Did Obama’s pay grade get demoted?
posted at 2:25 pm on August 18, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
It seems the higher Barack Obama climbs in politics, the lower his pay grade gets. Don Surber finds a quote from 2001, when Obama served in the Illinois Senate, that indicates that his pay grade covered the kind of determination that Obama now says exceeds his authority. Obama told Rick Warren that he couldn’t comment on the moment personhood gets established:
Q. Now, let’s deal with abortion. 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. you know, as a pastor I have to deal with this all of the time. All of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue. 40 million abortions. At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?
A. Well, I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade. But let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion because this is something obviously the country wrestles with. One thing that I’m absolutely convinced of is there is a moral and ethical content to this issue. So I think that anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue I think is not paying attention. So that would be point number one.
But in 2001, Obama must have had more authority to opine on this same question:
“Number one, whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a — a child, a 9-month old — child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it — it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute.”
Obama made this argument to oppose the Illinois bill that would have forced Christ Hospital and other medical providers to give life-supporting treatment to any infant born alive, regardless of whether the birth occurred during an abortion or not. Essentially, Obama argues that only those infants carried to term achieve personhood through birth, not those he deems “pre-viable” but which were born alive anyway.
The argument is completely specious anyway, as successful abortions do not produce a living fetus but kill them in the womb. It’s the act of birth that would have conferred personhood to the infant in every single version of the bill, not its gestational period. In fact, that is the overwhelming consensus not just in America but around the world for the outermost limit of bestowing personhood on human offspring — accepted by everyone but Barack Obama.
It seems that Obama felt this issue was within his pay grade before it was above it. Given his radical and disturbing position on the point in 2001, perhaps we can all be grateful for that.









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I was for my authority before I was against it.
jgapinoy on August 18, 2008 at 2:28 PM
“Words, just words.” – Barack Obama
TooTall on August 18, 2008 at 2:30 PM
“The Buck Stops Here”
Harry S. Truman
One of the last REAL Democrats
RobCon on August 18, 2008 at 2:30 PM
Ya know, I’m startin’ to think maybe he’s not the messiah after all. I mean, I’m pretty sure Jesus would know when life begins, that IS His paygrade.
Tony737 on August 18, 2008 at 2:31 PM
Just making it up as he goes along.
Cicero43 on August 18, 2008 at 2:32 PM
But he was then speaking to the issue of “personhood” on the state level, and now he is being asked to speak to the issue of “personhood” on the federal level.
AverageJoe on August 18, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Square peg, meet round hole.
tommylotto on August 18, 2008 at 2:35 PM
At least in 2001 Obama said what he really believes concerning abortion…go ahead and suck the brains out of a baby so its skull will collapse and make it easier to extract it from the birth canal. No moral problem here. That’s what he would have liked to have said. The difference between Obama 2001 and the 2008 version is that Obama 2008 doesn’t have enough spine to tell the American voter what he really thinks.
sdd on August 18, 2008 at 2:38 PM
He said he is not paying attention.
He wants to protect legalized abortions and he doesn’t care about anything else.
pedestrian on August 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM
You can’t fix stupid!!!
PappaMac on August 18, 2008 at 2:40 PM
Greeting Customers at Wal-Mart is above this man’s paygrade. I wonder when buyers remorse kicks in among Democrats.
P.S. Congrats Ed on your mention on Rush today.
highhopes on August 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
No guts, No glory. The loser, once messiah hath spoken.
Griz on August 18, 2008 at 2:42 PM
Rush is discussing this. Nice plug, Ed!
JammieWearingFool on August 18, 2008 at 2:44 PM
Why? He’s obviously lying now to pander to moderates for the general. The man is pure evil. There’s no doubt about it. That one doesn’t get the feeling that he’s evil, and that he’s almost likeable, even to someone directly opposed to his ideology doesn’t help. In fact, it just shows how dangerous he really is.
Darth Executor on August 18, 2008 at 2:45 PM
All abortion is homicide. Whether or not it is ever justifiable, is the real debate.
LimeyGeek on August 18, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Who else thinks Obama’s “above my pay grade” remark is Obama’s Mondale moment?
As in the notable quotable which will sink him in the general like Mondale’s “I will raise your taxes” line.
