Blogging the Qur’an: Sura 39, “Throngs”
posted at 7:50 am on August 17, 2008 by Robert Spencer
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According to Muhammad’s favorite wife, Aisha, “The Messenger of Allah used to fast until we would say, ‘He does not want to break fast,’ and he would not fast until we would say, ‘He does not want to fast.’ And he used to recite Bani Isra’il [Al-Isra’] and Az-Zumar every night” – that is, suras 17 and 39.
Sura 39 once again emphasizes the evil of worshipping others alongside Allah, and castigates the unbelievers for doing so. It takes its title from verses 71 and 73 — the “throngs” in question are the unbelievers crowding into hell and the believers crowding into Paradise. The recurring theme of this sura is that those whom the unbelievers worship are worthless – they can’t help those who pray to them, and in the end those who relied on them will regret it. This is a Meccan sura that was revealed fairly early in Muhammad’s career. According to the Ruhul Ma’ani, it was revealed around the time that a group of Muslims left Arabia and sought refuge in Abyssinia, to escape persecution from the pagan Quraysh tribe.
Verses 1-29 repeat many familiar themes. Allah repeats that he revealed the Qur’an (vv. 1-2). Then he dismisses the core assumption involved in the intercession of the saints – that they bring one closer to God (v. 3) — with greater precision and accuracy than he demonstrated in his dismissal of the idea of the Trinity (5:116). If Allah wanted a son, he could have chosen one from those he created, but he is above that (v. 4). The workings of the natural world show his presence and power (vv. 5-6, 21). Allah does not need human beings, but he dislikes ingratitude (v. 7). When men are in trouble they pray, but in good times they forget him and worship others along with him – such people are headed for hell (v. 8).
The believer and the unbeliever are not equal (vv. 9, 22, 24). This oft-repeated notion has many implications; the emphasis in this sura is on the fact that they will not receive equal treatment on the Day of Judgment. At the same time, however, the absolute way in which the statement is made underscores the idea that the Muslims are the “best of people” (3:110) and the unbelievers are the “vilest of created beings” (98:6). There is no compatibility of this with the idea of the equality of dignity of all people as created by the same God. Instead, there is a sharp dichotomy between believer and unbeliever that runs through all of Islam – including its laws for the governance of states. In light of this, it should come as no surprise to anyone that there is not a single Muslim-majority state in the world today, even though Islamic law is not fully enforced in almost all of them, where non-Muslims enjoy absolute legal equality with Muslims. Even in secular Turkey there are restrictions on conversion from Islam to another religion, and immense amounts of red tape involved in trying to get official permission to build a church. This is no accident: it is a cultural hangover of the deeply ingrained traditional idea that non-Muslims in a state that Muslims control should “feel themselves subdued” (9:29), in accordance with the dictum that they are not equal to the believers, and should be made in every possible way to remember their perversity in rejecting Islam.
Allah tells Muhammad a series of things he should say to the unbelievers, emphasizing that he is simply Allah’s messenger and would face his wrath as they will if he disobeyed him (v. 13). Allah tells Muhammad to say, “And I am commanded to be the first of those who are Muslims” (v. 12) – which would seem to contradict the Qur’an’s (chronologically) later claim that Abraham was a Muslim (3:67), as were the other prophets. However, Islamic exegetes smooth over the contradiction by saying that this refers to Muhammad’s community specifically, not to the earlier communities of believers. “The Ummah [community] of the Holy Prophet,” explains Maulana Bulandshahri, “is the last Ummah to appear on earth. The first believer of this Ummah was none other than the Holy Prophet himself.”
Then Allah contrasts the fates of the believers (Paradise) and the unbelievers (Hell) (vv. 16-20). He says that the Qur’an is “the most beautiful Message in the form of a Book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects)” (v. 23). Mujahid explained: “This means that the entire Qur’an’s parts resemble each other and are oft-repeated” – and of course, truer words were never spoken. The Qur’an contains numerous parables, by way of warning (v. 27). It is in Arabic, with no crookedness (v. 28) – that is, says the Tafsir al-Jalalayn, no “contradiction or variance.”
