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Showdown: Bush sends “humanitarian” aid to Georgia as Russians advance; Update: “This is not 1968,” says Condi; Update: Russians camp along the road to Tbilisi

posted at 3:51 pm on August 13, 2008 by Allahpundit
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Airlift 2008?

President Bush said Wednesday that the Pentagon had begun a “vigorous and ongoing” humanitarian mission to ease the suffering in Georgia, and that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would travel to France and then to Georgia to work for a settlement of the crisis…

Mr. Bush said that a transport plane with medical supplies was already on its way to Georgia, and that American air and naval forces would carry out the aid mission. And he said pointedly that Russia must not interfere with aid arriving in Georgia by air, land or water

However, minutes after Mr. Bush’s comments, President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia characterized the import of the American aid as “definitely an American military presence” and called it a “turning point.”…

“What I expected specifically from America was to secure our airport and to secure our seaports,” he went on, concluding that the American presence would do so. “The main thing now is that the Georgian Tbilisi airport will be permanently under control.”

Saakashvili is spinning hard to make this look like a U.S. cavalry charge, going so far as to call it a “military-humanitarian operation” and claiming that Georgian ports will now be under U.S. “control.” The Pentagon quickly denied it, although given Bush’s warning to Russia not to interfere with aid, things are going to get mighty dicey if they move on Tbilisi and take the airport. Charles Johnson says he’s hearing news reports that the Russian army’s within 15 miles of the city; I haven’t seen anything like that, although I did see earlier that Russia started moving towards the city before veering off in another direction. As of this morning, Russian troops occupied Gori and others were crossing into South Ossetia; Human Rights Watch claims they’re burning villages in the territory populated by ethnic Georgians.

My reaction to Bush’s announcement was the same as Ace’s, and doubtless what Saakashvili has in mind: They’re going to insert a token American force, a la South Korea, as a “tripwire” that the Russians dare not cross lest it provoke a wider war. Per the emphasis on the mission being purely humanitarian, it sounds like Bush is eager to douse that speculation — but needless to say, if U.S. troops do get caught in the crossfire, it’s anyone’s guess what happens. If you believe the Times, the U.S. brought this all on itself by sending “mixed messages” to Saakashvili that don’t really sound all that mixed. Publicly the administration’s shown consistent solidarity, and privately they’ve made it abundantly clear that he shouldn’t do anything nutty like, er, invade South Ossetia. Assuming that’s true, he’s playing dumb, going on CNN this morning to say he appreciated McCain’s encouraging words yesterday but that words don’t mean much vis-a-vis those all-important deeds they’re counting on.

Well, he’s got some deeds now. Stand by for updates as the Cold War II brinksmanship escalates. Exit quotation: “We understand that this current Georgian leadership is a special project of the United States, but one day the United States will have to choose between defending its prestige over a virtual project or real partnership which requires joint action.”

Update: This warrants the always rare double exit quotation. Sit back, close your eyes, and meditate on this while you run through your mental list of despots, terrorists, and assorted other cretins that Russia’s been selling weapons to for decades:

“Bush’s speech said nothing of how Georgia was armed all these years, including by the United States,” [Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov] said, adding, “We have more than once warned our partners that this is a dangerous game.”

Update: Well, we’re now in a position where one or the other side is going to have to call the other’s bluff or lose face.

Just the position you want to be in with two superpowers armed to the teeth with nukes.

“This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia where Russia can threaten a neighbor, occupy a capital, overthrow a government and get away with it,” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said. “Things have changed.”

Update: Putin’s just taunting them now.

“Come with us, beauty, we’re going to Tbilisi!” one of the soldiers bellowed at a photographer in a sleeveless shirt along the road. Other troops grinned and brandished their weapons, and one hung his bare feet out the back of a truck. Another, a machine gunner riding atop an armored vehicle, wore a bandanna and a black T-shirt with the word “Russia” emblazoned in the red, blue and white colors of the national flag.

Asked from the side of the road, the soldiers shouted that their destination was Tbilisi — “With no detours,” one said. But then they veered abruptly into a field about an hour’s drive from the capital and camped conspicuously within sight of the road before the sun went down.