BKennedy on August 18, 2008 at 2:45 PM
LETS’S GIVE IT UP FOR RUSH!!!
myamphibian on August 18, 2008 at 2:47 PM
He’s like a gift from the world to us, in so many (bleep)-ing ways.
whitetop on August 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM
That Obama is a prolific liar is not a surprise. That he is unashamedly so still shocks me. Allow my cursory layman analysis of why he believes he will get away with it: 1-most educated conservatives know he is a liar and would never vote for him anyway; 2-most educated liberals know he is a liar and will vote for him, regardless; 3-uneducated liberals and conservatives will not find out what a liar he is because the media is in the tank; he is trying to pull off a bit of bamboozling himself. Check out Moran’s article about it: http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2008/08/18/born-to-lie/#comments
lionheart on August 18, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Gee, if his paygrade goes down the higher up he goes in politics I worry about the future of his and Michelle’s children. Maybe we should make him dog catcher to ensure the children have enough money.
rbj on August 18, 2008 at 2:50 PM
More like his Dukakis moment.
highhopes on August 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Great work Ed. Your mention on Rush’s show was wonderful. I love HA to keep us up to date on issues.
L
letget on August 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Again, this guy is a trained attorney.
Attorneys are trained to win arguments, not to tell the truth. The truth is whatever they say it is.
You want a politician to tell the truth, then don’t vote for him if he’s a lawyer. You’ll never get a straight word out of him.
NoDonkey on August 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
Evil? Seriously?
Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Jeffrey Dahmer – these are men I would describe as pure evil.
Barack “Junior Senator From Illinois” Obama? Uh … You can call him a lot of things, I don’t think “pure evil” is accurate.
apollyonbob on August 18, 2008 at 2:51 PM
I saw Bam Bams response to this on the news and all I could think was, Wow, you just successfully said nothing.
Way to go champ.
Geronimo on August 18, 2008 at 2:53 PM
Anyone whose moral compass is this far off cannot be trusted to make any important judgment.
It’s one of 2 things:
1. He really does believe that babies born alive with the same chance to live as a baby born prematurely do not have the same right to medical treatment based SOLELY on the facts that one came early naturally and the other cam early because the mother and doctor were trying to kill it.
or
2. He is so politically for sale that he would allow a living human being to be put in a soiled dirty laundry closet in exchange for votes.
There is no other option…either he believes it’s ok to let them die, or he doesn’t yet allows it for political gain.
Everything for him is an esoteric, intellectual exercise…especially the least among us. Maybe he should go read Matthew again. Unfortunately, though, I doubt he’ll ever understand it.
JustTruth101 on August 18, 2008 at 2:55 PM
when will Obama say: “This is not the Barack I thought I knew.”
thankful on August 18, 2008 at 2:56 PM
.
And what has you convinced he ever read it the first time?
News2Use on August 18, 2008 at 2:58 PM
Thats not the newborn baby that I know…
Moral relativism begats morphing rationalism.
singlemalt_18 on August 18, 2008 at 2:59 PM
The question specifically asked for “his view” on this issue, not one that relates to his “pay grade.” The fact that he can’t separate his personal views on this from his politics shows that he is far from being a man of faith as he claims.
Rick on August 18, 2008 at 3:00 PM
Hmmm. Sen. Obama’s past and present statements on abortion seem to be really at odds. This is disturbing. I’m personally pro-choice, but I really distrust candidates that try to weasel their way around controversial issues. If he wasn’t willing to stand by his previous position concerning rights starting at the point of viability, then he should have come up with a better answer than “above my pay grade”. The more I see of Sen. Obama, the more worried I become that this obviously inexperienced candidate could be elected. It doesn’t reassure me that he appears to have told a series of lies about his positions on legislation concerning very late term abortions and handling of infants that survive extraction.
Jill1066 on August 18, 2008 at 3:00 PM
BO keeps forgetting that words are forever and do matter.
nice get, ed.
it’s getting fun watching BHO stumble all over his words (archived and new).
jimmer on August 18, 2008 at 3:01 PM
Wow, this very definitely doesn’t help Michelle’s children, fetuses, etc.
hoosiermama on August 18, 2008 at 3:04 PM
“What? This type of response always worked in the inner-city Chicago neighborhood where I started my political career”.
Next up: Baracky throws himself under the bus.
Bishop on August 18, 2008 at 3:07 PM
I don’t even understand what he means by “above his paygrade.” Even the poorest person financially has opinions on war, peace, taxes, abortion, ethics, etc. Is he insinuating that unless you make X amount of money, your opinion doesn’t actually count in certain circumstances?
