Bolton: “The United States fiddled while Georgia burned”; Update: Russian armor 15 miles from Tbilisi

posted at 1:15 pm on August 15, 2008 by Allahpundit

A hard tonic that mixes only too well, unfortunately, with reports like this one of Bush “writing checks to the Georgians without knowing what he had in the bank,” as one senior U.S. official put it.

As bad as the bloodying of Georgia is, the broader consequences are worse. The United States fiddled while Georgia burned, not even reaching the right rhetorical level in its public statements until three days after the Russian invasion began, and not, at least to date, matching its rhetoric with anything even approximating decisive action. This pattern is the very definition of a paper tiger. Sending Secretary of State Condeleezza Rice to Tbilisi is touching, but hardly reassuring; dispatching humanitarian assistance is nothing more than we would have done if Georgia had been hit by a natural rather than a man-made disaster.

The European Union took the lead in diplomacy, with results approaching Neville Chamberlain’s moment in the spotlight at Munich: a ceasefire that failed to mention Georgia’s territorial integrity, and that all but gave Russia permission to continue its military operations as a “peacekeeping” force anywhere in Georgia. More troubling, over the long term, was that the EU saw its task as being mediator – its favourite role in the world – between Georgia and Russia, rather than an advocate for the victim of aggression…

It profits us little to blame Georgia for “provoking” the Russian attack. Nor is it becoming of the United States to have anonymous officials from its State Department telling reporters, as they did earlier this week, that they had warned Georgia not to provoke Russia. This confrontation is not about who violated the Marquess of Queensbury rules in South Ossetia, where ethnic violence has been a fact of life since the break-up of the Soviet Union on December 31, 1991 – and, indeed, long before. Instead, we are facing the much larger issue of how Russia plans to behave in international affairs for decades to come. Whether Mikhail Saakashvili “provoked” the Russians on August 8, or September 8, or whenever, this rape was well-planned and clearly coming, given Georgia’s manifest unwillingness to be “Finlandized” – the Cold War term for effectively losing your foreign-policy independence.

He doesn’t mention the new missile deal with Poland so there’s less paper in the tiger than there was when he wrote this. Even so, the point about Europe acting as neutral broker rather than western ally is well taken, especially in light of Poland’s prime minister all but declaring yesterday that membership in NATO is worthless. Bolton’s seemingly strange advice, then, for dealing with Russia: NATOize Ukraine and Georgia as soon as possible (and of course elect John McCain). It’ll only work, he adds, if we have a heart-to-heart with Europe first about clarifying their priorities, but I can’t tell if he’s serious about that or not. I’ve always understood NATO to be less an actual military partnership than a means for giving the U.S. political cover in guaranteeing the security of friendly, strategically important nations. See, e.g., Afghanistan, a NATO operation where most of the fighting is done by the U.S., UK, and Canada. The idea that Europe might want to trade its mostly free ride for a genuine confrontation with Russia to rescue a few nations that used to be Soviet anyway seems unlikely to me and doubtless unlikely to Bolton too, which means his NATO suggestion here is just a way of committing U.S. forces to Ukraine’s and Georgia’s defense through a multilateral mechanism that avoids a direct one-to-one challenge to Moscow. Are we already past that point, though, thanks to the missile deal? If you missed it in Headlines earlier, here’s Russia’s reply to Poland. Translation: Watch out you don’t get nuked.

Meanwhile, Rice says Georgia’s signed a new ceasefire and that she’s been assured Russia will sign — although they haven’t yet. According to Fox News, the deal “would require Russia to withdraw its combat forces from Georgia but allow Russian peacekeepers to remain in South Ossetia and conduct limited patrols outside the region.” Exit question: What does “limited patrols” mean?

Update: A lot of people are sending around this old clip of The One explaining how he’s going to disarm America’s enemies with good vibes.

Update: Ah, here’s one of those “limited patrols” now.

There were no reports of hostilities in the eastern part of Georgia on Friday, but a column of at least a dozen armored vehicles moved Friday night from Gori toward Tbilisi, the closest the Russians have come to the Georgian capital.

The company sized unit took up a position in the village of Igoeti, about 15 miles from Tbilisi.

And Georgian troops in the western city of Kutaisi, some 50 miles from the Black Sea coast, said they were bracing as a Russian armored patrol advanced from the west.


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JFK really fucked us over when he cow-tailed to Kruschev in order to defuse the Cuban Missile Crisis. JFK, the faux Camelot hero, relinquished all of our missiles that we already had established in Turkey as well as providing Russia with some top secret information in order to get the Russians to stand down in Cuba. By relinquishing our missiles in Turkey, Kennedy abandoned Turkey as well as our own international treaty defense to the USSR.