The message was hard to miss: The Russian military is still the landlord in swaths of Georgia, and its forces remain in easy striking distance of the country’s capital.


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Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:00 PM

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:02 PM

Should Powell be nominated VP candidate by acclaim, it would certainly change the dynamics of this election. It would also be the only viable way Obama could pull a lot of independents in behind him.

coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 5:03 PM

How many remember the “better red than dead chant” from our friends on the left?
tarpon on August 13, 2008 at 5:00 PM

To which you have to pose Ayn Rand’s wonderful reply, “Better make the reds dead.”

emailnuevo on August 13, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:00 PM

Im just in shock..I cant believe he would endorse him.

becki51758 on August 13, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Does anybody know all the words to Kumbaya? And how many verses there are?

I’m expecting some midnight pot parties peace vigils and I want to be prepared.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:04 PM

You know it was interesting in listening to Condi’s press conference and this reporter who sounded like a Russian kept asking her if the US had warned Georgia not to RESPOND to the provocations of SO and had they ignored her instructions?

Texas Gal on August 13, 2008 at 5:04 PM

In a battle of wits/wills, much of the starting point in negotiations is determined by the oppositions thoughts about you. The world knows Obama is a lightweight appeaser. They’d roll over him.

marklmail on August 13, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Asked from the side of the road, the soldiers shouted that their destination was Tbilisi — “With no detours,” one said. But then they veered abruptly into a field about an hour’s drive from the capital and camped conspicuously within sight of the road before the sun went down.

The Russians don’t have very good night capability.

bnelson44 on August 13, 2008 at 5:04 PM

Your endgame is:

Putin backs down here. Waits until obama is elected in November. In January, he tries again, knowing obama won’t do squat.

lorien1973 on August 13, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Who thinks this is all the result of the Democrats and their antics destroying Bush and America’s position in the world?

I think it’s because of the Russian aid to Iran and Syria, but I’m still trying to figure out all the details. It’s a Russian response to Israel, but I don’t know if the Russians ended up delivering the message they intended.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:05 PM

There’s no news in Powell endorsing Obama. Not a shred of surprise, except for the extremely naive.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

If the land war in Georgia so far seems to be going decidedly in favor of the Russian army and navy, the Georgians seem to be racking up a lopsided score with their air defenses.

Over the weekend, the Russians made a successful advance on land through South Ossetia to the outskirts of the Georgian east-west transportation hub of Gori. There also was a one-sided naval battle – that resulted in the sinking of a Georgian gunboat – in the Black Sea off the coast of the second breakaway enclave of Abkhazia.

However, Georgian air defenses appear to be taking a steady toll on Russian aircraft. Russia has admitted to losing a total of four aircraft (the Georgians claim 10) in the conflict. So far they’ve admitted to the destruction of three Su-25 Frogfoot strike aircraft and a Tu-22M3 Backfire bomber that was flying a reconnaissance mission.

Photos from the combat area show the wreck of the Tu-22 and a Frogfoot as well as a picture of the Backfire pilot in a Georgian hospital. The pilot was Col. Igor Zinov, a 50 year-old Tu-22M3 instructor pilot stationed at the Russian Flight Test Center at Akhtubinsk.

“Ergo, the Russians are using their A-Team, as expected,” a U.S. analyst says.

Other analysts say the Georgians are probably operating the SA-11 Buk-M1 (low-to-high altitude) and the (low-to-medium altitude) Tor-1M mobile air defense missile systems.

“The Russians have gone to great lengths to try and implicate the Ukraine in the Russian Air Force losses, even going as far as to suggest that an SA-5 sold to the Georgians by the Ukraine was responsible for the Backfire loss,” a second U.S. analyst says. “That’s clearly not the case, but shows the Russian attempt to bring the Ukraine into the periphery of this event by implication, and to attempt to explain how one of their premier long-range attack assets could have been shot down so easily.

“The Russian press has been making lots of noise about the BUK and TOR systems, and I would say that the BUK is the most likely culprit for all of these aircraft losses,” the analyst says. “If so, it points out a major flaw in the Russian plan – not gaining [and] maintaining pure air superiority [and] dominance over the battlespace by taking out the Georgian air defenses and air defense network before they went into the conflict.”