Verses 30-52 again warns about the Day of Judgment. The unbelievers threaten Muhammad with punishment by their false idols – and here again Allah repeats that “he whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no guide” (v. 36). The unbelievers are perverse and self-contradictory, acknowledging that Allah created all things but still calling on their false gods (v. 38). There is an odd statement in v. 42: “those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.” Qur’an translator Abdullah Yusuf Ali explains this by asserting that sleep is a little death: “Sleep being twin-brother to Death, our souls are for the time being released from the bondage of the flesh. Allah takes them for the time being. If, as some do, we are to die peacefully in sleep, our soul does not come back to the physical body, and the later decays and dies. If we still have some period of life to fulfill according to Allah’s decree, our soul comes back to the body, and we resume our function in this life.”
The idea that anyone can intercede for anyone else before Allah is again rejected (vv. 43-44) and the perversity of the unbelievers again emphasized: when they hear of Allah, their hearts are “filled with disgust and horror,” but they hear about their idols with joy (v. 45). On the Day of Judgment the evil deeds of the unbelievers will overtake them (v. 51).
In verses 53-60 Allah again tells Muhammad a series of warnings to say to the unbelievers, telling them to turn to Allah before it’s too late. Then verses 61-75 conclude the sura with more warnings of the Day of Judgment, when “the unbelievers will enter Hell in throngs,” and will again be reminded of the messengers they did not heed (v. 71), while the believers enter Paradise in throngs (v. 73) — the final outcome of their inequality.
Next week: Sura 40, “The Believer”: the first of seven suras known as “The Family of Ha Mim.” Said Ibn Mas’ud: “When I reach the family of Ha Mim, it is like reaching a beautiful garden, so I take my time.”
(Here you can find links to all the earlier “Blogging the Qur’an” segments. Here is a good Arabic Qur’an, with English translations available; here are two popular Muslim translations, those of Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, along with a third by M. H. Shakir. Here is another popular translation, that of Muhammad Asad. And here is an omnibus of ten Qur’an translations.)
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Man, these “Blogging the Qur’an” things are getting really old. Why do you guys even keep doing this? What’s the point?
SoulGlo on August 17, 2008 at 8:48 AM
SoulGlo:
The point is to understand the motivations and goals of the forces that have vowed to destroy American society.
I plan to stop after completing Sura 114, the last chapter of the Qur’an. That is a lot sooner than it may appear, because the chapters start getting a lot shorter soon, and I will knock off more than one a week.
Or I will stop when Michelle Malkin asks me to stop, and I’ll strongly consider doing so if I’m voted off the island in the comments field here. I will be out much of today but will be interested tonight to read what people say in favor of or possibly against your sentiments here.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:00 AM
Or I will stop.
Robert Spencer on Aug 17,2008 at 9:00AM.
Robert Spencer:I would like you to stay!
Theres always going to be
someone,who wants to start
a mutiny,on the U.S.S Hot Air!:)
canopfor on August 17, 2008 at 9:07 AM
Because understanding is better than ignorance.
TABoLK on August 17, 2008 at 9:10 AM
Why do this? Because it’s a useful practice, to better know your enemy. This feature is quite popular here, including with me. As with the boob tube, if you don’t care for it, no one is twisting your arm to read it.
Thank you, Robert, for your continued study and information.
bikermailman on August 17, 2008 at 9:23 AM
I vote you stay, ignore SoulGlo. Has he ever even posted on this thread before?
Why do you think Michelle wants you to quit? You have mentioned that before.
Sura 114 or Bust!
dentalque on August 17, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Ignorance is bliss huh SoulGlo?
TheBigOldDog on August 17, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Ah! Ever the Clever. Encouragement of ignorance is a great trait, pat yourself on the back.
For myself, however, Thanks Mr. Spencer, you are doing a great and worthwhile job!