During the subsequent decades, Turkey has found its way, of course, doing well for themselves while the US has not maintained the finest relations with Turkey, certainly never granting them “favored trade” status on the domestic front. Yet Turkey maintains rights over the necessary sea passages and territorial land for fly-over permission. You’d have thought that a bright US president would have already sought Turkey’s alliance. Turkey wanted into NATO and is now a NATO member. That membership needs clarification regarding shipping passage rights to allow the US permission cart blanch.

So get Georgia into NATO. Heighten Turkey’s obligation to allow (if not directly participate in) Georgia’s defense via other NATO members safe passage through Turkey’s territories.

And Georgia should maintain its territorial integrity without suffering amputation of former USSR strategic oil reserves that belong to Georgia, not Russia via a Russian puppet immigrant terror city-state. The final cost of Russia’s “peace keeping” invasion and attack of Georgia proper must be the relinquishing of all Russia’s expectations. To thieve and destroy “because they could” is neither acceptable NOR tolerable. “Possession is 9/10′s of the law” excuses either nothing or everything. What Russia did opens Russia’s vulnerability to suffer itself, tit for tat. Easy come, easy go. Give back to Georgia that which resides in Georgia. Study the Georgian map from the USSR days: was the rebel terror city-state in question labeled within Georgia then?

And this business of Russia threatening Poland must be countered directly by Western Europe’s countries. Our forces in Germany have their plate overflowing now. Of course we are obligated to Poland. But so are England, France and the rest of our “allies” in Europe. What good is the EU if it tolerates war against its members? Then the EU would only represent commerce with whoever is in power, regardless of all else.

As per those attacking John Bolton for expressing his critical thoughts for the public to share, whatever you’re dishing out to Bolton, dish out for yourself as well. Be as glad to hear his point of view as you are to share your own. Bolton’s much more aware of all the domestic and international intricacies involved in this mess than are any of us in this blog.

maverick muse on August 16, 2008 at 2:29 PM

“…Why do I think that if Bush issued a demarche calling for Russia to restrain itself in the region that the Bush haters would have accused him of causing the problem?
SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 2:00 PM

What the hell, did the satellites over the caucuses go dark so the analysts could watch the Olympic Games along with Putin and Bush?

It’s pretty damn hard to hide column[s] of armor ten[s] of mile[s] long. Maybe the Ruskies have developed a new camo paint!

Yah think Stevo?

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 2:31 PM

It’s pretty damn hard to hide column[s] of armor ten[s] of mile[s] long. Maybe the Ruskies have developed a new camo paint!

Tens of miles long?

If you read the accounts (link), we did indeed miss the movements.

Our satellites – and more important, analysts – were, according to this report, focused on the Middle East and other regions.

This may be fanny covering, admittedly.

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 2:38 PM

Nut grafs re our intelligence:

One problem in under-estimating the Russian response, another U.S. official said, was “a dearth of intelligence assets in the region.”

U.S. “national technical means,” the official name for spy satellites and other technology, are “pretty well consumed by Iraq, Afghanistan and now Pakistan,” the official said, and there was only limited monitoring of Russian military movements toward the Georgian border.

Additionally, the United States had lost access to vital information when Russia dropped out of the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty in December to protest U.S. plans to build missile defense sites in Europe.

Under the treaty, Russia had been required to exchange reports on troop, armor and aircraft deployments with the United States and other members on a monthly basis. But once Russia dropped out, that information was no longer available.

“I wouldn’t say we were blind,” the official said. “I would say that we mostly were focused elsewhere, unlike during the Cold War, when we’d see a single Soviet armor battalion move. So, yes, the size and scope of the Russian move has come as something of a surprise.”

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 2:40 PM

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 2:40 PM

You’re much smarter than that! They’re blowin’ smoke!

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 2:38 PM

Now you’re smokin’… CYA the name of the game is one and the same!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 3:09 PM

Now you’re smokin’… CYA the name of the game is one and the same!

Look, if all the facts that I use for my arguments are rejected by you but all the facts that you use must be accepted by me, there’s really no basis for a discussion.

You have no evidence that the link I provided is disinformation/CYA from the government.

None.

You automatically reject it (and given the leaking from this government, if it was CYA or lies, it’ll come out).

Frankly, that’s the approach of an ideologue. Facts don’t matter; ideology does.