Oh, and I have plenty, plenty, plenty of opinions on things that are “above my paygrade”. Certainly doesn’t stop me from having them.
mjk on August 18, 2008 at 3:08 PM
mjk on August 18, 2008 at 3:08 PM
By “above my paygrade” he meant the supreme court justices he would appoint.
Bishop on August 18, 2008 at 3:14 PM
“I don’t even understand what he means by “above his paygrade.”
He probably doesn’t either.
I mean with all of the kickbacks and shady loans in his bank accounts, his puny little Senate paycheck must just get lost in there.
By the way, what exactly does this guy do to earn a salary from the Senate? He’d have a hard time finding his office if he ever decided to go back to the Rayburn building.
NoDonkey on August 18, 2008 at 3:16 PM
It’s an expression that a Major might use to say that this was a question for the general. For the officers and enlisted in the military, each increase in rank indicates a higher pay grade, more money. But also, more responsibility and job requirements.
Or the junior senator might say as a way of indicating that the senior senator, or majority leader might answer.
It seemed to me that he used this phrase because he heard it from someone else. Such as, when in Iraq, he could have asked a captain what he thought of some military matter, and the polite answer was ‘I’m sorry, that question is above my pay grade. You need to ask the General. Or the Chief of Staff. Or the Secretary of State.’ And of course, he’s running for president of the United States. If by ‘Above my pay grade’ is mean to say ‘I can’t answer that, it’s a question for God.’ then it’s also a duck, since the president will be asked life and death questions while in office. We need to know where they stand, of how they think. With Obama’s ‘pay grade’ answer. We now know a little more.
Hope this helps.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 3:17 PM
Worrisome at best if a President were to use the term “above my paygrade.” In Obama’s case it would probably mean that he needed to get permission from the UN.
highhopes on August 18, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Just making it up as he goes along.
Cicero43 on August 18, 2008 at 2:32 PM
like any jazz musician…. oops is that racist?
max1 on August 18, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Thank you, Bishop, NoDonkey, and wise_man!!!! I knew someone on this site could clue me into what that meant. I had a bit of an idea as to what it meant, but I still wasn’t all that positive that I was picking up what was being laid down!!!
Y’all so smart!!! :)
mjk on August 18, 2008 at 3:22 PM
If you listened to Rush this afternoon he devastated Our Great And Glorious Leader (May He Live Forever)! All conservatives should now get on Rush’s coat tails and ride this to victory!!!
sabbott on August 18, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Alrighty, let’s try this:
Obama is an evil alloy. Ductile, flexible, and shiny.
“Obamamanium”
BobMbx on August 18, 2008 at 3:24 PM
What’s wrong with a civil rights lawyer saying that he believes life begins at conception but that the life and privacy of the mother are superior rights to the rights of the unborn child – i.e. that life may begin at conception but civil rights begin at the point of natural birth? I would have had a ton more respect for Obama if he had said that. Even his 2001 explanation seems wrong and inconsistent from a legal persepctive. It is not necessarily murder to abort a fetus even if it is legally and morally a “life,” if you believe in the doctrine of the superior rights of the mother. Pro-choice people must be pretty depressed that Obama could not come up with a more defensible pro-choice answer to Pastor Warren’s question.
The other constitutionally consistent argument for choice is that the definition of when life begins is a religious one, and thus the government cannot impose a religious belief on the people under the First Amendment. If you do not believe in God or even if you do, but you do not believe a fetus is human until it has a soul and that does not occur until birth, I do not have the right to tell you that you have to carry that fetus to term if you do not want it, just because my religious belief holds that it is a human life at the moment of conception. Back when I was more of a feminist, this is what I believed.
Obama knew this question was going to be asked and he had a lot of time to think about an answer. His inexperience and hubris show in his attempt to dodge the question and basically punt it to get to the answer he thought would score him more points from the audience.
FAIL.
rockmom on August 18, 2008 at 3:25 PM
Class act all the way!
Grafted on August 18, 2008 at 3:27 PM
Sorry but it isn’t time to start riding. The VP nomination is going to be critical and if it is somebody just like McCain, those coattails will be mighty short. Conversely, if he selects somebody that appeals to social conservatives and evangelicals he might have a chance.