There is not a single good reason for cessation (except your own personal ones). These are informative, but not inflammatory; honest and important. Like most important things, the full value or the full penetration of the work it isn’t even known at the time.
Spirit of 1776 on August 17, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Heh. I misread the quote. I thought it said: “The Unbelievers will be led to Hell in thongs.”
Blake on August 17, 2008 at 10:19 AM
Given the DoD has already penciled this war in for decades, or longer, the least we can do is try to understand the motivations for the nearly 1,400 year slow strangulation of the planet and its great civilizations. Unfortunately for the obscurantists amongst us, after you finish the Quran it would behoove us and our children to then discover the relevant ahadith, with emphasis on the life of Mohammed creating the Sunnah.
Having mostly finished my own study of Islam to understand its power and nature, I’ve concluded it’s a psychologically-manipulative counter to the other two major monotheisms in which the ends (power of Islam) almost always justifies the means (unless specifically haram). Even then, temporary violations of sharia are tolerated for the greater ‘good’ of making Islam more powerful. In Islam human life has no intrinsic value unrelated to advancing the power of, or enforcing the rules of, Islam.
Moving up a spectrum of violence from peaceful Meccan da’wa to Medinan booty-seizing sex-enslaving warfare with the ultimate goals for both of global theocracy and sharia confuses non-Muslims long enough to ensure victory in nearly every case. That CAIR and the MSA are on the same page (or at least different pages of the same playbook, the Quran) with al Qaeda is a very effective one-two punch which has the end results of causing legions of non-Muslims to fall into deep denail, surrender, or carry out the work of spreading Islam for their new masters. George Bush’s first acts after 9/11 amounted to da’wa, and he’s subsequently only rarely dared to speak ill of anything Islamic. He’s hardly alone, and not even close to the most egregious example.
Historical trends trend suggest it only gets worse as Islamic numbers increase. We’re on a slow boat to Iranianization and Saudification. However, unlike the claims of the proponents of the religion of submission, it doesn’t end in peace but long-lived civil war, ecomomic sluggishness, and permanent subjugation. Mohammed’s mere claim he came not for farming but for warfare has caused countless deaths due to jihad and a lack of emphasis on basic food production. That’s just one leaf in a forest of luddite Islamic trees.
But don’t listen to me. I’m sure secret ‘revert’ Grover Norquist has some nice ad hominem arguments to make you go back to sleep.
Beagle on August 17, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Amen!
I don’t comment every week, but I read this post every week.
Thank you, Robert. Keep up the good work!
Under the bus for you, SoulGlo.
locomotivebreath1901 on August 17, 2008 at 10:35 AM
I vote for you to stay on the island.
SoulGlo can go.
AZCoyote on August 17, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Continue until you finish. Soulglo can read something else, which he will complain about as well. That is a vote to stay on the island.
koolbrease on August 17, 2008 at 11:05 AM
SoulGlo
Blessed are the willfully ignorant for they shall be consumed first.
Your not alone SoulGlo, your leaders and government agree with you about taking the heat off the great religion of peace. Perhaps you will live long enough to hear your grandsons memorize what you once thought was “really old”.
Islam has the upper hand. And as things are they have a protected road ahead. While the west is sent off to the toilets of the Ummah to squander resources and resolve on newly created Sharia states, the real work of Islam continues in the subversion and infiltration of our societies. While all eyes are on the surge in the endless game of whack-a-mole, the real work of Islam (shutting down talk and earning drops of submission by coercion and repetitive whining) carries on apace.
SoulGlo is a mujahadine of a sort on his/her own right.
As Robert alluded to last week, he can see the way the wind is blowing and coddling/appeasing Islam is the future for the unaware masses.
BL@KBIRD on August 17, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. SoulGlo mentioned his. I think that this is a valuable addition to the site and to the discussion. After Sura 114, I would like to see this theme on understanding islam continued in another direction. Or from another angle.
wise_man on August 17, 2008 at 11:37 AM
It should never be forgotten that Islam is a political system as well as a religion. We in the West recoil from the idea of suppressing someone’s freedom to practice their religion, but given the violence and everlasting discrimination advocated in the pages of its book, we must always be on the lookout for the narrow end of the wedge. Yield to the gentle taps of the wedge because we pride ourselves on our tolerance, and we will someday learn the true meaning of intolerance.
