Russia violating the cease-fire?
posted at 9:30 am on August 13, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
Share on Facebook | regular view
Hours after publicly agreeing to a cease-fire with Georgia and supposedly pulling their troops back to their peacekeeping stations, Russian tanks continued to advance and fire on Gori, which has already taken the brunt of the fighting. Western journalists confirmed fresh smoke rising from an abandoned military base, and dozens of Russian tanks going in the wrong direction for a retreat:
Russian tanks have moved into the central Georgian city of Gori in apparent violation of a new ceasefire agreement, according to Georgian officials and eyewitnesses who reported black smoke rising over the town.
Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili charged that as many as 50 tanks had rolled into town and were “attacking Gori.” Russian military officials denied any fresh incursion.
Eyewitnesses, including western journalists, said they saw at least 10 Russian tanks in the city. It was not clear what they were targeting, but smoke was rising from the general vicinity of a recently built military base.
Constructed to NATO standards, the base had been abandoned by Georgian troops on Monday when they pulled back to Tbilisi to bolster defenses around the capital.
The cease-fire keeps Georgia from maneuvering its military within its own territory. In return, the Russians agreed to withdraw back to their peacekeeping positions with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It appears that the Russians want to destroy any facilities Georgia in tactically advantageous positions for their own defense before honoring the cease-fire.
The terms of the agreement aren’t all bad for either nation. Georgia didn’t get the unqualified recognition it wanted for its sovereignty in the two disputed provinces, but Russia agreed to international peacekeeping forces rather than remaining in place. That is a rather large concession, considering the military stranglehold Moscow had on Tbilisi, and apparently still has.
Why did the Russians back off? Peter Finn’s excellent analysis in the Washington Post gets it right. The Russian action threatened its economic interests, and as the rhetoric ramped up from the US and especially from Eastern Europe, Moscow began to have second thoughts. They have gone much farther than the US could ever have in demonstrating why Poland, the Czech Republic, and other states along Russia’s western frontier would need a strong missile defense. Five presidents of Eastern European nations traveled to Tbilisi this week in a very public rebuke to Vladimir Putin and support for Mikheil Saakashvili.
Russia failed in another, entirely predictable manner as well. If they wanted to depose Saakashvili, their efforts failed utterly. The Georgian president now enjoys massive popularity for defending his nation and refusing to knuckle under to Moscow. Politically, he is stronger than ever, and Putin just demonstrated to an entire new generation of Georgians why they need the West and why they can’t trust the Russians.
Later, though, Saakashvili will have to answer for his stumble into Russia’s hands with his attack on the South Ossetia capital of Tskhinvali. Putin and Medvedev clearly wanted a reason to attack Georgia, and their support for the separatists in these regions are well known. Why give them the cassus belli they sought with an attack on a city, rather than just strikes on separatist positions as they had conducted before?
Nevertheless, the Russians are once again trying to provoke Georgia into open warfare with their violation of the cease-fire in Gori. The world needs to keep holding Moscow accountable, and Western journalists need to keep reporting the truth in Georgia.
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »
Russia behaving normally.
And people are surprised?
MarkTheGreat on August 13, 2008 at 9:32 AM
How soon till the Europeans start complaining that we aren’t intervening? Also, where are the mass demonstrations of our moral superiors?
ronsfi on August 13, 2008 at 9:35 AM
Putin has given all of Europe a very clear example of why all of Europe must stand up to Russia. Naked aggression unchecked gives way to more naked aggression, never less.
Putin’s weakest link is his failing economy. Putin needs Europe far more than Europe needs Putin. This is our strength, Europe’s strength, and we should not be afraid to use it against him.
The sacrifices of the Georgian people have to be made more worthy in our response.
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 9:40 AM
The cease-fire keeps Georgia from maneuvering its military within its own territory. In return, the Russians agreed to withdraw back to their peacekeeping positions with South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Did the Georgians get suckered by THAT old trick? Fracking Russians have no intention of stopping, this is just a ploy to get THEM to stop fighting BACK.