The reason why this is so critical is that McCain is ancient and even if he doesn’t opt out after one term, his VP needs to be absolutely qualified to take over in an emergency. All the hype about unknown Congressmen and Governors isn’t the kind of leader that reassures one of solid uninterrupted leadership. Palin or Jindal are no better than Obama when it comes to the experience question.
highhopes on August 18, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Wow. That would have been a much better way to respond. Even if you disagree with that reply that you put together, it’s harder to counter than his ‘above my pay grade’ reply.
And Obama has a lot of experience of dodging the question, and dodging the vote. Especially when he was in the illinois senate. That is one of his qualifications that he is ‘good at.’ And now, running for president, this well honed ability of his is totally useless.
wise_man on August 18, 2008 at 3:36 PM
Unlike, of course, the religious belief that “Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor”. We’ve changed the name to “lying under oath”, or “perjury”, or “making a false statement” and on and on….. Your logic seems to suggest that lying should not be punished (nor prohibited) simply because it’s a religious tenent. BTW, is there a religion that condones lying…..?
If determining when life begins is a religious question, does that also extend to the definition of when death begins, since “living” must by default be defined in religious terms. Is the body merely a biological transport vessel for a soul (the real person)?
How does this relate to a death penalty? If the state gives itself the power to take a life, can it not give itself the power to prevent the taking of a life?
Does a fetus have a soul? Does a freshly executed mass murderer have a soul?
Maybe we should allow the debate to consider alternate definitions, such as the difference between the biological transport vehicle and the soul. Then both sides of the argument can have their cake and eat it to. All that has to be done is to find a way to kill the soul without damaging the vehicle. Choice and life.
Oh wait….we’ve already invented that procedure….it’s called socialism.
BobMbx on August 18, 2008 at 3:45 PM
The only problem I see with your proposed answer is that it comes off sounding lawyerly or clinical. Michael Dukakis gave a sound, honest, and consistent (with his record)answer to the question about his view of the death penalty if it had been his spouse who was murdered instead of a hypothetical victim. Unfortunately it made him seem extremely cold and unemotional as well.
Likewise, Obama would seem a bit too much like a lawyer when he starts differentiating between the moment that civil rights begin and “superior and inferior” rights of the individuals involved. The abortion question is an obvious one in front of a crowd of Christians. I can’t believe he wasn’t better prepared to answer it.
highhopes on August 18, 2008 at 3:53 PM
Like a computer, a cold, pure logic machine without a soul. Maybe we should ban emotion and be more like Vulcans. I bet abortion isn’t an issue for them.
And, as he learned, it was the wrong answer.
And you’re right, Christians do not engage in the argument about where human rights (keep civil rights limited to the racebaiting blogs) begin. It’s the murdering progressives who set up that strawman and continue to argue about it, hoping to find that magical milestone between conception and birth that will convince pro-lifers of the benefits of killing babies.
BobMbx on August 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM
What are the chances that O’bumbler just meant that he endorses federalism?
/rhetorical, but I wouldn’t put it past this dunce to use it as an excuse when reminded of the 2001 quote.
RW_theoriginal on August 18, 2008 at 4:39 PM
Ed–Illinois already had a law in place from 1975 that required life supporting treatment in this situation.
What Obama is saying is that the U.S. Constitution and U.S. Supreme Court decisions don’t define a pre-viable fetus as a person and, since the new Illinois statute wasn’t limited to viable fetuses, the law wouldn’t pass U.S. Constitutional muster. You could have a heart beat after six or seven weeks.
“As used in this Section, the term “born alive”, with
respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of that member, AT ANY STAGE OF ITS DEVELOPMENT, who after that expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.
jim m on August 18, 2008 at 4:57 PM
That’s not the Barack Obama I knew.
drjohn on August 18, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Obama changed his answer attempting to evade what he thinks, which is what he said in 2001. IMO, his point of view has not changed on this issue or many others where he appears to be backtracking from his past.
He has decades of friendships, mentoring, votes and evasions invested in that past, and his current fluidity does not reflect change, it reflects fear that if he says what he means and feels he is not going to win the big prize…and really have a chance, with his fellow travelers, to show us what Marxist socialism is all about.
Barry is a little man, he cannot process information that does not fit his playbook of the world and how it works. He is fine within the bubble of Hyde Park and similar pockets of angry socialists who feel passed over by the free market, because they have nothing to offer that market and would be lost but for inheritances and government jobs. I paint too broadly here, but Bill Ayers knows what I mean.