RushBaby on August 17, 2008 at 11:50 AM
I think that this, this series of blogging the Qur’an is a valuable addition. (after I read my comment, I could see someone might think that I was talking about SoulGlo)
wise_man on August 17, 2008 at 11:57 AM
I read these every week. Don’t have much of anything to say on the subject, but it’s good reading and very useful information. Many people, Muslim and otherwise, like to groups religions together and claim they are all basically the same. Not so true, is it?
MamaAJ on August 17, 2008 at 12:04 PM
It’s not an uncommon theme in major religious philosophies.
The big question for the believer is, what do you do with that knowledge?
Islam has made it very plain that it is extremely unforgiving in this regard:
R.S. summed it up with
I’ll take the ‘baby-in-a-manger’ cult and it’s egalitarian world view influence, any day.
Thank you, R.S., for another good lesson.
locomotivebreath1901 on August 17, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Robert, A few questions:
1) Do non-muslims have to pay the jizya in Turkey?
2) Are there different punishments for unbelievers of different religions? Ie. Jews, Christians, and Pagans just paying the jizya if they will not convert opposed to Hindus which the only choice is conversion or death?
nazo311 on August 17, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Stay Robert. I might read these one day they look interesting.
kanda on August 17, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Dear Mr. Spencer,
1. I hope, and have no doubt, that Michelle M. will not ask you to stop until this work has seen its final chapter covered. She is way too insightful and knowledgeable about our pivotal time in history to decide otherwise.
2. No matter what a few HA knuckleheaded commenters write (I almost wrote “think” but that would have been an oxymoron) about the topic, please ignore them all because they don’t know, or play ostrich with our time. They’ll be the first casualties.
Note to the gripers - go away and play freely, while you still can.
3. I have not read the Qur’an, yet, and don’t plan to do so soon, as my list of universal literature and philosophy is long and I only have one lifetime to go through it. I hope to make it to at least the 20th century by the time I die.
4. Therefore, even though I mostly just read the “Blogging the Qur’an” threads, I have learned so much from these and other writings of your Herculean effort to enlighten us on a sensitive and necessary topic.
5. Not only do I admire you for the huge effort, the research you put into it, your insights, comparables and contrasts, but especially I’m in awe at your courage to do so, when most others, who should, are hiding and hoping the threat just disappears.
Therefore, please, dear Sir, do not listen to the voices of ignorance, but rather to your inner voice, which I know tells you to do that which is right, and so necessary.
Thank you for all you’ve done, and continue to do. Sincerely, and with gratitude,
Entelechy on August 17, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Another vote in that direction.
Although I do find that when Robert writes the word “throng”, I tend to see the word “thong”, which makes for some interesting mental imagery at times.
Purple Fury on August 17, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Can you elaborate on this a little bit?
Does this mean that every time a Muslim sleeps, Allah takes his soul? If that person wakes up, it means Allah returned it? If they don’t wake up it means Allah kept it?
I’m asking because I read a couple of Q&A sites. You know, Ask the Iman type stuff. Most of the questions were mundane questions about this holiday or that holiday. But there were some about death along the lines of “if a Muslim dies from the Flu…” type scenarios. I never read one about a Muslim dying in his sleep but I came away with the impression that that would be covered too. Yup, pretty much no way a Muslim can die and not go to Paradise.
On a sort of related note: why do Muslims have to bury their dead so fast? It’s something like 24 or 48 hours? Is that an old public health thing they just keep practicing or is there some religious reason for why they still adhere to it?
Jaynie59 on August 17, 2008 at 1:21 PM
I vote stay too.
CrimsonFisted on August 17, 2008 at 1:47 PM
I also read every week but seldom comment. I look forward to this series and hope you will continue.
