Stupid: Atheist group wants to be included in Democrats’ … interfaith service
posted at 9:01 pm on August 15, 2008 by Allahpundit
I’m always at risk of overreacting to stories like this because as an atheist myself I hate the fact that tools like this purport to speak for me. That caveat aside, here’s possibly the single dumbest example of atheist identity politics we’ve seen yet, and we’ve seen some doozies. The sheer efficiency of its loathsomeness is amazing: In one fell swoop it reduces skepticism to a quasi-faith, trades “free thinking” for a pathetic need to feel “included,” and of course embraces the hallmark prostrate grievance posture of the victimized group. I’m not surprised that Dawkins sits on their Advisory Board, but to know that Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Salman Rushdie do too is depressing.
The chief executive officer of the Democratic National Convention Committee, the Rev. Leah Daughtry, has planned an interfaith gathering as the opening event of the Democratic National Convention on August 24, 2008. While it is designed to showcase the “diversity” and “shared values” of the party and achieve a “spirit of unity,” it will, in fact, marginalize those Democrats who do not practice religion…
Tens of millions of American voters are nontheists with no god belief, and millions more who practice some religion bring secular values to their political choices. Based as it is on the premise that all values are necessarily derived from religion, this year’s Democratic convention leaves atheists, agnostics, humanists and other secular voters feeling increasingly isolated and voiceless. By accepting Brown’s offer, the Democratic Party can signal to this constituency that it is serious about being inclusive and tolerant.
In other words, celebrating your religion is “marginalizing” to people who choose not to celebrate religion. Or, as one independent-minded skeptic now reveling in the comfort of faux-discrimination put it, “By reaching out to people of faith, they have shown the back of their hand to those who do not believe.” Exit question one: By that logic, does reaching out to gays or blacks constitute showing the back of one’s hand to straights and whites? And exit question two: Allahpundit, self-hating atheist?
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The word you’re looking for is zealotry.
Then why did he try to return the thirty pieces of silver and end by committing suicide out of shame? He could’ve just bathed in luxury like some discredited Senator.
aengus on August 17, 2008 at 8:20 PM
They sure seem to get off on the idea of others perpetual suffering and torture. Creepy.
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 8:28 PM
zealousness
noun
Passionate devotion to or interest in a cause or subject, for example: ardor, enthusiasm, fervor, fire, passion, zeal. See concern/unconcern, feelings.
Merriam Webster –
zealous
Main Entry: zeal·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈze-ləs\
Function: adjective
Date: 1526
: filled with or characterized by zeal : marked by fervent partisanship for a person, a cause, or an ideal
— zeal·ous·ly adverb
— zeal·ous·ness noun
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 8:30 PM
New words get added to the English dictionary every year but “zealousness” is a totally unnecessary and superfluous word as the word “zealotry”, which means the exact same thing, has always sufficed.
In a similar vein some people think that every strain of thought has to be characterised by the suffix “-ism” as if every belief system were purely political in nature.
The (fictional) Orwellian vision of human consciousness being narrowed by eliminating words from the English language has been replaced by the (real life) practice of inventing more and more new words and phrases, lots of which are ambiguous deceptions designed specifically to confuse people as to what they mean (“Islamism” etc.)
aengus on August 17, 2008 at 8:47 PM
Boy, some of these guys get really upset. Well, at least we have concluded that atheism is a religion. We’ve done that. You have to believe there is no God. That’s something you believe, you take that on faith. This has to be one of the top threads ever!! We have accomplished alot. Thank you.
apacalyps on August 17, 2008 at 8:52 PM
Atheists only deny humanities obligatory description and pigeon holing of the unknowable.
BL@KBIRD on August 17, 2008 at 8:59 PM
I’m all for justice, aren’t you?
right4life on August 17, 2008 at 9:44 PM
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 10:48 PM
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Heres one for MB4 –
Manga!
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 10:58 PM
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Except that if God exists, then man’s judgment and understanding of Him is completely worthless.
Then again if God doesn’t exist, the same is true as well.
Esthier on August 17, 2008 at 11:23 PM
Unless I am misreading you, I’m afraid I must respectfully disagree with you on both points.
If God exists the our understanding of him and his will is essential lest fall under his heel.
If God does not exist, then we must judge the value of submitting to the arbitrary will and manipulations of those people and institutions who claim falsely to speak for him.
IMHO.
