ummm, if your going to bother to send troops, their job should be to complete the mission… “staying alive” is not a mission. In fact, that is the mentality that got us where we were in Iraq before the surge…

BadBrad on August 13, 2008 at 7:39 AM

The point I made is simple.
There are ways to complete the mission and do it with a higher chance of survival for our troops.The Soldier is many times put in more dangerous positions because of politics and “political correctness”.The fear of the media putting pictures of civilian casualties on TV or the front page or saying that we are using to much force (like they did recently against Israel in Lebanon) has brought ridiculous ROE and strategy based more on political appeasement instead of winning AND bringing as many Soldiers
home as possible.

I understand that part of winning involves killing more of them than us, soooo…..the more Soldiers that make it back the better(I am going to go out on a limb and say our Soldiers probably think it is pretty important to make it back also),this is pretty much my point.

Do you understand BradBrad?

Incredible! George S Patton’s New Speech-Iraq & modern world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WynLgJFBxSs

Oh and BTW, I find it ironic that Putie-Putin’s aggression here is imperialistic and oil-grabbing but the left is silent about it all. They know that it’s Dubya’s fault–all of it.

I tried to post a silly joke about Bob Dole and that pill that begins with a ‘V’, and no matter how I phrased it, it would not post.

You mean “V‍iag‍ra”? Sounds like the problem some people have getting “soci‍alist” to post. I can handle that one too. “Cia‍lis”.
Now, for the trifecta… “Lev‍itra”.

You do realize, of course, that Russia and Iran are both ‘democracies’. Cappice?

Since WHEN??? They are both an -ism, you DIG? One’s under Communism, the other Islamism…that’s exactly my point…you don’t get this stuff.

Nobody has EVER fought a battle for me, and I don’t expect them to. I’m not a minority victim like the rest of the world according to America.

Wow. Just. Wow. You believe in the sheep vs. wolf theory, don’t you? Ever heard of the sheepdog? There are a few of them, in my opinion. You don’t have to believe that, just because you’re not a predator that you’re automatically prey, dude. Get a grip.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but America has lots of communist tendencies. Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Bear Stearns bail-out, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Housing Bail out, Oil ‘windfall profits’ tax.

And as for Jihadism, that’s coming in the form of creeping sharia in America.

You must be one of the Catholics I’ve offended with my comments concerning their Church doctrine that I disagree with. I’m sorry I hurt your feelings. . . maybe you can get a big bad ole government organization to come to your aide to protect you from my evilness.

ThackerAgency on August 12, 2008 at 11:02 PM

LOLs!!! Where to start with you….HAH!!

A. Those programs are Socialist, not Communitst…but I gie you an A for effort (well, okay, maybe a C).

B. We DON’T HAVE a Windfall Profits Tax. Do you live in the ’70s? ‘Cause that’s the last time it was tried…and it failed. Miserably.

C. Shar’ia is trying to creep, but it too is failing. We’re not the UK or Canada, dude. I recommend you read this article from Jeff Breinholt, who studied whether Shar’ia was creeping into our legal system:Islam in American Courts

D. As far as being one of those Catholics you claim to have “offended” – 1. you couldn’t be further from the truth, and 2. don’t give yourself that much credit about your “talents” in the art of offending or evil-doing (it is to laugh!).

But I certainly got some yuckles today!

Why don’t people fear us?

If a giant is frightened by its own shadow,
it is the laughing stock of the least among creatures.

If a giant loathes its own reflection and would rather commit suicide than recognize its innate virtue, there is nothing to fear of a giant that defeats itself before ever thinking clearly to defend either itself or its friends.

But any analogy is only relevant where applicable.

And the majority of Americans, witnessed as recently as 9/11/01, do NOT loath America, but in fact LOVE AMERICA. Today’s enlistment and re-enlistment of our finest patriots and troops sworn to protect and defend our Constitution prove that we are not totally corrupted by Marx or his illicit progeny, aka “progressives”, “compassionate” socialists.