Cowboy is a compliment on August 17, 2008 at 2:18 PM
What a remarkably rude and impertinent comment. Combine ignorance with ingratitude and you get SoulGlo. If you can’t appreciate the hard work Doctor Spencer is doing for us each week and the risky front line battle he is fighting against those who seek our destruction, then just stay on some mindless website where your small mind will not be offended by any attempt to enlighten you. You are utterly disrespectful and a disgrace to this forum. You deserve to be banned for that comment, what an inept idiot you are!! Anybody that doesn’t understand what a unique privilege it is to inquire of Dr. Spencer directly doesn’t deserve to be here.
Maxx on August 17, 2008 at 2:18 PM
No banning for this reason. The terrorists would then have won. This part of your comment, Maxx, was not enlightening at all.
Entelechy on August 17, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Plus, Maxx, this is a repeat on your part - who appointed you the HA Banmeister?
Entelechy on August 17, 2008 at 2:22 PM
That’s just my opinion Entelechy, I have no power to ban anyone, I’m just a commenter and that was my comment. If I was the Banmeister, SoulGlo would be banned.
Maxx on August 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM
Kamal Ata Turk & Islam Part 147 A Kamal Ata Turk created a modern SECULAR Turkey. The ISLAMISTS are trying to turn the clock back to the 7th century Arabia
Kamal Ata Turk & Islam Part 147 B
TheBigOldDog on August 17, 2008 at 3:14 PM
A sharp contrast to the mindset of the Christian, summed up by the apostle Paul:
“Christ died to save sinners, of whom I am the chief.”
Christians believe that though we are no better than anyone else, God has had great mercy on us to forgive our many sins.
jgapinoy on August 17, 2008 at 6:08 PM
Maybe Soulglo thought it said that the unbelievers would be led to hell in thongs.
[big wedgie for you, Soulglo]
elvis on August 17, 2008 at 6:12 PM
Is Allah supposedly sending the souls back to the body, of those who awake…for any other reason than he’s not ready for them?
JetBoy on August 17, 2008 at 6:18 PM
I vote stay too. I don’t comment very much on these posts, but you better believe I read every single one of them. And learn something every time!!!!
mjk on August 17, 2008 at 6:28 PM
I believe the first time you mentioned possibly stopping this great and educational series, there were over 80 comments from different people asking you to continue. And Michelle certainly wants you to. Don’t let the SoulGlo’s of HotAir get to ya.
So many of us have learned so much from this series. It’s a great addition to the blog. Sunday mornings won’t be the same when you’re finished.
JetBoy on August 17, 2008 at 7:45 PM
Dr. Spencer,
Please ignore the ingrate who managed to get in the first comment. My wife and I greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge on Islam that you bring to your HotAir posts. I have tried myself to trudge through the Koran, but just couldn’t get through it. Having you summarize it for us is as close as I (and I am sure many others) will come to becoming familiar with what it teaches, and what drives the radicals we are fighting.
Please keep up the good work.
stefanite on August 17, 2008 at 8:50 PM
If that is what you do, I thank you. It sounds like some of my tax money is well spent. I have also enjoyed reading your posts here weekly.
dentalque on August 17, 2008 at 8:54 PM
dentalque:
No, no, no. I didn’t mean that. I mean that in the event that she asked me to stop, I would honor her request. I have no indication that that is the case. I just meant that I plan to finish this thing, unless she asks me to stop before that point.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:33 PM
Spirit of 1776:
That is another story altogether, but I plan to finish this series.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:34 PM
Blake:
Ain’t no doubt about this, my friend: if it really did say that, then the Qur’an would not be — in the view of many Westerners ably articulated by John Derbyshire — as “wrist-slittingly boring” as it is.
Me, I don’t think it is boring at all, but I know why others think so. And I think the mind-numbing repetitiveness of certain portions of it is instructive and illuminating in its own way.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Beagle:
But it’s ok, my good man. You see, he wants to cut our taxes.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:37 PM
Beagle:
Now there is a thought-provoking assertion if I ever heard one.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:38 PM
koolbrease:
Thanks. It did occur to me this morning to tell him that reading this thing is not compulsory.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:39 PM
BL@KBIRD
Indeed. I see former friends going wobbly all over the place — people I never expected to do so. I feel as if I am trapped in Ionesco’s “Rhinoceros.”