Russian-built and designed air defenses are apparently exploitable, as was shown in the Israeli Air Force’s total shut down of Syrian air defenses prior to bombing a suspected nuclear site. But Russia apparently has yet to apply the digital keys to unlock the Georgians’ network.

pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

ninjapirate on August 13, 2008 at 5:03 PM

Didn’t I say not to respond with Soviet propaganda? I thought I did. Especially if you’re incapable of expressing yourself without insults or profanity.

MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

BobMbx: Russia is not the Soviets. It has tons of money to buy and build weaponry because of the run up in oil. And Putin has been polishing up his forces for nearly a decade. They aren’t as decrepit and poorly supplied as you think they are. They also still have a lot of submarines that could raise some hell with our Navy worldwide and you forget their surrogates in Cuba and Venezuela. This could get real nasty and with our Clintonized forces, we may not be in much better shape than the Bear.

fleiter on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Armchair strategist here:
I’m pretty sure all but one of the 82nd’s BCTs is back stateside. And I think the aims of this operation is totally different than what Iraq (or Iran) would be. The Georgian army would do most of the boot-work. They would need anti-air, anti-tank and anti-artillery support. Interdiction type stuff.

If we can assume that the Naval and air assets can GET TO the battlespace, then the outcome seems a bit more positive. I think all that hinges on Turkey, really.

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Saakhisvili cleaning up problem areas within his own national borders is a pretext for war? So, with this logic, if we start rounding up and deporting illegals in the US, we are committing an act of war?

Russia has been actively making noise about this for over three years. Did Saakishvili step on it? Yes. But t he condiitons had been established so that anything he did would be seen as a pretext for the Russians to strike Georgia. The only Saakishvili action the Russians would approve of would be his turning over the Georgian government to persons of Russian choosing. And this would be preferred why?

coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 5:08 PM

Powell is an idiot, reflection on Bush he was Sec. of State.

jp on August 13, 2008 at 5:09 PM

This whole confrontation has a disturbing The Day After quality to it.

“This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia where Russia can threaten a neighbor, occupy a capital, overthrow a government and get away with it,” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said. “Things have changed.”

Awfully strong words Condi. You’d better be prepared to back them up.

Mike Honcho on August 13, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Notice how lost Obama seems to be in all this? The 3AM call came, and Obambi was out surfing.

Who stands for freedom and liberty in the world now?

tarpon on August 13, 2008 at 5:00 PM

He’s also in a bit of a bind. He knows that going all political on Bush’s actions right now is a loser, and he doesn’t want to offend the Kremlin movers and shakers due to similar philosophy. So, body surfing is about all he can do,..well, and charge people volunteer time for tickets to his coronation speech, but I’m sure the lackeys do that for him. He’s probably thankful he has an excuse to not make a fool of himself again.

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:09 PM

BO is getting out his map and finding out where all this unpleasantness is….

d1carter on August 13, 2008 at 5:09 PM

Those Russian troops had best stay clear of those Americans. Anything could happen.

Terrye on August 13, 2008 at 5:10 PM

d1carter on August 13, 2008 at 5:09 PM –

Better e-mail him. Its a little South of the Carolinas and a bit north of Florida. Happy to help. /s

coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 5:11 PM

There’s no news in Powell endorsing Obama. Not a shred of surprise, except for the extremely naive.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Correct. But my hunch is that he didn’t accept Bambi’s offer of VP and that this was offered in compensation. Powell had nothing to lose.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:11 PM

Who thinks this is all the result of the Democrats and their antics destroying Bush and America’s position in the world?

It’s even simpler than that. This is the beginning of the Oil Wars. Keep an eye on India and China. Russia is a net exporter of oil, now making a move to seize the Caspian Sea oil pipeline (which would give Russia control of over 50% of Europes’ energy supply). China and India are “black holes” when it comes to energy. They can’t suck it in fast enough. They won’t sit idly by and let the Ruskies run the table on oil. If I was Iran, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, etc… I’d be making sure I knew who and where my friends are, and start inviting them over for some sleep-overs.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

I doubt the US can support a war on 3 fronts. Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Russia.

offroadaz on August 13, 2008 at 4:02 PM

Leave Iraq. They have got hundreds of thousands of men under arms now and no one is invading them.