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 11:38 PM
ronsfi on August 17, 2008 at 11:44 PM
Ha. The educated answer is the one that doesn’t know a thing?
You speak of religion in terms of aliens and Santa Claus before calling religious people uneducated.
I don’t think it’s our fault that you understanding of it is that shallow.
Show me where we can prove God does not exist.
It would seem to me that a rational man would discuss proof on the most important sides of the debate. Since the believer loses nothing if God doesn’t exist but loses everything for not believing if He does, why would the onus be on the believer to prove his side?
And there’s that stereotypical charm of the “enlightened.”
Esthier on August 18, 2008 at 12:00 AM
Unless he believes in the wrong god.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:12 AM
Zealouness is to zeal as joyfulness is to joy. Zealousness is zeal in your life; Joyfulness is joy displayed in your life.
Many times I have wanted to comment on a lot of peoples’ misconception about faith. Faith is not a belief unsupported by reason. Faith is committing oneself to act in accordance with what one believes. When I press the brake pedal on my car, I have faith that (1) my brakes are capable of stopping my car and (2) my mechanic was true to his word when he said he had repaired my calipers.
God does give proofs. And some are willing to believe Him and some are not. Abraham was pronounced righteous because he believed that God was telling the truth when God spoke to him, not because he suddenly came to believe that God existed. (In those days believing in the existence of God was not a big stretch.) The New Testament says that belief in the existence of God is not saving faith; the devils believe that God exists and they tremble at their knowledge.
However, the Hebrew word for faith is closer to the point. When the Old Testament says that the just shall live by faith, that is the same Hebrew word translated most everywhere else as faithfulness. This is why we can say today that all who believe in Jesus may be saved, but yet that faith without works is dead. Faith is a characteristic of how one is living, not simply intellectual assent.
Faithlessness does not begin with Were is God? but begins with the question: Has God really said…?
Faithfulness is your faith displayed in how you live out your life. Do you live your life like you believe what God has said, or like you don’t?
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 1:05 AM
Gee. Fear and terror. I can’t wait to feel that.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 1:06 AM
I feel it every time Obama’s up in the polls.
sulla on August 18, 2008 at 1:58 AM
its your choice.
all you atheists who don’t believe in hell, sure are upset by the concept of it, aren’t you now?
just because you don’t like hell, you think God is unjust for sending anyone there. as if you can judge God.
but actually hell is merciful, because for people like you, His very presence would be the worst torment of all…in hell His presence is removed, which is exactly what you want.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:38 AM
Right. Free will. Surely I’ll take it and follow the word of someone who tries to coerce me into thinking like them through threats of ultimate destruction and the loss of paradise. Promise me the 72 virgins as well, and I’m yours.
I’m not an atheist. It’s amazing how many of you zealots in this thread, the kind which give the majority of Christians who are rational and sane a bad name, have continued to make that mistake about me. It’s kind of funny how that’s your fallback despite the numerous times I’ve pointed out your error.
Don’t you worry, though. Your god will damn me to hell and bring vengeance on me…because he loves me.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 9:47 AM
I lost my taste for Carlin a few years ago, but some of his diatribes never lose their quotability:
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 9:51 AM
your argument is with Jesus, not with me. good luck winning that one. you don’t like what He plans to do, too bad, theres not much you can do to change it. you can believe it, or not. but of course you have to bear the consequences of your choice…don’t whine or complain.
oh actually beleiving what the bible says makes you a ‘zealot’ then I am proud to be a zealot!!
He does love you, but sooner, or later, you will live with the results of your choice. Spurn His grace, feel His wrath. simple.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:55 AM
Carlin and you have a caricature of Jesus, and christians…continue in your hate and ignorance.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:57 AM
“They want you to send your money to the Lord, but they give you their address.”–Hank Williams, Jr. in The American Dream
backwoods conservative on August 18, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Unless you are the son of God, which you are not, my argument is with you. This is especially true since there are about 2 billion other Jesus followers in this world, most of which have a different take on how God is than you do.
Pride is a sin, pal. Claiming to know the will of God, and much less to claim to BE God, is a sin.
Like before, billions of others believe what the Bible says and believe differently than you. Oh, and if you hadn’t heard, there are TWO testaments from the Bible. It’s pretty clear you’re only interested in the first, which is ironic given that much of what Jesus was claimed to have said by the writers of the New Testament contradicts much of the old.