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:41 PM
wise_man:
I may wrap up with one or two summary and concluding posts, but then it will be over.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:42 PM
MamaAJ:
Indeed not. But it is as common as the air we breathe. I have heard the confident assertion that “Fundamentalism of any kind is the core problem” enough for twelve lifetimes. As it Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham were cutting off heads and flying planes into buildings.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM
MamaAJ:
In fact, I wrote a book about that issue last year, but it turned out to be largely a stealth publication. Still, I tend to think it wasn’t that bad a book, if I do say so myself.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:46 PM
nazo311:
No. Turkey is a secular state that ostensibly does not discriminate against non-Muslims. However, they are subject to various nettlesome restrictions and harassment. The Turkish Government is engaged in a long-term effort to strangle and destroy the Patriarchate of Constantinople, the seat of Orthodox Christianity. The Patriarch must be a Turkish national, but they closed the only seminary — making the finding of home-grown candidates exceedingly difficult. And Protestant Evanglicals report difficulty in getting permits to build churches, etc.
Yes. The People of the Book — Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians and some others — can become dhimmis, paying protection money to the Islamic state and practicing their religions freely within severe restrictions. Hindus and Buddhists and others who are not People of the Book must convert or die, although dhimmi status was awarded to the Hindus as a practical matter during the time of Islamic rule in India.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:51 PM
kanda:
Heh.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:51 PM
Are Jews considered “people of the book”? I thought that was only Christians…
JetBoy on August 17, 2008 at 9:54 PM
Entelechy:
I’m sorry. I probably should have ignored him in the first place. I opened the question in the first place after I read his message because I’ve seen week by week how few commenters there are on these threads as opposed to other HA threads, and I don’t want to be blind to the possibility that the thing that I’m trying to do here is just boring and useless. But of course, most of those who think that it is will not comment here at all.
And that won’t be for much longer, either, from the looks of things.
Yeah, it’s all over now. We’re back to the Cold War. There won’t be any more Islamic terror attacks, or any stealthy Islamic supremacist efforts. Nothing to be concerned about.
Many thanks. Have you ever wished your inner voice would shut up? I have.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 9:56 PM
Jaynie59:
That does seem to be what Abdullah Yusuf Ali is saying.
There are a few ahadith about how few Muslims will actually be saved.
Yes, and yes. It is a matter of positive command, although the positive command is hard to separate from the rapid decay of dead bodies in the desert heat.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:00 PM
JetBoy:
Well, he could be not ready for them for any number of reasons.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:02 PM
I bet Muhammad thought that once or twice.
(All the more reason not to stop.)
dentalque on August 17, 2008 at 10:02 PM
JetBoy:
Yes, Jews and Christians are the people of the book. That’s how the Koran refers to them, right Robert?
Thank you Robert for responding to all my questions. You always do a great job of answering all the questions in these threads. I look forward to next week’s post.
One more question Robert…
Are there elements in Turkey that want to impose Sharia law? How big is this movement? Is this a big problem for us in the west as Turkey is an ally of the United States?
nazo311 on August 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM
JetBoy:
Oh yes. In fact, the Jews are the quintessential “People of the Book,” whose rejection of Muhammad is so outrageous and lands them Allah’s curse, because he is prophesied in their book.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:05 PM
nazo311:
Yes.
Very big. It includes the Prime Minister and the ruling party.
Oh yes.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:06 PM
I don’t know how I missed that. I remember you mentioning that Jews were the subject of special disdain amongst Muslims since the beginning, since the most powerful people at the time of Islam’s birth (through Muhammed) were the Jewish leaders of the time.