That’s not for me but you’re welcome to it.

It’s a free country even if those damned neocons what to take it away (that’s sarcasm for the uninitiated).

Ciao.

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 3:18 PM

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 1:07 AM

Coldwarrior,

I would never use such a word to describe our military or its members. Their positive attitude is key to survival. My point for Terrye is that it is irresponsible for civilians to be blind followers of a man who demonstrates a pattern of harmful decisions and chaotic reasoning in so many ways that it is reasonable to question his competence. Any man who exhibits such a pattern, including insularity and mendacity towards his own men, should have been considered for impeachment by a sane Congress. Unfortunately, most of them are so much alike that it was never considered except for the most churlish partisan reasons. The rest were too busy porking out and war profiteering.

The president has the power of the pardon and other powers, no doubt. He could put a stop to a lot of non-sense being carried out by his own minions, but he refuses to do it. By refusing, he gives tacit approval to the Haditha persecutions and other horror stories.

Our corrupt leftist media is no better. They whine about “torture”, ignore real abuses, and set out to “get” any Republican president, seeking to relive the glory days of Watergate and CIA conspiracy-mongering. I spit on them for their lies and treason.

My loyalty is to the USA, not some hack political party blind to everything but self-aggrandizement.

For what it’s worth, here’s a couple of links to a blog from the Czech Republic about this issue. This one was posted before the Russian action, and the other is from earlier this Spring. The opinions of people from that part of the world are always more interesting to me as they are intimate in a way we cannot be about the meaning of fascism and communism.

Feedie on August 16, 2008 at 3:25 PM

Other than that alphie; the generous ad hominem attack is pretty much par for the course!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 1:29 PM

If Alfie wants to be a communist, that is his privilege in this free country, but his disparaging remarks about the young folks in our military, who protect his freedom, will not go unchallenged by me.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 3:29 PM

Johan,

Failure to worship U.S. military members as gods does not = “disparaging remarks.”

I just don’t think there’s anything special about them.

Try to understand that.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:01 PM

“In times of war, and not before,
God and the soldier men adore;
When the war is o’er and all things righted,
The Lord’s forgot and the soldier slighted.”

- Kipling “Tommy”

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM

SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 3:18 PM

Say what…?

This may be fanny covering, admittedly.
SteveMG on August 16, 2008 at 2:38 PM

You said it first Stevo..!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 4:35 PM

Pining for an Empire, cold?

Or just a war?

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:39 PM

I just don’t think there’s anything special about them.I guess some Americans see members of our military as deities that require worship

And some of us just see them as government employees who are driving us into bankruptcy with their bloated budgets.
Plenty of Americans perform risky jobs well without the need for constant adulation

The U.S. military can’t be as needy as you guys make them out to be…

He was supposed to keep us safe,
Try to understand that.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:01 PM

Do you mean like giving up there freedom and dying to protect those who will not or cannot protect themselves?

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 4:40 PM

There=their

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 4:42 PM

The U.S. military is still dropping bombs on Baghdad and Kabul, Johan.

You have a funny concept of “protection.”

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM

Good quote.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 4:46 PM

I just don’t think there’s anything special about them.
Try to understand that. alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:01 PM

alphie, please understand I have the greatest admiration and the deepest respect for our brave men and women in the military and the foreign services.

This holds special meaning and worthiness in times of war; remember they were not the one[s] to commit us to battle, yet they are those who must do or die.

It’s the soldiers oath!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 4:51 PM

If the only kind of communal service you admire is killing brown folks thousands of miles from America, J_, I pity you.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:52 PM

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 4:35 PM –

Fanny covering? Quite possible.

Poor mission management, poor tasking, poor operational directives or considerations of “what if’s.”

Could also be plausible.

NRO and CIA both have to deal with the loss of a lot of their former top people in imagery analysis. There was one huge attrition out of almost all the intel community from 1994 to 2001. After 2002, both outfits lost a good number of their best people nd specialists to man bureaucratic slots over at ODNI. Takes several years to get a imagery analyst and imagery manager up to speed…years.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul…you can’t do business with a sore Peter.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 4:56 PM

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM

Ain’t that the truth!

I like Kipling.

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 5:02 PM

J_, I pity you. alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:52 PM

Thanks for the concern, I’m certain I don’t deserve it!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Kipling wrote about British troops, J_.

Other than winning our freedom from Britain and crushing the traitorous South…what has the U.S. military really done that actually benefits America?