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

JiangxiDad, Georgia has Iran as a neighbor, to the South. The Russians want that line open.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

Cunning and ruthless criminals run the country, with nuclear weapons and a newly-rebuilt ( and unproven ) military as its disposal

Janos Hunyadi on August 13, 2008 at 4:57 PM

Newly rebuilt military, yes, but using the same antiquated (even if “newly built”) Soviet crap aircraft/tanks, and the same ill-trained Conscript troops.

Too bad the Georgians didn’t get the Merkavas. We know how Merkava/T-72 match-ups end.

pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 5:14 PM

Ninjapirate-

Would YOU be able to hold off when a foreign power is actively undermining you in your own country? When operatives are trying to stir the pot up? Would be hard to sit on my hands all the time.

Besides, Russia put so much material there that it’s obvious no matter what Georgia did, we’d be at this point sooner or later. I say sooner; kick the Commie bastards asses back to Moscow.

As many have said, Russia really is moving towards imperialism/communism. Candidates we don’t support Putin and tow the line are threatened, have their houses burned down, etc. Censorship is rampant (or you die); many previously elected officials (mayors for example) are appointed now.

Once a fucking KGB die-hard, always a fucking KGB die-hard; Putin just has a different tailor now.

linlithgow on August 13, 2008 at 5:16 PM

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

There’s no news in Powell endorsing Obama. Not a shred of surprise, except for the extremely naive.

Well, I’m sorely disappointed. I often proudly quote Powell’s sentiment, that someone’s racism isn’t his problem, it’s THEIR problem. Positively Thatcheresque, and that is a high compliment. Man, woman, black, white, couldn’t care less. Now he’s going for Obama? Very disappointing. What can I say. He’s going for identity politics over principle.

Paul-Cincy on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

I doubt the US can support a war on 3 fronts. Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Russia.

offroadaz on August 13, 2008 at 4:02 PM

.
I don’t doubt we could do it – but we wouldn’t be doing most of the fighting anyway. And, from the looks of it, Georgia is not doing too badly – the Russians would not be backing off of their demands if things were going so well.

Think_b4_speaking on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Another interesting thing my wife (who grew up in the USSR) brought up – most Russians still in Russia (they tend to change pretty quick when they leave) are very racist. Getting called out by Condi Rice is going to be really infuriating for them.

ErikTheRed on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

I must confess, this is an itch I’ve been wanting to scratch for about 30 years now.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 4:53 PM

A lot of people would probably be very surprised at how prevalent and strong that desire is among a certain age group.

Oldnuke on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Come on, folks. Language, already. Show a little decorum.

MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Leave Iraq. They have got hundreds of thousands of men under arms now and no one is invading them.

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

See map I linked for JiangxiDad. You might be glad so many troops don’t have such a long way from Iraq to Georgia, though maps are deceiving. It’s still difficult, and Georgia is a very mountainous land.

Georgia is situated at the dividing line of Asia and Europe, is an ancient country of rugged mountains and very determined people.

It was annexed by Russia in 1801, regained its sovereignty in 1918, and then suffered through 70 years of Communist rule and suppression, by the Russian devils, finally declaring its independence from Russia in 1991.

It didn’t last long at all.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:18 PM

“We shall overcome our principles one day”. That’s today.

Paul-Cincy on August 13, 2008 at 5:18 PM

President Saakashvili says he speaks to McCain several times a day.

amerpundit on August 13, 2008 at 4:11 PM

How much military wherewithall can McCain send him? Twice what Obama can?

“#uck” both McCain and Obama right now.

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

You also have to factor in tactics and training. Not to mention, maintenance and repair logistics.

While Merkava’s would be nice, I’d rather them employ an army they are familiar with and have the expertise in maintaining.

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

[Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM]

Are you suggesting that the Russkies just need Georgia out of the way because Georgians would rat out their actions? Or are you saying the Armenians or Azers, or both, are in bed with the Ruskies and will let them complete the land connection to Iran without saying a word?

Dusty on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

A land line? Why? Will they interpose themselves militarily in any Iran-Israel war? Also, are you forgetting Armenia and Azerbaijan?