JetBoy on August 17, 2008 at 10:08 PM
Oh…on another note, I saw something earlier today that said Muslims believe that if one falls asleep while praying, that Satan…how do I put this…will pee in his ear. Don’t know if that’s true or not.
But as this Sura states, when one sleeps, Allah has possession of his soul, so I don’t know how Satan would come into play there.
JetBoy on August 17, 2008 at 10:10 PM
JetBoy:
Well, it is possible that it is one of those things that are so obvious and axiomatic to me that I never realized I should take the time to stop and explain it. But one main verse listing the People of the Book is 2:62, which promises them all — Jews, Christians, Sabeans — Paradise. However, that promise is not quite as expansively ecumenical as some Islamic apologists try to make it appear today, as I explained here.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:11 PM
JetBoy:
Here you go.
That’s a hadith, Bukhari 4.54.492.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:14 PM
Mr. S,
If I may be so bold, I think you have missed the point. Reading the Qur’an is work, there should be fewer posts. It is not as mindless as watching a related youtube link and just reading (and writing) a bunch of dopey posts. This is a post that is more like a class.
Yes there are fewer posts but I have been impressed with the level of knowledge by some of the regular posters. If this was college, you would be getting paid and we would get 4 credits.
Keep up the good work.
Fight the good fight.
dentalque on August 17, 2008 at 10:15 PM
JetBoy:
Oh, and in the immortal words of the Bard:
“Sleep is like a temporary death…” — Bob Dylan, “Workingman’s Blues #2″
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:17 PM
dentalque:
Why it isn’t college, and why you can’t even find a simple introductory class on the Qur’anic text as it is explained by the Hadith and classical tafasir on college campuses today, is a story in itself, and not a short one.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Dr. Spencer -
Please continue. I look forward to our your weekly lessons.
I admit I don’t understand the context of everything here because I missed the early parts, but I’ll catch up eventually.
Thanks for the education.
Dr. Bob on August 17, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Deja vu…I was playing Dylan today during my weekly clean-up of the ol’ house.
One more question if I may tho, as I thought…how would Islam explain dreams then. We have good, and bad, dreams when we sleep. Does the Koran explain this?
JetBoy on August 17, 2008 at 10:25 PM
If you could find such a course, it would probably be stating that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.
nazo311 on August 17, 2008 at 11:00 PM
Robert…
The Cold War seemed to have a lot less lies and obfuscation than this current manifestation of 1400 years of unpleasantness with Islam. It seems that a solution has to have been deemed ‘mission impossible’ by those in authority or they have been duped into believing so. Personally I think Islam has to be made too uncomfortable a straight jacket to be worn any longer.
Any given unbeliever is unsure what to make of anything Islamic. Whether it is good, bad or indifferent. It is never a mistake to condemn anything Islamic as a simple prophylactic against it’s evil. There is no comfort zone when ardent Muslims are living among an uninformed host.
But you could sense the relief in the past week when a real old fashioned enemy seemed to be in need of correction. It was as though murky Islam could be dismissed for more tangible fish.
I think the storm is just beginning. As soon as it seems apparent that some “radical religion hijackers” have access to some Nuke(s), I wonder what their first demands will be, who and what must be delivered up to them?
Boston not being glazed is surely worth giving up free speech over is it not?
BL@KBIRD on August 17, 2008 at 11:09 PM
JetBoy:
Muhammad said: “A good dream that comes true is from Allah, and a bad dream is from Satan, so if anyone of you sees a bad dream, he should seek refuge with Allah from Satan and should spit on the left, for the bad dream will not harm him.”
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 11:14 PM
How old is the newest Hadith? Generally? Are they still be written today?
I read something once that I swear was a Hadith, but I can’t remember where I read it. It specifically mentioned the “Arctic Circle”. It was about Ramadan. It was all about what a Muslim who lived in the Arctic Circle, or any other place in the world that has perpetual dawn and dusk, should do during Ramadan. I remember being surprised that a Hadith would mention the Arctic Circle since America wasn’t discovered until 1492 and I assumed Hadiths were all from around the 7th century.