Tony737 on August 13, 2008 at 9:40 AM
This article from the Ukraine is interesting reading.
http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-266886.html
Linh_My on August 13, 2008 at 9:41 AM
The Georgian president now enjoys massive popularity for defending his nation and refusing to knuckle under to Moscow.
And he is admired here in the U.S. too. We love an underdog, especially when wrongly attacked by a ‘former’ enemy of ours.
Tony737 on August 13, 2008 at 9:43 AM
If only Spring were approaching, and not Fall. Again, Winter saves the Russians.
JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 9:43 AM
world has its head in the sand, america on pace to take a weak footing and Russia is naturally taking advantage.
jp on August 13, 2008 at 9:43 AM
This is the first thing about this that has made sense. Russians..cease fire? We’re just reloading pal. Typical.
austinnelly on August 13, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Cindy Sheehan, where be ye? Go lie down in front of some Rooskie tanks over yonder, will ya?
Akzed on August 13, 2008 at 9:45 AM
Yeah who didn’t see that comin?
Akzed on August 13, 2008 at 9:46 AM
How soon till the Europeans start complaining that we aren’t intervening? – Ron
TOUCHDOOOOOWWWWNNNNN!!
Now going for the extra point … Also, where are the mass demonstrations of our moral superiors? – Ron
It’s up ….. AND IT’S GOOOOOD! Straight through the uprights!
Tony737 on August 13, 2008 at 9:46 AM
She just acquired the signatures necessary to get on the ballot against Pelosi. I believe she has a couple of hundred thousand dollars vs. Pelosi’s millions.
JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 9:46 AM
the ‘anti-war’ groups like Code Pink and the Paultard right are of course quiet. confirming they aren’t anti-war at all, just anti-american
jp on August 13, 2008 at 9:47 AM
…you mean like the “peacekeeping forces” in South Ossetia prior to this chain of events?
It’s a military occupation either way when dealing with Russia. Call it what you want, but Georgia has just lost all sovereignty. Putin’s not letting them get away now that he’s managed to invade another nation without a whit of intervention from the West. Like many have said, Ukraine is next. Poland is likely as well, considering recent “warnings”.
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 9:48 AM
Aside from that, what’s the real difference between them?
Akzed on August 13, 2008 at 9:49 AM
JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 9:43 AM
Not this time. As far as I understand it there are three high overland passes (one in Abkhazia one in S. Ossetia and another) that get snowed in making resupply impossible overland once winter rolls around. They’ll need to resupply via air and by sea if they leave any troops in Georgia proper.
elduende on August 13, 2008 at 9:49 AM
JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 9:43 AM –
This time, perhaps Winter may work to our advantage. The rise in poverty in Russia is faster than expected over the past few years. The separation of the wealthy “siloviki” and their mafia supporters from the rest of Russia has never been more sharp, more distinct. Moscow is now the most expensive city in the world, and for the first time, Russians, ordinary Russians, are migrating from Moscow.
An across the board Western economic squeeze now, before the onset of winter, could well have Putin hard by the short hairs…would give a whole new meaning to Decembrists as the Russian people storm the Kremlin and oust Putin and his “siloviki” comrades.
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Next stop: Azerbaijan (and/or Armenia)
They are clearing a path to Iran. Gog and Magog are aligning. Get ready. It’s going to get really messy.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Abkhazian fighters plant flag inside Georgia
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 9:50 AM
OT: Paultard’s wife is ill
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 9:51 AM
Don’t worry. CNN and Reuters can ’shop’ the photo images and get rid of it.
whitetop on August 13, 2008 at 9:52 AM
Oh puleease.
Akzed on August 13, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Gee, a certain group,
that will remain nameless, uses that tactic often. What are their names?Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Anyone who is actually surprised by this please speak up.
Hello? Anyone?
*taps mic* Is this thing on?