Eight years of Catholic school, bub. I didn’t drink the flavor-aid, but I did my research. It always confused me how the majority of my classmates, who were members of the Church, never read or studied the Bible, while I, who was not baptized nor a member, took quite an interest.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 10:04 AM
I’ve defended Christians numerous times in this thread, you lying little creep. If you can’t be bothered to see what I’ve said in this thread, don’t make the mistake of claiming to know what I think, believe, or feel. You know that no more than you know the mind of God.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 10:06 AM
really? and how do you know this? so Jesus talked about hell mroe than heaven, but yet, according to you, hell doesn’t exist? right.
you’re delusional. so nice of you to sit in the place of God and judge me.
post your proof.
none of it does.
its obvious you never read the bible, nor understood it at all.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Heh! I like that one even better! Catchier, and doesn’t come from a troofer.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 10:07 AM
you’re a delusional moron. I’m done casting pearls before swine like you. idiot.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 10:08 AM
I’m delusional? Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, and you claim to know the will of God and be him by claiming my argument is with “Jesus”. Unless Jesus has recently registered at HotAir, my argument is with a twerp who feels divine right has been granted to them, and who damns all who believes other than them to eternal torment. Just like your average “allahu akbar”-ing nutball who throws a fit over a cartoon.
And the fact that you feign ignorance of the billions of other Christians who hold differing views of Christ and God than you shows true delusion. Enjoy your life of quivering in fear at your vision of God. I know a little group that might take you in. They’re called the Westboro Baptist Church. The way you talk, they’ll probably make you their leader.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 10:12 AM
You can hear that song on YouTube, if you’d like.
backwoods conservative on August 18, 2008 at 10:19 AM
We will all proclaim him Lord…unless Bilbo and Frodo can get to Mordor and hurl the One Ring into the fires of Mount Doom.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Thank you for that much-needed summation :-)
Seven pages of commentary on this kind of mindless horseshit? Really? I’d have hoped that both theists and atheists alike would have more sense.
LimeyGeek on August 18, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Yes, some people are turned away from seeking God because they envision that He is some sort of cruel and vindictive God…but probably the most likely scenario is that atheists turn away from God because of; not only their huge pride, but the fact that they do not want to take responsibility for their actions or their reality.
Pridefulness and irresponsibility go hand in hand.
You have to NOT take responsibility, in order to remain prideful..otherwise who would you blame for the fact of your fallibility?
In Truth, there is no such thing as an atheist, as all men, in their souls, know that God exists. To deny and reject Him is a different matter.
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 11:11 AM
you think you’re witty, but you’re actually just idiotic.
but thats SOP for atheists.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Hey, AP, whenever you get too disillusioned with atheism, Jesus will still be waiting for you.
Beo on August 18, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Yes. If anyone disagrees with your beliefs, they are an idiot.
Well said, old chap.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:23 AM
You’re on a conservative website saying conservative atheists aren’t concerned with taking responsibility for their own actions?
Oy.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:25 AM
you’re an idiot because you make claims and cannot back them up.
add to that the personal attacks. so yes you are an idiot.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:25 AM
add to that lying about what I said. so you’re a liar as well as an idiot.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:27 AM
lets see, you have to distort my positions, lie about what I said, engage in personal attacks…let me guess you’re a darwiniac!!
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:28 AM
“Liar liar!!”
“Idiot!”
“Moron!!”
“Dope!”
Akzed on August 18, 2008 at 11:28 AM
Ergo, atheists are idiots. Therefore, people who disagree with your beliefs on God are idiots.
But please, let’s see some interesting squirming to circumvent that nuance.
And once again, you little creep, you openly ignore what I posted in this thread:
I have shown your assertions about me to be false. I have restated your words, and you deny them. Three times before the rooster crows, perhaps?
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:35 AM
I am witty, educated and incredibly handsome. Comfortably well off as well. But don’t be too bitter. You can get a warm fuzzy from the knowledge that I will fry in a lake of fire for all eternity. I’m sure that gets you all dewy.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Hibbedy Jibbedy Wibbedy Flibbedy
LimeyGeek on August 18, 2008 at 11:39 AM
the two don’t follow. muslims disagre with my beliefs on God too. they’re not arrogant, and full of themselves like atheists are.
your logic skills are really lacking.
uh sorry lying idiot, I haven’t read the entire thread.
not at all.
yes, you are a martyr, just as Jesus was. how nice of you to think you’re at His level.
really delusional.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:39 AM
actually its sad, but I wouldn’t stand between a fool and fire..enjoy.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:41 AM
Wait…I thought I was arguing with Jesus. You did claim my argument was with Jesus, while in fact I am arguing with you, therefore implying that you are Jesus. So…how can you be a “was”? Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
Oh, then that’s fine. As long as you admit that you are spouting nonsense about my views, while being willfully ignorant of the truth that is a click away, then you can say whatever you wish.