I might be confusing it with a Q&A answer.
The bottom line, by the way, was “don’t look out the window”.
Jaynie59 on August 17, 2008 at 11:14 PM
nazo311:
Oh yeah. And that anyone who says anything to the contrary is “Islamophobic.”
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Bl@ckbird:
Absolutely. And Diana West absolutely nails the difference here.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 11:16 PM
Jaynie59:
Oh, about 1200-1300 years old.
No. Hadith are traditions of the words and deeds of Muhammad. Many were forged, and there is a whole science in Islam to distinguish the false from the true, but they certainly aren’t being written today.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 11:18 PM
By the way, about college courses on Islam:
I have a friend who took one about 10 years ago and she’s convinced that Islam is a peaceful religion and that it’s a fact that Christianity has killed many more “millions” of people than any other religion.
Hey, she learned it in college! It must true.
I asked her if she read the news on a regular basis and she said it was too depressing and she had better things to do.
Jaynie59 on August 17, 2008 at 11:33 PM
Mr. Spencer thank you for this series, please continue, I read it faithfully, but don’t often comment.
I have a question. Concerning intercession as mentioned in 39:3 39:43 and 39:44, this sounds to me like it is not asking someone to pray for the person, but praying to someone other than Allah. Is this the Islamic perception of these verses? I know Allah has told his followers to pray (he has commanded 5 times a day), however can they pray for other people or is this useless intercession?
talking_mouse on August 17, 2008 at 11:37 PM
talking_mouse:
Yes.
No, it’s very common for Muslims to ask living people to pray for them. In Islam you certainly can and should pray for other people. But one should not ask the dead — i.e., the saints — for prayers.
Robert Spencer on August 17, 2008 at 11:54 PM
I just talk back to it :)
You are such a gentleman, Mr. Spencer. I knew you’d answer every single commenter’s question, concern, statement. It’s in your nature. Glad you do us all a huge service.
On Russia, knowing that you were sarcastic, we’ll fight both wars, the cold one, with hot flairs, and the war on terror in between. In fact, the two could itnertwine. In the last two weeks everything has changed. Putin either miscalculated, or didn’t want Obama to win. His timing is either impeccable, or a huge mistake.
Entelechy on August 18, 2008 at 12:49 AM
Point taken. Regardless, this is tremendous work. And as regards those who blow in the wind, what the people think and what the leaders say are not always in tune. I have faith in American ideals deep in American people, even though leadership is disappointing (repetitively).
Spirit of 1776 on August 18, 2008 at 1:01 AM
Mr. Spencer, one last comment from me:)
I don’t always comment because just taking it in. And I expect for some of us who have some background or study of Islam, this serve as reinforcement of our own views.
But to my point, comparing these threads to comment counts are other threads I don’t think is a good comparison. Other threads are filled with long running inside jokes or new stupid ones, simply friend banter, and even the occasional recipe. Not exactly heavy-weight stuff in other words. Like conversation around the water cooler, quantity doesn’t yield quality necessarily.
Spirit of 1776 on August 18, 2008 at 1:15 AM
Robert,
These threads are educational and the lack of comments in the form of questions implies that the lesson was presented in a clear, concise manner.
I offer my continued gratitude and support for this vital endeavor, and I am far from alone in that regard, I assure you.
awake on August 18, 2008 at 9:57 AM
I read “religiously” (pardon the pun) every week. Oh please do stay.
ncc770 on August 18, 2008 at 2:06 PM
I vote you stay on the island as well!
It takes me a while to get around to reading these posts sometimes….I need it to be quiet. You make me use my brain too hard.
:)
Thank You for what you do here.
bridgetown on August 19, 2008 at 9:03 AM
This Allah fellow sounds confused. ha
If the choice is hell or heaven with Allah and Mohammed.
I’m goin’ straight to hell…on purpose.
bridgetown on August 19, 2008 at 9:11 AM
I vote for you to continue, Robert. These examinations of the Qur’an have been very educational.
irishspy on August 19, 2008 at 6:23 PM