Very much is past Barry’s pay grade, but self-esteem won’t allow him to admit it and evolve. Scary to think everything you have lived and breathed for so long is a hoax, and he ain’t brave enough. What George McGovern wrote about the Employee Free Choice Act will never come from Barry.
Harry Schell on August 18, 2008 at 5:13 PM
The Obama shall decide who lives, who dies. So it is written, so it be done.
ThePrez on August 18, 2008 at 5:48 PM
Why is it that the pro-murder party thinks that if they are serious and grave enough, the problems of abortion go away?
Mommynator on August 18, 2008 at 6:00 PM
dee-dee-dee /Mencia
Black Adam on August 18, 2008 at 6:10 PM
Okay, so he’s a lawyer, and a creepy one at that.
But has no one noticed that he never even tried to answer the question? It was a legal question he was asked, referring to the legal rights and personhood. But his response began by stipulating that he was commenting on the religious and scientific aspects of when life begins. When life begins is an entirely different question; there is no doubt that the newly-implanted zygote is alive, the question is: ‘Is it a person with legal rights?’
Oddly, the determination of personhood and is the very question that as a Constitutional law professor he should have been able to answer better than anyone else. What is more, this determination and all the twists and turns of the surrounding issues are questions that he has considered at length and has employed when voting or not voting for abortion and infanticide bills.
And every lawyer knows that at some point a fetus becomes a person apart from any religious or scientific sentiment.
It is within his pay grade. And he knows the answer. But the question he ‘humbly’ declined to answer was not the one he was asked. Lawyerly, certainly. New politics? No. It’s the old switch and shuffle done very well.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM
This isn’t the first time Barry’s been stumped by a question he should have had a ready thoughtful answer for.
My take is simple: The guy’s so sure of his mental agileness and has been fawned over for his “brilliance” for so long that he’s never learned how to–doesn’t know how to, and hates to–study.
Simple as that.
Typhoon on August 18, 2008 at 6:26 PM
Establishing Rules for Personhood Will Help Solve the Abortion Debate Once and For All
For far too long I have watched in horror as all of these non-persons have thrust their demands for personhood on us. No more. I have therefore created some clearly established rules for determining when a lump of cells becomes a viable human bing. I think we all can agree that a baby does NOT become a person unless it can survive outside the womb without medical assistance. But there are other important considerations…
Mormon Doc on August 18, 2008 at 7:30 PM
Marxism? liberalism? Clintonism?
electric-rascal on August 18, 2008 at 7:48 PM
Nice try, bub – your’re hoisted by your own petard: Look up the definition of “baby” and get back to us.
Additional: In many states, if a murderer kills both the mother and the unborn child, there are 2 murder counts brought against them… so the baby in the womb more than just a “mass of fetal tissue”.
electric-rascal on August 18, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Oh… you’ve basically just defined some elderly humans as non-persons as well.
electric-rascal on August 18, 2008 at 7:56 PM
electric-rascal on August 18, 2008 at 7:56 PM
Easy there tuff guy. You need to read the link before you jump into the fray.
Mormon Doc on August 18, 2008 at 8:14 PM
BO says that women struggle with Abortion, consult with pastors, doctors, family……….
HMMM…..what about underage girls…I thought they could have abortions without even consulting their parents????
Dpet on August 18, 2008 at 9:08 PM
So all premie births should not get medical attention? What if your wife were pregnant and didn’t go full term, but was 4 weeks early with a premie. Would you just let that premie die and not give it medical assistance? Because that is what you are saying – it is not a person until it “can survive outside the womb without medical assistance…”
Neocon Peg on August 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Morman Guy, we basically know you for what you are. You are for the murduring, torturing of human beings – babies not yet born who have no say in their demise and babies that are born alive outside the womb who have no say in their demise. You, sir, are no Morman, you do not value human life.
Neocon Peg on August 18, 2008 at 11:45 PM
Why do we have to fight so hard to keep this ship aright? Why is it so easy for our people to get blinded by hype and imagery? Because this country is sliding into a values and faith vacuum, as the Bible has been in a virtual media bonfire for 50 years. So, this is what you end up with– spiritually handicapped, diseased humans that can’t see their hands in front of their faces.
Just watch the implosion of England, and you can see where we’ll end up… if we follow their agnostic lead.
leftnomore on August 19, 2008 at 2:04 AM