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

Hmm the EU seems rather quiet aside from Sarkozy.

ronsfi on August 13, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Also, did I just read that Condi Rice is heading down to Georgia?!?!

That’s ballsy, all the way around. I think she’s got that anti-red itch also.

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Also, did I just read that Condi Rice is heading down to Georgia?!?!

That’s ballsy, all the way around. I think she’s got that anti-red itch also.

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:21 PM

Yeah, and hope like hell that Russia doesn’t decide to start bombing to attempt an assassination before they get there.

MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Russia is not the Soviets. It has tons of money to buy and build weaponry because of the run up in oil. And Putin has been polishing up his forces for nearly a decade. They aren’t as decrepit and poorly supplied as you think they are. They also still have a lot of submarines that could raise some hell with our Navy worldwide and you forget their surrogates in Cuba and Venezuela. This could get real nasty and with our Clintonized forces, we may not be in much better shape than the Bear.

fleiter on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

You’ll just have to trust me that the Ruskies do not pose a naval threat to anyone. There is a lot of cash in Russia, I agree, but it ain’t going to industry or infrastructure. Did you know that Putin is personally worth nearly a Trillion dollars? That’s a T. Virtually everyone within his circle of friends are billionaires.

Cuba….Venezuela? Bring it on. Venezuela will suffer an economic collapse within a week after we establish a naval blockade of it’s oil exports. WTF can Cuba do? Invade? Are you out of your mind? Those “invaders” would like nothing better than a free boat ride to Florida. They’ve been trying to get there since the early 1960’s.

I can polish a turd all day long, but it’s still a turd.

And yes, they are as decrepit as I think they are.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Leave Iraq. They have got hundreds of thousands of men under arms now and no one is invading them.

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

Why not Afghanistan? Let other parts of NATO carry the main load there for awhile. Maybe then the Italian and German contingents will have to get involved in the fighting. Keep our UAV elements there for those high quality moments in Pakistan. Most of the Old Europe NATO countries have been loafing their way through. Time for them to tote that barge and lift that bale.

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:23 PM

Very disappointing. What can I say. He’s going for identity politics over principle.

Paul-Cincy on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

He used the system, and intends to use the next one. He will not have a system left to use, and no principles to respect either. I have a huge chapter for my book on him. He sold out to big money and that’s what it’s all about. It has nothing to do with Bush, though that’s his cover. It’s older than Obama’s rise. Don’t worry about him at all. Insignificant in the scheme of things. Those who kick the cow who feeds them have a special place waiting for them, here on earth.

JiangxiDad, yes, they are very aware/involved in Iran, and wanted to make it known. To them Georigia is a grasshopper. The bigger picture is the U.S./Russia relations, and what’s next.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:24 PM

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:18 PM

Most post from an earlier thread (for which I was mocked, too.)

Next stop: Azerbaijan (and/or Armenia)

They are clearing a path to Iran. Gog and Magog are aligning. Get ready. It’s going to get really messy.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 9:49 AM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

Once a f-ing KGB die-hard, always a f-ing KGB die-hard; Putin just has a different tailor now.

Fixed, it. Sorry. Usually I censor them.

linlithgow on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

They also still have a lot of submarines that could raise some hell with our Navy worldwide

fleiter on August 13, 2008 at 5:06 PM

Just curious as to why you think this to be the case.

Oldnuke on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

A lot of people would probably be very surprised at how prevalent and strong that desire is among a certain age group.

Oldnuke on August 13, 2008 at 5:17 PM

Old Nuke…let’s see if this makes sense to you:

SSBN 629 Blue. MT2/SS.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

JiangxiDad, Georgia has Iran as a neighbor, to the South. The Russians want that line open.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:13 PM

I believe Armenia and Azerbaijan are between Georgia and Iran. Armenia is Christian and Azerbaijan is Islamic. Am I wrong?

silverfox on August 13, 2008 at 5:26 PM

The Russians have completely destroyed any goodwill left in the West for their Regime.

ronsfi on August 13, 2008 at 5:26 PM

It’s a Russian response to Israel, but I don’t know if the Russians ended up delivering the message they intended.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:05 PM

Could very well be, since we know Israel was selling weapons to Georgia as our proxy.