Vic on August 13, 2008 at 9:54 AM
Wait a minute!!!! I thought Obama ordered the cease fire to begin yesterday. No one violates an order from the messiah and gets away with it.
sdd on August 13, 2008 at 9:57 AM
Although this is far from over, it looks like Georgia might be able to pull of a “Hezbollah Victory” (ie – declared the victor by just surviving).
BohicaTwentyTwo on August 13, 2008 at 9:58 AM
your linked story is a year old, however I think I saw something about this again recently.
back to my point, tempted to go over to the lew rockwell blog and see what idiocy he’s speaking of, if any, related to Russia
jp on August 13, 2008 at 9:59 AM
and we twiddle our thumbs – gutless.
Onager on August 13, 2008 at 10:00 AM
The Russians are still attacking? No surprise there.
Will Kaine come out and give Obama all the “credit” for this?
forest on August 13, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Um. . . the US contends that the missile shield is not for protection from Russia (unless we are lying too – like we can’t believe Russia might with their troops in harms way). But of course when WE lie, it’s OK, but when Russia lies, it shows our superiority to them.
I disagree completely. Russia showed Georgia that if they want to mess with the bear, they get the claws – not just growls that America is famous for. Russia showed that they don’t much care about ‘international pressure’ and will do pretty much what they want. They will have the support of China and Iran even if the rest of the Frances of the world support the paper tiger US position.
I think Russia accomplished everything it wanted here. It established its dominance over the region militarily, and showed that it would use its force without regard to what the rest of the world thinks.
I don’t support Russia, but I do appreciate their ‘a little less conversation’ approach to diplomacy and wish America would follow suit – especially in regard to Iran (killing US troops) and Pakistan (killing US troops).
ThackerAgency on August 13, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Probably Supporting it like the rest of her leftist ilk…
Digg – 92% of CNN readers – Russia’s actions in Georgia justified
Skywise on August 13, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Oops! Sorry. She’s had her third surgery this week. Hopefully, “Luvie” will get well soon. For now, I think the Ronulan will remain quiet.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on August 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM
exactly
trailortrash on August 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM
People say that one of the reasons Europe won’t stand up to Russia is that they are afraid of having their energy supplies cut off.
This sword cuts both ways though.
How long would Russia last without the money it earns selling energy to Europe?
MarkTheGreat on August 13, 2008 at 10:06 AM
just went over to rockwells blog, he’s in agreement with the leftist of course on this. Its our fault Russia is taking over Georgia because we supported their NATO membership after telling Russia we wouldn’t according to them. And not only that, this is all cover to make a war on the region to justify a hit against Iran by the end of the Bush Term..
those Evil
Russians, err Neoconsjp on August 13, 2008 at 10:06 AM
Please excuse my geographical idiocy, but to roll tanks into Georgia, don’t they first need to go right by… Chechnya? Why haven’t we heard anything from these yahoos?
Rhinoboy on August 13, 2008 at 10:07 AM
you have got to be kidding
trailortrash on August 13, 2008 at 10:07 AM
From Answers dot com.
The Bear will be the Bear, Imperialist, expansive and self righteous but this much more than a land conquest.
This is Vlad Putin as Vlad Tepes.
Speakup on August 13, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Your posts come across as so knowledgeable that I hesitate to ask but does Russia really need Europe more than Europe needs Russia? The reason I’m asking is that I saw a report that Russia is supplying the majority of oil for Europe. I guess I’m just wondering if you think Europe will inconvenience themselves for Georgia? Previous actions by Europe make me wonder.
TooTall on August 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM
[coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 9:40 AM]
Agreed. It’s good to see the Europeans, especially the Eastern counries taking a leadership position in their own backyard. Since much of the effort to stop Russia’s invasion had to be moral strength and persuasion in the public opinion sphere, their voices ad the more collectively the better, will always be clearer and stronger than ours. In that vein, our job has to be standing with them, not leading them and backing them up 100%.