So the analogies above only apply to the loser ubertards. In their progressive advance, they create their own demise.

Irony from God is seen as manna from heaven.
Thank God for all good things, big and small.
Remember Aesop’s Fable where a mouse liberated the lion.

Pray for the Georgian People. Wish them well.
Unite in Spirit for Justice and Liberty.
Lend your hearts for a moment, at least.
God Save Freedom!
May God Bless What Is Good,
To Be Wise and To Prevail.

The Russian Bear has awoken from hibernation.

She is wary, wise, strong and HUNGRY.

“Pretty please with sugar on top” will only wet her appetite.

Rod on August 13, 2008 at 8:48 AM

Yep. He is something of an enigma to me, and I too spent some time skipping his comments, but overall I appreciate his intelligence and usual wit, if not always his point of view.

I don’t recognize the MB4 we’ve been seeing the past few days, and hope to see the old one around soon.

JiangxiDad on August 13, 2008 at 8:04 AM

Have you been reading his posts for some time … more than just the past few days?

Just curious. I began skipping over his comments and replies to them months ago. Seems they always lead to tedious “you’re an idiot – no, you’re an idiot” arguments – just like here.

Barack Obama claims to have spoken for “months” on the Russia, South Osettia, Georgia situation. There is no evidence of Barack Obama’s concern for this region in any statements until now. A desperate attempt to keep up with McCain …

So your plan is to support terrorist groups around the world, send_me?
That’ll make America loved…
alphie on August 13, 2008 at 1:44 AM

Were the Colonists terrorists? Were the French, Dutch, Poles and others terrorist supporters by lending the Colonists aid?
The world is not full of half all-good men and half all-evil men. It doesn’t work that way. Yes, some groups we support aren’t perfect. I’ve implied that they were. What needs attention is the fact that we can help mold and shape the smaller groups and their leaders better than we can, say, Russia. If a group relies on our support, then that support does not necessarily have to be without preconditions nor persuasion of something better.
Yes, we’ve made mistakes in this regard. Consider this though: if we’d followed through in supporting either Iran in the 1970’s or Afghanistan through completion in the 1980-90’s, then we probably wouldn’t be fighting folks of Iranian or Afghan dissent. We lost their trust.
As I say, through fear, trust, and respect, we can accomplish a lot.

Nobody fears America anymore, MB…we’re broke, exhausted and the neocons have sold out our future for their own personal gain.
Being loved is all we got.
alphie on August 13, 2008 at 2:23 AM

Why don’t people fear us? I’d argue it’s not because of a perception that we’re “broke [or] exhausted” rather than our continued pursuit of half-measures in regards to our enemies and allies alike. Sure, we’ve gotten the Georgians all fired up, but that’ll soon fade as they are slaughtered and wonder, “Gee, where is this American support?” Then their kids will grow up, probably under Russian rule, and think, “yeah, the Americans failed us then and they’re the enemy of Russia. I might as well not like them either.”
“Loved”? No. What we’re doing to Georgia is why dissidents of the world no longer trust or respect us, and why our enemies no longer fear nor respect us.

An excellent example of supertroll’s argumentative abiity. Can’t we get some intelligent foils around here? Enter juvenile riposte, stage left.

horatio on August 13, 2008 at 7:33 AM

I don’t agree with MB4 on much, but this is certainly not an example of his usual abilities. Usually, he is calm and cool, and often entertaining. I don’t recognize the MB4 we’ve been seeing the past few days, and hope to see the old one around soon.

Nobody fears America anymore, MB…we’re broke, exhausted and the neocons have sold out our future for their own personal gain.

Being loved is all we got.

alphie on August 13, 2008 at 2:23 AM

Hello Alphie,

Interesting. Based upon this comment and others you’ve made, could you expand upon your convictions by answering a few questions?

What is a “neocon”? Please don’t cut and paste some Googled definition. Just type out what you think defines a “necon”.

