Stupid: Atheist group wants to be included in Democrats’ … interfaith service
posted at 9:01 pm on August 15, 2008 by Allahpundit
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I’m always at risk of overreacting to stories like this because as an atheist myself I hate the fact that tools like this purport to speak for me. That caveat aside, here’s possibly the single dumbest example of atheist identity politics we’ve seen yet, and we’ve seen some doozies. The sheer efficiency of its loathsomeness is amazing: In one fell swoop it reduces skepticism to a quasi-faith, trades “free thinking” for a pathetic need to feel “included,” and of course embraces the hallmark prostrate grievance posture of the victimized group. I’m not surprised that Dawkins sits on their Advisory Board, but to know that Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Salman Rushdie do too is depressing.
The chief executive officer of the Democratic National Convention Committee, the Rev. Leah Daughtry, has planned an interfaith gathering as the opening event of the Democratic National Convention on August 24, 2008. While it is designed to showcase the “diversity” and “shared values” of the party and achieve a “spirit of unity,” it will, in fact, marginalize those Democrats who do not practice religion…
Tens of millions of American voters are nontheists with no god belief, and millions more who practice some religion bring secular values to their political choices. Based as it is on the premise that all values are necessarily derived from religion, this year’s Democratic convention leaves atheists, agnostics, humanists and other secular voters feeling increasingly isolated and voiceless. By accepting Brown’s offer, the Democratic Party can signal to this constituency that it is serious about being inclusive and tolerant.
In other words, celebrating your religion is “marginalizing” to people who choose not to celebrate religion. Or, as one independent-minded skeptic now reveling in the comfort of faux-discrimination put it, “By reaching out to people of faith, they have shown the back of their hand to those who do not believe.” Exit question one: By that logic, does reaching out to gays or blacks constitute showing the back of one’s hand to straights and whites? And exit question two: Allahpundit, self-hating atheist?
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they don’t know who owns them…but they will someday.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Wouldn’t an anti-christ be more accurately defined as a person who is against Christ? As in, against all he stands for? I know many atheists who accept that Jesus Christ existed, and that he taught good lessons, but that they merely do not believe him to be the son of any God.
I would tend to call those people “meh-christs”.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:51 PM
By the way, while I dismiss nearly all platitudes, there was one I always did like.
“I don’t believe in God.”
“That’s all right. He believes in you.”
I’ve yet to have heard a more truly endearing thought about the idea of God.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:55 PM
It is a spirit that inspires a person to say that Jesus was not God..
You want proof of God’s existence?
Here is some.
The name of Jesus is the most powerful name in the universe!
Demonic spirits are cast out in His name.
They tremble at His name alone!
Try it if you are oppressed and you will have your proof!
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Show me proof of demonic spirits.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Murder, child rape etc. etc. etc.
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 12:59 PM
you’re wasting your time with mc. he cannot deal with the resurrection, and its just casting pearls before swine.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 1:05 PM
btw: I’m still here, and I haven’t shut up, what are you going to do about it??
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 1:06 PM
I could just as easily chalk those up to free will. They are horrible occurrences. They do not prove demonic possession any more than an act of generosity proves the presence of God. There are atheists and even Satanists that do good things, and there are devoted faithful Christians that do bad things.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM
Child rape an act of free will and not evil?
You seriously don’t believe that do you?
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 1:21 PM
It is a horrible occurrence caused by any number of emotions or mental defects. However, it is still a choice. I repeat, devout Christians have been found to commit acts as heinous as that. What happened there?
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 1:36 PM
They also CHOSE to follow evil. I’m not saying they were forced to…only that, that is what inspired them to do so.
SaintOlaf on August 18, 2008 at 1:44 PM
The crux of the argument that I never understand is thusly:
If God created everything, including Lucifer, and he is all-powerful, how can his desired influence be so easily displaced by undesired influences that are his creation?
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 1:47 PM
Oh yeah… he’s back on Mean Street and ready for war!
apacalyps on August 18, 2008 at 2:08 PM
There are so many people who actually want to hear the truths about The Bible and creation that it is a waste of time to get distracted with (some) of these scoffers. Right4life is correct in saying it is like casting our pearls before swine.
