coldwarrior on August 17, 2008 at 8:37 AM

Er …. ummm … let me see …. there’s got to be a reason, if only I could think of one. Nope, cant do it. So, I guess it is unfortunate – for the greenies.

And the problem there is what???

herself on August 17, 2008 at 3:56 AM

Unfortunately, one would have to shoot all the greenies first.

coldwarrior on August 17, 2008 at 1:21 AM

Checkmate.

Question is: what does Iran Do?

Celebrate that they don’t have to worry about Israel with Putin watching their six?

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 9:27 PM

So, Turkey it is, then. Georgia’s position on the Black Sea seems to fit nicely for a second supply line for invasion. If that is the case, Ukraine goes at the same time? Question is: what does Iran Do?

Iran is within weeks of having several kilos of the good stuff. There is little support for Israel taking care of that matter. Even less support for us being involved. Lame duck President. New elections going on in Israel. Musharaf on the way out, and the Paks not knowing which end is up. India balking at the joint Russo-India fifth generation fighter program. Cuba agreeing to forward based Blackjack bombers. Venezuela accepting more Russian military assistance. (They got 10,000 up-dateed Dragunov sniper rifles less than a year ago, among other toys.) NATO meeting coming up in December, to decide about Ukraine, and upgrading Kazahstan’s status may be on the agenda this time. US elections, and Putin’s SVR sending reports based on the MSM back to Centre. Turkey is getting rattled again with internal matters, a bit of the jihad is growing out there in addition to the PKK. America getting hot and bothered about getting troops out of Iraq sooner rather than later. The financial garbage going on here at home, have seen a few Russian commentaries about the bankrupt American capitalists. The appearance of Obama winning by acclaim, if you believe the MSM, which the Russians seem to. The August vacation season for most of Europe, governments across Europe down to skeleton staffing. Tons of press reporting about our military being broken.

Seems a pretty good time to flex a few Russian muscles.

Well, Steve, the PKK has had long long standing ties to Moscow. And Russia blames Turkey for supporting Chechen rebels. 2+2 may indeed equal 4 this time.

There’s clearly layers and layers to this that we can’t begin to peel away. E.g., the truth is the first casualty in any conflict or war.

Now, will anyone with any influence on the process actually understand this? If Russia is looking beyond the Georgian border, beyond her Near Abroad, toward Turkey and Iraq, seems we have somewhat of a bigger problem on our hands.

Hmm, Russia is not 10-feet tall. Or even five.

With oil still at a robust $125 per barrel, Russia could sit quiet and take in the petro dollars. Slowly rebuild its military, increase the dependence of Western Europe on its resources and then make a move.

Why now? That puzzles me. The timing is more important than the actual invasion.

What’s up?

Well, Steve, the PKK has had long long standing ties to Moscow. And Russia blames Turkey for supporting Chechen rebels. 2+2 may indeed equal 4 this time.

Now, will anyone with any influence on the process actually understand this? If Russia is looking beyond the Georgian border, beyond her Near Abroad, toward Turkey and Iraq, seems we have somewhat of a bigger problem on our hands.

Questionable source but still interesting (link).

Key graf:
The comment above from [Duma advisor] Alexander Dugin [that the pipeline won't be re-opened] is a clear indicator for those not already aware that Russia’s intent in Georgia extends far beyond the dirt and people in the former Soviet republic. The larger target is western Europe and the United States.

Let’s all say “duh”.

I guess that’s progress.

I’m simply glad to see that American brainwashing doesn’t seem to work in Europe.

Brainwashing?

Yeah, our American press is so pro-Bush; they just uncritically repeat the White House line.

How about that other notorious pro-US media organ, the BBC?

If you think though he would speak against the overwhelming consensus in the country, then I think you’re bit delusional.

Overwhelming consensus in his country?

Seen any polling data on German attitudes towards this invasion and occupation?

Berlin, Washington, London and a host of former Soviet satellites in central Europe have condemned Russia’s military response in the conflict as disproportionate.

All brainwashed?

Got it right there to an extent. The farther and farther we got away from 1945, the fewer and fewer French and Germans took the threat, any sort of threat, even as members of NATO with any seriousness.

When I was born, and as a young child, I was living around all sorts of people who lived through WWII, on both sides, and later, as a young adult, I was living and working with a lot of E. Europeans, some who had gotten out before the Red Army arrived, some who got out in ‘56 through Hungary, or Prague in ‘68, and a bunch of more recent arrivals from Breshnev’s USSR. These folks understood a lot more than most of the rest of Europe and I’ll venture most Americans. By the late 80’s…two generations removed from WWII and all that, and a high standard of living for a good part of W. Europe…most couldn’t care less. The “threat” was gone, a figment of that older generation’s fears.

Brainwashing Europe? I’ll say Europe brainwashed itself…living on hopes and dreams and trying to get a franc or D-Mark was pretty much the focus. It wasn’t W. Europe or even America that actually brought down the Wall, or liberated E. Europe. We helped set some of the conditions for that event, but Gorbachev gets a good share of the praise or blame. The folks in E. Europe and Russia, eventually, took it upon themselves once the conditions were right and the leadership of E. Europe and Gobachev and Yeltsin suddenly discovered they couldn’t keep the people inside the wire anymore.

Anyone remember Egon Krenz?

Last leader of DDR. Even he didn’t get it when his Party was crumbling all around him and thousands of Traubies drove West. Was issuing Party edicts right up to the end.

This time, freevillage, seems the few that “get it” are those in New Europe, and a handful here in America.

As far as ideological preparation goes…Putin couldn’t have picked a better time to re-take the Empire.

Note that I’m not claiming that the consensus is to the opposite. I’m simply glad to see that American brainwashing doesn’t seem to work in Europe. Germany and France aren’t anywhere near the same page with the US government on the subject.

Money talks, former Soviet republics squawks (yeah, it needs work).

What was that again about Ed/AP lying by omission?

Just kidding; you did link to the story.

freevillage on August 16, 2008 at 1:52 PM

No, he says Georgian irregulars. Also, bear in mind that, if he agreed with the UN, then, wherever he was, south of North Ossetia, he was in Georgia. I wouldn’t trust a reporter, in the heat of the moment, to be perfectly accurate with the facts, but I would expect him to know the difference between regulars and irregulars.

I shall ignore your attempt at insult, since it was born of an inferiority complex.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0816/breaking347.htm

Sure, the historic use of “pogroms” was intended to deflect discontent among the populace.

But as I understand it, there’s pretty high anti-semitism – as I noted – in places where no or very few Jews live.

Anti-semitism versus anti-Zionism or criticism of Israel’s policies. The “Jews run the world” type of thing or “Jews control America”. Views held by, as I understand it, many Asians. Or a high percentage of them.

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 5:03 PM

It is called deflection and transference. Any totalitarian regime, or group, that has to hide its own faults from its people or followers, almost always uses some sort of scapegoat for their own failings. The Jews lost WWI for Germany, the Jews got the US into war, the Jews and wreckers interferred with the triumph of Communism…pretty common stuff, really. And, unfortunately.

Not a lot of European Jews around much anymore for some reason or ‘nother.

As someone noted, it’s interesting to note that anti-semitism is at its most virulent in places where there are no (or extremely few) Jews.

Other than the deicide charge, frankly I’ve never understood the “thinking” (if we can call it that) behind this bigotry.