Dusty on August 13, 2008 at 10:09 AM
All the more reason for Putin to divert the attention of the masses by concocting a crisis in the near abroad.
MarkTheGreat on August 13, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Direct result of CNNs coverage (copied from headlines because I’m lazy).
“CNNs been giving this a lot of coverage, but it’s been overall horrible.
Yesterday the Russian ambassador was on and Malveauz (sp?) complete let him reshape the inverview, by not challenging his claim that Georgia started the whole thing. The interview was pathetic.
This morning they had their reporter from Moscow on for several minutes, basically repeating Russian talking points as fact. She was talking about how difficult it was for anyone to be sure that Russian troops were still moving (no S***, you’re in Moscow) and that we can’t blame anything on Russia until we’re sure.”
BadgerHawk on August 13, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Russia should only have issue with Georgia membership to NATO if in fact they intend to conquer them and the other Soviet bloc states again, period. Unless you want to argue that Georgia was planning on invading Russia, which only an idiot would do.
Sir Winston Churchill said long ago: “The belief that security can be obtained by throwing a small state to the wolves is a fatal delusion.”
jp on August 13, 2008 at 10:10 AM
I’m pretty sure that Russia not only controls its own oil supply, but would have support of Iran should they want a supply disruption. Also, Russia and China are both going to be pals for a while. The west will never be able to isolate Russia from China. Just like the west couldn’t isolate Iran from Russia.
ThackerAgency on August 13, 2008 at 10:12 AM
For the umpteenth thousandth time, Georgia didn’t “mess with the bear”. South Ossetia baited them into reacting to violence, they did, and Russia launched its trap. Casus belli, all the way to Tbilisi.
This repeated fluff is the equivalent of someone saying “That’s what the Sudetenland gets when they “mess with Germany”.
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 10:12 AM
Couldn’t give him a better moniker.
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 10:14 AM
I am shocked, I am shocked, I say. Wouldn’t Russian honor require that they wait at least a full day?
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:14 AM
Last I had read the place was pretty well pacified, most as a result of Grozny being flattened.
The Russians sure do have a flexible standard when it comes to breakaway regions within your borders…
BadgerHawk on August 13, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Totally non-responsive to the point I made. You can’t eat oil.
MarkTheGreat on August 13, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Of course Georgia messed with the bear.
The bear wanted something, and Georgia had the audacity to say no.
MarkTheGreat on August 13, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s first order of business likely will be to try to thwart Ukraine’s bid to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
“The Moscow authorities will use this opportunity to remind Ukraine of the damages of allying itself with NATO,” said Geoffrey Smith at Renaissance Capital investment bank in Kiev.
The U.S. has long seen Georgia and Ukraine as counterweights to Russia’s influence in the region. Opposition leaders in the two countries came to power after U.S.-backed popular protests in 2003 and 2004. Their ascension advanced an American strategy of expanding NATO to include both countries and securing energy routes from the Caspian Sea that bypass Russia. The BP Plc-led Baku- Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline to Turkey runs through Georgia.
The future effectiveness of that policy is now in doubt, with Georgia’s U.S.-educated President Mikheil Saakashvili, 40, weakened by a five-day blitz that his American patrons were powerless to halt.
“Georgia will be enormously more careful in its actions in the future, and much less confident of its relationship with the United States,” said U.S.-based geopolitical advisory group Stratfor in a research note.
“Russia may find it convenient to raise the level of tension with Ukraine in the run-up to the December NATO review,” Citigroup Inc.’s London-based David Lubin and Ali Al- Eyd wrote in a note to clients. “If the conflict with Russia decelerates or reverses Georgia’s integration with the West, a similar fate could also affect Ukraine.”
“A substantial part of our military power has been destroyed,” said Georgian National Security Council chief Kakha Lomaia. “However, we did preserve the core of our army, and have managed to regroup it close to the capital.”
An airbase in Senaki was destroyed and three Georgian ships blown up in the Black Sea port of Poti, he said.