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” Matthew 7:6
They will ask question after question after question or make hundreds of accusations. Yet, when you answer them with the truth, they ignore it. How come? Well, it’s because they don’t want the truth. It’s that simple. My friends remember this when debating some of the scoffers. Some have become reprobates. The Bible tells us God, He gives them over to their lusts and they start believing a lie (see Thessalonians 2:11-12). I am convinced they don’t really want an answer, they just want to tie up all your time and prevent the gospel from getting out.
apacalyps on August 18, 2008 at 2:14 PM
Correction. That’s 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12.
apacalyps on August 18, 2008 at 2:20 PM
Hoo, boy, I’ve been here before.
right4life,
Please stop calling people delusional, idiots and trash: at the very least ‘trash’ is disrespectful and at the worst it is judging the worth of someone’s soul. And as you know that is a big no-no. Unless you mean by ‘trash’: good trash; temporary trash; or trash-like non-trash.
MadisonConservative,
I like your idea of meh-christs. But I think perhaps there is no such thing. Sin is simply lawlessness towards God. If you meh Christ and live a more or less okay life, doing nothing terribly wrong or nothing exceptionally brilliant (Is this the meh-christ spirit?), you still have sinned somewhere, probably often, and need forgiveness.
Jesus is the creator and mediator of this forgiveness, for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Mohammedans, atheists, agnostics, everyone.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 6:54 PM
some people are delusional, idiots, trash or all of the above.
why is making a judgment about someone a big no-no? would you let a child abuser babysit your child? if not, why not? isn’t that a judgment and a no-no?
I think you need to research what the bible says about making judgments about people, otherwise no one should be in jail, since ‘let him who is without sin cast the first stone’ right?
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 7:08 PM
right4life,
Okay, I feel a little awkward about this, but I got the feeling you were judging MC’s worth before God. As you know, God died for him and loves him. For you to call him trash, seems sort of, you know…judgmental in the ‘judge not’ sort of way.
I didn’t suppose when I read your posts that you were saying MC is a criminal and needs to be punished here on earth by temporal authorities for his present crimes. Is that what you meant? Or, by ‘trash’, were you referring to the quality of his eternal soul?
My feeling is that no matter how much I am vexed by a person, he may just be as vexed by me. Who’s right? God knows. Is he going to hell? God knows and I don’t. Remember, one of the men on the cross next to Jesus deserved death by his own admission. Yet Jesus accepted his deathbed repentance. And if you too are accepted into that paradise after you die, you will spend eternity worshipping side by side with him.
My earnest question to you is: What did Jesus mean when He said ‘judge not’, and why did He even say it?
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 7:43 PM
so you were making a judgement about me, at the same time you were comdemning me for making a judgement about others….ok
Jesus died for the pharisees, yet He called them vipers, and children of Satan.
by trash I was referring to his ‘quality’ of thinking, and his personality, not his eternal soul.
depends…if you’re vexed at someone because he’s trying to rape your daughter, and he’s vexed at you for interrupting him…..who’s right?
well why should I answer your earnest question, when you could not answer mine? should we not judge right and wrong? the bible says ‘the fool says in his heart there is no God’ so if I call an atheist a fool, am I incorrect?
you know you might want to read it in context, instead of just pulling a verse out of context, and twisting it to your own ends…
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
clearly this is talking about hypocrital judgements.
now please try to answer my questions, instead of being so judgemental of me, which I guess is OK for one of your holiness, but is prohibited for me.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 8:05 PM
I agree. Personally, while I do not have faith in Jesus being the son of anyone other than Mary and probably Joseph, I admire his attitude towards the ways one should live their life more than any figure of religion. If one chooses to live unremarkable lives, then so be it. I think their own self-inflicted punishment is leaving no mark on the world before they go.
And of course, everyone “sins” at some point. There are people who are truly selfish and greedy and self-centered, and act accordingly. However, I think the average person does, at some point (usually later in life), seek atonement for such things, even if they don’t necessarily subscribe to any religion. I could be wrong or idealistic, but that’s just my view.
Dude, I mockingly dared him to call me Satan, and he said “truth hurts”. He said the same about someone else. And now he’s playing gotcha games with you. He’s a worthless little troll who likely doesn’t really believe an ounce of what he’s saying, and if he is, he is exactly like the inbred nitwits who protest soldier’s funerals and hold up signs that say things like “Thank God for 9/11″.