Who are they, where are they, and at what level within our society do they operate? (Example:corporate leaders in defense and oil industry; federal executive branch. etc)

Is HotAir a HotBed of neocons and if so why are you here conversing with the those you despise?

Should “being loved” provide the basis for all political decisions? For example, in this current crisis with Russia and Georgia, who should the president strive to have love us more?

Do you know who John Lennon is?

Lastly, how old are you and how did you come to this mind-set? (My parents; my college professors; through a life time of personal experience, liberal blogs, etc.)

Thanks in advance for your response.

If Democrats/Republicans are going to send our men and women into battle,their mission and getting back home alive

ummm, if your going to bother to send troops, their job should be to complete the mission… “staying alive” is not a mission. In fact, that is the mentality that got us where we were in Iraq before the surge… In war, Patton’s 3 principles rule supreme… Audacity, Audacity, Audacity! I always like the SAS motto “Who Dares, Wins!”
If you don’t understand that, then you are a perfect example of why politicians should a. have military service and b. stay the hell out of military decision making.
You want to save lives… defeat your enemy.

MB4 your post had such a “kos” smallness about it. Pathetic actually.
ArmyAunt on August 12, 2008 at 4:51 PM

Stand up.

Go into the bathroom.

Look in the mirror.

MB4 on August 12, 2008 at 5:01 PM

An excellent example of supertroll’s argumentative abiity. Can’t we get some intelligent foils around here? Enter juvenile riposte, stage left.

Sounds like we’re following the British model. Too bad we don’t have someone to hand the ball off too like they did.

As for Russia attacking, they ought to go after Alaska, instead of Oregon–just sayin.

Watch for Hawaii to peel off–you heard it here first. That we’re losing the SW goes without saying.

Bet you never guessed in your childhood that you’d end up witness to this portion of our history. What a kick in the teeth.

Historically, the Russians claim hegemony over everything east of Poland, all the way to Kamchatka and Siberia. There is no way, in the long run, that the Russians would allow any country to escape their sphere of influence in that region. In fact, if you remember, a couple of years ago there was a big dustup between Russia and Ukraine over natural gas supplies to Europe. The truth is, Putin is former KGB, which means he’s a Stalinist, and Stalin was a Georgian.

Hence, Putin feels Georgia is part of Russia, the way the U.S. State of Georgia is part of the USA. And he thinks of himself as much like Abe Lincoln, bringing breakaway states back into the fold.

If the Russians cannot influence and indirectly control their neighboring States, they will just invade and conquer them. This is their way of doing things. They learned this from the Mongols and the Rus Vikings (who actually gave them the name of their country). You keep what you conquer. That is the way of things there.

Actually, the Chinese learned the exact same lesson from the Mongols, and this is why both countries are suceptible to this kind of leadership. Anyone with a cursory knowledge of world history understands this. It’s a cultural thing handed down from generation to generation. Both Russia and China are lands of conquerors. The whole reason for the existence of the state is to conquer and hold land.

A country built on the ideals of freedom is anathema to them. We are polar opposites. There is, was, and never will be a reason for the United States to trust either of them. They are the greatest purveyors of tyranny in this world and yet we trade with them, coddle them, send them our money, and make nice with them in Olympic games.

Being freedom lovers, of course, it is against our better nature to do what we really should, and rid the world of these rapacious fiends. For the world to truly be at peace the warlike must be removed by warlike means. And yes, it means nukes.

Unfortunately, we’re better than that. And equally unfortunately, they are not.

Being loved is all we got.

That’ll make America loved…

alphie on August 13, 2008 at 1:44 AM

From this arises an argument: whether it is better to be loved than feared. I reply that one should like to be both one and the other; but since it is difficult to join them together, it is much safer to be feared than to be loved when one of the two must be lacking.
- Niccolo Machiavelli

That’ll make America loved…

ThackerAgency on August 12, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Send_Me on August 12, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Just my opinion,but I think this is a great example on how to discuss an issue with both sides making valid points without insults and throwing cut and paste propaganda at each other.