A month ago, about 1,000 U.S. soldiers joined 600 Georgians and 100 from Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Armenia in joint exercises at the Vaziani military base near Tbilisi. Russia repeatedly bombed the base during this month’s war.
“The American role in the region has been weakened,” Jan Techau, a European and security affairs analyst at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin, said in a telephone interview. “It’s a reassertion of Russia’s dominant role in the region.”
- Bloomberg
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:15 AM
You can’t get worked up over Thacker. He’s had a Russian thrill since this whole mess started.
Great analogy at the end of your comment, btw.
BadgerHawk on August 13, 2008 at 10:17 AM
TooTall on August 13, 2008 at 10:08 AM –
Money. The free flow of capital. The ability to procure goods. Russia, alone, has the resources, of course, but not the means (technologies, expertise, etc.) to turn those resources efficiently into goods to feed, cloth, and all the rest for the Russian people. Much of the current capital invested in Russia or otherwise flowing into Russia ends up mostly in the hands (and bank accounts) of a very very small power-elite, loyal to Putin. Stop that free flow of capital, the money, even for a short while, and a balance will be tilted within the Russian economy. There is an economic aparthied in Moscow today, thanks to Putin…and the lower class is well over half, perhaps two-thirds, of the present population.
From what I have read over the years, Sarkozy understands economics and business and finance a lot better than any of his predecessors. His going to Moscow, well, there may be a subtext to his public diplomacy, otherwise, why would Putin and Medvedev grant Sarkozy an audience at the moment they were consolidating forces for a final push on Tblisi?
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 10:18 AM
It’s mind-melting that on a conservative site there are so many people in favor of the Evil Empire invading and taking over a free democratic nation. Oh, and the repeated protests that “Well, what Russia did was excessive, BUT…” are worthless when you defend the whole damn action.
There actions are potentially leading to another large-scale war, and there are people here on the side of one of our oldest enemies. It’s startling.
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 10:23 AM
*These actions
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 10:23 AM
We need to get boots on the ground in Georgia- NOW
The 82nd Airborne could be landing in 18 hours if given the order.
pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 10:23 AM
Thanks.
Rhinoboy on August 13, 2008 at 10:24 AM
pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 10:23 AM –
Would make a wonderful movie plot.
But, sending in the 82nd at this time, would undercut a larger effort on the part of Europe to take care of one of their own. Looking over the European press early this morning, Georgia has become a cause celebre .
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 10:26 AM
The Belmont Club has good analysis on the cyberwar conducted by Russia against Georgia beginning before military action.http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/ It puts the lie to Russia’s claims of intervention to “save” South Ossetians.
a capella on August 13, 2008 at 10:27 AM
links?
would be nice for the euro’s to start making more noise about this.
trailortrash on August 13, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Then do you feel that removing Russia from the G8 is a viable response?
TooTall on August 13, 2008 at 10:29 AM
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 10:23 AM
VDH pretty much summed up the “yeah, BUT” part of this thing at the Corner. Its a sad day for Liberty, a great age to be a Villian.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzNjNGU4MmQ4OTUxOWRhYmNkOTcyYjA1ZTk2NjJmMDU=
jp on August 13, 2008 at 10:29 AM
this is the fruits of all the liberal bs by the Dems and Media over the years after Iraq, almost all substanceless yet emotional, which then filtered over into letting the far-right, paultard/bircher/Buchanan crowd get a voice and make ill-founded points.
like I said, its a great age to be a Villian. Putin knows this on some level, heck all he has to do is turn to CNN and watch American Useful idiots do much of the work for him.
jp on August 13, 2008 at 10:32 AM
When reached for comment B. HUSSEIN said the UN SECURITY COUNCIL needs to intervene… When reminded that RUSSIA has veto power, he was quoted as saying “NEVERMIND”…
pueblo1032 on August 13, 2008 at 10:33 AM
I’m getting tired of your glib “hollywood movie” put-downs.