Either way, he’s no more worth engaging than a random member at Democratic Underground.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 8:33 PM
yeah the truth hurts doesn’t it??
1 John 2:22-23 “Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 8:39 PM
btw: you are a piece of trash. bet you’re fat ugly and smell too!
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Heh…Sunni’s and Shites go on like this too in teh intardwebs.
BL@KBIRD on August 18, 2008 at 8:43 PM
Atheism is a very unique religion.
apacalyps on August 18, 2008 at 9:03 PM
Okay, right4life,
First of all I did answer your questions. I think I was clear enough. And I’m not going to rewrite my answers further than saying that the term judgment has two uses, one is a condemnation of the soul, and the other is a province of wisdom. I doubt your calling MC trash is an application of wisdom.
Second your questions are baiting, your name-calling is offensive, and your sarcasm is…fleshy. I am not judging you; I am simply making observations of your on-line behavior. You can call people fools all you want but be careful; Jesus said not to call your brother a fool, either.
And since you did not have the courtesy to answer my questions, I will:
Jesus meant by ‘judge not’ that we should not judge the final quality of the eternal soul of another. We are not to judge these things for ourselves because we are insufficient to do so. Only God can judge. This does not mean that we can not make rational decisions, weigh options and probabilities or act wisely with the light that we have. But He does specifically call on us to leave the judgment of spiritual condemnation to Him.
Jesus said this because judging others invariably leads to hypocrisy which is a sin of falsity.
Rom 2:1 says, ‘Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.’ Notice that Paul states without qualification that judging invariably leads to self-condemnation; not because your judgment isn’t correct but because it either exposes your hypocrisy, which condemns you, or self-condemns you for doing the same thing at some time as the one you are judging. Paul leaves no room here. He does not qualify this by saying judging may or can or often leads to self-condemnation.
And hypocrisy is falsity. Falsity is outside of God’s character and forbidden by His commandments. In Exodus 23:7 God says, ‘Keep thee far from a false matter;’ and in
Exodus 20:16, He says, ‘Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.’ Judgment in itself is essentially a spiritual matter in which you either are testifying to God to condemn someone, or you are testifying to yourself, acting in God’s place, to condemn another.
This kind of judgement is God’s province alone.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:06 PM
you ’sir’ are a liar. I did answer your question, clearly and plainly.
you ignored my questions about when it is appropriate to judge.
but you condemn me, and thats ok. wow it must be nice to have achieved such holiness!!
you ’sir’, are a hypocrite.
and that is simply an observation of YOUR online behavior.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:09 PM
May be more a belief than a religion. More at the level of monotheism than Judaism.
dedalus on August 18, 2008 at 9:11 PM
Heuch!
MC: Just from the writing I assumed right4life was a woman. No offense intended to women. And, basically, I agree with you, too. I would only add that Jesus is more than unique; He’s God.
Bl@ckbrid: Am I a Sunni or a Shiite?
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:12 PM
and now you agree with MC about me!!
oh so now you are calling me names!
are you for real? this is too funny!
thanks for confirming my observation about your hypocrisy!
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:18 PM
Gee, r4l, I went back and looked at what you wrote after this:
and I honestly couldn’t find anything you had written that answered my questions. What did He mean, and why did He say it?
And I must say that I think the whole ‘you, sir, are a liar’ Foghorn T. Leghorn puffery is a little too comic to answer.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:21 PM
I thought Jesus loved the Fat,Ugly,and Smelly. Like leppers and prostitutes. The poor unwashed. You know, the ones you call trash.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 9:23 PM
I warned ya, man. It’s like arguing with a parrot. In the end, all that will happen is you will get nowhere, and he will crap on something in order to make a point.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 9:24 PM
r4l,
What name did I call you? WhaddiddIdo? WhaddiddIdo?! I really, really, thought I was responding to the commentary of a woman. Okay, I was wrong. It was a mistake — if you say so. But it wasn’t a deliberate insult.
Cool off. Take a breath.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:25 PM
5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
guess you just missed this quote…after I posted the entire context, which you left out…
as to why you cannot answer it, see above.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:26 PM
Hmmm. Thinking this chode is a woman is, to him, “calling him names”. It’s insulted at the prospect of being considered a woman.
