008 at 7:21 PM
Well, it is torture to the sexually repressed prudish society that dominates the Mideast. Not that I’m excusing them They need a little booze and porn over there.
john1schn on August 18, 2008 at 7:25 PM
I’m surprised that Alphie actually followed here from the original CQ—where he/she/it got his/her it’s head handed back on a regular basis. If any of you were regulars, surely you recognoze the little scamp.
irongrampa on August 18, 2008 at 7:30 PM
I have absolutely no problem with McCain’s story. It’s good to have someone who knows what war is, and is believeable, run for office. I’d rather have McCain (warts and all) than have the Obamessiah, who has been endorsed by the Communist Party USA!
jdawg on August 18, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Who’s playing? Alphie really is that dumb.
Random Numbers (Brian Epps) on August 18, 2008 at 7:53 PM
If McCain had just been captured and held you might possibly have a point. However, when the North Vietnamese offered to let him go, and he refused because he knew they would use this for propaganda purposes, he definitely moved into the hero category. He demonstrated that he was a patriot and cared more about his country and fellow soldiers than himself. McCain was not my choice for Republican candidate, but he has proven himself a patriot and a hero, something that I doubt either you or Obama understands.
Buford on August 18, 2008 at 7:59 PM
If McCain hadn’t been such a loser since his celebrity release I might agree with you, Buford.
Remember, Nixon was more of a War “Hero” than John McCain was…and look how he turned out.
alphie on August 18, 2008 at 8:22 PM
Thinking is something the Dhimocrats don’t do. If they had thought processes in the first place, they wouldn’t be Dhimocrats.
As Michael Savage says, “Liberalism is a mental disorder”. Being slow is probably just one of the symptoms.
Mooseman on August 18, 2008 at 8:30 PM
Nixon wasn’t considered a war hero. He saw no combat in WWII.
From Wikpedia (best I can do on short notice):
[Nixon] enlisted in the United States Navy in August 1942. He received training at Naval Air Station Quonset Point, Rhode Island and was assigned to Ottumwa, Iowa, before being relocated and serving in the supply corps on several islands in the South Pacific, commanding cargo handling units in the SCAT. During World War II, he attained the rank of lieutenant commander.
Sheesh.
SteveMG on August 18, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Liberalism IS a mental disorder.
Right_of_Attila on August 18, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Stop feeding the troll.
TinMan13 on August 18, 2008 at 10:09 PM
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