But you can’t help but conclude all the donks attacks on Bush, and the dumb……. Democrat nominee has to figure into the equation. Russians get polls as well.

WAR FOR OIL and fuelling the Soviet Union v.2 is the goal. The old Soviet Union didn’t fail, it just ran out of money.

tarpon on August 13, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Yeah, and hope like hell that Russia doesn’t decide to start bombing to attempt an assassination before they get there.

MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 5:22 PM

An overt assassination attempt on the head US Ambassador would be a very bad thing for the russians. Even an “accidental” bombing would be nuts. It would almost give the US the “political capitol” to commit just about anything short of nukes to help out Georgia.

Of course, lets hope it doesn’t come to that. I hope and pray for the safety of our people and our allies.

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:27 PM

Dusty on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

Have no clue what those two will do, or anyone. It’s all about the Russians reasserting themselves. Putin is in full control, loaded with billions from oil, and getting only more so, using the transition of power here. The new guy is just his front puppy, feeding him billions in the bachground.

The real dummies are the Russian people lemmings.

Yeah, change is coming, but not the kind Obama had in mind.

Many countries will be drawn in before this is settled. The WoT will be fough in between, in addition to.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:27 PM

Why does Putin not want Obama for president? There’s an obvious answer.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:28 PM

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM –

What would Daniel Boone do?

There’s a bunch of us in that certain age group…some older and wiser, some younger (like me) still learning…

coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 5:28 PM

A land line? Why? Will they interpose themselves militarily in any Iran-Israel war? Also, are you forgetting Armenia and Azerbaijan?

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:19 PM

Not through Georgia. Not because of Georgia but because of Turkey. They’re (more or less) on our side, and it’s a little known fact that they have one of the strongest militaries in the world (second strongest in NATO after the US), and unlike Russia’s, its strength doesn’t come from just numbers, but technology as well. I reckon they could spank Russia all the way to Siberia if it came down to it.

Darth Executor on August 13, 2008 at 5:28 PM

An overt assassination attempt on the head US Ambassador would be a very bad thing for the russians. Even an “accidental” bombing would be nuts. It would almost give the US the “political capitol” to commit just about anything short of nukes to help out Georgia.

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:27 PM

…but is Russia counting on the USA’s impotence? Every move they make to which we do not fiercely respond makes them seem stronger.

MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 5:29 PM

Can we depose of Saakashvili ourselves? This guy has to go.

ninjapirate on August 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM

If America deposes him, it deposes it’s soul right along with him.

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:30 PM

Why does Putin not want Obama for president?

Makes me wonder if that “itch” doesn’t go both ways.

Matticus Finch on August 13, 2008 at 5:31 PM

The real dummies are the Russian people lemmings.

And how do you categorize Obama voters? Are they not cut from the same cloth?

I saw a Chinese lady this AM say that the media should stop picking on the Chinese Communists for faking the opening ceremony with a fraud singer — The government Communists meant well and no harm was done, besides it looked great. And isn’t that the point of morons in slave states?

tarpon on August 13, 2008 at 5:31 PM

The bigger picture is the U.S./Russia relations, and what’s next.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:24 PM

The next event of significance on the world scene is Iran. The loss of Iran and Syria, following Iraq, would hurt Russia, insofar as it strengthens us. Are they going to sit back passively while we do what we want in their side yard, while China runs rings around them in Asia? I find it hard to understand events in Georgia in and of themselves, without relating them to the bigger picture. Georgia is a message, a test, a warning, a laboratory, a response, a chess move.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:31 PM

CNN has a fascinating interview with Saakashvili where he very passionately describes the ideals of Democracy. A must see.

ronsfi on August 13, 2008 at 5:31 PM

Would Russia try an annexation of Georgia for “security” purposes?

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:32 PM

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:30 PM –

If we were to depose him…there wouldn’t be a nation on earth that would give us the time of day…except, maybe Russia, on the way in.

coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Why does Putin not want Obama for president? There’s an obvious answer.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:28 PM

O.K., I give. Tell us.