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM

If the only kind of communal service you admire is killing brown folks thousands of miles from America, J_, I pity you.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:52 PM

So the military is now racist? Those Krauts did not look brown.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM

They saved your precious Russia.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Other than winning our freedom from Britain and crushing the traitorous South…what has the U.S. military really done that actually benefits America?

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM

Muster up the limited courage you might possess, and walk up to a Marine or an American soldier and ask them that inane question directly to their face.

Get back with me on that, won’t you?

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 5:10 PM

If willingness to do violence makes a person a hero, cold, then our prisons are full of them…lucky us.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:14 PM

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 5:10 PM

My son would school him on the sacrifices of our military.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:14 PM

If willingness to do violence makes a person a hero, cold, then our prisons are full of them…lucky us.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Like most on the Left , and the lunatic fringe of society as well (oops, guess they are both the same) little alphie has no understanding that here is a wide chasm of difference between an armed thug and a soldier schooled in the operational arts.

Lil’ alph, aren’t you the one with the blog that tells us to put porta-potty’s in every neighborhood to save energy?

Your Mom called, says it is time for you to start emptying them.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 5:18 PM

I’m probably further to the right than you are, cold.

And I see when backed against a wall, you resort to name calling.

Typical.

You’re the type of person that gives the right a bad name.

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:20 PM

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:14 PM

There are bad people in this world who have got to be delt with by the military. Did it do any good to use diplomacy with Hitler, Tojo, Pol Pot, Stalin, ect ?…. Tyrants must be stopped.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:21 PM

About them porta-potty’s?

Look, alph, unless you are willing to provide substance (and I do not mean the fecal matter in your porta-potty’s,) to the conversation you are nothing but lightweight entertainment, if that.

Sharpshooting with memes and zingers certainly points to the relative level of your comprehension.

With that, I will revert back to blog rule #1…don’t feed the trolls.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 5:24 PM

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:20 PM

Maybe to the right of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:24 PM

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 4:56 PM

Hey cw, excuses, excuses we don’t want no damn excuses!

Eight years is an eternity in the military and intel services, unless things have changed? Computers have shortened my training time by a considerable measure and significantly improved productivity.

Yeah yeah,Poor Peter…
Then Paul has all the fun!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Kipling wrote about British troops, J_. alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM

Come on now, alphie,

Whoda thunk it?

Was it Rupert or Rudyard?

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 5:32 PM

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 5:26 PM –

Mike Hayden didn’t take over CIA until May ’06, and the NRO is staffed by DoD and CIA. Took Hayden about a year to get the place put back together, and about a year to try to get it up to speed. The Deutsch and Tenent years were not good years for both outfits…moral sucked and attrition was huge.

So, for argument’s sake…two years, not 8.

Now, take the average Army mech infantry battalion in 1972…then try to raise its combat readiness and effectiveness to combat ready level, up to standards of the present Army mech infantry unit we have today. A week? A month? A year? Then meld that battalion with other similar battalions, also going through a necessary upgrade in personnel and equipment. Then get that Brigade assembled on the flight line…ready to deploy at 90% effectiveness, with all equiupment, supplies and basic loads. Can ya do it in a year? Two?

Now…try to do the same but replace soldiers and NCO’s and subordinate officers with civilians…civil service employees…

Is the picture a bit more clear?

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 5:43 PM

The U.S. military is still dropping bombs on Baghdad and Kabul, Johan.

You have a funny concept of “protection.”

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM

You kill to islamic terrorist where they are; { Remember 9-11 and all of the other terrorist attacks?} I do.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:51 PM

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 5:51 PM –

“The U.S. military is still dropping bombs on Baghdad and Kabul, Johan” – alphie

Johan, seems our little nit (alph) hasn’t been able to drop his graphic novel/comic book long enough to even read a newspaper, let alone pay attention to the TV…haven’t been any bombing missions over Kabul and Baghdad for a long long time…a real long time.

Still? Still bombing? Sheeeesh…some of these children just have ADHD written all over them.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 5:56 PM

If the only kind of communal service you admire is killing brown folks thousands of miles from America, J_, I pity you.
alphie on August 16, 2008 at 4:52 PM

In my opinion as a man and as a Soldier, here’s what it means to “Support the Troops”. I’d love to know your thoughts.

Send_Me on August 16, 2008 at 5:57 PM

“…The Deutsch and Tenent years were not good years for both outfits…moral sucked and attrition was huge.

Your excuse #1

My question #1: Why then, wasn’t Tenent removed; instead of receiving the “Medal of Freedom”?

My question#2: Blackmail?

“…So, for argument’s sake…two years, not 8.