But please, do look into the Westboro Baptist Church. They agree heartily with you.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:44 AM
The Truth is, God is not cruel. God is loving…that is His nature, and He offers the chance to align with His Divine Energies, be filled with His Holy Spirit and experience deification and knowledge, at any given moment, to anyone!
Once a person experiences God and is introduced to the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit…there is no way that that person could ever again deny the existence of God! FACT!
Does this mean that the atheist is inferior to the believer and that believers are by definition, superior to atheists?
ABSOLUTELY! By definition, the person with knowledge of something is superior in knowledge to the person who has no knowledge of something.
The difference is this: pride is anathema to Christianity.
Even though the Christian is far superior to the atheist, by definition, the Christian is also far less prideful than the atheist…
Why the fallible atheist thinks they are the most knowledgeable people on earth and why the atheist retains such a hugely undeserved sense of pride is a testament to the fact that their pride in fact, keeps them from reaching or seeking any such knowledge in the first place!
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Julie Banderas interviews right4life on Fox.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:47 AM
delusional. seriously get some professional help.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:49 AM
You’re right. You’re claiming that I am arguing with Jesus, and since I’m arguing with you, this means you think you are the second coming.
I obviously need a padded room.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:51 AM
These atheists are getting more wacko all the time.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 11:53 AM
You know, you might actually get further calling atheists witches.
It certainly took care of them quickly and efficiently last time.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Yes and it’s not even that they claim no knowledge of whether God exists…they claim that they KNOW God does not exist.
In order to make such a claim they would have had to search through every thing in the universe and have ALL KNOWLEDGE of everything in order to make such a claim!
It’s their MASSIVE PRIDE that influences them to make such a statement…and it’s their MASSIVE PRIDE that keeps them from seeking and finding God!
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:00 PM
yeah they’re too smart for God by far….
but God uses the foolishness of the cross to confound the wise.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:01 PM
If claiming God doesn’t exist is wacko, then claiming God does exist is just as wacko. That’s yours and WestboroBaptist4life’s standard, not mine. You have to realize that. Theists and atheists are both claiming things for which they have no proof.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:03 PM
The Truth is…pride is a spirit.
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:11 PM
In matters of pride, it simply comes down to this.
If you have faith in God, that is not pride.
If you have faith that there is no God, that is not pride.
If you claim to know that there is a God, that is pride.
If you claim to know that there is no God, that is pride.
Faith is based on that for which there is no proof. To claim knowledge without proof is the purest pride there is.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:16 PM
This is weirdest part of any dialog with God Worshippers. There is no way to have a rational discussion with folks who, if you don’t believe as they do, claim you are Demon Possessed.
We just think you are mistaken in your beliefs.
You think we are possessed by De Debbil!
I guess that makes me wacko.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:19 PM
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:21 PM
a lie from the pit of hell.
we have the proof of the resurrection.
we also have the proof of the prophecies. only God can do that.
all you can do is deny the truth.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:22 PM
yeah thats why atheists have been behind so many atrocities.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:23 PM
first honest thing you’ve ever said.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:23 PM
Just call me Satan and get it over with, you worthless troll. The Phelps family has a “God Hates Fags” sign waiting for you.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:24 PM
Oooh. You made a funny. Here’s cookie.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:26 PM
truth hurts, doesn’t it, you piece of trash.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:26 PM
oooh you made yourself look stupid…no surprise.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Your God must be so proud. What a shining example.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:27 PM
Okay, Crusader.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:28 PM
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:29 PM
you’re right, I should have just said something christian, like:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I’m sure your god is proud of you too!!