I won’t get in the middle of your back and forth but I would like to say that I think Thacker’s point about not sending our men and women to war if we are not going to do it to win is a great point.I would also like to see an emphasis on doing it in a way that keeps the lives of OUR Soldier’s as a priority,instead of what is going to be “politically correct”.
This does fly in the face of the Surge strategy in a way that called for our Soldier’s to hold territory and involve themselves with the population more,which of course puts them more at risk.
There is no Black and White answer,each conflict is different and requires it’s own strategy.
If Democrats/Republicans are going to send our men and women into battle,their mission and getting back home alive
should be the No.1 priority.Not using the difficulties of war as a bat to hammer the current administration and undermine the war effort.

There has not been a military conflict since WWII that has helped this country.

Vietnam/Korea were certainly handled wrong due to taking the war out of our millitary’s hands, letting politicians and the leftist influence and dictate decision making on the ground.The blood of the millions slaughtered after we left are on the super intelligent peace loving movement.
However these countries are thriving trade partners and not
communist threats like N. Korea turned out to be.
This is certainly a plus for America and others who want to be Free.

The Iraq/Afghanistan wars,though not over,have achieved freeing over 50 million people from some of the most brutal regimes in history.We have Muslims fighting side by side with the west against the Jihadist,one of the many things the left said would never happen but have.
Though not perfect,we have partners on each side of Iran, an important strategic position if Iran has to be dealt with
militarily.
The first Arab democracy in it’s infancy,but still much better then a genocidal terrorist dictator like Saddam and a
another country(Afghanistan) run by blood thirsty jihadist bent on progressing their dreams of the caliphate.

Defeating these elements has protected and secured the most vital areas that provides most of the free world their energy resources and set the stage for other neighboring countries populations to want a free and representative society that they thought never possible.
“True”Free democracies are not as likely to launch wars to take over other countries,creating chaos,death,and destruction.The chaos and destruction that Saddam and the Jihadist were engaged in toward America has been greatly diminished.
We have not been attacked on our soil and al-qeada/Taliban
have had to run back to their Pakistan stomping grounds due to their defeat in Iraq and continuing operations in Afghanistan. It is going to require taking out their training grounds in Pakistan if we want stability in Afghanistan,but the jihadist have lost a lot of credibility and recruits.
This benefits not only the US,but all of the world.

It took a long time for the benefits of WWII to be seen in
the aspect of Germany/Japan becoming contributors to the world scene instead of imperialist.Iraq/Afghanistan are no
different,it will take time to see the full benefits.

Our economic system is dependent on growth and the advancement of a free trade system.The more friends we have to trade and do business with, the better it is for every American.
I am not going to go into the safety/humanitarian aspects of taking down genocidal dictators because they are quite obvious.

Either way,this is just my opinion.Whether you agree or not,I would still like to buy you two a beer,I would probably learn a lot and have a good laugh to go along with it.

These articles are good examples of what our Soldier’s efforts have brought to America and the world:

Cheer up. We’re winning this War on Terror

Al-Qaeda and the Taleban are in retreat, the surge has worked in Iraq and Islamism is discredited. Not a bad haul

Gerard Baker
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article4221376.ece

B.C. researchers find decline in global terrorism, question previous data
1 day ago
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iJciaxCBODpiOZKXuLS73Q0gpaBA

VANCOUVER — A group of researchers from Simon Fraser University says global terrorism is on the decline, despite previous data and public perceptions that suggest otherwise.
The university’s Human Security Report Project says fatalities from terrorist attacks around the world have, in fact, decreased by 40 per cent since 2001.

While the press fawns over him and his family, distractions like the Georgian Russian conflict is just that – a distraction

Like I said, I’m surprised Obama got caught napping here.

The One is on vacation he can not be bothered with things like this .