Your excuse #2

They turned my dumbe asse into an operator in less than two years at Fort Bragg, why not you smart folks near Washington?

My answer: No more damn excuses, accepted!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 6:04 PM

Puti Put Put Buddy Ole Boy!

We had down to The Ranch. I gave you respect to take back home. Why you now dissin the other sovereign heads of state? {you piece of crap [emp BR]

Branch Rickey on August 16, 2008 at 6:07 PM

In my opinion as a man and as a Soldier, here’s what it means to “Support the Troops”. I’d love to know your thoughts.

Send_Me on August 16, 2008 at 5:57 PM

Stay safe.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 6:12 PM

I’d love to know your thoughts.

Send_Me on August 16, 2008 at 5:57 PM

Anyone who does not understand that does not want to understand.

Johan Klaus on August 16, 2008 at 6:19 PM

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 6:04 PM –

Operator from Bragg? Worked with a bunch over the years, quite a few from DIA as well. Some very good, downright excellent (borrowed a few of these from time to time), some were loose cannons, a few had to be hand-held constantly. Some, God knows how they finished the program.

Why not the guys in DC? [You really do want me to eat up bandwidth, don't you?]

[For reasons other than retirements and attrition of experienced officers?] PC-ism. Had way too many hires in the ’90′s, hires of people who lacked skills, performance or experience. The Cold War was over, so the emphasis changed…more towards teaching folks how to sell Amway, the ops generalist, with very little emphasis given to in- depth area training. Can’t learn that in a book, or in a class at Perry. From what I have gleaned from former colleagues, the tech side took hits, too. I can’t speak to the analytical side.

But, to compound the felony, many of these guys (the Deutsch newbies) are now filling mid-level and qa few upper level slots. Those of us oldies that hadn’t retired or left yet, those of us over GS-15, ended up over at ODNI after 2002. Pushing paper, playing politics, holding on till something better comes along for the most part.

Just saying that yes, the spokesman may indeed be playing CYA. Or there could be very real, very impactful operational causes (not excuses) for not being up to speed.

I just get a bit tired of the lame old meme…

If there is a real foul-up, I much perefer it be handled internally, and swiftly and fixes being made. Not a big fan of the “press” doing the finger pointing, no critique just criticism, and no idea how to fix the problem…just playing gotcha.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 7:19 PM

I see a lot more dissident opinion tolerated on conservative blogs these days. Is this some sort of prima facia evidence production/self regulation ahead of the congressional action to come? It feels like it to me.

Fairness doctrine is going to be the new forced integration. And if blogging remains anonymous it’s even more dangerous.

pc on August 16, 2008 at 8:05 PM

Dissident opinion tolerated on Conservative blogs? Pretty much has been the standard for several years now. Self regulation has nothing to do with it for most Conservative blogs. Now, over in the Left corner…dissidence has never been tolerated.

Those fairness doctrine folks just don’t understand that not all opinions are equal and not all facts can be arranged by political ideology. If one has a message that resounds with a part or the whole of a population, great. If one has a point of view or message that resounds with no one…are they going to be made an “equal” voice?

They can voice it. But the First Amendment says nothing about other people having to listen to it.

Gonna be one hell of an outcry if the Fairness Doctrine is imposed on the internet.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 8:19 PM

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 7:19 PM
“…Operator from Bragg? Worked with a bunch over the years, quite a few from DIA as well. Some very good, downright excellent (borrowed a few of these from time to time), some were loose cannons,

“Loose cannons”… yeah, I know what you mean. Kept coffee cans of ears in their “Ruck’s” and wouldn’t sleep in a high rise without their “rope kit”.

Hey what can I say? That’s what extended periods of high stress activity elicit from a human being…?

They sent some of us back time after time, year after year. I’m very concerned for the mental stability of the men and women returning from multiple missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I don’t believe we have any conception of the personal problems that repetitive reassignment to combat zones is going to have for them and their families. The continuing costs to society and the VA are almost unimaginable.

We used to refer to you guys and gals as “control” or “asset” what the hell did you call us? Or shouldn’t I ask?

Actually in SE Asia all the field personnel my teams were associated with were male. Although I ran into a Pilatus, P6 turbo pilot once; that was to “die for”. She might have been French, underarm hair?

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 8:42 PM

We used to refer to you guys and gals as “control” or “asset” what the hell did you call us? Or shouldn’t I ask?

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 8:42 PM –

The good ones? Called them by their rank. Or their first name. The bad ones? Ya don’t want to know.