I served in the Marines, buddy.
pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Mess with the bear doesn’t mean they started it, or are wrong. It means they live next to a bear’s den, and have to be cognizant of that. They have to outsmart that terrible animal, or they get swatted at best, killed at worst. When my relatives got out of that area of the world and found peace and prosperity in America, they were getting away from that bear. It will always be so over there. Russia has controlled most of the caucuses for longer than we’ve been a nation. And often those peoples turned towards Russia for help against the Turk and the Persian. It’s a dangerous place, full of dangerous neighbors, and will remain so.
JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 10:36 AM
What I would still like to know is why didn’t the C-17’s that took about 2,000 Georgian troops back home from the center of the universe Iraq have a large supply of anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles going along for the ride.
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Being a cause celebre is not always all that it’s cracked up to be. Princess Diana is a cause celebre.
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:41 AM
I dunno, is using a squirt gun on a house fire a viable response?
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM
I haven’t commented on this issue yet, so I’ll do it here:
We should make this Afghanistan II and flood Georgia with stinger missles to spank the Russians again and cost them every peice of flying or rolling machinery they send in.
urbancenturion on August 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM
…and if you disagree with me, you sir are worse than Hitler.
urbancenturion on August 13, 2008 at 10:45 AM
Im not surprised that Russia violated a ceasefire. Russia is the same old Russia they always have been..I never trusted them.
I have heard the Georgian army have left the tanks, with ammo, in the middle of the streets. They have removed their uniforms also. They are totally not matched to fight the Russian military.
This is being blamed on Bush…as is everything. btw..he’ll be giving an address soon about this.
becki51758 on August 13, 2008 at 10:45 AM
pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 10:35 AM –
I served in the Army. (As if that makes a difference in how one’s analysis is acceptable or not.)
Sending in a division into Georgia, and the required logistics train it would need, would be a major drain on our present armed forces. It would also have an impact here at home. And to what end? Jumping into combat without a clear definition of role and mission is not wise. Jumping into a combat zone in order to “send a message” is a mis-use of the 82nd. Unless we can define a national strategy, in conjunction with an overall NATO strategy, the tactical employment of the 82nd today, or 18 hours from now, would serve what purpose? Ratchet up the Russian response? Get a brigade or more of our troops put in a vise in a very small place? Render the 82nd impotent to be used in an adjacent theater if things do get ratched up?
But, more important, we are witness to something we have been waiting for since 1945…or since the creation of NATO. Europeans stepping up to the plate on their own, united, to deal with a threat to their overall existence. Sure, they are making half-steps, but these half-steps are their half-steps. And Old Europe may be learning a very quick lesson from New Europe in the process.
My response was not a glib hollywood movie put down. It was an atempt to put a rational and realistic face on a terrible situation that most Americans have yet to acknowledge let alone understand.
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 10:47 AM
EstebanTsar Putin I: It is a beautiful day… for a Reign of *terror*!MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:48 AM
3
does Georgia have Nukes? we could supply them with Nuke Technology like we did India not long ago.
jp on August 13, 2008 at 10:49 AM
maybe not boots on the ground but supplies and aid would at least be more supportive then talk alone.
trailortrash on August 13, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Nope. Not being an economist I’m just trying to figure out if removing Russia from the G8 is the equivalent of your analogy.
TooTall on August 13, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Was it CNN and American Useful idiots who FORGOT to put anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles in those C-17’s bringing the Georgian troops back from Iraq to Georgia to defend their country?
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Deploy an understrenghted BCT for 30 days; call them “humanitarian workers”. We’d be able to support them with C-17s out of Incirlik Turkey for that time, though they’ll have to live a spartan lifestyle while there.
A little time on the ground would show firm US support for Georgia, and provide them with a shield against Russian bombing.
If things do get ratched up, it’ll be the AF that does most of the interdiction anyway.
PS maybe we can get their reservists to wear the USMC Digital Cammies correctly.