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

I did not see your comment until you reposted it. By all means, I did not copy your thought. Also, I sure hope that you don’t mind being “mocked” on HA. That is often a compliment.

silverfox, you’re not wrong. Those two for Russia are just 2 more grasshoppers.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM

I believe Armenia and Azerbaijan are between Georgia and Iran. Armenia is Christian and Azerbaijan is Islamic. Am I wrong?

silverfox on August 13, 2008 at 5:26 PM

Iran has a direct border with Georgia.

Darth Executor on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM

If America deposes him, it deposes it’s soul right along with him.

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:30 PM

I agree

bnelson44 on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM

How “decrepit” the Russia military is doesn’t matter a bit if they’re the only ones willing to act, Bob.

alphie on August 13, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

I don’t believe Russia will come to the aid of Iran or Syria.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Google map is your friend.

rockhauler on August 13, 2008 at 5:36 PM

Iran has a direct border with Georgia.

Darth Executor on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM

Where please.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:36 PM

Iran has a direct border with Georgia.

Darth Executor on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM

On this one, my prieten, you will stand corrected. The two countries are between Iran and Georgia, but Russia wouldn’t care. They’d trample over those two, instantly, if it came down to it, literally, as they’d want to go down to Iran.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:37 PM

Breaking on LGF:

Abkhazia in Russian Hands, Tbilisi in Danger
Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 2:08:51 pm PST

Fox News reporters on the ground in Georgia are now saying that Russian troops are moving in on Tbilisi (Steve Harrigan said Russian forces were at one point within 12 miles of the city), and that Abkhazia is under the control of Russian-backed separatists.

pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 5:39 PM

This is all anyone needs to know, to know what to do. Well, not the specifics but the general idea.

In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bitches, barbarians, and chronic drunks.
- George S. Patton

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Iran has a direct border with Georgia.

Darth Executor on August 13, 2008 at 5:33 PM

.
No, it doesn’t. One has to go through Armenia or Azerbaijan to get to Iran.

Think_b4_speaking on August 13, 2008 at 5:40 PM

How “decrepit” the Russia military is doesn’t matter a bit if they’re the only ones willing to act, Bob.

alphie on August 13, 2008 at 5:34 PM

Humanitarian aid. Tripwire. Israel. Iran. Mean anything to you?

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:40 PM

This is all anyone needs to know, to know what to do. Well, not the specifics but the general idea.

In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-#itches, barbarians, and chronic drunks.
- George S. Patton

MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Old Nuke…let’s see if this makes sense to you:

SSBN 629 Blue. MT2/SS.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

Yup, boomer, blue crew, and what I’d call a GM(T)second class IIRC.

How bout this.

MINSY, Vallejo CA NavNucPwrScl class 65-1
A1W prototype NRTS Idaho
DLG(N) 25 before it became a CG
MM2 Made MM1 but declined to extend for 45 days in order to accept.

Oh, did I mention I was a skimmer?

I was also qualified as the Emergency Safing Procedures guy for the big bullets. You know the ones that went on ASROC with a preset-depth or on the terrier.

Did I pass?

Oldnuke on August 13, 2008 at 5:40 PM

The Russians will not buy this ‘meals on wheels’ posture….

Starlink on August 13, 2008 at 5:36 PM

We have no clue what is going on in background. Putin gets it when Bush talks to him directly.

The ‘humanitarian’ actions are just a portal.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Does anyone remember this thread on HotAir?

With open hostilities between the US and Russia, and chaos in Pakistan following the impeachment of Musharraf, we have no resupply route into Afghanistan.

rockhauler on August 13, 2008 at 5:42 PM

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM

Not so much aid, but more like partnerships. There’s a new Axis of Evil forming: Russia, Iran, and China. These three are becoming very intertwined. None of them have the West’s interests in mind, but all of the have expansionist goals.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Hussein thought Russia was invading Georgia and send a strong message to Putin to leave Atlanta alone.

Hello?

Hello?

Is this thing on?

madmonkphotog on August 13, 2008 at 5:43 PM

Old Nuke…let’s see if this makes sense to you:

SSBN 629 Blue. MT2/SS.

BobMbx on August 13, 2008 at 5:25 PM

Yup, boomer, blue crew, and what I’d call a GM(T)second class IIRC.

How bout this.