Have a nice souvenir sitting on my desk. A periscope from one of the first Taliban tanks nailed in Afghanistan. From the commander cupola. Couldn’t go out and play for that one, retired and being a single parent to a couple teens. The message was clear when I received this unique little gift. One of the ops said, “If ya had been there, this would have been your kill.”

The good ones? Friends. Will always be.

(I expect that you’ve seen or encountered a few of our douche-bags along the way.)

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 9:14 PM

The good ones? Called them by their rank. Or their first name. The bad ones? Ya don’t want to know. coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 9:14 PM

That’s interesting. It our case it depended on the Group SOP or the individual Team Leader, normally an Army Captain.

The general order was no saluting, no mention of rank, just first or last name.

Your folks weren’t around much, usually very welcome, because they often carried the “The Bag” with the indigenous payroll and the moolah for the local chow we ate and paid for local intel, transport and training.

Hadda luv you!

J_Gocht on August 16, 2008 at 10:00 PM

Here’s a report of a US airsatrike on Kabul just last week, Johan:

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jfBqpm9-bNHnStkVNbHYsD44DZOw

Put the right-wing comic books down and tune in some real news sources…

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 10:25 PM

40 miles from Kabul.

coldwarrior on August 16, 2008 at 10:35 PM

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 10:25 PM

I’m still interested in knowing your thoughts on what I wrote.

Send_Me on August 17, 2008 at 12:12 AM

It made me sad, send_me.

There aren’t any more honorable missions for our troops.

I wish I could join in keeping the illusion alive, but I just can’t.

Right-wing fantasies are simply too dangerous to America these days.

alphie on August 17, 2008 at 12:26 AM

>
There aren’t any more honorable missions for our troops.

I wish I could join in keeping the illusion alive, but I just can’t.

Right-wing fantasies are simply too dangerous to America these days.

alphie on August 17, 2008 at 12:26 AM

So protecting you citizens is not honorable?

Johan Klaus on August 17, 2008 at 1:46 AM

alphie on August 17, 2008 at 12:26 AM

My grandson just returned, wounded, from Afghanistan and my son has not yet returned. Thank God that they, understand the need to stop the islamic terrorist and unselfishly sacrifice their freedom and lives to protect this country, that you think does not need to be protected.
You and many other Americans do not seem to appreciate their sacrifices. They do their job regardless. We have not had another attack on our soil, due to the hard work of our intelligence services and the military. Maybe someday you will appreciate the scrifices of these fine folks. Maybe not.

Johan Klaus on August 17, 2008 at 2:03 AM

I see a lot more dissident opinion tolerated on conservative blogs these days. Is this some sort of prima facia evidence production/self regulation ahead of the congressional action to come? It feels like it to me.

Fairness doctrine is going to be the new forced integration. And if blogging remains anonymous it’s even more dangerous.

pc on August 16, 2008 at 8:05 PM

I guess that if the fairness doctrine gets imposed, that MSM will be required to give unbiased reports for a change. Maybe? Possible? Probable? Lots o luck.

Johan Klaus on August 17, 2008 at 2:21 AM

And if blogging remains anonymous it’s even more dangerous.

pc on August 16, 2008 at 8:05 PM

You mean like the kos and the phony soldiers, ect.?

Johan Klaus on August 17, 2008 at 2:25 AM

Other than winning our freedom from Britain and crushing the traitorous South…what has the U.S. military really done that actually benefits America?

alphie on August 16, 2008 at 5:07 PM

I disagree. Britain should have crushed the traitorous colonies. You are quite right, though, freedom means independence or autonomy, not liberalism. Therefore, the US never liberates when it forces liberalism on unwilling victims.

GermanAtheist on August 17, 2008 at 3:07 AM

It made me sad, send_me.
There aren’t any more honorable missions for our troops.
alphie on August 17, 2008 at 12:26 AM

Three questions: 1. Why did it make you sad, specifically?
2. What mission would be “honorable” for our troops, now that we have our independence from Britain?
3. Would you advocate every Soldier putting down their arms, wherever they stand, and come home?

Send_Me on August 17, 2008 at 12:29 PM

One good thing that may come out of this? We now have a legit excuse to absolutely clean house at the CIA and State Dept at all levels. I mean fire everyone. Especially get the lefties out of there. Some even need to go to jail. I know Pres. Bush would not have the stomach for that. He still thinks the “New Tone” is working for him!
Does anyone think McCain might have the gonads for that task? DD

Darvin Dowdy on August 18, 2008 at 8:58 AM

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