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:29 PM
The atheists are not evil people
No man is evil
The evil comes from the enemy of man
Man only says YES or NO with his freedom
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:29 PM
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:30 PM
thank God for the crusades!! otherwise we’d all be muslim.
interesting how a ‘conservative’ mentions the crusades, but not the muslim invasion of europe that the crusades were a response to.
laughable.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:30 PM
You don’t even have the guts to say it. I’ve pointed out that you’re a total and complete lying, hypocritical loon with no respect for people who don’t share your view of God, and you’ve reached your basest level of lashing out.
Because of this, I am Satan. I must be destroyed. I am a witch, a pagan, a fill-in-the-blank.
Repeat: You are the same as any bloodthirsty terrorist, and I’m utterly ashamed if you are an American.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:31 PM
That’s not wacko. Nope. Not wacko at all.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:31 PM
stuipd is as stupid does—forrest gump
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:31 PM
Well you got one part right…it is not God that sends anyone to hell….you will send yourself to hell.
God loves you and that is why he respects your decision when you decide to reject Him eternally.
It is you who decides to reject Him and to flee from Him.
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:33 PM
So the response was…a Christian invasion. Two religions invaded a nation, killed many, many people, and imposed their beliefs upon others on threat of death if they chose not to.
What’s your point?
Wanna go for the Spanish Inquisition next?
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:33 PM
OK wrong4life you have clearly run to end of your chain. All you have left is “Your a big Satan Worshiper. Yer the Devil”
Have your little tantrum. I must get back to work.
Pray for inner peace.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Amazing how I don’t like you, and I’m pretty sure you don’t like me, but this chump has figured us to have the same father. Who’d have guessed we’re both named Damien?
I’m now beginning to think WestboroBaptist4life is a cross between Shirley Phelps and the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:35 PM
yes a christian invasion, to kill the invaders….get a clue, the crusaders were defending themselves from the muslims who invaded christian lands.
without those evil crusaders, people like you would not be around. how long do you think you’d last in the lands of islam??? hmmmm??? lets see your brave atheism and snarky comments there!!!
oh yeah a whole 2k or so people killed in a hundred or so years….yeah compare that to your atheist heros…stalin, mao, pol pot, etc.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:36 PM
hope you evolve some intellgence.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:37 PM
I quoted from the Bible, looks like the truth hurts.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Since you’ve made it clear that you know nothing about me, and have no interest in reading through the comments to find out what I believe, you’ll discover I’m not an atheist. I do not claim to know that God does not exist.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:39 PM
The Crusades are a terrible example for you to use Madison…it’s quite obvious that the muslims were invading and the Crusades were a defensive measure that in fact saved europe until now..
People in those days started wars over the silliest things….but you choose to criticize the Crusades which actually saved europe?
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:41 PM
how clueless are you? you know as well as I do that not to submit to islam in the lands of islam is the path to dhimmitude and death.
you cannot deal with what I say, so you have to try to twist what I say…who else would do that?? hmmmm???
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:41 PM
1 Charlatan 19-21: And the mighty voice of Him thundered upon the earth, and all were at ears for the great message to be passed upon them.
And He warned that among them would be the antichrist, the one who would bring all damnation upon them.
And that this one would be named MadisonConservative. Or ronsfi. Or something.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:43 PM
I do feel sorry for you, you must be in a great deal of pain, such stupidity has to hurt.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Yes Madison you are not an atheist I know that..in fact you have actually made many good arguments against atheism in this thread.
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Meh. I’m over it. Have fun poking at the trolls. You little devil you!
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 12:44 PM
So, just starting with the First Crusade…the taking of Jerusalem, where they fought against both Jews and Muslims (yes, they actually fought on the same side, if you can believe it), that was…saving Europe?
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:45 PM
thought you had to get back to work???
well whats one more lie?
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:45 PM
I do not correct you, sir, as you have not made the accusation. Nor did you make an accusation of me being a Darwinist. Your little jester over there, however, since he claims to be Jesus, appears to know more about me than I do. ;)
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:47 PM
Seriously, shut the hell up and go away, you piece of crap.
Last words to you.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:47 PM
What is an anti-Christ?
The anti-Christ spirit is on the earth..
You can tell who is speaking from the anti-Christ spirit when a person denies Jesus Christ..
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:48 PM
I shouldn’t cast pearls before such obvious swine, but I have enjoyed making you look stupid, not that its very hard….
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:50 PM
Sounds appropriate to me, to declare that there is no God, requires at least as much faith as to believe that there is one.
MarkTheGreat on August 18, 2008 at 12:50 PM
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