Now what other religious beliefs hold women as inferior creatures of scorn? Oh yeah! Radical Islam! But don’t they also consider others who don’t believe the same as them are “kafir”? Wait…doesn’t that mean trash? Hmmm…
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 9:26 PM
no I call you and MC trash, for good reason.
again you have to lie about me, you piece of trash.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:27 PM
lets see from your earlier post you said:
so you agreed with MC about me…where he said:
so you don’t directly call me names, just agree with someone who does!! as befits one of your holiness…
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:30 PM
Come come lest we judge him too harshly. Remember, it’s not him talking. It’s the Demonic Spirit that moves his tongue to hysterical rage.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 9:30 PM
again you prove yourself a liar. you have to twist what I say, and who is the father of lies?? hmmm??
its pretty obvious whose you are.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:32 PM
hysterical laughter from your posts is more accurate.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:32 PM
MC,
Like arguing with a parrot!! I’m still chortling over that one.
ronsfi,
Yes, as far as I know Jesus loves the Fat,Ugly,and Smelly. Like leppers and prostitutes. The poor unwashed. You know, the ones you call trash. And even me, I guess. And he calls us all to repentance. All of us. The ultimate question is, hate being pedantic here, how do we respond to this love?
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:33 PM
why am I not surprised that good ‘christian’ like you would take the side of MC?
fess up, you’re just another atheist.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Thank you. They are rather witty and often hilarious. I love it when you get hysterical like this. It gives the lie to your earlier sanctimonious piety. This is who you are. A bitter raging little boy. Maybe you should go nyny now. You are getting cranky.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 9:37 PM
r4l,
No, no, no! Not about the troll part. About the rest of his stuff in his 8:33 PM post. Now don’t get all paranoid on me here.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:40 PM
you posts are hilarious!! I can’t believe anyone could be so stupid!!
I especially like it when you tell me what I’m thinking, or how I feel!!
such stupidity has to hurt, you must be in a great deal of pain!!
and whats even funnier is you think you’re educated and witty!!! thats probably the funniest part!!
you’ve given me a lot of laughs, keep posting your amusing drivel!!
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:43 PM
Yes I’m sure to such a one, all humanity is trash. After all this is not about Christianity and Atheism but rather the lashing out of a powerless hateful soul who longs for power over others yet has no power over himself. Clearly we have crossed a line into pathology.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 9:45 PM
oh ok, so you think the following:
again, you prove yourself a hypocrite.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:45 PM
recognition is the first step towards recovery.
I wish you good luck in your journey!!
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:46 PM
Nothing you say can hurt me little one. Your frenzied attempts are touching in a sad sort of way. Try more exclamation points and maybe all caps.
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 9:47 PM
actually I’m praying for you, and wishing you the best.
I feel sorry for you.
right4life on August 18, 2008 at 9:49 PM
GO TO YOUR PRAYER CLOSET!
ronsfi on August 18, 2008 at 9:53 PM
Uhh, that quote is not from me, r4l. But I’m waaaaay late for a lunch date with my wife. I am soooooo in trouble! ‘Bye.
flicker on August 18, 2008 at 9:57 PM
I disagree on that one dedalus.
Definition of atheism:
1. The doctrine or belief that there is no God.
You must believe there is no god. So don’t tell me my theory is religious and their’s is not! No sir, they are both religious. The only difference is, atheISM’s “holy” book (evolution theory) is taught in schools and tax supported. You betchya! Atheists proselytize their belief system just like other religions. Just read some of the posts on this thread for proof.
apacalyps on August 18, 2008 at 10:54 PM
It’s not my fault nobody shows up at their ‘Atheist Meetings.’
apacalyps on August 18, 2008 at 10:55 PM
Hmmm. I guess atheists didn’t exist before Charles Darwin was born. Amazing.
MadisonConservative on August 18, 2008 at 11:41 PM
They existed before 1859. My point is an Atheist clings to the evolution fairytale the same way a Christian clings to the Holy Bible. And they proselytize their belief system just like a Christian does theirs.
apacalyps on August 19, 2008 at 12:02 PM
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