TheEJS on August 13, 2008 at 10:56 AM
TheEJS on August 13, 2008 at 10:56 AM –
Makes good sense. It does. Engineers, ordnance disposal, civil affairs, med units…would indeed give us a footprint, a necessary very public footprint, with probable better results than sending in combat units.
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 11:02 AM
I am still not convinced the Russians aren’t headed for Tiblisi and a regime change.
Putting US troops in would quash this. Even Putin would not cross that line.
pseudonominus on August 13, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Pretty significant in the larger picture. We’ve carried their load for too long. Time for them to make some choices. The other benefit is the clarity with which Putin’s intentions have been defined. Old Europe can’t pretend anymore.
a capella on August 13, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Removing Russia from the G8 will not likely have so much effect now that Russia is becoming an oil and natural gas rich country.
Russia’s foreign reserves climb to $406.6 billion
We on the other had have become a shop-till-you-drop debtor nation.
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 11:03 AM
Sad, isn’t it?
BadgerHawk on August 13, 2008 at 11:08 AM
US military training teams in Tblisi are standing by to begin humanitarian efforts.
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?article=56724
coldwarrior on August 13, 2008 at 11:10 AM
You keep harping on this, but all that ordnance would accomplish would be to draw the thing out into chronicity. Georgia isn’t going to run Russia off with Stingers in armed conflict. Russia needs to be presented with an united resistance of New and Old Europe. They have made a good start if Old Europe will grow some balls.
a capella on August 13, 2008 at 11:11 AM
MB4:
Who is your favorite chief?
JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 11:13 AM
bush just said, condi rice is heading to france and then tablisi and we are starting a humanitarian aid and a plane is heading there now with aid.
Thank God, took to long to start but it is starting finaly.
trailortrash on August 13, 2008 at 11:13 AM
Bush just announced C-17s are inbound to Georgia, US Navy is on the way to Poti (read: Russian blockade over).
TheEJS on August 13, 2008 at 11:13 AM
There is no contradiction between walking and chewing gum at the same time. Do you think that Bush offered the Georgians anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles and they said “Oh please no”?
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Great. Humanitarian aid is codespeak for “not our fight”.
Real cojones there, George. Show how much we defend democracy.
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 11:17 AM
Chief Joseph.
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 11:17 AM
and this is pretty much my point a capella. Why should WE be responsible? Shouldn’t the nations closest to the conflict care the most? Why doesn’t Turkey get in on a side to help? Why does it have to be us with our money, our troops, our equipment? Send France, Spain, the UK. . . let them pay for it in lives and money.
ThackerAgency on August 13, 2008 at 11:19 AM
The devil is in the details, but that sounds GOOD to me!
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 11:19 AM
Thanks. You and coldwarrior have certainly given me something to think about.
TooTall on August 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM
. . . again with the ‘defend democracy’ crap. Russia is a democracy. If I was Russian I’d vote for Putin. Putin chose a successor much like Bush supports McCain. . . and then his successor was elected. ‘democracy’ doesn’t mean freedom. Iran votes too. Capitalism means freedom.
ThackerAgency on August 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 11:17 AM
I’m not quite there yet. Depends on what naval units Bush has told SecDef Gates to send. If it’s carrier, we mean it. If it’s HMS Combat Failboat, I mean, USNS Comfort, then I’ll agree with you.
TheEJS on August 13, 2008 at 11:21 AM
MadisonConservative on August 13, 2008 at 11:17 AM
No Brother this is a fine move. This leaves the ball in the Russian court as to whether they want to tangle with us while we guarantee Georgian sovereignty. In effect this inserts us into the country putting us in a position to exert leverage later to make sure the Russians leave Georgia.
elduende on August 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I don’t disagree with you entirely but Georgia had 2,000 troops in Iraq. They have about 5,000,000 people. We have about 300,000,000, so in proportion to their population they had the equivalent of our having 120,000 troops in Iraq, almost as many as we have. Even never minding so many other matters, we owe them, big time.
MB4 on August 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM
Comment pages: 1 2 Next »