MINSY, Vallejo CA NavNucPwrScl class 65-1
A1W prototype NRTS Idaho
DLG(N) 25 before it became a CG
MM2 Made MM1 but declined to extend for 45 days in order to accept.

Oh, did I mention I was a skimmer?

I was also qualified as the Emergency Safing Procedures guy for the big bullets. You know the ones that went on ASROC with a preset-depth or on the terrier.

Did I pass?

Oldnuke on August 13, 2008 at 5:40 PM

Are you two ’speaking’ Russian?
/

carbon_footprint on August 13, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Darth Executor on August 13, 2008 at 5:28 PM

We are approaching this event from different directions. You see it as a more or less traditional Russian power grab, which it may be. I believe Russia first took Georgia in the 1700’s. In that respect, Russia may have Turkey to fear, as they have for about 600 years.

I don’t. I see it as a strategic move meant to challenge Israel and the US re. Iran and oil, ($) and having nothing really to do with territory and empire. (Now that may end up involving Azerbaijan in light of its Caspian oil, although then Turkey would still be appeased as the pipeline concludes in Cehan.)

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 5:44 PM

There’s a new Axis of Evil forming: Russia, Iran, and China. These three are becoming very intertwined. None of them have the West’s interests in mind, but all of the have expansionist goals.

Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 5:42 PM

Indeed. Add Chavez to the brew and it’s lethal.

How nice that Putin is raining on the China prong of the axis’ parade Olympics.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:44 PM

We’re not gonna fight Russia, a cap.

They might actually shoot back.

Something the U.S. military hasn’t experienced in 60+ years…

And doesn’t McCain look insane/corrupt in all this.

How embarrassing for the hold-your-nose righties.

alphie on August 13, 2008 at 5:45 PM

O.K., I give. Tell us.

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:32 PM

Because he wants somebody fight. He’s not into fluff.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:46 PM

Starlink on August 13, 2008 at 5:36 PM

Dunno. Dubya has put a lot of chips on the table for credibility with the other New Europe countries. Pretty hard for him to blink now without the U.S. becoming a total laughingstock and really screwing up the WOT. I don’t think he’s gonna let that happen.

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:47 PM

Remember, don’t feed the trolls.

silverfox on August 13, 2008 at 5:48 PM

alphie, you’re lighter than a feather. I kind of enjoy it when you float in, drop your light poo, and then disappear to watch. It’s really very harmless, and charming.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:48 PM

Because he wants somebody fight. He’s not into fluff.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:46 PM

So, he wants a military engagement with us?

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:48 PM

carbon_footprint on August 13, 2008 at 5:44 PM

Nope, much more complex than Russian.

Oldnuke on August 13, 2008 at 5:49 PM

So, he wants a military engagement with us?

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:48 PM

With anyone. It’s in his nature. It’s his only raison d’être.

The real turkeys/lemmings are the Russian people, for letting him. They had a chance at freedom, independence and self-determination, and kicked it in favor of potatoes and vodka, and rallies. Now it will be too late. He will aim to restore their ‘pride’.

freevillage, alphie and others, no need to remind me that it’s America’s fault.

Entelechy on August 13, 2008 at 5:51 PM

I finally read up on that Classical Values article
http://europebusines.blogspot.com/2008/08/massive-us-naval-armada-heads-for-iran.html

I did not see this.
This changes everything.
I wonder if the Georgian move into SO was actually a very shred attempt to spring a trap that wasn’t ready. A counter move by the west to Russia’s counter move when (if?) we blockade Iran.

Seriously, Holy $h!t.

I’m shocked that French planes are on an American Carrier as well. And that they came willingly!

Kai on August 13, 2008 at 5:52 PM

So, he wants a military engagement with us?

a capella on August 13, 2008 at 5:48 PM

This is what I think. The timing of it all; the Olympics, a heated US election year, Bush going out. I think this was planned for a very long time and he wants a fight. He wants WW3, pulling Iran and Israel into it as well.

carbon_footprint on August 13, 2008 at 5:52 PM

I get a chuckle from all the tough talkin’ chickenhwaks here, too, ent.

It’s one thing to roll into a few third world countries and take on some goatherders.

Russia, OTOH, will bite.

alphie on August 13, 2008 at 5:53 PM

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